Agreed, these rewards are easily better then act 6 exploration which is id say quite a bit harder. Agreed that the rewards to difficulty ratio is questionable
Do not compare summer of pain to abyss. Summer of pain is much easier than abyss. Maybe you can compare it to labyrinth
I never did. I said tb was originally only obtainable through incredibly hard content such as Act 6 exploration or Abyss, and SoP is making it incredibly easy to get the r3 needed
TB is CAV all over again. Nerfed 6.1 into a clown fest where anyone can grab CAV.
I did cav pre nerf, it was never difficult.
Point being they made CAV much easier when the difficulty was fine as it were. They made getting TB significantly more easier now with SOP.
But why does that bother you? Isn't it better when those behind catch up and the gap between players is smaller? I don't mind if cavaliers become TB tiny bit easier, they still have to complete Act 6 anyway. All the items, catalyst, daily crystals and what have you depreciate in value over time. If you achieved TB 6 months ago, you will be way ahead of those who just gonna get the title anyway. So why care?
Most players who became TB had to earn the title. SOP takes away from that feat. I’m grabbing the easiest 2 t5cc selectors for fights i dont find a challenge. Just doesn’t make sense to me. Had to explore v5, complete 6.4, 7.1, 7.2, explore CAV EQ, and grab the t5cc frags from the odin event to form 1 t5cc. Now all i have to do to grab 2 of my choice is beat UC level content? Seems odd to me. Mysterio was a pretty good challenge, same with rogue, but i found the rest pretty easy (excluding this week, haven’t done it yet).
TB is CAV all over again. Nerfed 6.1 into a clown fest where anyone can grab CAV.
Cavalier and Thronebreaker are progressional titles. By definition, they have to be things most players can eventually achieve. They aren't elite titles meant for only the absolute top players. Such things only exist outside of the progression path of the game.
There's never going to be a progression title that only elite players can achieve. If the only players who could qualify for it were the tiny wedge of players at the very top, there would not be enough players to justify the work to create that progression title.
All games have to have an end goal that’s tough to achieve. Especially in a game like this with hundreds of hours of content, I would never expect everyone to have the final title. It’s much more likely for it to be available to only a tiny group at the top being so difficult to achieve.
All finite games have to have an end goal that is tough to achieve. But most progressional games as a service do not. No PvE-focused one ever does. Games that transition from PvE progress to PvP end game can have a final top tier progressional title, because the game eventually abandons PvE progress altogether and does something completely different. But all games that remain PvE-progressional keep extending the progress ladder upward. The only time there's a final last progressional tier is when the game shuts down or goes into permanent maintenance mode and the devs stop making progressional tiers.
That’s actually an odd way of thinking of it because progressional games almost always have a small group in the final area, whereas finite games always have nearly everyone in the endgame.
That's completely orthogonal. The number of players in whatever happens to be the highest progressional tier tends to be relatively small at the time that tier opens but the specific reason for making new progressional tiers is when the number of players in that tier becomes large enough to support a bifurcation.
I don't think you mean the same thing I mean when I talk about "finite games." Everyone isn't in the end game in a finite game. Everyone *leaves* when they reach the end of a finite game, because at that point the game is over. If you want players to stick around, there has to be something to do. If they are not progressing upwards, because there's no more progress, they have to be doing something else productive. The most common thing people do in games where progress stops is shift to PvP, where competition replaces content-driven progress. That is not a finite game. That is a game that replaces content-driven progress with competition ladders.
If you have a game that has a fixed finite number of progressional tiers, and you declare the top one to be the "elite tier" that you don't expect most players to ever achieve, then for the vast majority of your players this tier doesn't really exist. The game becomes a game with N-1 progressional tiers. And if the end game only exists at the top tier, then everyone else runs out of things to do eventually and quits. The alternative is to make two different end games, one for the elite players and a separate one for everyone else. That's possible, but in my opinion unless you're dealing with a dev team full of creative savants, it is also completely dumb.
I can say one thing with absolute certainty: this game is not that kind of game. The progressional tiers that the progress titles demarcate are all true progressional tiers. They are intended for the playerbase to progress through. None of them are, or ever were intended to be "elite titles" that represented the final goal of the game. If you think this game is supposed to have such a thing, I'm afraid you're never going to see such a thing in the game. Except maybe when the game finally dies.
Do not compare summer of pain to abyss. Summer of pain is much easier than abyss. Maybe you can compare it to labyrinth
As a Cavalier .. who has completed: Realm of Legends, 1 or 2 Variants .. but hasn't completed labyrinth (I have done a few test runs ... ) ...
no, you can't even compare SoP to Labyrinth .. *maybe* compare it to Realm of Legends ...
I was not expecting to be able to handle many fights in SoP .. and so far, the only fight I skipped was Mysterio ... I've solo'd the rest .. which is fightfully surprising!! O.o
Even I'll say, it shouldn't be this easy .. LOL
(but same time, I'll take it! That 25% t5cc selector is .. sweeeet )
Honestly just shut the hell up and play who cares if the end content is easier for the newer players! Just focus on yourself and if u think the rewards are too much don’t play it…
TB is CAV all over again. Nerfed 6.1 into a clown fest where anyone can grab CAV.
