Dev Diary: The Future of Quests

191012141520

Comments

  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 24,065 ★★★★★
    It took a great deal of feedback. Not just someone on YouTube.
  • ESFESF Posts: 1,314 ★★★★
    I

    ESF said:

    I mean, for real: Call it what it is. Act 6 was broken from Day 1.

    Some people completed/explored it as is, and those folks deserve compensation for pain and suffering.

    But come on, now -- the Brit pulled the band-aid off, what, two months ago?

    Kabam probably had no intention of reworking Act 6 to the extent they now are before then. I understand that people want change quickly because I truly do understand being impatient, but come on, man -- they are explaining what they're gonna do with attack values and the Champion boss, you know they're gonna do something about Sinister and Mysterio.

    It's gonna take a minute, folks -- I yell and scream, too, but you gotta know by now that we get one update a month and this is gonna take a minute.

    They're doing Cavalier difficulty and trying to get a Variant out the door, Boss Rushes...give them a minute, people

    ESF said:

    I mean, for real: Call it what it is. Act 6 was broken from Day 1.

    Some people completed/explored it as is, and those folks deserve compensation for pain and suffering.

    But come on, now -- the Brit pulled the band-aid off, what, two months ago?

    Kabam probably had no intention of reworking Act 6 to the extent they now are before then. I understand that people want change quickly because I truly do understand being impatient, but come on, man -- they are explaining what they're gonna do with attack values and the Champion boss, you know they're gonna do something about Sinister and Mysterio.

    It's gonna take a minute, folks -- I yell and scream, too, but you gotta know by now that we get one update a month and this is gonna take a minute.

    They're doing Cavalier difficulty and trying to get a Variant out the door, Boss Rushes...give them a minute, people

    I do hear what you are saying, I know it’s reasonable. the issue is it took the YouTuber to say something and then 2 months for them to say, hmm we get things done feel right, tell me where it hurts and maybe we will do something, eventually, at an unknown date, if we feel like it. I do this stuff all day long professionally, it’s amazing what you can get people to be happy to accept when you frame it a certain way.

    Ok, piece said, celebrate the victory community. I will keep up with the YouTube updates on the periphery to see if I was right or a salty a hole
    The reason I don't think this is a snow job is that I honestly think they realize that the majority of the player base cannot do Act 6.

    Whatever else we talk about or disagree about or fight about, I think they know they have to get into Act 6 and make serious changes and while yeah, we complained about it before and they could have known, they probably weren't all that enthused about doing it until they looked at it again, walked it out and realized that not nearly enough people were either trying it or doing it.

    I have a pretty expansive roster. Pretty much all of the counters and enough skill. I could Unit Man the rest.

    Having all three of those...it's not always feasible for everyone, and they realize that they need to open it up and tone it down, and that isn't what they planned to do and it does take time
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 24,065 ★★★★★
    Jaded said:

    Alright then, let them just go in and make a bunch of incalculable changes overnight. That way in 3 months time we can all meet back here for another mess. Sound like fun?

    No one is saying that either dude. People would like some sort of timeline. That’ll allow people to make their own judgement on when to do the content that will change.

    Actually, kabam tried again to be “transparent” but are obviously withholding a lot of information, especially timelines.

    Hope for the best in 2021 apparently...
    No, they didn't. They gave people a road map of plans. The things that are tentatively planned, they indicated. Those that aren't pinpointed yet, they cant. What you're asking is for them to give dates they don't have.
  • Mcord11758Mcord11758 Posts: 1,257 ★★★★
    edited June 24
    Lol more like people started to see that the game was so stale that someone who’s primary income in life came from Mcoc moved on to a different game
  • JadedJaded Posts: 2,134 ★★★★★

    Jaded said:

    Alright then, let them just go in and make a bunch of incalculable changes overnight. That way in 3 months time we can all meet back here for another mess. Sound like fun?

    No one is saying that either dude. People would like some sort of timeline. That’ll allow people to make their own judgement on when to do the content that will change.

    Actually, kabam tried again to be “transparent” but are obviously withholding a lot of information, especially timelines.

