You know… I foolishly was hopeful after the post yesterday but it’s worse than ever. 4 matches in a row of passive AI that’s faster than me and has attacks that are effectively cover twice the space they used too.
It’s worse than it was. And I’m starting to give up hope and interest. This sucks. It’s my favorite meta in my favorite game mode and not only is it no longer fun but I’m getting tired of even trying to find the fun.
Hear you on the frustration, but just to confirm so I can make sure our feedback is accurate for the rest of the team, are you saying that you feel that now post yesterday's change the AI is faster and covering more ground than before yesterday? Or it is still doing the same amount but more frequently? Or the change didn't seem to affect how the game feels? Thank you for any specifics you can provide!
Thanks Pinwheel, I appreciate the efforts here and have been a big fan of your communication style and approach on the forums. I’ll bullet my feedback:
- AI passivity feels the same to me. Lots of dash back and holding block. It’s very challenging to get it to engage or attack. I find myself having to hold block to get it to walk in and throw a heavy in the GC which is just a frustrating experience in a meta that should be a faster and more aggressive rate of play. - Due to the dash back and block nature getting parried by blocks faster than frames has been a subsequent pain point additionally the range of the defender attacks seems to have grown in distance and speed as well. It’s like the effective range of their light is twice the range of mine. I’m commonly getting clipped by light attacks after I dex out of medium and try to dex out of a follow up attack. The rate of the attacks is faster than I’m allowed to Dex. - The AIs use of light attack spamming to close distance is more frequent… which would be cool if it was the same speed as my own and I could punish an errant strike but due to the larger effective range of their strikes and quickness of them that’s just not feasible… still the AI has no trouble at all punishes my light whiffs
If anything this rollback feels worse than the AI I experienced in the update. Which while it had some of these problems, the quickness and range did not seem as exaggerated
Concur. My usual test of AI is Titania heavy on round start. AI changed dramatically when they started dexing out of Titania's heavy (which it's still doing).
You know… I foolishly was hopeful after the post yesterday but it’s worse than ever. 4 matches in a row of passive AI that’s faster than me and has attacks that are effectively cover twice the space they used too.
It’s worse than it was. And I’m starting to give up hope and interest. This sucks. It’s my favorite meta in my favorite game mode and not only is it no longer fun but I’m getting tired of even trying to find the fun.
Hear you on the frustration, but just to confirm so I can make sure our feedback is accurate for the rest of the team, are you saying that you feel that now post yesterday's change the AI is faster and covering more ground than before yesterday? Or it is still doing the same amount but more frequently? Or the change didn't seem to affect how the game feels? Thank you for any specifics you can provide!
Thanks Pinwheel, I appreciate the efforts here and have been a big fan of your communication style and approach on the forums. I’ll bullet my feedback:
- AI passivity feels the same to me. Lots of dash back and holding block. It’s very challenging to get it to engage or attack. I find myself having to hold block to get it to walk in and throw a heavy in the GC which is just a frustrating experience in a meta that should be a faster and more aggressive rate of play. - Due to the dash back and block nature getting parried by blocks faster than frames has been a subsequent pain point additionally the range of the defender attacks seems to have grown in distance and speed as well. It’s like the effective range of their light is twice the range of mine. I’m commonly getting clipped by light attacks after I dex out of medium and try to dex out of a follow up attack. The rate of the attacks is faster than I’m allowed to Dex. - The AIs use of light attack spamming to close distance is more frequent… which would be cool if it was the same speed as my own and I could punish an errant strike but due to the larger effective range of their strikes and quickness of them that’s just not feasible… still the AI has no trouble at all punishes my light whiffs
If anything this rollback feels worse than the AI I experienced in the update. Which while it had some of these problems, the quickness and range did not seem as exaggerated
Concur. My usual test of AI is Titania heavy on round start. AI changed dramatically when they started dexing out of Titania's heavy (which it's still doing).
Yeah at round the time the AI was able to phantom miss that first hit is when AI really started getting worse. Still don’t understand why that first hit at round start whiffs hard now
You know… I foolishly was hopeful after the post yesterday but it’s worse than ever. 4 matches in a row of passive AI that’s faster than me and has attacks that are effectively cover twice the space they used too.