Lol 6.1 was barely touched. Cav was never hard aside from having 2-3 counters.
They did change Crossbones, but I'm not even sure I would call that a nerf. It felt to me like a sideways change: made it easier for some players, harder for others.
The big change to 6.1 happened in the 6.1 beta, actually. I can only imagine what the complaints would have been had it released in its original form. No Retreat originally kicked in immediately, without the double dash back mechanics. That was all sorts of fun.
People with 20+ r3 champs and over 100 6*s upset cause someone can get one R3 faster.
This is what I'm noticing too ... complaining because they spent a lot of units/time/resources/whatever to rush through the content, and clear it all (which is fine .. nothing wrong with that ..) when (finally) some of us patient enough to just take our time .. progress via a different path .. . LOL
People with 20+ r3 champs and over 100 6*s upset cause someone can get one R3 faster.
Yeah, I’m Cav with 0 r3s and 31 6*s, thanks
Well then I am confused. What is issue? I did the cosmic objective today with an r4 5* undupe Hyperion in 4 revives. The event to this point is a layup that requires minimal items to rewards ratio vs others. It’s not particularly hard just delayed in rewards delivery
THAT’S WHAT I’M COMPLAINING ABOUT.
It’s way, way too easy for the incredible amount of rewards we get.
Honestly just shut the hell up and play who cares if the end content is easier for the newer players! Just focus on yourself and if u think the rewards are too much don’t play it…
Or maybe, just maybe, people can see beyond their own accounts and realise that something may be happening that could have negative consequences for the game as a whole, and for the future of the game they love.
Well! Now Kabam has started to release rank 4 6* materials and we have travelled half of Journey of act 7,it's a matter of time when Thronebreaker would be common like Cavaliers. I am actually fine with it.It was already going to happen and will continue when we will reach closer to new progression title.
TB is CAV all over again. Nerfed 6.1 into a clown fest where anyone can grab CAV.
Cavalier and Thronebreaker are progressional titles. By definition, they have to be things most players can eventually achieve. They aren't elite titles meant for only the absolute top players. Such things only exist outside of the progression path of the game.
There's never going to be a progression title that only elite players can achieve. If the only players who could qualify for it were the tiny wedge of players at the very top, there would not be enough players to justify the work to create that progression title.
All games have to have an end goal that’s tough to achieve. Especially in a game like this with hundreds of hours of content, I would never expect everyone to have the final title. It’s much more likely for it to be available to only a tiny group at the top being so difficult to achieve.
All finite games have to have an end goal that is tough to achieve. But most progressional games as a service do not. No PvE-focused one ever does. Games that transition from PvE progress to PvP end game can have a final top tier progressional title, because the game eventually abandons PvE progress altogether and does something completely different. But all games that remain PvE-progressional keep extending the progress ladder upward. The only time there's a final last progressional tier is when the game shuts down or goes into permanent maintenance mode and the devs stop making progressional tiers.
That’s actually an odd way of thinking of it because progressional games almost always have a small group in the final area, whereas finite games always have nearly everyone in the endgame.
That's completely orthogonal. The number of players in whatever happens to be the highest progressional tier tends to be relatively small at the time that tier opens but the specific reason for making new progressional tiers is when the number of players in that tier becomes large enough to support a bifurcation.
I don't think you mean the same thing I mean when I talk about "finite games." Everyone isn't in the end game in a finite game. Everyone *leaves* when they reach the end of a finite game, because at that point the game is over. If you want players to stick around, there has to be something to do. If they are not progressing upwards, because there's no more progress, they have to be doing something else productive. The most common thing people do in games where progress stops is shift to PvP, where competition replaces content-driven progress. That is not a finite game. That is a game that replaces content-driven progress with competition ladders.
If you have a game that has a fixed finite number of progressional tiers, and you declare the top one to be the "elite tier" that you don't expect most players to ever achieve, then for the vast majority of your players this tier doesn't really exist. The game becomes a game with N-1 progressional tiers. And if the end game only exists at the top tier, then everyone else runs out of things to do eventually and quits. The alternative is to make two different end games, one for the elite players and a separate one for everyone else. That's possible, but in my opinion unless you're dealing with a dev team full of creative savants, it is also completely dumb.
I can say one thing with absolute certainty: this game is not that kind of game. The progressional tiers that the progress titles demarcate are all true progressional tiers. They are intended for the playerbase to progress through. None of them are, or ever were intended to be "elite titles" that represented the final goal of the game. If you think this game is supposed to have such a thing, I'm afraid you're never going to see such a thing in the game. Except maybe when the game finally dies.
i admire the use of stupidly long comments to sound smart, but this point makes no sense and this comment is redundant
TB is CAV all over again. Nerfed 6.1 into a clown fest where anyone can grab CAV.
