The moment someone is polite and makes a lot of sense comes the "its my opinion" part and i don't have to prove anything 🤣. DNA and you got a lot of patience and i gotta respect that @JustWantTheRewards
The opinion argument wasn't started by me. It's a default for people who don't have any more substance than I do.
The moment someone is polite and makes a lot of sense comes the "its my opinion" part and i don't have to prove anything 🤣. DNA and you got a lot of patience and i gotta respect that @JustWantTheRewards
The opinion argument wasn't started by me. It's a default for people who don't have any more substance than I do.
Is it the games fault that people didn't push knowing that seeding was going to happen and they had to start at bronze? The answer is No, then its not the game or structured fault people have to look foward to 10 tiers of 1:1 coin system
They can progress their Accounts. They cannot progress over time within BGs enough, in combination with progressing their Accounts, in order to advance. The setup is too tight to allow it.
Again, this is 100% untrue. Anyone can progress with enough time and effort put into their account and skills. Some will do it much faster than others but just because it might take someone 8 years of playing to get to Vibranium, doesn't mean that players cannot advance.
Are you going to stay on topic, or just keep shifting arguments to personal jabs?
Its not a personal jab its a fact, you made it to Diamond, great for you!! You won't have to go thru 10 tiers next season do you? Stop playing the victim constantly. Its not the game structures fault people start at bronze for lack of interest. You tried this time good for you, now you won't start at bronze and have to go thru 10 tiers. You are the one ignoring seeding at all because you chose not to be seeded.
Wanna talk about roster growth and such of people being stuck? Did you know that smaller accounts have a chance to grow at a faster rate than bigger ones? What am i going to do to try to grow my account faster? Do chap 8.4? Oh yeah its not available.
I just dont understand how it is so hard to figure that they divided the 1:1 coin tiers equally From bronze to Plat2 and Plat1 to GC, and now seeding is active. Is it so hard to understand that the change was made to actually make seeding work?
Its a personal jab, and I'm over it. I said the 2:1 system was unsuccessful in the absence of seeding. With seeding, everyone is coming up against everyone else from the GC, and random Matches. People keep bypassing that point. By all means, keep making it about me. I'm not the one that is making their personal issues obvious.
Its a personal jab, and I'm over it. I said the 2:1 system was unsuccessful in the absence of seeding. With seeding, everyone is coming up against everyone else from the GC, and random Matches. People keep bypassing that point. By all means, keep making it about me. I'm not the one that is making their personal issues obvious.
What are you even talking about everyone?! They start at Plat1 you have to reach Plat1 to face people that got to GC.
Its a personal jab, and I'm over it. I said the 2:1 system was unsuccessful in the absence of seeding. With seeding, everyone is coming up against everyone else from the GC, and random Matches. People keep bypassing that point. By all means, keep making it about me. I'm not the one that is making their personal issues obvious.
That's not true. Only players who finished last season in the GC faced "everyone else from the GC" in Plat 1. They fought each other to get back into the GC this season. Or do you think that we're still in Plat 1?
Why are you talking about Bonze to Plat? That's not what we're even talking about, and that's 2:1 mostly. Good Lord man, you're not even trying. You're just arguing with everything I say.
Why are you talking about Bonze to Plat? That's not what we're even talking about, and that's 2:1 mostly. Good Lord man, you're not even trying. You're just arguing with everything I say.
Oh god you are so obtuse... If you start at bronze gold 3 to plat 2 is 5 tier If you start at Plat 1 by reaching GC the previous season you have 5 tiers. Its divided that way and seeding will only drop you 5 tiers next season THAT IS WHY THE COIN SYSTEM OF 1:1 IS USED. Next season you will probably start at G2 or G1 that is not 10 tiers for you of 1:1 coin system is it?
Why are you talking about Bonze to Plat? That's not what we're even talking about, and that's 2:1 mostly. Good Lord man, you're not even trying. You're just arguing with everything I say.
How on earth is bronze to plat mostly 2:1 rofl Are you sure you got out of gold at all? If its mostly 2:1 what change are you asking for?
TDLR:- Change - From Gold Tier 3 to Vibranium Tier 2 Requirement - 5 Token to progress to the next Tier, Win = + 2 Token, Lose = - 1 Token. Yep it is that simple.
