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Future of Progression: Relics, 7-Stars and Ascension Roadmap - Discussion Thread

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Comments

  • BeeweeBeewee Posts: 383 ★★★
    thepiggy said:

    As much as I hate the feeling over starting all over, it's a necessary evil for the game to survive. What I don't like is them adding multiple revenue streams to solve a problem that I never asked for. This is the worst part.

    If you're moving onto 7s, I can live with that, but get rid of Relics and Ascension. We can take the impact, we don't need to pay a permanent premium for a parachute and a soft landing pad when they don't even matter anymore.

    This! So much of this
  • BigPoppaCBONEBigPoppaCBONE Posts: 1,753 ★★★★★
    I'm not super optimistic at how this will turn out as far as increasing my enjoyment of the game. Being realistic but I'm willing to give it a chance, because I want to keep playing the game.

    Thoughts.
    • ◉Relics attached to Strikers is... less than ideal. There's enough trouble getting the regular buttons on screen to respond 100% of the time without adding another to be annoyed at when it doesn't work.
    • ◉ Can we use the relic and disable the Striker?
    • ◉Will Relics make my champs I use with them feel like a buffed champ? If not, how are they better than a synergy or boost and why should I chase them?
    • ◉Hope for Nova?
    • ◉Will it be a new level of disappointment when I get the boost meant for a Guardian of the Galaxy or a Symbiote if I don't have those champs? Or I do but they suck or aren't fun to play so they aren't ranked up or are at a worthlessly low sig?
    • ◉I feel like this Ascension will take longer to show up than everyone wants and once it does, it will take cash-only tokens or some other thing that will make it not worth doing.
    • ◉Will they add extra graphic effects? Could they? crosses fingers
    • ◉Ah ****, I play on Android phones, so I won't get the effects anyway. uncrosses fingers
    • ◉OG champs still super suck.
    • ◉Masteries still outdated and untouched.
    • ◉New super rare 7stars will still predominantly suck the same way that most of every other rarity we get are actually weak and/or suck, so their presence or absence means basically nothing to me. I learned my lesson and will hoard those shards until a featured crystal or wish crystal shows up, vastly increasing my chances to get a good champ.
    I guess we'll see.
  • MauledMauled Posts: 3,695 ★★★★★
    One thing that I think needs to happen alongside patch 37.0 is a massive overhaul of non-permanent rewards and shard access.

    5* are now dead in the water, let’s be real here. They should be in arena milestones at this stage and there should be close to ½ a 6* from arena rank rewards

    why not add a new rank to the existing 6* (r6,r7 ....etc) instead of 7*?

    That wouldn't add the same longevity to the game overall.
    Why not?
    These Rarities aren't just for the Top Players who will need something new to push for. They're for the entire game to grow into, including the Players and the Devs.
    I know it's a pointless rat hole to go down, but that makes absolutely no sense.
    How does it make no sense?
    I asked you to explain why you stated the 7*s are the way to add more longevity to the game and you came back with because top players needing to push isn't the same as players and Devs growing. Now explain to me how that answers the question, because for the life of me it makes no sense to me.
    The issue with not adding 7* is that fairly soon players are going to be chasing the 6 champions in the feature and the odd champion that eludes us all. I have 160 6* and I honestly can’t remember when I last spent money on the game. I’m not a whale but I am in the endgame - T1 AW etc., now many of my peers do spend, some truly silly amounts of money too, and have virtually every 6* already. Opening crystals for sig stones isn’t fun and relics are going to be rewards from bg at least initially.

    Without something new the game will stagnate, and it already is which is why I dare say they’ve moved this forward, and the obvious expansion is resetting the board so there’s excitement opening crystals again.
  • Sinedd92Sinedd92 Posts: 94
    This is going to be a really really bad idea to add 7s while nobody still has 6 5/65.
    Personally I keep playing this game cuz my skill matters more than my wallet, otherwise I'm gonna be out.
    I believe you will change your mind and keep up the pace you had before or at least not speed up this much
  • ElsaEternalElsaEternal Posts: 94
    edited September 29
    What will ascension actually do for the champions to make them on par with a 7 star? I remember how hard it was to max out a 5 star and how tough it was to rank a 6 star to a point where they were stronger, and now it's got to a point where 5 stars aren't even worth ranking anymore. How long will it be before all the 6 stars we have worked so hard and spent countless hours grinding to earn and rank up become just as useless as the 5 stars that just collect dust?
  • ElsaEternalElsaEternal Posts: 94
    Why not change the max sig crystals?
    Instead of a chance at awakening gems that we probably don't even need or stones that we only use for item use points or shards for another crystal that will eventually result in another max sig crystal, why not make them useful?
    Instead of what's currently in the max sig crystal, there should be character specific shards, like there are in other games (even kabam games... mirrorverse has them)
    For example, you pull a duplicate 6 star colossus and he is already sig 200, instead of a max sig crystal, there could be shards toward a 7 star colossus.
    This would encourage the use of lower level sig stones and increase their value, simply because dupes of max sig champions would lead to earning the next level up. It would also help people plan who they want to rank up, since they will be able to see who they might be able to obtain better than hoping for a character on your next crystal spin, only to pull psycho man again.
    Just an idea, hopefully someone sees and considers.
  • 2_Wheeler2_Wheeler Posts: 85
    Seems it’s about catering to the whales and nothing for those who labor in the mines. Without a way to collect the necessary catalyst beyond becoming Cavalier there are some stuck in the mines. I’m through spending to progress.
  • Kappa2gKappa2g Posts: 193 ★★★
    Relics truly seem interesting and can perhaps shakeup the usability of certain champions in the meta. Unfortunate this announcement had to be looped in with the other one..

