So screw the guys who dont see aq with 30 minute timers they are a minority and dont.matter.
I rewrote your arguement for ya
You were very close. But what I mean is that the minority matters far less than the majority. Basic math on that one.
Not when designing a game mode that is meant to include everyone. That's not a "majority rules" situation.
As you've said a million times in here, it doesn't work for everybody. When designing the game they decide which functions will better serve a majority of players while trying to minimize the negatively impacted minority of players. So the game is built to be compatible with a majority. For some reason they think appealing to a majority is better than appealing to a minority. Don't ask me why. I would have thought that a large group of people had the same amount of money as a small group of people so it couldn't possibly be that they usually cater to whatever method will dictate more revenue.
No. The idea is to make it accessible and playable for as many people as possible. Not to vote people off the island.
More energy is more freedom to decide how you play the game. Less energy means more constraint on how you play the game. It would change the meta of the game for, according to the examples given in this thread, roughly 1 in 30 players in a negative way. And that is just because their allies can't be trusted to watch their backs. The game would still be very accessible and playable for all of the people who play now. The player chooses their alliance, the alliance chooses it's members, players choose their paths and when and how they use their energy. I would just like to see us able to make more of those decisions for ourselves, both as individuals and as members of a team.
It's not more Energy. Same amount of moves on the Map. It's faster Energy. Same time frame between Maps, same amount needed to finish.
The amount of energy required to complete the map is the same but you have more energy whenever you do login which does create more options. You can solo a path that normally takes two to finish. You can login when you have time rather than when you have a move. You don't have to worry about wasting energy if you have 5 moves. You can login and do 3 quick fights instead of one. If you have to be off for an extended period for work or whatever, no worries. If everyone wants to play it exactly the same way as if it were one hour timers, you can do that too. And individuals who solo long paths that wouldn't ordinarily get soloed do actually make more moves with more energy than they could ordinarily get. So yes, @GroundedWisdom, I think your point is semantics.
It's not wrong. You have the same amount of moves, same amount of time to finish the Map. In both instances, the Map gets finished. One scenario involves people waiting longer. Either situation has the same end goal. Only one has a negative effect on a number of Players because people have a lack of patience. Either way, the options are the same. Wait for Energy, finish the Map, do another the next day. Just halving the Recharge doesn't solve any real need. People just like to finish faster.
It's not wrong. You have the same amount of moves, same amount of time to finish the Map. In both instances, the Map gets finished. One scenario involves people waiting longer. Either situation has the same end goal. Only one has a negative effect on a number of Players because people have a lack of patience. Either way, the options are the same. Wait for Energy, finish the Map, do another the next day. Just halving the Recharge doesn't solve any real need. People just like to finish faster.
It's really hard to believe that you still don't get what most of us are saying. I have seen a dozen people try to explain to you that finishing faster has nothing to do with it for most. Maybe it's because you don't run higher maps with three battlegroups. It is wrong, because it is more energy, but that's a minor point. The flexibility for different alliances with different time zone issues and work schedules is the main thing. Both versions have a negative impact on some, so that's not really a point. But anyone negatively impacted by 30 minute timers can find an alliance in which they will no longer be negatively impacted. 30 minute timers do provide more options for every player in the game. Feel free to be opposed to them. But the detrimental argument is garbage.
I challenge anyone to provide 1 tangible practical example of a Person or Alliance who would be disadvantaged by 30 minute timers.
In 9 pages I have yet to see an example of anyone who would be worse off because of 30 min timers.
We literally did that. In 9 pages, people keep ignoring the issues because they don't want to accept them.
You literally did nothing. Explain in details how that single guy can't even enter AQ before it ends, tell us his paths, the nodes he usually removes and the time he usually connects to the game. AQ timer is not an issue for this guy, he is an issue for your ally. And again, joining an ally from a different time zone is a choice and you have to accept coscequences.
He misses the first 10 hrs of aq goes to bed at 10am PST (hes in Singapore if I recall) so I'll convert to our time. Wakes up around 6pst and heads to work gets his break at 10 PST and plays for the rest of aq.
On hr timers he misses section 1
Does either power or immune section 2 and second boss
Then gets the electro path up thru to boss while we sleep then the allaince awakens to him ahead us and we clear the rest.