    Hope for the best in 2021 apparently...
    No, they didn't. They gave people a road map of plans. The things that are tentatively planned, they indicated. Those that aren't pinpointed yet, they cant. What you're asking is for them to give dates they don't have.
    No, that’s not true either. They DO have timelines within their company and personal. They have deadlines to meet, upon which they give their employees a timeline to complete the tasks. Again something they didn’t share. I highly doubt anyone is looking for an exact date of arrival of changes. Instead looking for some kind of timeline so they can make decisions on their game.
  • ESFESF Posts: 1,314 ★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    I can already see the pasty white statue they erect for the mighty Seatin, who cleverly feigned disinterest in MCOC to trick the evil developers into completely revamping the game into the wonderful paradise future players will get to enjoy. It should show one hand reaching upward, pointing to the heavens, a British flag cape fluttering behind him, while off to the side a dumpster fire burns with an eternal flame, the words "Kabam offers" stenciled across its face, the only other monument visible from a distance upon Salisbury Plain.

    You know the funny part?

    I was already salty when the Brit dropped his video because I had (what I thought was) a very respectful post about anything we could do to please get a Magneto buff on the schedule straight-up deleted the day before.

    I was so freaking mad that got deleted, every single thing that had been bothering me was already on my mind when the Brit posted that video
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 24,065 ★★★★★
    So....I want what I want and I want it now? Gothcha.
    Believe it or not, not everything is finalized and depends on work and data before it can be given a timeline.
    It's not going to do any good to say: Mayvembruary 45st.
  • Crazygamer88Crazygamer88 Posts: 99
    @Kabam Miike Just one question. What year of 5-star Rank up gem (3-4) back issue #5 will include? Hoping you guys can do 2017 since we have already covered 2015 and 2016
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 24,065 ★★★★★
    No. They're not preferring to withhold anything. Just because you want one doesn't mean they have one. I didn't actually think I'd have to break it down this much, but onwards we go.
    You know that thing you do before you do a project, where you sit down and plan it? That's exactly what they're giving us. The word transparency has been used on here so much I've grown to hate Windex. It doesn't get more transparent than that. People wanted information. So they gave it at the pass. Now it's not enough because they don't know when they'll be done the thing they haven't done yet. This is exhausting.
  • JadedJaded Posts: 2,134 ★★★★★

    No. They're not preferring to withhold anything. Just because you want one doesn't mean they have one. I didn't actually think I'd have to break it down this much, but onwards we go.
    You know that thing you do before you do a project, where you sit down and plan it? That's exactly what they're giving us. The word transparency has been used on here so much I've grown to hate Windex. It doesn't get more transparent than that. People wanted information. So they gave it at the pass. Now it's not enough because they don't know when they'll be done the thing they haven't done yet. This is exhausting.

    Apparently people need to explain more to you than you’d like...
    They shared exactly what they want us to know, not everything. They already sat down and planned everything out. That’s how a company works. There will already be teams working on this road map on all parts of it. Even before releasing this information there were already people working on it. So I can’t believe I have to explain to someone.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 24,065 ★★★★★
    Jaded said:

    No. They're not preferring to withhold anything. Just because you want one doesn't mean they have one. I didn't actually think I'd have to break it down this much, but onwards we go.
    You know that thing you do before you do a project, where you sit down and plan it? That's exactly what they're giving us. The word transparency has been used on here so much I've grown to hate Windex. It doesn't get more transparent than that. People wanted information. So they gave it at the pass. Now it's not enough because they don't know when they'll be done the thing they haven't done yet. This is exhausting.

    Apparently people need to explain more to you than you’d like...
    They shared exactly what they want us to know, not everything. They already sat down and planned everything out. That’s how a company works. There will already be teams working on this road map on all parts of it. Even before releasing this information there were already people working on it. So I can’t believe I have to explain to someone.
    You're free to believe that if that's what you think, but I'm confident if they had more dates, they would give it. For that matter, demanding it isn't going to do any good. Walk into Apple and demand a deadline outline of everything they're working on. See how that goes.
  • WorknprogressWorknprogress Posts: 4,269 ★★★★★

    @danielmath Who is that?

    have you heard of corvus? the flow killer?
    This guy?

