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The team have found the source of the issue and will be updating with our next build.
We apologize for the inconvenience.
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**Arcade is being extra tricky with his Murder Box...**
It appears Arcade has been non-cooperative in his approach to this month's side quest and presented his clues in a nonsensical order. Lucky you, Summoners, we have our best and brightest on the case and those clues should now be a lot more straightforward. While messing around in Arcade's files we came across a phrase, highlighted and bolded, with sparkles and pointy arrows: "the abode for the dead" ... Maybe that will help you along the way!
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"You're Bad at Battlegrounds." Thoughts?

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Comments

  • Options
    PistolcuApaPistolcuApa Posts: 134 ★
    I'm 2.8mil rating, and had this guy in diamond 3 😅😅


  • Options
    DarkNightRiseDarkNightRise Posts: 192 ★
    BringPopcorn said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    BringPopcorn said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    DNA3000 said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    My alt account is 1m7 rating but I consider myself decent skills so I still usually end up Vibranium. The annoying thing is I can beat those over 3m account but stand no chance when facing those Valiant 5m account and this matchup is already happen from Pla2.

    My point is that anyone that starts in P2 must have been able to promote from P2 in the previous season. So arguing that a player that starts in P2 has some weird disadvantage due to the way match making works that makes playing BG impossible is illogical.
    I just want your solution how to solve my case? Even Beroman or any top tier BG can’t promote from Pla2 with a 1m7 account! So do I just need to wait until the end of season to PLAY BG? I understand that there is no absolutely fair match, but at least reasonable for VC. I got so many match with over 5m Valiant account mean while I’m new paragon! Wtf is that!!!
    Rating is irrelevant
    Not relevant if you run suicide mastery and in a small range for example 3m-4mil because at that point of rating the roster is already decent. But for around 1m5 acc usually just have 3-4 6r4 and some 7r1 in roster. How the hell to fight with Valiant with full roster of 7r3, 7r2 and 6r5!!!!
    Rating is IRRELEVANT because its the sumnod all champs from 1* to 7*.
    The competition should not be based on your roster, you don't like fighting Valiants, then get to Valiant. When you get there you will understand how they are able to rank more champs. The short and simple answer is that they get a lot more materials to do so.
    I definitely can reach to Valiant but it needs TIME! Do you understand that mean while I grow my roster those Valiant also grow their roster as well! This game now material base on money events much more than any taking reward from in-game content! So when will I can have a fair matchup? Answer me please!!! Does that mean the players join this game later should never be equal to those join the game early?
  • Options
    DarkNightRiseDarkNightRise Posts: 192 ★
    DNA3000 said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    DNA3000 said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    My alt account is 1m7 rating but I consider myself decent skills so I still usually end up Vibranium. The annoying thing is I can beat those over 3m account but stand no chance when facing those Valiant 5m account and this matchup is already happen from Pla2.

    My point is that anyone that starts in P2 must have been able to promote from P2 in the previous season. So arguing that a player that starts in P2 has some weird disadvantage due to the way match making works that makes playing BG impossible is illogical.
    I just want your solution how to solve my case? Even Beroman or any top tier BG can’t promote from Pla2 with a 1m7 account! So do I just need to wait until the end of season to PLAY BG? I understand that there is no absolutely fair match, but at least reasonable for VC. I got so many match with over 5m Valiant account mean while I’m new paragon! Wtf is that!!!
    The question you're asking boils down to: how can weaker players consistently beat stronger ones. And the answer is: they can't, nor should they.

    Fairness is not about giving everyone an equal chance to enter GC or an equal chance to place #1. That's called a lottery. We can just choose every BG place by random draw, and that would be completely fair, if we decide the definition of "fair" is "everyone has an equal chance to succeed."

    But in a competition, that is not the definition of fair. The definition of fair is everyone has an equal and unbiased opportunity to advance to the degree their competitive strength will allow.

    Besides, these days a one million account means you started yesterday. I don't expect any such player to get to GC. I don't expect them to be able to find the front door to their house to leave in the morning. But I described how I was able to get a very mid Cav account into GC that had, at the time, less than two million rating. It isn't easy, but if I can do it, I'm pretty sure the players with far more skill than I have can do it also. It isn't impossible, and it doesn't require superhuman skill, time, or spending.
    So does this mean the FIRST important thing in BG is roster strength, not skills right? Imagine a match between Pacciao vs Vladimir Klitsko! Both have very good skills, but how long do you thing Pacciao can stand still? Do the audience want to see this kind of match? Do the boxer themselves want this match happen as well?
  • Options
    DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 21,386 ★★★★★
    DarkNightRise said:

    Does that mean the players join this game later should never be equal to those join the game early?