It’s worse than it was. And I’m starting to give up hope and interest. This sucks. It’s my favorite meta in my favorite game mode and not only is it no longer fun but I’m getting tired of even trying to find the fun.
Just tiresome attempting to bait specials over and over and over…
Dr. Zola
It's horrible everywhere. Just a while back experienced over a minute baiting specials in battlegrounds and timed out.
Also, defenders these days seem to come out of stuns much quicker or remain stunned long enough for you to rush in so they can hit you.
They're messing up gameplay by supercharging the AI. Anything else they say just isn't selling anymore, in more ways than one.
I'm kind of curious as to why with the passive AI they keep designing game modes around power gain. For instance, to design two consecutive BG seasons around a power gain mechanic when you know the AI is extremely passive doesn't seem to be a real nice move on the game team's part. Maybe limit how much power gain type nodes show up until you figure out how to program a willingness to throw SPs into the AI.
Those things in tandem pretty much tells you what this whole sham really is.
I’ve never had such a passive ai throw specials so willy nilly. Blocking no longer keeps the ai from throwing specials AT ALL but getting then dash at you is like hitting the lottery. Great battleground meta highlighting the terrible ai. Talk about salt on the wound..
Are you sure you made any change to the AI? It's still pulling the same shenanigans (light intercept, shallow evade into full combo, lightning recovery, launching SP while still in the middle of getting up after a knock down, etc). I saw the post on top of the forum but I'm puzzled... What has changed?
Got a real painful experience this evening with Moleman in the SoS.
I concur with Elthan's post above mine. I am still experiencing ALL of those issues they listed today just as I have the past month(s). From my end, nothing feels different. Still having the incredibly passive AI, the light intercepts up the wazoo, the recovery time which was the main thing acknowledged by Dorky I think.
All kabam did is lie, they doesn't fix anything and only makes the AIs worse. BG has become a skill place to a place your win/lose are based on the mercy of the AI
@Kabam Pinwheel As requested, I have a specific piece of feedback for you, related to @Kabam Crashed 's point about AI recovery time.
It appears that it is no longer possible to reliably punish Serpent's SP2. Specifically, I tested and verified this with America Chavez.
In the past, you could get in position to punish Serpent's SP2 by dashing in while he was opening the rift, which put you as close as possible to him. You then block the next three attacks, and are then in range for a medium attack (though not a light) before he could recover.
Now, even from right next to him, Serpent is able to dex or block this attack.
I tested this in practice mode with America after getting burned on it several times in BGs (and losing matches as a result, sadly). I am still able to dash in during the SP2 normally, of course. But after I block the final attack and rush in as fast as possible, Serpent is now either dexing away or -- even worse -- snap-blocking my attack, triggering parry, and leaving me open to a full combo.
In my tests in practice mode, I successfully punished about half the time, and the other half of the time I got dexed or parried. I am confident that I am rushing in as fast as possible - I'm even resorting to frantically swiping right as soon as the last hit is blocked to "queue up" the quickest dash attack possible.
I don't know if my device matters, but I'm using a samsung galaxy s20. On my device, it's very repeatable.
I don't know if this issue was specifically introduced in the most recent build of code, but it's a very clear case where there is simply no window available to punish a special, even when you're standing right next to the hero when they finish their last hit of the special animation. I can't imagine this is intended behavior. And it's not hard to see how this takes the most difficult defender in the game and makes him even harder to fight.
The AI is the worst I’ve seen in a while.. It’s made BG very frustrating for me atp. The necessity of intercepting in order to do any damage with AI that refuses to dash toward you, parries or immediately light intercepts you when you dash, and holds specials is crazy. I had AI parry my relic coming straight out of a 5 hit combo as I’ve done a thousand times before. Straight up parried it and destroyed me taking the 90% health I had left with 1 special. Ridiculous.
@Kabam Pinwheel As requested, I have a specific piece of feedback for you, related to @Kabam Crashed 's point about AI recovery time.
It appears that it is no longer possible to reliably punish Serpent's SP2. Specifically, I tested and verified this with America Chavez.
In the past, you could get in position to punish Serpent's SP2 by dashing in while he was opening the rift, which put you as close as possible to him. You then block the next three attacks, and are then in range for a medium attack (though not a light) before he could recover.
