I find bullseye harder than serpent I don't think I've ever survived a bullseye BG fight 😂. I don't fight him often cos I usually ban the opponents or they usually ban mine Serpent I can take him out in about 70 secs with tigra and I usually win as long as I place a serpent or bullseye as well
Lol keep deleting all the comments you want Kabam, I'm gonna make sure this thread stays at the top every single time you try to push it down by deleting comments. The only thing that will stop me from keeping this thread at the top is a ban, but they have no reason to swing that ban hammer yet so I'll just keep posting comments 💀
Wait… they really do that… why would that be worth anyone’s time more than simply addressing it.
They can shut this down effectively by (a) telling us there are additional discussions and to stay tuned they should know more in “x days” or by (b) telling us they this is locked loaded and nothing will change their mind or (c) our feedback has been heard, Serpent will remain as is but they agree that hes overtuned and we shouldn’t see this again, but it’s too late to change course now.
Its probably (b) which is why its wild that nobody is up for doing the Miike Closer Move.
I watched Vega's vid on this.. and he is kinda right...
About what? He was right about some things such as Kabam doing this on purpose so they can milk pre-release bundles but others such as him showing how good the "counters" are nah, he's 100% wrong about that. All the "counters" in the game currently suck because dread ruins any type of damage that isn't dot.
Lol keep deleting all the comments you want Kabam, I'm gonna make sure this thread stays at the top every single time you try to push it down by deleting comments. The only thing that will stop me from keeping this thread at the top is a ban, but they have no reason to swing that ban hammer yet so I'll just keep posting comments 💀
Wait… they really do that… why would that be worth anyone’s time more than simply addressing it.
They can shut this down effectively by (a) telling us there are additional discussions and to stay tuned they should know more in “x days” or by (b) telling us they this is locked loaded and nothing will change their mind or (c) our feedback has been heard, Serpent will remain as is but they agree that hes overtuned and we shouldn’t see this again, but it’s too late to change course now.
Its probably (b) which is why its wild that nobody is up for doing the Miike Closer Move.
All I know is the thread disappeared and so did my comment at the same time so yes they're definitely deleting comments unless it's the forum guardians doing it which would be even sadder.
Also yeah, all the **** Miike received all these years and for what? At least he wasn't afraid of saying what needed to be said even when he knew he would get the entire community riled up lol.
I watched Vega's vid on this.. and he is kinda right...
About what? He was right about some things such as Kabam doing this on purpose so they can milk pre-release bundles but others such as him showing how good the "counters" are nah, he's 100% wrong about that. All the "counters" in the game currently suck because dread ruins any type of damage that isn't dot.
About needing this type of defenders to actually challenge players.
I watched Vega's vid on this.. and he is kinda right...
About what? He was right about some things such as Kabam doing this on purpose so they can milk pre-release bundles but others such as him showing how good the "counters" are nah, he's 100% wrong about that. All the "counters" in the game currently suck because dread ruins any type of damage that isn't dot.
About needing this type of defenders to actually challenge players.
When players ask for a challenge they want something to test their skills. What skill is serpent testing? The skill of good draft rng?
I watched Vega's vid on this.. and he is kinda right...
About what? He was right about some things such as Kabam doing this on purpose so they can milk pre-release bundles but others such as him showing how good the "counters" are nah, he's 100% wrong about that. All the "counters" in the game currently suck because dread ruins any type of damage that isn't dot.
About needing this type of defenders to actually challenge players.
(just the comments that are demeaning to one another up here, or in a derogatory manner towards other players or employees. You can make arguments about Serpent, etc. But people don’t need to be name calling one another)
And I believe Crashed has said elsewhere that you can be assured that if there is a multiple page thread going on, then it is near certain that he has seen it, even if there is no update that he would be able to provide so has not replied in it. (**probably wild “weekend” ones being the exception until mondays)
I watched Vega's vid on this.. and he is kinda right...
About what? He was right about some things such as Kabam doing this on purpose so they can milk pre-release bundles but others such as him showing how good the "counters" are nah, he's 100% wrong about that. All the "counters" in the game currently suck because dread ruins any type of damage that isn't dot.