    Correct.
  • Options
    BringPopcornBringPopcorn Posts: 3,330 ★★★★★
    DarkNightRise said:

    DNA3000 said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    DNA3000 said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    My alt account is 1m7 rating but I consider myself decent skills so I still usually end up Vibranium. The annoying thing is I can beat those over 3m account but stand no chance when facing those Valiant 5m account and this matchup is already happen from Pla2.

    My point is that anyone that starts in P2 must have been able to promote from P2 in the previous season. So arguing that a player that starts in P2 has some weird disadvantage due to the way match making works that makes playing BG impossible is illogical.
    I just want your solution how to solve my case? Even Beroman or any top tier BG can’t promote from Pla2 with a 1m7 account! So do I just need to wait until the end of season to PLAY BG? I understand that there is no absolutely fair match, but at least reasonable for VC. I got so many match with over 5m Valiant account mean while I’m new paragon! Wtf is that!!!
    The question you're asking boils down to: how can weaker players consistently beat stronger ones. And the answer is: they can't, nor should they.

    Fairness is not about giving everyone an equal chance to enter GC or an equal chance to place #1. That's called a lottery. We can just choose every BG place by random draw, and that would be completely fair, if we decide the definition of "fair" is "everyone has an equal chance to succeed."

    But in a competition, that is not the definition of fair. The definition of fair is everyone has an equal and unbiased opportunity to advance to the degree their competitive strength will allow.

    Besides, these days a one million account means you started yesterday. I don't expect any such player to get to GC. I don't expect them to be able to find the front door to their house to leave in the morning. But I described how I was able to get a very mid Cav account into GC that had, at the time, less than two million rating. It isn't easy, but if I can do it, I'm pretty sure the players with far more skill than I have can do it also. It isn't impossible, and it doesn't require superhuman skill, time, or spending.
    So does this mean the FIRST important thing in BG is roster strength, not skills right? Imagine a match between Pacciao vs Vladimir Klitsko! Both have very good skills, but how long do you thing Pacciao can stand still? Do the audience want to see this kind of match? Do the boxer themselves want this match happen as well?
    A match like that should never happen, and that was Kabam's mistake letting 4 (now 5) progressions levels fight and compete for the same pool of rewards. In my opinion, BGs should have been progression gated, maybe even Prestiege gated.
  • Options
    GrO_ot78GrO_ot78 Posts: 619 ★★★
    Not sure if it should be mentioned, but there are several tactical things you can do, such as when to play BG.

    I have found out when there is a higher probability, in my time zone, to face manageable opponents…so it might be something to think about, and figure out, if you are struggling in BG.

  • Options
    DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,974 Guardian
    Vegeta9001 said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Vegeta9001 said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Vegeta9001 said:

    xLunatiXx said:

    Vegeta9001 said:

    There is too much RNG involved in drafting phase for it to be considered a purely win based mode. I never struggle to make GC usually do it with well over a 75% win rate but once I make GC I rarely ever bother to climb past gamma.

    I took a brief look at that news, never finished reading it. There is always room for improvement, you can use that article as motivation, but I wouldn't feel targeted by it, again, there is only so much you can do when drafting decides to one sidedly favor one person.

    Battlegrounds is the only draft style format I've played that has you choose bans, and then further limit your drafting options by randomising your draft pool to 5 selective picks. Takes away any skill/knowledge aspect when you think " oh I can use this person in my deck to counter that one he just picked" "oh, they haven't shown up the entire drafting phase, cool"

    Simply because there are more than one option for any champ you'll face. You are not stuck. It forces you to use unusual champs for specific matchups but that's where true skill shows up.
    Calling draft RNG for a lack of progress in GC is just untrue.
    RNG does not make for a competitive or skillbased mode. Which is why any draft league or draft format does not have your characters randomly batched out to you. It's just a way for the game to be quirky. "Forcing you to use unusual champs" again isn't competitive or skill based. I also never once said the RNG is a reason for people not progressing, just that it is a reason it will never be considered a purely skill based mode.

    I've had 0 issue climbing to GC and again, usually do it with a pretty high win %. But that doesn't take away from the fact random drafting is anti-competitive. One player is handed an advantage on a game by game basis by selectively having champions essentially removed from play, on top of the 3 bans, bans are actually a competitive way to limit your roster, RNG is not.

