Serpent Really Isn’t Getting Rebalanced?

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Comments

  • Mirac1eMirac1e Member Posts: 49
    smdam38 said:


    smdam38 said:

    Are people still beating him? Yes.
    Is he overpowered? Probably also Yes.

    Lagacy vid showed him beating him with over 40k in battlegrounds. How is that bad?

    You think 40k points is good? Do you play in bronze 3 or something?
    First of all, I said OVER 40k points.

    Second of all, I don’t play that game mode at all.
    explains
  • EdisonLawEdisonLaw Member Posts: 7,951 ★★★★★

    Fighting Serpent is just awful. It's like he's an EoP fight in non EoP modes.

    Anytime I see him now in BG it's an instant ban even unduped. It's just not worth tailoring my deck specifically around him. You need 4 counters to him (kushala, america, SS, wiccan) so that if your 3 get banned you still have 1 left. Only you might not get that champ due to rng of the draft. Just easier to ban him and not worry about it.

    Imagine if we see him as the last SoS boss
  • EdisonLawEdisonLaw Member Posts: 7,951 ★★★★★
    19 pages already, I wonder how long this will continue to last
  • ESFESF Member Posts: 2,037 ★★★★★
    BigBlueOx said:

    ESF said:

    Y’all are gonna laugh — and to be clear, I haven’t tested it yet live in BGs, but it really should work — but credit where credit is due if it’s intentional by the designer (it probably is, I have a feeling) but classic mythology might give you another kill option if you don’t have a Kushala or Chavez or aren’t quite skilled enough at playing Tigra.

    See, in classic mythology, the Serpent is ultimately killed in Ragnarok…by…well. You know. (It’s a mutual defeat; he dies from his wounds almost immediately).

    Well, guess what? I kinda thought this guy could do it, before this season even started, because of….this:



    I even had him in my Battledeck during the offseason and the first couple of days of the actual season.

    Who am I talking about?

    LOLOLOLOL You know who I am talking about:



    The problem is the same as with almost every other kit, though: time. It’s not fast. You gotta pop the SP3, you gotta get those shocks up. You gotta be aggressive and not get your head lopped off with that big axe of the Serpent’s during his specials while doing it because of being so freaking close.

    But it works, if you have enough shocks — and you usually will, in Thunder God’s Wrath and you get in there, because you get the stuns, too. Instant kill, when Serpent tries to stay alive AFTER he procs it.

    Again: It’s not fast. You gotta know what you’re doing, pop Thunder God’s Wrath at the right time. It requires you to have some skill.

    But it works.

    Shout out to the Developer — I had a feeling that it would work, and I have a feeling it was intentional. That’s nice.

    Ok. I’ll definitely give a tip of the cap to this. Thats a cool Easter eggy interaction. Too bad for me that old T-Rex arms might be my least favorite champ they’ve ever released. And rather use anyone else, including Blue Cyclops as he exists now
    LOL I also have a feeling, if Truth Serum was administered to all involved, the fact that a ton of players dislike T-Rex Arms 😅😅 also amused a few people at Kabam HQ, because if you don’t have a Kushala yet, and Chavez and Tigra are tricky enough to keep you from getting him down…LOL

    Why…why won’t they just give him a more dignified model? WHY?!?! 😅😅😅
  • smdam38smdam38 Member Posts: 1,477 ★★★

    smdam38 said:


    smdam38 said:

    Are people still beating him? Yes.
    Is he overpowered? Probably also Yes.

    Lagacy vid showed him beating him with over 40k in battlegrounds. How is that bad?

    You think 40k points is good? Do you play in bronze 3 or something?
    First of all, I said OVER 40k points.

    Second of all, I don’t play that game mode at all.
    Oh we can tell, trust me. Maybe go try it out for yourself before saying he doesn't need a nerf then?
    I trust you man lol.

    I’m on the nerf side goofy. Even though it affects me absolutely zero.

