They gave a tentative for what they have. They can't give time frames for what they don't have yet. It's a detailed look into what they're working on. It isn't an itinerary.
Dude, movies can get a timeframe when a script is just being written. Your going to tell me they can't give one from the development team here. I find that very hard to believe.
I've worked in movies, and I can tell you that this is not how that works. Game Development is also a very different beast and you can't compare. We don't have timelines yet because we don't have a final list of what we want to do. Exploration of Data takes time, and then so does coming up with what changes we need to make to address those issues, and depending on the scale... we could be looking at weeks or months just to implement them.
My counter argument of "Exploration of Data takes time", is that any sort of road map shouldn't be announced publicly before you've had time to review that data. No games company I've worked for, or with, would announce without the proper data to hand so they can provide a thorough expectation for their community.
What has been provided so far, is the road map of the road map, with the hopes of filling the blank spots as you go.
If that's what you think just *some* of the resources you spent on Act 6 are worth, why did you do Act 6 in the first place? I mean this is arguably comparable to and within a small radius of Act 6's completion and exploration rewards combined. If you think the difference between what you did spend and what you would have spent is that high, you arguably spent more to complete the content than it was worth to you in the first place. You can't be rewarded for spending excessively to complete content.
Compensation can't be based on what everyone spent to do it, because that's saying the more someone spent, the less skillfully they completed it, the more they deserve to be rewarded for that. That's simply illogical.
How is it illogical to base compensation on how much units or resources someone spent? Whether someone is superior in skill or less skilled, the resources they would have used would be less because of the drastic change in attack rating and other changes to bosses like The Champion. A player who used 1000 units might use 600 units with the nerf. A player who used 10K units might use 7K units with the nerf.
If Kabam did not collect info on how much everyone spent to 100% Act 6, then it is impossible to compensate us individually. But Kabam can create testbeds to established baseline of how much on average is spent for Act 6. For example, testers can complete a normal path and then the same path with the nerf and see the difference. If the test or experiment is done scientifically and with honesty, the difference in units use would be a good starting point for the compensation.
There are hundreds of feedback which comes off as lists of grievances with actual demands. Having a focus group allows you to work with a manageable size of people which would make coming to a consensus --and probable solutions --far easier.
Oh, no doubt. And the majority of the lists of grievances were absurd. But it's been two months. Now they're planning a focus group... what happened last month?
Presumably filtering through the 1000s of comments to get the constructive criticism/complaints and loosely categorising them to decide what direction to take the game/Act 6. This focus group sounds like an off-game beta to spitball potential changes around those areas that they’ve identified, in this case ‘pain points’. Though whether we can just label Act 6 as a pain point and be done with it is a different debate.
But I think it would be a nice gesture to see something concrete and soon. Like before July 4th. The devil is always in the details.
It will surprise no one that I admit to being skeptical regarding promises. There is so much here across numerous modes...it makes me wonder how there could suddenly be sufficient bandwidth to get everything done in anything close to a reasonable time frame.
Dr. Zola
Well, we aren't seeing what is being displaced to execute the new roadmap. Some of this stuff is probably just modifications to what they were already planning to do, in terms of workload if not style. Some of this stuff is probably completely new, and it is probably displacing other stuff they were working on.
For example, one of the things they said in the Book 2 beta was that they were going to try to up the cadence of story arc quests being released. They seem to have backed off that goal a bit, now saying they are going to try to release them at six month intervals. That frees up content development time to spread out to other kinds of content. So while we were originally supposed to get more rapidly iterated (and super difficult) Book 2 acts, now we're going to be getting them slower, but hopefully better designed and with design time opening up for other kinds of content.
A lot of less visible to players juggling is probably happening behind the scenes, where we're trading things we would have gotten for what the road map now says we're going to get. Hopefully it is a good trade.
On the compensation front, I’ll be honest I would like some. I’d guess that it would have to be broken down between Completion of each chapter and then exploration of said chapter and if you’re at 50% of a chapter you’re probably just out of luck.
Now unless it comes in the form of a huge chunk of units, it’s going to be revives/potions which will go into everyone’s overflow (except those who are ready for an AoL run or something), along with a token gesture of shards here and there. Can we, therefore get them going into our inventory in the same way that T4CC does when your sigil expires - 17/16 as opposed to 16/16 and one in the overflow?
They gave a tentative for what they have. They can't give time frames for what they don't have yet. It's a detailed look into what they're working on. It isn't an itinerary.
Dude, movies can get a timeframe when a script is just being written. Your going to tell me they can't give one from the development team here. I find that very hard to believe.
I've worked in movies, and I can tell you that this is not how that works. Game Development is also a very different beast and you can't compare. We don't have timelines yet because we don't have a final list of what we want to do. Exploration of Data takes time, and then so does coming up with what changes we need to make to address those issues, and depending on the scale... we could be looking at weeks or months just to implement them.