    Now for the bad thing, launching 7 stars at an age of already 225 champions exist, this is a serious blow to ftp players who have been trying to complete their roster, there will definitely be a decent amount of players who dont have the heart/stomach to rebuild entire rosters. Ascension is stated to respect a player's progression, if it really did, it would have been a path to upgrade one's 6 star to 7 stars.

    I'm sure the team knows the reaction to 7 stars will be dreadful and to be honest that blog post is insufficient to instill hope to players.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 16,908 ★★★★★

    Buttehrs said:

    Buttehrs said:

    why not add a new rank to the existing 6* (r6,r7 ....etc) instead of 7*?

    That wouldn't add the same longevity to the game overall.
    Why not?
    These Rarities aren't just for the Top Players who will need something new to push for. They're for the entire game to grow into, including the Players and the Devs.
    I know it's a pointless rat hole to go down, but that makes absolutely no sense.
    How does it make no sense?
    I asked you to explain why you stated the 7*s are the way to add more longevity to the game and you came back with because top players needing to push isn't the same as players and Devs growing. Now explain to me how that answers the question, because for the life of me it makes no sense to me.
    Besides the fact that I support what DNA just said, I'll break it down.
    A new Rarity is a new acquisition, and a new X amount of Ranks to introduce. That gives X amount of time to design content, work on Rosters, make umpteen decisions, tune things, you name it.
    Adding new Ranks, Items, etc....that just adds another rung to the same acquisition. Sure, that works for people wanting to stop the process, but it doesn't give the game much to grow into. It's just prolongement. As much as people think they want that, it will get old very quickly. Not only that, it limits future content which is planned and designed much longer in advance. Given the current rate of Resource acquisition, it won't take long before the game hits a stalemate.
    The future of the game cannot be limited to working on a new Rank every 6 months to a year, and trying for the occasional OP Champ that people take interest in.
    The real issue is people think they can get to a place where they don't have to grow a Roster, and all that spells is end-game. Literally.
    While I don't agree with your assessment, I appreciate you putting together a much more coherent thought.

    I understand the concept of needing a new "rarity" to chase for the economics of the game and overall balance, but the need for it constantly to be a new star level escapes me. The overall champ pool becomes more diluted month after month and year after year, purely with the introduction of new champs. That alone makes it much harder for a new player to be able to grab the exact champions they want out of the gate and so they must "Chase" as well as existing players who want the latest and greatest. So why again is there a need for a different star?

    And then I guess you're telling me Marvel doesn't have enough characters to sustain continued additions. I will whole heartedly disagree based on 40+ years of reading comics. It is more than possible to maintain a steady influx of new champions without adding stars.

    There is no reason the systems of progression can't be expanded with these news ideas of relics and ascension, so that players are once again "chasing." Adding new ideas and concepts may not be what everyone wants, but at least it keeps things fresh. Adding star levels to the same old champs is boring, stale and lazy.
    Adding stars is not the same thing as adding new champions. At all. New champs bring in new abilities. New Stars bring in the ability to take those champs to higher power levels. The two aren't identical or replaceable by the other.
    You’re missing the point I as making. There was a statement that 7*s were needed instead of just adding levels and ranks to existing champs because players need something to chase after. I’m saying that there can be plenty of things to chase other than a new star level
    There will be. Relics and runes for the relics. Or did you not read the post lol.
    Exactly. Which means no need for 7*s
    Why does that mean there's no need for them?
    Because there are other mechanics that will accomplish the same goal things to chase and more powerful champs. This is the laziest option.
    So were 6*'s lazy when we had 5*'s and had just started maxing those out at R5?
  • We should get 7* shards for the 6* that we already duped or at least give us some 6* shards, it’s so underwhelming duping a 6* when you only get iso
  • ButtehrsButtehrs Posts: 2,898 ★★★★★

    Somebody's first 7* is going to be Karnak 😂😂😂😂😭😭😭

    Good. Can use him againt evade or autoblock champs. Every champs has thier use just gotta think before you cry it's garbage.
  • DanielRandDanielRand Posts: 111 ★★

    Buttehrs said:

    Buttehrs said:

    why not add a new rank to the existing 6* (r6,r7 ....etc) instead of 7*?