    Never heard of him.
    And he’s far from being best champ in the game.
    yup! he's not the best champ, i specified 6* and quake doesn't exist as a 6* :)
    He's far from the best 6 star too. Ghost, Sparkles, Fury, Sunspot, Colossus, Aegon, Doom, and Claire are all better than him. Corvus's only use is in AQ, EQ, and AW whereas all the ones I listed above can be used everywhere
    that's bonkers, granted outa those i only have ghost and fury at rank 3 (neither are close to corvus) but to say sunspot, aegon, doom, claire are BETTER is complete insanity
    Have you done Act 6? Corvus is almost useless in Act 6, unless you are running full suicides and cosmic power boosts. Claire, Doom, Aegon, and Sunspot are absolute beasts for Act 6 and I definitely wouldn't have done Act 6 100% without them whereas I used my Corvus for a total of 1 path in all of Act 6. He is still a great champ, but in order to be one of the best, champs need to be used in more than just AQ and AW.
    I've done everything and he was my main war attacker all season, not ghost who i also have at rank 3. Anyone can quest, i put little to no value in that but it's a different perspective i guess. I did legends run for 6.4 so that was mostly r3 ghost, with some corvus paths (he wasn't rank 3 at the time)
    Ah, see I have no interest in War. I'm in a gold 2 alliance and as so don't have to deal with defensive tactics. Corvus is my main war attacker, but that doesn't mean I think he's the top champ. Saying who is the best champ in the game is just a matter of opinion. I'd personally say that Claire is the best champ in the game since she has the best blend of sustainability, utility, and damage.
    Claire isn't even top 10 more than likely
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 10,701 Guardian
    Jaded said:

    No. They're not preferring to withhold anything. Just because you want one doesn't mean they have one. I didn't actually think I'd have to break it down this much, but onwards we go.
    You know that thing you do before you do a project, where you sit down and plan it? That's exactly what they're giving us. The word transparency has been used on here so much I've grown to hate Windex. It doesn't get more transparent than that. People wanted information. So they gave it at the pass. Now it's not enough because they don't know when they'll be done the thing they haven't done yet. This is exhausting.

    Apparently people need to explain more to you than you’d like...
    They shared exactly what they want us to know, not everything. They already sat down and planned everything out. That’s how a company works. There will already be teams working on this road map on all parts of it. Even before releasing this information there were already people working on it. So I can’t believe I have to explain to someone.
    Game development normally happens with pipelines of vertical teams. Timelines are estimated based on estimated windows of availability, and usually a good producer can guestimate that to some degree. But if they've changed too many things in too many pipelines, those estimators are vaporized, and there wouldn't be obvious ways to predict when things would reach deliverable states for a while. Its not like you can tell everyone to work on one specific thing for the next three months, because most game development doesn't work in that way. Sometimes you'll see specific rainmaker teams work on one specific problem out of normal pipeline, but I'm unaware of anyone who does that for everything. So they might be able to say what their priorities are, but not when those individual priorities would come to fruition more precisely than before or after the end of the year vagueness.

    Some things of course they specifically stated they were withholding. For example, they said they have an idea of what kinds of changes they want to make to Act 6, but they don't want to announce those before they've had a chance to have an open dialog with their focus groups so they don't skew the conversation. Frankly, as silly as some people seem to think that is, its what I would do in their place. I'd be concerned I was push-polling my players.
  • WorknprogressWorknprogress Posts: 4,269 ★★★★★

    Kaspy said:

    gsil6374 said:



    They gave a tentative for what they have. They can't give time frames for what they don't have yet. It's a detailed look into what they're working on. It isn't an itinerary.

    Dude, movies can get a timeframe when a script is just being written. Your going to tell me they can't give one from the development team here. I find that very hard to believe.
    I've worked in movies, and I can tell you that this is not how that works. Game Development is also a very different beast and you can't compare. We don't have timelines yet because we don't have a final list of what we want to do. Exploration of Data takes time, and then so does coming up with what changes we need to make to address those issues, and depending on the scale... we could be looking at weeks or months just to implement them.
    The lack of details and information puts many of us at a standstill with act 6. Do we keep trudging along with hopes that we will get compensated? Or do we just halt act 6 all together?

    I realize it takes time, but the attack values seems like something you could adjust relatively quickly and give a specific timeline on. I mean, you adjusted attack values in act 7 Beta in like 1 day. Why is adjusting the attack values in act 6 going to take months?
    And then we'd have a different set of players getting a different experience in Act 6 with lowered Attack ratings but an unchanged Champion, and if we do those two, then we have ANOTHER set of Players that are having a different experience than those that will come after when we've hit some of the other Pain Point fights.

    This is not going to be a quick and easy thing. If you want to go forward in Act 6 now or wait for adjustments is up to you. While you don't have a timeline, you are aware that we are coming up with a plan.
    In all fairness, you guys broke it you should prioritize fixing it timely. Right now you are banking on wordy statements on future promises holding people over. The time line is now not a time to be determined later
    If it's been finished by plenty of people it wasn't "broken" at all. All that means is is large percentage of players decided it was more than they were willing to trudge through. That doesn't mean you're entitled to an immediate change, you'll get it when they finish it. If the difficulty was too high to complete for the rewards on offer, you shouldn't have any problem waiting for it to be reduced and get the same rewards that people got for completing much harder content.