My counter argument of "Exploration of Data takes time", is that any sort of road map shouldn't be announced publicly before you've had time to review that data. No games company I've worked for, or with, would announce without the proper data to hand so they can provide a thorough expectation for their community.
What has been provided so far, is the road map of the road map, with the hopes of filling the blank spots as you go.
We thought about that, but we also knew that our players wanted information now. If we wanted to wait to give more information, then you would be waiting for months, because that's how long it takes. I won't be asking the team to change our future Roadmap posts, and there will be more information without definite timelines. There are a lot of people that enjoy these glimpses into the future and understanding what is on the far horizon.
There are definitely lots of Game Companies that share priorities and insights into things that are way in the distance without timelines. From speaking vaguely on new features, to talking about future priorities that don't have any action items. We've done this in the past as well, and I feel it gives players a better understanding of the shape of the game to come so that when there is new content or changes made, you already understand where that fits and why.
They gave a tentative for what they have. They can't give time frames for what they don't have yet. It's a detailed look into what they're working on. It isn't an itinerary.
Dude, movies can get a timeframe when a script is just being written. Your going to tell me they can't give one from the development team here. I find that very hard to believe.
I've worked in movies, and I can tell you that this is not how that works. Game Development is also a very different beast and you can't compare. We don't have timelines yet because we don't have a final list of what we want to do. Exploration of Data takes time, and then so does coming up with what changes we need to make to address those issues, and depending on the scale... we could be looking at weeks or months just to implement them.
The lack of details and information puts many of us at a standstill with act 6. Do we keep trudging along with hopes that we will get compensated? Or do we just halt act 6 all together?
I realize it takes time, but the attack values seems like something you could adjust relatively quickly and give a specific timeline on. I mean, you adjusted attack values in act 7 Beta in like 1 day. Why is adjusting the attack values in act 6 going to take months?
If that's what you think just *some* of the resources you spent on Act 6 are worth, why did you do Act 6 in the first place? I mean this is arguably comparable to and within a small radius of Act 6's completion and exploration rewards combined. If you think the difference between what you did spend and what you would have spent is that high, you arguably spent more to complete the content than it was worth to you in the first place. You can't be rewarded for spending excessively to complete content.
Compensation can't be based on what everyone spent to do it, because that's saying the more someone spent, the less skillfully they completed it, the more they deserve to be rewarded for that. That's simply illogical.
How is it illogical to base compensation on how much units or resources someone spent? Whether someone is superior in skill or less skilled, the resources they would have used would be less because of the drastic change in attack rating and other changes to bosses like The Champion. A player who used 1000 units might use 600 units with the nerf. A player who used 10K units might use 7K units with the nerf.
If Kabam did not collect info on how much everyone spent to 100% Act 6, then it is impossible to compensate us individually. But Kabam can create testbeds to established baseline of how much on average is spent for Act 6. For example, testers can complete a normal path and then the same path with the nerf and see the difference. If the test or experiment is done scientifically and with honesty, the difference in units use would be a good starting point for the compensation.
I don't think my post was clear to you. In the context of the rest of the post, what I intended to convey was that specific individuals cannot assert that the compensation for Act 6 changes should be based on their own personal expenditures because that would then mean, as I said, that people who spent more would think the compensation should be higher, and those who spent less would think the compensation should be lower. If we set compensation to the average, say, like you seem to be suggesting, then every single player above the average expenditure who thought that way would say the compensation was too low, and for the players who spent way over the average they would think the compensation would be ridiculously too low. So you can't judge by just your own expenditures, because if everyone did that almost no one would judge the compensation as appropriate. There needs to be a compensation metric that is independent of individual anecdotes of expense, that all reasonable people can agree is logical irrespective of whether it returns comparable resources to them personally than they spent.
They gave a tentative for what they have. They can't give time frames for what they don't have yet. It's a detailed look into what they're working on. It isn't an itinerary.
Dude, movies can get a timeframe when a script is just being written. Your going to tell me they can't give one from the development team here. I find that very hard to believe.
I've worked in movies, and I can tell you that this is not how that works. Game Development is also a very different beast and you can't compare. We don't have timelines yet because we don't have a final list of what we want to do. Exploration of Data takes time, and then so does coming up with what changes we need to make to address those issues, and depending on the scale... we could be looking at weeks or months just to implement them.
The lack of details and information puts many of us at a standstill with act 6. Do we keep trudging along with hopes that we will get compensated? Or do we just halt act 6 all together?
I realize it takes time, but the attack values seems like something you could adjust relatively quickly and give a specific timeline on. I mean, you adjusted attack values in act 7 Beta in like 1 day. Why is adjusting the attack values in act 6 going to take months?
And then we'd have a different set of players getting a different experience in Act 6 with lowered Attack ratings but an unchanged Champion, and if we do those two, then we have ANOTHER set of Players that are having a different experience than those that will come after when we've hit some of the other Pain Point fights.
