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Magic Thief - NEEDS NERF ASAP

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    BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 9,263 ★★★★★
    Deacon said:

    Three of the attack tactic champs have play styles that are hard countered by the tactic: Stryfe Hood and Dani.

    Stryfe and Hood are two of the best war attackers in the list of tactic champs... and they are hard countered by the defense tactic due to how it interacts with miss.

    Kabam seriously do you guys effing test anything? Who the hell was responsible for this? It's like you ignored 75% of war interactions. Unblockable nodes, champs that utilize miss on their kit.... this tactic is aids with both of these. You guys seriously have been making some stupid ass decisions lately. 

    I’ll agree with Hood and Dani, and even add Prof X, Nightcrawler, Spidey supreme to the list. Those choices are a bit disappointing to me.

    But stryfe is absolutely fine. I tested him today and he crushed. R5 Zemo, ascended Bullseye on hazard shift, R3 Killmonger on boss island all smashed.

    You don’t need to miss at all vs tactic champs if you don’t want to, you can ramp without sp1. Or ramp vs non tactic. And even if you do want to, stryfe’s parry heavy playstyle means you often have prowess to remove the indestructible that you give them from a couple of misses.

    Add on the fact that while you ramp, damage isn’t as necessary, you can deal with a couple of indestructible afterwards, Stryfe performs very well.
    I guess so, but I usually use Stryfe on path 5 which often requires you to utilize his miss mechanic with the types of defenders placed there.
    what kind of immunities does Stryfe have that he would survive a hazard shift fight? does the 20% concussion stop the DOT damage ?? if so, that's some KABOOM AI at its finest lol ... how does he get by the shocks, bleeds, poisons or incinerates to survive a Bullseye fight?
    I fought a bullseye on bleed/shock hazard shift.

    Horseman Norseman stryfe went a little crazy
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    BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 9,263 ★★★★★

    Three of the attack tactic champs have play styles that are hard countered by the tactic: Stryfe Hood and Dani.

    Stryfe and Hood are two of the best war attackers in the list of tactic champs... and they are hard countered by the defense tactic due to how it interacts with miss.

    Kabam seriously do you guys effing test anything? Who the hell was responsible for this? It's like you ignored 75% of war interactions. Unblockable nodes, champs that utilize miss on their kit.... this tactic is aids with both of these. You guys seriously have been making some stupid ass decisions lately. 

    I’ll agree with Hood and Dani, and even add Prof X, Nightcrawler, Spidey supreme to the list. Those choices are a bit disappointing to me.

    But stryfe is absolutely fine. I tested him today and he crushed. R5 Zemo, ascended Bullseye on hazard shift, R3 Killmonger on boss island all smashed.

    You don’t need to miss at all vs tactic champs if you don’t want to, you can ramp without sp1. Or ramp vs non tactic. And even if you do want to, stryfe’s parry heavy playstyle means you often have prowess to remove the indestructible that you give them from a couple of misses.

    Add on the fact that while you ramp, damage isn’t as necessary, you can deal with a couple of indestructible afterwards, Stryfe performs very well.
    I guess so, but I usually use Stryfe on path 5 which often requires you to utilize his miss mechanic with the types of defenders placed there.
    I get what you mean, the miss can definitely help with an intercept. But all I mean is that stryfe doesn’t literally *need* to use miss like Dani or Hood does for example.

    And even if you do want to intercept with it, as long as you parry a couple of times you are still able to use it.

    I’m not saying I think it’s perfect design, I’ve seen feedback in the CCP that tactic attackers who miss shouldn’t give defenders the indestructible, so at least you aren’t punished for using champs in their intended loops. I’m more just saying that stryfe is not hit nearly as hard as others, and he’s not hard countered. He’s actually still incredibly useful
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    DeaconDeacon Posts: 4,183 ★★★★★

    Deacon said:

    Three of the attack tactic champs have play styles that are hard countered by the tactic: Stryfe Hood and Dani.

    Stryfe and Hood are two of the best war attackers in the list of tactic champs... and they are hard countered by the defense tactic due to how it interacts with miss.

