@GroundedWisdom I used to be on the side of the KO thing and getting bonus points. When you start breaking it down, it's not what is intended for the game mode. In the current meta, if you're not getting 47-51k in a round, you're usually not going to win.
The game points are set up in a way that levels the playing field a bit. That's a big pro-player move for a majority of the base. Just look at the complaints in the metas where nukes reign. There are a ton of threads covering those situations.
Maybe the compromise would be level of health remaining. If a threshold isn't met, then you lose the fight if the other player KO'd someone? Honestly, I'm okay with the current system. It's fair when both play well.
It's absolutely fair. You want a chance to win, take down the Champ.
It's absolutely not fair. There's too many variables in nodes that it would create haves vs have nots situations that would cause major uproar. The system is pretty fair now. It allows smaller rosters to actually compete. A 5* r5 has a chance vs a 7* r1 with skill.
If you lose due to low HP points you are pretty much brute forcing the KO due to poor perfomance.
Or, you fought someone who could only get your defender down to 50% health and then paused the game while you played until the end to actually KO your opponent.
KO’s should be the #1 factor, period.
That only brings me 30K points if I have 100% health remaining. If opponent KOed my defender they get straight 30k + time remaining+whatever health they have. They win I lose for not fighting. I need to bring them close to 0% with 90%+ health remaining for me get enough points.
The point is you can pause and win without KO while your opponent can KO and lose.
You can call it sloppy all you want, but if there was no K.O. on the other side, there's no room to criticize. It's Contest of Champions. Not Dancing with the Stars.
Again you act as if the other person just danced around not doing any dmg, when he actually did enough damage to beat your sloppy KO. And you are right its Marvel Contest of Champions, not Contest of Sloppy KOs, not taking damage matters.
Not really. Not when one side actually succeeds at the point of the Fight. To K.O. the opponent.
You can call it sloppy all you want, but if there was no K.O. on the other side, there's no room to criticize. It's Contest of Champions. Not Dancing with the Stars.
I probably missed but did you post a screen shot of the match you lost after KO’ing opponent? It may help if we can see if you would have won with the old system.
No, I didn't. I don't need help counting.
Welp! I tried to help. But if you just want to make snide remarks, good luck with your crusade.
There really isnt much point to argue with someone who hasn't adjusted his playstyle in 3 seasons (4 months at least) and thinks taking damage is not relevant as long as you manage a faster KO.
You can call it sloppy all you want, but if there was no K.O. on the other side, there's no room to criticize. It's Contest of Champions. Not Dancing with the Stars.
Again you act as if the other person just danced around not doing any dmg, when he actually did enough damage to beat your sloppy KO. And you are right its Marvel Contest of Champions, not Contest of Sloppy KOs, not taking damage matters.
Not really. Not when one side actually succeeds at the point of the Fight. To K.O. the opponent.
You can call it sloppy all you want, but if there was no K.O. on the other side, there's no room to criticize. It's Contest of Champions. Not Dancing with the Stars.
I probably missed but did you post a screen shot of the match you lost after KO’ing opponent? It may help if we can see if you would have won with the old system.
No, I didn't. I don't need help counting.
Welp! I tried to help. But if you just want to make snide remarks, good luck with your crusade.
You offered to analyze my ss to see if I really would have won. I made that mistake once. It's a bit condescending to offer that.
@GroundedWisdom I used to be on the side of the KO thing and getting bonus points. When you start breaking it down, it's not what is intended for the game mode. In the current meta, if you're not getting 47-51k in a round, you're usually not going to win.
The game points are set up in a way that levels the playing field a bit. That's a big pro-player move for a majority of the base. Just look at the complaints in the metas where nukes reign. There are a ton of threads covering those situations.
Maybe the compromise would be level of health remaining. If a threshold isn't met, then you lose the fight if the other player KO'd someone? Honestly, I'm okay with the current system. It's fair when both play well.
I would prefer if the Points were returned to full Time Bonus to be honest. You could still K.O. your side and lose, but you would have to be pretty bad. The current setup is just a tight mess.
