30 MIN TIMERs HAVE BEEN GREAT

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  • becauseicantbecauseicant Posts: 316 ★★★
    AQ timers are a relic of times past when the game had much less content to keep players engaged. Their purpose is to "force" teamwork, which is accomplished in a sense, but they do so in an artificial and non-interactive way. All they really do is make players wait, usually for hours on end. Waiting is not fun or exciting. There is no interaction with the game, no system or mechanic we can play or experiment with to influence the outcome. It's forced boredom. You Shall Not Pass! (for the next 5 hours!)

    Players are so used to "Waiting" as the main driving force behind AQ that it's very difficult to imagine any other system. There are other ways to implement teamwork (and difficulty) that don't rely on a timer mechanic - and they are already in the game! Linked nodes are a great example of a mechanic that encourages teamwork that is interactive and adds to the gameplay experience rather than detracting from it. Another one is the number of paths which requires a certain number of people to work together to clear a map. These are also interactive in that choosing which path and which heroes to take becomes an interesting choice. Lastly we have bosses and mini-bosses which, if altered in their design, could act as a great meeting point for the battlegroup where everyone has to pitch in a hero and do their share to help bring the boss down.

    We need to think about what AQ represents and what we want the modes design to reinforce. Why is it so focused on time and scheduling as the main component of its difficulty? Is this real difficulty or is it artificial? Is this type of design fun? Does it make me excited to play the game?

    Personally I think a mode that implements teamwork through mechanics that are not time and waiting based would be much better than what we have right now. I would rather the difficulty of AQ come from systems that are interactive and enhance the gameplay such as unique nodes, harder fights overall, linked nodes, and bosses that are actually designed to require multiple people to take down. There is no sense of accomplishment or satisfaction for clearing AQ in its current form. There is almost no skill involved which means players have no investment in the outcome and it becomes a boring slog.



    It's also important to point out examples where Kabam has used time as an effective part of the games design to give some contrast to how they work in AQ:

    1) Legend Runs - Putting aside the iOS vs Android problem, legend runs use time effectively because it creates a new way to play the game. This new way to play (gotta go fast!) is also optional and completely under your control as far as when you choose to start the timer. It gives more options on how to play content without negatively impacting others if you choose not to do it.

    2) Dungeons - This 2 person cooperative game mode puts a time limit on each dungeon floor. The reason it works well for this type of gameplay is twofold. First is that the timer is not initially punishing or unfair. You have plenty of time to read the nodes, decide which to take down, and complete the fights necessary to do so. The further you go the more impact the timer has, and it really starts to add an element of difficulty where both players are balancing how much time they spend preparing and communicating versus rushing in to maximize fight time. It's a slow build that really amps up the tension and excitement when you manage to clear a level JUST before the timer runs out. The second reason is the fact that you and your teammate are both present and active at the same time. The way matchmaking works guarantees it. This ensures that there is no waiting around for your teammate to move forward.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 8,431 Guardian
    AQ timers are a relic of times past when the game had much less content to keep players engaged. Their purpose is to "force" teamwork, which is accomplished in a sense, but they do so in an artificial and non-interactive way.

    Energy timers don't exist for that reason. Energy timers exist in every F2P game in which they exist specifically because players don't want energy timers. That's not a joke, and when that makes sense to you, you're ready to be an F2P mobile game producer.
  • batatobatato Posts: 30
    Meet in the middle....

    Lets get 45 min timers
  • becauseicantbecauseicant Posts: 316 ★★★
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Energy timers don't exist for that reason. Energy timers exist in every F2P game in which they exist specifically because players don't want energy timers. That's not a joke, and when that makes sense to you, you're ready to be an F2P mobile game producer.

    I agree and disagree with you. In general you are correct, F2P games use energy as a frustrating mechanic in the hopes of getting people to spend money to overcome that frustration and/or play the game longer. In the case of AQ, however, timers are not just tacked on to add frustration but instead fulfill two design goals that Kabam had when they introduced the mode 1) Get players logging in multiple times in a day and 2) Force teamwork by making energy gain very slow and limited. Someone at some point in the design of AQ very intentionally thought about how to design a mode with teamwork and decided that energy timers would serve that purpose amongst all the other options they could use (some I listed in my post).

    For more proof that timers don't exist simply because players hate them is this key point: There is absolutely no way to circumvent, influence, ignore, or get rid of the energy timer/system that exists in AQ. You cannot grind to get more energy, you cannot pay to get more energy, you cannot speed up or slow down how much you get in any way. Since this is the case what other reason would Kabam have to implement timers other than it fulfills one of their design goals in some way? Frustrating players with no way for them to intereact or get around it seems to be about the worst possible business decision you could make, and I don't think a company as profit hungry as Kabam would make such a decision. If that's the case then that is even more reason why it should be changed because not only is it hurting the players but it's also not benefiting Kabam. Fixing it can only benefit both parties.
  • LegendJRGLegendJRG Posts: 39
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Energy timers don't exist for that reason. Energy timers exist in every F2P game in which they exist specifically because players don't want energy timers. That's not a joke, and when that makes sense to you, you're ready to be an F2P mobile game producer.