    Kabam seriously do you guys effing test anything? Who the hell was responsible for this? It's like you ignored 75% of war interactions. Unblockable nodes, champs that utilize miss on their kit.... this tactic is aids with both of these. You guys seriously have been making some stupid ass decisions lately. 

    I’ll agree with Hood and Dani, and even add Prof X, Nightcrawler, Spidey supreme to the list. Those choices are a bit disappointing to me.

    But stryfe is absolutely fine. I tested him today and he crushed. R5 Zemo, ascended Bullseye on hazard shift, R3 Killmonger on boss island all smashed.

    You don’t need to miss at all vs tactic champs if you don’t want to, you can ramp without sp1. Or ramp vs non tactic. And even if you do want to, stryfe’s parry heavy playstyle means you often have prowess to remove the indestructible that you give them from a couple of misses.

    Add on the fact that while you ramp, damage isn’t as necessary, you can deal with a couple of indestructible afterwards, Stryfe performs very well.
    I guess so, but I usually use Stryfe on path 5 which often requires you to utilize his miss mechanic with the types of defenders placed there.
    what kind of immunities does Stryfe have that he would survive a hazard shift fight? does the 20% concussion stop the DOT damage ?? if so, that's some KABOOM AI at its finest lol ... how does he get by the shocks, bleeds, poisons or incinerates to survive a Bullseye fight?
    What? Path 5 is ebb and flow, not Hazard shift. Are you high?
    I wasn't referring to you but rather the comment you quoted about hazard shift Bullseye with Stryfe.
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    LordSmasherLordSmasher Posts: 1,461 ★★★★★
    Was hoping for an update. Its not a great list of attackers and the bans are going to remove the viable ones.
    If no change we'll just flood the BGs with these defenders.
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    PissedOffParagonPissedOffParagon Posts: 61
    Works as intended, but would appreciate the decency from Kabam to confirm that. Apparently daily card is higher on the priority list as it actually requires money
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    DeaconDeacon Posts: 4,183 ★★★★★
    hmmm
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    GamerGamer Posts: 10,481 ★★★★★
    Funny there’s hasn’t said anything yet
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    LordSmasherLordSmasher Posts: 1,461 ★★★★★
    Well today it will be putting out update fires
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    kus234kus234 Posts: 226 ★★
    Still no feedback
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    Thekiller8967Thekiller8967 Posts: 323 ★★
    edited March 4
    How are you meant to do path 4? (unblockable path). They go unblockable and can't parry them, and none of the attack tactic really help much.

    To make it worse any miss champ is immediately punished by indust charges too.
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    Doug555Doug555 Posts: 26
    Ok Kabam, please explain how (even if you adjust values and small tweaks do this tactic) are you going to fight chunky champs (with increased stat values in Elite map) on nodes like
    Stun reflection
    Conflictor + one eye open
    Knockdown protection nodes

    Along with parrying Gorr and Wiccan on node where you need specific counters..?!
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    GiusGiufGiusGiuf Posts: 12


    Suggestions?
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    thisisimpossiblthisisimpossibl Posts: 59
    GiusGiuf said:



    Suggestions?

    Iceman? Probably about it. Still be a lot of deaths.
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    zuffyzuffy Posts: 2,201 ★★★★★
    GiusGiuf said:



    Suggestions?

    I can’t fight bullseye to begin with. Throw in magic thief, all I can do was chip away with domino. 20+ deaths 🤣

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    Matty_IceMatty_Ice Posts: 587 ★★★
    Raganator said:

    I was listening to DLL's deep dive with context on The Serpent. He talks about creating a puzzle for summoners to solve. I wish the AW devs used the same line of thinking. Instead, they are creating punishing nodes for the sake of being punished, not puzzles to be solved. Being punishing for the sake of being punishing is just not fun at all. And this is a game (i.e., should be fun, not frustrating).

    This is my complaint with punishing content. I want a puzzle to solve, not being punished for the sake of punishment.

    Part of alliance war is being able to outthink what your opponent does. They place some difficult placements, but then it’s up to our alliance to use our brains to plan the best champs and strategy to counter that fight. That is where the fun is in war. Can we solve the puzzle and perform the fights.

