Dev Diary: The Future of Quests

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Comments

  • KapitzKapitz Posts: 44
    mgj0630 said:


    I would never claim that our products are flawless, but we make every effort to catch everything before it reaches out customers, and with the exception of very niche circumstances, we do a pretty good job of it.

    To that end, why do you suppose we need a focus group now? Kabam has had betas of various Act 6 chapters, and now Book 2 (Act 7), where all of these topics have been raised, and yet now they are finally prepared to revisit this content, but claim they need to "analyze data".

    Based on changes made as a result of betas in the past (Book 2 notwithstanding), it's a pretty safe assumption to say Kabam have treated their betas as a User Acceptance Testing exercise rather than an avenue for soliciting player feedback. Which is to say that they're really just looking to get as many players using different champions, masteries, synergies and the like on as many different devices as possible to verify there aren't obvious bugs/crashes before releasing the content widely. In other words, beta testers are free labour as doing the equivalent internally would take them so long we'd be lucky to see one piece of content a year. There are enough skilled players within the Kabam office that It's naive to think Kabam aren't aware of exactly how difficult/niche some content was well before it goes into beta, which in turn means that difficulty was a conscious decision likely made in the planning stages. Whether those decisions were good/bad for the game has been endlessly debated, but it's pretty clear that's not what the betas were really intended for.

    As for the 'focus group', they're probably not going to be asking participants to join a beta server and see how they go with some freshly tweaked encounters. Their post already stated that they've got some ideas of their own on how to address the various pain points (again, they do play the game as well so would have a pretty good idea), so they'll likely be validating these with the participants before locking anything in. There's been literally thousands of pieces of feedback lately and making sure they've correctly distilled it all is much more practical with a targeted focus group instead of starting a loop of getting 1000's more pieces of feedback on the response to the feedback. Either way, it's a positive step that they're actively seeking more feedback from outside their internal bubble.

    As for the lack of timeline - let's wait and see the other parts of the roadmap before we jump down Kabam's throat. It's easily possible they're wanting to see the response to their announcements before they lock some things in, just as it's possible it's simply a matter of now having a new backlog of small changes to fit into release windows that they didn't before and are still working through the stacking order.

    Heck -- they could even be keeping their options open so they can do something as wild as prioritising release dates based on what the community receives the best. Personally, I'm inclined to give Kabam the benefit of the doubt at least until at least after Part 4 drops :)
  • DoubleDeltaDoubleDelta Posts: 1,956 ★★★★
    edited June 2020
    Lvernon15 said:

    Wozzy101 said:


    If it’s units that are part of the rewards buff I think we all absolutely would still use them them irrespective of how far we’ve progressed.

    They’ve said act 6 is separate to this

  • c_tribunac_tribuna Posts: 9
    @Kabam Miike would it be possible to give a date for the attack reductions to go live in Act6? This seems like the easier change, that would make a great difference for people exploring it.
    I understand that identifying the pain points and reworking them, will take longer, but reducing attack value will greatly improve the experience.
    In my case for example, I have 12 paths left to 100% 6.4 and Act 6, don't really want to wait until November-December to finish this.
    Would be nice to have the attack reduction rolled out with next update, being very optimistic, or in August with the Champion update.
  • GomezlinkGomezlink Posts: 129
    While the changes do not arrive, those who only have Act 6 to do, are idle ... If it is to change, change it soon
  • DoubleDeltaDoubleDelta Posts: 1,956 ★★★★

    Seraphion said:

    gsil6374 said:



    They gave a tentative for what they have. They can't give time frames for what they don't have yet. It's a detailed look into what they're working on. It isn't an itinerary.

    Dude, movies can get a timeframe when a script is just being written. Your going to tell me they can't give one from the development team here. I find that very hard to believe.
    I've worked in movies, and I can tell you that this is not how that works. Game Development is also a very different beast and you can't compare. We don't have timelines yet because we don't have a final list of what we want to do. Exploration of Data takes time, and then so does coming up with what changes we need to make to address those issues, and depending on the scale... we could be looking at weeks or months just to implement them.
    Will the act 6 changes come in 1 go or piece by piece?
    Bc if you would put in the attack reduction now then ppl could explore some chapters while you do the final work on pain points.

    I think that would be the best solution bc ppl would have something to do now :)
    @Seraphion its one go. If they roll out multiple versions it'll cause one massive mess. Nerf attack they need to compensate pre nerf, nerf champion, then they need to compensate pre nerf and pre champion nerf.. if they do any other bosses.

