Dev Diary: The Future of Quests

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Comments

  • DabNation1DabNation1 Posts: 20
    After thinking about it all day, i think compensation for Act 6/champion should be % of current completion rewards.... Lets say based on attack/health reduction/champion nerf; act 6 is going to be 30% easier. The compensation for those who have 100% the content should be 30% of the completion rewards. That would be fair and not take into account who spent what. This would be a less complicated solution.
  • TheMightyJonTheMightyJon Posts: 52

    No mention of arenas, we are long overdue a 5* basic arena and now we need a featured 6* one as well.

    Today was only about quests, arenas is covered in a separate day.
  • DoubleDeltaDoubleDelta Posts: 1,956 ★★★★
    mgj0630 said:

    @DNA3000 I would like your opinion on this because I have come to appreciate your unbiased, analytical approach. That said, in this case, I hope you'll be able to turn off your analytics and just give your "gut" assessment.

    Full disclosure, I do not work in a for profit gaming industry. I do however work in a defense tech industry. Everytime we release a product, we have a slew of employees, myself included, who have relevant experience from the target audience, that test the product against the use case our customers will employ.

    I would never claim that our products are flawless, but we make every effort to catch everything before it reaches out customers, and with the exception of very niche circumstances, we do a pretty good job of it.

    To that end, why do you suppose we need a focus group now? Kabam has had betas of various Act 6 chapters, and now Book 2 (Act 7), where all of these topics have been raised, and yet now they are finally prepared to revisit this content, but claim they need to "analyze data".

    What was the point of the betas if not to analyze data and adjust prior to release? I've been a part of many of those betas, and I can look back at the forum posts pointing out all the items they are now planning to address.

    Furthermore, why are we left without a definitive timeline? I get that changing specifics to a given encounter (reducing the Champion charges during the last 10% from 5 to 3) may take more time given its a specific fight that has hundreds of champ variables. That said, something like attack values, which they've claimed they will be reducing, seems far more straight forward. If a global node increases attack value by 500%, is it not straight forward to change that to 300%? I don't write code for a living, but a sweeping change like that actually seems infinitely easier to implement as it's nothing more than a percentage change.

    Again, I'm tagging you because I value your opinion, and I'm genuinely confused as to how they could be so blind to what was right in front of them for months without being acknowledged.

    Look forward to hearing from you.

    Side note.... something I've advocated for previously, and will reiterate here...I'm perfectly fine with fights that require very specific champ counters, so long as there is a "non-rng" method of obtaining said champ. They have featured crystals with a more narrow pool of champs at an increased cost already. Why not have an option to spend an even higher amount, call it 75k 5* shards, to simply pick a champ, no RNG involved, and let you do it twice a year, and only once per champ (you can't dupe a champ in this fashion).

    No need to comment on that last bit if you don't want to. That's more in hopes that someone from Kabam sees it.




    To that end, why do you suppose we need a focus group now? Kabam has had betas of various Act 6 chapters, and now Book 2 (Act 7), where all of these topics have been raised, and yet now they are finally prepared to revisit this content, but claim they need to "analyze data".


    Probably for a number of reasons, they will have the CCP and a separate focus group to review any changes they wise to make, it allows them to potentially reopen a beta and test revised variations. They've said they are looking at every individual fight, so they're likely to want to play with data live.
    Also, although they play the game, they're not the community, they will see things with rose tinted glasses, and won't always see what we see. For example, 6.2.6 champion boss was meant to be impossible to solo. It was solo'd on its premiere.

    The more input they get on this, the better - I would rather wait a bit longer, and have it done right. We've all seen the game isn't tested as well as it should be - maybe this is a step in the right direction, and their slowly letting more people into help them. I cant complain about that after what they've been like historically.



    What was the point of the betas if not to analyze data and adjust prior to release? I've been a part of many of those betas, and I can look back at the forum posts pointing out all the items they are now planning to address.