On half hr timers he generally does nothing unless someone decides to double up a line just to leave stuff
I find this very hard to believe. I use to play in a competitive map 5 ally that would score around 115 to 120 mil these guys were on it with international players and even with 30 min timers you would be hard pressed to finish in 10 hrs. All nine players would have to be moving in sync to finish in 10 hrs. Also why is your guy not logging in before he goes to work you would be at the end of tier 2 start of 3 at best. Also he must make it difficult on other members when you have one hr timers since by the time he joins aq is half way over. I don’t believe you at all I honestly think you are just trolling and we all know what gw is doing. I don’t play map 5 anymore could careless about the timers. But I do know form experience 30 min timers make time management easier.
Yes the maps are made for a full alliance to be able to clear with 1 hour timers.
Right now we are short handed because of the iPhone over heating problem. Not because they don't want to join and play, it's because they should not risk serious damage to their phones.
Right now 30m timers make sense since we have lost the moves/energy those players would be contributing.
It’s amazing how this thread started off happy and thanking Kabam for 30 minute timers. And how people are getting on the bandwagon with it. The community felt good about it.
Now, well we can all see what happened.
It’s kinda sad when a few people ruin the fun of others.
Here is a simple comparison. 30 minute timers give freedom, 1 hr timers take freedom away.
So screw the guys who dont see aq with 30 minute timers they are a minority and dont.matter.
I rewrote your arguement for ya
You were very close. But what I mean is that the minority matters far less than the majority. Basic math on that one.
Not when designing a game mode that is meant to include everyone. That's not a "majority rules" situation.
If the game mode was “designed” to include everyone, why aren’t all of the AQ maps 10 paths? If this is the logic we are going by, where kabam has designed a game mode requiring everyone to participate, why isn’t every available quest map designed for how every alliance in full is designed? Oh, it’s not designed that way for lower maps? It’s only made so that groups with less people running lower maps can finish still? It’s up to the players to decide and organize their group? And if everyone wants a fight in these short path low maps, they would have to wait anyway no matter if the timer was one hour or half an hour? Interesting. Strange how the argument you were making isn’t actually how the maps are designed at all, and how a ton of people have tried to show you and the other kid on here why those arguments don’t hold up, but you refuse to acknowledge them at all, and just keep repeating yourself. No matter how you look at it, your points are wrong. You’re the only two loud vocal people I’ve ever seen on any forum or sub about this game who are arguing this point. You refused to answer any question I asked you for context on why you feel this way, so I can’t take your argument seriously anyway, and you keep whining about how you’re leaving yet can’t stop responding every time I check back here. Page after page, you’re crying about others not listening to you when they already responded & addressed your concerns point by point. I did it myself and I barely ever post here, but honestly I saw this thread and both of you hijacking it and needed to say my mind. You’re not contributing any concrete details or facts about this, and refuse to answer when others have poked holes in both of your points. You aren’t interested in a debate, as both of you would have failed debate club in a high school with the logic you have displayed here. You just double down and ignore every point people have made in response, or you pick one tiny part to answer and turn it into a whole deflection or circle back to yours. It’s bad analysis. I have no problem continuing to point out why you’re wrong. Because you are, in every way on this subject.
I mean really, now it seems the main argument in contention is that not everyone will get to do fights in the entire map, as if this game mode was ever exciting or any groups truly were fighting because someone didn’t get to fight the same sentinel or lame node/old adaptoid for five days straight?! I mean come on. Even the game developers didn’t make this mode exciting, they made it necessary to get resources. It’s a grind. Everyone who joins gets resources. The same logic goes for higher maps to coordinate as it does for lower, as AQ for lower groups is more of a teaching tool and learning than it is anything else. If someone wants to get a fight in, they get assigned to a group with the schedule to accommodate it. My group got stuck doing map 2 the first day this week due to kabam mess ups, and we finished the entire map before it was halfway done with the day cycle. There’s time to hold if they absolutely must have someone do a fight for personal pride. But that’s not what the majority of groups are doing in reality, they just want to get them done to release their champs for other better game modes. Just like the higher maps. Having shorter timers would allow those higher groups flexibility to do either way I just highlighted. It’s always up to the alliance itself to manage them and this would be a way to give them options.
