Variant 7 is way too easy

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  • TheTalentsTheTalents Posts: 1,905 ★★★★★
    If Kabam needs to bring the original act 7 out to stop all the crying about it being too easy at this point I won't complain. I will represent for the end game community and ask for it back because clearly this is what everyone wants. Just make sure the rewards match the effort.
  • IKONIKON Posts: 1,048 ★★★★★
    Seraphion said:

    Maybe I'm missing the point but isn't it nice that V7 was fun?

    Also this looks like it is a roaster test as well. I don't see a problem with it.

    Just would have loved some more stuff geared to 6* champs.

    The issue is that one persons fun is another persons boring.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 27,376 ★★★★★
    Seraphion said:

    Maybe I'm missing the point but isn't it nice that V7 was fun?

    Also this looks like it is a roaster test as well. I don't see a problem with it.

    Just would have loved some more stuff geared to 6* champs.

    Yes it's fun. One thing Google has taught me is that some people are into pain. XD
  • zeezee57zeezee57 Posts: 3,007 ★★★★★
    Ebony_Naw said:

    IKON said:

    Ebony_Naw said:

    Ebony_Naw said:

    Gmonkey said:

    Kabam's biggest mistake was letting people's roster outpace the content.

    I think they should make more content like V4, except harder. Much, much harder. Hell, make an absolute hell-mode 3*-only variant. It'd give a reality check to people who bust through these things with God-tier 6r3, or even 5r5s.

    If there's anything that rando-incursions have taught me, it's that most people suck at this game. It's incredibly weird handholding players with a trio of 6r3 gods, but it's less uncommon than you'd expect.

    Everyone complained when 7.1 beta was first launched vs the final product. It was brutal some paths had only one counter. That is why it is easy now, have you done 6.2.5 it was worse than that. Wish they had more fights like the final boss of 6.4.6. They did say they are planning something harder for endgame players.
    Miike said clearly in the past that variants are for endgame players. It clearly isn't that way difficulty wise, but they are supposedly the endgame target. How many times and with how much content can we say "no, not for you, wait your turn" and expect that portion of the playerbase to stay engaged in the game?

    Conversely, why should all content be geared toward the midgame player?
    It’s a tiny portion of the player base that feels this way. Anyway if it was harder, you’d be complaining that you spent all this time ranking up champs and now struggle with variant content.
    You are incorrect in how I'd feel, but not worth arguing that point. Also, I don't consider myself to be in the endgame group, so I think the problem with this content is that it is tailored for me to steamroll instead of giving me a target to move my account toward.

    Lastly, then what content SHOULD endgame players get? It was supposed to be variants- a point in my post you chose to ignore. So if not variants and not story, then what? The season of pain that is coming "soon"? That's neither fair nor realistic. Why can't there be different content for everybody and we just accept when content is not designed for us?
    Variants are not for end game players in 2021. Maybe two years ago they were. Obviously the top end of the player base has evolved their rosters to a point where what was hard in 2019 is not hard now. But there are still tons more people behind you skill/roster-wise who find the variants hard, so why punish them?

    IMO Kabam is under no obligation to provide you with what you seek, when IMO you represent a tiny fraction of the player base who has the roster/skills to clear all content.

    I'm old enough to remember when I was a round 1 Act 7.1 beta tester, and the community freaked out about how hard it was, so Kabam reworked their entire game node dynamic to put nodes that can help you as well as ones that bite you. And now, from my reading of the forums and from my own opinion, players think Act 7 is pretty fun. Still challenging to explore.

    I don't find V7 easy, but also not ridiculously hard. You obv feel different. If you want challenge, then use four stars instead of your stacked roster.

    Also, Kabam is not responsible for keeping you entertained 24 hours a day. If there isn't any content for you right now, then do some chores, play with your dog, take a walk in nature, do your homework. MCOC is a game, not a lifestyle.
    Kabam is under no obligation to release content for anyone. What we have here is a subset of customers explaining that their wants are not currently being met. It's up to them what they do with that information.

