Would love to get an update from the game team on if they are still happy with the tactic with all these new data points. I feel like 75% of the alliances we’ve faced to this point just have given up on this season already.
LOL look at Kabam’s response to public feedback/backlash:
1. Banquet: Oh well… 2. AW Massacre: We wanted this 3. Side Quest Rewards: *chirp chirp* 4. AW on Christmas: Not everyone celebrates it 5. AI Issues: Take down official post silently
I’m sure this will play well, Kabam and foster/attract more players.
war is in a really bad spot, but what long term difference does it make if they fix the global anyway? there's only another season left after this and while the current global attackers aren't that useful, some people have already made some rankups and they probably won't be relevant for the global after it, which is why 2 seasons per global is just a quick...hate saying it, cash grab.
i'm aware of former decay attackers overlapping as crush defenders like silk, ham, titania, void, spidergwen, but that feels like forced design.
example of why war forces rankups and wastes resources: sugar pill/s44
i ranked up:
silk: good champ, but banned for 75% of s44, banned all of s45, blacklisted for s46.
void: used some in season 44, banned for most of s45, blacklisted for s46.
cassie lang: useful for decay and that's about it for me. solid champ but don't like her and won't rank further in the future.
all these niche metas do is pressure rankups, get temporary use at best, then do nothing on our rosters as a new global comes in. and in the meantime, globals are structured to nerf whitelisted and or OP champs too.
examples:
whitelisted herc wasn't good for decay/sugarpill same with whitelisted torch same with scorpion and other OP champs
TL:dr the current implementation of war is a constant cycle of:
-forcing mediocre global rankups that becomes irrelevant after 2, sometimes even 1 season -usually neutralizes everyone's OP champs -even neutralizes some whitelisted champs
so what's the point of the mode? we've lost control of our rosters and just rank however does well enough, and they retain little value.
Adding a comment to this, we play in top 10 master and we can see the wish of opponents to just give up in some cases, opponents are dying 50-100 times while boosting and pushing.
Wars have become extremely costly. Many of our members are completely out of potions at this point in season which is a first.
It is not OK when some of the best players have to buy potions for units only because they know smaller loyalty potions won’t be enough and they’ll item out if they don’t spend units.
If the global is not balanced for next season or affordable resources (potions) aren’t added nothing will make people want to push. At least do something about potion size and cost (and item count, the global is ruthless and punishing and the current item limit isn’t enough).
If next season is left exactly the same with the same availability and cost of potions some may not be able to afford war after this season because their resources will be wiped out. Please look into this
interesting, I said the tactics should not be designed only for 300 players (top 10 alliances), instead it should be for 30000 players. Now Salty is complaining and we all know salty is a top10 war alliance. So it's not even designed for 300 players, it's really designed for devs because they are happy with it?
Adding a comment to this, we play in top 10 master and we can see the wish of opponents to just give up in some cases, opponents are dying 50-100 times while boosting and pushing.
Wars have become extremely costly. Many of our members are completely out of potions at this point in season which is a first.
It is not OK when some of the best players have to buy potions for units only because they know smaller loyalty potions won’t be enough and they’ll item out if they don’t spend units.
If the global is not balanced for next season or affordable resources (potions) aren’t added nothing will make people want to push. At least do something about potion size and cost (and item count, the global is ruthless and punishing and the current item limit isn’t enough).
If next season is left exactly the same with the same availability and cost of potions some may not be able to afford war after this season because their resources will be wiped out. Please look into this
100% agree. This tactic combination exposes fully how completely lackluster the potion economy update was. Loyalty potion rarity, inventory caps, costs and purchase limits are a complete joke compare to health pools that are 80-120k hp.
Scenario 1: R2 7star KM vs a R1 7star Silk defender. Player gets caught by a rooted sp1… last hit crits and goes from 90% to KO.
Healing that boosted KM will cost 1 40% revive plus 6 gold AW potions to fully heal… that’s 7 of the 15 alotted items. The player is at risk of itemingbout should a similar mistake happen elsewhere.