Hey Kabam do the guy a favor give him what he wants, I'm pretty sure skilled players can be wreckless too and nuke him real fast, then he can realize that Taking damage is not a playstyle and be stuck even more
The allocation and amount of Points is what I'm debating here. If you're interested in having an actual conversation, then we can engage. If not, I'm not wasting my time.
Too much back and forth over same points to read the last 100+ posts,
I kind of agree with both sides.
Simple solution (apologies if someone already suggested this) would be to keep scoring the same but give some bonus points for the KO.
They’d have do some calculations to work out the most sensible number of bonus points.
That's basically like going back to more points for time left, the point system we had previously, devaluing the other two factors that contribute points, remaining attacker health and damage done to the defender. Back to nuke. Some people fail to see, that the is already a KO bonus, and it's not a fixed number, it's proportional to the seconds some needed to KO his opponent, and it's called: TIME BONUS Maybe Kabam should rename it to KO BONUS, to make more clear for those people to understand 🙂
The allocation and amount of Points is what I'm debating here. If you're interested in having an actual conversation, then we can engage. If not, I'm not wasting my time.
If I recall in past battle realm brawls, this choice was explained.
Kabam wanted people to not just smash opponent and ignore getting hit in the face. So they tried to balance the ko points from the time and the your hp and opponent hp remaining also, to make it matter if you played skilfully as well as quickly.
I think it’s simply down to how they want the game mode to run. It’s their choice if they want people to focus on different factors.
So Yes, of course if kabam wants you to ko your opponent in a game mode, that is the main factor, regardless of hp. This is the case in aq, aw, event quest. You can get the ko, then heal up if you want and move on. There’s no factor for hp remaining , unless of course you ko yourself in war,then it comes into play.
Battlegrounds they decided that time and hp are also a factor and placed a points value on what they decide is important in the game mode. And as the game mode relies on points, the users of the game mode should try and get the most points.
If you look back at past summoners brawls (which I guess they base their bg on) They used to have it so that you got the most points for the fastest ko. That’s it. Fastest ko wins regardless of hp.
So indeed, someone would ko opponent and end fight on 5% hp within 50s and get the win against someone who ko opponent who ended fight on 95% hp who took it down in 51 sec.
If they didn’t ko , it was down to who got the most dmg during the time. And then I think if I recall correctly, only if they had tied with dmg, they would compare hp remaining,
So the priority was
1) ko fastest time 2) dmg if not ko 3) hp if dmg tied
So it’s already been done that way. And kabam has simply evolved it and decided they want to encourage attack and defence, not just attack.
So now it’s:
Ko - time - hp ….. all with a level of importance that kabam decided.
So the game mode is no longer saying ko is the only factor.
It’s now a balance between ko, time and hp. All we can do is ensure we have the most points for the win, by taking the opponent down as quickly and skilfully (without taking dmg) as possible.
Of course the main basic aim of any base combat game is to ko the opponent. But it’s the same as any game. If the game makers want to add extra ideas and features into it, then they can. It’s their choice. And that’s all bg is.
Imagine playing street fighter or tekken, what mode do you want to play dictates how you play. They all have the basic base”ko opponent”, but they also have added extra requirements, otherwise it’s all be the same game mode.
Solo
Classic combat infinite time - ko opponent Classic combat timed - ko opponent. If no ko, you lose. Survival - ko as many as you can without koing yourself . So here , hp is important to survive the next round. Timed - ko opponent as fast as possible (hp doesn’t matter)
Vs mode Classic combat - ko opponent ( infinite time) Classic combat time limited - ko opponent, if no ko, whoever has highest hp wins. If same go, then it’s a draw.
For bgs, ko is still given the most points - 30k. Hp the second -15k Time the least - 10k
So looking at that, it’s pretty clear. Ko is still the main factor with combined 40k. But to ensure you have the best chance to win as it’s points based,, ko them as carefully as possible. And as quickly as possible. In that order.
Balance of attack (ko and time) and defence (your hp).
