Serpent Really Isn’t Getting Rebalanced?

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  • startropicsstartropics Member Posts: 871 ★★★★

    Zuro said:

    What's crazy about all this arguing is that they probably won't change him still and just wait till we all forget and move on lol

    bro everything will be ok.

    y'all acting like some evil villain snuck his way into the company to mess with us lol. solutions will come.
    But they are completely ignoring the thread lmao he's right.
    they don't owe us anything lol

    "yeah hi guys he's a hard defender and as usual we'll have solutions ok thanks bye"

    Where in this whole thread did anyone claim they owe us anything?
    when you say they're ignoring the thread that implies that we should get a response.

    i'm a player like everyone else and his kit is OP so i agree with almost everything said here, but it's not the end of the world.

    we know how the game works:

    problem ---> solution

    so unless we think they're going to skip the other half of this game (which they'd be insane to do), it's going to work out fine.
    No it doesn't, it implies we want a response and they can either give us one or not, and people can either be frustrated due to this (us) or not care about it cause you just take whatever they give you (you).

    Also I don't know why you continue to use that argument when I've said like ten times on this same thread already, DLL pretty much confirmed there will be no hard counters, those days are long gone. The best we will get is something similar to Shathra but that's it.
    no matter how garbage serpent looks right now, i am 99.99% positive that their decision not to nerf him is deliberate, intentional, planned, well thought out, and well reasoned.

    our "frustrations" will be soothed in the future and they won't let us drown. they are not dumb enough to leave us without a life preserver. help is coming.
    I'm not disputing that, of course it was intentional, doesn't however change the fact that it's **** to pull that off just so you can sell counters if people want to be able to enjoy BGs.
    I never buy pre-release bundles however I'm pretty much forced to do so with Shathra if I don't want to get wiped out again and again next meta with rich get richer.

    You say they're not dumb enough yet DLL already quite literally said there will never be a Galan Peni situation where a defender becomes completely irrelevant due to a hard counter.
    i'm not pretending to like serpent. i don't. i'm not prepared to fight him in bgs because i'm not great at deck making and drafting, so i ban him. do i wish he was toned down? yeah, but when was the last time a defender existed in the game with no good counters? let's count.

    while there might not be another hulking/peni situation in the future, there will be GOOD counters and this serpent problem won't be as big as it is now. patience, we've been through this so many times and the game's still here and we're still here.
  • NightheartNightheart Member Posts: 2,114 ★★★★

    So I also asked chatgpt who is the best counter for Serpent lmao the answers 🤣🤣🤣🤣



    The best part is when it says three times that serpent can autoblock. Does Chatgpt think serpent is modok? lol

    Yes I believe that's what chatgpt thinks lmao
  • Fit_Fun9329Fit_Fun9329 Member Posts: 2,183 ★★★★★
    Any responds from mods? Sometimes they forget to use the orange Color for the text. It’s not possible to read everything new here 😅
  • FieryOasisFieryOasis Member Posts: 13
    I wouldn't wanna be in the mods' place right now. They didn't decide on serpent's rebalancing but are left to deal with it's fallout. And while I trust the devs know what they are doing and probably already have more serpent answers in the pipeline, it's frustrating for the players who don't have much else to go on other than "He is working as intended and hits our design goals".

    Eventually, Serpent will probably stabilize but he surely hasn't as of yet, unlike what the balancing post claims.
  • EakomoEakomo Member Posts: 134
    krystolix said:

    We have 7* Serpent but Hercules, Quake, and Magic are never gonna get higher level star releases...make it make sense.

    it's cyclops being an effective aw champ all over again.

    wait ...
    whose getting a major rework again
    yeah cyclops
  • Viper198787Viper198787 Member Posts: 597 ★★★★

    Zuro said:

    What's crazy about all this arguing is that they probably won't change him still and just wait till we all forget and move on lol

    bro everything will be ok.

