Early Look: New Alliance Wars Maps - Discussion Thread

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  • LeNoirFaineantLeNoirFaineant Posts: 7,951 ★★★★★

    Beta was held on Expert map. My belief was higher tiers were getting a new map like beginner/normal had a different map. Seems like that wasn't the case and no feedback was requested or received from players in the middle tiers.

    So is Defense Tactics going to affect all tiers? Even when you tried to introduce the global node before it was only tried on the top tiers then because they had the roster depth.


    We only plan on adding Defense Tactics to Tiers 1-5 at this time (Expert and Challenger Maps), but still wanted to update the Maps for all Tiers.
    Says it will be added. No additional rewards, with unintentional added difficulty.
    Where was this writing In the original post?
    Miike meant that in season 11 defensive tactics will only be added to tiers 1-5 and that that is the plan at this time. They aren't going to be added to any tier in season 10
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 30,852 ★★★★★
    edited May 2019

    Defender Kills have nothing to do with intending the Map to be difficult to complete.

    They have everything to do with why people were complaining that wars were no longer being determined by skill but by things like defensive rating, not because the map was too easy like you claimed lol. At the time a Mod commented that defensive rating and diversity were determining wars because both sides were 100%ing the map, which wasn't intended, but they have since dropped that as a thing. Making people fail to 100% the map hasn't been a goal for some time. I think you are a little confused on your recollections, but this is an irrelevant tangent so I suggest we drop it.
    Defender Kills never stopped people from completing the Map. What it did was cost people for every K.O. Which meant effectively, people were using Resources to increase their chances of losing. Skill to get through the Nodes without dying, perhaps. Not skill for people relying on Defender Kills for Wins. Large amounts of Points accumualted for deaths. Back when the Mystic Barrier was a thing, all people had to do was let the opponent K.O. themselves into a Loss. There were a few reasons they were removed, and the current iteration still encourages people to play skillfully while at the same time not docking them for their efforts and use of Items afterwards. Defender Kills didn't have anything to do with making the Map harder to complete. People were scared to keep trying because every K.O. gave Points.
    Wow you are really missing the point. Everything you are saying about the topic is irrelevant. I only brought up defender kills because their removal was the reason people were complaining, rather than what you alleged. Rehashing why they were removed or whether they should have been is irrelevant to the discussion. We are talking about two totally different things and consequently are talking past each other. It isn't worth trying to come to terms though, because it has little to do with the discussion at hand.
    I'm not missing the point at all. You're missing a timeline. I commented on when the comment was made about reaching 100% to be rare. That was when the issue was that both sides were completing 100%. Defender Rating was removed, yes. That wasn't the argument. That was earlier. The argument was against Diversity. There were several arguments during iterations, and they still stemmed from people being unhappy they were removed.
    The way that you are arguing that you aren't missing the point shows how much you have missed the point but it's all good.
    Okay, that's Word Soup. Here's a Thread it was commented on concerning Diversity being removed.
    https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/77099/alliance-wars-season-3-discussion-thread/p1

    Here's the reference in the Announcement specifically mentioning what I just talked about.
    https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/77098/alliance-wars-season-3-start-date-and-adjusments
  • PincheChingonPincheChingon Posts: 99

    Beta was held on Expert map. My belief was higher tiers were getting a new map like beginner/normal had a different map. Seems like that wasn't the case and no feedback was requested or received from players in the middle tiers.

    So is Defense Tactics going to affect all tiers? Even when you tried to introduce the global node before it was only tried on the top tiers then because they had the roster depth.


    We only plan on adding Defense Tactics to Tiers 1-5 at this time (Expert and Challenger Maps), but still wanted to update the Maps for all Tiers.
    Says it will be added. No additional rewards, with unintentional added difficulty.
    Where was this writing In the original post?
    Miike meant that in season 11 defensive tactics will only be added to tiers 1-5 and that that is the plan at this time. They aren't going to be added to any tier in season 10
    Unless it comes from the horse’s mouth, it’s all hearsay. He has not been very “clear” about what he has posted.
    @Kabam Miike needs to address this.
  • Beta was held on Expert map. My belief was higher tiers were getting a new map like beginner/normal had a different map. Seems like that wasn't the case and no feedback was requested or received from players in the middle tiers.

    So is Defense Tactics going to affect all tiers? Even when you tried to introduce the global node before it was only tried on the top tiers then because they had the roster depth.


    We only plan on adding Defense Tactics to Tiers 1-5 at this time (Expert and Challenger Maps), but still wanted to update the Maps for all Tiers.
    Can we get some clarification on this particular statement @Kabam Miike ??? This is VERY confusing. Are you saying starting Season 11 only Tiers 1-5 will recieve Defense Tactics, or are we getting them in Season 10 and everyone else will get them Season 11??? The main post states not til Season 11 so I'm HOPING you're just saying that at this time (being the upcoming Season 11) that Tiers 1-5 will be getting Defense Tactics. Otherwise the main post is kind of misleading.
  • LeNoirFaineantLeNoirFaineant Posts: 7,951 ★★★★★

    Where did you get that from? Defense Tactics will be added in Season 11. The Maps are changing for Season 10.