...
Matching Problem:- This combine with the seeding system, it would mean the players can make a steady progress toward the level that meant to be for them. In doing so players would naturally be matched with similar account size / skills level to themselves, as bigger account or higher skill level would move through those ranking faster.
I'm not saying that every players will get to GC, but at least whatever Ranking you are end up, you would of gotten there while facing similar players to yourself, which make losing a bit easier to accept.
That may not be what you're saying, but that's what will happen. In a +2/-1 scoring system, you don't rise to the level of equal competition, you rise almost indefinitely provided you grind enough matches.
To rise to the level "meant for you" you should end up at a tier surrounded by players equally strong as you. But any tier that contains players equally strong as you would be generating matches that you would be winning about 50% of the time. But a 50% win rate with the +2/-1 scoring system is a net 1 trophy increase every two matches. Statistically speaking, that means it would take about ten matches to traverse one tier that had a five trophy requirement. You'd have to rise all the way up to a tier where you were winning only 33% of the time to stabilize. But even that's not going to happen, because any tier with that tier of players is itself unstable: they would be matching against each other at a 50% win rate and promoting upward. That tier would slowly fill over time with weaker players, which would then match against each other, and then promote.
This is why I didn't suggest +2/-1 scoring when I outlined my own suggestions for BG. +2/-1 is unworkable because it turns VT into a grind, which is explicitly something Kabam does not want to do. As a competitive ladder, the point is for everyone to progress as far as their performance can take them relative to all other competitors. In other words, everyone of similar strength should rise to about the same level, assuming they put in similar levels of effort. Even my own suggestion of +2/+1/0/-1 has a slight upward bias, but it at least provides for downward pressure if you rise to a level where you are clearly overmatched: you'd still reach an equilibrium tier unless you could consistently get 2-0 matches. But even that small bias was enough to make Kabam uncomfortable with the idea.
You're not guaranteeing to go up when you play enough Matches when the competition you're coming up against varies so greatly in strength. When you have all of the GC in Plat and up, that's quite a range. It's not as if Players are being handed byes. The other side-effect is the toughest will actually advance faster, and they won't be able to hang out in the VT for easy Wins. That's certainly not a side-effect I'm uncomfortable with.
Proven more harm than good, with the absence of seeding. That's what you're ignoring.
That's just incorrect. It's been proven countless times to be more good than harm. It's a system designed with the express intention of the letting the system decide what's fair. Not the developers, not the players, the system itself says that this is fair. And your argument is that it's more harm than good, but you're refusing to reference the sources I gave you. Teams of people wrote breakdowns on why the system is designed this way.
Let's break this down:
It's just undeniable that players maintaining a 50% win rate are average in their league. That means they're winning against the bottom half and losing against the top half.
So, in simplest terms, 50% = average, less than 50% = below average, greater than 50% = above average.
In a +2/-1 system, the most average player will progress to the next tier simply by maintaining a 50% win rate for 10 games or by maintaining a 100% win rate for 3, then a 0% win rate for 3, averaging at 50%.
So let's say Timmy, a player in Vib 3 with a 50% win rate and a 1.4 mil account, wins 3 in a row due to being matched with the bottom 20% of Vib 3. This progresses Timmy to Vib 2 due to the +2/-1 system with a 5 coin requirement. Now, the most average player in Vib 2 has a 50% win rate and a 2 million account. Timmy's win rate drops to 35% due to being outmatched in this new league.
Timmy then makes forum post after forum post complaining about matchmaking. He can't complete objectives because he's losing 75% of his fights and he keeps matching with 1.8 mil-2.2 million rating accounts. Now, since Timmy has an underdeveloped roster and takes up spots at the bottom 35% of Vib 2, a player with a 40% win rate can beat him in order to progress to Vib 1.
Under leveled accounts would be invading the higher levels, completely throwing off win rates, giving easy wins to the players who previously would've had a 50% win rate, but now have a 65% win rate due to players like Timmy feeding them wins. Timmy's situation would be happening to hundreds, if not thousands of players.
Proven more harm than good, with the absence of seeding. That's what you're ignoring.