    I will never understand the vitriol to players saying there isn't any content to keep them engaged.
    Same honestly. And I find it funny, because I want content that I CANNOT do now. I want to have content to build my roster towards. Otherwise, I will lose interest in the game. The more you are entertained now, the more I will be entertained in the next months or year
    Exactly, act 6 is the only content you really have to work on. I don't count Abyss and LOL because they're something you can't do casually like you can anything else where you can knock a path in a half hour when you want to. Hopefully 7.2 is more akin to act 6, never thought I'd hear myself say that.
  • KnightZeroKnightZero Posts: 974 ★★★★

    If Kabam needs to bring the original act 7 out to stop all the crying about it being too easy at this point I won't complain. I will represent for the end game community and ask for it back because clearly this is what everyone wants. Just make sure the rewards match the effort.

    You’re confusing hard with fun.

    High attack =/= fun

    Niche content that needs quake and ghost =/= fun

    Challenging content that makes you think, strategise and doesn’t punish you too much without rewarding = fun
    What exactly would you classify that as? There are lanes in Act 6 that follow what you say. But there are lanes that are niche as well.
    And when Act 6 got reduced attack values, most of the endgame players started complaining that it's too easy. Don't understand what exactly is challenging content. V7 isn't challenging as such I agree, but what is? Some say Act 6 pre nerf. But that was just boring in terms of attack values. But those same people count reduced attack values as easy.
  • LlessurLlessur Posts: 205
    chapter one was easy I just went double archangel but chapter two is hard because I have no bleed counters that are high enough level no high techs besides a g99 and that havok is just dumb because I need armor ups to counter but that armor up gives him too much power gain. not complaining but there is still a cap. I am cavalier for reference
  • TheTalentsTheTalents Posts: 1,905 ★★★★★

    If Kabam needs to bring the original act 7 out to stop all the crying about it being too easy at this point I won't complain. I will represent for the end game community and ask for it back because clearly this is what everyone wants. Just make sure the rewards match the effort.

    You’re confusing hard with fun.

    High attack =/= fun

    Niche content that needs quake and ghost =/= fun

    Challenging content that makes you think, strategise and doesn’t punish you too much without rewarding = fun
    So give an example. I play the game just as much as you do and I don't understand what you want Kabam to do. Make it make sense because when you just say too easy to me that translates to I want the original act 7.
  • KnightZeroKnightZero Posts: 974 ★★★★

    If Kabam needs to bring the original act 7 out to stop all the crying about it being too easy at this point I won't complain. I will represent for the end game community and ask for it back because clearly this is what everyone wants. Just make sure the rewards match the effort.

    You’re confusing hard with fun.

    High attack =/= fun

    Niche content that needs quake and ghost =/= fun

    Challenging content that makes you think, strategise and doesn’t punish you too much without rewarding = fun
    What exactly would you classify that as? There are lanes in Act 6 that follow what you say. But there are lanes that are niche as well.
    And when Act 6 got reduced attack values, most of the endgame players started complaining that it's too easy. Don't understand what exactly is challenging content. V7 isn't challenging as such I agree, but what is? Some say Act 6 pre nerf. But that was just boring in terms of attack values. But those same people count reduced attack values as easy.
    I fully admit different people find different things fun, for me, I enjoyed the vast majority of act 6. I get why others didn’t, and fully accept that.

    act 6 really challenged me as a player, how to intercept, how to improve my skills.

    As a general rule, I didn’t like niche fights that were like ah well I’m gonna have to ghost this. I didn’t know how to quake when I 100%ed act 6 and in a way I’m glad, as I know I would have used her a hell of a lot.

    I think the reduction in attack values was a good idea, but I don’t think many of the fights needed changing personally. The nodes were largely challenging, the biggest problem was you could play perfectly and block damage killed you. Parrying too much killed you etc
    I understand. But that's where the disparity comes. You agreed with change in attack values. Others felt that the same nodes for 90% of the fights but reduced attack values made Act 6 'too easy' and not worthy for 6*. So what is?
    Everyone will always have a different view. People say that nodes are what makes it challenging. But they complain if attack values are reduced. It's just a never ending cycle.
  • PseudouberPseudouber Posts: 539 ★★★
    Let me guess. I bet everyone saying that it's too easy have invested hundreds or thousands into their account and have completed Act 7 as well. Have a robust Roster with a bunch of maxed out 5* and R2 or R3 6*s. Or if FTP have been playing for like 4 or 5 years to get here. Do you want content that never gets played unless you have been playing the game for like 4 years lol. I do think they should make an Abyssal difficulty for these though for everyone who wants it harder and want to spend units on content with better rewards.
  • Wicket329Wicket329 Posts: 531 ★★★
    edited April 16

    If Kabam needs to bring the original act 7 out to stop all the crying about it being too easy at this point I won't complain. I will represent for the end game community and ask for it back because clearly this is what everyone wants. Just make sure the rewards match the effort.