This is not going to be a quick and easy thing. If you want to go forward in Act 6 now or wait for adjustments is up to you. While you don't have a timeline, you are aware that we are coming up with a plan.
i think the Quest team did a really great job in regards to responding to the feedback from the community. the War team not so much.
but i'm excited about the changes to content ... REALLY excited about these ridiculous attack values being adjusted and the Champion fight for those who come after it. Variant 5 etc ... i'm excited about quest content.
hopefully all of this is sooner rather than towards the later part of the year when Book 2 comes. to release these changes in November for instance would be an epic fail.
They gave a tentative for what they have. They can't give time frames for what they don't have yet. It's a detailed look into what they're working on. It isn't an itinerary.
Dude, movies can get a timeframe when a script is just being written. Your going to tell me they can't give one from the development team here. I find that very hard to believe.
I've worked in movies, and I can tell you that this is not how that works. Game Development is also a very different beast and you can't compare. We don't have timelines yet because we don't have a final list of what we want to do. Exploration of Data takes time, and then so does coming up with what changes we need to make to address those issues, and depending on the scale... we could be looking at weeks or months just to implement them.
The lack of details and information puts many of us at a standstill with act 6. Do we keep trudging along with hopes that we will get compensated? Or do we just halt act 6 all together?
I realize it takes time, but the attack values seems like something you could adjust relatively quickly and give a specific timeline on. I mean, you adjusted attack values in act 7 Beta in like 1 day. Why is adjusting the attack values in act 6 going to take months?
And then we'd have a different set of players getting a different experience in Act 6 with lowered Attack ratings but an unchanged Champion, and if we do those two, then we have ANOTHER set of Players that are having a different experience than those that will come after when we've hit some of the other Pain Point fights.
This is not going to be a quick and easy thing. If you want to go forward in Act 6 now or wait for adjustments is up to you. While you don't have a timeline, you are aware that we are coming up with a plan.
In all fairness, you guys broke it you should prioritize fixing it timely. Right now you are banking on wordy statements on future promises holding people over. The time line is now not a time to be determined later
They gave a tentative for what they have. They can't give time frames for what they don't have yet. It's a detailed look into what they're working on. It isn't an itinerary.
Dude, movies can get a timeframe when a script is just being written. Your going to tell me they can't give one from the development team here. I find that very hard to believe.
I've worked in movies, and I can tell you that this is not how that works. Game Development is also a very different beast and you can't compare. We don't have timelines yet because we don't have a final list of what we want to do. Exploration of Data takes time, and then so does coming up with what changes we need to make to address those issues, and depending on the scale... we could be looking at weeks or months just to implement them.
The lack of details and information puts many of us at a standstill with act 6. Do we keep trudging along with hopes that we will get compensated? Or do we just halt act 6 all together?
I realize it takes time, but the attack values seems like something you could adjust relatively quickly and give a specific timeline on. I mean, you adjusted attack values in act 7 Beta in like 1 day. Why is adjusting the attack values in act 6 going to take months?
And then we'd have a different set of players getting a different experience in Act 6 with lowered Attack ratings but an unchanged Champion, and if we do those two, then we have ANOTHER set of Players that are having a different experience than those that will come after when we've hit some of the other Pain Point fights.
This is not going to be a quick and easy thing. If you want to go forward in Act 6 now or wait for adjustments is up to you. While you don't have a timeline, you are aware that we are coming up with a plan.
Reasonable people would agree that incremental changes would not be practical, but December seems like a lo g time when so many of these "pain points" have been know since the content was released. We know you're coming up with a plan (we already knew that btw) but we don't know if there will be an arbitrary deadline before which people won't receive compensation for having completed the hard version of the content. That leaves us paralyzed.
Loving seeing all the posts from the “Git Gud Gang” talking about how much they spent and deserve to be compensated for clearing Act 6
All along, some folks were talking like they were super-skilled and so much better than everyone else when really, all some of them did was let Unit Man clear lanes and now they are exposed
They gave a tentative for what they have. They can't give time frames for what they don't have yet. It's a detailed look into what they're working on. It isn't an itinerary.
Dude, movies can get a timeframe when a script is just being written. Your going to tell me they can't give one from the development team here. I find that very hard to believe.
I've worked in movies, and I can tell you that this is not how that works. Game Development is also a very different beast and you can't compare. We don't have timelines yet because we don't have a final list of what we want to do. Exploration of Data takes time, and then so does coming up with what changes we need to make to address those issues, and depending on the scale... we could be looking at weeks or months just to implement them.
The lack of details and information puts many of us at a standstill with act 6. Do we keep trudging along with hopes that we will get compensated? Or do we just halt act 6 all together?
I realize it takes time, but the attack values seems like something you could adjust relatively quickly and give a specific timeline on. I mean, you adjusted attack values in act 7 Beta in like 1 day. Why is adjusting the attack values in act 6 going to take months?
