July 4th Sales and Game Economy

135

Comments

  • Lovejoy72Lovejoy72 Member Posts: 1,858 ★★★★
    DL864 said:

    The whole crux of this debate is a misconception. There is no game economy that ensures people will go head-to-head with people who spend large amounts of money. There is nothing to balance there. There never was. This idea that Offers are somehow going to throw the game out of whack is not accurate.
    The

    Lovejoy72 said:

    DL864 said:

    Lovejoy72 said:

    _Pez_ said:

    vz2fbx said:

    With a lot of explanation about BG by many, saying that the game will be more divided between FTP and whales. The point is that game mode is competitive. That's why people spend their money to grow their roster to be more competitive there. FTP also love to play there because of rewards. So, what is the point to make life the same between people who are willing to spend some money and the people who don't?

    And the people who don't want to spend are complaining that the deals are too good, but, bottom line is they still don't even think about purchasing anything. Strange!!

    @_Pez_
    This is real irony, you are saying a game mode is competitive and then you say people spend more to remain competitive.
    Do you mean this is a competition of credit card 😂.

    Either a mode is pay to win or competitive. It can't be both.
    Damn you ought to tell most sports competitions in the world this that don't have a salary/spending cap..... Wonder how Leicester won the premier League a few seasons ago.

    Of course it can be both, everything in this game is a function of skill, luck and roster strength. More skill can make up for lack of roster strength....and better roster can make up for lack of skill.

    I spend a middle amount, I buy when I see a good deal and I feel like it. There is just a lot of whining here by people who are getting a free product, not contributing financially to the game, and yet could still achieve most of what the game has to offer but think it's unfair just because some other people can get more. Everything becomes available to those who wait.
    Let's assume there was no F2P players from the beginning, which is like 97~98% of people. Do you really believe this game would have become this big and do you think people(spenders) would have spent money that they are spending?
    So, basically what kabam is doing used F2P to create their big player base by creating a game which was balanced for both spenders and f2p.
    Now, once they have big player base they basically thinks they can ignore the f2p section and go on with it.
    There is either two thing might be happening:
    1. New management is very short sighted.
    2. There might be a possibility they already know game is not gonna be alive for long now so they are basically taking whatever they can.
    Note: based on their current content this year they have released only 8.2, also when I was playing beta for 8.3 there was no thought on the nodes all similar and also cut to half. Also, with numbers of bugs in new season in BG each month along with bugs in almost all new released champs, there might not be enough employees remaining to sustain the game.
    It doesn’t really address their point. And that point is that very very few sports in the world have spending caps. Football doesn’t (aside from American NFL), God only knows how much china spends on the Olympics, combat sports don’t. But what there isn’t is a free to play version of any of those things. If you want to compete in a sport that has any kind of real prize, you’re going to spend some money.
    Combat sports is not a team sport 🙄. Every major sport in the US has salary caps. The Olympics is another terrible example. Now I spend and spent on the event but it was definitely a bit much. I've played since this game was 7 months old and this is by far the biggest shift I have ever seen after a sale. We won't really know how this will effect the overall balance of the contest for a month or so. The only effects are in bgs right now. I'm gonna wait and see but I really don't feel this was a good direction for the game.
    Team sports? Are BGs a team sport? And the US is currently an aberration on that matter.
    You have a team of champions and an alliance. The US has some of the most popular sports but ok. I don't know why you are even comparing a moble game to sports anyways. This was about game economy and its changed period. Imo I think it's gonna to be bad but it's more of a wait and see.
    It wasn’t my point. It was someone else’s, and in reference to someone’s assertion that there was a competitive issue because of spending. And the point was that a great deal of things considered competitive allow, or even encourage, spending. And since this is a weird discussion about an artificial economy, inside of a mobile game, trying to contextualize it with an analogous phenomenon in the real world is natural, but imperfect.
  • HungaryHippoHungaryHippo Member Posts: 1,036 ★★★★
    edited July 2023
    vz2fbx said:

    With a lot of explanation about BG by many, saying that the game will be more divided between FTP and whales. The point is that game mode is competitive. That's why people spend their money to grow their roster to be more competitive there. FTP also love to play there because of rewards. So, what is the point to make life the same between people who are willing to spend some money and the people who don't?

    And the people who don't want to spend are complaining that the deals are too good, but, bottom line is they still don't even think about purchasing anything. Strange!!