    You’re confusing hard with fun.

    High attack =/= fun

    Niche content that needs quake and ghost =/= fun

    Challenging content that makes you think, strategise and doesn’t punish you too much without rewarding = fun
    So give an example. I play the game just as much as you do and I don't understand what you want Kabam to do. Make it make sense because when you just say too easy to me that translates to I want the original act 7.
    Please read the thread you are commenting on. I know that I personally have written out several examples of content that I found challenging and enjoyable. I believe @BitterSteel has as well. I will, yet again, provide a brief overview of some of the content I have mentioned earlier on this thread and elsewhere:

    Abyss Darkhawk, Bishop, Korg, and Karnak. These fights either taught me something new, or tested a skill like intercepts, timing, slow-rolling combos, etc.

    Grandmaster, the whole fight but specifically the final enrage phase which encouraged multiple rapid intercepts.

    John Mulaney Challenge. Not perfect, but still enjoyed it quite a bit and would be happy to see more of it.

    Big Head Mode: this is just fun and I want more of it, thank you.
  • TheManMythLegendTheManMythLegend Posts: 4,283 ★★★★★
    As a end game player yes i find it very easy. But i always enjoy variant. Every content cant be made for everyone as each of us have different rosters and progression levels.

    I think the rewards are good for a short time of fun nodes and getting to use different champs each variant thats released but ofc id be happy if they could finally put some t2a in there aswell
  • BerjibsBerjibs Posts: 1,254 ★★★★
    For me this variant isn’t even fun. It boring. The fun stopped for me at v4 and I’m nowhere near “endgame” or a whale, just an ex map 5 player with a very average roster.

    What boss from the last 3 variants was in the least bit challenging, memorable or fun? They make cav eq bosses look like abyss collector.
  • TheTalentsTheTalents Posts: 1,905 ★★★★★
    Wicket329 said:

    If Kabam needs to bring the original act 7 out to stop all the crying about it being too easy at this point I won't complain. I will represent for the end game community and ask for it back because clearly this is what everyone wants. Just make sure the rewards match the effort.

    You’re confusing hard with fun.

    High attack =/= fun

    Niche content that needs quake and ghost =/= fun

    Challenging content that makes you think, strategise and doesn’t punish you too much without rewarding = fun
    So give an example. I play the game just as much as you do and I don't understand what you want Kabam to do. Make it make sense because when you just say too easy to me that translates to I want the original act 7.
    Please read the thread you are commenting on. I know that I personally have written out several examples of content that I found challenging and enjoyable. I believe @BitterSteel has as well. I will, yet again, provide a brief overview of some of the content I have mentioned earlier on this thread and elsewhere:

    Abyss Darkhawk, Bishop, Korg, and Karnak. These fights either taught me something new, or tested a skill like intercepts, timing, slow-rolling combos, etc.

    Grandmaster, the whole fight but specifically the final enrage phase which encouraged multiple rapid intercepts.

    John Mulaney Challenge. Not perfect, but still enjoyed it quite a bit and would be happy to see more of it.

    Big Head Mode: this is just fun and I want more of it, thank you.
    I missed your earlier post. I just don't like people throwing things out there without solutions, after reading your examples we definitely agree. You're literally into complicated fights from what I'm gathering. So new node interactions that makes you adjust your style of play? Okay we agree on this as well. I didn't enjoy the darkhawk abyss fight though but it did help me approve my skill and attention to detail for sure so I can appreciate that as well.
  • BerjibsBerjibs Posts: 1,254 ★★★★
    To be constructive I’m missing fights I want to do again. Fights I would repeatedly run with zero rewards just because they are challenging or fun. Not asking for beyond old act 6 punishment just something technically engaging, a bit of node timer spinning plates, an exercise in intercepts or counter attack timing and spacing, a problem to solve where the solution is not literally spelled out for you and neatly gift wrapped within the global Boost.

