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Removal of Revive Farming and the Apothecary Discussion

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  • firedoodfiredood Member Posts: 7 ★
    Jefechuta said:

    firedood said:

    Jefechuta said:

    DrZola said:

    Pikolu said:

    Skunkcabbage said:

    DrZola said:

    Skunkcabbage said:

    Pikolu said:

    Skunkcabbage said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Skunkcabbage said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Fredhorst23 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Stature said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Stature said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Stature said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    People keep saying that this is some great ploy to get people to spend on Revives, but the only evidence they have is that you can buy them with Units.

    Unless there is a drastic change in content design, any new endgame content will need revives. All existing end game content also needs revives. Availability of revives has been reduced. What do you think happens?

    Realistically players only have two choices - not to attempt endgame content or buy the revives needed to complete it. Some people will not attempt it, some others will buy revives with units. Of the ones who will buy revives with units, some will have units (or grind them in arenas) while some will buy them with money.

    As a knock on effect, since fewer people will finish endgame content - including some increased spending on it - the seasonal unit deal (Jul 4th, CW, Banquet etc.) will be a bit more valuable (since endgame rewards are now available to fewer people). Again some people will grind units for this, some will buy.

    It is naive to think that this decision was made with a view that it will have a negative revenue impact for the game. The hope clearly is that endgame players used to endgame rewards will still attempt endgame content even if it requires spending (units or money). There is no way this move would have been approved if the internal analysis implied that there would be actual revenue loss from this.

    Either that or the data shows that it is a small number of players who are revive farming to that extent (5-15K players accounting for bulk of the 100-300K revives). Consequently, despite the forum noise, actual impact on playing experience of the majority of players is relatively small.
    People do not have to spend to get Revives. They never have. Units are an accumulated Resource in the game. In fact, I've heard that accusation with just about every ill-received change I can think of. Apparently anything Players don't want is a coup to milk the Players.
    Would I say that a valuable Resource is being harvested at a much higher rate that's intended? Absolutely. That undervalues it for sure. That's a bigger problem than the possibility that people might spend to get through content. That's not the sole objective.
    If they removed all Revs from the game and made them only acquirable through the Unit Store, that theory might be onto something. The reality is money only saves time in this game. People only spend when they don't want to wait.
    I don't recall saying people have to spend on revives or anything else. A free source of revives is being removed - it will either lead to lower use of revives or increase the usage of other avenues of acquiring revives. One of those avenues is spending money. So it is possible that some people will spend money on revives due to this change. I am not even claiming this is the intent - all I am saying is that if the effect were reverse and the change would be considered to impact revenues negatively, it would never be approved.

    The game wouldn't exist if it were not for people spending money on it. I cannot understand why it is a surprise to you that in a game whose entire reason for existence is the revenues it generates from selling items to players, the management team would consider that angle in any change it implements.

    What do you think it means when you say "valuable Resource is being harvested at a much higher rate that's intended?" The idea is that the resource is available at a rate that a small % of the player base can use it to meet all objectives, remaining players can use it to meet some objectives but not all. The expectation is some of the players in the second set will spend money to bridge the gap in resources. Revenues may not be the major driver for changes in the game, but it is almost always a consideration in any major step taken.
    In Layman's Terms? No one is meant to farm that many Revs from Act 3. I thought that much was clear by now.
    For free. No one is meant to farm that many revives from Act 3 (or anywhere else in the game), for free.

    Since you think there were no revenue considerations - do you think this move will lead to lesser spending? What do you think will happen if there is a sustained decline in revenues directly as a consequence of this move? I think either content will become easier or revives will be available more abundantly.
    So....because people can't farm too many Revs from Act 3 "for free", there's going to be a decline in revenue? That doesn't make logical sense to me. If people are not willing to Grind Units or spend to get them, they're not likely going to be a loss in revenue because of this change. Regardless, people can assert that it's only about money all they like, but money isn't what it's about. So they're free to spend or not.
    If it's some type of protest, then that's called entitlement. People have become so accustomed to getting more than they're supposed to that they see themselves as entitled to them. Forgive me if that sounds judgmental or somehow disrespectful, but that's what it is to me.
    This isn't a natural part of game play or progression that was put there to help Players with end-game content. That's not why they were put there.
    There may very well be some changes moving forward, sure. I suspect they won't look like an unlimited supply like the open door did. The reactions also highlight how much worse it would have become had they decided to leave things as they were. When you leak a high-value Resource in the game like that, it affects many things. Money isn't the only thing.
    Calm down there big dawg, if you're slinging words around like entitlement then be prepared to discuss why that is. Kabam folks are not stupid. They were aware when they designed the level that the rebs would spawn and would be farmable. They knew when they made autoplay and left it open on low end chapters that farming would happen. They have known for a long time that people are farming crazy revs, and even designed lots of content that took that into account. Now, they've decided they don't want that anymore, as is their right. But to place any blame on the player base for the utilization of that resource font is unfair (mind im not talking about the abusers).
    Kabams release should have said "we know we did it but we want to put out some stuff that you can't farm through, let's go ahead and fix it." Rather than act surprised and say all the extra fluff they threw out there (not to mention provided a better solution).
    See, I'm going to have to disagree there. I don't believe they designed the content to have the Revs there so that people could farm them. It's just like the Act 1 Rev, or any other thing that's taken advantage of. When it becomes a problem, it has to be changed.
    Also, yes. I used the word entitlement. If something is included for Players in Act 3 and it's being milked, that's one thing. Players will do what Players do. They look for advantages. If those Players are on a soap box about it being taken away, that's entitlement. No one is meant to farm that many Revs in the game. That goes against the actual design of the game.
    What is the design of the game you're referring to? Do you have the document you can link to with the clause that being able to farm resources breaches?

    Act 1 guaranteed revive farm years ago for 7 energy or whatever and is magnitudes away from the 3.2.6 farm - let's be realistic here guy. No way near the same cost per revive in energy and time! Planets apart and not comparable.

    You mentioned that when it becomes a problem it has to be changed - why has the 3.2.6 revive farm only now become a problem 18 months later? Didn't it become a problem in November 2021?
    It's another example of something that turned into an outlet for people it wasn't intended for and had to be changed.
    So for they designed unlimited revive farming (but exclusively for newer players only)
    It was designed to give new players an edge as they start to get used to the game. The quests were never designed to be done after they were explored.
    Why would a player not want to go back to a resource that they have an ongoing need for though? After they've explored Act 3 of course they will go back to get revives from 3.2.6 to help progress through Act 4.

    Also you don't know for a fact who designed the content and the rationale that was used, you're just assuming at this point.
    I think assuming naïveté on the part of the game team when it comes to how players play and experience mobile games is wrong. Some of them may even play this game and others when they aren’t coding MCoC.

    Most direct solution would be to lock paths once they are run or adjust the spawn rate of revives. Neither appears to have been done.

    I think we can assume the team keeps records and data on gameplay that goes well beyond what the community can access (in fact, they have told us that on more than one occasion). Armed with detailed data on quest usage, why not do something about Paragons and TBs revisiting 3.2.6 repeatedly, say, months and months ago?

    I believe the answer is Casablanca.

    Dr. Zola
    What you are saying is flawless in logic and I agree with all of it.