    Also to counter your point, there are nodes and metas that already restrict your roster, that's literally how competitive modes work,each season has a new meta, with certain characters shining and some taking a backseat. As for your photon mantis point, that's exactly why it's not competitive, I lock in photon or bullseye, then the game decides to hand you 0 counters for either, yet my RNG picks dunk on your team you lose unless you're facing a thrower or literal potato.
    Without random drafts, drafts would become predictable, eliminating the opportunity to demonstrate strategic drafting skill.
    You also can't have strategic drafts when the game is picking and choosing who to give you. No amount of game knowledge can prevent the RNG of a horrid round of drafting. How do you strategically draft against the opponent getting direct counters to your team every one of the 4 draft rounds and you get offered more champs that are just fodder to their current picks. I've had some games where in have one favourable round out of the entire drafting phase. Then I've had days where I just steam roll opponent's and I don't even feel the enjoyment of fun in it because the opponent never stood a chance. They just got handed the bottom of the barrel of their deck and never got a counter to a bullseye, a photon, a bishop, heck, even a duped antman.
    Everyone gets bad luck.
    Losing via bad Luck consistently is notconoetitive.
    Losing via bad luck consistently is also not bad luck.
  • Options
    DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,974 Guardian
    DarkNightRise said:

    DNA3000 said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    DNA3000 said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    My alt account is 1m7 rating but I consider myself decent skills so I still usually end up Vibranium. The annoying thing is I can beat those over 3m account but stand no chance when facing those Valiant 5m account and this matchup is already happen from Pla2.

    My point is that anyone that starts in P2 must have been able to promote from P2 in the previous season. So arguing that a player that starts in P2 has some weird disadvantage due to the way match making works that makes playing BG impossible is illogical.
    I just want your solution how to solve my case? Even Beroman or any top tier BG can’t promote from Pla2 with a 1m7 account! So do I just need to wait until the end of season to PLAY BG? I understand that there is no absolutely fair match, but at least reasonable for VC. I got so many match with over 5m Valiant account mean while I’m new paragon! Wtf is that!!!
    The question you're asking boils down to: how can weaker players consistently beat stronger ones. And the answer is: they can't, nor should they.

    Fairness is not about giving everyone an equal chance to enter GC or an equal chance to place #1. That's called a lottery. We can just choose every BG place by random draw, and that would be completely fair, if we decide the definition of "fair" is "everyone has an equal chance to succeed."

    But in a competition, that is not the definition of fair. The definition of fair is everyone has an equal and unbiased opportunity to advance to the degree their competitive strength will allow.

    Besides, these days a one million account means you started yesterday. I don't expect any such player to get to GC. I don't expect them to be able to find the front door to their house to leave in the morning. But I described how I was able to get a very mid Cav account into GC that had, at the time, less than two million rating. It isn't easy, but if I can do it, I'm pretty sure the players with far more skill than I have can do it also. It isn't impossible, and it doesn't require superhuman skill, time, or spending.
    So does this mean the FIRST important thing in BG is roster strength, not skills right?
    It does not. If it was, this would be impossible. I mean, you are literally replying to a post that links to that same thread. A low strength roster played by a strong but not top tier player can make it to GC. How can roster strength be the first most important thing if that is possible?

    Fighting skill, knowledge, strategic insight, deck construction, and roster strength all play a role. But I would say that skill and knowledge are more important. A strong roster in the hands of an idiot will not go far. A weak roster played by someone who can construct the best possible deck from that roster, draft well, and play the fights expertly can make it into GC. And I'm not the most knowledgeable or best fighter. Someone with actual top tier skill will do much better than I can.

    You ask: "Imagine a match between Pacciao vs Vladimir Klitsko! Both have very good skills, but how long do you thing Pacciao can stand still? Do the audience want to see this kind of match? Do the boxer themselves want this match happen as well?" Pacciao would almost certainly lose. And he should, if he attempted to win a heavyweight fight. Pacciao did actually fight in multiple weight classes, because there is a limited ability for a human to move between classes. But I don't think it is humanly possible for a fighter to excel at lightweight, and somehow build themselves all the way up to heavyweight. It isn't normal or reasonable to expect that in boxing.

    However, it is not just reasonable but *expected* that MCOC players will progress upward. Uncollected players will become Cavalier players. Cavalier players will become Paragon players. All of the lightweights in MCOC are expected to eventually become heavyweights eventually. We can't design the sport of boxing to encourage boxers to all become heavyweights because that is stupid and ridiculous. But MCOC is designed that way, because MCOC is a progressional game. If you think Cavalier is a type of player and not just a rest stop along the highway, you're playing the wrong game.

    Liightweight is a type of boxer. Cavalier is just a passing phase of a player. And that's one among many reasons the sport of boxing and the Battlegrounds game mode are structured differently, and have to be.
  • Options
    DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,974 Guardian
    BringPopcorn said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    DNA3000 said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    DNA3000 said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    My alt account is 1m7 rating but I consider myself decent skills so I still usually end up Vibranium. The annoying thing is I can beat those over 3m account but stand no chance when facing those Valiant 5m account and this matchup is already happen from Pla2.