    y'all acting like some evil villain snuck his way into the company to mess with us lol. solutions will come.
    But they are completely ignoring the thread lmao he's right.
    they don't owe us anything lol

    "yeah hi guys he's a hard defender and as usual we'll have solutions ok thanks bye"

    Where in this whole thread did anyone claim they owe us anything?
    when you say they're ignoring the thread that implies that we should get a response.

    i'm a player like everyone else and his kit is OP so i agree with almost everything said here, but it's not the end of the world.

    we know how the game works:

    problem ---> solution

    so unless we think they're going to skip the other half of this game (which they'd be insane to do), it's going to work out fine.
    No it doesn't, it implies we want a response and they can either give us one or not, and people can either be frustrated due to this (us) or not care about it cause you just take whatever they give you (you).

    Also I don't know why you continue to use that argument when I've said like ten times on this same thread already, DLL pretty much confirmed there will be no hard counters, those days are long gone. The best we will get is something similar to Shathra but that's it.
    no matter how garbage serpent looks right now, i am 99.99% positive that their decision not to nerf him is deliberate, intentional, planned, well thought out, and well reasoned.

    our "frustrations" will be soothed in the future and they won't let us drown. they are not dumb enough to leave us without a life preserver. help is coming.
    I'm not disputing that, of course it was intentional, doesn't however change the fact that it's **** to pull that off just so you can sell counters if people want to be able to enjoy BGs.
    I never buy pre-release bundles however I'm pretty much forced to do so with Shathra if I don't want to get wiped out again and again next meta with rich get richer.

    You say they're not dumb enough yet DLL already quite literally said there will never be a Galan Peni situation where a defender becomes completely irrelevant due to a hard counter.
    i'm not pretending to like serpent. i don't. i'm not prepared to fight him in bgs because i'm not great at deck making and drafting, so i ban him. do i wish he was toned down? yeah, but when was the last time a defender existed in the game with no good counters? let's count.

    while there might not be another hulking/peni situation in the future, there will be GOOD counters and this serpent problem won't be as big as it is now. patience, we've been through this so many times and the game's still here and we're still here.
    There isn’t a single champion who upheaves competitive play in such a way as Serpent though. He is an auto win because there’s simply nobody that can take him down competitively. With every other defender there have been options available to do it. Chavez is okay assuming you have AI cooperation. Kushala is still slow and doesn’t really deal with any of his threats, just slow burns him. And I know people just say “ban him” but that’s not healthy either. I’m just worried how this will snowball. First it was Bullseye, then Serpent. Enchantress is somewhat manageable but what’s next? What happens when 2 champs have to be auto banned. Then 3 just because their abilities are so punishing you can’t deal with it until they release some counter god knows when? Serpent has like 25 defensive abilities. It’s absolutely insane.
  • HungaryHippoHungaryHippo Member Posts: 1,024 ★★★★
    If you don't match a Serpent, of equal rarity, you're losing in GC against a similarly skilled player. I've done a 60 second 100% against an r3 Serpent. I've seen perfect Tigra takedowns lose fairly often too.
  • Mirac1eMirac1e Member Posts: 48

    EdisonLaw said:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7_y4F5ZvkM

    Human Torch actually looks like a decent option (though he takes a lot of block damage). Now if only he was a 7*


    Negative can kill an r3 photon in 20 seconds this meta. Silk could take attuma during sugar pill. Serpent is a defender every meta. If he only works now he isnt a counter
    The actual person who made this vid is capping hard, not to mention judging from his reply to one of the guy's comment, dude doesn't even know that Sui- masteries gives you 60% damage boost
  • KnightNvrEndingKnightNvrEnding Member Posts: 452 ★★★
    Eh I’m the minority here but I think not nerfing him is fine. He’s harder for sure with certain nodes but he’s far from an insurmountable opponent still lol
  • EdisonLawEdisonLaw Member Posts: 7,480 ★★★★★

    Eh I’m the minority here but I think not nerfing him is fine. He’s harder for sure with certain nodes but he’s far from an insurmountable opponent still lol

