Summoner Appreciation Week Discussion

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Comments

  • ThatweirdguyThatweirdguy Posts: 638 ★★★
    Ace_03 wrote: »


    You mean the same MCOC podcast that got so downvoted they never posted links in reddit ever again?

    Some of the panelists are epitome of confirmation bias. While I believe in freedom of speech, I do have an issue of them thinking they can speak for all fo us. They have clear agendas and as far as I'm concerned they are not part of the community.

    They have the same condescending tone the company uses against, passive-aggressively discrediting and vilifying the community, as if we we're a gathering of uneducated brutes who just try to bully this company.

    They can think however they like, it's their right and I respect it. But IMO, not saying this is set in stone, but they don't have our best interests in mind. For them how to do the right thing, following the "proper channels" and "working with the company" is more important than having our voices heard and bringing about real change by standing up for ourselves, if it was up to them we would still be like the Pure Skill mastery.

    Always ready to being fixed and rectified, but always passed up.

    The UMCOC podcast is fine as long as you understand their intentions. They are Kabam apologists. They are really hoping that Kabam one day involves them somehow. They offer their services to Kabam regularly. They censor their Discord server. Which is fine they can do all that if they want to but nobody should expect an unbiased opinion on their program. I still listen but understand their agenda.
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 2,881 ★★★★★
    Jaffacaked wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Jaffacaked wrote: »
    Technically you presume not assume, there is a slight difference.

    This is linguistically hilarious. But I suppose only to people who enjoy very meta humor.

    Well just another thing you can come to the forum for to make yourself feel superior about. Go play with buddy GW

    You were just trying to make yourself seem superior by correcting him. Seems a tad hypocritical to me.
  • ButtehrsButtehrs Posts: 891 ★★★
    26 pages in this thread and still no kabam Miike input. :(
  • Kobster84Kobster84 Posts: 2,898 ★★★★★
    Palanthrax wrote: »
    Hasn’t anyone noticed yet that the more we ask, the less we get?

    Kabam is teaching us life lessons, in the same way that we teach toddlers to prepare them for the harsh reality of life.

    I see Miike as something of a father figure.

    Daddy...
    Lol but I think the real reason is just for more money
  • IrohrIrohr Posts: 254
    Palanthrax wrote: »
    Hasn’t anyone noticed yet that the more we ask, the less we get?

    Kabam is teaching us life lessons, in the same way that we teach toddlers to prepare them for the harsh reality of life.

    I see Miike as something of a father figure.

    Daddy...

    Yeah he's the Shou Tucker of father's lol
  • DarthPhalDarthPhal Posts: 805 ★★★
    I think people who are surprised that others are still spending on the game are working under the assumption that everyone is experiencing issues to the extent that they are.
  • Noob2435Noob2435 Posts: 626 ★★★
    Have you guys noticed the amount of people banned lately?
  • Ace_03Ace_03 Posts: 747 ★★★★
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Ace_03 wrote: »
    With the return of dungeons also in a diminished form, it seems to me like the company maybe felt they we're being too generous?

    By being more stingy with items and compensation, they not only don't admit any wrongdoing, but also accustom us to expect less. We can't let that happen.

    I don't see a general pattern of the game tightening up rewards. If anything the overall trend is increasing rewards within the game content. And I don't see dungeons as giving out less rewards in terms of rewards per time spent. They constrained how much time we can spend grinding them per day, which ultimately places a lower cap on maximum possible rewards, but that's not consistent with the notion that Kabam is trying to reduce rewards across the board in the game. They were also much more transparent about their design thoughts when it came to dungeons, whether you agree with their design logic or not.

    If anything, dungeons makes the SA announcement seem even more schizophrenic to me. I find the dungeon changes reasonably well thought out and reasonably well explained, even though I personally am not a fan of dungeons. I can see what they were thinking, and I generally agree with the motivations for the changes made, and the changes seem to be a reasonable attempt to implement those changes. Reasonable people can disagree, but at least there's some context for us to discuss that disagreement. Here, we're arguing over whether a "gift" can be "compensation" which is pretty ludicrous.