And then we'd have a different set of players getting a different experience in Act 6 with lowered Attack ratings but an unchanged Champion, and if we do those two, then we have ANOTHER set of Players that are having a different experience than those that will come after when we've hit some of the other Pain Point fights.
This is not going to be a quick and easy thing. If you want to go forward in Act 6 now or wait for adjustments is up to you. While you don't have a timeline, you are aware that we are coming up with a plan.
On a positive note, I am sooooooooooooooo excited to see that Book 2 Act 1 won't have quests that cost more than 70 energy. That was legitimately my favorite thing in the post and made my day!
If i have to wait until the end of the year for this changes to come i'll probably quit... I dont care for compensations, i just want to progress, which at this point is hard for me in act 6...
They gave a tentative for what they have. They can't give time frames for what they don't have yet. It's a detailed look into what they're working on. It isn't an itinerary.
Dude, movies can get a timeframe when a script is just being written. Your going to tell me they can't give one from the development team here. I find that very hard to believe.
I've worked in movies, and I can tell you that this is not how that works. Game Development is also a very different beast and you can't compare. We don't have timelines yet because we don't have a final list of what we want to do. Exploration of Data takes time, and then so does coming up with what changes we need to make to address those issues, and depending on the scale... we could be looking at weeks or months just to implement them.
The lack of details and information puts many of us at a standstill with act 6. Do we keep trudging along with hopes that we will get compensated? Or do we just halt act 6 all together?
I realize it takes time, but the attack values seems like something you could adjust relatively quickly and give a specific timeline on. I mean, you adjusted attack values in act 7 Beta in like 1 day. Why is adjusting the attack values in act 6 going to take months?
And then we'd have a different set of players getting a different experience in Act 6 with lowered Attack ratings but an unchanged Champion, and if we do those two, then we have ANOTHER set of Players that are having a different experience than those that will come after when we've hit some of the other Pain Point fights.
This is not going to be a quick and easy thing. If you want to go forward in Act 6 now or wait for adjustments is up to you. While you don't have a timeline, you are aware that we are coming up with a plan.
Okay, so this is actually helpful and is giving some clarity. You make it sound as if the plan is to make ALL act 6 changes at the same time. Is this correct? If you can at least confirm that then I can plan accordingly.
The impression i had after reading the post is that they would be phased.
All of this is outstanding information except for one somewhat large issue: there is no helpful information about when the changes to Act 6 difficulty will occur.
You mention that they will happen, hopefully, before Act 1 Book 2 releases in December 2020. That's 6 months from now. In the meantime, should players continue doing Act 6 content and hope the compensation is sufficient for their over-expenditure of resources? Should they stop completing and exploring Act 6 for weeks... but maybe months... or longer, in the hope that the Act 6 attack decrease will be worth the wait? What should the players do in the meantime with overflowing stashes and less content to complete?
Between now and December 1, anyone working on Act 6 is caught in limbo. I really hope Kabam considers giving more information about when the attack value decrease will occur so players can plan accordingly.
Perfectly said and I’m in the exact same position. While I’m excited for everything they said in this, I’m still a little baffled why this wasn’t immediately set into motion and the new “focus group” wasn’t put together a month ago. My biggest comparing the last year was that the timetables for everything in the game kept getting longer and longer (variant, champion reworks, etc) and now from the wording it seems like a reasonable target date for this act 6 change is closer to November or December.
That’s half a year more we have to wait, while I am in limbo with act 6 knowing it’s going to be changed. I have zero incentive to push now and the only other things to do are the monthly event quests (which are honestly very hit or miss) and a new variant. At the very least some kind of timetable for the changes would give me motivation to spin my wheels and have patience. Others might not have as much, and from the general feedback thread and social media - there were a lot of people on the verge of leaving anyway, who were bored and felt things are stagnant.
My wish? Do it piecemeal and implement the stuff you know you can do without feedback AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. You know the champion fight changes as you just announced, so roll them out next update. You know you want to delete some paths at least - get to it! We as a player base have been more than patient. While this is a good start and I’m happy to see you’re listening and trying to make the game better, I don’t want to wait half a year to do the main content in the game because you didn’t start the process soon enough when you knew it needed to change.
I remain cautiously optimistic but I would love to get a somewhat solid date for when you’re going to do this part. It would go a long way for me and a lot of others.
They gave a tentative for what they have. They can't give time frames for what they don't have yet. It's a detailed look into what they're working on. It isn't an itinerary.
Dude, movies can get a timeframe when a script is just being written. Your going to tell me they can't give one from the development team here. I find that very hard to believe.
I've worked in movies, and I can tell you that this is not how that works. Game Development is also a very different beast and you can't compare. We don't have timelines yet because we don't have a final list of what we want to do. Exploration of Data takes time, and then so does coming up with what changes we need to make to address those issues, and depending on the scale... we could be looking at weeks or months just to implement them.