    Some of you just can't be pleased. You get what you ask for but oh no it's not fast enough for your liking. A lot of us dealt with it as it was and will get the same as you do for basically sleepwalking through it. I don't want compensation for that as it's ridiculous,but Christ you guys need to chill with the expectations a bit
  • SbkruebSbkrueb Posts: 50

    ItsDamien said:

    gsil6374 said:



    They gave a tentative for what they have. They can't give time frames for what they don't have yet. It's a detailed look into what they're working on. It isn't an itinerary.

    Dude, movies can get a timeframe when a script is just being written. Your going to tell me they can't give one from the development team here. I find that very hard to believe.
    I've worked in movies, and I can tell you that this is not how that works. Game Development is also a very different beast and you can't compare. We don't have timelines yet because we don't have a final list of what we want to do. Exploration of Data takes time, and then so does coming up with what changes we need to make to address those issues, and depending on the scale... we could be looking at weeks or months just to implement them.
    My counter argument of "Exploration of Data takes time", is that any sort of road map shouldn't be announced publicly before you've had time to review that data. No games company I've worked for, or with, would announce without the proper data to hand so they can provide a thorough expectation for their community.

    What has been provided so far, is the road map of the road map, with the hopes of filling the blank spots as you go.
    We thought about that, but we also knew that our players wanted information now. If we wanted to wait to give more information, then you would be waiting for months, because that's how long it takes. I won't be asking the team to change our future Roadmap posts, and there will be more information without definite timelines. There are a lot of people that enjoy these glimpses into the future and understanding what is on the far horizon.

    There are definitely lots of Game Companies that share priorities and insights into things that are way in the distance without timelines. From speaking vaguely on new features, to talking about future priorities that don't have any action items. We've done this in the past as well, and I feel it gives players a better understanding of the shape of the game to come so that when there is new content or changes made, you already understand where that fits and why.
    We havent seen eye to eye often Miike, but this was well said.
    Salud!
  • Gmail12345Gmail12345 Posts: 120

    Stuch said:

    @Kabam Miike Can we get more timeframes for when each changes is coming. As of right now, we’ve gotten very few times, which just makes all of these changes seem like hypotheticals that aren’t really coming (soon)

    He's answered some already. V5 is announced. Same with the Act 2 changes.
    V6 hopefully before the end of the year, imagine early next year at the latest.

    They cannot give a timeframe on Act 6 nerf, nor on any compensation. Act 6 will be one major update. If they roll it out in sections, then it creates more work.
    For example I've got act 6 completion, @Gamer has 100% - we already have different compensation levels. They lower attack ratings, you complete it, but someone else 100%s it.. then 3 months later they change the boss fights, they then need to compensate 4 different - pre nerf completion, pre nerf explore, nerf completion and nerf explore.

    See the issue? That's without if they look into percentages of exploration.

    Also, they need to look at data - take note of what we've said. Speak to their 'focus group' and ensure any changes they make need to be feasible, approved by management - and test to some degree.
    I know they have to consult Disney on making champs, the designs / animations - I'm not sure if they'd need to consult on the nerfs or not. If they do it'll need to be approved by them too.

    Its a lot of variables - if focus group takes a week, it'll be faster, if it takes them a month. Longer. If this whole virus thing peaks again, it'll cause delays.

    They won't want to commit to a solid deadline, until they have at least figured out the scale of essentially redesigning Act 6.
    Good news, they know what they're doing with 6.2.6 champion boss, at the moment they're only looking at removing No Retreat from the champion fight - but this too could change.
    They know the percentages they're able to reduce attack values by, they just need to figure out which fights need what (data can most likely tell them that).

    My guess would be around christmas time - I dont see them wanting Act 6 hanging over them at christmas, plus they've promised Book 2 will not be released, until after Act 6 nerf.
    They’ve said book 2 will be released 1st December 2020 and they hop to have some if not all the act 6 updates by then, so it could be next year before all the act 6 updates are done and book 2 will be released regardless
  • DoubleDeltaDoubleDelta Posts: 1,203 ★★★
    Markjv81 said:

    Look at the war changes and tell me they are listening to our feelings and concerns and putting forth changes to ease them

    Bare in mind today wasnt even the road map war changes. Will likely hear a lot more on the 25th
    What more is there to add? Maybe stuff for future season but 19 will be set as is at this stage.
    They've changed things in the past- few seasons ago, Aegis heavy / intercept.
    Theyve removed the hidden nodes already. Theyve given us attack tactics How much do you expect the to do when this map was likely built long before?