    My response was to whoever I replied to because I felt the need to challenge what they wrote and how they phrased it.
    I literally told you the reasoning behind their design. It was never an intended interaction that people would go back into quests because of these resource spawns. Why kabam didn't think that people would go back to farm resources is beyond me.

    In my opinion, they should just have the guaranteed one-time path rewards for these items, like what we see in act 7 and 8, then the new players still get the items and it prevents farming of them as well.
    Didn’t see your post from above—you were stating their rationale, which doesn’t seem to be grounded in basic gaming experience.

    There have been quests in the past where players could reclaim the same rewards for doing them over and over that were bugged. Not surprisingly, people ran them over and over.

    With that mentioned, if the answer is Casablanca, then the follow-up question is why did Renault decide to close Rick’s Cafe?

    Dr. Zola
    The fact people take advantage of an exploit doesnt mean that its supposed to be like that, thats why it is an exploit and not a game mechanic, thats why Kabam didnt put a Pop Up that says "Hey, if you dont seem able to go through the content you can go back and farm more resources to do so!"

    And the fact that Kabam didnt do anything for 2 years is probably because of 2 things:

    1. They didnt expect people to rerun that quest 50 times in a row in a 1-2 days.
    2. They didnt release permanent Everest Content so players didnt farm that hard because the lack of time they had, now that Kabam released permanent one they noticed that more people than intended is doing the Everest Content sooner than expected because of the revive farming, and people that shouldnt be even being able to do it since they are not the top players whom this Content is directed for.
    Jefechuta, i completely agree with your points in your last post.

    1. Kabam didn’t expect people to farm revives, when they put out content requiring 3 star champs to fight opponents with 6-digit health pools. They were simply hoping for a revenue bump while making things challenging. Im pretty sure no one could have seen it come to this debacle lol 👍🏽

    2. Also many players without roster/skills (me included) should not be doing content thats too difficult although its released without restriction to any player. If anything, everest content should have been gated to qualifying levels of progression then? I personally dont think kabam or any company would pass up on the possibility of whales or spenders buying odins to build their sub accounts, if not their main ones.
    1. Every argument about the challenges of 3* and 4* is way too dumb, if you are doing that challenges is because its the ONLY thing you have left to do, so ALL YOUR RESOURCES are destined to that challenge, so your 4h Crystals, the revives you already have by doing the 22h Missions/Quests, the Units you get by doing EQ, Missions, Quests, Arenas, etc, so you shouldnt need to go farming revives on Act 2 and 3.

    2. Thats right, probably its not capped for the people that its not good/big enough, so they can spend on Odins to do it, but there is a difference here, they are spending on the game to do content that is not meant for them so they can progress way faster than the people that doesnt spend, its called Pay 2 Fast, but it is not meant to be done because you just farmed revives on an exploit that Kabam didnt change back then because it could impact negatively to the new players whom this resources are meant for, or maybe another reason that we dont know, but it was never meant for higher progression players to be rerunning that content.

    And this is not arguable, Im just farming revives to see how many I could get WITHOUT using any units, just the refills I have and the ones I keep getting by rerunning, I've already got 40 revives in 3 to 4 hours, being very unlucky with the drop rates since I have done 5 runs in a row where I got nothing, and that happened maybe 3 times, so If youa re lucky you could get more than that.

    40 revives in 4 hours without spending anything its something that shouldnt be possible by any means, sorry for all the people that want to do content that they are not supposed to do, without spending at least, but thats the way it works and thats they way it should work, if you want something sooner than you are supposed to, you have to spend like in every other game.
    I was thinking if i should even reply, these things can go on forever. So forgive me if i stay silent after this.

    4h events, 4hr crystals etc, probably wont be enough for the average summoner. Inventory cap, low drop rates and crazy high usage.

    As for the Pay2Fast thing, i wont defend players who choose to spend beyond their means. Most of us have been there. But this greatly helps Kabam doesnt it? Players choose it, Kabam gets to continue developing the game.

    Why nerf it and offer weak revives and pots now?
    My guess would be if we get to see how many revives been farmed after the inception of Carina’s, not doing it would be theoretical lost income. But my only argument isn’t if it is or isn’t. But that players are paying and stressed. Not enjoying the game and persisting due to addiction or foolish sentiment. Reminds of a horrible relationship dont you think?
  • Just_grindingJust_grinding Member Posts: 115 ★
    The one reason to do revive farming is some of this brutal end game content (with AI that has even caused issues with many great players). All this does is drive away players actually wanting to complete carinas challenges. I get revives every day from daily challenges, but most players outline needing 30-60 revives (never mind health potions) to complete these challenges. If you have to pay for those with units, how many players will even be willing? It’s a greedy move and out of touch with the player base. @Kabam Miike
  • StatureStature Member Posts: 474 ★★★
    pseudosane said:

    Stature said:

    pseudosane said:

    Stature said:

    Ironman3000 said:

    Here's a question: Who is more likely to spend on revives a player that runs out of farmed revives at the end of a challenging run or a player who chooses not to do the content because they can't farm and know that they have to buy revives?

    It's definitely more nuanced than that. From the main post, they are implying that too many people are completing the content. The point of the move is for fewer people to attempt the content and for fewer people to compete it. Partly, this means that the content will remain fresh for longer since it will be completed at a slower pace than now. This is the game balancing part of the decision. You can only create content at a certain pace (takes time and money), if it gets completed quickly then there is an issue.

    This also means that the endgame rewards become much more valuable, since fewer people can get them. This creates an opportunity to present some of these rewards in unit deals. People may not buy revives, but they might buy rank up materials which they would otherwise need revives for to get them as rewards. They might buy more crystals to get the right counter for some challenges, so that they need fewer revives. They might buy rank up materials for those champs. Jul 4th, CW etc. deals become more valuable. There are many avenues to monetise this.
    I disagree with this take. The backlash is BECAUSE rewards will become lesser in the game. Every remotely serious player prioritizes deals currently. There won't be any massive difference in those numbers, just a reduction of players doing content, which, in the grand scheme of things, is kinda sad for a game company.

    I agree the revive farm is excessive. But the alternative is really extreme and not viable either.
    I meant that the rewards will be considered more valuable, since fewer people will get it from completing the content. The point of the change is that fewer people should complete the content, early and for free. Over time, it will be easier as stronger champs and more rank up material will be available elsewhere to be able to tackle it.

    It isn't necessarily sad that the developers want fewer people to complete content. If players clear content at a faster pace than it can be created, then that itself can lead to churn in the player base. There has to be some aspirational content for players to look forward and plan towards. It's a fine line to walk but it is required, maybe the balance has shifted a bit too much for now.
    Well, that would be true ( content wise) a few years ago. Act 5, the only way to get an r5 5* was doing content. Abyss was the only way to get a few r3 6*. But with the proliferation of deals, that is not going to really be aspirational.
    I'd think a game team would love the players to play their content. Otherwise it will be like act 6, a barely touched mode. If that ever happens, it is a design failure.
    People think that " skills" need to divide people. We aren't playing dark souls though, skills are already rewarded with lesser preparations required.
    Tldr: we are long past the phase where people can be kept out of content. If we go back there again, it would m well not be very healthy for the game in general.
    People need not be kept out of content, but they can be required to take longer to complete it. Maybe the expectation is that people who complete it by spamming revives in week one will get it done over a longer period now. Given the pace at which this type of content is released, it isn't necessarily a bad thing.