Scenario 2: Player blocks in time but there are 4 daunted passives. 25% of their health is gone for blocking a single sp1. Silk throws another in the same fight… KM is down to 50% health and had 2 more fights… 5 loyalty potions per a fight to heal out and that player is at 10 outta 15 items in 2 fights without taking a single hit. If KM has a 4th assignment the player can item out before evening entering the fight…. While playing well.
It puts place where they need to resort to using units or risk iteming out… or simply sacrificing all 3 ABs on a node not to item out elsewhere.
The potion economy like many of us told Kabam at the update it would be is woefully out of date already… especially married to ruthless tactics designed to make us use vastly more potions.
There’s no point in forums. Actual concerns from players are clearly ignored and critical posts are removed quicker than Quicksilver playing with himself. This defence tactic is beyond stupid, made even worse by an attack tactic that does almost nothing to counter it. It’s amazing how we can continually be surprised by Kabam not giving even half a thought to what the players might think about something before introducing it.
Honestly I feel like Kabam just wanted to mail it in during December. Awful side quest, lackluster banquet, horrible war meta, no break. Instead of taking criticism and listening they hit us with a “nope it’s working as intended we wanted this season to be harder”. Meanwhile they don’t change the potion situation. This season is extremely costly and going to lead to a lot of turnover of good players who just can’t afford to keep buying potions.
Instead of addressing this they’re going to continue to ignore the problem though. Hope they enjoyed their Christmas break at least!
That offer was probably just a recurring scheduled item, I wouldn't read into it much. Plus it's still cheaper to buy lv6 health with units than that offer.
I still think the root case is potion cost and the deaths from the node combination this season is just exposing that. I'm curious what the death count would look like for lower tier alliances that heal to full each fight. Think of how much more fun war would be if you entered each fight at full health instead of 40% from a revive. Make it like battlegrounds where if you do crappy on a match, then you take the round loss (which is a death in war), and go into the next match without a disadvantage (which is heal to full for free/cheap in war). You still have to buy your boosts/mastery swaps so Kabam gets there money that way .
In top tier I enjoy the increased death count, but that is while using the expected boosts which is typically a +45% attack/health (green/orange/red), gray, and power backs and healing to full each fight. These boosts are not insignificant in terms of performance, but that is the foundation laid out. Kabam has an interesting obstacle to account for a boosted and a non-boosted group of players by one node combination.
Not trying to create a debate on "skill", but in the effort of creating "buckets", here's some numbers I'm seeing: * [TopTierSkill + HealToFull + LargeBoosted] === 10-15 deaths/war (From 0-3 deaths/war in prior season) * [TopTierSkill + NoHeal + LowBoosts] === 50-150 deaths/war (many top tier alliances aren't pushing) * [LowerTierSkill + HealToFull? + MidBoosted?] === 75-125 deaths/war? (Guess based on some comments and I'm not sure what typical death count was prior seasons)
And another week went by without any update. Just to not let this discussion fall any lower i will comment again. Season ends next week and they are still ignoring us.
I get that if there is no update, that they won’t say anything but even an update that it’s being discussed or not would be nice.
I mean I think from other CCP members we’ve even heard there’s at least a discussion about potions, which really is at the root of the issue. The cost of AW does not align with the rewards if loyalty for all serious alliances win or lose ends up being a net negative even if you solo every fight assigned to you.
All that to say it is a bit discouraging that this thread and similar ones have not received an update.
Normally I should have been able to buy my 7 star loyalty crystal today or whenever the reset is but since whe climbed from tier 3/2 to tier 2/1 I'm spending more loyalty healing than I earn even if we win the war. When we lose it's a gross negative.
I chatted with the game team, who were aware of this issue and worked to resolve it. After chatting with them we have the following conclusion.
Early in the offseason, there was a bug that was causing a difficult combination of nodes to be even more difficult as a result of root not being removed at the end of defenders attacks. A fix for that bug went out this morning.
