I hate to say this, but SoP’s Rewards to Difficulty ratio is way too high

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Comments

  • xNigxNig Member Posts: 7,330 ★★★★★

    xNig said:

    xNig said:

    Hort4 said:



    xNig said:

    We’ll just wait for them to hit another wall when the increased rank steamrolling doesn’t compensate for the skills (that they haven’t built up) they lack.

    Not everyone does have skills as many on hear seem to be saying. However, i am sure in many cases it is not from a lack of effort. Should they quit the game or be encouraged by offering them some assistance. It has been awhile time since TB was introduced. I really don’t see a big issue.
    Skills can be trained. Experience is the number 1 teacher of skills and knowledge.

    Being able to mow through content with overly ranked champs stop that process and causes more harm than good in the long run.

    I feel sad for new players who are going through A4 if they get a 6* CG or Ghost. Cause inevitably, the bulk of those who do will be able to trivialize content meant to help them grow as a player.
    With the length of time it takes to amass a T5CC, skill is rarely the issue. In fact, I seem to remember that being the argument with the requirements, that RNG is not skill-based. In terms of Kabam's requirements, you need to be skilled enough to complete Act 6. The second objective is a matter of amassing enough Frags to Rank a Champ.
    Length of time to amass a T5CC? That’s really short for Cav players.

    They have selectors for V1-7 exploration, selectors for each exploration of 6.1-6.4, then 7.1 and 7.2. That’s 13 x 25% selectors no? How long does it take to explore the content for 4 of those?

    And this is excluding monthly Cav EQ 10% and side quest 10%. Not to mention weekly AQ Map 7 if they’re really that thirsty for T5CC.
    Then if people can do all that, what's the argument about skill for? Lol.
    There are some sources yes. Before SoP, you were waiting on 2% or 10% RNG respectively. Then the right Class. Not really pertinent to me because I'll Rank most Champs people wouldn't. I think overall SoP isn't going to let a bunch of unskilled noobs, for lack of a better term, to bypass their growth.
    The argument is for people who try to skip this learning process and fast track their way to TB, while complaining rng is holding them back.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,567 ★★★★★
    xNig said:

    xNig said:

    xNig said:

    Hort4 said:



    xNig said:

    We’ll just wait for them to hit another wall when the increased rank steamrolling doesn’t compensate for the skills (that they haven’t built up) they lack.

    Not everyone does have skills as many on hear seem to be saying. However, i am sure in many cases it is not from a lack of effort. Should they quit the game or be encouraged by offering them some assistance. It has been awhile time since TB was introduced. I really don’t see a big issue.
    Skills can be trained. Experience is the number 1 teacher of skills and knowledge.

    Being able to mow through content with overly ranked champs stop that process and causes more harm than good in the long run.

    I feel sad for new players who are going through A4 if they get a 6* CG or Ghost. Cause inevitably, the bulk of those who do will be able to trivialize content meant to help them grow as a player.
    With the length of time it takes to amass a T5CC, skill is rarely the issue. In fact, I seem to remember that being the argument with the requirements, that RNG is not skill-based. In terms of Kabam's requirements, you need to be skilled enough to complete Act 6. The second objective is a matter of amassing enough Frags to Rank a Champ.
    Length of time to amass a T5CC? That’s really short for Cav players.

    They have selectors for V1-7 exploration, selectors for each exploration of 6.1-6.4, then 7.1 and 7.2. That’s 13 x 25% selectors no? How long does it take to explore the content for 4 of those?

    And this is excluding monthly Cav EQ 10% and side quest 10%. Not to mention weekly AQ Map 7 if they’re really that thirsty for T5CC.
    Then if people can do all that, what's the argument about skill for? Lol.
    There are some sources yes. Before SoP, you were waiting on 2% or 10% RNG respectively. Then the right Class. Not really pertinent to me because I'll Rank most Champs people wouldn't. I think overall SoP isn't going to let a bunch of unskilled noobs, for lack of a better term, to bypass their growth.
    The argument is for people who try to skip this learning process and fast track their way to TB, while complaining rng is holding them back.
    They're doing that now. Content rushers are jumping in and just so happen to hit TB faster than their Accounts can develop. It's been a part of the game as long as I can remember. Back to the OG Switch and Thor. It's a byproduct of tutorials and YouTube content. People will find the easiest way to do anything and put the word out there. Do I think it's healthy? No. I think people are missing out on fundamental experience. Still, it's the nature of the beast. Watch some tutorials, look up some websites, plow through the content.
  • The_Sentry06The_Sentry06 Member Posts: 7,787 ★★★★★
    xNig said:

    xNig said:

    Hort4 said:



    xNig said:

    We’ll just wait for them to hit another wall when the increased rank steamrolling doesn’t compensate for the skills (that they haven’t built up) they lack.

    Not everyone does have skills as many on hear seem to be saying. However, i am sure in many cases it is not from a lack of effort. Should they quit the game or be encouraged by offering them some assistance. It has been awhile time since TB was introduced. I really don’t see a big issue.
    Skills can be trained. Experience is the number 1 teacher of skills and knowledge.

    Being able to mow through content with overly ranked champs stop that process and causes more harm than good in the long run.

    I feel sad for new players who are going through A4 if they get a 6* CG or Ghost. Cause inevitably, the bulk of those who do will be able to trivialize content meant to help them grow as a player.
    With the length of time it takes to amass a T5CC, skill is rarely the issue. In fact, I seem to remember that being the argument with the requirements, that RNG is not skill-based. In terms of Kabam's requirements, you need to be skilled enough to complete Act 6. The second objective is a matter of amassing enough Frags to Rank a Champ.
    Length of time to amass a T5CC? That’s really short for Cav players.

    They have 25% for each V1-7 exploration, 25% for each exploration of 6.1-6.4, then 7.1 and 7.2. That’s 13 x 25% no? How long does it take to explore the content for some of those? There’s also completion offers offering more T5CC.

    And this is excluding monthly Cav EQ 10% and side quest 10%. Not to mention weekly AQ Map 7 if they’re really that thirsty for T5CC.
    25% t5cc was only added from variant 5.
  • Hort4Hort4 Member Posts: 507 ★★★
    xNig said:

    Hort4 said:



    xNig said:

    We’ll just wait for them to hit another wall when the increased rank steamrolling doesn’t compensate for the skills (that they haven’t built up) they lack.

    Not everyone does have skills as many on hear seem to be saying. However, i am sure in many cases it is not from a lack of effort. Should they quit the game or be encouraged by offering them some assistance. It has been awhile time since TB was introduced. I really don’t see a big issue.
    Skills can be trained. Experience is the number 1 teacher of skills and knowledge.

    Being able to mow through content with overly ranked champs stop that process and causes more harm than good in the long run.

    I feel sad for new players who are going through A4 if they get a 6* CG or Ghost. Cause inevitably, the bulk of those who do will be able to trivialize content meant to help them grow as a player.
    You might be able to improve skills but doesn’t mean you improve to the point needed. Not everyone can be as skilled as the best players. That doesn’t mean they should need to quit or never advance. You can improve skills in sports as well but not all make the major leagues.
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  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Member Posts: 9,264 ★★★★★
    Graves_3 said:

    MCOChimps said:

    Crcrcrc said:

    I love SoP so far, I think it’s been a wonderful event, and the rewards are awesome.

    A bit too awesome at the moment

    As of right now any cav players with mediocre skills or some unitd, even ones on 6.2, are going to receive 50% t5cc in selectors at the end. If the next 2 fights are close to the same difficulty, that will be 75% t5cc.

    We are going to be having cav players working through 6.2 and beyond with a r3 6*, which are usually so difficult to obtain that it’s quickest to get abyss done. Nearly every cav player that has 6.4 done is guaranteed tb, and anyone before that is getting tb right with 6.4 completion.

    Now, this sounds great for cavs, but in all reality it’s going to make late game progression even easier, which means that the next time we get hard content, there’ll be a lot more players who haven’t improved their skills enough and were carried through act 6 with a r3.

    Tb is also going to no longer be a very rare title, because most cavs are going to be getting it after SoP.

    There’s not really a solution other than a nerf, which would be a HORRIBLE decision, so there’s not really any options left here.