    Wait until Serpent starts coming to quests. Wait until we have to fight a Serpent with extend, rich get richer, and Lazarus. Then see how much fun you have. And one custom made node just for Serpent that prevents his power from being manipulated in any way.
    Or as a SoS boss. Or in Necropolis 2.0
  • EdisonLawEdisonLaw Member Posts: 7,480 ★★★★★
    BigBlueOx said:

    EdisonLaw said:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7_y4F5ZvkM

    Human Torch actually looks like a decent option (though he takes a lot of block damage). Now if only he was a 7*


    Negative can kill an r3 photon in 20 seconds this meta. Silk could take attuma during sugar pill. Serpent is a defender every meta. If he only works now he isnt a counter
    Brian Grant did a great stream on this that I finally got to watch, where he reacted to Lagacy’s rant on Serpent and he really does a great job further articulating the pain points in the design on top of this thread (as did Lags in his rant).

    BG said something that I thought was great. Serpent has as much going on as a chapter endboss with no nodes going on. If this kit was in story mode and we only saw it there or in boss rushes with some additional nodes the. I don’t think anybody would care. We’d probably even celebrate it. But as soon as you add battlegrounds nodes even a single node can boost him to tiers others just don’t get to enjoy.

    - Vital Strikes - free regen every special, because he wasn’t tanky enough. Better dex those specials, oh wait you can’t 😜

    - Rich get Richer, well really anymore that gives him more power - When 3 sources of power gain and passive AI that prioritizes sp3 isn’t enough, here’s more power. Draft Chavez, Wigra Wiccan, or Sympreme or die. And yes it’s a reasonable expectation of balance to require you to roster 4 champs, hope none of them get banned and give you a 30ish% chance to actually draft one. Oh and if you draft one, chances are you’ll lose anyways regardless of how perfectly you play provided your opponent is equally skilled and doesn’t mess up.

    -Random Unblockable and Crushed effects - make sure you Dex that special! Oh wait, you still can’t

    And then the other take BG had that I think is fully on point, is how is fighting a character that can gain half a bar of power or more during his special animations even that fun to fight? You really only get minuscule windows to actually fight him before you are back to baiting and blocking specials. Outside of all the balance discussions, he’s simply just this weird blend of stressful and boring to fight because of this.
    And I think BG described him perfectly, a champion with a boss designed kit.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,562 ★★★★★

    Zuro said:

    What's crazy about all this arguing is that they probably won't change him still and just wait till we all forget and move on lol

    bro everything will be ok.

    y'all acting like some evil villain snuck his way into the company to mess with us lol. solutions will come.
    But they are completely ignoring the thread lmao he's right.
    they don't owe us anything lol

    "yeah hi guys he's a hard defender and as usual we'll have solutions ok thanks bye"

    Where in this whole thread did anyone claim they owe us anything?
    when you say they're ignoring the thread that implies that we should get a response.

    i'm a player like everyone else and his kit is OP so i agree with almost everything said here, but it's not the end of the world.

    we know how the game works:

    problem ---> solution

    so unless we think they're going to skip the other half of this game (which they'd be insane to do), it's going to work out fine.
    No it doesn't, it implies we want a response and they can either give us one or not, and people can either be frustrated due to this (us) or not care about it cause you just take whatever they give you (you).

    Also I don't know why you continue to use that argument when I've said like ten times on this same thread already, DLL pretty much confirmed there will be no hard counters, those days are long gone. The best we will get is something similar to Shathra but that's it.
    no matter how garbage serpent looks right now, i am 99.99% positive that their decision not to nerf him is deliberate, intentional, planned, well thought out, and well reasoned.

    our "frustrations" will be soothed in the future and they won't let us drown. they are not dumb enough to leave us without a life preserver. help is coming.
    I'm not disputing that, of course it was intentional, doesn't however change the fact that it's **** to pull that off just so you can sell counters if people want to be able to enjoy BGs.
    I never buy pre-release bundles however I'm pretty much forced to do so with Shathra if I don't want to get wiped out again and again next meta with rich get richer.

