General Game Feedback [Merged Threads]

Bidzy7 · May 2020

Bugmat78 said:

Story mode should not be end game content. Save that for alternate modes eg variants, and hopefully cavalier EQs.

A game that purports to tell a story 75% of the players can't hear is doing something wrong.

Yeah i agree with this and was something i stated when they first announced act 6 and the removal of 4*s. Story content should the most accessible content in the game.

They should of made Act 6 like variants 2-4 and variants like 6.2-6.4 and adjusted the rewards accordingly.

Variants is basically a repeat of old Monthly EQ but with a higher difficulty which would be effectively Caviler Difficulty.

@Worknprogress
No rewards would be toned down accordingly but they should still offer some form of progression. Just as previous acts have. Which if you look at the variants rewards is exactly what that does.

I often recommend to other players that once they 100% Act 5 work on 100% Variants 2-4 as they help you progress.

TheTalents · May 2020

Worknprogress said:

xNig said:

Notsavage19 said:

xNig said:
Gates were bad idea to test roster breadth. So Kabam went with niche champ as roster breadth check as seen in 6.3/4. With the backlash, both methods were bad ideas.

Did you stop to think that it might not have been Kabam’s issue, but the over-entitlement of the playerbase? And Kabam being a for-profit entity, is forced to cave in to keep their revenue stream ongoing?

Anyway, I would like to hear some constructive criticism from you on how fights can be challenging, and yet provides a roster breadth check, ie if your roster isn’t sufficiently deep enough, you won’t be able to get past the fight without spending a lot of units.
LOL, imagine these nodes.

Unbreakable

The defender takes 90% less damage if the attacker takes damage from the defender's hits. IE: only indestructible champs.

No Pain No Gain

The attacker deals damage only when there are 3 or more damaging debuffs on themselves. IE: only Diablo with suicides, I think.
That’s the same line of thought that went into A6 nodes.

Still can’t find any constructive criticism on HOW the community wants content to be challenging and check for roster depth without making the fights a faceroll.
My preference is looking more at node design that not only punishes you but encourages you to counter or play to the node as opposed to bypassing it with champs like quake. Nodes like icarus and backblast were actually fun bc if you played them correctly you could use them to your benefit. If you screw up you can still get wrecked but if you don't they're actually a large benefit.

I'm not saying use that same type of design repeatedly but the general premise of do this and it can be a large benefit but screw up and your dead is far more enjoyable than just do this or you do no damage

Well said! That is the type of design which is fun and enjoyable which is why variants are so popular or even the grandmaster fight. You follow the rules you get rewarded with higher damage, etc.

SatsuiNoHadou · May 2020

Bidzy7 said:

xNig said:
Gates were bad idea to test roster breadth. So Kabam went with niche champ as roster breadth check as seen in 6.3/4. With the backlash, both methods were bad ideas.

Did you stop to think that it might not have been Kabam’s issue, but the over-entitlement of the playerbase? And Kabam being a for-profit entity, is forced to cave in to keep their revenue stream ongoing?

Anyway, I would like to hear some constructive criticism from you on how fights can be challenging, and yet provides a roster breadth check, ie if your roster isn’t sufficiently deep enough, you won’t be able to get past the fight without spending a lot of units.
I can say the same to you. Did you stop to think that its your issue that you have played and grinded the game so much that content doesn't challenge you because you have so many champions ?

Trying to say the player base is self entitled also holds no merit. Just because you get a handful of people who complain. Majority of players don't even come to forums.

Its pretty simple really don't create these fights which have extremely small counters . E.g. Acid wash Mysterio has 2 counters. KG and Man Thing and i believe Howard the Duck has the ability to apply poison and armor break with his sp2 but its purely random. How is this a good roster check design.
- Swap out Mysterio for some other champion that can be poisoned without Armor break and you now have 12 possible counters.
- You can also change the node to be similar to the do you bleed but poison instead along with the enhanced poison damage node.

Not only does this force players to use a champion that can poison but also isn't overly punishing on RNG and adequately checks a players roster.

Gimme path in 6.4 why have have the 200% power gain on this path. You want players to use regeneration champs which i believe there is around 15 of them that can constantly heal through out a fight ( Not like Voodoo). The power gain literally forces players to now use a a even smaller pool of champs. Magic ( Awakened maybe work unawakened not sure) being by far the best choice. Other champs that others have made work are Sorcerer Supreme BWCV and blade and just parry and regen. Again how is this actually a roster check when the counters are 4 champs out of 176.

Same path whats the point in putting spectre on the VTD ? what champion heals and ignores spectre that can manage power gain ( as regen buff will also trigger prey on the weak plus 200% power gain).

there is countless type of these fights with node combinations through out act 6 and i'm not going to list them all.

Now tell me how these fights/paths don't serve to punish players on poor RNG to get past. Tell me how this is good content design

This is where you’re so wrong. With suicides and willpower, as long as you’re healing any champ can do proper amounts of active damage on gimme. Have you ever heard of the Corvus cheese? He’s not an uncommon champ in the rosters of those who are attempting act 6 either.

GroundedWisdom · May 2020

Bugmat78 said:

xNig said:

Bidzy7 said:

xNig said:

Your LOL example is the PERFECT example.

End game content should ALWAYS be the hardest content for the end game players. LOL was introduced before Spark, Aegon or NF. It was hard as hell when first introduced. As time goes by, rosters get better and new champs get introduced, making the content easier. That’s the whole idea.

Act 6 is similar. It’s hard as hell for people’s rosters now. But as time passes, it’ll get easier.

People are just complaining because they can’t do it NOW when they “think” they’re “end game” and the content was designed for them. It’s not.

That's great

but what does that have to do with the topic we have been discussing which is related to restricting players rosters with gates and having niche fights that require a handful of counters which is only available via RNG crystals.
As i have said over and over again this is not fun content design. The guy who posted about the fight using blade, didn't say its too difficult, he bemoaned that its not fun content.

At no point have i said Act 6 is too difficult.

My example above was to illustrate the difference in the difficulty of content based on champions. So people saying content isn't challenging enough but using champions like Ghost, Corvus, Aegon etc is a moot point.
Restricting players rosters with gates and niche fights = requiring you to have certain champs to be able to clear it easier = roster breadth.

Of course it’s not fun to trudge through a fight using a champ that’s the fight is not designed for.

The reason why people think Variants (except V1) is “fun” content is because they are EASY.
Story mode should not be end game content. Save that for alternate modes eg variants, and hopefully cavalier EQs.

A game that purports to tell a story 75% of the players can't hear is doing something wrong.

Problem is when it's first released, it IS End-Game. That's the target. It's not really aimed at 75% of the Players. When you release something intended to be the next level, it has to have the next level in mind. It also has to have longevity in mind as well because it's permanent content that people will need to work towards over time. They may have overshot it in some ways, but the goal was right.

SatsuiNoHadou · May 2020

Worknprogress said:

Bidzy7 said:

xNig said:
Gates were bad idea to test roster breadth. So Kabam went with niche champ as roster breadth check as seen in 6.3/4. With the backlash, both methods were bad ideas.

Did you stop to think that it might not have been Kabam’s issue, but the over-entitlement of the playerbase? And Kabam being a for-profit entity, is forced to cave in to keep their revenue stream ongoing?

Anyway, I would like to hear some constructive criticism from you on how fights can be challenging, and yet provides a roster breadth check, ie if your roster isn’t sufficiently deep enough, you won’t be able to get past the fight without spending a lot of units.
I can say the same to you. Did you stop to think that its your issue that you have played and grinded the game so much that content doesn't challenge you because you have so many champions ?

Trying to say the player base is self entitled also holds no merit. Just because you get a handful of people who complain. Majority of players don't even come to forums.

Its pretty simple really don't create these fights which have extremely small counters . E.g. Acid wash Mysterio has 2 counters. KG and Man Thing and i believe Howard the Duck has the ability to apply poison and armor break with his sp2 but its purely random. How is this a good roster check design.
- Swap out Mysterio for some other champion that can be poisoned without Armor break and you now have 12 possible counters.
- You can also change the node to be similar to the do you bleed but poison instead along with the enhanced poison damage node.

Not only does this force players to use a champion that can poison but also isn't overly punishing on RNG and adequately checks a players roster.

Gimme path in 6.4 why have have the 200% power gain on this path. You want players to use regeneration champs which i believe there is around 15 of them that can constantly heal through out a fight ( Not like Voodoo). The power gain literally forces players to now use a a even smaller pool of champs. Magic ( Awakened maybe work unawakened not sure) being by far the best choice. Other champs that others have made work are Sorcerer Supreme BWCV and blade and just parry and regen. Again how is this actually a roster check when the counters are 4 champs out of 176.

Same path whats the point in putting spectre on the VTD ? what champion heals and ignores spectre that can manage power gain ( as regen buff will also trigger prey on the weak plus 200% power gain).

there is countless type of these fights with node combinations through out act 6 and i'm not going to list them all.

Now tell me how these fights/paths don't serve to punish players on poor RNG to get past. Tell me how this is good content design
Magik with suicides is one of the top counters to that gimme path. It's who I used. I did it before cheesing VtD with Nick Fury was as widely known as it is now so I basically let his buffs expire and used MD to get as close to sp2 as possible to get the fight under control early. The heal from limbo after recoil gave you some solid damage. It was a rough path regardless and antman in particular wasn't fun

And you didn’t think to use CG? I thought you had a stacked roster. Seems like you didn’t research enough.

SatsuiNoHadou · May 2020

Bidzy7 said:
@xNig
you're the one who should read previous posts. You argue act 6 is fine people are just not ready for it as they need roster depth and then when i give you examples of bad fights and you are like yeah i said they over did it.

I swear man you are just trolling. We already had the discussion that you can do those fights just ends up taking along time and isn't fun. I ended up doing it with NF as i didn't have KG.

nah i would say majority of players didn't think Gimme path was fine. feel free to run a poll and prove me wrong on that. The power gain on that path is over the top. Basically forces everyone to use Magic because forget about dexing 30-40 specials in a fight from champions like Bishop, SS etc.

xNig said:

It’s not poor rng. It’s just an underdeveloped roster trying to push content in the guise of “bad rng”.
Again explain to me how a person is supposed to get a particular counter such as KG for mysterio ? Where is this magical place where i can work on getting the champ so i can rank him up to use for this fight.