    My point is that anyone that starts in P2 must have been able to promote from P2 in the previous season. So arguing that a player that starts in P2 has some weird disadvantage due to the way match making works that makes playing BG impossible is illogical.
    I just want your solution how to solve my case? Even Beroman or any top tier BG can’t promote from Pla2 with a 1m7 account! So do I just need to wait until the end of season to PLAY BG? I understand that there is no absolutely fair match, but at least reasonable for VC. I got so many match with over 5m Valiant account mean while I’m new paragon! Wtf is that!!!
    The question you're asking boils down to: how can weaker players consistently beat stronger ones. And the answer is: they can't, nor should they.

    Fairness is not about giving everyone an equal chance to enter GC or an equal chance to place #1. That's called a lottery. We can just choose every BG place by random draw, and that would be completely fair, if we decide the definition of "fair" is "everyone has an equal chance to succeed."

    But in a competition, that is not the definition of fair. The definition of fair is everyone has an equal and unbiased opportunity to advance to the degree their competitive strength will allow.

    Besides, these days a one million account means you started yesterday. I don't expect any such player to get to GC. I don't expect them to be able to find the front door to their house to leave in the morning. But I described how I was able to get a very mid Cav account into GC that had, at the time, less than two million rating. It isn't easy, but if I can do it, I'm pretty sure the players with far more skill than I have can do it also. It isn't impossible, and it doesn't require superhuman skill, time, or spending.
    So does this mean the FIRST important thing in BG is roster strength, not skills right? Imagine a match between Pacciao vs Vladimir Klitsko! Both have very good skills, but how long do you thing Pacciao can stand still? Do the audience want to see this kind of match? Do the boxer themselves want this match happen as well?
    A match like that should never happen, and that was Kabam's mistake letting 4 (now 5) progressions levels fight and compete for the same pool of rewards. In my opinion, BGs should have been progression gated, maybe even Prestiege gated.
    Maybe, but that would punish the highly skilled players disproportionately, which is not what you want to do in a competitive mode. At least not without some very good reason. And weaker players complaining about being disadvantaged is not one of those good reasons in my opinion.

    It is the skilled Cavs that can beat the lesser Paragon and Valiants. Forcing everyone to "fight in their lane" means the bad Paragons never have to face the good Cavs and TBs, meanwhile the highly skilled Cavs and TBs never get a shot at beating the higher progression players for higher rewards than their own title would grant.

    In boxing, Pacciao has no chance against Klitschko. In MCOC, MCOC Pacciao can, and often does beat MCOC Klitschko. Pacciao never boxes Klitschko because Pacciao has no real chance at getting heavyweight prizes, but does risk critical injury and being eliminated from the sport entirely. MCOC Pacciao can beat MCOC Klitschko for top tier prizes, and faces zero risk in attempting to do so. It is not like if you lose in Battlegrounds you lose the champs you used.

    The blunt truth of all competitions is when you create opportunities for the best to excel, you automatically create opportunities for the worst to fail. You have to accept that both as a competitor, and as a game designer. If you can't stomach creating situations where players are ground into the dirt, you should not be designing competitive games.
  • Options
    BringPopcornBringPopcorn Posts: 3,330 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    BringPopcorn said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    DNA3000 said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    DNA3000 said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    My alt account is 1m7 rating but I consider myself decent skills so I still usually end up Vibranium. The annoying thing is I can beat those over 3m account but stand no chance when facing those Valiant 5m account and this matchup is already happen from Pla2.

    My point is that anyone that starts in P2 must have been able to promote from P2 in the previous season. So arguing that a player that starts in P2 has some weird disadvantage due to the way match making works that makes playing BG impossible is illogical.
    I just want your solution how to solve my case? Even Beroman or any top tier BG can’t promote from Pla2 with a 1m7 account! So do I just need to wait until the end of season to PLAY BG? I understand that there is no absolutely fair match, but at least reasonable for VC. I got so many match with over 5m Valiant account mean while I’m new paragon! Wtf is that!!!
    The question you're asking boils down to: how can weaker players consistently beat stronger ones. And the answer is: they can't, nor should they.

    Fairness is not about giving everyone an equal chance to enter GC or an equal chance to place #1. That's called a lottery. We can just choose every BG place by random draw, and that would be completely fair, if we decide the definition of "fair" is "everyone has an equal chance to succeed."

    But in a competition, that is not the definition of fair. The definition of fair is everyone has an equal and unbiased opportunity to advance to the degree their competitive strength will allow.