    You raise a good point here - I think they honestly were looking at it as a challenge for those as a top 1%. Where there was such a large time gap between becoming Uncollected and 6.1's release, I can only presume they tried target them naturally as the audience, and that those below would happily wait an equal amount of time to complete. I dont think they took the consideration of the skill and determination of those top few into account, which is why we ended up with such scaled content. Its more of a case they listened to numbers over people. Hopefully this is now changing.


    Furthermore, why are we left without a definitive timeline? I get that changing specifics to a given encounter (reducing the Champion charges during the last 10% from 5 to 3) may take more time given its a specific fight that has hundreds of champ variables. That said, something like attack values, which they've claimed they will be reducing, seems far more straight forward. If a global node increases attack value by 500%, is it not straight forward to change that to 300%? I don't write code for a living, but a sweeping change like that actually seems infinitely easier to implement as it's nothing more than a percentage change.


    Issue is, they're not just looking at one fight, or a one size fits all solution - if it was a bulk standard reduce everything by 40% remove these nodes, change this from 5 to 3, it would be a lot easier.

    They're looking at each individual fight, reducing the attack values based on that fight by 40-60% if I remember rightly. Whilst doing that, they're looking at the node combinations. Now if they edit the node combinations, that could affect the amount of attack they want to reduce - the same vice versa.

    They won't give a timeline until they know the scale of the work - you'll likely find they've already done, or started work on the champion boss.
    If they were to tell us it'll take a month, and they realise theres a lot more work than anticipated, they've shot themselves in the foot, and will either rush to meet a deadline making mistakes, or fail the deadline, which would add to the distrust.


    On the side note bit, on the 29th we're getting an announcement about champion crystals and acquisition, so hopefully we'll see a way to acquire
    champions more easily, whether through year based, class based or nexus crystals, preferrably available via shards.

    @mgj0630 I know it wasn't aimed at me, but my 2 cents on it - if you don't want to read I understand - used spoilers if not it'd be long with your original post and my comments
  • Gogeta91199Gogeta91199 Posts: 58

    Can you be a lil more specific on when the act 6 changes are going live? And will the ones get compensated who have beat the 6.2 champion boss a month or so ago?

    @Gogeta Both of these have been addressed. No date on going live - understandable considering the amount of work. Theyre going through every single fight and individually addressing each fights attack rating - not just a blanket 40% off everything. Theyre also looking into the node combos on each.

    Compensation wise, no details, likely to be after release so they can get data from newly completed vs previous attempts, considering how vast the changes are, they're likely to be large, so wont want to get them wrong.
    However, yes, you should get compensation.

    I read all that mate but I was hoping for a tentative date for the act 6 nerf given i am currently completing act 6.3 and an idea about the nerf will help me to make a decision whether to complete act 6 at the current difficulty level or pause for a while.
  • arjanroxxarjanroxx Posts: 9

    arjanroxx said:

    Could you please tell me how

    arjanroxx said:

    I really need to explore master every month and that causes me to lose 180 units every months. It sucks and so do the rewards

    Why are you losing 180 units every month? I do every difficulty 100% without spending units on energy refills.
    Could you please tell me how?
    I use my energy? I do beginner to uncollected with time to spare typically. Ill do uncollected when my champs aren't locked into anything, autofight easier paths when they are. Can sit and watch a movie whilst autofighting basically everything. Make sure I have 0 energy before i go sleep, as soon as I wake up I make sure I move at least 1 space so my timer is going again.

    Its all about energy management. I have no idea how you're spending 180 units every month on exploring 1 EQ.. unless you're trying to rush EQ on the first day.. in which case that's your choice.
    Hey man, thanks a lot
  • Hector_1475Hector_1475 Posts: 837 ★★★
    @Kabam Miike , can we please get a definitive confirmation that the Monthly EQ Cavalier difficulty will NOT feature rarity gates? Just a wild thought I had...