    You say they're not dumb enough yet DLL already quite literally said there will never be a Galan Peni situation where a defender becomes completely irrelevant due to a hard counter.
    i'm not pretending to like serpent. i don't. i'm not prepared to fight him in bgs because i'm not great at deck making and drafting, so i ban him. do i wish he was toned down? yeah, but when was the last time a defender existed in the game with no good counters? let's count.

    while there might not be another hulking/peni situation in the future, there will be GOOD counters and this serpent problem won't be as big as it is now. patience, we've been through this so many times and the game's still here and we're still here.
    All defenders in the game should have decent counters, even back in the day when Domino Thing and Korg were released there were ways to either counter them with skill alone or kits. There has never been a single defender in the game that had zero good counters, yes I know Chavez this Kushala that etc they're very slow, until we get Shathra there are no true good counters for him and that's simply not fair. Especially if you're doing it to milk future champs even further, it's messed up.

    No we haven't, that's where you and the rest of the people on this thread are wrong. We have never been through this cause there has never been a defender as ridiculously broken as Serpent, even Domino on release when there were no aar immune champs wasn't as broken as this guy.
    When they were released, there were very few counters to them. I remember when Iceman was released and everyone was shaking. Things change.
  • UltragamerUltragamer Member Posts: 571 ★★★

    Zuro said:

    What's crazy about all this arguing is that they probably won't change him still and just wait till we all forget and move on lol

    bro everything will be ok.

    y'all acting like some evil villain snuck his way into the company to mess with us lol. solutions will come.
    But they are completely ignoring the thread lmao he's right.
    they don't owe us anything lol

    "yeah hi guys he's a hard defender and as usual we'll have solutions ok thanks bye"

    Where in this whole thread did anyone claim they owe us anything?
    when you say they're ignoring the thread that implies that we should get a response.

    i'm a player like everyone else and his kit is OP so i agree with almost everything said here, but it's not the end of the world.

    we know how the game works:

    problem ---> solution

    so unless we think they're going to skip the other half of this game (which they'd be insane to do), it's going to work out fine.
    No it doesn't, it implies we want a response and they can either give us one or not, and people can either be frustrated due to this (us) or not care about it cause you just take whatever they give you (you).

    Also I don't know why you continue to use that argument when I've said like ten times on this same thread already, DLL pretty much confirmed there will be no hard counters, those days are long gone. The best we will get is something similar to Shathra but that's it.
    no matter how garbage serpent looks right now, i am 99.99% positive that their decision not to nerf him is deliberate, intentional, planned, well thought out, and well reasoned.

    our "frustrations" will be soothed in the future and they won't let us drown. they are not dumb enough to leave us without a life preserver. help is coming.
    I'm not disputing that, of course it was intentional, doesn't however change the fact that it's **** to pull that off just so you can sell counters if people want to be able to enjoy BGs.
    I never buy pre-release bundles however I'm pretty much forced to do so with Shathra if I don't want to get wiped out again and again next meta with rich get richer.

    You say they're not dumb enough yet DLL already quite literally said there will never be a Galan Peni situation where a defender becomes completely irrelevant due to a hard counter.
    i'm not pretending to like serpent. i don't. i'm not prepared to fight him in bgs because i'm not great at deck making and drafting, so i ban him. do i wish he was toned down? yeah, but when was the last time a defender existed in the game with no good counters? let's count.

    while there might not be another hulking/peni situation in the future, there will be GOOD counters and this serpent problem won't be as big as it is now. patience, we've been through this so many times and the game's still here and we're still here.
    All defenders in the game should have decent counters, even back in the day when Domino Thing and Korg were released there were ways to either counter them with skill alone or kits. There has never been a single defender in the game that had zero good counters, yes I know Chavez this Kushala that etc they're very slow, until we get Shathra there are no true good counters for him and that's simply not fair. Especially if you're doing it to milk future champs even further, it's messed up.