I'm done talking with you. You just don't get it.

So for all this time that you’ve been playing, for all these years, what you’re saying is that you don’t have access to CG that makes this path a complete cakewalk? The amount of players attempting endgame content like act 6.4 with a 5 or 6* CG would significantly exceed those without at least a 5* CG. I reckon the ratio to be 3:2 at least.

Worknprogress · May 2020

Akumaccb said:

Worknprogress said:

Bidzy7 said:

xNig said:
Gates were bad idea to test roster breadth. So Kabam went with niche champ as roster breadth check as seen in 6.3/4. With the backlash, both methods were bad ideas.

Did you stop to think that it might not have been Kabam’s issue, but the over-entitlement of the playerbase? And Kabam being a for-profit entity, is forced to cave in to keep their revenue stream ongoing?

Anyway, I would like to hear some constructive criticism from you on how fights can be challenging, and yet provides a roster breadth check, ie if your roster isn’t sufficiently deep enough, you won’t be able to get past the fight without spending a lot of units.
I can say the same to you. Did you stop to think that its your issue that you have played and grinded the game so much that content doesn't challenge you because you have so many champions ?

Trying to say the player base is self entitled also holds no merit. Just because you get a handful of people who complain. Majority of players don't even come to forums.

Its pretty simple really don't create these fights which have extremely small counters . E.g. Acid wash Mysterio has 2 counters. KG and Man Thing and i believe Howard the Duck has the ability to apply poison and armor break with his sp2 but its purely random. How is this a good roster check design.
- Swap out Mysterio for some other champion that can be poisoned without Armor break and you now have 12 possible counters.
- You can also change the node to be similar to the do you bleed but poison instead along with the enhanced poison damage node.

Not only does this force players to use a champion that can poison but also isn't overly punishing on RNG and adequately checks a players roster.

Gimme path in 6.4 why have have the 200% power gain on this path. You want players to use regeneration champs which i believe there is around 15 of them that can constantly heal through out a fight ( Not like Voodoo). The power gain literally forces players to now use a a even smaller pool of champs. Magic ( Awakened maybe work unawakened not sure) being by far the best choice. Other champs that others have made work are Sorcerer Supreme BWCV and blade and just parry and regen. Again how is this actually a roster check when the counters are 4 champs out of 176.

Same path whats the point in putting spectre on the VTD ? what champion heals and ignores spectre that can manage power gain ( as regen buff will also trigger prey on the weak plus 200% power gain).

there is countless type of these fights with node combinations through out act 6 and i'm not going to list them all.

Now tell me how these fights/paths don't serve to punish players on poor RNG to get past. Tell me how this is good content design
Magik with suicides is one of the top counters to that gimme path. It's who I used. I did it before cheesing VtD with Nick Fury was as widely known as it is now so I basically let his buffs expire and used MD to get as close to sp2 as possible to get the fight under control early. The heal from limbo after recoil gave you some solid damage. It was a rough path regardless and antman in particular wasn't fun
And you didn’t think to use CG? I thought you had a stacked roster. Seems like you didn’t research enough.

I didn't research at all really. I wasn't doing a legends run. I'd rather figure it out on my own. Magik is far better for that path than corvus anyway. Where's the fun in just having other people tell you who to use and where in a game like this?

Bugmat78 · May 2020

naikavon said:
I've seen the expression "end game" content bandied about quite a bit here lately. I find the term fascinating.

What makes certain content "end game"? I suspect it will mean different things to different people.

One common interpretation is that end game content is the latest content to drop. Clearly abyss falls into this category. However, I suspect act 6 in many eyes should also squarely fall into the terminology of end game. I'm not sure why that feeling is held though.

Indulge me for a moment. Defining whether something is end game or not can't simply be about the timing of its creation. It's the latest content made so...it must be end game. Monthly eq's are a constant addition to the game and several have dropped since act 6. Surely no one would argue monthly EQ's are end game. So maybe it's something more than just timing.

I'm more inclined to lean design philosophy. The devs create the content to be attacked by more robust rosters. That tends to make it for "end game" players in my eyes. Except, I think it is a mistake by the devs and end game players alike accepting it

Here's why. Designing progressional content for a portion of the player base will ultimately wean the game of its player base foundation either due to boredom, frustration or simply the belief it's too hard. Even if you don't believe the last statement to be true consider another issue with it: devs can't possibly design content to keep the end game player engaged.

Take abyss. It was supposed to be the content that took potentially six months to a year to complete. They had the top 300 in what a couple weeks? Maybe. That will always be the case. End game players will smash out new content within a short span of its release and pine for more. It's not really a sustainable method. Wait around for the next piece of content as a player and develop end game stuff at a break neck pace. Sounds fun lol.

So now the game stops retaining players and the end game players start to leave becuase there's nothing for them to do because content doesn't drop fast enough. Meanwhile the masses fall ever further behind because the content hasn't been created for them. So why bother. More leave.

The answer is not content driven stuff. It is competition. I've been at the very pinnacle of end game stuff in many games. E-pen is very very real.

Design progressional content for the masses and create end game competition for the end game player. Flexing against competition is far more engaging to end game players. I mean THAT is the point of building up one's roster.

In my humble opinion, end game players have been and continue to sell themselves short seeking content as their great whale. You need a better alliance competitive mode. Again, just my opinion but I've been there and done that. There point of a huge roster isn't about tackling content... but about competition.

Have a great day

I'm in total agreement with this post as a mid level tier player. Well put.

Worknprogress · May 2020

You're talking like every player should play like it's a legends run with max champ and power boosts constantly. That's just silly

xNig · May 2020

Bidzy7 said:
@xNig
you're the one who should read previous posts. You argue act 6 is fine people are just not ready for it as they need roster depth and then when i give you examples of bad fights and you are like yeah i said they over did it.

I swear man you are just trolling. We already had the discussion that you can do those fights just ends up taking along time and isn't fun. I ended up doing it with NF as i didn't have KG.

nah i would say majority of players didn't think Gimme path was fine. feel free to run a poll and prove me wrong on that. The power gain on that path is over the top. Basically forces everyone to use Magic because forget about dexing 30-40 specials in a fight from champions like Bishop, SS etc.

xNig said:

It’s not poor rng. It’s just an underdeveloped roster trying to push content in the guise of “bad rng”.
Again explain to me how a person is supposed to get a particular counter such as KG for mysterio ? Where is this magical place where i can work on getting the champ so i can rank him up to use for this fight.

I'm done talking with you. You just don't get it.

Man.. just feels like I’m talking to a mid tier player who is complaining that hard content is too hard to smash through with his roster and should be toned down to make it easier for him to clear it.

All it takes is some perseverance and/or skill. I don’t have Man Thing for that Acid Wash Mysterio fight as well. Guess what? I got through it with Blade with GR synergy. Others have got through it with SL/G99 and I’m sure, other counters.

If you want to clear the content that badly, then show some spine and stop asking for it to be made easier.

Bidzy7 · May 2020

Akumaccb said:

Bidzy7 said:

xNig said:
Gates were bad idea to test roster breadth. So Kabam went with niche champ as roster breadth check as seen in 6.3/4. With the backlash, both methods were bad ideas.

Did you stop to think that it might not have been Kabam’s issue, but the over-entitlement of the playerbase? And Kabam being a for-profit entity, is forced to cave in to keep their revenue stream ongoing?

Anyway, I would like to hear some constructive criticism from you on how fights can be challenging, and yet provides a roster breadth check, ie if your roster isn’t sufficiently deep enough, you won’t be able to get past the fight without spending a lot of units.
I can say the same to you. Did you stop to think that its your issue that you have played and grinded the game so much that content doesn't challenge you because you have so many champions ?

Trying to say the player base is self entitled also holds no merit. Just because you get a handful of people who complain. Majority of players don't even come to forums.

Its pretty simple really don't create these fights which have extremely small counters . E.g. Acid wash Mysterio has 2 counters. KG and Man Thing and i believe Howard the Duck has the ability to apply poison and armor break with his sp2 but its purely random. How is this a good roster check design.
- Swap out Mysterio for some other champion that can be poisoned without Armor break and you now have 12 possible counters.
- You can also change the node to be similar to the do you bleed but poison instead along with the enhanced poison damage node.

Not only does this force players to use a champion that can poison but also isn't overly punishing on RNG and adequately checks a players roster.

Gimme path in 6.4 why have have the 200% power gain on this path. You want players to use regeneration champs which i believe there is around 15 of them that can constantly heal through out a fight ( Not like Voodoo). The power gain literally forces players to now use a a even smaller pool of champs. Magic ( Awakened maybe work unawakened not sure) being by far the best choice. Other champs that others have made work are Sorcerer Supreme BWCV and blade and just parry and regen. Again how is this actually a roster check when the counters are 4 champs out of 176.

Same path whats the point in putting spectre on the VTD ? what champion heals and ignores spectre that can manage power gain ( as regen buff will also trigger prey on the weak plus 200% power gain).

there is countless type of these fights with node combinations through out act 6 and i'm not going to list them all.

Now tell me how these fights/paths don't serve to punish players on poor RNG to get past. Tell me how this is good content design
This is where you’re so wrong. With suicides and willpower, as long as you’re healing any champ can do proper amounts of active damage on gimme. Have you ever heard of the Corvus cheese? He’s not an uncommon champ in the rosters of those who are attempting act 6 either.

Lol this is so laughable.

I only pulled Corvus like a month ago. Guess i'm now ready for act 6 right

Oh wait

I have 100% 6.1
70% 6.2
100% 6.3
19% 6.4

all without Corvus.

You guys are basically using the same champs to complete content. Then complaining about difficulty. Corvus, Aegon, Ghost, Quake are in a league of their own in terms of dealing with most stuff in game compared to other champs

Also your suggestion is to abuse a bug to complete this path ?

It clearly says in the node description that it Reduces all damage from other sources by 75% yet because of Suicides and Willpower it allows you to do normal damage because you are healing and striking. Well done you found a way to go around a node design without dealing with the node.

I bet you probably did the Mysterio fight with the cosmic buff being bugged too right. Just Corvus steam rolling through it.