    Stuff like:

    Champion
    Grandmaster
    Hydra Adaptoid
    Bane xbones
    Abyss cyclops
    Cav eq Jane foster
    Nameless thanos
    Show up surfer
    Cav eq void
    Variant 2 venom
    Variant 4 electro


    For me there’s been nothing exciting in variants lately just cheese upon cheese all nicely laid out on a plate with full instructions and bosses that are more vanilla than the path fights.

  • TheTalentsTheTalents Posts: 1,905 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    If Kabam needs to bring the original act 7 out to stop all the crying about it being too easy at this point I won't complain. I will represent for the end game community and ask for it back because clearly this is what everyone wants. Just make sure the rewards match the effort.

    Some people were saying the original Act 71 beta was too easy in the beta. I don't think even that would do it. To be frank, if I didn't originally perceive the first 7.1 beta as oppressively difficult, the very top tier players aren't going to either.

    There's two versions of the "too easy" complaint. The first one is "I'm a mobile gaming god and I can do everything playing with my feet." And some of them might even be telling the truth. But they have to understand the game devs have to balance the game for mortals. It can no more target any significant amount of content at that level of skill than they can adjust the amount of ability description text to my reading speed.

    The other one is a different kind of complaint that is more understandable. Many players need aspirational content. They need both content that is so hard they cannot even do it, so they can work up to it (of course, they generally need it to be *just* out of reach so they can reach it on reasonable time scales) and they also generally need commensurate rewards to make the chase worthwhile.

    This kind of content is actually not unreasonable to make on its own. Making content only a tiny percentage of players will ever be able to play is impractical: dev time is not unlimited. But making aspirational content is more justifiable, because even though only a tiny percentage of players could do it today (that number might even be zero) eventually over time a larger and larger percentage of players will be able to do it. Whether they actually do it or not is a separate question, but at least all that dev time isn't going into something almost no one will play.

    The problem here is the rewards. For rewards to look reasonable to most players, it has to be, if not proportional to, then at least scale in some way with the difficulty. And the game balance problem for developers is that the rewards have to be high enough to entice the top tier players gunning for it today, but those same rewards have to be reasonable in a year or two when much less strong players will eventually reach it and attempt it. In theory someone might think that the same rewards should work fine for both groups, but in practice that's not true. Sometimes those rewards are way too high, sometimes they are anemically way too low, depending on how long it takes before a certain kind of player feels comfortable tackling that content.

    There's also the separate issue of any rewards you try to give the first wave of people tackling that content become very problematic for the devs trying to manage when the progress ladder extends upward. cf: Abyss rewards.

    While the first type of complaint probably has no solution, the second one I think can theoretically be addressed to a point. I can think of two ways to tackle that one, although whether the playerbase will accept them is a separate question. The first solution is to introduce very high difficulty content like the Abyss, say, but layer time limited objective rewards on top of it. So the intrinsic rewards for the content are balanced for the long term, but for players strong enough to tackle it when it launches, which means they cannot readily adjust to or try to "outlevel" it, there are bonus rewards for pushing to complete it immediately. This allows you to balance rewards for the initial case where the content is explicitly tuned to the strongest players that exist at the time it is launched, and the downstream case where players are, or at least can be much stronger than that (and thus the difficulty will be lower).

    The second possibility is what I originally suggested for Act 6. Although I made the case very strongly that Act 6 (and Act 7 beta) difficulty was completely broken compared to the game's progress curve, I did not suggest nerfing it. Since the devs already went through the trouble of making that content, it seemed counter-productive to spend time basically removing higher difficulty content from the game. Rather, I suggested layering into Act 6 an "easy mode" completion option to prevent it from being a roadblock to player progress. If it is not a roadblock to progress, its difficulty can be almost anything because players now have an opportunity to do it whenever they want to. It becomes more optional. The mechanism I suggested was to use boosts explicitly crafted to lower the difficulty in that content in specific ways, such that if you use them the game detects this and disqualifies you from the higher tier rewards, but that's just a technical detail. There's lots of mechanisms that would ultimately do the same thing.