    I just wanted to do a quick explanation of why I think content like this needs either higher difficulty by a lot or less rewards, because it’s bad for the game as a whole.

    I can't disagree enough, honestly, we Cavs have been thrown aside and gotten the butt end of things for the past year I'd say be it this year's July 4th, last year's Cyber weekend. For once we have a chance to progress and move on. Not every Cav player has the 6* roster or the additional 25% of the T5cc but, t's our one shortcut to TB and I'm sure in no time there will be a new title arriving with 7.4 producing even better rewards. But honestly quit being so salty and move on, Its great that this event has been put out so that we can progress. Please.... spare us the complaining.
    The thing that a lot of Cavs don’t really get about this debate is that if you need 75% of a selector to get a shortcut to TB, you’re not really the target of becoming TB.

    Before SoP, TB wasn’t aimed at someone with 25% of one T5cc. That is the issue that is being brought up in the thread. That isn’t a veteran Cav player. That is literally someone who has done 1 run through of act 6 and you need 1 good 6* and that’s it. You can select an entire t5cc for them.
    That’s actually exactly who kabam intended to be thronebreaker. 1 run through of act 6 and having an r3 six star. If it was otherwise they would have made the requirement different. Almost a year in to the title, they are just making it easier to get there. I don’t see anything really wrong in that.
    Graves_3 said:

    MCOChimps said:

    Crcrcrc said:

    I love SoP so far, I think it’s been a wonderful event, and the rewards are awesome.

    A bit too awesome at the moment

    As of right now any cav players with mediocre skills or some unitd, even ones on 6.2, are going to receive 50% t5cc in selectors at the end. If the next 2 fights are close to the same difficulty, that will be 75% t5cc.

    We are going to be having cav players working through 6.2 and beyond with a r3 6*, which are usually so difficult to obtain that it’s quickest to get abyss done. Nearly every cav player that has 6.4 done is guaranteed tb, and anyone before that is getting tb right with 6.4 completion.

    Now, this sounds great for cavs, but in all reality it’s going to make late game progression even easier, which means that the next time we get hard content, there’ll be a lot more players who haven’t improved their skills enough and were carried through act 6 with a r3.

    Tb is also going to no longer be a very rare title, because most cavs are going to be getting it after SoP.

    There’s not really a solution other than a nerf, which would be a HORRIBLE decision, so there’s not really any options left here.

    I just wanted to do a quick explanation of why I think content like this needs either higher difficulty by a lot or less rewards, because it’s bad for the game as a whole.

    I can't disagree enough, honestly, we Cavs have been thrown aside and gotten the butt end of things for the past year I'd say be it this year's July 4th, last year's Cyber weekend. For once we have a chance to progress and move on. Not every Cav player has the 6* roster or the additional 25% of the T5cc but, t's our one shortcut to TB and I'm sure in no time there will be a new title arriving with 7.4 producing even better rewards. But honestly quit being so salty and move on, Its great that this event has been put out so that we can progress. Please.... spare us the complaining.
    The thing that a lot of Cavs don’t really get about this debate is that if you need 75% of a selector to get a shortcut to TB, you’re not really the target of becoming TB.

    Before SoP, TB wasn’t aimed at someone with 25% of one T5cc. That is the issue that is being brought up in the thread. That isn’t a veteran Cav player. That is literally someone who has done 1 run through of act 6 and you need 1 good 6* and that’s it. You can select an entire t5cc for them.
    That’s actually exactly who kabam intended to be thronebreaker. 1 run through of act 6 and having an r3 six star. If it was otherwise they would have made the requirement different. Almost a year in to the title, they are just making it easier to get there. I don’t see anything really wrong in that.
    You’re absolutely right but I think you missed the point just a bit, I mean that with just act 6 completion done, it literally isn’t possible to have a fully formed t5cc. You only get 25% from there and youd have to supplement it with variant content, map 7, Cav Eq, exploration of act 6 chapters, act 7 etc. And that takes a lot longer, and a lot more effort than just act 6 completion. Remember that with RNG, you’re very unlikely to get the same class with 4 25%, and with 2% and 10% it spreads out the classes even more. On average, by the odds, you will have to form close to 600% of a t5cc to form your first (excluding selectors and nexus).