How did you deal with VTD ? Probably just used the Nick fury cheese. Wow guys this content is so easy just let VTD kill you and you can totally bypass the fight and not deal with it.

personally don't use suicides and never bothered to unlock them. But i guess i'm not ready for act 6 content right >.>

Unio77 · May 2020

Thread feels like its starting to go off the rails

Worknprogress · May 2020

Bidzy7 said:

Akumaccb said:

Bidzy7 said:

xNig said:
Gates were bad idea to test roster breadth. So Kabam went with niche champ as roster breadth check as seen in 6.3/4. With the backlash, both methods were bad ideas.

Did you stop to think that it might not have been Kabam’s issue, but the over-entitlement of the playerbase? And Kabam being a for-profit entity, is forced to cave in to keep their revenue stream ongoing?

Anyway, I would like to hear some constructive criticism from you on how fights can be challenging, and yet provides a roster breadth check, ie if your roster isn’t sufficiently deep enough, you won’t be able to get past the fight without spending a lot of units.
I can say the same to you. Did you stop to think that its your issue that you have played and grinded the game so much that content doesn't challenge you because you have so many champions ?

Trying to say the player base is self entitled also holds no merit. Just because you get a handful of people who complain. Majority of players don't even come to forums.

Its pretty simple really don't create these fights which have extremely small counters . E.g. Acid wash Mysterio has 2 counters. KG and Man Thing and i believe Howard the Duck has the ability to apply poison and armor break with his sp2 but its purely random. How is this a good roster check design.
- Swap out Mysterio for some other champion that can be poisoned without Armor break and you now have 12 possible counters.
- You can also change the node to be similar to the do you bleed but poison instead along with the enhanced poison damage node.

Not only does this force players to use a champion that can poison but also isn't overly punishing on RNG and adequately checks a players roster.

Gimme path in 6.4 why have have the 200% power gain on this path. You want players to use regeneration champs which i believe there is around 15 of them that can constantly heal through out a fight ( Not like Voodoo). The power gain literally forces players to now use a a even smaller pool of champs. Magic ( Awakened maybe work unawakened not sure) being by far the best choice. Other champs that others have made work are Sorcerer Supreme BWCV and blade and just parry and regen. Again how is this actually a roster check when the counters are 4 champs out of 176.

Same path whats the point in putting spectre on the VTD ? what champion heals and ignores spectre that can manage power gain ( as regen buff will also trigger prey on the weak plus 200% power gain).

there is countless type of these fights with node combinations through out act 6 and i'm not going to list them all.

Now tell me how these fights/paths don't serve to punish players on poor RNG to get past. Tell me how this is good content design
This is where you’re so wrong. With suicides and willpower, as long as you’re healing any champ can do proper amounts of active damage on gimme. Have you ever heard of the Corvus cheese? He’s not an uncommon champ in the rosters of those who are attempting act 6 either.

Lol this is so laughable.

I only pulled Corvus like a month ago. Guess i'm now ready for act 6 right

Oh wait

I have 100% 6.1
70% 6.2
100% 6.3
19% 6.4

all without Corvus.

You guys are basically using the same champs to complete content. Then complaining about difficulty. Corvus, Aegon, Ghost, Quake are in a league of their own in terms of dealing with most stuff in game compared to other champs

Also your suggestion is to abuse a bug to complete this path ?

It clearly says in the node description that it Reduces all damage from other sources by 75% yet because of Suicides and Willpower it allows you to do normal damage because you are healing and striking. Well done you found a way to go around a node design without dealing with the node.

I bet you probably did the Mysterio fight with the cosmic buff being bugged too right. Just Corvus steam rolling through it.

How did you deal with VTD ? Probably just used the Nick fury cheese. Wow guys this content is so easy just let VTD kill you and you can totally bypass the fight and not deal with it.

personally don't use suicides and never bothered to unlock them. But i guess i'm not ready for act 6 content right >.>

To be fair, mastery investments are not an unreasonable expectation of players by that point in the game.

Bidzy7 · May 2020

Akumaccb said:

Worknprogress said:

Bidzy7 said:

xNig said:
Gates were bad idea to test roster breadth. So Kabam went with niche champ as roster breadth check as seen in 6.3/4. With the backlash, both methods were bad ideas.

Did you stop to think that it might not have been Kabam’s issue, but the over-entitlement of the playerbase? And Kabam being a for-profit entity, is forced to cave in to keep their revenue stream ongoing?

Anyway, I would like to hear some constructive criticism from you on how fights can be challenging, and yet provides a roster breadth check, ie if your roster isn’t sufficiently deep enough, you won’t be able to get past the fight without spending a lot of units.
I can say the same to you. Did you stop to think that its your issue that you have played and grinded the game so much that content doesn't challenge you because you have so many champions ?

Trying to say the player base is self entitled also holds no merit. Just because you get a handful of people who complain. Majority of players don't even come to forums.

Its pretty simple really don't create these fights which have extremely small counters . E.g. Acid wash Mysterio has 2 counters. KG and Man Thing and i believe Howard the Duck has the ability to apply poison and armor break with his sp2 but its purely random. How is this a good roster check design.
- Swap out Mysterio for some other champion that can be poisoned without Armor break and you now have 12 possible counters.
- You can also change the node to be similar to the do you bleed but poison instead along with the enhanced poison damage node.

Not only does this force players to use a champion that can poison but also isn't overly punishing on RNG and adequately checks a players roster.

Gimme path in 6.4 why have have the 200% power gain on this path. You want players to use regeneration champs which i believe there is around 15 of them that can constantly heal through out a fight ( Not like Voodoo). The power gain literally forces players to now use a a even smaller pool of champs. Magic ( Awakened maybe work unawakened not sure) being by far the best choice. Other champs that others have made work are Sorcerer Supreme BWCV and blade and just parry and regen. Again how is this actually a roster check when the counters are 4 champs out of 176.

Same path whats the point in putting spectre on the VTD ? what champion heals and ignores spectre that can manage power gain ( as regen buff will also trigger prey on the weak plus 200% power gain).

there is countless type of these fights with node combinations through out act 6 and i'm not going to list them all.

Now tell me how these fights/paths don't serve to punish players on poor RNG to get past. Tell me how this is good content design
Magik with suicides is one of the top counters to that gimme path. It's who I used. I did it before cheesing VtD with Nick Fury was as widely known as it is now so I basically let his buffs expire and used MD to get as close to sp2 as possible to get the fight under control early. The heal from limbo after recoil gave you some solid damage. It was a rough path regardless and antman in particular wasn't fun
And you didn’t think to use CG? I thought you had a stacked roster. Seems like you didn’t research enough.

Lol so because he doesn't have a CG he doesn't have a stacked roster. You guys seriously need a rain check. You have become so reliant on the those few champs like corvus that thats your answer to everything.

You know who else didn't have CG for a very very long time ? BG and that guys plays the game as a job. But of course its not because of RNG its because he didn't develop his roster right

Bidzy7 · May 2020

Worknprogress said:

Bidzy7 said:

Akumaccb said:

Bidzy7 said:

xNig said:
Gates were bad idea to test roster breadth. So Kabam went with niche champ as roster breadth check as seen in 6.3/4. With the backlash, both methods were bad ideas.

Did you stop to think that it might not have been Kabam’s issue, but the over-entitlement of the playerbase? And Kabam being a for-profit entity, is forced to cave in to keep their revenue stream ongoing?

Anyway, I would like to hear some constructive criticism from you on how fights can be challenging, and yet provides a roster breadth check, ie if your roster isn’t sufficiently deep enough, you won’t be able to get past the fight without spending a lot of units.
I can say the same to you. Did you stop to think that its your issue that you have played and grinded the game so much that content doesn't challenge you because you have so many champions ?

Trying to say the player base is self entitled also holds no merit. Just because you get a handful of people who complain. Majority of players don't even come to forums.

Its pretty simple really don't create these fights which have extremely small counters . E.g. Acid wash Mysterio has 2 counters. KG and Man Thing and i believe Howard the Duck has the ability to apply poison and armor break with his sp2 but its purely random. How is this a good roster check design.
- Swap out Mysterio for some other champion that can be poisoned without Armor break and you now have 12 possible counters.
- You can also change the node to be similar to the do you bleed but poison instead along with the enhanced poison damage node.

Not only does this force players to use a champion that can poison but also isn't overly punishing on RNG and adequately checks a players roster.

Gimme path in 6.4 why have have the 200% power gain on this path. You want players to use regeneration champs which i believe there is around 15 of them that can constantly heal through out a fight ( Not like Voodoo). The power gain literally forces players to now use a a even smaller pool of champs. Magic ( Awakened maybe work unawakened not sure) being by far the best choice. Other champs that others have made work are Sorcerer Supreme BWCV and blade and just parry and regen. Again how is this actually a roster check when the counters are 4 champs out of 176.

Same path whats the point in putting spectre on the VTD ? what champion heals and ignores spectre that can manage power gain ( as regen buff will also trigger prey on the weak plus 200% power gain).

there is countless type of these fights with node combinations through out act 6 and i'm not going to list them all.

Now tell me how these fights/paths don't serve to punish players on poor RNG to get past. Tell me how this is good content design
This is where you’re so wrong. With suicides and willpower, as long as you’re healing any champ can do proper amounts of active damage on gimme. Have you ever heard of the Corvus cheese? He’s not an uncommon champ in the rosters of those who are attempting act 6 either.

Lol this is so laughable.

I only pulled Corvus like a month ago. Guess i'm now ready for act 6 right

Oh wait

I have 100% 6.1
70% 6.2
100% 6.3
19% 6.4

all without Corvus.

You guys are basically using the same champs to complete content. Then complaining about difficulty. Corvus, Aegon, Ghost, Quake are in a league of their own in terms of dealing with most stuff in game compared to other champs

Also your suggestion is to abuse a bug to complete this path ?

It clearly says in the node description that it Reduces all damage from other sources by 75% yet because of Suicides and Willpower it allows you to do normal damage because you are healing and striking. Well done you found a way to go around a node design without dealing with the node.

I bet you probably did the Mysterio fight with the cosmic buff being bugged too right. Just Corvus steam rolling through it.