    I agree and disagree with you. In general you are correct, F2P games use energy as a frustrating mechanic in the hopes of getting people to spend money to overcome that frustration and/or play the game longer. In the case of AQ, however, timers are not just tacked on to add frustration but instead fulfill two design goals that Kabam had when they introduced the mode 1) Get players logging in multiple times in a day and 2) Force teamwork by making energy gain very slow and limited. Someone at some point in the design of AQ very intentionally thought about how to design a mode with teamwork and decided that energy timers would serve that purpose amongst all the other options they could use (some I listed in my post).

    For more proof that timers don't exist simply because players hate them is this key point: There is absolutely no way to circumvent, influence, ignore, or get rid of the energy timer/system that exists in AQ. You cannot grind to get more energy, you cannot pay to get more energy, you cannot speed up or slow down how much you get in any way. Since this is the case what other reason would Kabam have to implement timers other than it fulfills one of their design goals in some way? Frustrating players with no way for them to intereact or get around it seems to be about the worst possible business decision you could make, and I don't think a company as profit hungry as Kabam would make such a decision. If that's the case then that is even more reason why it should be changed because not only is it hurting the players but it's also not benefiting Kabam. Fixing it can only benefit both parties.

    Exactly, most of us are hooked at this point too. The original purpose of one hour timers has outlived its purpose. Another solution would be to make normal bracket retain one hour timers, advanced to have 45 min and exper 30 minute timers. Seems like it solves most of the problems and still enforces kabams original intention for them in making us play more.
  • TitoBandito187TitoBandito187 Posts: 551 ★★★
    edited July 2018
    Live life man. MCOC is fun, but shouldn’t be your life line. Enjoy it, play it often, but live life too. There’s a lot more to enjoy out there. Family , friends, hobbies, maybe even work for some. In between, enjoy the 8 hours of AQ, then add in war, EQ and arena. But that is plenty well enough time for this game.
  • MenkentMenkent Posts: 293 ★★
    Another thread derailed by people arguing (fruitlessly, hopelessly, futilely) with a poster who has been flagged for spam and abuse a collective 7400 times (but never banned from the forum to my knowledge). I suggest using the ignore function to prevent this going forward.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 20,457 ★★★★★
    edited July 2018
    First off, I've been out of the conversation a while now. I've had it umpteen times and it never goes anywhere.
    Secondly, disagreeing doesn't derail a Thread. When things go off-topic, when the conversation turns personal, or when it becomes otherwise-inappropriate because people can't agree or disagree in a respectful way, it derails.
    As for Flags, they're abused more often than not. It's not there because you don't like someone, or you disagree with their comments. It's there to notify Mods that something is against the rules. Just because you don't like the points someone is trying to make, doesn't make it Spam. When you have many people abusing them, the number adds up quickly. Besides making work for Moderation and breaking the rules, it really has no effect to do so, other than a counter on a Profile.
    I'm out of it. It's literally been discussed countless times, and will probably result in little understanding because there's a refusal to see the other side.
    Peace.
  • TitoBandito187TitoBandito187 Posts: 551 ★★★
    First off, I've been out of the conversation a while now. I've had it umpteen times and it never goes anywhere.
    Secondly, disagreeing doesn't derail a Thread. When things go off-topic, when the conversation turns personal, or when it becomes otherwise-inappropriate because people can't agree or disagree in a respectful way, it derails.
    As for Flags, they're abused more often than not. It's not there because you don't like someone, or you disagree with their comments. It's there to notify Mods that something is against the rules. Just because you don't like the points someone is trying to make, doesn't make it Spam. When you have many people abusing them, the number adds up quickly. Besides making work for Moderation and breaking the rules, it really has no effect to do so, other than a counter on a Profile.
    I'm out of it. It's literally been discussed countless times, and will probably result in little understanding because there's a refusal to see the other side.
    Peace.

    Speaking of derailed...nice example above @groundedwisdom how to do that.

    We see both sides. We don’t like yours cause it’s nonsensical and completely avoidable.

    As stated before, your ally could simply slow down and not be d-bags to their mates. That’s about the gist of what’s needed to resolve your argument.

    fc9ggste2yc7.gif


  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 20,457 ★★★★★
    edited July 2018
    TL:DR - "The problems of other people don't matter, and you should just make your Ally sit and wait so we can have what we want."

    Precisely why I'm done with the conversation. Please don't tag me in it again.
  • TitoBandito187TitoBandito187 Posts: 551 ★★★
    @GroundedWisdom more nonsense. You’re arguing it’s betterbto wait a full hour because that’s the norm. So if Kabam allows 30m, why can’t you still wait an hour if it makes life better for others in the ally? 1 hour = 30m + 30m.