    Besides, these days a one million account means you started yesterday. I don't expect any such player to get to GC. I don't expect them to be able to find the front door to their house to leave in the morning. But I described how I was able to get a very mid Cav account into GC that had, at the time, less than two million rating. It isn't easy, but if I can do it, I'm pretty sure the players with far more skill than I have can do it also. It isn't impossible, and it doesn't require superhuman skill, time, or spending.
    So does this mean the FIRST important thing in BG is roster strength, not skills right? Imagine a match between Pacciao vs Vladimir Klitsko! Both have very good skills, but how long do you thing Pacciao can stand still? Do the audience want to see this kind of match? Do the boxer themselves want this match happen as well?
    A match like that should never happen, and that was Kabam's mistake letting 4 (now 5) progressions levels fight and compete for the same pool of rewards. In my opinion, BGs should have been progression gated, maybe even Prestiege gated.
    Maybe, but that would punish the highly skilled players disproportionately, which is not what you want to do in a competitive mode. At least not without some very good reason. And weaker players complaining about being disadvantaged is not one of those good reasons in my opinion.

    It is the skilled Cavs that can beat the lesser Paragon and Valiants. Forcing everyone to "fight in their lane" means the bad Paragons never have to face the good Cavs and TBs, meanwhile the highly skilled Cavs and TBs never get a shot at beating the higher progression players for higher rewards than their own title would grant.

    In boxing, Pacciao has no chance against Klitschko. In MCOC, MCOC Pacciao can, and often does beat MCOC Klitschko. Pacciao never boxes Klitschko because Pacciao has no real chance at getting heavyweight prizes, but does risk critical injury and being eliminated from the sport entirely. MCOC Pacciao can beat MCOC Klitschko for top tier prizes, and faces zero risk in attempting to do so. It is not like if you lose in Battlegrounds you lose the champs you used.

    The blunt truth of all competitions is when you create opportunities for the best to excel, you automatically create opportunities for the worst to fail. You have to accept that both as a competitor, and as a game designer. If you can't stomach creating situations where players are ground into the dirt, you should not be designing competitive games.
    I agree with you, complaining about matchmaking should not be a reason to make other players not participate. Unfortunately a lot of MCoC players decide to avoid their own reality, the word unfair is used too often, and that's due to the entitlement to receive or reach rewards. There is a repetitive question in many forms, "How am I supposed to win?" and the straight forward answer is "You are not"; but i guess it is way too much to chew and swallow for some players.
  • Options
    DarkNightRiseDarkNightRise Posts: 192 ★
    BringPopcorn said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    DNA3000 said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    DNA3000 said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    My alt account is 1m7 rating but I consider myself decent skills so I still usually end up Vibranium. The annoying thing is I can beat those over 3m account but stand no chance when facing those Valiant 5m account and this matchup is already happen from Pla2.

    My point is that anyone that starts in P2 must have been able to promote from P2 in the previous season. So arguing that a player that starts in P2 has some weird disadvantage due to the way match making works that makes playing BG impossible is illogical.
    I just want your solution how to solve my case? Even Beroman or any top tier BG can’t promote from Pla2 with a 1m7 account! So do I just need to wait until the end of season to PLAY BG? I understand that there is no absolutely fair match, but at least reasonable for VC. I got so many match with over 5m Valiant account mean while I’m new paragon! Wtf is that!!!
    The question you're asking boils down to: how can weaker players consistently beat stronger ones. And the answer is: they can't, nor should they.

    Fairness is not about giving everyone an equal chance to enter GC or an equal chance to place #1. That's called a lottery. We can just choose every BG place by random draw, and that would be completely fair, if we decide the definition of "fair" is "everyone has an equal chance to succeed."

    But in a competition, that is not the definition of fair. The definition of fair is everyone has an equal and unbiased opportunity to advance to the degree their competitive strength will allow.

    Besides, these days a one million account means you started yesterday. I don't expect any such player to get to GC. I don't expect them to be able to find the front door to their house to leave in the morning. But I described how I was able to get a very mid Cav account into GC that had, at the time, less than two million rating. It isn't easy, but if I can do it, I'm pretty sure the players with far more skill than I have can do it also. It isn't impossible, and it doesn't require superhuman skill, time, or spending.
    So does this mean the FIRST important thing in BG is roster strength, not skills right? Imagine a match between Pacciao vs Vladimir Klitsko! Both have very good skills, but how long do you thing Pacciao can stand still? Do the audience want to see this kind of match? Do the boxer themselves want this match happen as well?
    A match like that should never happen, and that was Kabam's mistake letting 4 (now 5) progressions levels fight and compete for the same pool of rewards. In my opinion, BGs should have been progression gated, maybe even Prestiege gated.
    That’s my suggestion from the early of this thread! Put BG separately in different progressions level fights and of course for different level reward as well. You want the best reward? Fine you need to grow your account to Valiant and beat other Valiants to get the best reward. For me personally, I don’t care that much about rewards, I’m ok with low level Paragon or even Cavalier level reward to fight with the others same level.
  • Options
    DarkNightRiseDarkNightRise Posts: 192 ★
    DNA3000 said:

    BringPopcorn said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    DNA3000 said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    DNA3000 said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    My alt account is 1m7 rating but I consider myself decent skills so I still usually end up Vibranium. The annoying thing is I can beat those over 3m account but stand no chance when facing those Valiant 5m account and this matchup is already happen from Pla2.