    Whiny freeloaders will whine. Also if you’re not in GC, you probably should refrain from whining and go get better at the game.

    And yeah I bought all the 4-5 gems and haven’t even opened them. Still made it to GC in week one as usual with my single Carina r5 Herc.
  • doctorbdoctorb Member Posts: 1,843 ★★★★
    vz2fbx said:

    Searmenis said:

    The gap between f2p and spending is not something new. We all agree, or at least most of us, that the game must reward the player who supports it with money, and make it continue running etc. But.
    The problem this time, is that there s a new unreachable gap between level of spending. Before this set of ridiculous offers, people who spend, a nice amount, about 1/3 or half of the old set of offers, were rewarded, could keep up with whales, and be competitive. That's over now. Even if you spend money it s for nothing if not purchasing everything.

    Is this still a game?

    Playing this game for years. I have never seen FTp showing their appreciation towards people who pay to play. Always same old complaint in very deal that "this time is not the same. It will widen the playing ground".

    In fact, Kabam never restricts any player to have access to those deals. If it is so good, why don't FTP starts buying the deal.

    Without even considering buying the deal but complaining that the deal is too good for players who pay.

    If the deal is not attractive, who is going to buy? Why don't you buy too?

    This is such a ridiculous complain.....
    Reminds me of the passage in the Bible whereby Jesus rebukes the pharisees and sadduces by saying their hypocrites cause they don't enter the kingdom of heaven and they don't allow anyone to enter also.

    So, too, with FTP players. They don't buy these deals (no matter how great kabam makes them) and they don't want anyone to buy them either. These July 4th deals are, in my opinion, great!!
  • doctorbdoctorb Member Posts: 1,843 ★★★★
    Chobbly said:

    vz2fbx said:

    The issue here is FTP are complaining about whales have too good deals. Although they could buy, they won't.

    The point is they want more free stuffs that the whales get, but they don't want to spend money.

    Pure absurdity.

    Your point is flawed, and not just on the assumption that players that are FTP are simply choosing not to buy. Some can't, or can't afford to right now.

    I have not seen one post saying that F2P should get the same benefits as those who pay. There should be an advantage to those who support the game financially. Otherwise, it won't exist.

    The fundamental difference is that comparatively the offers this year are substantially better than any other year - and especially for the Odins. This widens the gap considerably - more than it ever has. And free to play and low spenders alike are troubled by that.

    Sometimes we could all do with seeing things from the other person's side.
    You may feel this year's offer is too good, someone may feel it's not good enough.
  • Lovejoy72Lovejoy72 Member Posts: 1,858 ★★★★
    Bluestone said:

    Logged in today , got an amazing rewards of 2% T5CC crystal and 400 cav shards , from monthly paragon calendar .
    Then i went to check the deals ... WT#.
    This game is broken in every way.

    I do think it strongly argues that a new progression title is coming soon. And I’m still waiting for the details on the “best free to play event ever” that was announced in a live stream? Maybe that will help settle some misgivings.
  • HungaryHippoHungaryHippo Member Posts: 1,036 ★★★★
    doctorb said:

    vz2fbx said:

    Searmenis said:

    The gap between f2p and spending is not something new. We all agree, or at least most of us, that the game must reward the player who supports it with money, and make it continue running etc. But.
    The problem this time, is that there s a new unreachable gap between level of spending. Before this set of ridiculous offers, people who spend, a nice amount, about 1/3 or half of the old set of offers, were rewarded, could keep up with whales, and be competitive. That's over now. Even if you spend money it s for nothing if not purchasing everything.

    Is this still a game?

    Playing this game for years. I have never seen FTp showing their appreciation towards people who pay to play. Always same old complaint in very deal that "this time is not the same. It will widen the playing ground".

    In fact, Kabam never restricts any player to have access to those deals. If it is so good, why don't FTP starts buying the deal.

    Without even considering buying the deal but complaining that the deal is too good for players who pay.

    If the deal is not attractive, who is going to buy? Why don't you buy too?

    This is such a ridiculous complain.....
    Reminds me of the passage in the Bible whereby Jesus rebukes the pharisees and sadduces by saying their hypocrites cause they don't enter the kingdom of heaven and they don't allow anyone to enter also.