My counter argument of "Exploration of Data takes time", is that any sort of road map shouldn't be announced publicly before you've had time to review that data. No games company I've worked for, or with, would announce without the proper data to hand so they can provide a thorough expectation for their community.
What has been provided so far, is the road map of the road map, with the hopes of filling the blank spots as you go.
We thought about that, but we also knew that our players wanted information now. If we wanted to wait to give more information, then you would be waiting for months, because that's how long it takes. I won't be asking the team to change our future Roadmap posts, and there will be more information without definite timelines. There are a lot of people that enjoy these glimpses into the future and understanding what is on the far horizon.
There are definitely lots of Game Companies that share priorities and insights into things that are way in the distance without timelines. From speaking vaguely on new features, to talking about future priorities that don't have any action items. We've done this in the past as well, and I feel it gives players a better understanding of the shape of the game to come so that when there is new content or changes made, you already understand where that fits and why.
now yes i can relate to some of that. but has it been explored on a staggered “over-haul” sorta speak, on act6. to me there are the quick fix, gap closers that can be addressed, mainly the high attack values, starting in 6.3/6.4, with those updated and tuned it releases a slightly better experiance for the players to attempt and very well turn out that the “pain points” arent so much of a pain point. Fights like acid wash mysterio/ do you bleed Rouge will still be no brainers, but the rest of the act may open up and provide a more enjoyable experiance as the list of pain points rise. even personally the decrease in raw attack on 6.2 champion i think would already make the fight much more managable. atleast to 80% the quest or whatever to when/if “no retreat” and other so-called nerfs are implemented
isnt everyones experiance already an altered experiance? if playerX does a fight with stark spidey, and player Y does fight with void. the experiance is going to differ.
now yes there will be those who have already completed 100% pre-balance change, those that complete during balance change (as changes are impletmented and staggered), and those who complete post-balance.
to me it’d seem like a real attempt to sit down, and say, “ok, whats an issue we can resolve?” attack? ok by september have the implentation of that. checked off bucket list. and not sure as to how the staff/devs/coders whatever are allocated, but by the time the attack-decrease team has done their thing, The Champion rework team may be done with their overhaul and ready to roll out. its going to be a continous improvement issue at this point seems how it has gone this long already.
But I think it would be a nice gesture to see something concrete and soon. Like before July 4th. The devil is always in the details.
It will surprise no one that I admit to being skeptical regarding promises. There is so much here across numerous modes...it makes me wonder how there could suddenly be sufficient bandwidth to get everything done in anything close to a reasonable time frame.
Dr. Zola
Well, we aren't seeing what is being displaced to execute the new roadmap. Some of this stuff is probably just modifications to what they were already planning to do, in terms of workload if not style. Some of this stuff is probably completely new, and it is probably displacing other stuff they were working on.
For example, one of the things they said in the Book 2 beta was that they were going to try to up the cadence of story arc quests being released. They seem to have backed off that goal a bit, now saying they are going to try to release them at six month intervals. That frees up content development time to spread out to other kinds of content. So while we were originally supposed to get more rapidly iterated (and super difficult) Book 2 acts, now we're going to be getting them slower, but hopefully better designed and with design time opening up for other kinds of content.
A lot of less visible to players juggling is probably happening behind the scenes, where we're trading things we would have gotten for what the road map now says we're going to get. Hopefully it is a good trade.
You get my point: what gets shuffled and how will determine how well this is received.
Some things already move at what feels like a glacial pace in game—acknowledging bugs and fixing them jumps to mind. Those types of things can’t drop.
I’d like to think the community is patient and willing to hold tight through what looks like a sweeping month’s-long process. Experience suggests they might not be.
Interesting and promising read... that's going in the right direction. Still haven't completely understood that "quests will be wiped" thing about act 2 and how many small energy refills will be granted, 10 only once or 10 for each quest ? Anyway, it all sounds good to me and as a mid-range uncollected player, those changes in act6 are making me reconsider my decision of not touching that piece of content !
This is disappointing for Uncollected players. There was almost nothing in this post that is relevant for mid-game players. I imagine the future posts about champion buffs and arena changes and stuff like that might be more relevant, but if you're still grinding through Act 5, all the stuff about Act 6 is basically meaningless, all the stuff about new Variants isn't particularly useful, the Summer of Pain isn't even something to think about. As an Uncollected player, the only thing here that I can do anything with is go replay Act 2 for the rewards after it gets reset.
I would argue that this means the MOST to our Uncollected Summoners. The step after that is becoming Cavalier, and that opens up another big world for you. That may not be right now, but when you get to it, these improvements are going to make it a better transition for you.
So will the Events Quest's Uncollected Difficulty Level be reduce to it's original state once the Cavalier Difficulty is released?
Because right now Uncollected's Difficulty Level is trying to give challenge to someone who Just beat the Collector and someone who Just beat 6.1 or the Grandmaster which is an ENORMOUS Difficulty Level Gap and it shows...