    My point is that anyone that starts in P2 must have been able to promote from P2 in the previous season. So arguing that a player that starts in P2 has some weird disadvantage due to the way match making works that makes playing BG impossible is illogical.
    I just want your solution how to solve my case? Even Beroman or any top tier BG can’t promote from Pla2 with a 1m7 account! So do I just need to wait until the end of season to PLAY BG? I understand that there is no absolutely fair match, but at least reasonable for VC. I got so many match with over 5m Valiant account mean while I’m new paragon! Wtf is that!!!
    The question you're asking boils down to: how can weaker players consistently beat stronger ones. And the answer is: they can't, nor should they.

    Fairness is not about giving everyone an equal chance to enter GC or an equal chance to place #1. That's called a lottery. We can just choose every BG place by random draw, and that would be completely fair, if we decide the definition of "fair" is "everyone has an equal chance to succeed."

    But in a competition, that is not the definition of fair. The definition of fair is everyone has an equal and unbiased opportunity to advance to the degree their competitive strength will allow.

    Besides, these days a one million account means you started yesterday. I don't expect any such player to get to GC. I don't expect them to be able to find the front door to their house to leave in the morning. But I described how I was able to get a very mid Cav account into GC that had, at the time, less than two million rating. It isn't easy, but if I can do it, I'm pretty sure the players with far more skill than I have can do it also. It isn't impossible, and it doesn't require superhuman skill, time, or spending.
    So does this mean the FIRST important thing in BG is roster strength, not skills right? Imagine a match between Pacciao vs Vladimir Klitsko! Both have very good skills, but how long do you thing Pacciao can stand still? Do the audience want to see this kind of match? Do the boxer themselves want this match happen as well?
    A match like that should never happen, and that was Kabam's mistake letting 4 (now 5) progressions levels fight and compete for the same pool of rewards. In my opinion, BGs should have been progression gated, maybe even Prestiege gated.
    Maybe, but that would punish the highly skilled players disproportionately, which is not what you want to do in a competitive mode. At least not without some very good reason. And weaker players complaining about being disadvantaged is not one of those good reasons in my opinion.

    It is the skilled Cavs that can beat the lesser Paragon and Valiants. Forcing everyone to "fight in their lane" means the bad Paragons never have to face the good Cavs and TBs, meanwhile the highly skilled Cavs and TBs never get a shot at beating the higher progression players for higher rewards than their own title would grant.

    In boxing, Pacciao has no chance against Klitschko. In MCOC, MCOC Pacciao can, and often does beat MCOC Klitschko. Pacciao never boxes Klitschko because Pacciao has no real chance at getting heavyweight prizes, but does risk critical injury and being eliminated from the sport entirely. MCOC Pacciao can beat MCOC Klitschko for top tier prizes, and faces zero risk in attempting to do so. It is not like if you lose in Battlegrounds you lose the champs you used.

    The blunt truth of all competitions is when you create opportunities for the best to excel, you automatically create opportunities for the worst to fail. You have to accept that both as a competitor, and as a game designer. If you can't stomach creating situations where players are ground into the dirt, you should not be designing competitive games.
    Really can you show me an example of Paragon beat Valiant in BG? Please! Any link from youtube or yourself personally,
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    Grub88Grub88 Posts: 262 ★★
    Seriously how do you stop notifications from a thread you have commented on. I’m sick of seeing all this waffling on
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    TyEdgeTyEdge Posts: 2,985 ★★★★★
    Meanwhile I took a couple seasons off and all the work I did building a valiant roster gets me nothing because I’m getting spired against valiants who didn’t take a couple months off.
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    gohard123gohard123 Posts: 1,014 ★★★
    TyEdge said:

    Meanwhile I took a couple seasons off and all the work I did building a valiant roster gets me nothing because I’m getting spired against valiants who didn’t take a couple months off.