Beyond that, the team is happy with the current state of nodes, which were expressly designed to slightly increase the difficultly level of war.
How about you guys take a step back from trying to add root mechanics into everything. Its annoying and players dont like it.
Kabam keeps saying AW should have the best rewards, at end, they only made it be the most expensive game mode, rewards for 99.85% players are worse than just playing BG a few hours a week.
Best season ever. Nobody cared. We only “tried” in 1 war (used items that weren’t expiring). Already locked in to the same rewards bracket we finish every season. I have over 1m loyalty stashed…. Unheard of this late in a season.
From a selfish point of view, I hope they stick with this garbage meta for another season.
Masters players must have been squeezed this season. I don’t envy anyone that had to push through this rubbish and take it seriously.
Best season ever. Nobody cared. We only “tried” in 1 war (used items that weren’t expiring). Already locked in to the same rewards bracket we finish every season. I have over 1m loyalty stashed…. Unheard of this late in a season.
From a selfish point of view, I hope they stick with this garbage meta for another season.
Masters players must have been squeezed this season. I don’t envy anyone that had to push through this rubbish and take it seriously.
yeah we pushed this season but we were pretty much drained of resources halfway through. So we will rest next season, it can't be helped
Nobody is going to read this comment but if they do … this war is not fun. Think about Onslaught in this meta. At a certain point you can’t dex or phase his attacks, you can’t shed his neuros, his specials cause outrageous block damage, and sometimes he’s just totally unblockable. Photon too, but to a lesser extent. Nerf the meta. Nerf Onslaught. Don’t do this any more. Seriously. It. Is. Not. Fun.
i'm burned out and done after the season. not sure if i go back to an alliance. every game mode is a huge pain in the ass now. war is a joke, raids looks like another time waster, battlegrounds takes too much time, and AQ was never good.
I agree with y'all, this tactic wasnt much fun overall, and the team has received feedback highlighting this.
Appreciate you taking the time to respond on their behalf.
That said I’m not a fan of the last official response, being dismissive of the proactive attempts to get them to stop the car heading for the cliff, only to have a 3rd party follow up to tell us those concerns were valid after the car crash.
It’d be nice if the team remembered they could have tapped the breaks at some point. It’s a shame though as what’s done is done and there’s no fair way to compensate those who tired vs. those that took it easy.
Comments
1. Banquet: Oh well…
2. AW Massacre: We wanted this
3. Side Quest Rewards: *chirp chirp*
4. AW on Christmas: Not everyone celebrates it
5. AI Issues: Take down official post silently
I’m sure this will play well, Kabam and foster/attract more players.
i'm aware of former decay attackers overlapping as crush defenders like silk, ham, titania, void, spidergwen, but that feels like forced design.
example of why war forces rankups and wastes resources: sugar pill/s44
i ranked up:
silk: good champ, but banned for 75% of s44, banned all of s45, blacklisted for s46.
void: used some in season 44, banned for most of s45, blacklisted for s46.
cassie lang: useful for decay and that's about it for me. solid champ but don't like her and won't rank further in the future.
all these niche metas do is pressure rankups, get temporary use at best, then do nothing on our rosters as a new global comes in. and in the meantime, globals are structured to nerf whitelisted and or OP champs too.
examples:
whitelisted herc wasn't good for decay/sugarpill
same with whitelisted torch
same with scorpion and other OP champs
TL:dr the current implementation of war is a constant cycle of:
-forcing mediocre global rankups that becomes irrelevant after 2, sometimes even 1 season
-usually neutralizes everyone's OP champs
-even neutralizes some whitelisted champs
so what's the point of the mode? we've lost control of our rosters and just rank however does well enough, and they retain little value.
Kabam:
Wars have become extremely costly. Many of our members are completely out of potions at this point in season which is a first.
It is not OK when some of the best players have to buy potions for units only because they know smaller loyalty potions won’t be enough and they’ll item out if they don’t spend units.
If the global is not balanced for next season or affordable resources (potions) aren’t added nothing will make people want to push.