How did you deal with VTD ? Probably just used the Nick fury cheese. Wow guys this content is so easy just let VTD kill you and you can totally bypass the fight and not deal with it.

personally don't use suicides and never bothered to unlock them. But i guess i'm not ready for act 6 content right >.>

To be fair, mastery investments are not an unreasonable expectation of players by that point in the game.

i didn't say it was, but its also not a mandatory thing to have them unlocked. Just like Coagulate and many other mastery's.

Also i don't need them to get past this content. I Have Magic.

But the advice to use a bug to get around content just leads to issues such as MS and BWCV where people who have no interest in unlocking said masteries doing so and finding out this method no longer works. Is that really what should be promted as the way to deal with this path

BigPoppaCBONE · May 2020

If there's a main progressional storyline, its completion shouldn't be endgame content. You should be able to tackle the main storyline with what you get from the main storyline with some skill. Any optional side stories should be a bonus, not essential, and that can be endgame content. If Kabam stuck to the 1 nodeless path idea, it could have worked out. What's considered "the easy path" in many cases, the nodes just make it annoying because it limits your choices without making the content actually more difficult.

I'd push for per path reward chests (on the paths with the current nodes and with 1 nodeless path) that still add up to the existing total rewards. That way the overall rewards haven't changed at all, there's value in approaching it over time vs not getting anything unless you 100% and I (and many others) are saying Funk Dat 100% foolishness.

Bidzy7 · May 2020

xNig said:

Bidzy7 said:
@xNig
you're the one who should read previous posts. You argue act 6 is fine people are just not ready for it as they need roster depth and then when i give you examples of bad fights and you are like yeah i said they over did it.

I swear man you are just trolling. We already had the discussion that you can do those fights just ends up taking along time and isn't fun. I ended up doing it with NF as i didn't have KG.

nah i would say majority of players didn't think Gimme path was fine. feel free to run a poll and prove me wrong on that. The power gain on that path is over the top. Basically forces everyone to use Magic because forget about dexing 30-40 specials in a fight from champions like Bishop, SS etc.

xNig said:

It’s not poor rng. It’s just an underdeveloped roster trying to push content in the guise of “bad rng”.
Again explain to me how a person is supposed to get a particular counter such as KG for mysterio ? Where is this magical place where i can work on getting the champ so i can rank him up to use for this fight.

I'm done talking with you. You just don't get it.

Man.. just feels like I’m talking to a mid tier player who is complaining that hard content is too hard to smash through with his roster and should be toned down to make it easier for him to clear it.

All it takes is some perseverance and/or skill. I don’t have Man Thing for that Acid Wash Mysterio fight as well. Guess what? I got through it with Blade with GR synergy. Others have got through it with SL/G99 and I’m sure, other counters.

If you want to clear the content that badly, then show some spine and stop asking for it to be made easier.

hm at no point have i said it was too hard for me. I have always had the same stance that the content design isn't fun.

You need to spend less time in the game because you are losing the ability to read. Also that your default response to everything is always "They just complaining because its too hard for them."

If i want to i can 100% act 6 right now. I Don't because its not fun just like the guy who posted about the blade fight. i have no interest in doing 400+ hit fights.

I'll have abyss done in a few weeks.

Not bad for a mid tier player right

Bidzy7 · May 2020

Unio77 said:
Thread feels like its starting to go off the rails

probably will get cleaned up

SatsuiNoHadou · May 2020

Bidzy7 said:

Akumaccb said:

Bidzy7 said:

xNig said:
Gates were bad idea to test roster breadth. So Kabam went with niche champ as roster breadth check as seen in 6.3/4. With the backlash, both methods were bad ideas.

Did you stop to think that it might not have been Kabam’s issue, but the over-entitlement of the playerbase? And Kabam being a for-profit entity, is forced to cave in to keep their revenue stream ongoing?

Anyway, I would like to hear some constructive criticism from you on how fights can be challenging, and yet provides a roster breadth check, ie if your roster isn’t sufficiently deep enough, you won’t be able to get past the fight without spending a lot of units.
I can say the same to you. Did you stop to think that its your issue that you have played and grinded the game so much that content doesn't challenge you because you have so many champions ?

Trying to say the player base is self entitled also holds no merit. Just because you get a handful of people who complain. Majority of players don't even come to forums.

Its pretty simple really don't create these fights which have extremely small counters . E.g. Acid wash Mysterio has 2 counters. KG and Man Thing and i believe Howard the Duck has the ability to apply poison and armor break with his sp2 but its purely random. How is this a good roster check design.
- Swap out Mysterio for some other champion that can be poisoned without Armor break and you now have 12 possible counters.
- You can also change the node to be similar to the do you bleed but poison instead along with the enhanced poison damage node.

Not only does this force players to use a champion that can poison but also isn't overly punishing on RNG and adequately checks a players roster.

Gimme path in 6.4 why have have the 200% power gain on this path. You want players to use regeneration champs which i believe there is around 15 of them that can constantly heal through out a fight ( Not like Voodoo). The power gain literally forces players to now use a a even smaller pool of champs. Magic ( Awakened maybe work unawakened not sure) being by far the best choice. Other champs that others have made work are Sorcerer Supreme BWCV and blade and just parry and regen. Again how is this actually a roster check when the counters are 4 champs out of 176.

Same path whats the point in putting spectre on the VTD ? what champion heals and ignores spectre that can manage power gain ( as regen buff will also trigger prey on the weak plus 200% power gain).

there is countless type of these fights with node combinations through out act 6 and i'm not going to list them all.

Now tell me how these fights/paths don't serve to punish players on poor RNG to get past. Tell me how this is good content design
This is where you’re so wrong. With suicides and willpower, as long as you’re healing any champ can do proper amounts of active damage on gimme. Have you ever heard of the Corvus cheese? He’s not an uncommon champ in the rosters of those who are attempting act 6 either.

Lol this is so laughable.

I only pulled Corvus like a month ago. Guess i'm now ready for act 6 right

Oh wait

I have 100% 6.1
70% 6.2
100% 6.3
19% 6.4

all without Corvus.

You guys are basically using the same champs to complete content. Then complaining about difficulty. Corvus, Aegon, Ghost, Quake are in a league of their own in terms of dealing with most stuff in game compared to other champs

Also your suggestion is to abuse a bug to complete this path ?

It clearly says in the node description that it Reduces all damage from other sources by 75% yet because of Suicides and Willpower it allows you to do normal damage because you are healing and striking. Well done you found a way to go around a node design without dealing with the node.

I bet you probably did the Mysterio fight with the cosmic buff being bugged too right. Just Corvus steam rolling through it.

How did you deal with VTD ? Probably just used the Nick fury cheese. Wow guys this content is so easy just let VTD kill you and you can totally bypass the fight and not deal with it.

personally don't use suicides and never bothered to unlock them. But i guess i'm not ready for act 6 content right >.>

Oh my what false accusations you like to lobby, guess my multiple act 6.1, 6.3 and 6.4 Legends mean I’m not a knowledgeable player who knows my stuff.

Worknprogress · May 2020

Bidzy7 said:

Worknprogress said:

Bidzy7 said:

Akumaccb said:

Bidzy7 said:

xNig said:
Gates were bad idea to test roster breadth. So Kabam went with niche champ as roster breadth check as seen in 6.3/4. With the backlash, both methods were bad ideas.

Did you stop to think that it might not have been Kabam’s issue, but the over-entitlement of the playerbase? And Kabam being a for-profit entity, is forced to cave in to keep their revenue stream ongoing?

Anyway, I would like to hear some constructive criticism from you on how fights can be challenging, and yet provides a roster breadth check, ie if your roster isn’t sufficiently deep enough, you won’t be able to get past the fight without spending a lot of units.
I can say the same to you. Did you stop to think that its your issue that you have played and grinded the game so much that content doesn't challenge you because you have so many champions ?

Trying to say the player base is self entitled also holds no merit. Just because you get a handful of people who complain. Majority of players don't even come to forums.

Its pretty simple really don't create these fights which have extremely small counters . E.g. Acid wash Mysterio has 2 counters. KG and Man Thing and i believe Howard the Duck has the ability to apply poison and armor break with his sp2 but its purely random. How is this a good roster check design.
- Swap out Mysterio for some other champion that can be poisoned without Armor break and you now have 12 possible counters.
- You can also change the node to be similar to the do you bleed but poison instead along with the enhanced poison damage node.

Not only does this force players to use a champion that can poison but also isn't overly punishing on RNG and adequately checks a players roster.

Gimme path in 6.4 why have have the 200% power gain on this path. You want players to use regeneration champs which i believe there is around 15 of them that can constantly heal through out a fight ( Not like Voodoo). The power gain literally forces players to now use a a even smaller pool of champs. Magic ( Awakened maybe work unawakened not sure) being by far the best choice. Other champs that others have made work are Sorcerer Supreme BWCV and blade and just parry and regen. Again how is this actually a roster check when the counters are 4 champs out of 176.

Same path whats the point in putting spectre on the VTD ? what champion heals and ignores spectre that can manage power gain ( as regen buff will also trigger prey on the weak plus 200% power gain).

there is countless type of these fights with node combinations through out act 6 and i'm not going to list them all.

Now tell me how these fights/paths don't serve to punish players on poor RNG to get past. Tell me how this is good content design
This is where you’re so wrong. With suicides and willpower, as long as you’re healing any champ can do proper amounts of active damage on gimme. Have you ever heard of the Corvus cheese? He’s not an uncommon champ in the rosters of those who are attempting act 6 either.

Lol this is so laughable.

I only pulled Corvus like a month ago. Guess i'm now ready for act 6 right

Oh wait

I have 100% 6.1
70% 6.2
100% 6.3
19% 6.4

all without Corvus.

You guys are basically using the same champs to complete content. Then complaining about difficulty. Corvus, Aegon, Ghost, Quake are in a league of their own in terms of dealing with most stuff in game compared to other champs

Also your suggestion is to abuse a bug to complete this path ?

It clearly says in the node description that it Reduces all damage from other sources by 75% yet because of Suicides and Willpower it allows you to do normal damage because you are healing and striking. Well done you found a way to go around a node design without dealing with the node.

I bet you probably did the Mysterio fight with the cosmic buff being bugged too right. Just Corvus steam rolling through it.