    I still support the players.
  • BigBlueOxBigBlueOx Member Posts: 2,421 ★★★★★

    BigBlueOx said:

    The problem with him is that without a counter there is no skilling your way around him.

    Sure there are little things you can do like saving your striker for death immunity of parrying as much of the special as possible, but neither of those things are going to be all that consequential 90% of the time

    Spot on. Serpent is a defender who invalidates skill. You can learn to dex onslaught's sp1, push photon into pure light at zero power, light intercept korg. Atleast when I lose to these, I still respect them as it pushes me to develop my skill further. What does serpent require me to do? Dash back and turtle up to take specials.
    I mean that’s the pinnacle of skill according to all the people thinking “git gud” is the answer to this one
  • smdam38smdam38 Member Posts: 1,477 ★★★
    Very good point.
  • EdisonLawEdisonLaw Member Posts: 7,951 ★★★★★
    Emilia90 said:

    BigBlueOx said:

    BigBlueOx said:

    The problem with him is that without a counter there is no skilling your way around him.

    Sure there are little things you can do like saving your striker for death immunity of parrying as much of the special as possible, but neither of those things are going to be all that consequential 90% of the time

    Spot on. Serpent is a defender who invalidates skill. You can learn to dex onslaught's sp1, push photon into pure light at zero power, light intercept korg. Atleast when I lose to these, I still respect them as it pushes me to develop my skill further. What does serpent require me to do? Dash back and turtle up to take specials.
    I mean that’s the pinnacle of skill according to all the people thinking “git gud” is the answer to this one
    Why aren’t there ever any videos coming from the devs on how to counter these champs. People have defended them and said they are skilled. Okay so I want to see videos of them taking Serpent in extend. Or in rich get richer. Or Archaos. Show us livestreams of them doing these fights and showcasing the skills we need to counter Serpent. Because they said it themselves it takes skilled gameplay to counter him. And if the response really is “everyone is supposed to die, that’s the goal of this champ” then wow is that the most toxic thing ever for this game.
    I definitely think that’s the goal lmao. New toxic defender and they said they’d stop doing hard counters for a while so while we may get good options, we’ll have to wait a while

    If there are a bunch of mystics coming this year like spiral then we could hopefully see some good options for him before the end of the year but that might be too optimistic
    Then they’re milking the whales then
  • ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Member Posts: 5,444 ★★★★★
    Emilia90 said:

    BigBlueOx said:

    BigBlueOx said:

    The problem with him is that without a counter there is no skilling your way around him.

    Sure there are little things you can do like saving your striker for death immunity of parrying as much of the special as possible, but neither of those things are going to be all that consequential 90% of the time

    Spot on. Serpent is a defender who invalidates skill. You can learn to dex onslaught's sp1, push photon into pure light at zero power, light intercept korg. Atleast when I lose to these, I still respect them as it pushes me to develop my skill further. What does serpent require me to do? Dash back and turtle up to take specials.
    I mean that’s the pinnacle of skill according to all the people thinking “git gud” is the answer to this one
    Why aren’t there ever any videos coming from the devs on how to counter these champs. People have defended them and said they are skilled. Okay so I want to see videos of them taking Serpent in extend. Or in rich get richer. Or Archaos. Show us livestreams of them doing these fights and showcasing the skills we need to counter Serpent. Because they said it themselves it takes skilled gameplay to counter him. And if the response really is “everyone is supposed to die, that’s the goal of this champ” then wow is that the most toxic thing ever for this game.
    I definitely think that’s the goal lmao. New toxic defender and they said they’d stop doing hard counters for a while so while we may get good options, we’ll have to wait a while

    If there are a bunch of mystics coming this year like spiral then we could hopefully see some good options for him before the end of the year but that might be too optimistic
    I think it's a lot more likely that they'll release counters from other classes rather than mystic ones exclusively.
    For example if Dani's damage wasn't burst and crit reliant she would be a great counter, same thing for Luke he wouldn't be as slow if he could deal more damage.
  • BigBlueOxBigBlueOx Member Posts: 2,421 ★★★★★
    edited September 3

    Emilia90 said:

    BigBlueOx said:

    BigBlueOx said:

    The problem with him is that without a counter there is no skilling your way around him.