    So, too, with FTP players. They don't buy these deals (no matter how great kabam makes them) and they don't want anyone to buy them either. These July 4th deals are, in my opinion, great!!
    Excellent way of looking at it. What surprises me is how shamelessly they say this stuff.

    Meanwhile they revive farmed to get whatever they have and now that it’s gone, they want to still hold the advantage. Freeloaders gonna freeload.
  • TerminatrixTerminatrix Member Posts: 2,948 ★★★★★

    I’ll try not to sound too whiny especially considering this is all pictures on a screen, but I can’t help but feel as if this company is a bit short sighted. The way this game functioned at one point was you could either invest a large amount of time to acquire resources, or you could invest very little or no time and get the same or slightly better resources. At this point I think it’s safe to say that is no longer the case. After this most recent “Fun in the Sun” Sale there is absolutely no way a free to play player could have anywhere near the roster of a paid player even if they were dedicating 24 hours of their day towards acquiring resources and stockpiling units. I’m not saying don’t make deals as tempting or well valued as they are, but maybe someway of putting in the work to get at least somewhat close to what you can pay for? Right now there is LITERALLY nothing I can do in this game to get anywhere near even half the amount of Rank 5 6 star champions as someone could’ve just gotten from swiping their credit card. I love this game, I would hate to quit playing it… but at this point playing it feels like an unnecessary step. Click, swipe, win.

    Myself and another expressed similar concerns. This was simply a poor business decision by kabam.

    4th of July tiered unit offers concern

    https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/340144/4th-of-july-tiered-unit-offers-concern#latest


    48 hour timer on tiered offers

    https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/340196/48-hour-timer-on-tiered-offers#latest
  • doctorbdoctorb Member Posts: 1,843 ★★★★
    Bugmat78 said:

    vz2fbx said:

    Chobbly said:

    Searmenis said:

    The gap between f2p and spending is not something new. We all agree, or at least most of us, that the game must reward the player who supports it with money, and make it continue running etc. But.
    The problem this time, is that there s a new unreachable gap between level of spending. Before this set of ridiculous offers, people who spend, a nice amount, about 1/3 or half of the old set of offers, were rewarded, could keep up with whales, and be competitive. That's over now. Even if you spend money it s for nothing if not purchasing everything.

    Is this still a game?

    I think that's something which hasn't been mentioned much. While the gap between f2p and whale is arguably bigger than it has ever been with these sales (and yes I know there a version of this conversation every year) the stretch also applies to casual spenders who could maybe afford a single Tony Stark's briefcase, compared to someone who can buy all the Odins and have a party on the Summoner's Market too.

    I think one of the biggest issues is actually Battleground, and the Battlegrounds Store. If skill is roughly equivalent, then the better roster will win. The Battlegrounds store is the best value in the game, and because of this being largely enabled by a competitive game mode those who can't compete have to make do with leftovers.

    For the game to survive, there needs to be a reason for whales to spend the cash. F2P players are basically getting something for free, and licensing established properties certainly isn't cheap. They will be unlikely to compete at the top table, but will at least were able to compete at the lower tables so to speak.

    But... this year the Unit Store offers are immense. For those who can buy multiple Odins, they are getting a great, great deal. When you add that to the confusing way that the Tiered Resource bundles work, then I can see why f2p and casuals are a bit grumpy, off the back of other changes this year like the farming nerds.

    While the gap between big spenders and f2p/casuals needs to exist, it feels like these offers have stretched that gap a little too much.
    As I said, if the offers are good, you can purchase as well, right? There is no restriction though.

    It is pretty strange. Rather than seeing someone complaining that the deals are not good enough. We just see people who has no intention to spend anything complaining that the deals are too good.
    I spent (several hundred - and agree with the person you quoted. The issue is not that there is a gap, or that the deals maintain the gap, but that they have increased the gap at a ratio not experienced before. I went from 1 to 9 6r5 and did not get even half of what was on offer.

    The problem as he said is that kabam seem to have put all their eggs in the BGs basket, and to compete in BGs it's all about roster. AQ/glory store hasn't ben properly updated in over 7 months, AW/loyalty the same. Black ISO is a bit of a waste of time.

    Without free and/or casual spending players there are no whales (who would they compete with but themselves?). Without whales there is no game.

    Kabam need to find a better balance than the one they struck this past weekend especially with the $99 deals. The impact was immediately felt in BGs in a season where there is no AW ,and AQ almost seems pointless based on the rewards.