That's just incorrect. It's been proven countless times to be more good than harm. It's a system designed with the express intention of the letting the system decide what's fair. Not the developers, not the players, the system itself says that this is fair. And your argument is that it's more harm than good, but you're refusing to reference the sources I gave you. Teams of people wrote breakdowns on why the system is designed this way.
Let's break this down:
It's just undeniable that players maintaining a 50% win rate are average in their league. That means they're winning against the bottom half and losing against the top half.
So, in simplest terms, 50% = average, less than 50% = below average, greater than 50% = above average.
In a +2/-1 system, the most average player will progress to the next tier simply by maintaining a 50% win rate for 10 games or by maintaining a 100% win rate for 3, then a 0% win rate for 3, averaging at 50%.
So let's say Timmy, a player in Vib 3 with a 50% win rate and a 1.4 mil account, wins 3 in a row due to being matched with the bottom 20% of Vib 3. This progresses Timmy to Vib 2 due to the +2/-1 system with a 5 coin requirement. Now, the most average player in Vib 2 has a 50% win rate and a 2 million account. Timmy's win rate drops to 35% due to being outmatched in this new league.
Timmy then makes forum post after forum post complaining about matchmaking. He can't complete objectives because he's losing 75% of his fights and he keeps matching with 1.8 mil-2.2 million rating accounts. Now, since Timmy has an underdeveloped roster and takes up spots at the bottom 35% of Vib 2, a player with a 40% win rate can beat him in order to progress to Vib 1.
Under leveled accounts would be invading the higher levels, completely throwing off win rates, giving easy wins to the players who previously would've had a 50% win rate, but now have a 65% win rate due to players like Timmy feeding them wins. Timmy's situation would be happening to hundreds, if not thousands of players.
It doesn't work.
That's literally what we have now. The lowest Players are being fed to the wolves at Plat and up, being tossed around for Tanking, and told to Git Gud because it's a competition. Meanwhile, they're not only required to overcome the wolves to advance, they need 10 Tiers of consecutive Wins to get out of the VT. 10 Tiers of going up, down, up, down, up, up, down, up, down, down, etc. How long do you think it will last before people get tired of making little to no progress and being told to suck it up? I'll give you a hint. About as long as you would endure the same thing.
Proven more harm than good, with the absence of seeding. That's what you're ignoring.
That's just incorrect. It's been proven countless times to be more good than harm. It's a system designed with the express intention of the letting the system decide what's fair. Not the developers, not the players, the system itself says that this is fair. And your argument is that it's more harm than good, but you're refusing to reference the sources I gave you. Teams of people wrote breakdowns on why the system is designed this way.
Let's break this down:
It's just undeniable that players maintaining a 50% win rate are average in their league. That means they're winning against the bottom half and losing against the top half.
So, in simplest terms, 50% = average, less than 50% = below average, greater than 50% = above average.
In a +2/-1 system, the most average player will progress to the next tier simply by maintaining a 50% win rate for 10 games or by maintaining a 100% win rate for 3, then a 0% win rate for 3, averaging at 50%.
So let's say Timmy, a player in Vib 3 with a 50% win rate and a 1.4 mil account, wins 3 in a row due to being matched with the bottom 20% of Vib 3. This progresses Timmy to Vib 2 due to the +2/-1 system with a 5 coin requirement. Now, the most average player in Vib 2 has a 50% win rate and a 2 million account. Timmy's win rate drops to 35% due to being outmatched in this new league.
Timmy then makes forum post after forum post complaining about matchmaking. He can't complete objectives because he's losing 75% of his fights and he keeps matching with 1.8 mil-2.2 million rating accounts. Now, since Timmy has an underdeveloped roster and takes up spots at the bottom 35% of Vib 2, a player with a 40% win rate can beat him in order to progress to Vib 1.
Under leveled accounts would be invading the higher levels, completely throwing off win rates, giving easy wins to the players who previously would've had a 50% win rate, but now have a 65% win rate due to players like Timmy feeding them wins. Timmy's situation would be happening to hundreds, if not thousands of players.
It doesn't work.
That's literally what we have now.
Then you should be asking for the VT to be harder.