About needing this type of defenders to actually challenge players.
This isn't challenging though this is borderline broken. Photon, Bullseye, Dust, Onslaught, Kindred, Enchantress etc are all challenging. This however is on a completely different level and you know this when even top BGs players are pushing for the nerf, if it's challenging for a top player what do you think happens to the ones that aren't top players?
I watched Vega's vid on this.. and he is kinda right...
About what? He was right about some things such as Kabam doing this on purpose so they can milk pre-release bundles but others such as him showing how good the "counters" are nah, he's 100% wrong about that. All the "counters" in the game currently suck because dread ruins any type of damage that isn't dot.
About needing this type of defenders to actually challenge players.
When players ask for a challenge they want something to test their skills. What skill is serpent testing? The skill of good draft rng?
I watched Vega's vid on this.. and he is kinda right...
About what? He was right about some things such as Kabam doing this on purpose so they can milk pre-release bundles but others such as him showing how good the "counters" are nah, he's 100% wrong about that. All the "counters" in the game currently suck because dread ruins any type of damage that isn't dot.
About needing this type of defenders to actually challenge players.
What’s the challenge, a luck competition?
You got 2 choices, load the deck with counters or ban him...
I watched Vega's vid on this.. and he is kinda right...
About what? He was right about some things such as Kabam doing this on purpose so they can milk pre-release bundles but others such as him showing how good the "counters" are nah, he's 100% wrong about that. All the "counters" in the game currently suck because dread ruins any type of damage that isn't dot.
About needing this type of defenders to actually challenge players.
When players ask for a challenge they want something to test their skills. What skill is serpent testing? The skill of good draft rng?
I watched Vega's vid on this.. and he is kinda right...
About what? He was right about some things such as Kabam doing this on purpose so they can milk pre-release bundles but others such as him showing how good the "counters" are nah, he's 100% wrong about that. All the "counters" in the game currently suck because dread ruins any type of damage that isn't dot.
About needing this type of defenders to actually challenge players.
What’s the challenge, a luck competition?
You got 2 choices, load the deck with counters or ban him...
I watched Vega's vid on this.. and he is kinda right...
About what? He was right about some things such as Kabam doing this on purpose so they can milk pre-release bundles but others such as him showing how good the "counters" are nah, he's 100% wrong about that. All the "counters" in the game currently suck because dread ruins any type of damage that isn't dot.
About needing this type of defenders to actually challenge players.
When players ask for a challenge they want something to test their skills. What skill is serpent testing? The skill of good draft rng?
I watched Vega's vid on this.. and he is kinda right...
About what? He was right about some things such as Kabam doing this on purpose so they can milk pre-release bundles but others such as him showing how good the "counters" are nah, he's 100% wrong about that. All the "counters" in the game currently suck because dread ruins any type of damage that isn't dot.
About needing this type of defenders to actually challenge players.
What’s the challenge, a luck competition?
You got 2 choices, load the deck with counters or ban him...
Ok, so the challenge is a luck competition. Thanks for participating
I watched Vega's vid on this.. and he is kinda right...
About what? He was right about some things such as Kabam doing this on purpose so they can milk pre-release bundles but others such as him showing how good the "counters" are nah, he's 100% wrong about that. All the "counters" in the game currently suck because dread ruins any type of damage that isn't dot.
About needing this type of defenders to actually challenge players.
When players ask for a challenge they want something to test their skills. What skill is serpent testing? The skill of good draft rng?
I watched Vega's vid on this.. and he is kinda right...
About what? He was right about some things such as Kabam doing this on purpose so they can milk pre-release bundles but others such as him showing how good the "counters" are nah, he's 100% wrong about that. All the "counters" in the game currently suck because dread ruins any type of damage that isn't dot.
About needing this type of defenders to actually challenge players.
What’s the challenge, a luck competition?
You got 2 choices, load the deck with counters or ban him...
Tired of refuting the same argument over and over so there’s answers to why those 2 arguments are bad in previous pages.
But you didn’t answer the question, so again, what skill does serpent test?
I watched Vega's vid on this.. and he is kinda right...