    The critical point is that now there will be somewhat of a hard cap on the amount of free revives. Plans to tackle endgame content will need to incorporate that. I agree that the 3-4* Carina challenges will not get easier, I don't know how newer players are expected to ever complete those.
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  • MackeyMackey Member Posts: 1,597 ★★★★★
    GroundedWisdom said:

    Yet one of the biggest requests on here is more challenging content for End-Gamers, and how there's nothing challenging. It's a fine line to balance.

    To be fair people will request for more endgame content and challenging content regardless of the revive situation because the fact of the matter is .. it just isn't pumped out regularly enough. Then when you think about it, it will never be enough, endgame players have everything done in game (or close to) so anything new that comes out will be fully concentrated on by these players, the players who aren't endgame players have a plethora of content to work through. Unfortunately they'll never balance that line
  • 2nd_Att3mpt2nd_Att3mpt Member Posts: 18 ★
    What time zone are kabam in? Hopefully there will be some communication incoming today from them. This thread has turned into a to and fro amongst ppl regarding pros and cons of the issue. We could really do with something from the company, with 1.5k comments it's certainly got us all fired up.
  • Manup456Manup456 Member Posts: 891 ★★★★
    I think I farmed revives twice ever and wasn’t a fan of the process very monotonous and boring but some people are relying on this as a form of completing content no wonder they are stopping it. Let’s focus on the real issues the game has and maybe you won’t need as many revives.
  • altavistaaltavista Member Posts: 1,554 ★★★★
    pseudosane said:



    Hardstopping players to delay content until it becomes irrelevant. Abyss and act6 are great examples.
    Kabam keeps nerfing Act6 but players do not want to play it. Abyss too, nobody plays it anymore. With the current climate of offers and deals, it isn't worth giving up offers over content. THAT is the problem i have. And that wont change unless Kabam changes their own trend. Unfortunately, that is the state of the game. Progress without playing content seems to be a drive, which i'm not a fan of. I hope we get a revised alternative to work through this transition.

    We haven't seen Back Issues in awhile, but it seems like Kabam could create "Back Issue Abyss" or "Back Issue Act 6" that unlock with completion of the original content (and/or progression level). That would at least encourage players to have to go through the original abyss at least once.

    It could have modernized nodes, maybe some defenders tweaked, but the rewards could be updated as well to make it enticing. That way, people who have completed Abyss at least once don't think it is unfair that a new player gets better rewards for completing the same content, and new players would have to experience the original Abyss in order to gain access to Abyss remake edition.
  • BuggyDClownBuggyDClown Member Posts: 2,445 ★★★★★
    Yesn't
  • Joker1976Joker1976 Member Posts: 808 ★★★
    edited March 2023
    Maybe watering down the quests added to the revive farming nerf could be a solution. I know of so many summoners that haven’t bothered to even touch a lot of the content, never mind because of revives but the sheer time involved. Its the same reason i have never touched abyss and now only do a completion run in TB EQ.
    With the big health pools, exploration takes way too long!!
    I did every singular EOP fight and reached almost all the top milestones,..but even some of those fights could be close to 20 minuets depending on the fight. Who wants to spend days on their device doing objectives for the final EOP run??,..or days doing a Abyss run??,..there’s many who don’t and won’t.
    It then puts that content out of reach for people only looking to put a moderate amount of time each day into the game.
    …which kinda makes zero sense.
  • MrSakuragiMrSakuragi Member Posts: 5,908 ★★★★★
    The compensation offered will equal the compensation received for BG bugs
  • THE_MISOTHE_MISO Member Posts: 90 ★

  • JefechutaJefechuta Member Posts: 1,221 ★★★★★
    firedood said:

    Jefechuta said:

    firedood said:

    Jefechuta said:

    DrZola said:

    Pikolu said:

    Skunkcabbage said:

    DrZola said:

    Skunkcabbage said:

    Pikolu said:

    Skunkcabbage said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Skunkcabbage said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Fredhorst23 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Stature said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Stature said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Stature said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    People keep saying that this is some great ploy to get people to spend on Revives, but the only evidence they have is that you can buy them with Units.

    Unless there is a drastic change in content design, any new endgame content will need revives. All existing end game content also needs revives. Availability of revives has been reduced. What do you think happens?

    Realistically players only have two choices - not to attempt endgame content or buy the revives needed to complete it. Some people will not attempt it, some others will buy revives with units. Of the ones who will buy revives with units, some will have units (or grind them in arenas) while some will buy them with money.

    As a knock on effect, since fewer people will finish endgame content - including some increased spending on it - the seasonal unit deal (Jul 4th, CW, Banquet etc.) will be a bit more valuable (since endgame rewards are now available to fewer people). Again some people will grind units for this, some will buy.

    It is naive to think that this decision was made with a view that it will have a negative revenue impact for the game. The hope clearly is that endgame players used to endgame rewards will still attempt endgame content even if it requires spending (units or money). There is no way this move would have been approved if the internal analysis implied that there would be actual revenue loss from this.

    Either that or the data shows that it is a small number of players who are revive farming to that extent (5-15K players accounting for bulk of the 100-300K revives). Consequently, despite the forum noise, actual impact on playing experience of the majority of players is relatively small.
    People do not have to spend to get Revives. They never have. Units are an accumulated Resource in the game. In fact, I've heard that accusation with just about every ill-received change I can think of. Apparently anything Players don't want is a coup to milk the Players.
    Would I say that a valuable Resource is being harvested at a much higher rate that's intended? Absolutely. That undervalues it for sure. That's a bigger problem than the possibility that people might spend to get through content. That's not the sole objective.
    If they removed all Revs from the game and made them only acquirable through the Unit Store, that theory might be onto something. The reality is money only saves time in this game. People only spend when they don't want to wait.
    I don't recall saying people have to spend on revives or anything else. A free source of revives is being removed - it will either lead to lower use of revives or increase the usage of other avenues of acquiring revives. One of those avenues is spending money. So it is possible that some people will spend money on revives due to this change. I am not even claiming this is the intent - all I am saying is that if the effect were reverse and the change would be considered to impact revenues negatively, it would never be approved.

    The game wouldn't exist if it were not for people spending money on it. I cannot understand why it is a surprise to you that in a game whose entire reason for existence is the revenues it generates from selling items to players, the management team would consider that angle in any change it implements.

    What do you think it means when you say "valuable Resource is being harvested at a much higher rate that's intended?" The idea is that the resource is available at a rate that a small % of the player base can use it to meet all objectives, remaining players can use it to meet some objectives but not all. The expectation is some of the players in the second set will spend money to bridge the gap in resources. Revenues may not be the major driver for changes in the game, but it is almost always a consideration in any major step taken.
    In Layman's Terms? No one is meant to farm that many Revs from Act 3. I thought that much was clear by now.
    For free. No one is meant to farm that many revives from Act 3 (or anywhere else in the game), for free.