TDLR:- Change - From Gold Tier 3 to Vibranium Tier 2 Requirement - 5 Token to progress to the next Tier, Win = + 2 Token, Lose = - 1 Token. Yep it is that simple.
...
Matching Problem:- This combine with the seeding system, it would mean the players can make a steady progress toward the level that meant to be for them. In doing so players would naturally be matched with similar account size / skills level to themselves, as bigger account or higher skill level would move through those ranking faster.
I'm not saying that every players will get to GC, but at least whatever Ranking you are end up, you would of gotten there while facing similar players to yourself, which make losing a bit easier to accept.
That may not be what you're saying, but that's what will happen. In a +2/-1 scoring system, you don't rise to the level of equal competition, you rise almost indefinitely provided you grind enough matches.
To rise to the level "meant for you" you should end up at a tier surrounded by players equally strong as you. But any tier that contains players equally strong as you would be generating matches that you would be winning about 50% of the time. But a 50% win rate with the +2/-1 scoring system is a net 1 trophy increase every two matches. Statistically speaking, that means it would take about ten matches to traverse one tier that had a five trophy requirement. You'd have to rise all the way up to a tier where you were winning only 33% of the time to stabilize. But even that's not going to happen, because any tier with that tier of players is itself unstable: they would be matching against each other at a 50% win rate and promoting upward. That tier would slowly fill over time with weaker players, which would then match against each other, and then promote.
This is why I didn't suggest +2/-1 scoring when I outlined my own suggestions for BG. +2/-1 is unworkable because it turns VT into a grind, which is explicitly something Kabam does not want to do. As a competitive ladder, the point is for everyone to progress as far as their performance can take them relative to all other competitors. In other words, everyone of similar strength should rise to about the same level, assuming they put in similar levels of effort. Even my own suggestion of +2/+1/0/-1 has a slight upward bias, but it at least provides for downward pressure if you rise to a level where you are clearly overmatched: you'd still reach an equilibrium tier unless you could consistently get 2-0 matches. But even that small bias was enough to make Kabam uncomfortable with the idea.
I'm definitely not a mathematician like yourself and always interest on your input.
However with the current setting, speaking for myself and from the amount of threads made on this matter, I would assume a numbers of players. The recent change to BG the game is very grinding and demotivating.
For instance, I'm currently in V3, I just play 7 matches, won 4, lost 3. So by the end of maybe over an hour I got 1 more token than I had before. Now this would be fine, I'm in V3 for about 5 days now, so I would be fine accepting then V3 might be where I meant to be (which is fair enough).
However even today (which is about midway through the season), I still got match up with players that is over double the size of my account (and from my example in my first post an account 4 times bigger). They are great players and very big roster (similar size to the C Tier players), now if the system is working as it should, shouldn't these players be in a higher Tier than me by now, and I would be facing much more similar players to myself?
I just feel that is the system is working correctly, then like you say, players would naturally fall into their right Tier and would be playing against players at the same skill level and/or account size, but that is not happening.
So if the system right now isn't working properly, and based on your feedback that my idea would work in theory but may not by in practice. What would your thought be on how to better improve the BG Mode?
Proven more harm than good, with the absence of seeding. That's what you're ignoring.
That's just incorrect. It's been proven countless times to be more good than harm. It's a system designed with the express intention of the letting the system decide what's fair. Not the developers, not the players, the system itself says that this is fair. And your argument is that it's more harm than good, but you're refusing to reference the sources I gave you. Teams of people wrote breakdowns on why the system is designed this way.
Let's break this down:
It's just undeniable that players maintaining a 50% win rate are average in their league. That means they're winning against the bottom half and losing against the top half.
So, in simplest terms, 50% = average, less than 50% = below average, greater than 50% = above average.
In a +2/-1 system, the most average player will progress to the next tier simply by maintaining a 50% win rate for 10 games or by maintaining a 100% win rate for 3, then a 0% win rate for 3, averaging at 50%.
So let's say Timmy, a player in Vib 3 with a 50% win rate and a 1.4 mil account, wins 3 in a row due to being matched with the bottom 20% of Vib 3. This progresses Timmy to Vib 2 due to the +2/-1 system with a 5 coin requirement. Now, the most average player in Vib 2 has a 50% win rate and a 2 million account. Timmy's win rate drops to 35% due to being outmatched in this new league.