About what? He was right about some things such as Kabam doing this on purpose so they can milk pre-release bundles but others such as him showing how good the "counters" are nah, he's 100% wrong about that. All the "counters" in the game currently suck because dread ruins any type of damage that isn't dot.
About needing this type of defenders to actually challenge players.
When players ask for a challenge they want something to test their skills. What skill is serpent testing? The skill of good draft rng?
I watched Vega's vid on this.. and he is kinda right...
About what? He was right about some things such as Kabam doing this on purpose so they can milk pre-release bundles but others such as him showing how good the "counters" are nah, he's 100% wrong about that. All the "counters" in the game currently suck because dread ruins any type of damage that isn't dot.
About needing this type of defenders to actually challenge players.
What’s the challenge, a luck competition?
You got 2 choices, load the deck with counters or ban him...
I’m tired of repeating the same arguments over and over so there’s answers to why those arguments are bad in previous pages.
But again, this didn’t answer my question. What skill is serpent testing? Neither praying for a counter in the draft or pressing the ban button is a skill being tested.
It's so funny to me cause they call them "counters" yet those "counters" have no way to play around his dread which makes him an even bigger tank than a r3 Sasquatch. To put things into perspective Man-Thing reduces crit penetration by 100% this is why your crits deal 0 bonus damage, Serpent's dread reduces crit penetration by 60%, in what world is a tank with unavoidable damage a good idea lmao and guess what if I kill him he also has a cheat death mechanic, you just can't get a break 💀
I watched Vega's vid on this.. and he is kinda right...
About what? He was right about some things such as Kabam doing this on purpose so they can milk pre-release bundles but others such as him showing how good the "counters" are nah, he's 100% wrong about that. All the "counters" in the game currently suck because dread ruins any type of damage that isn't dot.
About needing this type of defenders to actually challenge players.
When players ask for a challenge they want something to test their skills. What skill is serpent testing? The skill of good draft rng?
I watched Vega's vid on this.. and he is kinda right...
About what? He was right about some things such as Kabam doing this on purpose so they can milk pre-release bundles but others such as him showing how good the "counters" are nah, he's 100% wrong about that. All the "counters" in the game currently suck because dread ruins any type of damage that isn't dot.
About needing this type of defenders to actually challenge players.
What’s the challenge, a luck competition?
You got 2 choices, load the deck with counters or ban him...
I’m tired of repeating the same arguments over and over so there’s answers to why those arguments are bad in previous pages.
But again, this didn’t answer my question. What skill is serpent testing? Neither praying for a counter in the draft or pressing the ban button is a skill being tested.
See that's the problem, people see the word challenge and immediately get triggered questioning skill... Having a broad ranked roster is a challenge in this game as well. 80 sec fight as someone said? Well . Have to strategize your own defender as well.
I watched Vega's vid on this.. and he is kinda right...
About what? He was right about some things such as Kabam doing this on purpose so they can milk pre-release bundles but others such as him showing how good the "counters" are nah, he's 100% wrong about that. All the "counters" in the game currently suck because dread ruins any type of damage that isn't dot.
About needing this type of defenders to actually challenge players.
When players ask for a challenge they want something to test their skills. What skill is serpent testing? The skill of good draft rng?
I watched Vega's vid on this.. and he is kinda right...
About what? He was right about some things such as Kabam doing this on purpose so they can milk pre-release bundles but others such as him showing how good the "counters" are nah, he's 100% wrong about that. All the "counters" in the game currently suck because dread ruins any type of damage that isn't dot.
About needing this type of defenders to actually challenge players.
What’s the challenge, a luck competition?
You got 2 choices, load the deck with counters or ban him...
I’m tired of repeating the same arguments over and over so there’s answers to why those arguments are bad in previous pages.
But again, this didn’t answer my question. What skill is serpent testing? Neither praying for a counter in the draft or pressing the ban button is a skill being tested.
See that's the problem, people see the word challenge and immediately get triggered questioning skill... Having a broad ranked roster is a challenge in this game as well. 80 sec fight as someone said? Well . Have to strategize your own defender as well.