    Since you think there were no revenue considerations - do you think this move will lead to lesser spending? What do you think will happen if there is a sustained decline in revenues directly as a consequence of this move? I think either content will become easier or revives will be available more abundantly.
    So....because people can't farm too many Revs from Act 3 "for free", there's going to be a decline in revenue? That doesn't make logical sense to me. If people are not willing to Grind Units or spend to get them, they're not likely going to be a loss in revenue because of this change. Regardless, people can assert that it's only about money all they like, but money isn't what it's about. So they're free to spend or not.
    If it's some type of protest, then that's called entitlement. People have become so accustomed to getting more than they're supposed to that they see themselves as entitled to them. Forgive me if that sounds judgmental or somehow disrespectful, but that's what it is to me.
    This isn't a natural part of game play or progression that was put there to help Players with end-game content. That's not why they were put there.
    There may very well be some changes moving forward, sure. I suspect they won't look like an unlimited supply like the open door did. The reactions also highlight how much worse it would have become had they decided to leave things as they were. When you leak a high-value Resource in the game like that, it affects many things. Money isn't the only thing.
    Calm down there big dawg, if you're slinging words around like entitlement then be prepared to discuss why that is. Kabam folks are not stupid. They were aware when they designed the level that the rebs would spawn and would be farmable. They knew when they made autoplay and left it open on low end chapters that farming would happen. They have known for a long time that people are farming crazy revs, and even designed lots of content that took that into account. Now, they've decided they don't want that anymore, as is their right. But to place any blame on the player base for the utilization of that resource font is unfair (mind im not talking about the abusers).
    Kabams release should have said "we know we did it but we want to put out some stuff that you can't farm through, let's go ahead and fix it." Rather than act surprised and say all the extra fluff they threw out there (not to mention provided a better solution).
    See, I'm going to have to disagree there. I don't believe they designed the content to have the Revs there so that people could farm them. It's just like the Act 1 Rev, or any other thing that's taken advantage of. When it becomes a problem, it has to be changed.
    Also, yes. I used the word entitlement. If something is included for Players in Act 3 and it's being milked, that's one thing. Players will do what Players do. They look for advantages. If those Players are on a soap box about it being taken away, that's entitlement. No one is meant to farm that many Revs in the game. That goes against the actual design of the game.
    What is the design of the game you're referring to? Do you have the document you can link to with the clause that being able to farm resources breaches?

    Act 1 guaranteed revive farm years ago for 7 energy or whatever and is magnitudes away from the 3.2.6 farm - let's be realistic here guy. No way near the same cost per revive in energy and time! Planets apart and not comparable.

    You mentioned that when it becomes a problem it has to be changed - why has the 3.2.6 revive farm only now become a problem 18 months later? Didn't it become a problem in November 2021?
    It's another example of something that turned into an outlet for people it wasn't intended for and had to be changed.
    So for they designed unlimited revive farming (but exclusively for newer players only)
    It was designed to give new players an edge as they start to get used to the game. The quests were never designed to be done after they were explored.
    Why would a player not want to go back to a resource that they have an ongoing need for though? After they've explored Act 3 of course they will go back to get revives from 3.2.6 to help progress through Act 4.

    Also you don't know for a fact who designed the content and the rationale that was used, you're just assuming at this point.
    I think assuming naïveté on the part of the game team when it comes to how players play and experience mobile games is wrong. Some of them may even play this game and others when they aren’t coding MCoC.

    Most direct solution would be to lock paths once they are run or adjust the spawn rate of revives. Neither appears to have been done.

    I think we can assume the team keeps records and data on gameplay that goes well beyond what the community can access (in fact, they have told us that on more than one occasion). Armed with detailed data on quest usage, why not do something about Paragons and TBs revisiting 3.2.6 repeatedly, say, months and months ago?

    I believe the answer is Casablanca.

    Dr. Zola
    What you are saying is flawless in logic and I agree with all of it.

    My response was to whoever I replied to because I felt the need to challenge what they wrote and how they phrased it.
    I literally told you the reasoning behind their design. It was never an intended interaction that people would go back into quests because of these resource spawns. Why kabam didn't think that people would go back to farm resources is beyond me.

    In my opinion, they should just have the guaranteed one-time path rewards for these items, like what we see in act 7 and 8, then the new players still get the items and it prevents farming of them as well.
    Didn’t see your post from above—you were stating their rationale, which doesn’t seem to be grounded in basic gaming experience.

    There have been quests in the past where players could reclaim the same rewards for doing them over and over that were bugged. Not surprisingly, people ran them over and over.

    With that mentioned, if the answer is Casablanca, then the follow-up question is why did Renault decide to close Rick’s Cafe?

    Dr. Zola
    The fact people take advantage of an exploit doesnt mean that its supposed to be like that, thats why it is an exploit and not a game mechanic, thats why Kabam didnt put a Pop Up that says "Hey, if you dont seem able to go through the content you can go back and farm more resources to do so!"

    And the fact that Kabam didnt do anything for 2 years is probably because of 2 things:

    1. They didnt expect people to rerun that quest 50 times in a row in a 1-2 days.
    2. They didnt release permanent Everest Content so players didnt farm that hard because the lack of time they had, now that Kabam released permanent one they noticed that more people than intended is doing the Everest Content sooner than expected because of the revive farming, and people that shouldnt be even being able to do it since they are not the top players whom this Content is directed for.
    Jefechuta, i completely agree with your points in your last post.

    1. Kabam didn’t expect people to farm revives, when they put out content requiring 3 star champs to fight opponents with 6-digit health pools. They were simply hoping for a revenue bump while making things challenging. Im pretty sure no one could have seen it come to this debacle lol 👍🏽

    2. Also many players without roster/skills (me included) should not be doing content thats too difficult although its released without restriction to any player. If anything, everest content should have been gated to qualifying levels of progression then? I personally dont think kabam or any company would pass up on the possibility of whales or spenders buying odins to build their sub accounts, if not their main ones.
    1. Every argument about the challenges of 3* and 4* is way too dumb, if you are doing that challenges is because its the ONLY thing you have left to do, so ALL YOUR RESOURCES are destined to that challenge, so your 4h Crystals, the revives you already have by doing the 22h Missions/Quests, the Units you get by doing EQ, Missions, Quests, Arenas, etc, so you shouldnt need to go farming revives on Act 2 and 3.

    2. Thats right, probably its not capped for the people that its not good/big enough, so they can spend on Odins to do it, but there is a difference here, they are spending on the game to do content that is not meant for them so they can progress way faster than the people that doesnt spend, its called Pay 2 Fast, but it is not meant to be done because you just farmed revives on an exploit that Kabam didnt change back then because it could impact negatively to the new players whom this resources are meant for, or maybe another reason that we dont know, but it was never meant for higher progression players to be rerunning that content.

    And this is not arguable, Im just farming revives to see how many I could get WITHOUT using any units, just the refills I have and the ones I keep getting by rerunning, I've already got 40 revives in 3 to 4 hours, being very unlucky with the drop rates since I have done 5 runs in a row where I got nothing, and that happened maybe 3 times, so If youa re lucky you could get more than that.

    40 revives in 4 hours without spending anything its something that shouldnt be possible by any means, sorry for all the people that want to do content that they are not supposed to do, without spending at least, but thats the way it works and thats they way it should work, if you want something sooner than you are supposed to, you have to spend like in every other game.
    I was thinking if i should even reply, these things can go on forever. So forgive me if i stay silent after this.