At least do something about potion size and cost (and item count, the global is ruthless and punishing and the current item limit isn’t enough).
If next season is left exactly the same with the same availability and cost of potions some may not be able to afford war after this season because their resources will be wiped out. Please look into this
Now Salty is complaining and we all know salty is a top10 war alliance.
So it's not even designed for 300 players, it's really designed for devs because they are happy with it?
Scenario 1: R2 7star KM vs a R1 7star Silk defender. Player gets caught by a rooted sp1… last hit crits and goes from 90% to KO.
Healing that boosted KM will cost 1 40% revive plus 6 gold AW potions to fully heal… that’s 7 of the 15 alotted items. The player is at risk of itemingbout should a similar mistake happen elsewhere.
Scenario 2: Player blocks in time but there are 4 daunted passives. 25% of their health is gone for blocking a single sp1. Silk throws another in the same fight… KM is down to 50% health and had 2 more fights… 5 loyalty potions per a fight to heal out and that player is at 10 outta 15 items in 2 fights without taking a single hit. If KM has a 4th assignment the player can item out before evening entering the fight…. While playing well.
It puts place where they need to resort to using units or risk iteming out… or simply sacrificing all 3 ABs on a node not to item out elsewhere.
The potion economy like many of us told Kabam at the update it would be is woefully out of date already… especially married to ruthless tactics designed to make us use vastly more potions.
Instead of addressing this they’re going to continue to ignore the problem though. Hope they enjoyed their Christmas break at least!
I still think the root case is potion cost and the deaths from the node combination this season is just exposing that. I'm curious what the death count would look like for lower tier alliances that heal to full each fight. Think of how much more fun war would be if you entered each fight at full health instead of 40% from a revive. Make it like battlegrounds where if you do crappy on a match, then you take the round loss (which is a death in war), and go into the next match without a disadvantage (which is heal to full for free/cheap in war). You still have to buy your boosts/mastery swaps so Kabam gets there money that way
In top tier I enjoy the increased death count, but that is while using the expected boosts which is typically a +45% attack/health (green/orange/red), gray, and power backs and healing to full each fight. These boosts are not insignificant in terms of performance, but that is the foundation laid out. Kabam has an interesting obstacle to account for a boosted and a non-boosted group of players by one node combination.
Not trying to create a debate on "skill", but in the effort of creating "buckets", here's some numbers I'm seeing:
* [TopTierSkill + HealToFull + LargeBoosted] === 10-15 deaths/war (From 0-3 deaths/war in prior season)
* [TopTierSkill + NoHeal + LowBoosts] === 50-150 deaths/war (many top tier alliances aren't pushing)
* [LowerTierSkill + HealToFull? + MidBoosted?] === 75-125 deaths/war? (Guess based on some comments and I'm not sure what typical death count was prior seasons)
I mean I think from other CCP members we’ve even heard there’s at least a discussion about potions, which really is at the root of the issue. The cost of AW does not align with the rewards if loyalty for all serious alliances win or lose ends up being a net negative even if you solo every fight assigned to you.
All that to say it is a bit discouraging that this thread and similar ones have not received an update.
It was the most expensive season ever everyone says, I would be curious to read the general statistics at all tiers
Nobody cared. We only “tried” in 1 war (used items that weren’t expiring).
Already locked in to the same rewards bracket we finish every season.
I have over 1m loyalty stashed…. Unheard of this late in a season.
From a selfish point of view, I hope they stick with this garbage meta for another season.
Masters players must have been squeezed this season. I don’t envy anyone that had to push through this rubbish and take it seriously.
I agree with y'all, this tactic wasnt much fun overall, and the team has received feedback highlighting this.
That said I’m not a fan of the last official response, being dismissive of the proactive attempts to get them to stop the car heading for the cliff, only to have a 3rd party follow up to tell us those concerns were valid after the car crash.
It’d be nice if the team remembered they could have tapped the breaks at some point. It’s a shame though as what’s done is done and there’s no fair way to compensate those who tired vs. those that took it easy.