No defender in the game can stall for that long if your opponent drafts a counter, none. Even the most challenging defenders in the game as well as the tanky ones go down in sub 50 with the right counters, there isn't (as of now) a single counter in the game that can do Serpent in sub 50 except for the occasional Tigra takedown which not only requires perfect gameplay but good neutralize RNG before the last phase. If you can't see the difference there I really don't know what else to tell you.
So, I wanted to loop back to this, for a Proof in Concept and also as another example of why this kit in BGs — on a timer with nodes — is just so problematic:
I played this as well as you can do it — not bragging. This is the best it can be done, actually playing as the attacker:
The problem is that IN ADDITION to all the things in the kit, Placebo just makes it basically impossible to do basically anything other than attempt to survive long enough to try a rotation that actually works.
Again: I am not the most skilled player in the world. But I have a lot of experience with the game, and I do know when I do it right and when I don’t.
You shouldn’t have a kit/node combo that CANNOT be killed by a viable counter.
I KNOW, absolutely KNOW, Thor (Ragnarok) can do it exactly the way I described:
Again, it absolutely takes time, but it can be done.
But the kit is so broken, any assistance you add to it with a node in BGs makes it…man, IDK. I literally don’t get what you’re supposed to do in BGs with how this kit is designed.
Depending on what the nodes are in other content, IDK. Everest content…IDK. Better players than me are going to deal with that stuff, like what Necropolis II or whatever.
But BGs man…IDK. Just broken. Flat-out broken
This is the problem with these outside the box counters, one node is all it takes to trivialize them. And if you don’t have mystic power control then it just takes passive AI
ANYTHING that adds power to that kit in BGs…it’s hard to see how an extremely limited set of characters is ever going to kill it consistently in BGs with a power gain element
I know time will bring something else to deal with it, but man. I just am amazed at how few things actually work, with nothing really working well
lol get ready for some crazy conflictor over time combined with stun immunity meta… there goes maybe every counter other than Wigra which often requires a bit of AI compliance and luck to solo.
One thing is certain skill isn’t meant to matter here
Kind of starting to feel like that’s the point. If Kabam’s goal is to monetize the game more effectively by basically selling champs every month of the year, they don’t want you to skill your way around something. They want your success / progress to me more directly driven by whether or not you have character XYZ in your roster.
I watched Vega's vid on this.. and he is kinda right...
About what? He was right about some things such as Kabam doing this on purpose so they can milk pre-release bundles but others such as him showing how good the "counters" are nah, he's 100% wrong about that. All the "counters" in the game currently suck because dread ruins any type of damage that isn't dot.
About needing this type of defenders to actually challenge players.
When players ask for a challenge they want something to test their skills. What skill is serpent testing? The skill of good draft rng?
I watched Vega's vid on this.. and he is kinda right...
About what? He was right about some things such as Kabam doing this on purpose so they can milk pre-release bundles but others such as him showing how good the "counters" are nah, he's 100% wrong about that. All the "counters" in the game currently suck because dread ruins any type of damage that isn't dot.
About needing this type of defenders to actually challenge players.
What’s the challenge, a luck competition?
You got 2 choices, load the deck with counters or ban him...
I’m tired of repeating the same arguments over and over so there’s answers to why those arguments are bad in previous pages.
But again, this didn’t answer my question. What skill is serpent testing? Neither praying for a counter in the draft or pressing the ban button is a skill being tested.
See that's the problem, people see the word challenge and immediately get triggered questioning skill... Having a broad ranked roster is a challenge in this game as well. 80 sec fight as someone said? Well . Have to strategize your own defender as well.
No defender in the game can stall for that long if your opponent drafts a counter, none. Even the most challenging defenders in the game as well as the tanky ones go down in sub 50 with the right counters, there isn't (as of now) a single counter in the game that can do Serpent in sub 50 except for the occasional Tigra takedown which not only requires perfect gameplay but good neutralize RNG before the last phase. If you can't see the difference there I really don't know what else to tell you.
You don't have to tell me anything really, the difference is that I am not trying to convince you of my opinion. I have my point of view, which is completely valid, I just don't agree with you and its fine by me, its not fine by you and that is your problem not mine
I watched Vega's vid on this.. and he is kinda right...