    All we have is a statement that the stuff in the SA announcement represent both summoner appreciation content as well as "compensation" for, well, stuff. If you believe the compensation is inadequate, the question is: inadequate for what? Is Kabam delivering poor compensation for a wide range of problems, or is Kabam greatly underestimating the problems we've been experiencing, relative to what the average player perceives to have been the problems? And how do we know compensation is inadequate, when Kabam hasn't even announced what the contents of the choose your own gift package are? Why announce something as being compensation for problems and make it a mystery as to what is actually in the thing?

    I am not a conspiracy theory proponent. I don't make unfounded accusations about the motivations of the developer team. But this all smells to me like the SA content was designed *first*, and then someone retroactively decided to make the choose your own gift the 19.x "compensation" after the fact and at the last minute. And that suggests that someone decided not to make an actual compensation package for those problems and tried to punt the problem away. That just feels wrong to me.

    That could very well be, the question also is, why would they refuse to compensate? Maybe it's an image thing, they don't want to look weak in front of us and admit they we're at fault. But that is like a child holding the jar of cookies in their hand, broken.

  • Ace_03 wrote: »


    You mean the same MCOC podcast that got so downvoted they never posted links in reddit ever again?

    Some of the panelists are epitome of confirmation bias. While I believe in freedom of speech, I do have an issue of them thinking they can speak for all fo us. They have clear agendas and as far as I'm concerned they are not part of the community.

    They have the same condescending tone the company uses against, passive-aggressively discrediting and vilifying the community, as if we we're a gathering of uneducated brutes who just try to bully this company.

    They can think however they like, it's their right and I respect it. But IMO, not saying this is set in stone, but they don't have our best interests in mind. For them how to do the right thing, following the "proper channels" and "working with the company" is more important than having our voices heard and bringing about real change by standing up for ourselves, if it was up to them we would still be like the Pure Skill mastery.

    Always ready to being fixed and rectified, but always passed up.

    The UMCOC podcast is fine as long as you understand their intentions. They are Kabam apologists. They are really hoping that Kabam one day involves them somehow. They offer their services to Kabam regularly. They censor their Discord server. Which is fine they can do all that if they want to but nobody should expect an unbiased opinion on their program. I still listen but understand their agenda.

    The only thing we want Kabam to involve us in, is communication...the very thing these *26 pages* are complaining about. I'm not aware of anything else we're wanting from them by way of involvement.

    As far as being apologists, maybe my other co-hosts display more sympathy than others, but I'm pretty open about the sh*t-talking tangents I go on...at least I thought I was.

    Anyway appreciate you listening and I'll probably address this next episode, we're just as unhappy as the rest.
  • ThatweirdguyThatweirdguy Posts: 638 ★★★
    Ace_03 wrote: »


    You mean the same MCOC podcast that got so downvoted they never posted links in reddit ever again?

    Some of the panelists are epitome of confirmation bias. While I believe in freedom of speech, I do have an issue of them thinking they can speak for all fo us. They have clear agendas and as far as I'm concerned they are not part of the community.

    They have the same condescending tone the company uses against, passive-aggressively discrediting and vilifying the community, as if we we're a gathering of uneducated brutes who just try to bully this company.

    They can think however they like, it's their right and I respect it. But IMO, not saying this is set in stone, but they don't have our best interests in mind. For them how to do the right thing, following the "proper channels" and "working with the company" is more important than having our voices heard and bringing about real change by standing up for ourselves, if it was up to them we would still be like the Pure Skill mastery.

    Always ready to being fixed and rectified, but always passed up.

    The UMCOC podcast is fine as long as you understand their intentions. They are Kabam apologists. They are really hoping that Kabam one day involves them somehow. They offer their services to Kabam regularly. They censor their Discord server. Which is fine they can do all that if they want to but nobody should expect an unbiased opinion on their program. I still listen but understand their agenda.

    The only thing we want Kabam to involve us in, is communication...the very thing these *26 pages* are complaining about. I'm not aware of anything else we're wanting from them by way of involvement.

    As far as being apologists, maybe my other co-hosts display more sympathy than others, but I'm pretty open about the sh*t-talking tangents I go on...at least I thought I was.