    You want a gap but one that encourages f2p and casual to keep competing and whales to keep spending. Where we are is a bit precarious.

    Let's see what they do in the next couple months to address this imbalance.
    Again, people's opinion on the offers r relative. Some feel it is just right, some feel it's too good, some feel it's not good enough.
  • SpaddictedSpaddicted Member Posts: 222 ★★
    As someone already said, this game is extremely friendly to FTPs, I am ftp and I got 4 rank 5 6* from the event which is amazing to me.

    I grinned 30k units for the July deal with a reasonable amount of time not crazy. I even felt bored sometimes because I finished arena grind so quickly that I have nothing else to do.

    So feel grateful for what Kabam offered to you. My only concern is that the game move to 7* so quickly that in the near future they have to think about 8*.
  • RetroRocksRetroRocks Member Posts: 68
    I feel there is a slight issue with the knock on effect of so many rank up materials in the offers this year.
    It devalues the more important content. Especially if it puts more value on arena than other content ie. It teaches me if I have limited time I can get potentially better rewards by grinding arena for units than exploring end-game content such as Act 8 , everest content etc
    ie. In an extreme case why bother exploring Act 8 if you get more reward for unit grinding. If so, then kabam put hours of work into making new Story content and it'll reduce in player importance, which is a shame as it deserves to get played, and personally I consider it more fun and varied to play than just grinding.

    I guess it can all change in a week or 2 when the much needed Act 8.3 drops with (hopefully) mega rewards or a Glory store revamp etc.

    I wonder if it's all an intentional timing thing as the game economy shifts : That kabam made the offers look great by holding back other rewards for a few months, then with an incoming store and quest update when the offers have cleared, everything falls back into balance as resources suddenly become more plentiful?
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,566 ★★★★★

    vz2fbx said:

    The issue here is FTP are complaining about whales have too good deals. Although they could buy, they won't.

    The point is they want more free stuffs that the whales get, but they don't want to spend money.

    Pure absurdity.

    no, you dont understand the problem.
    i'm no f2p, i actually did spend a couple odins on the deals myself, and got most, if not all of the unit deals on top of that, being a big arena grinder.
    That being said, I'm also a map8 top 45 player, BGs alliance top 50 player, and a masters top10 player. Being in these three brackets for multiple seasons consecutively hasnt provided EVEN A FRACTION of what was offered in these deals. Playing the top game modes for a long time hasnt netted anything of this magnitude. If playing the game at the highest levels dont give these resources, why are random summoners able to drop cash and race upward for doing absolutely nothing?
    That is where this sentiment is coming from. I have no problems of there being monetary benefits, my own account is multitudes smaller than those in my alliance, which includes some notable Youtubers. But being able to drop a few hundreds and race past what all gamemodes offer, in just a few minutes, left a bad taste in my mouth.
    That's really been the way of it, though. As far as I can remember. First it's given to the spenders, then it becomes more available in content. It's the same with the Gifting Event.
    All I see that as is an indication the content will have more material in the near future.
  • Bugmat78Bugmat78 Member Posts: 2,380 ★★★★★
    edited July 2023
    doctorb said:

    Bugmat78 said:

    vz2fbx said:

    Chobbly said:

    Searmenis said:

    The gap between f2p and spending is not something new. We all agree, or at least most of us, that the game must reward the player who supports it with money, and make it continue running etc. But.
    The problem this time, is that there s a new unreachable gap between level of spending. Before this set of ridiculous offers, people who spend, a nice amount, about 1/3 or half of the old set of offers, were rewarded, could keep up with whales, and be competitive. That's over now. Even if you spend money it s for nothing if not purchasing everything.

    Is this still a game?

    I think that's something which hasn't been mentioned much. While the gap between f2p and whale is arguably bigger than it has ever been with these sales (and yes I know there a version of this conversation every year) the stretch also applies to casual spenders who could maybe afford a single Tony Stark's briefcase, compared to someone who can buy all the Odins and have a party on the Summoner's Market too.

    I think one of the biggest issues is actually Battleground, and the Battlegrounds Store. If skill is roughly equivalent, then the better roster will win. The Battlegrounds store is the best value in the game, and because of this being largely enabled by a competitive game mode those who can't compete have to make do with leftovers.