    Thanks!
  • arjanroxxarjanroxx Posts: 9
    @Kabam Miike the hulkbuster buff should be out soon right?
  • arjanroxxarjanroxx Posts: 9
    arjanroxx said:

    arjanroxx said:

    Could you please tell me how

    arjanroxx said:

    I really need to explore master every month and that causes me to lose 180 units every months. It sucks and so do the rewards

    Why are you losing 180 units every month? I do every difficulty 100% without spending units on energy refills.
    Could you please tell me how?
    I use my energy? I do beginner to uncollected with time to spare typically. Ill do uncollected when my champs aren't locked into anything, autofight easier paths when they are. Can sit and watch a movie whilst autofighting basically everything. Make sure I have 0 energy before i go sleep, as soon as I wake up I make sure I move at least 1 space so my timer is going again.

    Its all about energy management. I have no idea how you're spending 180 units every month on exploring 1 EQ.. unless you're trying to rush EQ on the first day.. in which case that's your choice.
    Hey man, thanks a lot
    But sadly i dont have much time to do this
  • KallaiRKallaiR Posts: 20
    edited June 2020
    @Kabam Miike you have announced so many new side events AND u did mention that u care about the quality of life of the summoners.

    do you have any plans in reducing the energy cost of the side events, like u did some months ago with the easier modes of the side events?

    i dont see the reason uncollected now cost that much energy; neither heroic and master too. TOO MANY side events that are so time consuming to get them 100%, and with that new cavalier difficulty, will make u have to spend every single energy through the month to be able to get them 100%...
  • tkhan08tkhan08 Posts: 182 ★★
    Book 2 is scheduled for December. Act 6 tweaking will be done before it. If only attack is being reduced and The Champ fight has been toned down, with no major redesign or anything, then can it be done sooner?

    Many alliance mates stopped doing act 6 after it was announced act 6 is being reviewed. 5-6 months and excessive to adjust act 6. I am not a technical guy so i don't know much about dev work is required.
  • SeraphionSeraphion Posts: 1,173 ★★★★

    gsil6374 said:



    They gave a tentative for what they have. They can't give time frames for what they don't have yet. It's a detailed look into what they're working on. It isn't an itinerary.

    Dude, movies can get a timeframe when a script is just being written. Your going to tell me they can't give one from the development team here. I find that very hard to believe.
    I've worked in movies, and I can tell you that this is not how that works. Game Development is also a very different beast and you can't compare. We don't have timelines yet because we don't have a final list of what we want to do. Exploration of Data takes time, and then so does coming up with what changes we need to make to address those issues, and depending on the scale... we could be looking at weeks or months just to implement them.
    Will the act 6 changes come in 1 go or piece by piece?
    Bc if you would put in the attack reduction now then ppl could explore some chapters while you do the final work on pain points.

    I think that would be the best solution bc ppl would have something to do now :)
  • DoubleDeltaDoubleDelta Posts: 1,956 ★★★★

    Can you be a lil more specific on when the act 6 changes are going live? And will the ones get compensated who have beat the 6.2 champion boss a month or so ago?

    @Gogeta Both of these have been addressed. No date on going live - understandable considering the amount of work. Theyre going through every single fight and individually addressing each fights attack rating - not just a blanket 40% off everything. Theyre also looking into the node combos on each.

    Compensation wise, no details, likely to be after release so they can get data from newly completed vs previous attempts, considering how vast the changes are, they're likely to be large, so wont want to get them wrong.
    However, yes, you should get compensation.

    I read all that mate but I was hoping for a tentative date for the act 6 nerf given i am currently completing act 6.3 and an idea about the nerf will help me to make a decision whether to complete act 6 at the current difficulty level or pause for a while.
    @Gogeta91199 most likely November time - horde units, roster will only get better - if they announce they're going to do a big compensation give it a push
  • DoubleDeltaDoubleDelta Posts: 1,956 ★★★★

    Kabam in order to prove u really listen to the players' feedback, don't offer anything till all ur road map had all in effect especially july 4th as ur words are as worthly as ur top price RNG 0.1% only

    @UnstoppabIe you are aware, that parts of this road map will not be released until next year right? Considering 2 buffed champs per month over 150 champions.. why dont you go into work, and not get paid a wage until Kabam have finished their road map?
  • DoubleDeltaDoubleDelta Posts: 1,956 ★★★★
    Seraphion said:

    gsil6374 said:



    They gave a tentative for what they have. They can't give time frames for what they don't have yet. It's a detailed look into what they're working on. It isn't an itinerary.