Now, even from right next to him, Serpent is able to dex or block this attack.
I tested this in practice mode with America after getting burned on it several times in BGs (and losing matches as a result, sadly). I am still able to dash in during the SP2 normally, of course. But after I block the final attack and rush in as fast as possible, Serpent is now either dexing away or -- even worse -- snap-blocking my attack, triggering parry, and leaving me open to a full combo.
In my tests in practice mode, I successfully punished about half the time, and the other half of the time I got dexed or parried. I am confident that I am rushing in as fast as possible - I'm even resorting to frantically swiping right as soon as the last hit is blocked to "queue up" the quickest dash attack possible.
I don't know if my device matters, but I'm using a samsung galaxy s20. On my device, it's very repeatable.
I don't know if this issue was specifically introduced in the most recent build of code, but it's a very clear case where there is simply no window available to punish a special, even when you're standing right next to the hero when they finish their last hit of the special animation. I can't imagine this is intended behavior. And it's not hard to see how this takes the most difficult defender in the game and makes him even harder to fight.
Same case with Bishop sp1, usually we can punish that after dexing his final shot but now we can't anymore
@Kabam Pinwheel As requested, I have a specific piece of feedback for you, related to @Kabam Crashed 's point about AI recovery time.
It appears that it is no longer possible to reliably punish Serpent's SP2. Specifically, I tested and verified this with America Chavez.
In the past, you could get in position to punish Serpent's SP2 by dashing in while he was opening the rift, which put you as close as possible to him. You then block the next three attacks, and are then in range for a medium attack (though not a light) before he could recover.
Now, even from right next to him, Serpent is able to dex or block this attack.
I tested this in practice mode with America after getting burned on it several times in BGs (and losing matches as a result, sadly). I am still able to dash in during the SP2 normally, of course. But after I block the final attack and rush in as fast as possible, Serpent is now either dexing away or -- even worse -- snap-blocking my attack, triggering parry, and leaving me open to a full combo.
In my tests in practice mode, I successfully punished about half the time, and the other half of the time I got dexed or parried. I am confident that I am rushing in as fast as possible - I'm even resorting to frantically swiping right as soon as the last hit is blocked to "queue up" the quickest dash attack possible.
I don't know if my device matters, but I'm using a samsung galaxy s20. On my device, it's very repeatable.
I don't know if this issue was specifically introduced in the most recent build of code, but it's a very clear case where there is simply no window available to punish a special, even when you're standing right next to the hero when they finish their last hit of the special animation. I can't imagine this is intended behavior. And it's not hard to see how this takes the most difficult defender in the game and makes him even harder to fight.
My sense is (and I don’t conclusively know this) that this is true for a lot of cases. For example something as simple as hitting back after a five hit combo by any champ now results in a parry/dex at least 20% of the time. I have lost confidence in a whole lot of rotations I used to do very well earlier. Like 4 hit dash back intercepts used to b a staple some time back. Now I just do 4 hit dash back block and hope for a parry which happens about 20% of the time because other 80% the AI just stays back chilling. Can’t remember the last time I played scorpion or spot the way they were intended to. AI almost never dashes while u r charging scorpion’s heavy. It almost never hits on spot’s portal block except with a heavy.
The only safe rotations I feel we have left is parry combo and dex and punish specials.
I'm not the one that asks for compensation every time something goes wrong but hear me out on this. I think it's in bad taste to be selling revives and potions bundles when already acknowledging there are issues with the AI which are the reason for more than half the consumables cost without offering a compensation. It's fine to sell the bundle but it should be accompanied by compensation that includes revives and potions too. Energy refills would be nice too to account for players that are either quitting quests out of frustration, running out of consumables or units or want to play perfectly without using any revives (the solo enthusiasts).
Offers are fine for the extra consumables or are on the player but please account for consumables that are not the players' fault but due to the AI. And the AI is Kabam's responsibility.
I'm not the one that asks for compensation every time something goes wrong but hear me out on this. I think it's in bad taste to be selling revives and potions bundles when already acknowledging there are issues with the AI which are the reason for more than half the consumables cost without offering a compensation. It's fine to sell the bundle but it should be accompanied by compensation that includes revives and potions too. Energy refills would be nice too to account for players that are either quitting quests out of frustration, running out of consumables or units or want to play perfectly without using any revives (the solo enthusiasts).