    For the game to survive, there needs to be a reason for whales to spend the cash. F2P players are basically getting something for free, and licensing established properties certainly isn't cheap. They will be unlikely to compete at the top table, but will at least were able to compete at the lower tables so to speak.

    But... this year the Unit Store offers are immense. For those who can buy multiple Odins, they are getting a great, great deal. When you add that to the confusing way that the Tiered Resource bundles work, then I can see why f2p and casuals are a bit grumpy, off the back of other changes this year like the farming nerds.

    While the gap between big spenders and f2p/casuals needs to exist, it feels like these offers have stretched that gap a little too much.
    As I said, if the offers are good, you can purchase as well, right? There is no restriction though.

    It is pretty strange. Rather than seeing someone complaining that the deals are not good enough. We just see people who has no intention to spend anything complaining that the deals are too good.
    I spent (several hundred - and agree with the person you quoted. The issue is not that there is a gap, or that the deals maintain the gap, but that they have increased the gap at a ratio not experienced before. I went from 1 to 9 6r5 and did not get even half of what was on offer.

    The problem as he said is that kabam seem to have put all their eggs in the BGs basket, and to compete in BGs it's all about roster. AQ/glory store hasn't ben properly updated in over 7 months, AW/loyalty the same. Black ISO is a bit of a waste of time.

    Without free and/or casual spending players there are no whales (who would they compete with but themselves?). Without whales there is no game.

    Kabam need to find a better balance than the one they struck this past weekend especially with the $99 deals. The impact was immediately felt in BGs in a season where there is no AW ,and AQ almost seems pointless based on the rewards.

    You want a gap but one that encourages f2p and casual to keep competing and whales to keep spending. Where we are is a bit precarious.

    Let's see what they do in the next couple months to address this imbalance.
    Again, people's opinion on the offers r relative. Some feel it is just right, some feel it's too good, some feel it's not good enough.
    Everything is relative. What's not is that the gap in what has been offered via cash vs what is by units is larger/more than in previous events. The fact you can get each deal 2 more times than what was possible a year ago (from 3 to 4, and now 5 with the web store within a year) alone proves this.

    The impact of that has been more drastic because of the absence of in-line-with-the-times updates in several game modes outside of BGs where the most focus in terms of rewards are, and where the roster gap is very influential.
  • xman69xxman69x Member Posts: 51
    Guys….. we need to stop saying “ spenders and FTP”. I will explain: this was only one day where Kabam takes money, but there is 364 more days, and what you think how they make money all other days…..well: from us guys , people like me that buys sigil, monthly unit offer, daily paragon etc….so I’m not FTP!
    And what Kabam did on this day for us ( majority of community)- NOTHING…and what now?….easy… a see that even I spend Kabam will do nothing for me-us…so- I will not spend anymore…lol… and if we - like me - stop to do that …. Lol…. It will hurt….
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,566 ★★★★★

    vz2fbx said:

    The issue here is FTP are complaining about whales have too good deals. Although they could buy, they won't.

    The point is they want more free stuffs that the whales get, but they don't want to spend money.

    Pure absurdity.

    no, you dont understand the problem.
    i'm no f2p, i actually did spend a couple odins on the deals myself, and got most, if not all of the unit deals on top of that, being a big arena grinder.
    That being said, I'm also a map8 top 45 player, BGs alliance top 50 player, and a masters top10 player. Being in these three brackets for multiple seasons consecutively hasnt provided EVEN A FRACTION of what was offered in these deals. Playing the top game modes for a long time hasnt netted anything of this magnitude. If playing the game at the highest levels dont give these resources, why are random summoners able to drop cash and race upward for doing absolutely nothing?
    That is where this sentiment is coming from. I have no problems of there being monetary benefits, my own account is multitudes smaller than those in my alliance, which includes some notable Youtubers. But being able to drop a few hundreds and race past what all gamemodes offer, in just a few minutes, left a bad taste in my mouth.
    That's really been the way of it, though. As far as I can remember. First it's given to the spenders, then it becomes more available in content. It's the same with the Gifting Event.
    All I see that as is an indication the content will have more material in the near future.
    Yes it definitely has been the way. And thats exactly what ive been hoping for, more mats in the future. This though, imo, is a unnecessary speeding up of the economy. What long term this translates to, hopefully isnt something harmful.
    I don't know if it's unnecessary or not. Eventually we'll be looking at 7* R3s. There's always a plan further down.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,566 ★★★★★
    Not to mention Ascension.
  • EliOrSomethingEliOrSomething Member Posts: 115 ★★

    doctorb said:

    vz2fbx said:

    Searmenis said:

    The gap between f2p and spending is not something new. We all agree, or at least most of us, that the game must reward the player who supports it with money, and make it continue running etc. But.
    The problem this time, is that there s a new unreachable gap between level of spending. Before this set of ridiculous offers, people who spend, a nice amount, about 1/3 or half of the old set of offers, were rewarded, could keep up with whales, and be competitive. That's over now. Even if you spend money it s for nothing if not purchasing everything.

    Is this still a game?

    Playing this game for years. I have never seen FTp showing their appreciation towards people who pay to play. Always same old complaint in very deal that "this time is not the same. It will widen the playing ground".

    In fact, Kabam never restricts any player to have access to those deals. If it is so good, why don't FTP starts buying the deal.

    Without even considering buying the deal but complaining that the deal is too good for players who pay.

    If the deal is not attractive, who is going to buy? Why don't you buy too?

    This is such a ridiculous complain.....
    Reminds me of the passage in the Bible whereby Jesus rebukes the pharisees and sadduces by saying their hypocrites cause they don't enter the kingdom of heaven and they don't allow anyone to enter also.

    So, too, with FTP players. They don't buy these deals (no matter how great kabam makes them) and they don't want anyone to buy them either. These July 4th deals are, in my opinion, great!!
    Excellent way of looking at it. What surprises me is how shamelessly they say this stuff.

    Meanwhile they revive farmed to get whatever they have and now that it’s gone, they want to still hold the advantage. Freeloaders gonna freeload.
    Get back to us when you understand the definition of a freeloader.
    Fr lol, a freeloader is some one who as you can probably guess by the word wants rewards for FREE, i never asked for that, money isn’t the only way to “get things” though, time is money. So if I put in the time equivalent of your money shouldn’t I get what you paid for? Thanks for agreeing World Breaker lol
  • EliOrSomethingEliOrSomething Member Posts: 115 ★★

    doctorb said:

    vz2fbx said:

    Searmenis said:

    The gap between f2p and spending is not something new. We all agree, or at least most of us, that the game must reward the player who supports it with money, and make it continue running etc. But.
    The problem this time, is that there s a new unreachable gap between level of spending. Before this set of ridiculous offers, people who spend, a nice amount, about 1/3 or half of the old set of offers, were rewarded, could keep up with whales, and be competitive. That's over now. Even if you spend money it s for nothing if not purchasing everything.

    Is this still a game?

    Playing this game for years. I have never seen FTp showing their appreciation towards people who pay to play. Always same old complaint in very deal that "this time is not the same. It will widen the playing ground".

    In fact, Kabam never restricts any player to have access to those deals. If it is so good, why don't FTP starts buying the deal.

    Without even considering buying the deal but complaining that the deal is too good for players who pay.

    If the deal is not attractive, who is going to buy? Why don't you buy too?

    This is such a ridiculous complain.....
    Reminds me of the passage in the Bible whereby Jesus rebukes the pharisees and sadduces by saying their hypocrites cause they don't enter the kingdom of heaven and they don't allow anyone to enter also.

    So, too, with FTP players. They don't buy these deals (no matter how great kabam makes them) and they don't want anyone to buy them either. These July 4th deals are, in my opinion, great!!
    Excellent way of looking at it. What surprises me is how shamelessly they say this stuff.

    Meanwhile they revive farmed to get whatever they have and now that it’s gone, they want to still hold the advantage. Freeloaders gonna freeload.
    Get back to us when you understand the definition of a freeloader.
    Fr lol, a freeloader is some one who as you can probably guess by the word wants rewards for FREE, i never asked for that, money isn’t the only way to “get things” though, time is money. So if I put in the time equivalent of your money shouldn’t I get what you paid for? Thanks for agreeing World Breaker lol
    World Eater* sorry
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,654 Guardian

    DNA3000 said:

    The way this game functioned at one point was you could either invest a large amount of time to acquire resources, or you could invest very little or no time and get the same or slightly better resources.