    4h events, 4hr crystals etc, probably wont be enough for the average summoner. Inventory cap, low drop rates and crazy high usage.

    As for the Pay2Fast thing, i wont defend players who choose to spend beyond their means. Most of us have been there. But this greatly helps Kabam doesnt it? Players choose it, Kabam gets to continue developing the game.

    Why nerf it and offer weak revives and pots now?
    My guess would be if we get to see how many revives been farmed after the inception of Carina’s, not doing it would be theoretical lost income. But my only argument isn’t if it is or isn’t. But that players are paying and stressed. Not enjoying the game and persisting due to addiction or foolish sentiment. Reminds of a horrible relationship dont you think?
    Why everybody avoids the fact that if you are targetting those challenges you are not or you are NOT SUPPOSED TO BE an average player.
  • YouDontNeedToKnowYouDontNeedToKnow Member Posts: 134 ★

    compensatiNO

  • IvarTheBonelessIvarTheBoneless Member Posts: 1,282 ★★★★
    Jefechuta said:

    firedood said:

    Jefechuta said:

    firedood said:

    Jefechuta said:

    DrZola said:

    Pikolu said:

    Skunkcabbage said:

    DrZola said:

    Skunkcabbage said:

    Pikolu said:

    Skunkcabbage said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Skunkcabbage said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Fredhorst23 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Stature said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Stature said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Stature said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    People keep saying that this is some great ploy to get people to spend on Revives, but the only evidence they have is that you can buy them with Units.

    Unless there is a drastic change in content design, any new endgame content will need revives. All existing end game content also needs revives. Availability of revives has been reduced. What do you think happens?

    Realistically players only have two choices - not to attempt endgame content or buy the revives needed to complete it. Some people will not attempt it, some others will buy revives with units. Of the ones who will buy revives with units, some will have units (or grind them in arenas) while some will buy them with money.

    As a knock on effect, since fewer people will finish endgame content - including some increased spending on it - the seasonal unit deal (Jul 4th, CW, Banquet etc.) will be a bit more valuable (since endgame rewards are now available to fewer people). Again some people will grind units for this, some will buy.

    It is naive to think that this decision was made with a view that it will have a negative revenue impact for the game. The hope clearly is that endgame players used to endgame rewards will still attempt endgame content even if it requires spending (units or money). There is no way this move would have been approved if the internal analysis implied that there would be actual revenue loss from this.

    Either that or the data shows that it is a small number of players who are revive farming to that extent (5-15K players accounting for bulk of the 100-300K revives). Consequently, despite the forum noise, actual impact on playing experience of the majority of players is relatively small.
    People do not have to spend to get Revives. They never have. Units are an accumulated Resource in the game. In fact, I've heard that accusation with just about every ill-received change I can think of. Apparently anything Players don't want is a coup to milk the Players.
    Would I say that a valuable Resource is being harvested at a much higher rate that's intended? Absolutely. That undervalues it for sure. That's a bigger problem than the possibility that people might spend to get through content. That's not the sole objective.
    If they removed all Revs from the game and made them only acquirable through the Unit Store, that theory might be onto something. The reality is money only saves time in this game. People only spend when they don't want to wait.
    I don't recall saying people have to spend on revives or anything else. A free source of revives is being removed - it will either lead to lower use of revives or increase the usage of other avenues of acquiring revives. One of those avenues is spending money. So it is possible that some people will spend money on revives due to this change. I am not even claiming this is the intent - all I am saying is that if the effect were reverse and the change would be considered to impact revenues negatively, it would never be approved.

    The game wouldn't exist if it were not for people spending money on it. I cannot understand why it is a surprise to you that in a game whose entire reason for existence is the revenues it generates from selling items to players, the management team would consider that angle in any change it implements.

    What do you think it means when you say "valuable Resource is being harvested at a much higher rate that's intended?" The idea is that the resource is available at a rate that a small % of the player base can use it to meet all objectives, remaining players can use it to meet some objectives but not all. The expectation is some of the players in the second set will spend money to bridge the gap in resources. Revenues may not be the major driver for changes in the game, but it is almost always a consideration in any major step taken.
    In Layman's Terms? No one is meant to farm that many Revs from Act 3. I thought that much was clear by now.
    For free. No one is meant to farm that many revives from Act 3 (or anywhere else in the game), for free.

    Since you think there were no revenue considerations - do you think this move will lead to lesser spending? What do you think will happen if there is a sustained decline in revenues directly as a consequence of this move? I think either content will become easier or revives will be available more abundantly.
    So....because people can't farm too many Revs from Act 3 "for free", there's going to be a decline in revenue? That doesn't make logical sense to me. If people are not willing to Grind Units or spend to get them, they're not likely going to be a loss in revenue because of this change. Regardless, people can assert that it's only about money all they like, but money isn't what it's about. So they're free to spend or not.
    If it's some type of protest, then that's called entitlement. People have become so accustomed to getting more than they're supposed to that they see themselves as entitled to them. Forgive me if that sounds judgmental or somehow disrespectful, but that's what it is to me.
    This isn't a natural part of game play or progression that was put there to help Players with end-game content. That's not why they were put there.
    There may very well be some changes moving forward, sure. I suspect they won't look like an unlimited supply like the open door did. The reactions also highlight how much worse it would have become had they decided to leave things as they were. When you leak a high-value Resource in the game like that, it affects many things. Money isn't the only thing.
    Calm down there big dawg, if you're slinging words around like entitlement then be prepared to discuss why that is. Kabam folks are not stupid. They were aware when they designed the level that the rebs would spawn and would be farmable. They knew when they made autoplay and left it open on low end chapters that farming would happen. They have known for a long time that people are farming crazy revs, and even designed lots of content that took that into account. Now, they've decided they don't want that anymore, as is their right. But to place any blame on the player base for the utilization of that resource font is unfair (mind im not talking about the abusers).
    Kabams release should have said "we know we did it but we want to put out some stuff that you can't farm through, let's go ahead and fix it." Rather than act surprised and say all the extra fluff they threw out there (not to mention provided a better solution).
    See, I'm going to have to disagree there. I don't believe they designed the content to have the Revs there so that people could farm them. It's just like the Act 1 Rev, or any other thing that's taken advantage of. When it becomes a problem, it has to be changed.
    Also, yes. I used the word entitlement. If something is included for Players in Act 3 and it's being milked, that's one thing. Players will do what Players do. They look for advantages. If those Players are on a soap box about it being taken away, that's entitlement. No one is meant to farm that many Revs in the game. That goes against the actual design of the game.
    What is the design of the game you're referring to? Do you have the document you can link to with the clause that being able to farm resources breaches?

    Act 1 guaranteed revive farm years ago for 7 energy or whatever and is magnitudes away from the 3.2.6 farm - let's be realistic here guy. No way near the same cost per revive in energy and time! Planets apart and not comparable.

    You mentioned that when it becomes a problem it has to be changed - why has the 3.2.6 revive farm only now become a problem 18 months later? Didn't it become a problem in November 2021?
    It's another example of something that turned into an outlet for people it wasn't intended for and had to be changed.
    So for they designed unlimited revive farming (but exclusively for newer players only)
    It was designed to give new players an edge as they start to get used to the game. The quests were never designed to be done after they were explored.
    Why would a player not want to go back to a resource that they have an ongoing need for though? After they've explored Act 3 of course they will go back to get revives from 3.2.6 to help progress through Act 4.