Who the hell is Disagreeing, it's a Question how can you even Disagree with it? I'm asking if the Uncollected Difficulty Event Quest will be easier once the Cavalier Difficulty is released, because then UC EQ would only be tailored to UC Players and not UC+Cavalier Players like it is right now.
The compensation needs to be hefty for the those who already 100% act 6. I probably spent 300 USD to 100 percent that champion chapter. And another 2k USD between 6.2, 6.3, and 6.4. I understand compensation won’t be close to that but you guys need to stop Nerfing old content.
Dude how selfish are you? You want other people to go through the same pain as you? Be quiet and stop complaining imagine you hadn’t cleared it yet because you found it hard and then people complain saying iT sHoUlDnT bE nErFeD bEcAuSe i dId iT wHeN iT wAs hArD.grow up don’t complain about other people getting a easier time
Honestly i don’t think it should be nerfed at all. I think content that is released should stay the same. If you can’t complete it then play better. Ive watched much better players then me solo the collector, i could not, so i got through with units. If content is to hard then it should not be released. I would rather them not nerf it at all and have everyone struggle the same. This is a competitive game, not patty cake.
I agree. Super competitive game. I have not heard confirmation, but there has been rumors of players worldwide already training for MCOC and its induction into the 2022 Winter Olympics as an official event. Is there any merit behind these rumors, or will MCOC remain a game played on my phone based on fictional superheroes? Chill out, brochacho. Maybe play a few rounds of patty cake and reminisce on how playing games used to be fun for everyone.
I welcome these changes for the benefit of the community and understand you're currently exploring options to compensate players who already explored Act 6. However, regarding compensation my skepticism compels me to share my experience.
I'm missing 3 paths to 100% Act6, having interrupted exploration a few weeks ago trying to save units for the 4th of July deals. I always explored most end content with minimal costs, relying mostly on skill and strategy. However, the design of 6.2, 6.3 and specially 6.4 forced me to spend an astronomical amount of resources.
I had to explore 6.4 without a quake or ghost. I don't have them despite having 108 5star champs (some naturally duped to 200), and it made no sense waiting for a quake to complete important content. I haven't gotten one in more than 5 years playing the game and frankly, it might not ever happen. Exploring 6.4 without a quake was simply an exercise in spending resources. I'm not even going to speak about all the mixes of nodes you have to deal with, bound to 15k attack values, for which there were no good counters besides quake. I mean, p.e. if bane switched during the opponent's special animation I was pretty much death on those seconds. I'll just refer the blocking damage and the amount of unavoidable passive debuff damage which were bound to those 15k attack values. Most of those could be ignored by quake or even ghost players.
Reducing the attack values to less than half of their original values, will make this content content manageable and approachable by a vast array of champions, not only quake or ghost. And will make it possible to be explored with minimal costs.
Underestimating, I spent about 40K units and several hundreds of saved potions exploring 6.2, 6.3 and 6.4. The amount of arena grind I had to do for units spent on 6.4 led to the greatest burnout this game ever gave me. At the moment I don't have enough resources to try to complete my first path of the Abyss neither units for the 4th of July unit deals, they were all burnt on Act6.
I hope you take all this into consideration while calculation Act6 compensations.
You do realize they stated that if you completed the content more than 3 months before they implement the change.. then you won't receive compensation right? The amount of data to analyze beyond 3 months is too much. So if you completed act 6 a few months ago.. you won't be seeing any compensation when they implement the changes discussed..
This is wrong, few pages back Miike confirmed they'll look into expanding for Act 6, lower acts its just a reward buff to bring up to date - Act 6 is still recent, and is a complete rework
That would be great.. Can you tell me which page that is on? I'm not able to find it. Interesting that they can do data analysis further back than 3 months for act 6 but not other content.. I suppose maybe just less people have done it 100%.
I've worked in movies, and I can tell you that this is not how that works. Game Development is also a very different beast and you can't compare. We don't have timelines yet because we don't have a final list of what we want to do. Exploration of Data takes time, and then so does coming up with what changes we need to make to address those issues, and depending on the scale... we could be looking at weeks or months just to implement them.
So what I got out of this was; 1; you guys don't fully know what your doing as far as changes. 2; you guys are in the early stages, so I shouldn't expect 'weeks', but instead 'months.' Thanks Mike
Movies have their setbacks, and they also don't have to deal with people being disappointed when those goals aren't met like this community. There are also some things they don't know yet. Things don't happen overnight.
Guess you weren't around when 12.0 hit. Kabam argued, listened, tested and then added changes within two weeks. Gotta give them credit for that fast turn around. But yes, big changes can happen sooner rather then later. And yes, people do get upset when movies are postponed. I get this industry has more delays then movies, but we still get timeframes for a release.
I was here during 12.0, and the major bulk of the changes they planned, months ahead of time mind you, had gone ahead. There were some minor tweaks after the reactions, but what we're talking about here is not minor tweaks. These are significant changes that require significant time to implement.