How did you deal with VTD ? Probably just used the Nick fury cheese. Wow guys this content is so easy just let VTD kill you and you can totally bypass the fight and not deal with it.

personally don't use suicides and never bothered to unlock them. But i guess i'm not ready for act 6 content right >.>

To be fair, mastery investments are not an unreasonable expectation of players by that point in the game.
i didn't say it was, but its also not a mandatory thing to have them unlocked. Just like Coagulate and many other mastery's.

Also i don't need them to get past this content. I Have Magic.

But the advice to use a bug to get around content just leads to issues such as MS and BWCV where people who have no interest in unlocking said masteries doing so and finding out this method no longer works. Is that really what should be promted as the way to deal with this path

How are you planning on using magik without them?

Saying you have no interest in unlocking them is just being stubborn really. Also if you don't think bwcv and Ms should have been fixed then I really am wasting my time here

SatsuiNoHadou · May 2020

Bidzy7 said:

xNig said:

Bidzy7 said:
@xNig
you're the one who should read previous posts. You argue act 6 is fine people are just not ready for it as they need roster depth and then when i give you examples of bad fights and you are like yeah i said they over did it.

I swear man you are just trolling. We already had the discussion that you can do those fights just ends up taking along time and isn't fun. I ended up doing it with NF as i didn't have KG.

nah i would say majority of players didn't think Gimme path was fine. feel free to run a poll and prove me wrong on that. The power gain on that path is over the top. Basically forces everyone to use Magic because forget about dexing 30-40 specials in a fight from champions like Bishop, SS etc.

xNig said:

It’s not poor rng. It’s just an underdeveloped roster trying to push content in the guise of “bad rng”.
Again explain to me how a person is supposed to get a particular counter such as KG for mysterio ? Where is this magical place where i can work on getting the champ so i can rank him up to use for this fight.

I'm done talking with you. You just don't get it.

Man.. just feels like I’m talking to a mid tier player who is complaining that hard content is too hard to smash through with his roster and should be toned down to make it easier for him to clear it.

All it takes is some perseverance and/or skill. I don’t have Man Thing for that Acid Wash Mysterio fight as well. Guess what? I got through it with Blade with GR synergy. Others have got through it with SL/G99 and I’m sure, other counters.

If you want to clear the content that badly, then show some spine and stop asking for it to be made easier.
hm at no point have i said it was too hard for me. I have always had the same stance that the content design isn't fun.

You need to spend less time in the game because you are losing the ability to read. Also that your default response to everything is always "They just complaining because its too hard for them."

If i want to i can 100% act 6 right now. I Don't because its not fun just like the guy who posted about the blade fight. i have no interest in doing 400+ hit fights.

I'll have abyss done in a few weeks.

Not bad for a mid tier player right

It not being fun for you doesn’t necessarily mean it ain’t fun or fulfilling for others right?

Bidzy7 · May 2020

Worknprogress said:

Bidzy7 said:

Worknprogress said:

Bidzy7 said:

Akumaccb said:

Bidzy7 said:

xNig said:
Gates were bad idea to test roster breadth. So Kabam went with niche champ as roster breadth check as seen in 6.3/4. With the backlash, both methods were bad ideas.

Did you stop to think that it might not have been Kabam’s issue, but the over-entitlement of the playerbase? And Kabam being a for-profit entity, is forced to cave in to keep their revenue stream ongoing?

Anyway, I would like to hear some constructive criticism from you on how fights can be challenging, and yet provides a roster breadth check, ie if your roster isn’t sufficiently deep enough, you won’t be able to get past the fight without spending a lot of units.
I can say the same to you. Did you stop to think that its your issue that you have played and grinded the game so much that content doesn't challenge you because you have so many champions ?

Trying to say the player base is self entitled also holds no merit. Just because you get a handful of people who complain. Majority of players don't even come to forums.

Its pretty simple really don't create these fights which have extremely small counters . E.g. Acid wash Mysterio has 2 counters. KG and Man Thing and i believe Howard the Duck has the ability to apply poison and armor break with his sp2 but its purely random. How is this a good roster check design.
- Swap out Mysterio for some other champion that can be poisoned without Armor break and you now have 12 possible counters.
- You can also change the node to be similar to the do you bleed but poison instead along with the enhanced poison damage node.

Not only does this force players to use a champion that can poison but also isn't overly punishing on RNG and adequately checks a players roster.

Gimme path in 6.4 why have have the 200% power gain on this path. You want players to use regeneration champs which i believe there is around 15 of them that can constantly heal through out a fight ( Not like Voodoo). The power gain literally forces players to now use a a even smaller pool of champs. Magic ( Awakened maybe work unawakened not sure) being by far the best choice. Other champs that others have made work are Sorcerer Supreme BWCV and blade and just parry and regen. Again how is this actually a roster check when the counters are 4 champs out of 176.

Same path whats the point in putting spectre on the VTD ? what champion heals and ignores spectre that can manage power gain ( as regen buff will also trigger prey on the weak plus 200% power gain).

there is countless type of these fights with node combinations through out act 6 and i'm not going to list them all.

Now tell me how these fights/paths don't serve to punish players on poor RNG to get past. Tell me how this is good content design
This is where you’re so wrong. With suicides and willpower, as long as you’re healing any champ can do proper amounts of active damage on gimme. Have you ever heard of the Corvus cheese? He’s not an uncommon champ in the rosters of those who are attempting act 6 either.

Lol this is so laughable.

I only pulled Corvus like a month ago. Guess i'm now ready for act 6 right

Oh wait

I have 100% 6.1
70% 6.2
100% 6.3
19% 6.4

all without Corvus.

You guys are basically using the same champs to complete content. Then complaining about difficulty. Corvus, Aegon, Ghost, Quake are in a league of their own in terms of dealing with most stuff in game compared to other champs

Also your suggestion is to abuse a bug to complete this path ?

It clearly says in the node description that it Reduces all damage from other sources by 75% yet because of Suicides and Willpower it allows you to do normal damage because you are healing and striking. Well done you found a way to go around a node design without dealing with the node.

I bet you probably did the Mysterio fight with the cosmic buff being bugged too right. Just Corvus steam rolling through it.

How did you deal with VTD ? Probably just used the Nick fury cheese. Wow guys this content is so easy just let VTD kill you and you can totally bypass the fight and not deal with it.

personally don't use suicides and never bothered to unlock them. But i guess i'm not ready for act 6 content right >.>

To be fair, mastery investments are not an unreasonable expectation of players by that point in the game.
i didn't say it was, but its also not a mandatory thing to have them unlocked. Just like Coagulate and many other mastery's.

Also i don't need them to get past this content. I Have Magic.

But the advice to use a bug to get around content just leads to issues such as MS and BWCV where people who have no interest in unlocking said masteries doing so and finding out this method no longer works. Is that really what should be promted as the way to deal with this path
How are you planning on using magik without them?

Saying you have no interest in unlocking them is just being stubborn really. Also if you don't think bwcv and Ms should have been fixed then I really am wasting my time here

Ok so guess you also an alliance member of the two above or something.

You actually bothered to read the nodes on the path ? No let me educate you then

Every time you get a bar of power you are inflicted with Power Sting. if you throw a special you take damage if you have limbo active at the time then you will heal back that damage when limbo expires. Magic Awakened triggers limbo when she gets a bar of power. so basically strategy is work upto a 2 bars of power and throw a sp2 and repeat.
No suicides needed. Amazing right

Why do i need to unlock something i have no need for ? I have played this game for over 3 years and in all that time i have never thought you know what i need to farm up 2500 units to unlock Suicides so i can leave them unused in my mastery tab.

How exactly am i being stubborn because i don't want to play a certain way ? I enjoy champions like Hyperion who throw a lot of specials so why bother with suicides. Also suicides players are often having to turn them on then off multiple of times. Why do i want to do that or have an extra cost when i can get by without them. Oh look its a void fight better turn of suicides. Oh i need to turn off suicides to place defense then turn them back on for attack. Everyone hates doing this.
So tell me again why i should be doing this?

You didn't bother reading or commenting on the fact what the other guy said appears to be a bug yet want to focus on me and my comment regarding MS and BWCV. My comment in regards to this was there was loads of videos and people were recommending these champs showcasing the bugged ability which led to people making decisions of rank ups or AGs etc when it was later announced to be fixed there was a lot of backlash because people were led to believe this was working correctly and made decisions which couldn't be taken back. So if this "bug" is promoted as the way to deal with this content and people spend 2500 units to unlock those masteries they may find it gets fixed and now they wasted those units on something they may have otherwise not wanted to do. Will they get reimbursed for it... No they won't.

Worknprogress · May 2020

Bidzy7 said:

Worknprogress said:

Bidzy7 said:

Worknprogress said:

Bidzy7 said:

Akumaccb said:

Bidzy7 said:

xNig said:
Gates were bad idea to test roster breadth. So Kabam went with niche champ as roster breadth check as seen in 6.3/4. With the backlash, both methods were bad ideas.

Did you stop to think that it might not have been Kabam’s issue, but the over-entitlement of the playerbase? And Kabam being a for-profit entity, is forced to cave in to keep their revenue stream ongoing?

Anyway, I would like to hear some constructive criticism from you on how fights can be challenging, and yet provides a roster breadth check, ie if your roster isn’t sufficiently deep enough, you won’t be able to get past the fight without spending a lot of units.
I can say the same to you. Did you stop to think that its your issue that you have played and grinded the game so much that content doesn't challenge you because you have so many champions ?

Trying to say the player base is self entitled also holds no merit. Just because you get a handful of people who complain. Majority of players don't even come to forums.

Its pretty simple really don't create these fights which have extremely small counters . E.g. Acid wash Mysterio has 2 counters. KG and Man Thing and i believe Howard the Duck has the ability to apply poison and armor break with his sp2 but its purely random. How is this a good roster check design.
- Swap out Mysterio for some other champion that can be poisoned without Armor break and you now have 12 possible counters.
- You can also change the node to be similar to the do you bleed but poison instead along with the enhanced poison damage node.

Not only does this force players to use a champion that can poison but also isn't overly punishing on RNG and adequately checks a players roster.