    Sure there are little things you can do like saving your striker for death immunity of parrying as much of the special as possible, but neither of those things are going to be all that consequential 90% of the time

    Spot on. Serpent is a defender who invalidates skill. You can learn to dex onslaught's sp1, push photon into pure light at zero power, light intercept korg. Atleast when I lose to these, I still respect them as it pushes me to develop my skill further. What does serpent require me to do? Dash back and turtle up to take specials.
    I mean that’s the pinnacle of skill according to all the people thinking “git gud” is the answer to this one
    Why aren’t there ever any videos coming from the devs on how to counter these champs. People have defended them and said they are skilled. Okay so I want to see videos of them taking Serpent in extend. Or in rich get richer. Or Archaos. Show us livestreams of them doing these fights and showcasing the skills we need to counter Serpent. Because they said it themselves it takes skilled gameplay to counter him. And if the response really is “everyone is supposed to die, that’s the goal of this champ” then wow is that the most toxic thing ever for this game.
    I definitely think that’s the goal lmao. New toxic defender and they said they’d stop doing hard counters for a while so while we may get good options, we’ll have to wait a while

    If there are a bunch of mystics coming this year like spiral then we could hopefully see some good options for him before the end of the year but that might be too optimistic
    I think it's a lot more likely that they'll release counters from other classes rather than mystic ones exclusively.
    For example if Dani's damage wasn't burst and crit reliant she would be a great counter, same thing for Luke he wouldn't be as slow if he could deal more damage.
    There’s that troublesome element of hit kit, where non-mystics are immediately handicapped vs him though that really makes it hard to truly counter him outside of class relationships. That alone severely restricted our options.

    If that was adjusted to simply say his power gain can not be inverted below 0 by non-mystics it would open up alot more options
  • EdisonLawEdisonLaw Member Posts: 7,951 ★★★★★

    BigBlueOx said:

    Emilia90 said:

    BigBlueOx said:

    BigBlueOx said:

    The problem with him is that without a counter there is no skilling your way around him.

    Sure there are little things you can do like saving your striker for death immunity of parrying as much of the special as possible, but neither of those things are going to be all that consequential 90% of the time

    Spot on. Serpent is a defender who invalidates skill. You can learn to dex onslaught's sp1, push photon into pure light at zero power, light intercept korg. Atleast when I lose to these, I still respect them as it pushes me to develop my skill further. What does serpent require me to do? Dash back and turtle up to take specials.
    I mean that’s the pinnacle of skill according to all the people thinking “git gud” is the answer to this one
    Why aren’t there ever any videos coming from the devs on how to counter these champs. People have defended them and said they are skilled. Okay so I want to see videos of them taking Serpent in extend. Or in rich get richer. Or Archaos. Show us livestreams of them doing these fights and showcasing the skills we need to counter Serpent. Because they said it themselves it takes skilled gameplay to counter him. And if the response really is “everyone is supposed to die, that’s the goal of this champ” then wow is that the most toxic thing ever for this game.
    I definitely think that’s the goal lmao. New toxic defender and they said they’d stop doing hard counters for a while so while we may get good options, we’ll have to wait a while

    If there are a bunch of mystics coming this year like spiral then we could hopefully see some good options for him before the end of the year but that might be too optimistic
    I think it's a lot more likely that they'll release counters from other classes rather than mystic ones exclusively.
    For example if Dani's damage wasn't burst and crit reliant she would be a great counter, same thing for Luke he wouldn't be as slow if he could deal more damage.
    There’s that troublesome element of hit kit, where non-mystics are immediately handicapped vs him though that really makes it hard to truly counter him outside of class relationships. That alone severely restricted our options.