Offers are fine for the extra consumables or are on the player but please account for consumables that are not the players' fault but due to the AI. And the AI is Kabam's responsibility.
Another case in point (or point in case) that all these AI issues are intentional. Our NI (natural intelligence) to see through disconnects in statements and lies is coming through.
You know… I foolishly was hopeful after the post yesterday but it’s worse than ever. 4 matches in a row of passive AI that’s faster than me and has attacks that are effectively cover twice the space they used too.
It’s worse than it was. And I’m starting to give up hope and interest. This sucks. It’s my favorite meta in my favorite game mode and not only is it no longer fun but I’m getting tired of even trying to find the fun.
Hear you on the frustration, but just to confirm so I can make sure our feedback is accurate for the rest of the team, are you saying that you feel that now post yesterday's change the AI is faster and covering more ground than before yesterday? Or it is still doing the same amount but more frequently? Or the change didn't seem to affect how the game feels? Thank you for any specifics you can provide!
Thanks Pinwheel, I appreciate the efforts here and have been a big fan of your communication style and approach on the forums. I’ll bullet my feedback:
- AI passivity feels the same to me. Lots of dash back and holding block. It’s very challenging to get it to engage or attack. I find myself having to hold block to get it to walk in and throw a heavy in the GC which is just a frustrating experience in a meta that should be a faster and more aggressive rate of play. - Due to the dash back and block nature getting parried by blocks faster than frames has been a subsequent pain point additionally the range of the defender attacks seems to have grown in distance and speed as well. It’s like the effective range of their light is twice the range of mine. I’m commonly getting clipped by light attacks after I dex out of medium and try to dex out of a follow up attack. The rate of the attacks is faster than I’m allowed to Dex. - The AIs use of light attack spamming to close distance is more frequent… which would be cool if it was the same speed as my own and I could punish an errant strike but due to the larger effective range of their strikes and quickness of them that’s just not feasible… still the AI has no trouble at all punishes my light whiffs
If anything this rollback feels worse than the AI I experienced in the update. Which while it had some of these problems, the quickness and range did not seem as exaggerated
Appreciate it, just doing what I can to give the forums some attention haha. And thank you for the bullets! Can pass this along to the team and keep it in mind. Yesterdays change was definitely not the last update or change to "AI", so really appreciate this level of feedback!
Not that I was expecting an improvement but yeah it still is not fun
I was just parried while unblockable as Adam Warlock… is that possible? Also, I had a relic get parried after I finished a combo as I usually do. lol what is going on here?!
I'm not the one that asks for compensation every time something goes wrong but hear me out on this. I think it's in bad taste to be selling revives and potions bundles when already acknowledging there are issues with the AI which are the reason for more than half the consumables cost without offering a compensation. It's fine to sell the bundle but it should be accompanied by compensation that includes revives and potions too. Energy refills would be nice too to account for players that are either quitting quests out of frustration, running out of consumables or units or want to play perfectly without using any revives (the solo enthusiasts).
Offers are fine for the extra consumables or are on the player but please account for consumables that are not the players' fault but due to the AI. And the AI is Kabam's responsibility.
Another case in point (or point in case) that all these AI issues are intentional. Our NI (natural intelligence) to see through disconnects in statements and lies is coming through.
This is some tinfoil hat logic if I've ever heard it
The AI in aw is actually unbearable. When doing story, eq,sq, the ai situation is annoying, but ok because atleast those areas of the game are not as important, but when it comes to battlegrounds, AQ raids, or AW, the ai just sits, and holds, will not throw their specials, you can watch all the lagacy baiting videos, and they won't change anything, the AI need's to be fixed, because the game is starting to become unplayable in areas where it actually matters. @KabamDORK please relay all of our messages to the game team.
The AI in aw is actually unbearable. When doing story, eq,sq, the ai situation is annoying, but ok because atleast those areas of the game are not as important, but when it comes to battlegrounds, AQ raids, or AW, the ai just sits, and holds, will not throw their specials, you can watch all the lagacy baiting videos, and they won't change anything, the AI need's to be fixed, because the game is starting to become unplayable in areas where it actually matters. @KabamDORK please relay all of our messages to the game team.