    Dude, movies can get a timeframe when a script is just being written. Your going to tell me they can't give one from the development team here. I find that very hard to believe.
    I've worked in movies, and I can tell you that this is not how that works. Game Development is also a very different beast and you can't compare. We don't have timelines yet because we don't have a final list of what we want to do. Exploration of Data takes time, and then so does coming up with what changes we need to make to address those issues, and depending on the scale... we could be looking at weeks or months just to implement them.
    Will the act 6 changes come in 1 go or piece by piece?
    Bc if you would put in the attack reduction now then ppl could explore some chapters while you do the final work on pain points.

    I think that would be the best solution bc ppl would have something to do now :)
    @Seraphion its one go. If they roll out multiple versions it'll cause one massive mess. Nerf attack they need to compensate pre nerf, nerf champion, then they need to compensate pre nerf and pre champion nerf.. if they do any other bosses.

    Let them have their time to finish it, hopefully they'll do it right this time
  • 2jzftw2jzftw Posts: 2
    When will the act 6 nerf update take place? @Kabam Miike
  • PulyamanPulyaman Posts: 800 ★★★

    And for the record, I'm not mad nor do I expect any compensation from act 6 being changed. I don't personally think it was necessary (at least anywhere close to what is being done) but that's neither here nor there.

    Things like no retreat being removed from the champion fight, node removal from 6.2.2 sinister, strength in number pulled from 6.2.5 mordo, acid wash Mysterio changed, etc... being done I'm all in favor of personally. Reducing attack values by 60% and flat out neutering the champion fight, I'm not necessarily on board with. Just the attack values in themselves make finishing act 6 basically a cakewalk.

    I honestly hope it's a good move for the game long term even though I don't think it is currently. Nonetheless, if they are going to move away from story content being where we make major roster upgrades through too tier difficulty, I'm okay with that as long as future rewards are adjusted accordingly. I don't want them to start messing with act 6 rewards as that genie is out of the bottle but from this point forward, if story content is supposed to be easy mode for everyone the rewards should be adjusted accordingly.

    Then they have to decide what content is going to be the high tier payout stuff afterward. If they slap training wheels on story, people shouldn't complain if variant difficulty and rewards shoot up considerably.

    Ya, I am not on board with the attack value coming down that much. Training wheels indeed. I have only completed 6.2. So, I am both happy and a little frustrated by these changes.
  • Wozzy101Wozzy101 Posts: 572 ★★★

    If it’s units that are part of the rewards buff I think we all absolutely would still use them them irrespective of how far we’ve progressed.
  • ImranImran Posts: 537 ★★★
    When the act 6 changes???? Need to do it quickly.
  • Lvernon15Lvernon15 Posts: 10,422 ★★★★★
    Wozzy101 said:


    If it’s units that are part of the rewards buff I think we all absolutely would still use them them irrespective of how far we’ve progressed.

    They’ve said act 6 is separate to this
  • Wozzy101Wozzy101 Posts: 572 ★★★
    Lvernon15 said:

    Wozzy101 said:


    If it’s units that are part of the rewards buff I think we all absolutely would still use them them irrespective of how far we’ve progressed.

    They’ve said act 6 is separate to this
    Talking about changes to earlier acts. Act 1 was changed with a significant amount of additional units compared to when I cleared it. If they do the same with other acts I’m pointing that I disagree with the premise that just because you’re past the level, doesn’t mean the resources won’t help.
  • BerjibsBerjibs Posts: 947 ★★★
    I would imagine working out the compensation issue is the biggest barrier to going live with this.

    It’s not like act 2, people will have spent vastly different amounts of time and resources exploring and completing 6 and won’t have moved beyond that power level after a number of months like you quickly do in lower acts. What about people who are just cavalier, just fought the champion, etc etc those are still big milestones within act 6 themselves. I can see it’s pretty complicated to get right.