Timmy then makes forum post after forum post complaining about matchmaking. He can't complete objectives because he's losing 75% of his fights and he keeps matching with 1.8 mil-2.2 million rating accounts. Now, since Timmy has an underdeveloped roster and takes up spots at the bottom 35% of Vib 2, a player with a 40% win rate can beat him in order to progress to Vib 1.
Under leveled accounts would be invading the higher levels, completely throwing off win rates, giving easy wins to the players who previously would've had a 50% win rate, but now have a 65% win rate due to players like Timmy feeding them wins. Timmy's situation would be happening to hundreds, if not thousands of players.
It doesn't work.
That's literally what we have now.
Then you should be asking for the VT to be harder.
Right. Tell you what. Let's make BGs a total gauntlet. No one below Paragon, and race for pinks. You lose, you lose your Roster. Ridiculous. People are so afraid to let anyone else have a modicum of success that they'd rather let the whole game burn.
Under leveled accounts would be invading the higher levels, completely throwing off win rates, giving easy wins to the players who previously would've had a 50% win rate, but now have a 65% win rate due to players like Timmy feeding them wins. Timmy's situation would be happening to hundreds, if not thousands of players.
It doesn't work.
It is worse than that. With conventional scoring, +1/-1, the total number of trophies added to the ladder is zero. This doesn't happen when someone is at the bottom of a tier in VT, but let's set that aside for now. Even ignoring that, with +2/-1 scoring every match adds at least one trophy to the ladder somewhere. Someone loses one, someone else gains two, so overall the players as a group have gained one trophy. This is true for any subset of players that match against each other, like say a tier - Vibranium 2, Diamond 1, Platinum 3.
Mathematically speaking, if every match adds a trophy to those players, someone eventually has to promote. The trophies have to go somewhere, and there's no other source for trophy losses. So the problem isn't that one particular player enters a tier that is stronger than their own strength, it is that *all* tiers become unstable. If everyone plays enough matches, then eventually *everyone* promotes. Even the weakest players in a tier must promote eventually, because it is mathematically impossible for them to not promote. The trophies must go somewhere, and eventually when there's nowhere else for them to go they will go to them.
That is what +2/-1 scoring is doing to the lower tiers. Eventually *everyone* promotes if they just play enough matches, and that's deliberate. The lower VT is designed to reward participation. You still have to win, but the mechanics of match making make wins eventually inevitable. If this were to continue all the way to GC, then eventually everyone would get into GC. Of course, not literally everyone because some players simply won't play enough matches. But a blind player using their assistance dog to tap the screen will get into GC if they simply play enough matches, because eventually no matter what tier they are in they will become the last recipient of those excess trophies, unless they are literally the last person in VT and have no one left to match against.
To put it another play, even with +2/-1 scoring the players in V2 should be strong enough to stop a weak player from getting all the way up to GC. But those players won't be in V2, because they will quickly promote to V1 and then enter GC with +2/-1 scoring, because there's no one in VT strong enough to stop them. And the same will happen to V3, D1, D2, D3, D4, all the way down to Platinum 3. With +1/-1 scoring, someone as strong as you could stop you from promoting. With +2/-1 scoring anyone strong enough to stop you is also strong enough to promote away from you, and won't be around to stop you.
I'm definitely not a mathematician like yourself and always interest on your input.
However with the current setting, speaking for myself and from the amount of threads made on this matter, I would assume a numbers of players. The recent change to BG the game is very grinding and demotivating.
First, let's keep in mind the "recent change" was itself a modification to the change that introduced the +2/-1 scoring in the first place. It is a tweak to that prior change. It didn't make BG more grindy, it was part of the change intended to make BG less grindy overall.
Second, as I've stated elsewhere, its supposed to be grindy and demotivating in at least one sense. BG allows players to play as many matches as they want. There should be some reward for that, but playing more matches should not have a very strong influence on where you eventually end up in VT or GC. You should rise to about your competitive level. Once you reach your competitive level, the only way to go higher should be to get stronger, not to simply do more matches. So anyone who attempts to climb beyond their intrinsic strength by simply doing a ton of matches should not be rewarded much for that. That's intentional, and that's never going away. If Kabam changed BG in some unspecified way to allow players to guarantee progress if they just put in enough effort, BG would become another arena. They very explicitly do not want to do that, and will likely rather see the mode die than do that.