    Although I hear this a lot, even from players whose opinions I respect, I personally have never felt this way in the entire history of the game. Going all the way back to when T4CC was the top resource in the game, you had to be in a top tier alliance to get it. There was no way to (directly) buy them with cash, and no plausible way to grind for them with any amount of time. And at the time, the complaint was that the only way to get into top tier alliances was with high prestige, which was the purview of the big spenders and a few very high F2P grinders.

    As someone who used to run in an above average alliance (say, top 300 AQ and tier 5/6 AW) and has generally been a higher than average arena grinder, I have *always* felt that I could keep pace with the top players, in terms of not falling too far behind them, but also *never* felt that with just a little more spending, grinding, or pushing I could actually catch up to them.

    I'm now in a much more relaxed alliance (~3200 AQ and tier 12 AW) and honestly I don't feel like I've fallen that much further behind. I spend a bit more, I push a bit less, and I'm still drafting behind the economic wake of the top tier players.

    I understand that experience is individual. I know people who have echoed what you're seeing. I just don't think this is a universal sentiment based on objective economic realities. It is driven by the perception of moving targets, and honestly some rose colored views of the past. There are players who had no trouble in the T4CC days and now feel like they are falling behind. But then there are people like me who had no way to approach the top in those days and see a more accessible economy today. And it is not just spending. Even the unit offers which F2P arena grinders can get are offering ways for those players to make significant progress. Now some people believe that arena grinding shouldn't be as good or better of a path to progress as other content driven paths. But that to is a matter of preference, not economic constraints.
    I definitely see that side as well, and I very well could be falling victim to the rose colored lenses of the past, I just know I personally have completed almost all of the end game content except for some of carinas challenges and still have yet to get a single r5, I just feel as though event quests most difficult setting should be providing you with at some convoluted way to get close to a rank 5 6 star, right now thats not the case, even look at the newest story content 8.2. Exploration of that got you 1 T6CC and thats about it as far as rank 5 materials go. I just think we usually see a smaller gap between what is readily available in the rewards of eq or story content and whats available in the unit store. All I’m saying is it sucks to feel Kabam put a 100 dollar price tag on things that are beyond the reach of even the highest level of content
    Last year, more or less, the complaint was that the next tier of progress was something you could purchase before you could earn in the game. The common complaint was that it was fine if spending gave you *more* but in-game content should get you there *first*.

    Well, we've now seen the opposite. R5/R2 was something you could earn in game at the very very top first, before the big sales came along and flooded the game with them. It was theoretically possible to get there first, but spenders got a lot more later. The reaction now seems to be, spenders are getting too much: they are able to buy way more than we can earn in the game.

    This paints the monetization team into a corner. If spending cannot get you there first, and spending cannot get a lot more, then what advantage can you buy in the game? And there is definitely a "top tier player skew" going on here. It seems to be acceptable if a medium tier player can spend money to shoot past other medium tier players, but if a spender shoots past a top tier end game player that's a completely different problem.

    It unfortunately isn't because top tier end game players don't have a special position that protects them from the effects of monetization. Spending offers advantage everywhere.

    In the end, the advantage of spending is ultimately time. Spending can get you there first, where you can enjoy that advantage before others catch up. Or spending can get you more, where you get more things faster, and then enjoy that advantage until others catch up. First or faster or both. You have to pick at least one. If it was you, which one would you pick? Does the first R3 come from some in-game content, and then the spenders get to have five of them when the next big sale comes around? Or does the first R3 come from spending, and everyone else has to wait for content to catch up?

    While you're deciding, consider this. The J4 and CW sales represent the peak value that cash spending has in the game. Everything else everytime else has lower value. So when you peg the maximum value a spender can get from J4, consider what a moderate spender will have to settle for. Then consider what a moderate spender on any other day will have to settle for. Is that enough to support the game? What if we're wrong?
  • doctorbdoctorb Member Posts: 1,843 ★★★★

    doctorb said:

    vz2fbx said:

    Searmenis said:

    The gap between f2p and spending is not something new. We all agree, or at least most of us, that the game must reward the player who supports it with money, and make it continue running etc. But.
    The problem this time, is that there s a new unreachable gap between level of spending. Before this set of ridiculous offers, people who spend, a nice amount, about 1/3 or half of the old set of offers, were rewarded, could keep up with whales, and be competitive. That's over now. Even if you spend money it s for nothing if not purchasing everything.