Gimme path in 6.4 why have have the 200% power gain on this path. You want players to use regeneration champs which i believe there is around 15 of them that can constantly heal through out a fight ( Not like Voodoo). The power gain literally forces players to now use a a even smaller pool of champs. Magic ( Awakened maybe work unawakened not sure) being by far the best choice. Other champs that others have made work are Sorcerer Supreme BWCV and blade and just parry and regen. Again how is this actually a roster check when the counters are 4 champs out of 176.

Same path whats the point in putting spectre on the VTD ? what champion heals and ignores spectre that can manage power gain ( as regen buff will also trigger prey on the weak plus 200% power gain).

there is countless type of these fights with node combinations through out act 6 and i'm not going to list them all.

Now tell me how these fights/paths don't serve to punish players on poor RNG to get past. Tell me how this is good content design
This is where you’re so wrong. With suicides and willpower, as long as you’re healing any champ can do proper amounts of active damage on gimme. Have you ever heard of the Corvus cheese? He’s not an uncommon champ in the rosters of those who are attempting act 6 either.

Lol this is so laughable.

I only pulled Corvus like a month ago. Guess i'm now ready for act 6 right

Oh wait

I have 100% 6.1
70% 6.2
100% 6.3
19% 6.4

all without Corvus.

You guys are basically using the same champs to complete content. Then complaining about difficulty. Corvus, Aegon, Ghost, Quake are in a league of their own in terms of dealing with most stuff in game compared to other champs

Also your suggestion is to abuse a bug to complete this path ?

It clearly says in the node description that it Reduces all damage from other sources by 75% yet because of Suicides and Willpower it allows you to do normal damage because you are healing and striking. Well done you found a way to go around a node design without dealing with the node.

I bet you probably did the Mysterio fight with the cosmic buff being bugged too right. Just Corvus steam rolling through it.

How did you deal with VTD ? Probably just used the Nick fury cheese. Wow guys this content is so easy just let VTD kill you and you can totally bypass the fight and not deal with it.

personally don't use suicides and never bothered to unlock them. But i guess i'm not ready for act 6 content right >.>

To be fair, mastery investments are not an unreasonable expectation of players by that point in the game.
i didn't say it was, but its also not a mandatory thing to have them unlocked. Just like Coagulate and many other mastery's.

Also i don't need them to get past this content. I Have Magic.

But the advice to use a bug to get around content just leads to issues such as MS and BWCV where people who have no interest in unlocking said masteries doing so and finding out this method no longer works. Is that really what should be promted as the way to deal with this path
How are you planning on using magik without them?

Saying you have no interest in unlocking them is just being stubborn really. Also if you don't think bwcv and Ms should have been fixed then I really am wasting my time here
Ok so guess you also an alliance member of the two above or something.

You actually bothered to read the nodes on the path ? No let me educate you then

Every time you get a bar of power you are inflicted with Power Sting. if you throw a special you take damage if you have limbo active at the time then you will heal back that damage when limbo expires. Magic Awakened triggers limbo when she gets a bar of power. so basically strategy is work upto a 2 bars of power and throw a sp2 and repeat.
No suicides needed. Amazing right

Why do i need to unlock something i have no need for ? I have played this game for over 3 years and in all that time i have never thought you know what i need to farm up 2500 units to unlock Suicides so i can leave them unused in my mastery tab.

How exactly am i being stubborn because i don't want to play a certain way ? I enjoy champions like Hyperion who throw a lot of specials so why bother with suicides. Also suicides players are often having to turn them on then off multiple of times. Why do i want to do that or have an extra cost when i can get by without them. Oh look its a void fight better turn of suicides. Oh i need to turn off suicides to place defense then turn them back on for attack. Everyone hates doing this.
So tell me again why i should be doing this?

You didn't bother reading or commenting on the fact what the other guy said appears to be a bug yet want to focus on me and my comment regarding MS and BWCV. My comment in regards to this was there was loads of videos and people were recommending these champs showcasing the bugged ability which led to people making decisions of rank ups or AGs etc when it was later announced to be fixed there was a lot of backlash because people were led to believe this was working correctly and made decisions which couldn't be taken back. So if this "bug" is promoted as the way to deal with this content and people spend 2500 units to unlock those masteries they may find it gets fixed and now they wasted those units on something they may have otherwise not wanted to do. Will they get reimbursed for it... No they won't.

I'm certainly not.

The power sting is fairly minimal.

And you do you man. I don't run suicides normally either but I have them and most masteries unlocked bc it's smart to do so by this point in the game. Having options to make things easier is just so stupid....

I addressed his suggestion that everyone play the game like it's a legends run being silly earlier. It still is.

xNig · May 2020

Bidzy7 said:

xNig said:

Bidzy7 said:
@xNig
you're the one who should read previous posts. You argue act 6 is fine people are just not ready for it as they need roster depth and then when i give you examples of bad fights and you are like yeah i said they over did it.

I swear man you are just trolling. We already had the discussion that you can do those fights just ends up taking along time and isn't fun. I ended up doing it with NF as i didn't have KG.

nah i would say majority of players didn't think Gimme path was fine. feel free to run a poll and prove me wrong on that. The power gain on that path is over the top. Basically forces everyone to use Magic because forget about dexing 30-40 specials in a fight from champions like Bishop, SS etc.

xNig said:

It’s not poor rng. It’s just an underdeveloped roster trying to push content in the guise of “bad rng”.
Again explain to me how a person is supposed to get a particular counter such as KG for mysterio ? Where is this magical place where i can work on getting the champ so i can rank him up to use for this fight.

I'm done talking with you. You just don't get it.

Man.. just feels like I’m talking to a mid tier player who is complaining that hard content is too hard to smash through with his roster and should be toned down to make it easier for him to clear it.

All it takes is some perseverance and/or skill. I don’t have Man Thing for that Acid Wash Mysterio fight as well. Guess what? I got through it with Blade with GR synergy. Others have got through it with SL/G99 and I’m sure, other counters.

If you want to clear the content that badly, then show some spine and stop asking for it to be made easier.
hm at no point have i said it was too hard for me. I have always had the same stance that the content design isn't fun.

You need to spend less time in the game because you are losing the ability to read. Also that your default response to everything is always "They just complaining because its too hard for them."

If i want to i can 100% act 6 right now. I Don't because its not fun just like the guy who posted about the blade fight. i have no interest in doing 400+ hit fights.

I'll have abyss done in a few weeks.

Not bad for a mid tier player right

Sounds about mid tier to me.

Pulyaman · May 2020

Akumaccb said:

Bidzy7 said:

xNig said:
Gates were bad idea to test roster breadth. So Kabam went with niche champ as roster breadth check as seen in 6.3/4. With the backlash, both methods were bad ideas.

Did you stop to think that it might not have been Kabam’s issue, but the over-entitlement of the playerbase? And Kabam being a for-profit entity, is forced to cave in to keep their revenue stream ongoing?

Anyway, I would like to hear some constructive criticism from you on how fights can be challenging, and yet provides a roster breadth check, ie if your roster isn’t sufficiently deep enough, you won’t be able to get past the fight without spending a lot of units.
I can say the same to you. Did you stop to think that its your issue that you have played and grinded the game so much that content doesn't challenge you because you have so many champions ?

Trying to say the player base is self entitled also holds no merit. Just because you get a handful of people who complain. Majority of players don't even come to forums.

Its pretty simple really don't create these fights which have extremely small counters . E.g. Acid wash Mysterio has 2 counters. KG and Man Thing and i believe Howard the Duck has the ability to apply poison and armor break with his sp2 but its purely random. How is this a good roster check design.
- Swap out Mysterio for some other champion that can be poisoned without Armor break and you now have 12 possible counters.
- You can also change the node to be similar to the do you bleed but poison instead along with the enhanced poison damage node.

Not only does this force players to use a champion that can poison but also isn't overly punishing on RNG and adequately checks a players roster.

Gimme path in 6.4 why have have the 200% power gain on this path. You want players to use regeneration champs which i believe there is around 15 of them that can constantly heal through out a fight ( Not like Voodoo). The power gain literally forces players to now use a a even smaller pool of champs. Magic ( Awakened maybe work unawakened not sure) being by far the best choice. Other champs that others have made work are Sorcerer Supreme BWCV and blade and just parry and regen. Again how is this actually a roster check when the counters are 4 champs out of 176.

Same path whats the point in putting spectre on the VTD ? what champion heals and ignores spectre that can manage power gain ( as regen buff will also trigger prey on the weak plus 200% power gain).

there is countless type of these fights with node combinations through out act 6 and i'm not going to list them all.

Now tell me how these fights/paths don't serve to punish players on poor RNG to get past. Tell me how this is good content design
This is where you’re so wrong. With suicides and willpower, as long as you’re healing any champ can do proper amounts of active damage on gimme. Have you ever heard of the Corvus cheese? He’s not an uncommon champ in the rosters of those who are attempting act 6 either.

Really? Not an uncommon champ? I have over 100 5 star champs and all the counters mentioned here namely Nick fury, Corvus Magik are missing from my roster. I have opened more that 500 5 star crystals and I still seem to be missing these. I don't run suicides either. I am completely ftp. So, yes. Kabam should not put fights with specific counters when mostly everything in the game is rng. I have been playing for over 4 years and I only pulled thor ragnarok as a 4 star once. Testing roster size in a rng game does not make much sense.

Bodhizen · May 2020

Okay, so let's talk about roster breadth in terms of general game feedback.

I think it's pretty clear that the concept of gates and narrowing down viable Champions to a handful of selections are poor ways to "encourage" roster diversity, because they exclusively punish players. I like the idea of give-and-take, so I am encouraging Kabam to think about exclusively creating (at least for the foreseeable future until there's more of a balance of Node possibilities) Nodes that either exclusively reward players for using more than the narrowed selection of Champions, or for give-and-take Nodes that provide a challenge, but if you bring the right kind of Champion into the fight, you get a boost to your combat effectiveness or your defenses.

For example, create Nodes (point-of-contact and global) that give the Defender -50% physical contact damage from all incoming attacks (including Special Attacks), and have that apply to blocked attacks as well, but then allow attackers to bypass that by making their hits that do physical contact damage count as non-contact hits if they're using attackers that have a specific Synergy active (common ones, like the Rivals Synergy, for example). Do not make it dependent upon having a Synergy that applies to the whole team active; only the Champions that are the Synergy partners.