In other words, it is grindy because players insist on grinding it, not because it is intrinsically grindy. Neither the game mode nor the devs *want* players to play a hundred matches desperately hoping to get lucky. You can, if you *want* to, but if you don't want to, you shouldn't. You should accept that you may not be strong enough to advance any higher.
However, there's a huge caveat to that. The VT tiers are not pre-populated with certain kinds of strength players. That's what they look like, more or less, at the end of the season. But at the start of the season, even with seeding, players reset to lower tiers. And during that initial scramble, you can find all sorts of players of different strengths in different tiers. At the end of a season P1 might be dominated by mid tier Cavs, say, but at the start of the season there's going to be everything from strong UCs to monster Paragons in there, all racing back to the top. If you decide to jump in and start grinding out matches on day one, the odds are you will get squished by a giant account who won't even notice you while they are stepping over you to get to Vibranium.
So while the game mode is itself designed to explicitly *not* reward players for grinding - you grind, you won't get much past some point, and more grinding will simply net you little to nothing for your trouble - precisely how much you play and when you play matters. BG doesn't reward grinding, but it does reward patience and pacing.
Anecdote: I used to push right out of the gate. In season seven I spent over a hundred matches to get to Platinum, with an average win rate of between 35% and 40%. In the past two seasons I have been using a very calculated pace to slowly do matches over time. I reached V3 from Bronze 3 in just 67 matches with a 74% win rate last season. I reached D1 from P1 in 27 matches this season with a win percentage of 70%. It is not like I got twice as good in two seasons. The only difference between grinding a hundred matches and crawling through VT, and breezing through VT with a 70% win rate, is pace. I do fewer matches, I do not press when I am in a tier where I feel I am starting to lose, and over time matches in every tier get easier. Time is on my side.
What would your thought be on how to better improve the BG Mode?
So what are my thoughts on improving the mode? I have a few, but in terms of improving the player experience I think the single biggest problem affecting a large percentage of players experiencing issues is something under their control. They are trying to push, and the mode is pushing back. MCOC may be a fighting game, but BG is not boxing, it is surfing.
Comments
Stop playing the victim constantly. Its not the game structures fault people start at bronze for lack of interest. You tried this time good for you, now you won't start at bronze and have to go thru 10 tiers. You are the one ignoring seeding at all because you chose not to be seeded.
Did you know that smaller accounts have a chance to grow at a faster rate than bigger ones?
What am i going to do to try to grow my account faster? Do chap 8.4? Oh yeah its not available.
From bronze to Plat2 and Plat1 to GC, and now seeding is active.
Is it so hard to understand that the change was made to actually make seeding work?
I said the 2:1 system was unsuccessful in the absence of seeding.
With seeding, everyone is coming up against everyone else from the GC, and random Matches.
People keep bypassing that point. By all means, keep making it about me. I'm not the one that is making their personal issues obvious.
They start at Plat1 you have to reach Plat1 to face people that got to GC.
Good Lord man, you're not even trying. You're just arguing with everything I say.
If you start at bronze gold 3 to plat 2 is 5 tier
If you start at Plat 1 by reaching GC the previous season you have 5 tiers.
Its divided that way and seeding will only drop you 5 tiers next season THAT IS WHY THE COIN SYSTEM OF 1:1 IS USED.
Next season you will probably start at G2 or G1 that is not 10 tiers for you of 1:1 coin system is it?
Are you sure you got out of gold at all?
If its mostly 2:1 what change are you asking for?
To rise to the level "meant for you" you should end up at a tier surrounded by players equally strong as you. But any tier that contains players equally strong as you would be generating matches that you would be winning about 50% of the time. But a 50% win rate with the +2/-1 scoring system is a net 1 trophy increase every two matches. Statistically speaking, that means it would take about ten matches to traverse one tier that had a five trophy requirement. You'd have to rise all the way up to a tier where you were winning only 33% of the time to stabilize. But even that's not going to happen, because any tier with that tier of players is itself unstable: they would be matching against each other at a 50% win rate and promoting upward. That tier would slowly fill over time with weaker players, which would then match against each other, and then promote.