    Instead of having to make easy content and hard content, which is time consuming and limits how much the devs can make of either, you just make hard content and then you pseudo-nerf it with player options, which is much easier and quicker. This allows the devs to spend more time on hard content than would otherwise be practical. It doesn't completely solve the problem of balancing the rewards, but it offers a partial solution to eliminating the problem of one-size-fits-all rewards.
    I'm okay with your suggestions as well. I'm in camp #2 by the way. I'm an aspirational content kind of guy. I never intended to finish abyss until I had a r4 Aegon but things got so slow I stacked up to 20k units so I finished Abyss because it was convenient. I'm a much better player since I learned quake and turned my alliance into a top 30 Alliance but I'm just saying that Kabam realistically could crank out the original act 7 pretty easily. We got all of act 6 in practically a year and they all released within 3-4 months for each chapter. Making that style of content available with better rewards is probably the easier solution but I think yours sounds better.

    @Wicket329 had the best suggestion but the type of content he wants takes a lot of thought and I don't think the devs can make it at the level of consistency that we would want.
  • BlackTuranBlackTuran Posts: 520 ★★★
    edited April 16

    Let me guess. I bet everyone saying that it's too easy have invested hundreds or thousands into their account and have completed Act 7 as well. Have a robust Roster with a bunch of maxed out 5* and R2 or R3 6*s. Or if FTP have been playing for like 4 or 5 years to get here. Do you want content that never gets played unless you have been playing the game for like 4 years lol. I do think they should make an Abyssal difficulty for these though for everyone who wants it harder and want to spend units on content with better rewards.

    I've been playing since March of 2020, I have explored 7.1 and 6.1, more than halfway done with exploring 6.3. When I finish a path in 6.1 or 6.3, I feel a sense of accomplishment because it took a few tries, strategizing, team building, etc. When I explored 7.1, I felt no such thing, as it was just mindlessly going through easy paths, even though I had less than 10 r5's at the time. Oh, also, I haven't spent money on this game other than the 10$ offers from the black friday deals which didn't land me anything account changing
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 12,376 Guardian

    Kabam realistically could crank out the original act 7 pretty easily.

    Developers hate wasting dev time. Maybe in a year or two we could ask for OG 7.1 to be released as variant content.
  • LeNoirFaineantLeNoirFaineant Posts: 6,909 ★★★★★
    Haji_Saab said:

    As someone who went through all variants on a mini account with limited roster recently, i can safely say variants are just getting easier. There are no two ways about it.

    You just start with the latest and progress all the way to v1. That’s how difficulty is. Nothing to do with roster progression.

    That's interesting. I've thought they were getting progressively easier but thought it might just be roster progression. I wonder how many of the people who disagreed with you have actually tried this. I'm guessing the number is zero lol. They ought to be getting progressively harder to keep up with roster progression.
  • LeNoirFaineantLeNoirFaineant Posts: 6,909 ★★★★★
    Remember when mid tier players used to complain every time a new variant came out? They stopped doing that a few variants ago. We need to make variants great again lol
  • LeNoirFaineantLeNoirFaineant Posts: 6,909 ★★★★★
    edited April 16

    Let me guess. I bet everyone saying that it's too easy have invested hundreds or thousands into their account and have completed Act 7 as well. Have a robust Roster with a bunch of maxed out 5* and R2 or R3 6*s. Or if FTP have been playing for like 4 or 5 years to get here. Do you want content that never gets played unless you have been playing the game for like 4 years lol. I do think they should make an Abyssal difficulty for these though for everyone who wants it harder and want to spend units on content with better rewards.

    Lots of FTP end game players out there, and roster progression is faster than it's ever been. Also, shouldn't there be content that takes a long time before you can complete it? Without that, what's the point of staying in the game?
  • Wicket329Wicket329 Posts: 531 ★★★

    DNA3000 said:

    If Kabam needs to bring the original act 7 out to stop all the crying about it being too easy at this point I won't complain. I will represent for the end game community and ask for it back because clearly this is what everyone wants. Just make sure the rewards match the effort.

    Some people were saying the original Act 71 beta was too easy in the beta. I don't think even that would do it. To be frank, if I didn't originally perceive the first 7.1 beta as oppressively difficult, the very top tier players aren't going to either.

    There's two versions of the "too easy" complaint. The first one is "I'm a mobile gaming god and I can do everything playing with my feet." And some of them might even be telling the truth. But they have to understand the game devs have to balance the game for mortals. It can no more target any significant amount of content at that level of skill than they can adjust the amount of ability description text to my reading speed.

    The other one is a different kind of complaint that is more understandable. Many players need aspirational content. They need both content that is so hard they cannot even do it, so they can work up to it (of course, they generally need it to be *just* out of reach so they can reach it on reasonable time scales) and they also generally need commensurate rewards to make the chase worthwhile.