Happy medium 45 minutes timers...if your alliance mates can’t slow down to accommodate any of your international mates then they are impatient (insert whatever tickles your description fancy.)
I know that it’s possible to do it with the 1-hr timers, but for those that aren’t working the games shaft and going hardcore on AQ content...the 30 minute timers are considered a decent breather. That way if someone who isn’t around to double up a path to clear section 1 of map 5...that path be be cleared with 1 person with little worry.
It's not wrong. You have the same amount of moves, same amount of time to finish the Map. In both instances, the Map gets finished. One scenario involves people waiting longer. Either situation has the same end goal. Only one has a negative effect on a number of Players because people have a lack of patience. Either way, the options are the same. Wait for Energy, finish the Map, do another the next day. Just halving the Recharge doesn't solve any real need. People just like to finish faster.
It absolutely is wrong, and you’re only arguing semantics. Many players will “gain” moves with more energy than they would have otherwise. Players who login less will still have the same amount of moves they would have with the caveats of less fights since those who move more often will have fought them. Getting the map(especially 6) finished without having to hassle people with real jobs and life should be something laudable as a change. If as you argue the map is “designed” with all player participation in mind on 1 hour timers why isn’t there 10 paths in every section? People like to finish faster because real life happens and nobody likes to be harassed to move on a game while that real life is happening. If you fail to see that than I’m not really sure what will convince you.
It's not wrong. You have the same amount of moves, same amount of time to finish the Map. In both instances, the Map gets finished. One scenario involves people waiting longer. Either situation has the same end goal. Only one has a negative effect on a number of Players because people have a lack of patience. Either way, the options are the same. Wait for Energy, finish the Map, do another the next day. Just halving the Recharge doesn't solve any real need. People just like to finish faster.
It absolutely is wrong, and you’re only arguing semantics. Many players will “gain” moves with more energy than they would have otherwise. Players who login less will still have the same amount of moves they would have with the caveats of less fights since those who move more often will have fought them. Getting the map(esp. 6) finished without having to hassle people with real jobs & life should be something laudable as a change. If as you argue the map is “designed” with all player participation in mind on 1 hour timers why isn’t there 10 paths in every section? People like to finish faster because real life happens and nobody likes to be harassed to move on a game while that real life is happening. If you fail to see that than I’m not really sure what will convince you.
Absolutely correct, and I actually made this same point earlier but was ignored in the multitude of responses after from both individuals. If the argument is that this game mode is truly special and designed for everyone to get a chance to fight, and the alliances are capped at 30 players, meaning 10 per group available to fight, why aren't there ten paths in every map for alliance quest? The fact that it takes two seconds to debunk any counterargument from these guys only shows they aren't interested in debating or seeing the other side. They see what Kabam says, they use their own seemingly lower tier, strange personal examples as evidence it's somehow harmful for the larger player base, and aren't open to any form of suggestion that this particular game mode could be changed in any way. That is, until Kabam decides to change it, then it will be those same guys holding the water in these exact boards pushing the edict along as fact once again. It's kind of crazy to watch, after lurking all these years and only recently commenting in any form beyond alliance recruitment. I said it before, but it almost reminds me of politicians. When they can't respond or debate a number of points, they take one small point and twist it, deflect and use it to switch the commentary to distract from the fact they aren't sure what they are debating in the first place and the logic is on shaky ground.
There have been probably hundreds of other changes in this game over the last three years. These changes didn't get magically fixed in a vacuum of no player interaction. It was the efforts of people on this forum & in the subs who would tell Kabam it was bothersome, decreasing their fun in the game, and could be made better. Granted, some of those changes took more time & effort than others, but a lot of them happened eventually. If there was no merit to any of them - as is being suggested here in this example, because Kabam "designed them" at conception as such - then why did the company acquiesce & have the player base laud them as welcome quality of life improvements? The person most vocally in support of the status quo on this subject here seems to view a lot of this game in a very black and white fashion. Kabam makes the game; we play the game; Kabam improves the game; the game is improved because of Kabam therefore = kabam is usually right (but in actuality always right). This seems to be the line of thinking, and I'm not being hyperbolic because I've read these interactions for over a year now and I've seen it over and over. As soon as this 30 minute possible timer change would happen (if Kabam did indeed change it permanently) this same person would be making the exact same argument - "kabam said it was working as intended this way, it's designed this way" & nevertheless continuing to parrot the moderators and Kabam. When someone has a history as long and detailed of doing such on these forums, it's hard not to guess this would be exactly what would happen.