    Is this still a game?

    Playing this game for years. I have never seen FTp showing their appreciation towards people who pay to play. Always same old complaint in very deal that "this time is not the same. It will widen the playing ground".

    In fact, Kabam never restricts any player to have access to those deals. If it is so good, why don't FTP starts buying the deal.

    Without even considering buying the deal but complaining that the deal is too good for players who pay.

    If the deal is not attractive, who is going to buy? Why don't you buy too?

    This is such a ridiculous complain.....
    Reminds me of the passage in the Bible whereby Jesus rebukes the pharisees and sadduces by saying their hypocrites cause they don't enter the kingdom of heaven and they don't allow anyone to enter also.

    So, too, with FTP players. They don't buy these deals (no matter how great kabam makes them) and they don't want anyone to buy them either. These July 4th deals are, in my opinion, great!!
    Excellent way of looking at it. What surprises me is how shamelessly they say this stuff.

    Meanwhile they revive farmed to get whatever they have and now that it’s gone, they want to still hold the advantage. Freeloaders gonna freeload.
    Get back to us when you understand the definition of a freeloader.
    Fr lol, a freeloader is some one who as you can probably guess by the word wants rewards for FREE, i never asked for that, money isn’t the only way to “get things” though, time is money. So if I put in the time equivalent of your money shouldn’t I get what you paid for? Thanks for agreeing World Breaker lol
    That's assuming spenders don't spend time on the game. But a lot of spenders spend time AND money while u complain about only spending time.

    This argument tree can go on forever so to put it bluntly like someone said before,
    The offers are there for EVERYONE.
    If u choose to spend (whatever ur reasons) it's all on u. Just don't disparage those who do. U enjoy ur FTP and spenders will enjoy their spending.
    Peace and love to all.
  • ChatterofforumsChatterofforums Member Posts: 1,779 ★★★★★

    doctorb said:

    vz2fbx said:

    Searmenis said:

    The gap between f2p and spending is not something new. We all agree, or at least most of us, that the game must reward the player who supports it with money, and make it continue running etc. But.
    The problem this time, is that there s a new unreachable gap between level of spending. Before this set of ridiculous offers, people who spend, a nice amount, about 1/3 or half of the old set of offers, were rewarded, could keep up with whales, and be competitive. That's over now. Even if you spend money it s for nothing if not purchasing everything.

    Is this still a game?

    Playing this game for years. I have never seen FTp showing their appreciation towards people who pay to play. Always same old complaint in very deal that "this time is not the same. It will widen the playing ground".

    In fact, Kabam never restricts any player to have access to those deals. If it is so good, why don't FTP starts buying the deal.

    Without even considering buying the deal but complaining that the deal is too good for players who pay.

    If the deal is not attractive, who is going to buy? Why don't you buy too?

    This is such a ridiculous complain.....
    Reminds me of the passage in the Bible whereby Jesus rebukes the pharisees and sadduces by saying their hypocrites cause they don't enter the kingdom of heaven and they don't allow anyone to enter also.

    So, too, with FTP players. They don't buy these deals (no matter how great kabam makes them) and they don't want anyone to buy them either. These July 4th deals are, in my opinion, great!!
    Excellent way of looking at it. What surprises me is how shamelessly they say this stuff.

    Meanwhile they revive farmed to get whatever they have and now that it’s gone, they want to still hold the advantage. Freeloaders gonna freeload.
    Get back to us when you understand the definition of a freeloader.
    Fr lol, a freeloader is some one who as you can probably guess by the word wants rewards for FREE, i never asked for that, money isn’t the only way to “get things” though, time is money. So if I put in the time equivalent of your money shouldn’t I get what you paid for? Thanks for agreeing World Breaker lol
    I hate that saying the "time is money" because in most cases it is completely untrue. For time you spent on the game to be relevant to this saying, then you would need to be losing out on money that you would otherwise get had you not played the game or if you had used that time for making money (which no one works 24 hours a day).

    For example if your sitting at home doing nothing (and you have no job or it's your off say) then NO time is not money as you are not losing any money from other activities to make this saying relevant.

    But let's say you called off from work sick to play the game and you don't get paid sick days, then YES that saying is relevant in this unusual decision. Let's say you do get paid sick days then NO, that saying is t relevant.

Sign In or Register to comment.