    Literally a skill issue because people in this thread swear that if they had a valiant roster that they would be able to compete.
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    TerminatrixTerminatrix Posts: 1,742 ★★★★★
    GroundedWisdom said:

    As much as I love Jax and I appreciate the gesture to let people know it's okay, the stance behind it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
    BGs has been anything but smooth. It's been a work in progress. Personally I've lost the drive the last few Seasons. Now we have new Milestones in Solo, and that might be motivation, but now I have to work my way back up from Bronze, against other Players who have either lost their drive or just haven't played last Season, and it's anything but easy.
    I've been vocal in the past about changes to the Victory Track and issues that have come up, and I'm afraid more Rewards aren't going to be enough to remedy participation. Even if you maintain your Season to streamline into Plat each Season, you're coming up against the best, and you have to wait until the last week to even bother.
    Some of this is because I dropped off. Fair enough. The rest, the Players who are much earlier on than myself, have no chance in hell. They're going to keep beating their heads against a wall. The problem is the Rewards are some of the most lucrative in the game, so they're going to keep trying.
    My issue isn't that Jax shared a friendly word. It's the fact that the stance is, for lack of a better word, tough. Which means people are being used because they need the numbers for Matchmaking, but also not being heard. More than that, being told their issues are just whining. Perhaps not the wording of Kabam, but it's the gist I get from everyone overall.
    The only thing I can say is listen to all Players. Not just the cream of the crop that have no problem and tell everyone else to "Git gud.". No matter where someone is at in the game, there's a person behind that Account. They'll only be told to get over it so long before they stop caring completely. Then you have a game mode that is so elitist people will lose interest.

    I actually agree with this
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    startropicsstartropics Posts: 673 ★★★★
    competition like battlegrounds is by definition "elitist"...aka merit based.

    it doesn't mean you're a bad person if you don't do well, it's just means others are better, have prepared more, and take the game more seriously...and guess what? it's perfectly ok.

    there are levels to anything in life and it's always good to be grounded and know where you stand, that way you have the right perspective to be able to enjoy things and improve yourself if you choose to.
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    DarkNightRiseDarkNightRise Posts: 192 ★
    ItsClobberinTime said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    DNA3000 said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    DNA3000 said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    My alt account is 1m7 rating but I consider myself decent skills so I still usually end up Vibranium. The annoying thing is I can beat those over 3m account but stand no chance when facing those Valiant 5m account and this matchup is already happen from Pla2.

    My point is that anyone that starts in P2 must have been able to promote from P2 in the previous season. So arguing that a player that starts in P2 has some weird disadvantage due to the way match making works that makes playing BG impossible is illogical.
    I just want your solution how to solve my case? Even Beroman or any top tier BG can’t promote from Pla2 with a 1m7 account! So do I just need to wait until the end of season to PLAY BG? I understand that there is no absolutely fair match, but at least reasonable for VC. I got so many match with over 5m Valiant account mean while I’m new paragon! Wtf is that!!!
    The question you're asking boils down to: how can weaker players consistently beat stronger ones. And the answer is: they can't, nor should they.

    Fairness is not about giving everyone an equal chance to enter GC or an equal chance to place #1. That's called a lottery. We can just choose every BG place by random draw, and that would be completely fair, if we decide the definition of "fair" is "everyone has an equal chance to succeed."

    But in a competition, that is not the definition of fair. The definition of fair is everyone has an equal and unbiased opportunity to advance to the degree their competitive strength will allow.

    Besides, these days a one million account means you started yesterday. I don't expect any such player to get to GC. I don't expect them to be able to find the front door to their house to leave in the morning. But I described how I was able to get a very mid Cav account into GC that had, at the time, less than two million rating. It isn't easy, but if I can do it, I'm pretty sure the players with far more skill than I have can do it also. It isn't impossible, and it doesn't require superhuman skill, time, or spending.
    So does this mean the FIRST important thing in BG is roster strength, not skills right? Imagine a match between Pacciao vs Vladimir Klitsko! Both have very good skills, but how long do you thing Pacciao can stand still? Do the audience want to see this kind of match? Do the boxer themselves want this match happen as well?
    Manny Pacquiao would never fight Vladimir Klitschko for the same belt cause of weight difference, you on the other hand are competing against other players for the exact same rewards. What part of that are you unable to understand? Lol
    That’s why I suggest put different reward base on different title progression as well! That’s the perfect system, no complains about ridiculous match anymore
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    BringPopcornBringPopcorn Posts: 3,330 ★★★★★
    DarkNightRise said:

    ItsClobberinTime said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    DNA3000 said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    DNA3000 said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    My alt account is 1m7 rating but I consider myself decent skills so I still usually end up Vibranium. The annoying thing is I can beat those over 3m account but stand no chance when facing those Valiant 5m account and this matchup is already happen from Pla2.