Ko with max hp and decent time (54k) Almost ko with max hp (44k) Ko fast but lost almost all hp (41k)
Given they’ve evolved this from previous iterations and looking back at them all and considering what felt more fair, I think it’s a decent balance as it is, giving weight to attack, defence and speed of ko.
I'm sorry, but I disagree that it's balanced, and I've been playing since before the change. The scoring is not right. There have been a number of iterations, sure. There was also feedback that went into it from Players who represent the CCP, but they don't represent all Players. I don't mean to be disrespectful in saying that. I appreciate their efforts. That doesn't mean their thoughts apply to other Players as a whole. There are more forms of skill than just going back and forth for 2 minutes and winning by a small margin. Which is tight to begin with, when you have relatively even abilities. That's all well and fine for a Tournament, but that shouldn't apply to an ongoing PVP competition that encompasses a number of Players. Hell, if they wanted to apply that scoring to the GC alone and have the old in the VT, even that would be more reasonable. You have an entire competition now playing by Vegas Rules. It still needs tweaking in my opinion.
At the risk of fervent opposition, I'd like to talk about a couple of pain points still bothering me about BGs.
The first is the scoring. I understand that people consider it more skillful to have less Health taken, but I've lost a number of Matches to Players who never took down the Champs. This is nonsensical to me. There should be no competition that decentivizes taking down the opponent. That's the entire point of the Fight. The rest is secondary. I'm sorry for those who disagree, but there is no way that someone should lose and be the party who actually K.O.'d their Match. The second is the A.I. A bit redundant to discuss because I understand they have plans for looking at it, but it's absolutely different in BGs than any other part of the game. It's insane. I think one of the key areas to look at is in the game mode because it's on overdrive. I've seen some knee-jerk reacting there. I've even had dances with it. (Back-and-forth, jerk jerk.) I'm all for having a challenge, but it's beyond even caring about the strength of the opponent anymore because I go into a Match wondering if the A.I. is going to thunderclap me. Seeding is the last. It's somewhat helpful overall, but it's still a painful grind every Season. You start out among the entire GC, and unless you're among the most success in the game mode, you eke by with trying to string enough momentum together to advance. Again, that's a part of the competition, but to this extent is demotivating. Loss after Loss, with the occasional Win. You get one Win away from advancing, then you lose more. This should be a rarity. Not the entirety of the competition. These are just a few things bothering me that I'd like to discuss. I'm sure some responses will say get used to it, or deal, and for the record I'm dealing. I'm still playing. That doesn't mean I can't discuss my thoughts on where to improve. I enjoy the game mode, but it's becoming way more stress than anything, and I'd hate to see it continue.
I’m just speaking on my own experience but with Bgs recently and as someone with a bad deck of champions (average rank of 6*s are 1-2) I feel like it is unfair to throw me into a deck with 10 7*s and multiple ascended 6*s
I'm sorry, but I disagree that it's balanced, and I've been playing since before the change. The scoring is not right. There have been a number of iterations, sure. There was also feedback that went into it from Players who represent the CCP, but they don't represent all Players. I don't mean to be disrespectful in saying that. I appreciate their efforts. That doesn't mean their thoughts apply to other Players as a whole. There are more forms of skill than just going back and forth for 2 minutes and winning by a small margin. Which is tight to begin with, when you have relatively even abilities. That's all well and fine for a Tournament, but that shouldn't apply to an ongoing PVP competition that encompasses a number of Players. Hell, if they wanted to apply that scoring to the GC alone and have the old in the VT, even that would be more reasonable. You have an entire competition now playing by Vegas Rules. It still needs tweaking in my opinion.
They should get rid of match making by roster size. It's not fair that I don't get to play all types of rosters and the game mode is harder for me because I spent money. That should be irrelevant as it is a pvp competition. Roster size shouldn't matter if it's a skill based competition.
It's not PvP. Never has been. It's rare to have the same attacker and defender going at it. Even so, it's a game mode with set parameters. This meta makes for close matches. I'm looking forward to the next meta honestly, but that's beside the point.