    Also you don't know for a fact who designed the content and the rationale that was used, you're just assuming at this point.
    I think assuming naïveté on the part of the game team when it comes to how players play and experience mobile games is wrong. Some of them may even play this game and others when they aren’t coding MCoC.

    Most direct solution would be to lock paths once they are run or adjust the spawn rate of revives. Neither appears to have been done.

    I think we can assume the team keeps records and data on gameplay that goes well beyond what the community can access (in fact, they have told us that on more than one occasion). Armed with detailed data on quest usage, why not do something about Paragons and TBs revisiting 3.2.6 repeatedly, say, months and months ago?

    I believe the answer is Casablanca.

    Dr. Zola
    What you are saying is flawless in logic and I agree with all of it.

    My response was to whoever I replied to because I felt the need to challenge what they wrote and how they phrased it.
    I literally told you the reasoning behind their design. It was never an intended interaction that people would go back into quests because of these resource spawns. Why kabam didn't think that people would go back to farm resources is beyond me.

    In my opinion, they should just have the guaranteed one-time path rewards for these items, like what we see in act 7 and 8, then the new players still get the items and it prevents farming of them as well.
    Didn’t see your post from above—you were stating their rationale, which doesn’t seem to be grounded in basic gaming experience.

    There have been quests in the past where players could reclaim the same rewards for doing them over and over that were bugged. Not surprisingly, people ran them over and over.

    With that mentioned, if the answer is Casablanca, then the follow-up question is why did Renault decide to close Rick’s Cafe?

    Dr. Zola
    The fact people take advantage of an exploit doesnt mean that its supposed to be like that, thats why it is an exploit and not a game mechanic, thats why Kabam didnt put a Pop Up that says "Hey, if you dont seem able to go through the content you can go back and farm more resources to do so!"

    And the fact that Kabam didnt do anything for 2 years is probably because of 2 things:

    1. They didnt expect people to rerun that quest 50 times in a row in a 1-2 days.
    2. They didnt release permanent Everest Content so players didnt farm that hard because the lack of time they had, now that Kabam released permanent one they noticed that more people than intended is doing the Everest Content sooner than expected because of the revive farming, and people that shouldnt be even being able to do it since they are not the top players whom this Content is directed for.
    Jefechuta, i completely agree with your points in your last post.

    1. Kabam didn’t expect people to farm revives, when they put out content requiring 3 star champs to fight opponents with 6-digit health pools. They were simply hoping for a revenue bump while making things challenging. Im pretty sure no one could have seen it come to this debacle lol 👍🏽

    2. Also many players without roster/skills (me included) should not be doing content thats too difficult although its released without restriction to any player. If anything, everest content should have been gated to qualifying levels of progression then? I personally dont think kabam or any company would pass up on the possibility of whales or spenders buying odins to build their sub accounts, if not their main ones.
    1. Every argument about the challenges of 3* and 4* is way too dumb, if you are doing that challenges is because its the ONLY thing you have left to do, so ALL YOUR RESOURCES are destined to that challenge, so your 4h Crystals, the revives you already have by doing the 22h Missions/Quests, the Units you get by doing EQ, Missions, Quests, Arenas, etc, so you shouldnt need to go farming revives on Act 2 and 3.

    2. Thats right, probably its not capped for the people that its not good/big enough, so they can spend on Odins to do it, but there is a difference here, they are spending on the game to do content that is not meant for them so they can progress way faster than the people that doesnt spend, its called Pay 2 Fast, but it is not meant to be done because you just farmed revives on an exploit that Kabam didnt change back then because it could impact negatively to the new players whom this resources are meant for, or maybe another reason that we dont know, but it was never meant for higher progression players to be rerunning that content.

    And this is not arguable, Im just farming revives to see how many I could get WITHOUT using any units, just the refills I have and the ones I keep getting by rerunning, I've already got 40 revives in 3 to 4 hours, being very unlucky with the drop rates since I have done 5 runs in a row where I got nothing, and that happened maybe 3 times, so If youa re lucky you could get more than that.

    40 revives in 4 hours without spending anything its something that shouldnt be possible by any means, sorry for all the people that want to do content that they are not supposed to do, without spending at least, but thats the way it works and thats they way it should work, if you want something sooner than you are supposed to, you have to spend like in every other game.
    I was thinking if i should even reply, these things can go on forever. So forgive me if i stay silent after this.

    4h events, 4hr crystals etc, probably wont be enough for the average summoner. Inventory cap, low drop rates and crazy high usage.

    As for the Pay2Fast thing, i wont defend players who choose to spend beyond their means. Most of us have been there. But this greatly helps Kabam doesnt it? Players choose it, Kabam gets to continue developing the game.

    Why nerf it and offer weak revives and pots now?
    My guess would be if we get to see how many revives been farmed after the inception of Carina’s, not doing it would be theoretical lost income. But my only argument isn’t if it is or isn’t. But that players are paying and stressed. Not enjoying the game and persisting due to addiction or foolish sentiment. Reminds of a horrible relationship dont you think?
    Why everybody avoids the fact that if you are targetting those challenges you are not or you are NOT SUPPOSED TO BE an average player.
    I think he's saying average skill wise. You can be an end gamer and have all content complete with a big roster and still have average skills. Not everyone can be swedeah or MSD otherwise those guys wouldn't be special.
  • MackeyMackey Member Posts: 1,597 ★★★★★
    Anybody would of thought they released them wish crystals 😂
  • JefechutaJefechuta Member Posts: 1,221 ★★★★★
    IvarTheBoneless said:

    Jefechuta said:

    firedood said:

    Jefechuta said:

    firedood said:

    Jefechuta said:

    DrZola said:

    Pikolu said:

    Skunkcabbage said:

    DrZola said:

    Skunkcabbage said:

    Pikolu said:

    Skunkcabbage said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Skunkcabbage said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Fredhorst23 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Stature said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Stature said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Stature said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    People keep saying that this is some great ploy to get people to spend on Revives, but the only evidence they have is that you can buy them with Units.

    Unless there is a drastic change in content design, any new endgame content will need revives. All existing end game content also needs revives. Availability of revives has been reduced. What do you think happens?

    Realistically players only have two choices - not to attempt endgame content or buy the revives needed to complete it. Some people will not attempt it, some others will buy revives with units. Of the ones who will buy revives with units, some will have units (or grind them in arenas) while some will buy them with money.

    As a knock on effect, since fewer people will finish endgame content - including some increased spending on it - the seasonal unit deal (Jul 4th, CW, Banquet etc.) will be a bit more valuable (since endgame rewards are now available to fewer people). Again some people will grind units for this, some will buy.

    It is naive to think that this decision was made with a view that it will have a negative revenue impact for the game. The hope clearly is that endgame players used to endgame rewards will still attempt endgame content even if it requires spending (units or money). There is no way this move would have been approved if the internal analysis implied that there would be actual revenue loss from this.