    My point is that anyone that starts in P2 must have been able to promote from P2 in the previous season. So arguing that a player that starts in P2 has some weird disadvantage due to the way match making works that makes playing BG impossible is illogical.
    I just want your solution how to solve my case? Even Beroman or any top tier BG can’t promote from Pla2 with a 1m7 account! So do I just need to wait until the end of season to PLAY BG? I understand that there is no absolutely fair match, but at least reasonable for VC. I got so many match with over 5m Valiant account mean while I’m new paragon! Wtf is that!!!
    The question you're asking boils down to: how can weaker players consistently beat stronger ones. And the answer is: they can't, nor should they.

    Fairness is not about giving everyone an equal chance to enter GC or an equal chance to place #1. That's called a lottery. We can just choose every BG place by random draw, and that would be completely fair, if we decide the definition of "fair" is "everyone has an equal chance to succeed."

    But in a competition, that is not the definition of fair. The definition of fair is everyone has an equal and unbiased opportunity to advance to the degree their competitive strength will allow.

    Besides, these days a one million account means you started yesterday. I don't expect any such player to get to GC. I don't expect them to be able to find the front door to their house to leave in the morning. But I described how I was able to get a very mid Cav account into GC that had, at the time, less than two million rating. It isn't easy, but if I can do it, I'm pretty sure the players with far more skill than I have can do it also. It isn't impossible, and it doesn't require superhuman skill, time, or spending.
    So does this mean the FIRST important thing in BG is roster strength, not skills right? Imagine a match between Pacciao vs Vladimir Klitsko! Both have very good skills, but how long do you thing Pacciao can stand still? Do the audience want to see this kind of match? Do the boxer themselves want this match happen as well?
    Manny Pacquiao would never fight Vladimir Klitschko for the same belt cause of weight difference, you on the other hand are competing against other players for the exact same rewards. What part of that are you unable to understand? Lol
    That’s why I suggest put different reward base on different title progression as well! That’s the perfect system, no complains about ridiculous match anymore
    Not worth of the time to make just because people cry about it.
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    Wicket329Wicket329 Posts: 3,174 ★★★★★
    DarkNightRise said:

    ItsClobberinTime said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    DNA3000 said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    DNA3000 said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    My alt account is 1m7 rating but I consider myself decent skills so I still usually end up Vibranium. The annoying thing is I can beat those over 3m account but stand no chance when facing those Valiant 5m account and this matchup is already happen from Pla2.

    My point is that anyone that starts in P2 must have been able to promote from P2 in the previous season. So arguing that a player that starts in P2 has some weird disadvantage due to the way match making works that makes playing BG impossible is illogical.
    I just want your solution how to solve my case? Even Beroman or any top tier BG can’t promote from Pla2 with a 1m7 account! So do I just need to wait until the end of season to PLAY BG? I understand that there is no absolutely fair match, but at least reasonable for VC. I got so many match with over 5m Valiant account mean while I’m new paragon! Wtf is that!!!
    The question you're asking boils down to: how can weaker players consistently beat stronger ones. And the answer is: they can't, nor should they.

    Fairness is not about giving everyone an equal chance to enter GC or an equal chance to place #1. That's called a lottery. We can just choose every BG place by random draw, and that would be completely fair, if we decide the definition of "fair" is "everyone has an equal chance to succeed."

    But in a competition, that is not the definition of fair. The definition of fair is everyone has an equal and unbiased opportunity to advance to the degree their competitive strength will allow.

    Besides, these days a one million account means you started yesterday. I don't expect any such player to get to GC. I don't expect them to be able to find the front door to their house to leave in the morning. But I described how I was able to get a very mid Cav account into GC that had, at the time, less than two million rating. It isn't easy, but if I can do it, I'm pretty sure the players with far more skill than I have can do it also. It isn't impossible, and it doesn't require superhuman skill, time, or spending.
    So does this mean the FIRST important thing in BG is roster strength, not skills right? Imagine a match between Pacciao vs Vladimir Klitsko! Both have very good skills, but how long do you thing Pacciao can stand still? Do the audience want to see this kind of match? Do the boxer themselves want this match happen as well?
    Manny Pacquiao would never fight Vladimir Klitschko for the same belt cause of weight difference, you on the other hand are competing against other players for the exact same rewards. What part of that are you unable to understand? Lol
    That’s why I suggest put different reward base on different title progression as well! That’s the perfect system, no complains about ridiculous match anymore
    How would you handle title advancement mid-season?

    How would you balance rewards? You would need for the best rewards for a Cavalier player to be worse than the worst rewards for a Thronebreaker. Otherwise you’re creating a system which incentivizes lagging behind and not progressing.

    There are so many issues with your proposed system. It is not perfect by any stretch of the word.
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    NightheartNightheart Posts: 1,352 ★★★★
    Boy this thread has escalated quickly. Anyone wants popcorn and fries? 🍟
This discussion has been closed.