    I'm not happy with the current season setup.. but I understand that they can't just remake an entire map overnight. S20 will likely be a lot better, and we'll see exactly what theyre changing tomorrow.
  • arjanroxxarjanroxx Posts: 9
    @Kabam Miike WTH this sucks for players who are stuck in 5.2 id there nothing for middle players. There is nothing for free to players. Please make some changes to mastr and 5.2
  • DoubleDeltaDoubleDelta Posts: 1,203 ★★★

    Stuch said:

    @Kabam Miike Can we get more timeframes for when each changes is coming. As of right now, we’ve gotten very few times, which just makes all of these changes seem like hypotheticals that aren’t really coming (soon)

    He's answered some already. V5 is announced. Same with the Act 2 changes.
    V6 hopefully before the end of the year, imagine early next year at the latest.

    They cannot give a timeframe on Act 6 nerf, nor on any compensation. Act 6 will be one major update. If they roll it out in sections, then it creates more work.
    For example I've got act 6 completion, @Gamer has 100% - we already have different compensation levels. They lower attack ratings, you complete it, but someone else 100%s it.. then 3 months later they change the boss fights, they then need to compensate 4 different - pre nerf completion, pre nerf explore, nerf completion and nerf explore.

    See the issue? That's without if they look into percentages of exploration.

    Also, they need to look at data - take note of what we've said. Speak to their 'focus group' and ensure any changes they make need to be feasible, approved by management - and test to some degree.
    I know they have to consult Disney on making champs, the designs / animations - I'm not sure if they'd need to consult on the nerfs or not. If they do it'll need to be approved by them too.

    Its a lot of variables - if focus group takes a week, it'll be faster, if it takes them a month. Longer. If this whole virus thing peaks again, it'll cause delays.

    They won't want to commit to a solid deadline, until they have at least figured out the scale of essentially redesigning Act 6.
    Good news, they know what they're doing with 6.2.6 champion boss, at the moment they're only looking at removing No Retreat from the champion fight - but this too could change.
    They know the percentages they're able to reduce attack values by, they just need to figure out which fights need what (data can most likely tell them that).

    My guess would be around christmas time - I dont see them wanting Act 6 hanging over them at christmas, plus they've promised Book 2 will not be released, until after Act 6 nerf.
    They’ve said book 2 will be released 1st December 2020 and they hop to have some if not all the act 6 updates by then, so it could be next year before all the act 6 updates are done and book 2 will be released regardless
    They've said all of act 6 will be will be done before book two is released. So if theyre releasing book 2 in December - expect act 6 in November
  • StevieManWonderStevieManWonder Posts: 2,337 ★★★★★

    @danielmath Who is that?

    have you heard of corvus? the flow killer?
    This guy?

    Never heard of him.
    And he’s far from being best champ in the game.
    yup! he's not the best champ, i specified 6* and quake doesn't exist as a 6* :)
    He's far from the best 6 star too. Ghost, Sparkles, Fury, Sunspot, Colossus, Aegon, Doom, and Claire are all better than him. Corvus's only use is in AQ, EQ, and AW whereas all the ones I listed above can be used everywhere
    that's bonkers, granted outa those i only have ghost and fury at rank 3 (neither are close to corvus) but to say sunspot, aegon, doom, claire are BETTER is complete insanity
    Have you done Act 6? Corvus is almost useless in Act 6, unless you are running full suicides and cosmic power boosts. Claire, Doom, Aegon, and Sunspot are absolute beasts for Act 6 and I definitely wouldn't have done Act 6 100% without them whereas I used my Corvus for a total of 1 path in all of Act 6. He is still a great champ, but in order to be one of the best, champs need to be used in more than just AQ and AW.
    I've done everything and he was my main war attacker all season, not ghost who i also have at rank 3. Anyone can quest, i put little to no value in that but it's a different perspective i guess. I did legends run for 6.4 so that was mostly r3 ghost, with some corvus paths (he wasn't rank 3 at the time)
    Ah, see I have no interest in War. I'm in a gold 2 alliance and as so don't have to deal with defensive tactics. Corvus is my main war attacker, but that doesn't mean I think he's the top champ. Saying who is the best champ in the game is just a matter of opinion. I'd personally say that Claire is the best champ in the game since she has the best blend of sustainability, utility, and damage.
    Claire isn't even top 10 more than likely
    Like I said, it’s subjective. For me, Claire is one of the top of not the top champs in the game. I used her to get through so much of Act 6 and use her a lot in AQ and AW
Sign In or Register to comment.