    So why is this a big deal? I think because taking the months or close to a year of work of doing variants, map 7, act content, Cav EQ etc and saying, nah to get TB you don’t need to do all of that now, instead - you only have to do these 9 weekly fights and as long as you’ve done act 6 completion you are a TB now. I think you’re absolutely right, it should get easier over time than when it first started. And it has, with Nexus in Cav, with selectors in act 7 and all the new variants it’s much easier to get TB now.

    But I think SoP allowing a 75% selector from relatively easy fights for the rewards offered is too big a step. And that’s the crux of this argument.

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  • GiuliameijGiuliameij Member Posts: 1,849 ★★★★
    It has always been like this. Certain people got the uncollected title with r4/r5 4*. People that were a year or so later did it with r4 5* (like myself) and there are people now who do it with r5 5* champs.
    It was only natural that players who do content later can do it with higher ranked champs. However, this time, the new higher rank to get act 6 done also happens to be the highest rank. But since rank 4's are around the corner it won`t be for long.
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  • The_Sentry06The_Sentry06 Member Posts: 7,787 ★★★★★
    grfvb said:

    grfvb said:

    Crcrcrc said:

    Wow, 100 disagrees. I guess we’ll see if I’m right when the rewards pay out

    im surprised it's not more... please educate yourself on how mobile game economy works before writing such garbage..a simple googling would do. or at least read DNA's feedback. he's got very valid points backed up with hard facts. i suggest everyone reading DNA's posts.. pure knowledge, no misinterpretation or misleading nonsense...
    Ironic since even DNA can kinda see the concern here. Please educate YOURSELF. Mobile game companies don't just randomnly go from having no selectors of an extremely valuable resource in any temporary content to randomnly giving out 75% of it for relatively no work without a reason.
    conspiracy theorists are so cute 🤩🤩 DNA's concerns are coming from different area. but i get it op is your forum mate... you frequent forum warriors gotta stick together ay... i wish you many r4 champs soon bruv!!

    How is this a conspiracy theory lol. Even if DNA's concerns are coming from somewhere else, it's still the same and as he has already said, there's no need to be worried about it now.
    Also gotta love how you completely ignore my point. What a waste of a reply.
  • Denslo500Denslo500 Member Posts: 905 ★★★
    SOP is easy for
    - the highly skilled
    - very developed rosters
    - Deep pockets

    I am none of those.
    I haven’t beaten a single one of the opponents.
    I am pretty average as a player.

    The gap between the top 1% and the rest of the world is huge.
    Enjoy being the rich and getting richer.
  • Thanos1149Thanos1149 Member Posts: 1,136 ★★★
    edited August 2021
    Denslo500 said:

    SOP is easy for
    - the highly skilled
    - very developed rosters
    - Deep pockets

    I am none of those.
    I haven’t beaten a single one of the opponents.
    I am pretty average as a player.

    The gap between the top 1% and the rest of the world is huge.
    Enjoy being the rich and getting richer.

    Me who’s none of what you listed and still beat all 7 fights as a cavalier. I am ftp, moderately skilled and I’m still stuck on 6.2.3 so I don’t have really have a developed roster since I struggled in 6.2.2 a lot. And I found 5 out of 7 fights easy in this, which really doesn’t seem like a challenge for people who’ve done Abyss on vacation and such.
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  • OneMast3rOneMast3r Member Posts: 331 ★★
    For FTP players that haven't spent any money on deals, this is a great way for some people to get a what they need for the title.

    You don't do well as a game if you don't allow folks to progress.