    Tag. Your it @GroundedWisdom.
  • 30’ timer has been awesome. Helping with burnout has been the primary reason. And no 1h timer is not the normal ANYMORE. When this was indtroduced we didn’t have so much content to deal with, so competitive aw and so many arenas to join in. We already have to login and stay online for so many other reasons, if that’s kabam’s reasoning for keeping the 1h timers.

    The game evolves and so should some aspects of the game. This is a fundamental bidirectional process. I feel that kabam instead of being proactive, prefers to remain stagnant on old ‘values’ that don’t fit the game anymore, just for the shake of existing data on profit. Some players will throw more money to catch up on the game progression but if more feel the burnout, as it appears to be, then this will be a turning point towards game failure.
  • LeNoirFaineantLeNoirFaineant Posts: 4,968 ★★★★★
    Dropfaith wrote: »
    LegendJRG wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Energy timers don't exist for that reason. Energy timers exist in every F2P game in which they exist specifically because players don't want energy timers. That's not a joke, and when that makes sense to you, you're ready to be an F2P mobile game producer.

    I agree and disagree with you. In general you are correct, F2P games use energy as a frustrating mechanic in the hopes of getting people to spend money to overcome that frustration and/or play the game longer. In the case of AQ, however, timers are not just tacked on to add frustration but instead fulfill two design goals that Kabam had when they introduced the mode 1) Get players logging in multiple times in a day and 2) Force teamwork by making energy gain very slow and limited. Someone at some point in the design of AQ very intentionally thought about how to design a mode with teamwork and decided that energy timers would serve that purpose amongst all the other options they could use (some I listed in my post).

    For more proof that timers don't exist simply because players hate them is this key point: There is absolutely no way to circumvent, influence, ignore, or get rid of the energy timer/system that exists in AQ. You cannot grind to get more energy, you cannot pay to get more energy, you cannot speed up or slow down how much you get in any way. Since this is the case what other reason would Kabam have to implement timers other than it fulfills one of their design goals in some way? Frustrating players with no way for them to intereact or get around it seems to be about the worst possible business decision you could make, and I don't think a company as profit hungry as Kabam would make such a decision. If that's the case then that is even more reason why it should be changed because not only is it hurting the players but it's also not benefiting Kabam. Fixing it can only benefit both parties.

    Exactly, most of us are hooked at this point too. The original purpose of one hour timers has outlived its purpose. Another solution would be to make normal bracket retain one hour timers, advanced to have 45 min and exper 30 minute timers. Seems like it solves most of the problems and still enforces kabams original intention for them in making us play more.

    There's only one bracket now it's normal 1 hr timers for everyone.

    My allaince finished map 5 in 8 hrs now I have sqaut.to do till 2 tomorrow ;(

    It's funny that you post so many posts about problems that other people have being their problem. Empathy being a useless human trait. Then you post in the face of 99% of players preferring 30 minute timers with some drivel about you have nothing to do now? Lmao that's a you problem. Since empathy is useless and you are on the wrong side of the vast majority of the player base you don't have a leg to stand on. Fortunately for you Kabam is more interested in making people login more.
  • zeezee57zeezee57 Posts: 1,830 ★★★★
    TL:DR - "The problems of other people don't matter, and you should just make your Ally sit and wait so we can have what we want."

    Precisely why I'm done with the conversation. Please don't tag me in it again.

    I've asked you once before in a different thread that you skipped over, and I ask genuinely and not meant to be disrespectful in any way, but is there any position Kabam has that you disagree with? If so would you mind sharing some here so as to show that you don't simply hold the contrary opinion to almost the entire community just to back Kabam or to be the dissenting opinion?

    On the topic at hand you're argument is that because 30 minute timers would be inconvenient for some, yourself included, they shouldn't be implemented. This despite the fact that a very clear majority hold the opposite position. You label the other side selfish in this argument but wouldn't it be more selfish for the minority to have their position held over a significant majority because that is what's convenient for them?

    30 minute timers allow for far greater game/life balance. You've stated you have lots of time for arena grinding, so clearly waiting to move isn't as detrimental to you as it is to many others. Map 5 requires a whole lot of coordination and for a number of players to be able to play within a similar time frame. For those of us with hectic work/life schedules this becomes difficult, often resulting in having to use work breaks and limited downtime to move so your not holding your teammates hostage by not fulfilling your commitment and taking down your nodes.

    With all thats been said in this thread would you not agree that when a significant majority, literally in the range of 90% of players, ask for 30 minute timers to be the norm to allow for greater life balance, that the minority should work around that and not the other way around?
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 20,457 ★★★★★
    I said I'm out. I've had this discussion more times than I care to, and it gets nowhere. I am not going to keep repeating myself when people aren't hearing me. Continue without me.
  • Hi All!

    This thread has derailed into personal attacks and non-constructive posts. If you have questions about the Forum Rules, you can locate them here. The thread will now be closed.
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