@GroundedWisdom You've made it clear that you disagree with the current scoring system. We've had it the other way and it was changed. This meta is more balanced in terms of giving the lesser account a chance. I don't mind that, especially considering the matchmaking has been changed.
Some treat it like arena. Grind out points and stop at the milestone they want to achieve. As I mentioned, when both players play well, the scoring system works. We should be focusing on that and not on those scenarios where people are scoring below 25-30k. Heck, call it a loss for both in that round and move on because in those instances, it's not who won, but who played badly less.
It's not Arena, though. It's a competition. One where we're fighting to take down the other side. Everything about this scoring is counterintuitive to what the point of a fighting competition is. The Health and Time Points should be equal. That's the only fair measure.
I'm sorry, but I disagree that it's balanced, and I've been playing since before the change. The scoring is not right. There have been a number of iterations, sure. There was also feedback that went into it from Players who represent the CCP, but they don't represent all Players. I don't mean to be disrespectful in saying that. I appreciate their efforts. That doesn't mean their thoughts apply to other Players as a whole. There are more forms of skill than just going back and forth for 2 minutes and winning by a small margin. Which is tight to begin with, when you have relatively even abilities. That's all well and fine for a Tournament, but that shouldn't apply to an ongoing PVP competition that encompasses a number of Players. Hell, if they wanted to apply that scoring to the GC alone and have the old in the VT, even that would be more reasonable. You have an entire competition now playing by Vegas Rules. It still needs tweaking in my opinion.
They should get rid of match making by roster size. It's not fair that I don't get to play all types of rosters and the game mode is harder for me because I spent money. That should be irrelevant as it is a pvp competition. Roster size shouldn't matter if it's a skill based competition.
You want to go back to Bronze just to take out lower Accounts? That's....something.
It's not Arena, though. It's a competition. One where we're fighting to take down the other side. Everything about this scoring is counterintuitive to what the point of a fighting competition is. The Health and Time Points should be equal. That's the only fair measure.
How is it the only fair measure? Because you say so? Kabam told everyone what they want the parameters to be, if you don't like it you don't have to play the game mode. Its optional for all players.
It's not Arena, though. It's a competition. One where we're fighting to take down the other side. Everything about this scoring is counterintuitive to what the point of a fighting competition is. The Health and Time Points should be equal. That's the only fair measure.
How is it the only fair measure? Because you say so? Kabam told everyone what they want the parameters to be, if you don't like it you don't have to play the game mode. Its optional for all players.
People shouldn't discuss how they think the game mode should improve because Kabam made it the way it is? This is a discussion forum.
It's not Arena, though. It's a competition. One where we're fighting to take down the other side. Everything about this scoring is counterintuitive to what the point of a fighting competition is. The Health and Time Points should be equal. That's the only fair measure.
How is it the only fair measure? Because you say so? Kabam told everyone what they want the parameters to be, if you don't like it you don't have to play the game mode. Its optional for all players.
People shouldn't discuss how they think the game mode should improve because Kabam made it the way it is? This is a discussion forum.
You can discuss it but saying "it is the only fair way" is comical.
What about maybe a point system? That takes into account your health, opponents health and the time it took you to finish the fight.
That sounds pretty fair.
So I guess your way isn't the only fair way. Again if this game mode bothers you that much just don't play it. Kabam did a great job making it fair for all roster types.
Okay, so you like it the way it is. I don't agree. I'm not going to stop voicing my opinions because you don't agree. You don't have to participate in my Thread either, but here we are. I'm not going to stop competing because I don't agree with the scoring changes.
Okay, so you like it the way it is. I don't agree. I'm not going to stop voicing my opinions because you don't agree. You don't have to participate in my Thread either, but here we are. I'm not going to stop competing because I don't agree with the scoring changes.
This isn't your thread. This is a community messaging board where everyone can share their opinion. I don't agree with you and I'm allowed to voice my opinion also. You seem to be very angry and the best course of action for your own mental health might be to take a break from the game mode. The scenario you are talking about only happens probably 5% or less in fights and to be honest I've probably encountered it 5x since BGs started. Not all game modes are made for all people. Maybe take a break, go outside and enjoy nature and come back.