    Let them have their time to finish it, hopefully they'll do it right this time
    They haven’t said that at all, you really need to read the message in full.




    @Gmail12345 Page 10. Thank you for telling me I haven't read the message
  • Gmail12345Gmail12345 Posts: 172 ★★

    Seraphion said:

    gsil6374 said:



    They gave a tentative for what they have. They can't give time frames for what they don't have yet. It's a detailed look into what they're working on. It isn't an itinerary.

    Dude, movies can get a timeframe when a script is just being written. Your going to tell me they can't give one from the development team here. I find that very hard to believe.
    I've worked in movies, and I can tell you that this is not how that works. Game Development is also a very different beast and you can't compare. We don't have timelines yet because we don't have a final list of what we want to do. Exploration of Data takes time, and then so does coming up with what changes we need to make to address those issues, and depending on the scale... we could be looking at weeks or months just to implement them.
    Will the act 6 changes come in 1 go or piece by piece?
    Bc if you would put in the attack reduction now then ppl could explore some chapters while you do the final work on pain points.

    I think that would be the best solution bc ppl would have something to do now :)
    @Seraphion its one go. If they roll out multiple versions it'll cause one massive mess. Nerf attack they need to compensate pre nerf, nerf champion, then they need to compensate pre nerf and pre champion nerf.. if they do any other bosses.

    Let them have their time to finish it, hopefully they'll do it right this time
    They haven’t said that at all, you really need to read the message in full.

    Kabam Miike has.. you need to read the forums..
    SMH, No that’s wrong, you told the person they would do all changes to act 6 in one go and they’ve not said that at all.
    I don’t think mike would say something thats directly Opposite to the main post.
    Please read it again
  • MauledMauled Posts: 2,514 ★★★★★
    Wozzy101 said:

    Lvernon15 said:

    Wozzy101 said:


    If it’s units that are part of the rewards buff I think we all absolutely would still use them them irrespective of how far we’ve progressed.

    They’ve said act 6 is separate to this
    Talking about changes to earlier acts. Act 1 was changed with a significant amount of additional units compared to when I cleared it. If they do the same with other acts I’m pointing that I disagree with the premise that just because you’re past the level, doesn’t mean the resources won’t help.
    Same amount units as before they just removed a lot from individual quest completion/exploration
  • PulyamanPulyaman Posts: 799 ★★★
    I think it will be better thing is to just lock act 6 down for now and let players play after the changes.
  • phillgreenphillgreen Posts: 2,161 ★★★★
    I'm a bit confused.

    Already completed progress from Act 1 and 2 will be wiped but I can go back and re-run for rewards?

  • Gmail12345Gmail12345 Posts: 172 ★★

    Seraphion said:

    gsil6374 said:



    They gave a tentative for what they have. They can't give time frames for what they don't have yet. It's a detailed look into what they're working on. It isn't an itinerary.

    Dude, movies can get a timeframe when a script is just being written. Your going to tell me they can't give one from the development team here. I find that very hard to believe.
    I've worked in movies, and I can tell you that this is not how that works. Game Development is also a very different beast and you can't compare. We don't have timelines yet because we don't have a final list of what we want to do. Exploration of Data takes time, and then so does coming up with what changes we need to make to address those issues, and depending on the scale... we could be looking at weeks or months just to implement them.
    Will the act 6 changes come in 1 go or piece by piece?
    Bc if you would put in the attack reduction now then ppl could explore some chapters while you do the final work on pain points.

    I think that would be the best solution bc ppl would have something to do now :)
    @Seraphion its one go. If they roll out multiple versions it'll cause one massive mess. Nerf attack they need to compensate pre nerf, nerf champion, then they need to compensate pre nerf and pre champion nerf.. if they do any other bosses.

    Let them have their time to finish it, hopefully they'll do it right this time
    They haven’t said that at all, you really need to read the message in full.




    @Gmail12345 Page 10. Thank you for telling me I haven't read the message
    No problem
  • TheKiryuTheKiryu Posts: 196 ★★★
    Alright. So where does one apply to locate pain points in act 6?
  • RockypantherxRockypantherx Posts: 3,054 ★★★★★
    @TheKiryu link at the bottom of Miikes original post
  • A_NAZA_NAZ Posts: 460 ★★★
    TheKiryu said:

    Alright. So where does one apply to locate pain points in act 6?