    On a side note I saw some people say that this will make act 6 easier, and it will not. Act 6 is hard. Even with a whole team of 6r3s the hard fights are still hard. 6r3s give you a little more wiggle room for mess ups, but it's the node combos that make the act hard.
  • CrcrcrcCrcrcrc Member Posts: 7,963 ★★★★★
    Eric14 said:

    As someone who is TB because I was too impatient to wait to form a T5CC and jumped in abyss. I don’t see why that’s a problem, yes this event has been fairly easy and has amazing rewards that allow certain cav players to reach TB really soon, but how does that affect you? Dude you’re literally worrying about someone else rather than being happy for them. It was harder for us to get it, but isn’t this event a step in the right direction?
    Your biggest argument was that a rank 3 will make the game progression past 6.4 SOOOOO easy, which is not the case because a single rank 3 will not clear everything and make every path theirs.
    Point is, It’s not a bad event, and It’s not bad that people will progress because of it. It doesn’t affect you whatsoever, You should be happy for them

    Please read the rest of the discussion. I'm a very late cav player, not being selfish at all
  • DeaconDeacon Member Posts: 4,254 ★★★★★
    Denslo500 said:

    SOP is easy for
    - the highly skilled
    - very developed rosters
    - Deep pockets

    I am none of those.
    I haven’t beaten a single one of the opponents.
    I am pretty average as a player.

    The gap between the top 1% and the rest of the world is huge.
    Enjoy being the rich and getting richer.

    I've completed all fights and haven't spent a single penny nor would I to finish them even if I could not have. It's really, like most content, about having the proper counters so skill and developed rosters yes .. you're right.
  • KerneasKerneas Member Posts: 3,825 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    Crcrcrc said:

    Tb is also going to no longer be a very rare title, because most cavs are going to be getting it after SoP.

    It isn't really intended to be a rare title, but regardless most Cavs aren't going to become TB after SoP rewards go out because they will still need 6.4 completion, which contrary to what some people say is still a significant barrier for most players. What this will do is make the R3 hurdle extremely low for Cavs who live through SoP.

    But once SoP is gone (and technically, in terms of T5CC it is already at the point where newly minted Cavs can't get high enough anymore) every player that reaches Cav afterwards will have the same hurdle as Cav players had before SoP. SoP's Cav2TB benefits are temporary.
    6.4 completion is easy tho, compared to obtaining t5cc
  • Hort4Hort4 Member Posts: 507 ★★★
    This is the OP original issue

    “Now, this sounds great for cavs, but in all reality it’s going to make late game progression even easier, which means that the next time we get hard content, there’ll be a lot more players who haven’t improved their skills enough and were carried through act 6 with a r3. “

    Tell me which single champ as an R3 is going to carry someone through chapter 6 versus same champ as an R2.
  • Mr_PlatypusMr_Platypus Member Posts: 2,779 ★★★★★
    grfvb said:

    Crcrcrc said:

    Wow, 100 disagrees. I guess we’ll see if I’m right when the rewards pay out

    im surprised it's not more... please educate yourself on how mobile game economy works before writing such garbage..a simple googling would do. or at least read DNA's feedback. he's got very valid points backed up with hard facts. i suggest everyone reading DNA's posts.. pure knowledge, no misinterpretation or misleading nonsense...
    I’m pretty sure DNA has also said it’s too easy.
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  • The_Sentry06The_Sentry06 Member Posts: 7,787 ★★★★★
    grfvb said:

    grfvb said:

    Crcrcrc said:

    Wow, 100 disagrees. I guess we’ll see if I’m right when the rewards pay out

    im surprised it's not more... please educate yourself on how mobile game economy works before writing such garbage..a simple googling would do. or at least read DNA's feedback. he's got very valid points backed up with hard facts. i suggest everyone reading DNA's posts.. pure knowledge, no misinterpretation or misleading nonsense...
    I’m pretty sure DNA has also said it’s too easy.
    I am not talking about difficulty of SOP... like it or not... you cannot objectively state if any content is easy or dificulty. it's all relative.

    i encourage you to read his posts again, got lots of insight (again forget about whether SoP is easy or not, it's about understanding the logic behind rewards structure in context of overall game econ) a bit longer posts, but not even DNA is smart enough to explain complex dynamics of this game in 2 sentences...
    Yes this content is relatively breadcrumbs compared to the difficulty people go through to get selectors in act 6. Act 7 is way longer than what we have to do here. I suggest you read other people's posts as well and try and understand their perspectives as well.
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Member Posts: 9,264 ★★★★★
    grfvb said:

    grfvb said:

    Crcrcrc said:

    Wow, 100 disagrees. I guess we’ll see if I’m right when the rewards pay out

    im surprised it's not more... please educate yourself on how mobile game economy works before writing such garbage..a simple googling would do. or at least read DNA's feedback. he's got very valid points backed up with hard facts. i suggest everyone reading DNA's posts.. pure knowledge, no misinterpretation or misleading nonsense...
    I’m pretty sure DNA has also said it’s too easy.
    I am not talking about difficulty of SOP... like it or not... you cannot objectively state if any content is easy or dificulty. it's all relative.

    i encourage you to read his posts again, got lots of insight (again forget about whether SoP is easy or not, it's about understanding the logic behind rewards structure in context of overall game econ) a bit longer posts, but not even DNA is smart enough to explain complex dynamics of this game in 2 sentences...
    But this post is so intrinsically linked to the difficulty of SoP, that you can’t just decide not to include it in your argument. The entire premise is that if SoP was harder, there wouldn’t be any question at all about the rewards given out.
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  • The_Sentry06The_Sentry06 Member Posts: 7,787 ★★★★★
    edited August 2021
    grfvb said:

    grfvb said:

    grfvb said:

    Crcrcrc said:

    Wow, 100 disagrees. I guess we’ll see if I’m right when the rewards pay out

    im surprised it's not more... please educate yourself on how mobile game economy works before writing such garbage..a simple googling would do. or at least read DNA's feedback. he's got very valid points backed up with hard facts. i suggest everyone reading DNA's posts.. pure knowledge, no misinterpretation or misleading nonsense...
    I’m pretty sure DNA has also said it’s too easy.
    I am not talking about difficulty of SOP... like it or not... you cannot objectively state if any content is easy or dificulty. it's all relative.

    i encourage you to read his posts again, got lots of insight (again forget about whether SoP is easy or not, it's about understanding the logic behind rewards structure in context of overall game econ) a bit longer posts, but not even DNA is smart enough to explain complex dynamics of this game in 2 sentences...
    Yes this content is relatively breadcrumbs compared to the difficulty people go through to get selectors in act 6. Act 7 is way longer than what we have to do here. I suggest you read other people's posts as well and try and understand their perspectives as well.
    i do read other ppl's posts if they have valid arguments and i appreciate some perspectives but mostly coming from lack of knowledge or just fallacy - e.g. how can you compare rewards/effort of act 6, 7 and SOP when they were constructed different time, under different conditions and for different purpose, etc

    dont be too negative my guy, i am just encouraging hopefully majority of reasonable forum users to appreciate we have chance to peak into dev kitchen via DNA.

    I'm not against DNA's posts. I'm trying to say that just because he exists, doesn't make everyone else's points irrelevant.
    grfvb said:

    grfvb said:

    grfvb said:

    Crcrcrc said:

    Wow, 100 disagrees. I guess we’ll see if I’m right when the rewards pay out

    im surprised it's not more... please educate yourself on how mobile game economy works before writing such garbage..a simple googling would do. or at least read DNA's feedback. he's got very valid points backed up with hard facts. i suggest everyone reading DNA's posts.. pure knowledge, no misinterpretation or misleading nonsense...
    I’m pretty sure DNA has also said it’s too easy.
    I am not talking about difficulty of SOP... like it or not... you cannot objectively state if any content is easy or dificulty. it's all relative.

    i encourage you to read his posts again, got lots of insight (again forget about whether SoP is easy or not, it's about understanding the logic behind rewards structure in context of overall game econ) a bit longer posts, but not even DNA is smart enough to explain complex dynamics of this game in 2 sentences...
    Yes this content is relatively breadcrumbs compared to the difficulty people go through to get selectors in act 6. Act 7 is way longer than what we have to do here. I suggest you read other people's posts as well and try and understand their perspectives as well.
    e.g. how can you compare rewards/effort of act 6, 7 and SOP when they were constructed different time, under different conditions and for different purpose, etc

    Wha-
    By your logic SOP should have also given different rewards since they were constructed in a different time to act 6 and act 7. You cannot just ignore the other main sources of a resource. And Act 6 and even act 7 is way more difficult and at the very least more time consuming that this, which the entire point of this post.
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