First of all nowhere in the description of BGs the word KO is mentioned. I know this idea will be really hard to grasp, maybe because some people don't understand the concept of PvP, in PvP you are trying to defeat the other PLAYER, not the defender he placed. How do you defeat the other player? Do you go to his house and smack him in the head and KO him? NO you defeat the other player BY SCORING MORE POINTS THAN HIM. PvP is not about beating the AI is about scoring more points than the OTHER PLAYER. There is a scoring parameter, get used to it. Its also funny how its mentioned "its fine for GC not for regular people" and then "don't pretend GC is for end game players" ROFL
Okay, so you like it the way it is. I don't agree. I'm not going to stop voicing my opinions because you don't agree. You don't have to participate in my Thread either, but here we are. I'm not going to stop competing because I don't agree with the scoring changes.
This isn't your thread. This is a community messaging board where everyone can share their opinion. I don't agree with you and I'm allowed to voice my opinion also. You seem to be very angry and the best course of action for your own mental health might be to take a break from the game mode. The scenario you are talking about only happens probably 5% or less in fights and to be honest I've probably encountered it 5x since BGs started. Not all game modes are made for all people. Maybe take a break, go outside and enjoy nature and come back.
You're certainly allowed to voice your opinion, and you've done it several times, with the added disrespect of making certain personal judgments about me, and dismissive suggestions. Thank you for your feedback. I prefer to engage in a more productive manner.
Okay, so you like it the way it is. I don't agree. I'm not going to stop voicing my opinions because you don't agree. You don't have to participate in my Thread either, but here we are. I'm not going to stop competing because I don't agree with the scoring changes.
This isn't your thread. This is a community messaging board where everyone can share their opinion. I don't agree with you and I'm allowed to voice my opinion also. You seem to be very angry and the best course of action for your own mental health might be to take a break from the game mode. The scenario you are talking about only happens probably 5% or less in fights and to be honest I've probably encountered it 5x since BGs started. Not all game modes are made for all people. Maybe take a break, go outside and enjoy nature and come back.
You're certainly allowed to voice your opinion, and you've done it several times, with the added disrespect of making certain personal judgments about me, and dismissive suggestions. Thank you for your feedback. I prefer to engage in a more productive manner.
Was he the one who called you out for calling someone extremely stupid and foolish? The irony.
Comments
The game points are set up in a way that levels the playing field a bit. That's a big pro-player move for a majority of the base. Just look at the complaints in the metas where nukes reign. There are a ton of threads covering those situations.
Maybe the compromise would be level of health remaining. If a threshold isn't met, then you lose the fight if the other player KO'd someone? Honestly, I'm okay with the current system. It's fair when both play well.
Back to nuke.
Some people fail to see, that the is already a KO bonus, and it's not a fixed number, it's proportional to the seconds some needed to KO his opponent, and it's called:
TIME BONUS
Maybe Kabam should rename it to KO BONUS, to make more clear for those people to understand 🙂
Kabam wanted people to not just smash opponent and ignore getting hit in the face. So they tried to balance the ko points from the time and the your hp and opponent hp remaining also, to make it matter if you played skilfully as well as quickly.
I think it’s simply down to how they want the game mode to run. It’s their choice if they want people to focus on different factors.
So Yes, of course if kabam wants you to ko your opponent in a game mode, that is the main factor, regardless of hp. This is the case in aq, aw, event quest. You can get the ko, then heal up if you want and move on. There’s no factor for hp remaining , unless of course you ko yourself in war,then it comes into play.
Battlegrounds they decided that time and hp are also a factor and placed a points value on what they decide is important in the game mode. And as the game mode relies on points, the users of the game mode should try and get the most points.
If you look back at past summoners brawls (which I guess they base their bg on) They used to have it so that you got the most points for the fastest ko. That’s it. Fastest ko wins regardless of hp.
So indeed, someone would ko opponent and end fight on 5% hp within 50s and get the win against someone who ko opponent who ended fight on 95% hp who took it down in 51 sec.