This encourages a broad swath of Champions to be brought to the fight, particularly older Champions who are more likely to have those broader Synergies. Champions like Red Guardian (for example) would not be great to bring to such fights because he only possesses narrow, unique Synergies. The Rivals Synergy would make ~64 Champions (from all 6 Classes) viable for those fights. I fully admit that this is an off-the-cuff, crude example, but it would work, and still give old and new players reasons to dust off unused Champions (or use the only ones that RNG has blessed them with) to combat these challenges. This is just one simple example of how Kabam can use existing structures to bring new challenges into the game that don't rely on using Quake, Ghost, Corvus, or the newest Champion of the month to get past.

Best wishes!

Bidzy7 · May 2020

Akumaccb said:

Bidzy7 said:

Akumaccb said:

Bidzy7 said:

xNig said:
Gates were bad idea to test roster breadth. So Kabam went with niche champ as roster breadth check as seen in 6.3/4. With the backlash, both methods were bad ideas.

Did you stop to think that it might not have been Kabam’s issue, but the over-entitlement of the playerbase? And Kabam being a for-profit entity, is forced to cave in to keep their revenue stream ongoing?

Anyway, I would like to hear some constructive criticism from you on how fights can be challenging, and yet provides a roster breadth check, ie if your roster isn’t sufficiently deep enough, you won’t be able to get past the fight without spending a lot of units.
I can say the same to you. Did you stop to think that its your issue that you have played and grinded the game so much that content doesn't challenge you because you have so many champions ?

Trying to say the player base is self entitled also holds no merit. Just because you get a handful of people who complain. Majority of players don't even come to forums.

Its pretty simple really don't create these fights which have extremely small counters . E.g. Acid wash Mysterio has 2 counters. KG and Man Thing and i believe Howard the Duck has the ability to apply poison and armor break with his sp2 but its purely random. How is this a good roster check design.
- Swap out Mysterio for some other champion that can be poisoned without Armor break and you now have 12 possible counters.
- You can also change the node to be similar to the do you bleed but poison instead along with the enhanced poison damage node.

Not only does this force players to use a champion that can poison but also isn't overly punishing on RNG and adequately checks a players roster.

Gimme path in 6.4 why have have the 200% power gain on this path. You want players to use regeneration champs which i believe there is around 15 of them that can constantly heal through out a fight ( Not like Voodoo). The power gain literally forces players to now use a a even smaller pool of champs. Magic ( Awakened maybe work unawakened not sure) being by far the best choice. Other champs that others have made work are Sorcerer Supreme BWCV and blade and just parry and regen. Again how is this actually a roster check when the counters are 4 champs out of 176.

Same path whats the point in putting spectre on the VTD ? what champion heals and ignores spectre that can manage power gain ( as regen buff will also trigger prey on the weak plus 200% power gain).

there is countless type of these fights with node combinations through out act 6 and i'm not going to list them all.

Now tell me how these fights/paths don't serve to punish players on poor RNG to get past. Tell me how this is good content design
This is where you’re so wrong. With suicides and willpower, as long as you’re healing any champ can do proper amounts of active damage on gimme. Have you ever heard of the Corvus cheese? He’s not an uncommon champ in the rosters of those who are attempting act 6 either.

Lol this is so laughable.

I only pulled Corvus like a month ago. Guess i'm now ready for act 6 right

Oh wait

I have 100% 6.1
70% 6.2
100% 6.3
19% 6.4

all without Corvus.

You guys are basically using the same champs to complete content. Then complaining about difficulty. Corvus, Aegon, Ghost, Quake are in a league of their own in terms of dealing with most stuff in game compared to other champs

Also your suggestion is to abuse a bug to complete this path ?

It clearly says in the node description that it Reduces all damage from other sources by 75% yet because of Suicides and Willpower it allows you to do normal damage because you are healing and striking. Well done you found a way to go around a node design without dealing with the node.

I bet you probably did the Mysterio fight with the cosmic buff being bugged too right. Just Corvus steam rolling through it.

How did you deal with VTD ? Probably just used the Nick fury cheese. Wow guys this content is so easy just let VTD kill you and you can totally bypass the fight and not deal with it.

personally don't use suicides and never bothered to unlock them. But i guess i'm not ready for act 6 content right >.>

Oh my what false accusations you like to lobby, guess my multiple act 6.1, 6.3 and 6.4 Legends mean I’m not a knowledgeable player who knows my stuff.

what exactly are you after here?

If you read the node, the interaction you are prompting is a bug. Your hits should not be doing normal damage they should be doing 25% damage all the time. The heal from willpower would be doing 400% damage ( no idea on what that figure is i think its like 150 so would do 600 damage a tick but could be wrong ). 600 damage a tick sounds like a long fight where you would still have to deal with the 200% power gain.

You come into the thread and say i'm wrong and act like i am being stupid by not using Corvus to Cheese this path and then get butt hurt when you called out on it.

You may well be knowledgeable but you are wrong in the strategy for this path is willpower heal and corvus. at this moment in time it works but you are almost sure by the wording of the node that its not working as intended. If the intention was that you can do normal damage while healing would it not of been described as such ?

Akumaccb said:

Bidzy7 said:

xNig said:

Bidzy7 said:
@xNig
you're the one who should read previous posts. You argue act 6 is fine people are just not ready for it as they need roster depth and then when i give you examples of bad fights and you are like yeah i said they over did it.

I swear man you are just trolling. We already had the discussion that you can do those fights just ends up taking along time and isn't fun. I ended up doing it with NF as i didn't have KG.

nah i would say majority of players didn't think Gimme path was fine. feel free to run a poll and prove me wrong on that. The power gain on that path is over the top. Basically forces everyone to use Magic because forget about dexing 30-40 specials in a fight from champions like Bishop, SS etc.

xNig said:

It’s not poor rng. It’s just an underdeveloped roster trying to push content in the guise of “bad rng”.
Again explain to me how a person is supposed to get a particular counter such as KG for mysterio ? Where is this magical place where i can work on getting the champ so i can rank him up to use for this fight.

I'm done talking with you. You just don't get it.

Man.. just feels like I’m talking to a mid tier player who is complaining that hard content is too hard to smash through with his roster and should be toned down to make it easier for him to clear it.

All it takes is some perseverance and/or skill. I don’t have Man Thing for that Acid Wash Mysterio fight as well. Guess what? I got through it with Blade with GR synergy. Others have got through it with SL/G99 and I’m sure, other counters.

If you want to clear the content that badly, then show some spine and stop asking for it to be made easier.
hm at no point have i said it was too hard for me. I have always had the same stance that the content design isn't fun.

You need to spend less time in the game because you are losing the ability to read. Also that your default response to everything is always "They just complaining because its too hard for them."

If i want to i can 100% act 6 right now. I Don't because its not fun just like the guy who posted about the blade fight. i have no interest in doing 400+ hit fights.

I'll have abyss done in a few weeks.

Not bad for a mid tier player right
It not being fun for you doesn’t necessarily mean it ain’t fun or fulfilling for others right?

Did i say it wasn't ?
have i been posting that no one likes Act 6 ?

I actually enjoyed the collector fight and will be the first thing i go back to when i want to go back to act 6.

The fact you are posting in this thread is a good enough indicator that there is a fair amount of people who didn't find act 6 fun. Others would of, BG seemed to enjoy his 6.2 runs, on the flip side he hated 6.3 legends run.

However you and your alliance team mate want to come in here and tell me how i am moaning because its too hard. That i'm just a mid tier player not ready for act 6. I am not ready for act 6 because i don't have x y z champion. Like i said if i really wanted to i could go and just get it done 100%. But tell me why i would do it if i am not enjoying it to then possibly get rewards that give me no immediate satisfaction. There is no motivation for me at this time to 100% act 6.

DNA3000 · May 2020

xNig said:
Your LOL example is the PERFECT example.

End game content should ALWAYS be the hardest content for the end game players. LOL was introduced before Spark, Aegon or NF. It was hard as hell when first introduced. As time goes by, rosters get better and new champs get introduced, making the content easier. That’s the whole idea.

Act 6 is similar. It’s hard as hell for people’s rosters now. But as time passes, it’ll get easier.

People are just complaining because they can’t do it NOW when they “think” they’re “end game” and the content was designed for them. It’s not.

To me this is the crux of the issue with Act 6. When you judge it as end game content, the question is simply one of how challenging it should be relative to the hardest content in the game. It could be harder, it could be easier, but as long as it is theoretically doable it is only a question of how hard you want it to be. Even I judged it that way when it first came out, because of course its end game content because only end game players were in a position to even attempt it when it first came out.

But Act 6 is also permanent story arc content, and the story arc content is also intended to be the core progressional content. Its supposed to be a moderate challenge for the vast majority of players, not just end game content for the highest skill and roster players. This would be okay if it was challenging for end game players with their current end game rosters, and eventually doable by average players with what will be judged as reasonably strong rosters down the road. But unlike Realm of Legends or even Labyrinth of Legends, I don't think Act 6 can be "outleveled" by less skilled players in any reasonable amount of time because Act 6 is, relatively speaking, tuned for champion strengths we simply aren't going to ever see unless Kabam makes future champion power creep completely ridiculous.

The highest skill players in the game can do Act 5 with 4/40s. But average players can go in there with 4/55s and even possibly some 5/65-level champs eventually, provided they can get past the Collector. That's two or three relative ranks higher. There's no equivalent for Act 6. Even the highest skill players are generally going into Act 6 with rank 4s and 5s, and 6* rank 3s aren't that much stronger. Extrapolating the numbers, if we were to hand average players full rosters of 6* rank 5s, those would be about 1.5 ranks stronger than 5/65 champs in terms of how rank ups typically increase strength. Those would be like handing average players a roster of champs slightly stronger than 5* rank 3 to explore Act 5. And that's before factoring in the especially strong fights in Act 6; this is just comparing "minions" in both Acts. To really get the equivalent of three ranks higher in Act 5 would probably require four ranks higher in Act 6, which simply doesn't exist when Kabam's diminished rank up pattern in 6* champs is half as strong: four ranks higher in terms of 5* rank differentials is eight ranks higher in 6* rank differentials above rank 2.