    Link is at the bottom of the OP mate
  • DoubleDeltaDoubleDelta Posts: 1,956 ★★★★
    TheKiryu said:

    Alright. So where does one apply to locate pain points in act 6?

    Believe its on page 1, bottom of the OP
  • DoubleDeltaDoubleDelta Posts: 1,956 ★★★★
    @A_NAZ why are you everywhere! Leave me alone! Following me into -Dro- too!
  • DoubleDeltaDoubleDelta Posts: 1,956 ★★★★


    Seraphion said:

    gsil6374 said:



    They gave a tentative for what they have. They can't give time frames for what they don't have yet. It's a detailed look into what they're working on. It isn't an itinerary.

    Dude, movies can get a timeframe when a script is just being written. Your going to tell me they can't give one from the development team here. I find that very hard to believe.
    I've worked in movies, and I can tell you that this is not how that works. Game Development is also a very different beast and you can't compare. We don't have timelines yet because we don't have a final list of what we want to do. Exploration of Data takes time, and then so does coming up with what changes we need to make to address those issues, and depending on the scale... we could be looking at weeks or months just to implement them.
    Will the act 6 changes come in 1 go or piece by piece?
    Bc if you would put in the attack reduction now then ppl could explore some chapters while you do the final work on pain points.

    I think that would be the best solution bc ppl would have something to do now :)
    @Seraphion its one go. If they roll out multiple versions it'll cause one massive mess. Nerf attack they need to compensate pre nerf, nerf champion, then they need to compensate pre nerf and pre champion nerf.. if they do any other bosses.

    Let them have their time to finish it, hopefully they'll do it right this time
    They haven’t said that at all, you really need to read the message in full.




    @Gmail12345 Page 10. Thank you for telling me I haven't read the message
    No problem
    @Gmail12345 have you read it yourself now? Theres a lot of questions been answered if you flick through looking for orange
  • Gmail12345Gmail12345 Posts: 172 ★★


    Seraphion said:

    gsil6374 said:



    They gave a tentative for what they have. They can't give time frames for what they don't have yet. It's a detailed look into what they're working on. It isn't an itinerary.

    Dude, movies can get a timeframe when a script is just being written. Your going to tell me they can't give one from the development team here. I find that very hard to believe.
    I've worked in movies, and I can tell you that this is not how that works. Game Development is also a very different beast and you can't compare. We don't have timelines yet because we don't have a final list of what we want to do. Exploration of Data takes time, and then so does coming up with what changes we need to make to address those issues, and depending on the scale... we could be looking at weeks or months just to implement them.
    Will the act 6 changes come in 1 go or piece by piece?
    Bc if you would put in the attack reduction now then ppl could explore some chapters while you do the final work on pain points.

    I think that would be the best solution bc ppl would have something to do now :)
    @Seraphion its one go. If they roll out multiple versions it'll cause one massive mess. Nerf attack they need to compensate pre nerf, nerf champion, then they need to compensate pre nerf and pre champion nerf.. if they do any other bosses.

    Let them have their time to finish it, hopefully they'll do it right this time
    They haven’t said that at all, you really need to read the message in full.




    @Gmail12345 Page 10. Thank you for telling me I haven't read the message
    No problem
    @Gmail12345 have you read it yourself now? Theres a lot of questions been answered if you flick through looking for orange
    Yes I’ve read through it a couple of times, you told one person that they will make the act 6 changes before they release book 2 and another guy that they would do all the act 6 changes at once. There’s enough confusion already with out you telling people the wrong info.
  • PandayPirataPandayPirata Posts: 20
    I know Kabam is still formulating and discussing amongst themselves how to compensate but I hope compensation is proportional to how much you have explored Act 6 pre nerf. So those who 100% will get more compensation than those who did completion only.