If they didn’t ko , it was down to who got the most dmg during the time. And then I think if I recall correctly, only if they had tied with dmg, they would compare hp remaining,
So the priority was
1) ko fastest time
2) dmg if not ko
3) hp if dmg tied
So it’s already been done that way. And kabam has simply evolved it and decided they want to encourage attack and defence, not just attack.
So now it’s:
Ko - time - hp ….. all with a level of importance that kabam decided.
So the game mode is no longer saying ko is the only factor.
It’s now a balance between ko, time and hp. All we can do is ensure we have the most points for the win, by taking the opponent down as quickly and skilfully (without taking dmg) as possible.
Of course the main basic aim of any base combat game is to ko the opponent. But it’s the same as any game. If the game makers want to add extra ideas and features into it, then they can. It’s their choice. And that’s all bg is.
Imagine playing street fighter or tekken, what mode do you want to play dictates how you play. They all have the basic base”ko opponent”, but they also have added extra requirements, otherwise it’s all be the same game mode.
Solo
Classic combat infinite time - ko opponent
Classic combat timed - ko opponent. If no ko, you lose.
Survival - ko as many as you can without koing yourself . So here , hp is important to survive the next round.
Timed - ko opponent as fast as possible (hp doesn’t matter)
Vs mode
Classic combat - ko opponent ( infinite time)
Classic combat time limited - ko opponent, if no ko, whoever has highest hp wins. If same go, then it’s a draw.
For bgs,
ko is still given the most points - 30k.
Hp the second -15k
Time the least - 10k
So looking at that, it’s pretty clear. Ko is still the main factor with combined 40k. But to ensure you have the best chance to win as it’s points based,, ko them as carefully as possible. And as quickly as possible. In that order.
Balance of attack (ko and time) and defence (your hp).
Ko with max hp and decent time (54k)
Almost ko with max hp (44k)
Ko fast but lost almost all hp (41k)
Given they’ve evolved this from previous iterations and looking back at them all and considering what felt more fair, I think it’s a decent balance as it is, giving weight to attack, defence and speed of ko.
There are more forms of skill than just going back and forth for 2 minutes and winning by a small margin. Which is tight to begin with, when you have relatively even abilities.
That's all well and fine for a Tournament, but that shouldn't apply to an ongoing PVP competition that encompasses a number of Players. Hell, if they wanted to apply that scoring to the GC alone and have the old in the VT, even that would be more reasonable. You have an entire competition now playing by Vegas Rules. It still needs tweaking in my opinion.
@GroundedWisdom You've made it clear that you disagree with the current scoring system. We've had it the other way and it was changed. This meta is more balanced in terms of giving the lesser account a chance. I don't mind that, especially considering the matchmaking has been changed.
Some treat it like arena. Grind out points and stop at the milestone they want to achieve. As I mentioned, when both players play well, the scoring system works. We should be focusing on that and not on those scenarios where people are scoring below 25-30k. Heck, call it a loss for both in that round and move on because in those instances, it's not who won, but who played badly less.
GW be like!!
This is a discussion forum.
What about maybe a point system? That takes into account your health, opponents health and the time it took you to finish the fight.
That sounds pretty fair.
So I guess your way isn't the only fair way. Again if this game mode bothers you that much just don't play it. Kabam did a great job making it fair for all roster types.
You don't have to participate in my Thread either, but here we are.
I'm not going to stop competing because I don't agree with the scoring changes.
I know this idea will be really hard to grasp, maybe because some people don't understand the concept of PvP, in PvP you are trying to defeat the other PLAYER, not the defender he placed. How do you defeat the other player? Do you go to his house and smack him in the head and KO him? NO you defeat the other player BY SCORING MORE POINTS THAN HIM. PvP is not about beating the AI is about scoring more points than the OTHER PLAYER.
There is a scoring parameter, get used to it.
Its also funny how its mentioned "its fine for GC not for regular people" and then "don't pretend GC is for end game players" ROFL
Thank you for your feedback. I prefer to engage in a more productive manner.