    This kind of content is actually not unreasonable to make on its own. Making content only a tiny percentage of players will ever be able to play is impractical: dev time is not unlimited. But making aspirational content is more justifiable, because even though only a tiny percentage of players could do it today (that number might even be zero) eventually over time a larger and larger percentage of players will be able to do it. Whether they actually do it or not is a separate question, but at least all that dev time isn't going into something almost no one will play.

    The problem here is the rewards. For rewards to look reasonable to most players, it has to be, if not proportional to, then at least scale in some way with the difficulty. And the game balance problem for developers is that the rewards have to be high enough to entice the top tier players gunning for it today, but those same rewards have to be reasonable in a year or two when much less strong players will eventually reach it and attempt it. In theory someone might think that the same rewards should work fine for both groups, but in practice that's not true. Sometimes those rewards are way too high, sometimes they are anemically way too low, depending on how long it takes before a certain kind of player feels comfortable tackling that content.

    There's also the separate issue of any rewards you try to give the first wave of people tackling that content become very problematic for the devs trying to manage when the progress ladder extends upward. cf: Abyss rewards.

    While the first type of complaint probably has no solution, the second one I think can theoretically be addressed to a point. I can think of two ways to tackle that one, although whether the playerbase will accept them is a separate question. The first solution is to introduce very high difficulty content like the Abyss, say, but layer time limited objective rewards on top of it. So the intrinsic rewards for the content are balanced for the long term, but for players strong enough to tackle it when it launches, which means they cannot readily adjust to or try to "outlevel" it, there are bonus rewards for pushing to complete it immediately. This allows you to balance rewards for the initial case where the content is explicitly tuned to the strongest players that exist at the time it is launched, and the downstream case where players are, or at least can be much stronger than that (and thus the difficulty will be lower).

    The second possibility is what I originally suggested for Act 6. Although I made the case very strongly that Act 6 (and Act 7 beta) difficulty was completely broken compared to the game's progress curve, I did not suggest nerfing it. Since the devs already went through the trouble of making that content, it seemed counter-productive to spend time basically removing higher difficulty content from the game. Rather, I suggested layering into Act 6 an "easy mode" completion option to prevent it from being a roadblock to player progress. If it is not a roadblock to progress, its difficulty can be almost anything because players now have an opportunity to do it whenever they want to. It becomes more optional. The mechanism I suggested was to use boosts explicitly crafted to lower the difficulty in that content in specific ways, such that if you use them the game detects this and disqualifies you from the higher tier rewards, but that's just a technical detail. There's lots of mechanisms that would ultimately do the same thing.

    Instead of having to make easy content and hard content, which is time consuming and limits how much the devs can make of either, you just make hard content and then you pseudo-nerf it with player options, which is much easier and quicker. This allows the devs to spend more time on hard content than would otherwise be practical. It doesn't completely solve the problem of balancing the rewards, but it offers a partial solution to eliminating the problem of one-size-fits-all rewards.
    I'm okay with your suggestions as well. I'm in camp #2 by the way. I'm an aspirational content kind of guy. I never intended to finish abyss until I had a r4 Aegon but things got so slow I stacked up to 20k units so I finished Abyss because it was convenient. I'm a much better player since I learned quake and turned my alliance into a top 30 Alliance but I'm just saying that Kabam realistically could crank out the original act 7 pretty easily. We got all of act 6 in practically a year and they all released within 3-4 months for each chapter. Making that style of content available with better rewards is probably the easier solution but I think yours sounds better.

    @Wicket329 had the best suggestion but the type of content he wants takes a lot of thought and I don't think the devs can make it at the level of consistency that we would want.
    Something I’ve tossed around on a few forum posts over the last couple weeks is taking the Summer of Pain idea and making it into a kind of Seasonal EQ. It would run for three months, and it would be pinnacle content. Don’t know how many quests Kabam would want to make it, but whatever floats their boat to justify giving players three months with it. The final quest would be like the Infinity War quests where it’s just one big bad boss waiting for you.