This is why I didn't suggest +2/-1 scoring when I outlined my own suggestions for BG. +2/-1 is unworkable because it turns VT into a grind, which is explicitly something Kabam does not want to do. As a competitive ladder, the point is for everyone to progress as far as their performance can take them relative to all other competitors. In other words, everyone of similar strength should rise to about the same level, assuming they put in similar levels of effort. Even my own suggestion of +2/+1/0/-1 has a slight upward bias, but it at least provides for downward pressure if you rise to a level where you are clearly overmatched: you'd still reach an equilibrium tier unless you could consistently get 2-0 matches. But even that small bias was enough to make Kabam uncomfortable with the idea.
The other side-effect is the toughest will actually advance faster, and they won't be able to hang out in the VT for easy Wins. That's certainly not a side-effect I'm uncomfortable with.
Let's break this down:
It's just undeniable that players maintaining a 50% win rate are average in their league. That means they're winning against the bottom half and losing against the top half.
So, in simplest terms, 50% = average, less than 50% = below average, greater than 50% = above average.
In a +2/-1 system, the most average player will progress to the next tier simply by maintaining a 50% win rate for 10 games or by maintaining a 100% win rate for 3, then a 0% win rate for 3, averaging at 50%.
So let's say Timmy, a player in Vib 3 with a 50% win rate and a 1.4 mil account, wins 3 in a row due to being matched with the bottom 20% of Vib 3. This progresses Timmy to Vib 2 due to the +2/-1 system with a 5 coin requirement. Now, the most average player in Vib 2 has a 50% win rate and a 2 million account. Timmy's win rate drops to 35% due to being outmatched in this new league.
Timmy then makes forum post after forum post complaining about matchmaking. He can't complete objectives because he's losing 75% of his fights and he keeps matching with 1.8 mil-2.2 million rating accounts. Now, since Timmy has an underdeveloped roster and takes up spots at the bottom 35% of Vib 2, a player with a 40% win rate can beat him in order to progress to Vib 1.
Under leveled accounts would be invading the higher levels, completely throwing off win rates, giving easy wins to the players who previously would've had a 50% win rate, but now have a 65% win rate due to players like Timmy feeding them wins. Timmy's situation would be happening to hundreds, if not thousands of players.
It doesn't work.
Meanwhile, they're not only required to overcome the wolves to advance, they need 10 Tiers of consecutive Wins to get out of the VT. 10 Tiers of going up, down, up, down, up, up, down, up, down, down, etc.
How long do you think it will last before people get tired of making little to no progress and being told to suck it up? I'll give you a hint. About as long as you would endure the same thing.
I'm definitely not a mathematician like yourself and always interest on your input.
However with the current setting, speaking for myself and from the amount of threads made on this matter, I would assume a numbers of players. The recent change to BG the game is very grinding and demotivating.
For instance, I'm currently in V3, I just play 7 matches, won 4, lost 3. So by the end of maybe over an hour I got 1 more token than I had before. Now this would be fine, I'm in V3 for about 5 days now, so I would be fine accepting then V3 might be where I meant to be (which is fair enough).
However even today (which is about midway through the season), I still got match up with players that is over double the size of my account (and from my example in my first post an account 4 times bigger). They are great players and very big roster (similar size to the C Tier players), now if the system is working as it should, shouldn't these players be in a higher Tier than me by now, and I would be facing much more similar players to myself?
I just feel that is the system is working correctly, then like you say, players would naturally fall into their right Tier and would be playing against players at the same skill level and/or account size, but that is not happening.
So if the system right now isn't working properly, and based on your feedback that my idea would work in theory but may not by in practice. What would your thought be on how to better improve the BG Mode?
Ridiculous. People are so afraid to let anyone else have a modicum of success that they'd rather let the whole game burn.