    No we haven't, that's where you and the rest of the people on this thread are wrong. We have never been through this cause there has never been a defender as ridiculously broken as Serpent, even Domino on release when there were no aar immune champs wasn't as broken as this guy.
    When they were released, there were very few counters to them. I remember when Iceman was released and everyone was shaking. Things change.
    Iceman wasn’t a threat due to his damage was only 25% nothing major but serpent is way more powerful than simple 25% damage which 25% is only major in bgs by the time bgs came out iceman wasn’t a threat
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,562 ★★★★★

    Zuro said:

    What's crazy about all this arguing is that they probably won't change him still and just wait till we all forget and move on lol

    bro everything will be ok.

    y'all acting like some evil villain snuck his way into the company to mess with us lol. solutions will come.
    But they are completely ignoring the thread lmao he's right.
    they don't owe us anything lol

    "yeah hi guys he's a hard defender and as usual we'll have solutions ok thanks bye"

    Where in this whole thread did anyone claim they owe us anything?
    when you say they're ignoring the thread that implies that we should get a response.

    i'm a player like everyone else and his kit is OP so i agree with almost everything said here, but it's not the end of the world.

    we know how the game works:

    problem ---> solution

    so unless we think they're going to skip the other half of this game (which they'd be insane to do), it's going to work out fine.
    No it doesn't, it implies we want a response and they can either give us one or not, and people can either be frustrated due to this (us) or not care about it cause you just take whatever they give you (you).

    Also I don't know why you continue to use that argument when I've said like ten times on this same thread already, DLL pretty much confirmed there will be no hard counters, those days are long gone. The best we will get is something similar to Shathra but that's it.
    no matter how garbage serpent looks right now, i am 99.99% positive that their decision not to nerf him is deliberate, intentional, planned, well thought out, and well reasoned.

    our "frustrations" will be soothed in the future and they won't let us drown. they are not dumb enough to leave us without a life preserver. help is coming.
    I'm not disputing that, of course it was intentional, doesn't however change the fact that it's **** to pull that off just so you can sell counters if people want to be able to enjoy BGs.
    I never buy pre-release bundles however I'm pretty much forced to do so with Shathra if I don't want to get wiped out again and again next meta with rich get richer.

    You say they're not dumb enough yet DLL already quite literally said there will never be a Galan Peni situation where a defender becomes completely irrelevant due to a hard counter.
    i'm not pretending to like serpent. i don't. i'm not prepared to fight him in bgs because i'm not great at deck making and drafting, so i ban him. do i wish he was toned down? yeah, but when was the last time a defender existed in the game with no good counters? let's count.

    while there might not be another hulking/peni situation in the future, there will be GOOD counters and this serpent problem won't be as big as it is now. patience, we've been through this so many times and the game's still here and we're still here.
    All defenders in the game should have decent counters, even back in the day when Domino Thing and Korg were released there were ways to either counter them with skill alone or kits. There has never been a single defender in the game that had zero good counters, yes I know Chavez this Kushala that etc they're very slow, until we get Shathra there are no true good counters for him and that's simply not fair. Especially if you're doing it to milk future champs even further, it's messed up.

    No we haven't, that's where you and the rest of the people on this thread are wrong. We have never been through this cause there has never been a defender as ridiculously broken as Serpent, even Domino on release when there were no aar immune champs wasn't as broken as this guy.
    When they were released, there were very few counters to them. I remember when Iceman was released and everyone was shaking. Things change.
    Iceman wasn’t a threat due to his damage was only 25% nothing major but serpent is way more powerful than simple 25% damage which 25% is only major in bgs by the time bgs came out iceman wasn’t a threat
    Yes, but the game has changes since then. There are a lot more Champs and counters now. At the time, the reactions were pretty much still the same. Anything that people felt was too much has become not challenging at all.
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