So I make my points in detail, and use examples & logic to point out why this change would not only be beneficial but welcome, and not one of my points were answered or debated. Hundreds of comments later they are still arguing about it using the same language & digging deeper. If this were to happen, we all agree that the alliances who somehow didn't want this to happen would need to adapt. Just like the rest of us have to adapt to every other change in this game that wasn't beneficial to our current set up. From one of the supporters comments in another thread, it sounds like the issue isn't 30 minute or hour timers, but losing huge chunks of members for probably another reason entirely, and going by the quality of the comments on here and level of debate and discourse, I would guess it's a systemic issue rather than anything to do with time zones or energy/moves available in this part of the game.
I even made a reddit post asking this same question & got some really varied responses, and really the only argument that closely aligns with the pro-staying 1 hour guys on here is that AQ is supposed to be difficult, hence the 1 hour timers. There's a debate to be had about this, as has been laid out here too - is AQ supposed to be difficult, or is it necessary? Is a game mode that requires everyone to be available for 5 days in a row at multiple times during the day and night to get the amount of resources required to rank champions something people consider fun and a challenge? Isn't that why they have different levels of maps in the first place, to control the level of difficulty? What about changing the energy cap to 6 or 7 or higher to compromise? If it's a matter of everyone WANTING to play this game mode but dealing with time differences and availability, why aren't there always 10 specific paths on each map no matter the skill level required? Kabam designed this mode, no matter what your opinion about it may be, to require your alliance to work together and coordinate. That's a fact, hands down. So what exactly would change in that fact if the timers were altered to favor either more moves or in a quicker time frame? The group would still need to coordinate to make sure everyone plays, everyone in each time zone could participate and that the paths were all taken down. Waiting on people to clear a link because they are asleep doesn't change whether the timer is faster or not. Schedules won't change at all, but the paths assigned and amount of fights and strategy might. Some might view that as a negative, but in every other game mode, they seem just fine with change as long as it's Kabam approved. This shouldn't be any different, and just for once, it would be lovely to see those same people give us a bit of credit for trying instead of just waiting for Kabam to eventually think about it or look at changing a game aspect. And I really wish every single thread I see on here wasn't hijacked by the same people speaking as if they represent the official game or moderators, as I think that's disingenuous and only contributes to the discourse and lack of civility between the players and the game team. If the intent is to help them out or ease the waters, the effect is definitely not anything close to it and in fact the complete opposite.
That's my extremely long two cents and probably the last I'll say on this subject, but I would really appreciate if more players jumped in with their opinions as well, and if someone from Kabam would actually read through all of this. With the state of things lately, I'm sadly gonna guess that won't happen but one can dream.
TL:DR - "We don't accept your examples, so you contributed nothing."
Wow that is your most blatant blow off response yet. It seems when you can’t argue/discuss the point you just blow it off acting smug.
On topic 30 again minute timers releave stress for the masses.
And create stress for others but again screw them.
But who does it create stress for? An alliance that has a guy who doesn't join AQ for the first 10hrs? I don't think 30 min timers are the issue here.
It’s not even an issue for the 10 hours late guy. If they are genuinely concerned with his rewards, all they have to do is arrange to leave a node for him.
Comments
It's not more Energy. Same amount of moves on the Map. It's faster Energy. Same time frame between Maps, same amount needed to finish.
It's really hard to believe that you still don't get what most of us are saying. I have seen a dozen people try to explain to you that finishing faster has nothing to do with it for most. Maybe it's because you don't run higher maps with three battlegroups. It is wrong, because it is more energy, but that's a minor point. The flexibility for different alliances with different time zone issues and work schedules is the main thing. Both versions have a negative impact on some, so that's not really a point. But anyone negatively impacted by 30 minute timers can find an alliance in which they will no longer be negatively impacted. 30 minute timers do provide more options for every player in the game. Feel free to be opposed to them. But the detrimental argument is garbage.