Mathematically speaking, if every match adds a trophy to those players, someone eventually has to promote. The trophies have to go somewhere, and there's no other source for trophy losses. So the problem isn't that one particular player enters a tier that is stronger than their own strength, it is that *all* tiers become unstable. If everyone plays enough matches, then eventually *everyone* promotes. Even the weakest players in a tier must promote eventually, because it is mathematically impossible for them to not promote. The trophies must go somewhere, and eventually when there's nowhere else for them to go they will go to them.
That is what +2/-1 scoring is doing to the lower tiers. Eventually *everyone* promotes if they just play enough matches, and that's deliberate. The lower VT is designed to reward participation. You still have to win, but the mechanics of match making make wins eventually inevitable. If this were to continue all the way to GC, then eventually everyone would get into GC. Of course, not literally everyone because some players simply won't play enough matches. But a blind player using their assistance dog to tap the screen will get into GC if they simply play enough matches, because eventually no matter what tier they are in they will become the last recipient of those excess trophies, unless they are literally the last person in VT and have no one left to match against.
To put it another play, even with +2/-1 scoring the players in V2 should be strong enough to stop a weak player from getting all the way up to GC. But those players won't be in V2, because they will quickly promote to V1 and then enter GC with +2/-1 scoring, because there's no one in VT strong enough to stop them. And the same will happen to V3, D1, D2, D3, D4, all the way down to Platinum 3. With +1/-1 scoring, someone as strong as you could stop you from promoting. With +2/-1 scoring anyone strong enough to stop you is also strong enough to promote away from you, and won't be around to stop you.
2 coin 1 coin... now its people camping and farming...next people with alts that have much better skils..
Second, as I've stated elsewhere, its supposed to be grindy and demotivating in at least one sense. BG allows players to play as many matches as they want. There should be some reward for that, but playing more matches should not have a very strong influence on where you eventually end up in VT or GC. You should rise to about your competitive level. Once you reach your competitive level, the only way to go higher should be to get stronger, not to simply do more matches. So anyone who attempts to climb beyond their intrinsic strength by simply doing a ton of matches should not be rewarded much for that. That's intentional, and that's never going away. If Kabam changed BG in some unspecified way to allow players to guarantee progress if they just put in enough effort, BG would become another arena. They very explicitly do not want to do that, and will likely rather see the mode die than do that.
In other words, it is grindy because players insist on grinding it, not because it is intrinsically grindy. Neither the game mode nor the devs *want* players to play a hundred matches desperately hoping to get lucky. You can, if you *want* to, but if you don't want to, you shouldn't. You should accept that you may not be strong enough to advance any higher.
However, there's a huge caveat to that. The VT tiers are not pre-populated with certain kinds of strength players. That's what they look like, more or less, at the end of the season. But at the start of the season, even with seeding, players reset to lower tiers. And during that initial scramble, you can find all sorts of players of different strengths in different tiers. At the end of a season P1 might be dominated by mid tier Cavs, say, but at the start of the season there's going to be everything from strong UCs to monster Paragons in there, all racing back to the top. If you decide to jump in and start grinding out matches on day one, the odds are you will get squished by a giant account who won't even notice you while they are stepping over you to get to Vibranium.
So while the game mode is itself designed to explicitly *not* reward players for grinding - you grind, you won't get much past some point, and more grinding will simply net you little to nothing for your trouble - precisely how much you play and when you play matters. BG doesn't reward grinding, but it does reward patience and pacing.
Anecdote: I used to push right out of the gate. In season seven I spent over a hundred matches to get to Platinum, with an average win rate of between 35% and 40%. In the past two seasons I have been using a very calculated pace to slowly do matches over time. I reached V3 from Bronze 3 in just 67 matches with a 74% win rate last season. I reached D1 from P1 in 27 matches this season with a win percentage of 70%. It is not like I got twice as good in two seasons. The only difference between grinding a hundred matches and crawling through VT, and breezing through VT with a 70% win rate, is pace. I do fewer matches, I do not press when I am in a tier where I feel I am starting to lose, and over time matches in every tier get easier. Time is on my side. So what are my thoughts on improving the mode? I have a few, but in terms of improving the player experience I think the single biggest problem affecting a large percentage of players experiencing issues is something under their control. They are trying to push, and the mode is pushing back. MCOC may be a fighting game, but BG is not boxing, it is surfing.