    Either that or the data shows that it is a small number of players who are revive farming to that extent (5-15K players accounting for bulk of the 100-300K revives). Consequently, despite the forum noise, actual impact on playing experience of the majority of players is relatively small.
    People do not have to spend to get Revives. They never have. Units are an accumulated Resource in the game. In fact, I've heard that accusation with just about every ill-received change I can think of. Apparently anything Players don't want is a coup to milk the Players.
    Would I say that a valuable Resource is being harvested at a much higher rate that's intended? Absolutely. That undervalues it for sure. That's a bigger problem than the possibility that people might spend to get through content. That's not the sole objective.
    If they removed all Revs from the game and made them only acquirable through the Unit Store, that theory might be onto something. The reality is money only saves time in this game. People only spend when they don't want to wait.
    I don't recall saying people have to spend on revives or anything else. A free source of revives is being removed - it will either lead to lower use of revives or increase the usage of other avenues of acquiring revives. One of those avenues is spending money. So it is possible that some people will spend money on revives due to this change. I am not even claiming this is the intent - all I am saying is that if the effect were reverse and the change would be considered to impact revenues negatively, it would never be approved.

    The game wouldn't exist if it were not for people spending money on it. I cannot understand why it is a surprise to you that in a game whose entire reason for existence is the revenues it generates from selling items to players, the management team would consider that angle in any change it implements.

    What do you think it means when you say "valuable Resource is being harvested at a much higher rate that's intended?" The idea is that the resource is available at a rate that a small % of the player base can use it to meet all objectives, remaining players can use it to meet some objectives but not all. The expectation is some of the players in the second set will spend money to bridge the gap in resources. Revenues may not be the major driver for changes in the game, but it is almost always a consideration in any major step taken.
    In Layman's Terms? No one is meant to farm that many Revs from Act 3. I thought that much was clear by now.
    For free. No one is meant to farm that many revives from Act 3 (or anywhere else in the game), for free.

    Since you think there were no revenue considerations - do you think this move will lead to lesser spending? What do you think will happen if there is a sustained decline in revenues directly as a consequence of this move? I think either content will become easier or revives will be available more abundantly.
    So....because people can't farm too many Revs from Act 3 "for free", there's going to be a decline in revenue? That doesn't make logical sense to me. If people are not willing to Grind Units or spend to get them, they're not likely going to be a loss in revenue because of this change. Regardless, people can assert that it's only about money all they like, but money isn't what it's about. So they're free to spend or not.
    If it's some type of protest, then that's called entitlement. People have become so accustomed to getting more than they're supposed to that they see themselves as entitled to them. Forgive me if that sounds judgmental or somehow disrespectful, but that's what it is to me.
    This isn't a natural part of game play or progression that was put there to help Players with end-game content. That's not why they were put there.
    There may very well be some changes moving forward, sure. I suspect they won't look like an unlimited supply like the open door did. The reactions also highlight how much worse it would have become had they decided to leave things as they were. When you leak a high-value Resource in the game like that, it affects many things. Money isn't the only thing.
    Calm down there big dawg, if you're slinging words around like entitlement then be prepared to discuss why that is. Kabam folks are not stupid. They were aware when they designed the level that the rebs would spawn and would be farmable. They knew when they made autoplay and left it open on low end chapters that farming would happen. They have known for a long time that people are farming crazy revs, and even designed lots of content that took that into account. Now, they've decided they don't want that anymore, as is their right. But to place any blame on the player base for the utilization of that resource font is unfair (mind im not talking about the abusers).
    Kabams release should have said "we know we did it but we want to put out some stuff that you can't farm through, let's go ahead and fix it." Rather than act surprised and say all the extra fluff they threw out there (not to mention provided a better solution).
    See, I'm going to have to disagree there. I don't believe they designed the content to have the Revs there so that people could farm them. It's just like the Act 1 Rev, or any other thing that's taken advantage of. When it becomes a problem, it has to be changed.
    Also, yes. I used the word entitlement. If something is included for Players in Act 3 and it's being milked, that's one thing. Players will do what Players do. They look for advantages. If those Players are on a soap box about it being taken away, that's entitlement. No one is meant to farm that many Revs in the game. That goes against the actual design of the game.
    What is the design of the game you're referring to? Do you have the document you can link to with the clause that being able to farm resources breaches?

    Act 1 guaranteed revive farm years ago for 7 energy or whatever and is magnitudes away from the 3.2.6 farm - let's be realistic here guy. No way near the same cost per revive in energy and time! Planets apart and not comparable.

    You mentioned that when it becomes a problem it has to be changed - why has the 3.2.6 revive farm only now become a problem 18 months later? Didn't it become a problem in November 2021?
    It's another example of something that turned into an outlet for people it wasn't intended for and had to be changed.
    So for they designed unlimited revive farming (but exclusively for newer players only)
    It was designed to give new players an edge as they start to get used to the game. The quests were never designed to be done after they were explored.
    Why would a player not want to go back to a resource that they have an ongoing need for though? After they've explored Act 3 of course they will go back to get revives from 3.2.6 to help progress through Act 4.

    Also you don't know for a fact who designed the content and the rationale that was used, you're just assuming at this point.
    I think assuming naïveté on the part of the game team when it comes to how players play and experience mobile games is wrong. Some of them may even play this game and others when they aren’t coding MCoC.

    Most direct solution would be to lock paths once they are run or adjust the spawn rate of revives. Neither appears to have been done.

    I think we can assume the team keeps records and data on gameplay that goes well beyond what the community can access (in fact, they have told us that on more than one occasion). Armed with detailed data on quest usage, why not do something about Paragons and TBs revisiting 3.2.6 repeatedly, say, months and months ago?

    I believe the answer is Casablanca.

    Dr. Zola
    What you are saying is flawless in logic and I agree with all of it.

    My response was to whoever I replied to because I felt the need to challenge what they wrote and how they phrased it.
    I literally told you the reasoning behind their design. It was never an intended interaction that people would go back into quests because of these resource spawns. Why kabam didn't think that people would go back to farm resources is beyond me.

    In my opinion, they should just have the guaranteed one-time path rewards for these items, like what we see in act 7 and 8, then the new players still get the items and it prevents farming of them as well.
    Didn’t see your post from above—you were stating their rationale, which doesn’t seem to be grounded in basic gaming experience.

    There have been quests in the past where players could reclaim the same rewards for doing them over and over that were bugged. Not surprisingly, people ran them over and over.

    With that mentioned, if the answer is Casablanca, then the follow-up question is why did Renault decide to close Rick’s Cafe?

    Dr. Zola
    The fact people take advantage of an exploit doesnt mean that its supposed to be like that, thats why it is an exploit and not a game mechanic, thats why Kabam didnt put a Pop Up that says "Hey, if you dont seem able to go through the content you can go back and farm more resources to do so!"

    And the fact that Kabam didnt do anything for 2 years is probably because of 2 things:

    1. They didnt expect people to rerun that quest 50 times in a row in a 1-2 days.
    2. They didnt release permanent Everest Content so players didnt farm that hard because the lack of time they had, now that Kabam released permanent one they noticed that more people than intended is doing the Everest Content sooner than expected because of the revive farming, and people that shouldnt be even being able to do it since they are not the top players whom this Content is directed for.
    Jefechuta, i completely agree with your points in your last post.