    Personally I’m in that boat, I stopped at champion to explore LOL and the variants, just seemed like more fun And also rewarding (variants) content to pursue.

    Part of me want to press on to the GM now just so I have that satisfaction of having done pre nerf act 6. Exploration is a definite no however...


    They do I think owe us some kind of guidance here about what us middle act 6 people should be doing...
    tkhan08 said:

    Book 2 is scheduled for December. Act 6 tweaking will be done before it. If only attack is being reduced and The Champ fight has been toned down, with no major redesign or anything, then can it be done sooner?

    Many alliance mates stopped doing act 6 after it was announced act 6 is being reviewed. 5-6 months and excessive to adjust act 6. I am not a technical guy so i don't know much about dev work is required.

  • BerjibsBerjibs Posts: 947 ★★★
    My other comment would be, why in the hell were they ditching variants!?

    Literally the best thing about this game right now.

    One every 3 months should be the minimum timeline imo.
  • Gmail12345Gmail12345 Posts: 172 ★★

    arjanroxx said:

    @Kabam Miike WTH this sucks for players who are stuck in 5.2 id there nothing for middle players. There is nothing for free to players. Please make some changes to mastr and 5.2

    What do you want done to uncollected and masters? You've got updated EQ - now cavaliers are getting their own EQ yours will likely get a little easier.

    There is nothing broken in Act 5.2/3/4. Look at DNA3000 scale. Act 6 was tailored towards 7/8* champions, that's how ridiculously overpowered the content was. All this, is so when you eventually get to act 6 it'll be much easier.

    They are bringing act 1-4 rewards up, so new players can join, and act 5 / 6 doesn't seem a year away. The rewards in there are massively outdated.

    And nothing for free to play? Look at the road map. You will see more rewards, more signature stones. What exactly do you want? 5/65 each month along with a free 5*?

    There bringing up act 2 rewards, they’ve not said about acts 3 or 4

    On March 12th, new rewards for Act 1 went live. With that, we announced that more would be on the way. We are on the verge of releasing the new and improved Act 2 rewards, but we haven’t revealed our plan, the reason behind it, and everyone’s favorite topic: the compensation.
    My mistake, thought 3-4 were mentioned too. Considering Act 1 was buffed sometime last year, 2 this year - I'd be expecting them to either do 3 start of next year with 4 towards the end. I honestly don't see them buffing Act 5 anytime soon. They may touch your EQ rewards slightly between now and then, and would love to see you guys finally get some units.
    There not being very clear again in there messages, they put the 3 month cutoff for comp for that and then for act 6 @Kabam Miike puts something different on here.
  • Lvernon15Lvernon15 Posts: 10,422 ★★★★★

    Knation said:

    @Kabam Miike can we please get confirmation act 6 compensation doesn’t have a time limit

    There is no information on Act 6 compensation yet, at all. But I can say that we are going to treat it differently than the one for Acts 1 and 2., There might have to be different tiers, or it may be something completely different. There is no information yet.
    This really doesn’t help anyone at all, do we carry on with act 6? If we do and you decide to only compensate people from before this information went live, then we’re screwed or do we sit here for the next 6-12 months waiting for act 6 changes to come into play?
    Your comment here is probably the single worst thing for anyone doing act 6 and for all of the people who don’t use the forums of wade through the hundreds of message they don’t even know and could be using the 3 month usual cutoff and be in trouble.
    This needs to be addressed ASAP
    If they don’t have information they can’t give information
  • Gmail12345Gmail12345 Posts: 172 ★★
    Seraphion said:

    gsil6374 said:



    They gave a tentative for what they have. They can't give time frames for what they don't have yet. It's a detailed look into what they're working on. It isn't an itinerary.

    Dude, movies can get a timeframe when a script is just being written. Your going to tell me they can't give one from the development team here. I find that very hard to believe.
    I've worked in movies, and I can tell you that this is not how that works. Game Development is also a very different beast and you can't compare. We don't have timelines yet because we don't have a final list of what we want to do. Exploration of Data takes time, and then so does coming up with what changes we need to make to address those issues, and depending on the scale... we could be looking at weeks or months just to implement them.
    Will the act 6 changes come in 1 go or piece by piece?
    Bc if you would put in the attack reduction now then ppl could explore some chapters while you do the final work on pain points.