    If that was adjusted to simply say his power gain can not be inverted below 0 by non-mystics it would open up alot more options
    His kit is just so random. His kit screws over typical mystic abilities but you’re supposed to use mystics to counter him and control his power rate. Even though power is generally controlled by science and tech champs. It almost feels like Serpent should’ve been mystic and he’s superior to other mystics saying they can’t touch him, but science champs should be the ones to counter him. I don’t know this champ is just so bizarre.
    That’s why I call him the defensive Hercules
  • DarkNightRiseDarkNightRise Member Posts: 396 ★★★
    Emilia90 said:

    I hate fighitng Serpent because of that ridiculous power gain, but I don't ban him so I can eventually see which champs are good counters to him. So far, Shuri can manage SOMETIMES because of her ability to block his unblockable specials, and Photon has been one of my best counters (when she's not banned) since she can control his power gain with her Petrify debuffs. I was able to get him down to 1% health with her, then I screwed it all up 😂

    I honestly believe that Spiral is going to be the hard counter to him.

    DLL already said they don't want hard counters that make a specific defender a potato no matter how strong they are lol no Galan vs Peni ever again.
    The discord is going crazy rn lol. They’re fuming
    Do they response on Discord or just keep silence like here forum?
  • ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Member Posts: 5,444 ★★★★★
    BigBlueOx said:

    Emilia90 said:

    BigBlueOx said:

    BigBlueOx said:

    The problem with him is that without a counter there is no skilling your way around him.

    Sure there are little things you can do like saving your striker for death immunity of parrying as much of the special as possible, but neither of those things are going to be all that consequential 90% of the time

    Spot on. Serpent is a defender who invalidates skill. You can learn to dex onslaught's sp1, push photon into pure light at zero power, light intercept korg. Atleast when I lose to these, I still respect them as it pushes me to develop my skill further. What does serpent require me to do? Dash back and turtle up to take specials.
    I mean that’s the pinnacle of skill according to all the people thinking “git gud” is the answer to this one
    Why aren’t there ever any videos coming from the devs on how to counter these champs. People have defended them and said they are skilled. Okay so I want to see videos of them taking Serpent in extend. Or in rich get richer. Or Archaos. Show us livestreams of them doing these fights and showcasing the skills we need to counter Serpent. Because they said it themselves it takes skilled gameplay to counter him. And if the response really is “everyone is supposed to die, that’s the goal of this champ” then wow is that the most toxic thing ever for this game.
    I definitely think that’s the goal lmao. New toxic defender and they said they’d stop doing hard counters for a while so while we may get good options, we’ll have to wait a while

    If there are a bunch of mystics coming this year like spiral then we could hopefully see some good options for him before the end of the year but that might be too optimistic
    I think it's a lot more likely that they'll release counters from other classes rather than mystic ones exclusively.
    For example if Dani's damage wasn't burst and crit reliant she would be a great counter, same thing for Luke he wouldn't be as slow if he could deal more damage.
    There’s that troublesome element of hit kit, where non-mystics are immediately handicapped vs him though that really makes it hard to truly counter him outside of class relationships. That alone severely restricted our options.

    If that was adjusted to simply say his power gain can not be inverted below 0 by non-mystics it would open up alot more options
    Realistically though we just need them to have dot, if Dani and Luke dealt damage through dot they would be able to nuke Serpent pretty easily so while I do agree either the death immunity buff or the power gain have to be addressed (at least one of them) that main problem is that stupid dread. That's the only reason he's so tanky but anything with massive dot could do the fight.
  • ESFESF Member Posts: 2,037 ★★★★★
    What you see above in the three practice kills of the Serpent with Thor (Ragnarok) is the absolute consistency of the kills — it’s absolutely a rotation. Anyone can do the rotation.

    Again, it’s not easy and it is not fast. But it can be done.

    But not with ANYTHING that helps an already broken kit. My gosh. I cannot believe that kit didn’t get tuned IN ANY WAY
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