    Anyway appreciate you listening and I'll probably address this next episode, we're just as unhappy as the rest.

    Fair Bagel, you do seem to be the lone straight shooter in the group.
  • Ace_03Ace_03 Posts: 747 ★★★★
    Ace_03 wrote: »


    You mean the same MCOC podcast that got so downvoted they never posted links in reddit ever again?

    Some of the panelists are epitome of confirmation bias. While I believe in freedom of speech, I do have an issue of them thinking they can speak for all fo us. They have clear agendas and as far as I'm concerned they are not part of the community.

    They have the same condescending tone the company uses against, passive-aggressively discrediting and vilifying the community, as if we we're a gathering of uneducated brutes who just try to bully this company.

    They can think however they like, it's their right and I respect it. But IMO, not saying this is set in stone, but they don't have our best interests in mind. For them how to do the right thing, following the "proper channels" and "working with the company" is more important than having our voices heard and bringing about real change by standing up for ourselves, if it was up to them we would still be like the Pure Skill mastery.

    Always ready to being fixed and rectified, but always passed up.

    The UMCOC podcast is fine as long as you understand their intentions. They are Kabam apologists. They are really hoping that Kabam one day involves them somehow. They offer their services to Kabam regularly. They censor their Discord server. Which is fine they can do all that if they want to but nobody should expect an unbiased opinion on their program. I still listen but understand their agenda.

    The only thing we want Kabam to involve us in, is communication...the very thing these *26 pages* are complaining about. I'm not aware of anything else we're wanting from them by way of involvement.

    As far as being apologists, maybe my other co-hosts display more sympathy than others, but I'm pretty open about the sh*t-talking tangents I go on...at least I thought I was.

    Anyway appreciate you listening and I'll probably address this next episode, we're just as unhappy as the rest.

    Fair Bagel, you do seem to be the lone straight shooter in the group.

    To be even more fair, I think that more predominant voice in the panel tends to drown out the others very strongly. Which is why I tend to focus more on that particular person and the views presented by them.


  • Ace_03 wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Ace_03 wrote: »
    With the return of dungeons also in a diminished form, it seems to me like the company maybe felt they we're being too generous?

    By being more stingy with items and compensation, they not only don't admit any wrongdoing, but also accustom us to expect less. We can't let that happen.

    I don't see a general pattern of the game tightening up rewards. If anything the overall trend is increasing rewards within the game content. And I don't see dungeons as giving out less rewards in terms of rewards per time spent. They constrained how much time we can spend grinding them per day, which ultimately places a lower cap on maximum possible rewards, but that's not consistent with the notion that Kabam is trying to reduce rewards across the board in the game. They were also much more transparent about their design thoughts when it came to dungeons, whether you agree with their design logic or not.

    If anything, dungeons makes the SA announcement seem even more schizophrenic to me. I find the dungeon changes reasonably well thought out and reasonably well explained, even though I personally am not a fan of dungeons. I can see what they were thinking, and I generally agree with the motivations for the changes made, and the changes seem to be a reasonable attempt to implement those changes. Reasonable people can disagree, but at least there's some context for us to discuss that disagreement. Here, we're arguing over whether a "gift" can be "compensation" which is pretty ludicrous.

    All we have is a statement that the stuff in the SA announcement represent both summoner appreciation content as well as "compensation" for, well, stuff. If you believe the compensation is inadequate, the question is: inadequate for what? Is Kabam delivering poor compensation for a wide range of problems, or is Kabam greatly underestimating the problems we've been experiencing, relative to what the average player perceives to have been the problems? And how do we know compensation is inadequate, when Kabam hasn't even announced what the contents of the choose your own gift package are? Why announce something as being compensation for problems and make it a mystery as to what is actually in the thing?

    I am not a conspiracy theory proponent. I don't make unfounded accusations about the motivations of the developer team. But this all smells to me like the SA content was designed *first*, and then someone retroactively decided to make the choose your own gift the 19.x "compensation" after the fact and at the last minute. And that suggests that someone decided not to make an actual compensation package for those problems and tried to punt the problem away. That just feels wrong to me.