    That wouldn't add the same longevity to the game overall.
    Why not?
    These Rarities aren't just for the Top Players who will need something new to push for. They're for the entire game to grow into, including the Players and the Devs.
    I know it's a pointless rat hole to go down, but that makes absolutely no sense.
    How does it make no sense?
    I asked you to explain why you stated the 7*s are the way to add more longevity to the game and you came back with because top players needing to push isn't the same as players and Devs growing. Now explain to me how that answers the question, because for the life of me it makes no sense to me.
    Besides the fact that I support what DNA just said, I'll break it down.
    A new Rarity is a new acquisition, and a new X amount of Ranks to introduce. That gives X amount of time to design content, work on Rosters, make umpteen decisions, tune things, you name it.
    Adding new Ranks, Items, etc....that just adds another rung to the same acquisition. Sure, that works for people wanting to stop the process, but it doesn't give the game much to grow into. It's just prolongement. As much as people think they want that, it will get old very quickly. Not only that, it limits future content which is planned and designed much longer in advance. Given the current rate of Resource acquisition, it won't take long before the game hits a stalemate.
    The future of the game cannot be limited to working on a new Rank every 6 months to a year, and trying for the occasional OP Champ that people take interest in.
    The real issue is people think they can get to a place where they don't have to grow a Roster, and all that spells is end-game. Literally.
    While I don't agree with your assessment, I appreciate you putting together a much more coherent thought.

    I understand the concept of needing a new "rarity" to chase for the economics of the game and overall balance, but the need for it constantly to be a new star level escapes me. The overall champ pool becomes more diluted month after month and year after year, purely with the introduction of new champs. That alone makes it much harder for a new player to be able to grab the exact champions they want out of the gate and so they must "Chase" as well as existing players who want the latest and greatest. So why again is there a need for a different star?

    And then I guess you're telling me Marvel doesn't have enough characters to sustain continued additions. I will whole heartedly disagree based on 40+ years of reading comics. It is more than possible to maintain a steady influx of new champions without adding stars.

    There is no reason the systems of progression can't be expanded with these news ideas of relics and ascension, so that players are once again "chasing." Adding new ideas and concepts may not be what everyone wants, but at least it keeps things fresh. Adding star levels to the same old champs is boring, stale and lazy.
    Adding stars is not the same thing as adding new champions. At all. New champs bring in new abilities. New Stars bring in the ability to take those champs to higher power levels. The two aren't identical or replaceable by the other.
    You’re missing the point I as making. There was a statement that 7*s were needed instead of just adding levels and ranks to existing champs because players need something to chase after. I’m saying that there can be plenty of things to chase other than a new star level
    There will be. Relics and runes for the relics. Or did you not read the post lol.
    Exactly. Which means no need for 7*s
    Why does that mean there's no need for them?
    Because there are other mechanics that will accomplish the same goal things to chase and more powerful champs. This is the laziest option.
    So were 6*'s lazy when we had 5*'s and had just started maxing those out at R5?
    Honestly. Yes they were. But no one had any other ideas at the time. Just my opinion but I would love to see what relics and ascension do first and perhaps they be enough until someone comes up with another idea. Lack of creativity is always a killer in any endeavor.
  • ButtehrsButtehrs Posts: 2,898 ★★★★★

    Somebody's first 7* is going to be Karnak 😂😂😂😂😭😭😭

    Good. Can use him againt evade or autoblock champs. Every champs has thier use

    Buttehrs said:

    Somebody's first 7* is going to be Karnak 😂😂😂😂😭😭😭

    Good. Can use him againt evade or autoblock champs. Every champs has thier use just gotta think before you cry it's garbage.
    Lmao other GREAT champs can shut down autoblock and evade. He's TRASH. 😂
    Yes they can but if you don't have them and all you got is Karnak, then that's better than not having Karnak now isn't it?
  • dashisneatdashisneat Posts: 21
    I have two questions, not sure if they’ve been asked but here goes:

    1. Will 7*s be accompanied with a general increase in the supply of gold?
    2. Is there any information on when the ascension system will be added?
  • ScottyKnowsScottyKnows Posts: 94
    I thought a TB difficulty in EQ would at least come first but hey…whatever I’ll keep breezing through Cav difficulty
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 15,440 Guardian
    Mitriax said:

    They (Mike IIRC) literally said last month that it would be too soon to introduce 7 stars ...