I find this very hard to believe. I use to play in a competitive map 5 ally that would score around 115 to 120 mil these guys were on it with international players and even with 30 min timers you would be hard pressed to finish in 10 hrs. All nine players would have to be moving in sync to finish in 10 hrs. Also why is your guy not logging in before he goes to work you would be at the end of tier 2 start of 3 at best. Also he must make it difficult on other members when you have one hr timers since by the time he joins aq is half way over. I don’t believe you at all I honestly think you are just trolling and we all know what gw is doing. I don’t play map 5 anymore could careless about the timers. But I do know form experience 30 min timers make time management easier.
Right now we are short handed because of the iPhone over heating problem. Not because they don't want to join and play, it's because they should not risk serious damage to their phones.
Right now 30m timers make sense since we have lost the moves/energy those players would be contributing.
so the company is, once again, taking steps back again to the pathetic 1 hour timer
Now, well we can all see what happened.
It’s kinda sad when a few people ruin the fun of others.
Here is a simple comparison. 30 minute timers give freedom, 1 hr timers take freedom away.
If the game mode was “designed” to include everyone, why aren’t all of the AQ maps 10 paths? If this is the logic we are going by, where kabam has designed a game mode requiring everyone to participate, why isn’t every available quest map designed for how every alliance in full is designed? Oh, it’s not designed that way for lower maps? It’s only made so that groups with less people running lower maps can finish still? It’s up to the players to decide and organize their group? And if everyone wants a fight in these short path low maps, they would have to wait anyway no matter if the timer was one hour or half an hour? Interesting. Strange how the argument you were making isn’t actually how the maps are designed at all, and how a ton of people have tried to show you and the other kid on here why those arguments don’t hold up, but you refuse to acknowledge them at all, and just keep repeating yourself. No matter how you look at it, your points are wrong. You’re the only two loud vocal people I’ve ever seen on any forum or sub about this game who are arguing this point. You refused to answer any question I asked you for context on why you feel this way, so I can’t take your argument seriously anyway, and you keep whining about how you’re leaving yet can’t stop responding every time I check back here. Page after page, you’re crying about others not listening to you when they already responded & addressed your concerns point by point. I did it myself and I barely ever post here, but honestly I saw this thread and both of you hijacking it and needed to say my mind. You’re not contributing any concrete details or facts about this, and refuse to answer when others have poked holes in both of your points. You aren’t interested in a debate, as both of you would have failed debate club in a high school with the logic you have displayed here. You just double down and ignore every point people have made in response, or you pick one tiny part to answer and turn it into a whole deflection or circle back to yours. It’s bad analysis. I have no problem continuing to point out why you’re wrong. Because you are, in every way on this subject.
I know that it’s possible to do it with the 1-hr timers, but for those that aren’t working the games shaft and going hardcore on AQ content...the 30 minute timers are considered a decent breather. That way if someone who isn’t around to double up a path to clear section 1 of map 5...that path be be cleared with 1 person with little worry.
Absolutely correct, and I actually made this same point earlier but was ignored in the multitude of responses after from both individuals. If the argument is that this game mode is truly special and designed for everyone to get a chance to fight, and the alliances are capped at 30 players, meaning 10 per group available to fight, why aren't there ten paths in every map for alliance quest? The fact that it takes two seconds to debunk any counterargument from these guys only shows they aren't interested in debating or seeing the other side. They see what Kabam says, they use their own seemingly lower tier, strange personal examples as evidence it's somehow harmful for the larger player base, and aren't open to any form of suggestion that this particular game mode could be changed in any way. That is, until Kabam decides to change it, then it will be those same guys holding the water in these exact boards pushing the edict along as fact once again. It's kind of crazy to watch, after lurking all these years and only recently commenting in any form beyond alliance recruitment. I said it before, but it almost reminds me of politicians. When they can't respond or debate a number of points, they take one small point and twist it, deflect and use it to switch the commentary to distract from the fact they aren't sure what they are debating in the first place and the logic is on shaky ground.