I did cav pre nerf, it was never difficult.
Point being they made CAV much easier when the difficulty was fine as it were. They made getting TB significantly more easier now with SOP.
But why does that bother you? Isn't it better when those behind catch up and the gap between players is smaller? I don't mind if cavaliers become TB tiny bit easier, they still have to complete Act 6 anyway. All the items, catalyst, daily crystals and what have you depreciate in value over time. If you achieved TB 6 months ago, you will be way ahead of those who just gonna get the title anyway. So why care?
Most players who became TB had to earn the title. SOP takes away from that feat.
You're talking about day one TBs. Between then and now, a lot of Cavalier players became Thronebreaker assembling their first R3 from Variants and CavEQ without needing Abyss. So while SoP is generating a pretty big burst of rewards, compared to what players have already been earning over the last year of just grinding out EQ, it isn't *that* huge. It is 75% worth of T5C selectors assuming they max out the milestones. That's great for two months and nine fights, but it is also just eight months or so of CavEQ rewards at 10% per month; approximately four months of CavEQ plus Legendary SQ effort. In terms of calendar time, SoP is handing Cav players about four months of T5CC in two months of time.
In terms of gameplay effort per unit reward, SoP is very good. But in terms of overall getting Cavalier players to TB sooner, it is cutting a few months of time off the calendar. Getting TB *fast* required special effort. Getting TB *eventually* just requires time. It is inevitable for any player doing the normal regular monthly content consistently.
People with 20+ r3 champs and over 100 6*s upset cause someone can get one R3 faster.
This is what I'm noticing too ... complaining because they spent a lot of units/time/resources/whatever to rush through the content, and clear it all (which is fine .. nothing wrong with that ..) when (finally) some of us patient enough to just take our time .. progress via a different path .. . LOL
Tell that to someone who completed abyss to become TB.
Honestly just shut the hell up and play who cares if the end content is easier for the newer players! Just focus on yourself and if u think the rewards are too much don’t play it…
Or maybe, just maybe, people can see beyond their own accounts and realise that something may be happening that could have negative consequences for the game as a whole, and for the future of the game they love.
So frustrating when conversations devolve to "well you're just jealous" when that obviously wasn't the intent and just ignore the main point.
Comments
I don't think you mean the same thing I mean when I talk about "finite games." Everyone isn't in the end game in a finite game. Everyone *leaves* when they reach the end of a finite game, because at that point the game is over. If you want players to stick around, there has to be something to do. If they are not progressing upwards, because there's no more progress, they have to be doing something else productive. The most common thing people do in games where progress stops is shift to PvP, where competition replaces content-driven progress. That is not a finite game. That is a game that replaces content-driven progress with competition ladders.
If you have a game that has a fixed finite number of progressional tiers, and you declare the top one to be the "elite tier" that you don't expect most players to ever achieve, then for the vast majority of your players this tier doesn't really exist. The game becomes a game with N-1 progressional tiers. And if the end game only exists at the top tier, then everyone else runs out of things to do eventually and quits. The alternative is to make two different end games, one for the elite players and a separate one for everyone else. That's possible, but in my opinion unless you're dealing with a dev team full of creative savants, it is also completely dumb.
I can say one thing with absolute certainty: this game is not that kind of game. The progressional tiers that the progress titles demarcate are all true progressional tiers. They are intended for the playerbase to progress through. None of them are, or ever were intended to be "elite titles" that represented the final goal of the game. If you think this game is supposed to have such a thing, I'm afraid you're never going to see such a thing in the game. Except maybe when the game finally dies.
but hasn't completed labyrinth (I have done a few test runs ... ) ...
no, you can't even compare SoP to Labyrinth .. *maybe* compare it to Realm of Legends ...
I was not expecting to be able to handle many fights in SoP .. and so far, the only fight I skipped was Mysterio ... I've solo'd the rest .. which is fightfully surprising!! O.o
Even I'll say, it shouldn't be this easy .. LOL
(but same time, I'll take it! That 25% t5cc selector is .. sweeeet
The big change to 6.1 happened in the 6.1 beta, actually. I can only imagine what the complaints would have been had it released in its original form. No Retreat originally kicked in immediately, without the double dash back mechanics. That was all sorts of fun.
complaining because they spent a lot of units/time/resources/whatever to rush through the content, and clear it all (which is fine .. nothing wrong with that ..)
when (finally) some of us patient enough to just take our time .. progress via a different path .. .
LOL
It’s way, way too easy for the incredible amount of rewards we get.
I am actually fine with it.It was already going to happen and will continue when we will reach closer to new progression title.
In terms of gameplay effort per unit reward, SoP is very good. But in terms of overall getting Cavalier players to TB sooner, it is cutting a few months of time off the calendar. Getting TB *fast* required special effort. Getting TB *eventually* just requires time. It is inevitable for any player doing the normal regular monthly content consistently.