    Now I already hear what you’re saying, that’s a lot of dev time and resources, and you’re right. Developing four of these big boys per year would be a Herculean effort for sure. Which is why I suggest that they repeat. Spring EQ will always be Spring EQ. If you weren’t able to beat it the first time it came through, that’s okay! It’ll be back next year and you’ll be in a far better place to tackle it. Minor tweaks can be made year to year if it’s starting to feel dry or there were particular aspects of it that just didn’t meet design intent, but the goal would be that once it is set, then there’s no need to invest further dev resources into it and now we’ve got a self-refreshing piece of pinnacle content.

    Rewards could be done either through the standard Completion/Exploration paradigm or Kabam could use path rewards to further target player difficulty. You want big rewards? Take the hard path. You’re just trying to play through to see the boss? Okay, here’s an easier path with some 5* shards on it. There’s a lot of potential here, in my opinion. If Kabam wanted to get *unnecessarily fancy* with it, there could even be a Seasonal EQ Currency that drops on paths. But that’s probably excessive and over complicated.

    Anyway, those are my ideas for creating content that (hopefully) addresses the valid concerns of @DNA3000 and @TheTalents , if y’all have any critiques or other ideas, I’d love to hear them.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 12,376 Guardian
    Wicket329 said:

    Now I already hear what you’re saying, that’s a lot of dev time and resources, and you’re right. Developing four of these big boys per year would be a Herculean effort for sure. Which is why I suggest that they repeat. Spring EQ will always be Spring EQ. If you weren’t able to beat it the first time it came through, that’s okay! It’ll be back next year and you’ll be in a far better place to tackle it. Minor tweaks can be made year to year if it’s starting to feel dry or there were particular aspects of it that just didn’t meet design intent, but the goal would be that once it is set, then there’s no need to invest further dev resources into it and now we’ve got a self-refreshing piece of pinnacle content.

    It is a step in the right direction, but it also kicks the can down the street without directly addressing the problem. The problem is that the top tier players have an almost unlimited capacity to get stronger. What is currently holding them back is a lack of content to get stronger for. For Season of Pain to be useful as aspirational content it has to be something that is at least approachable, so there's a path to eventually beating it. And if there's a path, the top tier players will quickly find it. I wouldn't make the same mistake the devs have consistently made in underestimating them.

    But then you have the same problem again, only at higher magnitude. What do you do with the Season of Pain series when 99% of the players can't even begin to scratch the surface of it, but the top tier players are bored repeating it (or can't repeat it because the rewards are not repeatable)? You could just keep tweaking it higher but keep the lower difficulties as difficulty tiers, but then you have the problem of difficulty tiers proliferating and causing problems. And the separate problem of how you manage the situation of one player doing multiple difficulty tiers and overstacking the rewards.

    Some people think more difficulty tiers is always better, because the more you have to more likely it is some difficulty tier more closely matches any particular player. But there's a counter-problem. If you want difficulty tiers to act as aspirational goals to achieve, they can't be too many of them too close together. Because then each jump upward offers very little benefit by itself. If the jump between tier 3 and tier 4 is big, there's an incentive to make the jump. But if you're deciding whether to move up from tier 187 to 188 out of 300, the incentive dilutes for a large percentage of players. We already see this now where many players do not attempt to fully explore all the content: they complete it and then move on because the incremental benefit of exploration compared to completion is lower. In absolute terms all exploration rewards (generally) are better than completion so you wouldn't think this would be a problem, but given the higher amount of effort required combined with the fact that exploration rewards *look* like only a small incremental jump from completion causes their value to depreciate. Having too many difficulty tiers can have the same effect.
  • SpicyslicerSpicyslicer Posts: 1,956 ★★★★
    I like variant 7, thanks kabam.
  • BigPoppaCBONEBigPoppaCBONE Posts: 1,428 ★★★★
    edited April 16
    DNA3000 said:

    Kabam realistically could crank out the original act 7 pretty easily.

    Developers hate wasting dev time. Maybe in a year or two we could ask for OG 7.1 to be released as variant content.
    I think they could copy the Incursions model but populate it with the greatest hits fights. That's two-thirds of the heavy lifting done already. It could start out on an easy zone with a light ramp up and end with the insanity zone that starts steep and has a brutal node difficulty ramp up where for the masochists there's more clockwatching than a herd of Novas #JusticeForNova #EarlyJuneForTheRealNovaBuff? and you need to figure out the patterns. Kabam, you guys can use that as long as you stop the Andy Kaufman performance art gag and release the real Nova buff.
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