They gave a tentative for what they have. They can't give time frames for what they don't have yet. It's a detailed look into what they're working on. It isn't an itinerary.
Dude, movies can get a timeframe when a script is just being written. Your going to tell me they can't give one from the development team here. I find that very hard to believe.
Movies have their setbacks, and they also don't have to deal with people being disappointed when those goals aren't met like this community. There are also some things they don't know yet. Things don't happen overnight.
What are you on about lol They release the film and if the public don’t like it they lose ££££££££ They can’t go back and change it like kabam can. And yes they have strict time frames for release times as an over run cost ££££££ And not being ready for when the film will make the most money being targeted at there optimum audience ie a Halloween film being late and coming out over Christmas rather that Halloween.
Movies get pushed back all the time. They're announced and planned during production.
As for the Dev Diary post, I am extremely upbeat and positive.
I am easily one of the most impatient people around. It takes a lot for me to dial it down and trust a slower process instead of asking why things can’t move quicker.
But in this case, and with the details provided over the last few weeks and today, I am very willing to be patient and allow the game team to implement what they have described.
Before — my opinion — I was very concerned that this player base was being taken for granted and ignored. I truly did not feel that this game team understood that where they were headed, players just weren’t gonna follow.
My primary enjoyment from the game comes from collecting characters, testing them. I have said that repeatedly.
But I was extremely concerned that Kabam didn’t recognize how unpleasant the endgame content was becoming to play.
In reading that Dev Diary, I feel comfortable that they understand and will make the adjustments in a reasonable timeframe to Act 6, as well as tuning content in the ways they described.
Just my opinion. I am really excited for the next six months
I've worked in movies, and I can tell you that this is not how that works. Game Development is also a very different beast and you can't compare. We don't have timelines yet because we don't have a final list of what we want to do. Exploration of Data takes time, and then so does coming up with what changes we need to make to address those issues, and depending on the scale... we could be looking at weeks or months just to implement them.
So what I got out of this was; 1; you guys don't fully know what your doing as far as changes. 2; you guys are in the early stages, so I shouldn't expect 'weeks', but instead 'months.' Thanks Mike
Movies have their setbacks, and they also don't have to deal with people being disappointed when those goals aren't met like this community. There are also some things they don't know yet. Things don't happen overnight.
Guess you weren't around when 12.0 hit. Kabam argued, listened, tested and then added changes within two weeks. Gotta give them credit for that fast turn around. But yes, big changes can happen sooner rather then later. And yes, people do get upset when movies are postponed. I get this industry has more delays then movies, but we still get timeframes for a release.
I was here during 12.0, and the major bulk of the changes they planned, months ahead of time mind you, had gone ahead. There were some minor tweaks after the reactions, but what we're talking about here is not minor tweaks. These are significant changes that require significant time to implement.
Oh that is not true at all, after 12.0 the changes made WERE significant. 12.0 was a mess, they made huge changes after the outcry. They aren’t giving us much more than we already knew. I can’t even consider this a “glimpse” into the future. Because we already knew these aspects.
Tell us when act 6 is going to be toned down. So we can play our game effectively.
Honestly i am glad i didnt bother working on Act 6 after 6.1 moment ppl were complaining bout 6.2 and 6.3 i knew right there and then it wasnt worth working right away and i would eventually get around to it and variants would keep me busy in meantime along with monthly quest
Comments
What has been provided so far, is the road map of the road map, with the hopes of filling the blank spots as you go.
If Kabam did not collect info on how much everyone spent to 100% Act 6, then it is impossible to compensate us individually. But Kabam can create testbeds to established baseline of how much on average is spent for Act 6. For example, testers can complete a normal path and then the same path with the nerf and see the difference. If the test or experiment is done scientifically and with honesty, the difference in units use would be a good starting point for the compensation.
Though whether we can just label Act 6 as a pain point and be done with it is a different debate.
For example, one of the things they said in the Book 2 beta was that they were going to try to up the cadence of story arc quests being released. They seem to have backed off that goal a bit, now saying they are going to try to release them at six month intervals. That frees up content development time to spread out to other kinds of content. So while we were originally supposed to get more rapidly iterated (and super difficult) Book 2 acts, now we're going to be getting them slower, but hopefully better designed and with design time opening up for other kinds of content.
A lot of less visible to players juggling is probably happening behind the scenes, where we're trading things we would have gotten for what the road map now says we're going to get. Hopefully it is a good trade.
Now unless it comes in the form of a huge chunk of units, it’s going to be revives/potions which will go into everyone’s overflow (except those who are ready for an AoL run or something), along with a token gesture of shards here and there. Can we, therefore get them going into our inventory in the same way that T4CC does when your sigil expires - 17/16 as opposed to 16/16 and one in the overflow?