@Kabam Pinwheel As requested, I have a specific piece of feedback for you, related to @Kabam Crashed 's point about AI recovery time.
It appears that it is no longer possible to reliably punish Serpent's SP2. Specifically, I tested and verified this with America Chavez.
In the past, you could get in position to punish Serpent's SP2 by dashing in while he was opening the rift, which put you as close as possible to him. You then block the next three attacks, and are then in range for a medium attack (though not a light) before he could recover.
Now, even from right next to him, Serpent is able to dex or block this attack.
I tested this in practice mode with America after getting burned on it several times in BGs (and losing matches as a result, sadly). I am still able to dash in during the SP2 normally, of course. But after I block the final attack and rush in as fast as possible, Serpent is now either dexing away or -- even worse -- snap-blocking my attack, triggering parry, and leaving me open to a full combo.
In my tests in practice mode, I successfully punished about half the time, and the other half of the time I got dexed or parried. I am confident that I am rushing in as fast as possible - I'm even resorting to frantically swiping right as soon as the last hit is blocked to "queue up" the quickest dash attack possible.
I don't know if my device matters, but I'm using a samsung galaxy s20. On my device, it's very repeatable.
I don't know if this issue was specifically introduced in the most recent build of code, but it's a very clear case where there is simply no window available to punish a special, even when you're standing right next to the hero when they finish their last hit of the special animation. I can't imagine this is intended behavior. And it's not hard to see how this takes the most difficult defender in the game and makes him even harder to fight.
The AI in aw is actually unbearable. When doing story, eq,sq, the ai situation is annoying, but ok because atleast those areas of the game are not as important, but when it comes to battlegrounds, AQ raids, or AW, the ai just sits, and holds, will not throw their specials, you can watch all the lagacy baiting videos, and they won't change anything, the AI need's to be fixed, because the game is starting to become unplayable in areas where it actually matters. @KabamDORK please relay all of our messages to the game team.
Certainly following this thread and collecting the feedback, absolutely being passed along to the team. This is something Dork and Rex and I are absolutely treating as a priority in terms of community feedback/pain points/issues
Comments
But that would mean admitting error…
Dr. Zola
Also, defenders these days seem to come out of stuns much quicker or remain stunned long enough for you to rush in so they can hit you.
They're messing up gameplay by supercharging the AI. Anything else they say just isn't selling anymore, in more ways than one.
Got a real painful experience this evening with Moleman in the SoS.
It appears that it is no longer possible to reliably punish Serpent's SP2. Specifically, I tested and verified this with America Chavez.
In the past, you could get in position to punish Serpent's SP2 by dashing in while he was opening the rift, which put you as close as possible to him. You then block the next three attacks, and are then in range for a medium attack (though not a light) before he could recover.
Now, even from right next to him, Serpent is able to dex or block this attack.
I tested this in practice mode with America after getting burned on it several times in BGs (and losing matches as a result, sadly). I am still able to dash in during the SP2 normally, of course. But after I block the final attack and rush in as fast as possible, Serpent is now either dexing away or -- even worse -- snap-blocking my attack, triggering parry, and leaving me open to a full combo.
In my tests in practice mode, I successfully punished about half the time, and the other half of the time I got dexed or parried. I am confident that I am rushing in as fast as possible - I'm even resorting to frantically swiping right as soon as the last hit is blocked to "queue up" the quickest dash attack possible.
I don't know if my device matters, but I'm using a samsung galaxy s20. On my device, it's very repeatable.
I don't know if this issue was specifically introduced in the most recent build of code, but it's a very clear case where there is simply no window available to punish a special, even when you're standing right next to the hero when they finish their last hit of the special animation. I can't imagine this is intended behavior. And it's not hard to see how this takes the most difficult defender in the game and makes him even harder to fight.
The only safe rotations I feel we have left is parry combo and dex and punish specials.
Offers are fine for the extra consumables or are on the player but please account for consumables that are not the players' fault but due to the AI. And the AI is Kabam's responsibility.
Really admire the AI skills.
Dr. Zola