About what? He was right about some things such as Kabam doing this on purpose so they can milk pre-release bundles but others such as him showing how good the "counters" are nah, he's 100% wrong about that. All the "counters" in the game currently suck because dread ruins any type of damage that isn't dot.
About needing this type of defenders to actually challenge players.
When players ask for a challenge they want something to test their skills. What skill is serpent testing? The skill of good draft rng?
I watched Vega's vid on this.. and he is kinda right...
About what? He was right about some things such as Kabam doing this on purpose so they can milk pre-release bundles but others such as him showing how good the "counters" are nah, he's 100% wrong about that. All the "counters" in the game currently suck because dread ruins any type of damage that isn't dot.
About needing this type of defenders to actually challenge players.
What’s the challenge, a luck competition?
You got 2 choices, load the deck with counters or ban him...
I’m tired of repeating the same arguments over and over so there’s answers to why those arguments are bad in previous pages.
But again, this didn’t answer my question. What skill is serpent testing? Neither praying for a counter in the draft or pressing the ban button is a skill being tested.
See that's the problem, people see the word challenge and immediately get triggered questioning skill... Having a broad ranked roster is a challenge in this game as well. 80 sec fight as someone said? Well . Have to strategize your own defender as well.
And how is that a good challenge? We all jump to mentioning skill because it is objectively the best attribute to be challenged. Skill based gamemodes reward practice and proficiency. Drafting a counter rewards me being lucky in pulling that counter out of a crystal and then in the draft.
As far as strategy goes, serpent removes more strategy than he adds. If I draft bullseye and my opponent drafts Onslaught, suddenly I have to rethink my decision to place him on defense as onslaught can take him in 45s with 95% health. If I draft serpent and they draft Chavez, it’s like eh whatever he’s still gonna take 70s. Serpent is a braindead win 90% of the time. Really not sure how that adds strategy.
I watched Vega's vid on this.. and he is kinda right...
About what? He was right about some things such as Kabam doing this on purpose so they can milk pre-release bundles but others such as him showing how good the "counters" are nah, he's 100% wrong about that. All the "counters" in the game currently suck because dread ruins any type of damage that isn't dot.
About needing this type of defenders to actually challenge players.
When players ask for a challenge they want something to test their skills. What skill is serpent testing? The skill of good draft rng?
I watched Vega's vid on this.. and he is kinda right...
About what? He was right about some things such as Kabam doing this on purpose so they can milk pre-release bundles but others such as him showing how good the "counters" are nah, he's 100% wrong about that. All the "counters" in the game currently suck because dread ruins any type of damage that isn't dot.
About needing this type of defenders to actually challenge players.
What’s the challenge, a luck competition?
You got 2 choices, load the deck with counters or ban him...
I’m tired of repeating the same arguments over and over so there’s answers to why those arguments are bad in previous pages.
But again, this didn’t answer my question. What skill is serpent testing? Neither praying for a counter in the draft or pressing the ban button is a skill being tested.
See that's the problem, people see the word challenge and immediately get triggered questioning skill... Having a broad ranked roster is a challenge in this game as well. 80 sec fight as someone said? Well . Have to strategize your own defender as well.
No defender in the game can stall for that long if your opponent drafts a counter, none. Even the most challenging defenders in the game as well as the tanky ones go down in sub 50 with the right counters, there isn't (as of now) a single counter in the game that can do Serpent in sub 50 except for the occasional Tigra takedown which not only requires perfect gameplay but good neutralize RNG before the last phase. If you can't see the difference there I really don't know what else to tell you.
You don't have to tell me anything really, the difference is that I am not trying to convince you of my opinion. I have my point of view, which is completely valid, I just don't agree with you and its fine by me, its not fine by you and that is your problem not mine
Which isn't surprising, every single person who commented on this thread cause they're vehemently defending Kabam/Vega/Andrew eventually ran out of arguments and left the conversation quietly losing every ounce of credibility they may have had. Doesn't matter if we changed your mind or not, facts are facts.