There are definitely lots of Game Companies that share priorities and insights into things that are way in the distance without timelines. From speaking vaguely on new features, to talking about future priorities that don't have any action items. We've done this in the past as well, and I feel it gives players a better understanding of the shape of the game to come so that when there is new content or changes made, you already understand where that fits and why.
I realize it takes time, but the attack values seems like something you could adjust relatively quickly and give a specific timeline on. I mean, you adjusted attack values in act 7 Beta in like 1 day. Why is adjusting the attack values in act 6 going to take months?
This is not going to be a quick and easy thing. If you want to go forward in Act 6 now or wait for adjustments is up to you. While you don't have a timeline, you are aware that we are coming up with a plan.
but i'm excited about the changes to content ... REALLY excited about these ridiculous attack values being adjusted and the Champion fight for those who come after it. Variant 5 etc ... i'm excited about quest content.
hopefully all of this is sooner rather than towards the later part of the year when Book 2 comes. to release these changes in November for instance would be an epic fail.
All along, some folks were talking like they were super-skilled and so much better than everyone else when really, all some of them did was let Unit Man clear lanes and now they are exposed
The impression i had after reading the post is that they would be phased.
That’s half a year more we have to wait, while I am in limbo with act 6 knowing it’s going to be changed. I have zero incentive to push now and the only other things to do are the monthly event quests (which are honestly very hit or miss) and a new variant. At the very least some kind of timetable for the changes would give me motivation to spin my wheels and have patience. Others might not have as much, and from the general feedback thread and social media - there were a lot of people on the verge of leaving anyway, who were bored and felt things are stagnant.
My wish? Do it piecemeal and implement the stuff you know you can do without feedback AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. You know the champion fight changes as you just announced, so roll them out next update. You know you want to delete some paths at least - get to it! We as a player base have been more than patient. While this is a good start and I’m happy to see you’re listening and trying to make the game better, I don’t want to wait half a year to do the main content in the game because you didn’t start the process soon enough when you knew it needed to change.
I remain cautiously optimistic but I would love to get a somewhat solid date for when you’re going to do this part. It would go a long way for me and a lot of others.
now yes i can relate to some of that. but has it been explored on a staggered “over-haul” sorta speak, on act6. to me there are the quick fix, gap closers that can be addressed, mainly the high attack values, starting in 6.3/6.4, with those updated and tuned it releases a slightly better experiance for the players to attempt and very well turn out that the “pain points” arent so much of a pain point.
Fights like acid wash mysterio/ do you bleed Rouge will still be no brainers, but the rest of the act may open up and provide a more enjoyable experiance as the list of pain points rise. even personally the decrease in raw attack on 6.2 champion i think would already make the fight much more managable. atleast to 80% the quest or whatever to when/if “no retreat” and other so-called nerfs are implemented
isnt everyones experiance already an altered experiance? if playerX does a fight with stark spidey, and player Y does fight with void. the experiance is going to differ.
now yes there will be those who have already completed 100% pre-balance change, those that complete during balance change (as changes are impletmented and staggered), and those who complete post-balance.
to me it’d seem like a real attempt to sit down, and say, “ok, whats an issue we can resolve?” attack? ok by september have the implentation of that.
checked off bucket list. and not sure as to how the staff/devs/coders whatever are allocated, but by the time the attack-decrease team has done their thing, The Champion rework team may be done with their overhaul and ready to roll out. its going to be a continous improvement issue at this point seems how it has gone this long already.
Some things already move at what feels like a glacial pace in game—acknowledging bugs and fixing them jumps to mind. Those types of things can’t drop.
I’d like to think the community is patient and willing to hold tight through what looks like a sweeping month’s-long process. Experience suggests they might not be.
Dr. Zola
I'm asking if the Uncollected Difficulty Event Quest will be easier once the Cavalier Difficulty is released, because then UC EQ would only be tailored to UC Players and not UC+Cavalier Players like it is right now.
Chill out, brochacho. Maybe play a few rounds of patty cake and reminisce on how playing games used to be fun for everyone.
I am easily one of the most impatient people around. It takes a lot for me to dial it down and trust a slower process instead of asking why things can’t move quicker.
But in this case, and with the details provided over the last few weeks and today, I am very willing to be patient and allow the game team to implement what they have described.
Before — my opinion — I was very concerned that this player base was being taken for granted and ignored. I truly did not feel that this game team understood that where they were headed, players just weren’t gonna follow.
My primary enjoyment from the game comes from collecting characters, testing them. I have said that repeatedly.
But I was extremely concerned that Kabam didn’t recognize how unpleasant the endgame content was becoming to play.
In reading that Dev Diary, I feel comfortable that they understand and will make the adjustments in a reasonable timeframe to Act 6, as well as tuning content in the ways they described.
Just my opinion. I am really excited for the next six months
12.0 was a mess, they made huge changes after the outcry. They aren’t giving us much more than we already knew. I can’t even consider this a “glimpse” into the future. Because we already knew these aspects.
Tell us when act 6 is going to be toned down. So we can play our game effectively.