    1. Kabam didn’t expect people to farm revives, when they put out content requiring 3 star champs to fight opponents with 6-digit health pools. They were simply hoping for a revenue bump while making things challenging. Im pretty sure no one could have seen it come to this debacle lol 👍🏽

    2. Also many players without roster/skills (me included) should not be doing content thats too difficult although its released without restriction to any player. If anything, everest content should have been gated to qualifying levels of progression then? I personally dont think kabam or any company would pass up on the possibility of whales or spenders buying odins to build their sub accounts, if not their main ones.
    1. Every argument about the challenges of 3* and 4* is way too dumb, if you are doing that challenges is because its the ONLY thing you have left to do, so ALL YOUR RESOURCES are destined to that challenge, so your 4h Crystals, the revives you already have by doing the 22h Missions/Quests, the Units you get by doing EQ, Missions, Quests, Arenas, etc, so you shouldnt need to go farming revives on Act 2 and 3.

    2. Thats right, probably its not capped for the people that its not good/big enough, so they can spend on Odins to do it, but there is a difference here, they are spending on the game to do content that is not meant for them so they can progress way faster than the people that doesnt spend, its called Pay 2 Fast, but it is not meant to be done because you just farmed revives on an exploit that Kabam didnt change back then because it could impact negatively to the new players whom this resources are meant for, or maybe another reason that we dont know, but it was never meant for higher progression players to be rerunning that content.

    And this is not arguable, Im just farming revives to see how many I could get WITHOUT using any units, just the refills I have and the ones I keep getting by rerunning, I've already got 40 revives in 3 to 4 hours, being very unlucky with the drop rates since I have done 5 runs in a row where I got nothing, and that happened maybe 3 times, so If youa re lucky you could get more than that.

    40 revives in 4 hours without spending anything its something that shouldnt be possible by any means, sorry for all the people that want to do content that they are not supposed to do, without spending at least, but thats the way it works and thats they way it should work, if you want something sooner than you are supposed to, you have to spend like in every other game.
    I was thinking if i should even reply, these things can go on forever. So forgive me if i stay silent after this.

    4h events, 4hr crystals etc, probably wont be enough for the average summoner. Inventory cap, low drop rates and crazy high usage.

    As for the Pay2Fast thing, i wont defend players who choose to spend beyond their means. Most of us have been there. But this greatly helps Kabam doesnt it? Players choose it, Kabam gets to continue developing the game.

    Why nerf it and offer weak revives and pots now?
    My guess would be if we get to see how many revives been farmed after the inception of Carina’s, not doing it would be theoretical lost income. But my only argument isn’t if it is or isn’t. But that players are paying and stressed. Not enjoying the game and persisting due to addiction or foolish sentiment. Reminds of a horrible relationship dont you think?
    Why everybody avoids the fact that if you are targetting those challenges you are not or you are NOT SUPPOSED TO BE an average player.
    I think he's saying average skill wise. You can be an end gamer and have all content complete with a big roster and still have average skills. Not everyone can be swedeah or MSD otherwise those guys wouldn't be special.
    Yeah but if you have average skills and you did all the content then you either farmed a lot of units or spent money, so you would do the same process for this Content, but you would have to farm more units since its harder content.

    Idk, Im okay with this modus operandi, it makes sense
  • StatureStature Member Posts: 474 ★★★
    pseudosane said:

    Hardstopping players to delay content until it becomes irrelevant. Abyss and act6 are great examples.
    Kabam keeps nerfing Act6 but players do not want to play it. Abyss too, nobody plays it anymore. With the current climate of offers and deals, it isn't worth giving up offers over content. THAT is the problem i have. And that wont change unless Kabam changes their own trend. Unfortunately, that is the state of the game. Progress without playing content seems to be a drive, which i'm not a fan of. I hope we get a revised alternative to work through this transition.

    Not arguing against any of that. It just appears that the internal position currently is that too many people were able to complete the latest endgame content and revives were the reasons for that. If the balance is too far off due to this change, that might be rectified too. Difficult to make a judgement on this without seeing what new content will look like and if there is any changes to the older content down the line.
  • Mattj286Mattj286 Member Posts: 6 ★
    Why everybody avoids the fact that if you are targetting those challenges you are not or you are NOT SUPPOSED TO BE an average player.

    No one doing it is an average player we’re all saying far into the game, with very good rosters and abilities. EoP isn’t only for the top 0.01% it’s for everyone who is paragon
  • JefechutaJefechuta Member Posts: 1,221 ★★★★★
    edited March 2023
    Mattj286 said:

    Why everybody avoids the fact that if you are targetting those challenges you are not or you are NOT SUPPOSED TO BE an average player.

    No one doing it is an average player we’re all saying far into the game, with very good rosters and abilities. EoP isn’t only for the top 0.01% it’s for everyone who is paragon

    Yeah, but not every Paragon is supposed to be able to do it, Im Paragon and right now Im not able to do it because I dont have the best champs for do it the most efficient way, should I just farm 100 revives to do it just because Im in hurry? No, I shouldnt be able to do that, I should get more shards, focus on arenas to get those Champs if they are in them and focus on Class Crystals and Featured ones to get the right champs and then do the run.

    Its just about being comprehensive, right now both Kabam and players are being selfish

    And by the way, there are a lot of Paragon players that shouldnt be Paragon because they dont have skills/roster that a Paragon player should have since its a lot easier to get the requirementes right now than it was before.
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  • pseudosanepseudosane Member, Guardian Posts: 4,015 Guardian
    Stature said:

    pseudosane said:

    Hardstopping players to delay content until it becomes irrelevant. Abyss and act6 are great examples.
    Kabam keeps nerfing Act6 but players do not want to play it. Abyss too, nobody plays it anymore. With the current climate of offers and deals, it isn't worth giving up offers over content. THAT is the problem i have. And that wont change unless Kabam changes their own trend. Unfortunately, that is the state of the game. Progress without playing content seems to be a drive, which i'm not a fan of. I hope we get a revised alternative to work through this transition.

    Not arguing against any of that. It just appears that the internal position currently is that too many people were able to complete the latest endgame content and revives were the reasons for that. If the balance is too far off due to this change, that might be rectified too. Difficult to make a judgement on this without seeing what new content will look like and if there is any changes to the older content down the line.
    I dont think it was the quantity of those completing it. I think it was just 'how fast' they did it. Which, i could agree with.
  • MoosetiptronicMoosetiptronic Member Posts: 2,166 ★★★★
    edited March 2023
    Jefechuta said:

    Mattj286 said:

    Why everybody avoids the fact that if you are targetting those challenges you are not or you are NOT SUPPOSED TO BE an average player.

    And by the way, there are a lot of Paragon players that shouldnt be Paragon because they dont have skills/roster that a Paragon player should have since its a lot easier to get the requirementes right now than it was before.

    @Jefechuta I have 11 r4s (and could take up 3 more before running it) 37 r3s (plus 19 whole t5cc unused) and had the best options for every EOP Carina at R3 or r4 except for Spiderman 2099 and galan who I did not have at all as well as stealthy at R2 and crossbones at R2 - I could have r3'd both.

    I took 4 champs to R3 for the challenges.

    I think I have close to the maximum possible r4s without doing map 8, masters war or whaling.

    How much more prepared, did I need to be?

    Or, as @pseudosane mentions, do we just go back to ignoring end game content, as by the time our rosters can do it with minimal revives, it won't be worth it anymore? So we just buy rewards instead of playing for them?
This discussion has been closed.