I watched Vega's vid on this.. and he is kinda right...
About what? He was right about some things such as Kabam doing this on purpose so they can milk pre-release bundles but others such as him showing how good the "counters" are nah, he's 100% wrong about that. All the "counters" in the game currently suck because dread ruins any type of damage that isn't dot.
About needing this type of defenders to actually challenge players.
When players ask for a challenge they want something to test their skills. What skill is serpent testing? The skill of good draft rng?
I watched Vega's vid on this.. and he is kinda right...
About what? He was right about some things such as Kabam doing this on purpose so they can milk pre-release bundles but others such as him showing how good the "counters" are nah, he's 100% wrong about that. All the "counters" in the game currently suck because dread ruins any type of damage that isn't dot.
About needing this type of defenders to actually challenge players.
What’s the challenge, a luck competition?
You got 2 choices, load the deck with counters or ban him...
I’m tired of repeating the same arguments over and over so there’s answers to why those arguments are bad in previous pages.
But again, this didn’t answer my question. What skill is serpent testing? Neither praying for a counter in the draft or pressing the ban button is a skill being tested.
See that's the problem, people see the word challenge and immediately get triggered questioning skill... Having a broad ranked roster is a challenge in this game as well. 80 sec fight as someone said? Well . Have to strategize your own defender as well.
And how is that a good challenge? We all jump to mentioning skill because it is objectively the best attribute to be challenged. Skill based gamemodes reward practice and proficiency. Drafting a counter rewards me being lucky in pulling that counter out of a crystal and then in the draft.
As far as strategy goes, serpent removes more strategy than he adds. If I draft bullseye and my opponent drafts Onslaught, suddenly I have to rethink my decision to place him on defense as onslaught can take him in 45s with 95% health. If I draft serpent and they draft Chavez, it’s like eh whatever he’s still gonna take 70s. Serpent is a braindead win 90% of the time. Really not sure how that adds strategy.
Knowing when to throw a round is part of strategy too 🤷
Comments
“we’re happy with his performance as a defender so far and won’t be making any change.”
I don't think I've ever survived a bullseye BG fight 😂. I don't fight him often cos I usually ban the opponents or they usually ban mine
Serpent I can take him out in about 70 secs with tigra and I usually win as long as I place a serpent or bullseye as well
Who’s the fairest champ of all?
They can shut this down effectively by (a) telling us there are additional discussions and to stay tuned they should know more in “x days” or by (b) telling us they this is locked loaded and nothing will change their mind or (c) our feedback has been heard, Serpent will remain as is but they agree that hes overtuned and we shouldn’t see this again, but it’s too late to change course now.
Its probably (b) which is why its wild that nobody is up for doing the Miike Closer Move.
Also yeah, all the **** Miike received all these years and for what? At least he wasn't afraid of saying what needed to be said even when he knew he would get the entire community riled up lol.
SNAKE MAN BAD!
And I believe Crashed has said elsewhere that you can be assured that if there is a multiple page thread going on, then it is near certain that he has seen it, even if there is no update that he would be able to provide so has not replied in it. (**probably wild “weekend” ones being the exception until mondays)
But you didn’t answer the question, so again, what skill does serpent test?
To put things into perspective Man-Thing reduces crit penetration by 100% this is why your crits deal 0 bonus damage, Serpent's dread reduces crit penetration by 60%, in what world is a tank with unavoidable damage a good idea lmao and guess what if I kill him he also has a cheat death mechanic, you just can't get a break 💀
Having a broad ranked roster is a challenge in this game as well.
80 sec fight as someone said? Well . Have to strategize your own defender as well.
If you can't see the difference there I really don't know what else to tell you.
As far as strategy goes, serpent removes more strategy than he adds. If I draft bullseye and my opponent drafts Onslaught, suddenly I have to rethink my decision to place him on defense as onslaught can take him in 45s with 95% health. If I draft serpent and they draft Chavez, it’s like eh whatever he’s still gonna take 70s. Serpent is a braindead win 90% of the time. Really not sure how that adds strategy.
Doesn't matter if we changed your mind or not, facts are facts.