    They aren't being added to the game yet. They won't appear in content until November, and more importantly they won't be collectable by players until next year.

    As far as I'm aware, no one from Kabam said it would be too soon to introduce them. Kabam Miike in particular wouldn't have said that, when this has been in the works for quite some time.

    The reason for announcing 7* champs now is because the entire set of progression additions - Relics, Ascension, and 7* rarity - are intended to work together. If they only announced Relics, people would get the wrong idea. People have been speculating, without foundation, that Relics either could or would replace 7* rarity. The announcement is intended in part to squash that speculation, lest Kabam be blamed for misleading the players by not correcting their incorrect speculation sooner.

    Relics expand the capabilities of our existing champions. Although some players are comparing them to gear, in some ways they are almost comparable to (MMO) pets. They have a certain upgradabiliity unto themselves, they are "equipable" to different champions, and they even have their own separate identify in certain respects (they are identified with and possess a striker attack associated with other champions). But Relics don't turn 6* champions into 7* champions and they don't seem to have as wide of a pool of collectability as champions do. They don't replace 7* champions.

    Ascension is a more active bridge between rarities, with some analog to how rank overlap between rarities acts passively to blur the lines between rarities. Ascension is that but with more player agency.

    Because these things work together, because none of them can replace the others, because they all target completely different problems and requirements, introducing them together better portrays them in that light: as three different parts of the next progression rung.

    It might have been a lot to hope for that in introducing these things together, players also got a better understanding of how progression works, so there's a better understanding of what the different progression issues are, and why the devs can't just do X instead of Y. But it is there, for those that actually want to know, and might have been hesitant to, say, take my word for it.

    As an aside, announcing the time table for when 7* champs will be added to the game as soon as that schedule was finalized is also important to ensure that players can't complain about spending all their 6* shards just before 6* dups start awarding 7* shards. They are being announced over a month in advance, and long before the next featured crystal arrives, which is when there is often a big burst of 6* shard usage.
  • Crine60Crine60 Posts: 1,099 ★★★★
    I have a few questions and concerns.

    1. As others have said, the striker functionality has never seemed to work reliably and with all the other bugs that are unable to be fixed I don't see why you would tie something like that into the relic system. I don't have faith you will be able to get relics to work correctly all the time because it seems like a lot of added complexity and to add yet another thing that doesn't work well to it is confusing. The button was always very unreliable when you used strikers before and the input problems have never been fixed.

    Since strikers are being added to some relics and relics are supposed to be tied to our champions does that mean you will finally make them unaffected by DAAR if they have additional effects like the previous ones did? The argument you used previously that because the abilities they worked with before were on nodes which apply to the opponent doesn't really work in this case since relics are on us, not the opponent.

    2. I have asked this before but never got any answers, what does potency mean in regards to abilities? You use all sorts of other words for the various values abilities can have like strength, duration, effectiveness, chance, etc.

    This is a quote from your relic post, "Attributes offer increased potency, duration, or strength to existing parts of a Champion’s kit." This seems to imply an increase in potency doesn't increase duration or strength so what exactly does potency mean in this game?

    To me increasing the potency would increase the effectiveness of something so I would have thought it would actually mean any aspect of an ability with a number to it (chance to apply, damage done, duration, etc.) would be increased but that doesn't sound like it is the case given how you use it separately from some of those things.

    3. Allowing relics to be used by defenders sounds awful (I know it is only being looked at for the future at this point but since it will increase difficulty I imagine there will be a strong push from within Kabam to implement it). There is already enough to try to work with when fighting between all the different characters' kits, nodes and in some content masteries, adding unknown relics to our opponents seems like a step too far.

    4. You say that all relics will be assessed for changes after 3 months and then can be changed at any point in the future after that. Will you be using different team members to work on relic balancing than the 1 or 2 we have for champion buffs/reworks or will we now get even less and/or worse buffs/reworks coming out of that because you will be putting them on relic rebalancing too?
  • Crine60Crine60 Posts: 1,099 ★★★★
    5. Regarding Ascension, in most of the post you made it sound like all of us could use this feature to extend the usefulness of our current champions but then at this one part you indicated it might actually be very restricted and/or "p2w". Can you please clarify if all players can use the Ascension mechanic and you used poor phrasing in this part or if you are planning on making this only available to a relatively small amount of players like top tier arena rank rewards?


  • Badass84Badass84 Posts: 271 ★★★
    Buttehrs said:

    Ok place your bets, who do you think will be the first new champion as a 7*. My bet is on a fan favorite like Adam Warlock or beta ray bill.

    Cyclops, Spider-Man Classic or Iron Man Classic. The game changing oldschool champs... 🤣
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