There have been probably hundreds of other changes in this game over the last three years. These changes didn't get magically fixed in a vacuum of no player interaction. It was the efforts of people on this forum & in the subs who would tell Kabam it was bothersome, decreasing their fun in the game, and could be made better. Granted, some of those changes took more time & effort than others, but a lot of them happened eventually. If there was no merit to any of them - as is being suggested here in this example, because Kabam "designed them" at conception as such - then why did the company acquiesce & have the player base laud them as welcome quality of life improvements? The person most vocally in support of the status quo on this subject here seems to view a lot of this game in a very black and white fashion. Kabam makes the game; we play the game; Kabam improves the game; the game is improved because of Kabam therefore = kabam is usually right (but in actuality always right). This seems to be the line of thinking, and I'm not being hyperbolic because I've read these interactions for over a year now and I've seen it over and over. As soon as this 30 minute possible timer change would happen (if Kabam did indeed change it permanently) this same person would be making the exact same argument - "kabam said it was working as intended this way, it's designed this way" & nevertheless continuing to parrot the moderators and Kabam. When someone has a history as long and detailed of doing such on these forums, it's hard not to guess this would be exactly what would happen.
So I make my points in detail, and use examples & logic to point out why this change would not only be beneficial but welcome, and not one of my points were answered or debated. Hundreds of comments later they are still arguing about it using the same language & digging deeper. If this were to happen, we all agree that the alliances who somehow didn't want this to happen would need to adapt. Just like the rest of us have to adapt to every other change in this game that wasn't beneficial to our current set up. From one of the supporters comments in another thread, it sounds like the issue isn't 30 minute or hour timers, but losing huge chunks of members for probably another reason entirely, and going by the quality of the comments on here and level of debate and discourse, I would guess it's a systemic issue rather than anything to do with time zones or energy/moves available in this part of the game.
I even made a reddit post asking this same question & got some really varied responses, and really the only argument that closely aligns with the pro-staying 1 hour guys on here is that AQ is supposed to be difficult, hence the 1 hour timers. There's a debate to be had about this, as has been laid out here too - is AQ supposed to be difficult, or is it necessary? Is a game mode that requires everyone to be available for 5 days in a row at multiple times during the day and night to get the amount of resources required to rank champions something people consider fun and a challenge? Isn't that why they have different levels of maps in the first place, to control the level of difficulty? What about changing the energy cap to 6 or 7 or higher to compromise? If it's a matter of everyone WANTING to play this game mode but dealing with time differences and availability, why aren't there always 10 specific paths on each map no matter the skill level required? Kabam designed this mode, no matter what your opinion about it may be, to require your alliance to work together and coordinate. That's a fact, hands down. So what exactly would change in that fact if the timers were altered to favor either more moves or in a quicker time frame? The group would still need to coordinate to make sure everyone plays, everyone in each time zone could participate and that the paths were all taken down. Waiting on people to clear a link because they are asleep doesn't change whether the timer is faster or not. Schedules won't change at all, but the paths assigned and amount of fights and strategy might. Some might view that as a negative, but in every other game mode, they seem just fine with change as long as it's Kabam approved. This shouldn't be any different, and just for once, it would be lovely to see those same people give us a bit of credit for trying instead of just waiting for Kabam to eventually think about it or look at changing a game aspect. And I really wish every single thread I see on here wasn't hijacked by the same people speaking as if they represent the official game or moderators, as I think that's disingenuous and only contributes to the discourse and lack of civility between the players and the game team. If the intent is to help them out or ease the waters, the effect is definitely not anything close to it and in fact the complete opposite.
That's my extremely long two cents and probably the last I'll say on this subject, but I would really appreciate if more players jumped in with their opinions as well, and if someone from Kabam would actually read through all of this. With the state of things lately, I'm sadly gonna guess that won't happen but one can dream.
But who does it create stress for? An alliance that has a guy who doesn't join AQ for the first 10hrs? I don't think 30 min timers are the issue here.
I'd happily never join an AQ again if it meant my alliance locked in 100% of 5x5 each cycle.
It’s not even an issue for the 10 hours late guy. If they are genuinely concerned with his rewards, all they have to do is arrange to leave a node for him.