    As has been stated in all 6 pages of this thread, this tactic is just garbage.
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    Man this meta is so dumb. I know that’s not helpful or constructive feedback, but it’s just exhausting to try to QC this game for the devs. It’s not like it’s just a few little things that need tweaking. This is such **** that it’s just so much work to even begin. Kudos to y’all that have offered ideas for fixes. Personally, I’m just too worn down by it. The devs don’t care about or even think about the game as much as we do. It makes me sad because the game has been very fun, and I’ve made a lot of friends here, but at a certain point enough is enough. I dunno. Fingers crossed for a change in direction.
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    PIKESTAINPIKESTAIN Posts: 183 ★★
    It’s pretty comical at this point. No addressing, no “we will look into it”….. just the same song and dance. You guys don’t always have to be right, own your mistakes, like this meta. Or act like you care at least.
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    startropicsstartropics Posts: 679 ★★★★
    kus234 said:

    Still no feedback

    give it a few days. they need to go over things in meetings and come up with a full response. i'd be shocked if this reaction took them by surprise because they know better and if they don't reverse course they will alienate players from the mode and probably alliances, even t1 players.

    i don't know what happened and who's pushing this trend, but it feels like a few people are just messing around with the mode and making it just for themselves and a few of their elite friends. i'm not saying that's what happening but it feels like it, and it's so exclusionary.

    a mode can't just cater to 150 people and kick everyone else out. aw had some rough patches over the years but it was never a private hoity-toity club.
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    ZolobacsiZolobacsi Posts: 119 ★★
    Deacon said:

    Old
    #Magic Thief Defenders gain a stackable Indestructible Passive every 5 seconds, or when their attacks are Dodged, Evaded, or Miss. Max stacks: 3. This timer is paused during the Defender's Specials. As long as this Indestructible Passive is on the Defender, they gain 5% of a Bar of Power when hitting the Attacker's Block. 1 Indestructible Passive is removed whenever the Attacker Well-Time Blocks. These effects cannot be affected by Ability Accuracy.

    New
    #Magic Thief Defenders gain a stackable Indestructible Passive every 5 seconds, or when their attacks are Dodged, Evaded, or Miss. Max stacks: 3. This timer is paused for 3, 5, or 6 seconds when the Attacker or Defender gains a bar of power. Hitting the defender with a Special Attack while the defender's back is against the wall removes all passives. As long as this Indestructible Passive is on the Defender, they gain 15%, 12%, 10% of a Bar of Power when the Attacker strikes the Defender's block. These effects cannot be affected by Ability Accuracy.


    Old
    Attack: X-Magica
    If the Attacker has the #X-Magica tag, their Well-Timed Blocks grant them an indefinite 2% Prowess Passive. Max stacks: 7. When a #X-Magica Attacker strikes a #Magic Thief Defender, they pause their Indestructible timer for 0.5 seconds. When a #Magic Thief Defender activates an Indestructible Passive, it and 1 Prowess Passive from this Tactic is instantly removed. These effects cannot be affected by Ability Accuracy.

    New
    If the champion is tagged #X-Magica, gaining a bar of power grants the attacker an indefinite 5% prowess passive and inflicts a 1 second stun debuff (or passive; debuff makes it more interesting) on the Defender. If the attacker hits the defender while stunned with a special attack, increase the potency of prowess passives by 5%, 10%, 15%. These effects cannot be affected by Ability Accuracy.


    Here's what I thought was a much better punishing yet not restrictive experience.

    My problem with this is that the pool of xmagica champs is still too narrow. Most of them just simply couldn't handle certain nods and you can't use any other tactics therefore no other champs. With 3 bans you would be exactly there where you are now. Crush was better because of this, with not tactic champs who could handle unblockable specials or other tactics like decay that could give the upper hand against certain nods. You had many more options.
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    FunnyDudeFunnyDude Posts: 493 ★★★★
    Another beautiful war, brilliant design! keep going on this road Kabam, make everyone go with 1-loyalty war.


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    RydertheblackRydertheblack Posts: 296
    And AI is freakingly defensive. Nice going. No more pennies from my end.
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    Amms90Amms90 Posts: 335 ★★★
    worse than the previous tactic and that's saying a lot. Made a separate post about this a few days ago. Still no reply from kabam. Not addressing the elephant in the room seems like the new trend
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