    That could very well be, the question also is, why would they refuse to compensate? Maybe it's an image thing, they don't want to look weak in front of us and admit they we're at fault. But that is like a child holding the jar of cookies in their hand, broken.

    People are very unpredictable in the general case, and there are a million possible reasons why anyone does anything, but I can hypothesize. It is possible that the data Kabam had suggested that the problems experienced were so randomly dispersed and so wildly different in impact for different players that there was no possible way to address them with a targeted compensation solution, which is their preferred choice. With that off the table, the question became what, if anything, should be done. "Nothing" is a possibility: when no remedy actually works as compensation, sometimes nothing is the correct thing to do. But another possibility was to offer some moderate value compensation package to everyone, and simply call it a day. That would almost certainly be seen as inadequate by many players, especially those impacted by a higher amount or in avenues of the game other than the ones the compensation package might assist with. And then SA comes along and within it something new that a content developer created. A choose your own gift package that would allow a player to pick which area of the game they would want the most benefit from during the summoner appreciation week. And then someone gets the bright idea to say, hey, that's a good idea for 19.x compensation: make a package that players can choose the contents of, so they will autotune compensation to the parts of the game they were most affected by. And since the thing has already been created, let's just use that. And while that decision is made, absolutely no thought or time is spent changing the content announcement to account for that.

    I'm not saying this happened, and I have no inside knowledge about that. I am also not saying I would do this. Definitely not: I would have warned against this. All I'm saying is that it is possible for human beings to make decisions like this: they do so every day. Globally, these are dumb decisions taken together. But individually, they are exactly what many people do just before they step off a cliff while trying to get a good selfie. Sometimes people are motivated by bad intentions. But sometimes people are just people, doing catastrophically bad things because they simply don't realize the full consequences of their actions. It is what gives NTSB investigators job security.
  • SpicyslicerSpicyslicer Posts: 780 ★★
    So much writing, so many opinions kabam, does not care. We’re so small a market to them. They don’t care.


    They do not care

    More players in south east Asia then all of America combined.


    We’re not special.


    They don’t care
    Why don’t you understand this...
  • ThatweirdguyThatweirdguy Posts: 638 ★★★
    Ace_03 wrote: »
    Ace_03 wrote: »


    You mean the same MCOC podcast that got so downvoted they never posted links in reddit ever again?

    Some of the panelists are epitome of confirmation bias. While I believe in freedom of speech, I do have an issue of them thinking they can speak for all fo us. They have clear agendas and as far as I'm concerned they are not part of the community.

    They have the same condescending tone the company uses against, passive-aggressively discrediting and vilifying the community, as if we we're a gathering of uneducated brutes who just try to bully this company.

    They can think however they like, it's their right and I respect it. But IMO, not saying this is set in stone, but they don't have our best interests in mind. For them how to do the right thing, following the "proper channels" and "working with the company" is more important than having our voices heard and bringing about real change by standing up for ourselves, if it was up to them we would still be like the Pure Skill mastery.

    Always ready to being fixed and rectified, but always passed up.

    The UMCOC podcast is fine as long as you understand their intentions. They are Kabam apologists. They are really hoping that Kabam one day involves them somehow. They offer their services to Kabam regularly. They censor their Discord server. Which is fine they can do all that if they want to but nobody should expect an unbiased opinion on their program. I still listen but understand their agenda.

    The only thing we want Kabam to involve us in, is communication...the very thing these *26 pages* are complaining about. I'm not aware of anything else we're wanting from them by way of involvement.

    As far as being apologists, maybe my other co-hosts display more sympathy than others, but I'm pretty open about the sh*t-talking tangents I go on...at least I thought I was.

    Anyway appreciate you listening and I'll probably address this next episode, we're just as unhappy as the rest.

    Fair Bagel, you do seem to be the lone straight shooter in the group.

    To be even more fair, I think that more predominant voice in the panel tends to drown out the others very strongly. Which is why I tend to focus more on that particular person and the views presented by them.



    Excellent point.
  • More players in south east Asia then all of America combined.

    The data I've seen suggests that more than half of the players are from North America (Canada, US, Mexico) and Europe, and the majority of the revenue comes specifically from the US.
This discussion has been closed.