  • Jx5priceJx5price Posts: 11
    Just to get this on the record, compensation shouldn't just be tied to overall completion of Act 6. Plenty of us are in the midst of going through it, and I know I used a decent chunk of resources (potions, revives, units - sometimes at a real money cost). I spent a decent amount just on my Champion attempts, and only stopped because of the roadmap announcement. If there will be compensation, everyone that used resources to get to where they are in Act 6 should be refunded a certain percentage of what they used or something equivalent. Im not going to "push through" because I seriously doubt the compensation is going to be equal to what will need to be used/spent. That feels like another attempt at a quick money grab to get people to rush through content to get some mythical compensation.
  • whatthewhat71whatthewhat71 Posts: 49
    @Kabam Miike can anyone explain what recent completion means? I 100% 6.2 a year ago, since that time many champs have come out that offer better counters for that fight, like mojo etc. So why would only the recent people be given compensation, I spent more units on that stupid fight then any other part of the game including abyss. Can someone please address this.
  • Marvel_GMarvel_G Posts: 32

    Kaspy said:

    gsil6374 said:



    They gave a tentative for what they have. They can't give time frames for what they don't have yet. It's a detailed look into what they're working on. It isn't an itinerary.

    Dude, movies can get a timeframe when a script is just being written. Your going to tell me they can't give one from the development team here. I find that very hard to believe.
    I've worked in movies, and I can tell you that this is not how that works. Game Development is also a very different beast and you can't compare. We don't have timelines yet because we don't have a final list of what we want to do. Exploration of Data takes time, and then so does coming up with what changes we need to make to address those issues, and depending on the scale... we could be looking at weeks or months just to implement them.
    The lack of details and information puts many of us at a standstill with act 6. Do we keep trudging along with hopes that we will get compensated? Or do we just halt act 6 all together?

    I realize it takes time, but the attack values seems like something you could adjust relatively quickly and give a specific timeline on. I mean, you adjusted attack values in act 7 Beta in like 1 day. Why is adjusting the attack values in act 6 going to take months?
    And then we'd have a different set of players getting a different experience in Act 6 with lowered Attack ratings but an unchanged Champion, and if we do those two, then we have ANOTHER set of Players that are having a different experience than those that will come after when we've hit some of the other Pain Point fights.

    This is not going to be a quick and easy thing. If you want to go forward in Act 6 now or wait for adjustments is up to you. While you don't have a timeline, you are aware that we are coming up with a plan.
    The part wehere you say “ And then we'd have a different set of players getting a different experience in Act 6 with lowered Attack ratings but an unchanged Champion, and if we do those two, then we have ANOTHER set of Players that are having a different experience than those”

    I just want to know who are these players that would have a “different” experience with lower attack values. Really do you even have a percentage of these “set of players”. I’m pretty sure it’s not a lot of them. Plus at the end you can do what you feel is fair for everyone. It’s like saying something cost $10.00 in the store and you review and say “you know what! Let’s lower the price to $5.00” and you are concerned because people will never be happy complaining because they are paying less? I don’t get it (You will always have those people/players who you will never pleased) why waste time

  • FrostyFrosty Posts: 448 ★★★
    TheKiryu said:

    Alright. So where does one apply to locate pain points in act 6?

    Page 1
  • SiliyoSiliyo Posts: 681 ★★★

    gsil6374 said:



    They gave a tentative for what they have. They can't give time frames for what they don't have yet. It's a detailed look into what they're working on. It isn't an itinerary.

    Dude, movies can get a timeframe when a script is just being written. Your going to tell me they can't give one from the development team here. I find that very hard to believe.
    I've worked in movies, and I can tell you that this is not how that works. Game Development is also a very different beast and you can't compare. We don't have timelines yet because we don't have a final list of what we want to do. Exploration of Data takes time, and then so does coming up with what changes we need to make to address those issues, and depending on the scale... we could be looking at weeks or months just to implement them.
    So you’re telling us the roadmap is all fluff and are not part of the final list?
  • FineDogFineDog Posts: 316 ★★

    FineDog said:

    This is disappointing for Uncollected players. There was almost nothing in this post that is relevant for mid-game players. I imagine the future posts about champion buffs and arena changes and stuff like that might be more relevant, but if you're still grinding through Act 5, all the stuff about Act 6 is basically meaningless, all the stuff about new Variants isn't particularly useful, the Summer of Pain isn't even something to think about. As an Uncollected player, the only thing here that I can do anything with is go replay Act 2 for the rewards after it gets reset.

    I would argue that this means the MOST to our Uncollected Summoners. The step after that is becoming Cavalier, and that opens up another big world for you. That may not be right now, but when you get to it, these improvements are going to make it a better transition for you.
    Sure, but I've been Uncollected for awhile and I'm still struggling through 5.3. I'm not in a high performing alliance (and don't have the time to be), so I rely mostly on quest rewards to rank up, and it's not easy to get a big roster of Rank 5 or even Rank 4 champs that way. Act 6 is a long way off for me.
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