Its easy to say if I can do it they should be forced to do it also, but that's ignoring the reality of the wide range of capability in the playerbase. Failure should always be an option when we're talking about content explicitly intended to test players strength: at some point players will hit a piece of content they cannot do. I never managed the Maze before it disappeared, and that's fine. But the one place that *shouldn't* happen, in my opinion, is in the story arc content. It is ironic to me that players can eventually outlevel and beat Realm of Legends, and they can eventually outlevel and beat Labyrinth of Legends, two pieces of top tier end game content when they were released. But I don't think players will ever likely outlevel Act 6 in its current form, and that's supposed to be content for (almost) everyone.

I even wonder if it is more likely players would sooner one day outlevel and tackle the Abyss than Act 6 in its current state, and that's ridiculous.

SatsuiNoHadou · May 2020

Pulyaman said:

Akumaccb said:

Bidzy7 said:

xNig said:
Gates were bad idea to test roster breadth. So Kabam went with niche champ as roster breadth check as seen in 6.3/4. With the backlash, both methods were bad ideas.

Did you stop to think that it might not have been Kabam’s issue, but the over-entitlement of the playerbase? And Kabam being a for-profit entity, is forced to cave in to keep their revenue stream ongoing?

Anyway, I would like to hear some constructive criticism from you on how fights can be challenging, and yet provides a roster breadth check, ie if your roster isn’t sufficiently deep enough, you won’t be able to get past the fight without spending a lot of units.
I can say the same to you. Did you stop to think that its your issue that you have played and grinded the game so much that content doesn't challenge you because you have so many champions ?

Trying to say the player base is self entitled also holds no merit. Just because you get a handful of people who complain. Majority of players don't even come to forums.

Its pretty simple really don't create these fights which have extremely small counters . E.g. Acid wash Mysterio has 2 counters. KG and Man Thing and i believe Howard the Duck has the ability to apply poison and armor break with his sp2 but its purely random. How is this a good roster check design.
- Swap out Mysterio for some other champion that can be poisoned without Armor break and you now have 12 possible counters.
- You can also change the node to be similar to the do you bleed but poison instead along with the enhanced poison damage node.

Not only does this force players to use a champion that can poison but also isn't overly punishing on RNG and adequately checks a players roster.

Gimme path in 6.4 why have have the 200% power gain on this path. You want players to use regeneration champs which i believe there is around 15 of them that can constantly heal through out a fight ( Not like Voodoo). The power gain literally forces players to now use a a even smaller pool of champs. Magic ( Awakened maybe work unawakened not sure) being by far the best choice. Other champs that others have made work are Sorcerer Supreme BWCV and blade and just parry and regen. Again how is this actually a roster check when the counters are 4 champs out of 176.

Same path whats the point in putting spectre on the VTD ? what champion heals and ignores spectre that can manage power gain ( as regen buff will also trigger prey on the weak plus 200% power gain).

there is countless type of these fights with node combinations through out act 6 and i'm not going to list them all.

Now tell me how these fights/paths don't serve to punish players on poor RNG to get past. Tell me how this is good content design
This is where you’re so wrong. With suicides and willpower, as long as you’re healing any champ can do proper amounts of active damage on gimme. Have you ever heard of the Corvus cheese? He’s not an uncommon champ in the rosters of those who are attempting act 6 either.
Really? Not an uncommon champ? I have over 100 5 star champs and all the counters mentioned here namely Nick fury, Corvus Magik are missing from my roster. I have opened more that 500 5 star crystals and I still seem to be missing these. I don't run suicides either. I am completely ftp. So, yes. Kabam should not put fights with specific counters when mostly everything in the game is rng. I have been playing for over 4 years and I only pulled thor ragnarok as a 4 star once. Testing roster size in a rng game does not make much sense.

Au contraire, it does. We are not playing some FPS or console RPG here, you just said it, this is an RNG game, and that’s exactly how gatcha games separate players by placing barriers to entry based on the weapons or characters in your inventory.

Bidzy7 · May 2020

Worknprogress said:

Bidzy7 said:

Worknprogress said:

Bidzy7 said:

Worknprogress said:

Bidzy7 said:

Akumaccb said:

Bidzy7 said:

xNig said:
Gates were bad idea to test roster breadth. So Kabam went with niche champ as roster breadth check as seen in 6.3/4. With the backlash, both methods were bad ideas.

Did you stop to think that it might not have been Kabam’s issue, but the over-entitlement of the playerbase? And Kabam being a for-profit entity, is forced to cave in to keep their revenue stream ongoing?

Anyway, I would like to hear some constructive criticism from you on how fights can be challenging, and yet provides a roster breadth check, ie if your roster isn’t sufficiently deep enough, you won’t be able to get past the fight without spending a lot of units.
I can say the same to you. Did you stop to think that its your issue that you have played and grinded the game so much that content doesn't challenge you because you have so many champions ?

Trying to say the player base is self entitled also holds no merit. Just because you get a handful of people who complain. Majority of players don't even come to forums.

Its pretty simple really don't create these fights which have extremely small counters . E.g. Acid wash Mysterio has 2 counters. KG and Man Thing and i believe Howard the Duck has the ability to apply poison and armor break with his sp2 but its purely random. How is this a good roster check design.
- Swap out Mysterio for some other champion that can be poisoned without Armor break and you now have 12 possible counters.
- You can also change the node to be similar to the do you bleed but poison instead along with the enhanced poison damage node.

Not only does this force players to use a champion that can poison but also isn't overly punishing on RNG and adequately checks a players roster.

Gimme path in 6.4 why have have the 200% power gain on this path. You want players to use regeneration champs which i believe there is around 15 of them that can constantly heal through out a fight ( Not like Voodoo). The power gain literally forces players to now use a a even smaller pool of champs. Magic ( Awakened maybe work unawakened not sure) being by far the best choice. Other champs that others have made work are Sorcerer Supreme BWCV and blade and just parry and regen. Again how is this actually a roster check when the counters are 4 champs out of 176.

Same path whats the point in putting spectre on the VTD ? what champion heals and ignores spectre that can manage power gain ( as regen buff will also trigger prey on the weak plus 200% power gain).

there is countless type of these fights with node combinations through out act 6 and i'm not going to list them all.

Now tell me how these fights/paths don't serve to punish players on poor RNG to get past. Tell me how this is good content design
This is where you’re so wrong. With suicides and willpower, as long as you’re healing any champ can do proper amounts of active damage on gimme. Have you ever heard of the Corvus cheese? He’s not an uncommon champ in the rosters of those who are attempting act 6 either.

Lol this is so laughable.

I only pulled Corvus like a month ago. Guess i'm now ready for act 6 right

Oh wait

I have 100% 6.1
70% 6.2
100% 6.3
19% 6.4

all without Corvus.

You guys are basically using the same champs to complete content. Then complaining about difficulty. Corvus, Aegon, Ghost, Quake are in a league of their own in terms of dealing with most stuff in game compared to other champs

Also your suggestion is to abuse a bug to complete this path ?

It clearly says in the node description that it Reduces all damage from other sources by 75% yet because of Suicides and Willpower it allows you to do normal damage because you are healing and striking. Well done you found a way to go around a node design without dealing with the node.

I bet you probably did the Mysterio fight with the cosmic buff being bugged too right. Just Corvus steam rolling through it.

How did you deal with VTD ? Probably just used the Nick fury cheese. Wow guys this content is so easy just let VTD kill you and you can totally bypass the fight and not deal with it.

personally don't use suicides and never bothered to unlock them. But i guess i'm not ready for act 6 content right >.>

To be fair, mastery investments are not an unreasonable expectation of players by that point in the game.
i didn't say it was, but its also not a mandatory thing to have them unlocked. Just like Coagulate and many other mastery's.

Also i don't need them to get past this content. I Have Magic.

But the advice to use a bug to get around content just leads to issues such as MS and BWCV where people who have no interest in unlocking said masteries doing so and finding out this method no longer works. Is that really what should be promted as the way to deal with this path
How are you planning on using magik without them?

Saying you have no interest in unlocking them is just being stubborn really. Also if you don't think bwcv and Ms should have been fixed then I really am wasting my time here
Ok so guess you also an alliance member of the two above or something.

You actually bothered to read the nodes on the path ? No let me educate you then

Every time you get a bar of power you are inflicted with Power Sting. if you throw a special you take damage if you have limbo active at the time then you will heal back that damage when limbo expires. Magic Awakened triggers limbo when she gets a bar of power. so basically strategy is work upto a 2 bars of power and throw a sp2 and repeat.
No suicides needed. Amazing right

Why do i need to unlock something i have no need for ? I have played this game for over 3 years and in all that time i have never thought you know what i need to farm up 2500 units to unlock Suicides so i can leave them unused in my mastery tab.

How exactly am i being stubborn because i don't want to play a certain way ? I enjoy champions like Hyperion who throw a lot of specials so why bother with suicides. Also suicides players are often having to turn them on then off multiple of times. Why do i want to do that or have an extra cost when i can get by without them. Oh look its a void fight better turn of suicides. Oh i need to turn off suicides to place defense then turn them back on for attack. Everyone hates doing this.
So tell me again why i should be doing this?

You didn't bother reading or commenting on the fact what the other guy said appears to be a bug yet want to focus on me and my comment regarding MS and BWCV. My comment in regards to this was there was loads of videos and people were recommending these champs showcasing the bugged ability which led to people making decisions of rank ups or AGs etc when it was later announced to be fixed there was a lot of backlash because people were led to believe this was working correctly and made decisions which couldn't be taken back. So if this "bug" is promoted as the way to deal with this content and people spend 2500 units to unlock those masteries they may find it gets fixed and now they wasted those units on something they may have otherwise not wanted to do. Will they get reimbursed for it... No they won't.

I'm certainly not.

The power sting is fairly minimal.

And you do you man. I don't run suicides normally either but I have them and most masteries unlocked bc it's smart to do so by this point in the game. Having options to make things easier is just so stupid....

I addressed his suggestion that everyone play the game like it's a legends run being silly earlier. It still is.

yeah because 18,000 is minimal right (power sting does around 4500) lol

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