    I think that would be the best solution bc ppl would have something to do now :)
    They hope to have some if not all The changes before they release book 2
  • Gmail12345Gmail12345 Posts: 172 ★★

    Seraphion said:

    gsil6374 said:



    They gave a tentative for what they have. They can't give time frames for what they don't have yet. It's a detailed look into what they're working on. It isn't an itinerary.

    Dude, movies can get a timeframe when a script is just being written. Your going to tell me they can't give one from the development team here. I find that very hard to believe.
    I've worked in movies, and I can tell you that this is not how that works. Game Development is also a very different beast and you can't compare. We don't have timelines yet because we don't have a final list of what we want to do. Exploration of Data takes time, and then so does coming up with what changes we need to make to address those issues, and depending on the scale... we could be looking at weeks or months just to implement them.
    Will the act 6 changes come in 1 go or piece by piece?
    Bc if you would put in the attack reduction now then ppl could explore some chapters while you do the final work on pain points.

    I think that would be the best solution bc ppl would have something to do now :)
    @Seraphion its one go. If they roll out multiple versions it'll cause one massive mess. Nerf attack they need to compensate pre nerf, nerf champion, then they need to compensate pre nerf and pre champion nerf.. if they do any other bosses.

    Let them have their time to finish it, hopefully they'll do it right this time
    They haven’t said that at all, you really need to read the message in full.

  • Gmail12345Gmail12345 Posts: 172 ★★
    Lvernon15 said:

    Knation said:

    @Kabam Miike can we please get confirmation act 6 compensation doesn’t have a time limit

    There is no information on Act 6 compensation yet, at all. But I can say that we are going to treat it differently than the one for Acts 1 and 2., There might have to be different tiers, or it may be something completely different. There is no information yet.
    This really doesn’t help anyone at all, do we carry on with act 6? If we do and you decide to only compensate people from before this information went live, then we’re screwed or do we sit here for the next 6-12 months waiting for act 6 changes to come into play?
    Your comment here is probably the single worst thing for anyone doing act 6 and for all of the people who don’t use the forums of wade through the hundreds of message they don’t even know and could be using the 3 month usual cutoff and be in trouble.
    This needs to be addressed ASAP
    If they don’t have information they can’t give information
    I understand that but as I’ve said lots and lots of people are in limbo and they can make a decision about how they are going to do the compensation as that doesn’t take any time at all. I’m not asking for how much just the rules ie 3 month cut off
  • DoubleDeltaDoubleDelta Posts: 1,956 ★★★★

    Seraphion said:

    gsil6374 said:



    They gave a tentative for what they have. They can't give time frames for what they don't have yet. It's a detailed look into what they're working on. It isn't an itinerary.

    Dude, movies can get a timeframe when a script is just being written. Your going to tell me they can't give one from the development team here. I find that very hard to believe.
    I've worked in movies, and I can tell you that this is not how that works. Game Development is also a very different beast and you can't compare. We don't have timelines yet because we don't have a final list of what we want to do. Exploration of Data takes time, and then so does coming up with what changes we need to make to address those issues, and depending on the scale... we could be looking at weeks or months just to implement them.
    Will the act 6 changes come in 1 go or piece by piece?
    Bc if you would put in the attack reduction now then ppl could explore some chapters while you do the final work on pain points.

    I think that would be the best solution bc ppl would have something to do now :)
    @Seraphion its one go. If they roll out multiple versions it'll cause one massive mess. Nerf attack they need to compensate pre nerf, nerf champion, then they need to compensate pre nerf and pre champion nerf.. if they do any other bosses.

    Let them have their time to finish it, hopefully they'll do it right this time
    They haven’t said that at all, you really need to read the message in full.

    Kabam Miike has.. you need to read the forums..
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