    Kabam Miike posted it. I just quote it.
    Perhaps @Kabam Miike needs to address when Defender tactics will take place.
    He said up there it will take place for Tiers1-5. But DID not specify WHEN it would take place. Season 10, 11, 12, 99?
    Or maybe when DCU takes over? 😂

    All we want is clear explanation of when and what will take place.
    Is that too much to ask for?
    It's been addressed. They will be added to tiers 1-5 in season 11. I think you misread the "at this time" part. That just meant that they don't have current plans to introduce them to all tiers.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 30,852 ★★★★★

    Beta was held on Expert map. My belief was higher tiers were getting a new map like beginner/normal had a different map. Seems like that wasn't the case and no feedback was requested or received from players in the middle tiers.

    So is Defense Tactics going to affect all tiers? Even when you tried to introduce the global node before it was only tried on the top tiers then because they had the roster depth.


    We only plan on adding Defense Tactics to Tiers 1-5 at this time (Expert and Challenger Maps), but still wanted to update the Maps for all Tiers.
    Says it will be added. No additional rewards, with unintentional added difficulty.
    Where was this writing In the original post?
    Miike meant that in season 11 defensive tactics will only be added to tiers 1-5 and that that is the plan at this time. They aren't going to be added to any tier in season 10
    Unless it comes from the horse’s mouth, it’s all hearsay. He has not been very “clear” about what he has posted.
    @Kabam Miike needs to address this.
    It's clear. No Defense Tactics until Season 11.
  • Where did you get that from? Defense Tactics will be added in Season 11. The Maps are changing for Season 10.

    Kabam Miike posted it. I just quote it.
    Perhaps @Kabam Miike needs to address when Defender tactics will take place.
    He said up there it will take place for Tiers1-5. But DID not specify WHEN it would take place. Season 10, 11, 12, 99?
    Or maybe when DCU takes over? 😂

    All we want is clear explanation of when and what will take place.
    Is that too much to ask for?
    It's been addressed. They will be added to tiers 1-5 in season 11. I think you misread the "at this time" part. That just meant that they don't have current plans to introduce them to all tiers.
    That's what I was hoping. But I didn't see the clarification either.
  • LeNoirFaineantLeNoirFaineant Posts: 7,951 ★★★★★

    Where did you get that from? Defense Tactics will be added in Season 11. The Maps are changing for Season 10.

    Kabam Miike posted it. I just quote it.
    Perhaps @Kabam Miike needs to address when Defender tactics will take place.
    He said up there it will take place for Tiers1-5. But DID not specify WHEN it would take place. Season 10, 11, 12, 99?
    Or maybe when DCU takes over? 😂

    All we want is clear explanation of when and what will take place.
    Is that too much to ask for?
    It's been addressed. They will be added to tiers 1-5 in season 11. I think you misread the "at this time" part. That just meant that they don't have current plans to introduce them to all tiers.
    That's what I was hoping. But I didn't see the clarification either.
    I just read through it. He said that they wanted to have it live for season 10 but decided not to because it would be too much change, and that they only plan on making the change for tiers 1-5 at this time but everyone gets a new map. I can see how it could be misread but 100% sure there will be no defensive tactics for anyone in season 10
  • PincheChingonPincheChingon Posts: 99

    Where did you get that from? Defense Tactics will be added in Season 11. The Maps are changing for Season 10.

    Kabam Miike posted it. I just quote it.
    Perhaps @Kabam Miike needs to address when Defender tactics will take place.
    He said up there it will take place for Tiers1-5. But DID not specify WHEN it would take place. Season 10, 11, 12, 99?
    Or maybe when DCU takes over? 😂

    All we want is clear explanation of when and what will take place.
    Is that too much to ask for?
    It's been addressed. They will be added to tiers 1-5 in season 11. I think you misread the "at this time" part. That just meant that they don't have current plans to introduce them to all tiers.
    I’m not trying to be a douche. But posting “not at this time” is vague.
    Compared to specify stating Season 10 will have new maps, and Season 11 will Defender tactics with additional rewards.
    But the come back to the forums a s state Defender tactics will be for T1-5.

    If @Kabam Miike doesn’t say “Defender Tactics” will not be a part of Season 10 war, then I will believe it.
    I am asking for clarity when post are made from moderators.
  • Truthfully, out of context, that statement can easily be misconstrued. When I 1st read it, I kind of figured that's what he meant. At the same time, It got kind of muddy due to a lack of clarity in the phrasing. I HIGHLY doubt they'd pull that kind of maneuver here. With all the disappointment in the lack of reward changes, that would be a really odd call. We are only day 1 of the initial announcement. Things are liable to change if enough feedback is given. Just keep it as positive as possible. Don't let your frustrations get the best of you.
  • LeNoirFaineantLeNoirFaineant Posts: 7,951 ★★★★★

    Where did you get that from? Defense Tactics will be added in Season 11. The Maps are changing for Season 10.

    Kabam Miike posted it. I just quote it.
    Perhaps @Kabam Miike needs to address when Defender tactics will take place.
    He said up there it will take place for Tiers1-5. But DID not specify WHEN it would take place. Season 10, 11, 12, 99?
    Or maybe when DCU takes over? 😂

    All we want is clear explanation of when and what will take place.
    Is that too much to ask for?
    It's been addressed. They will be added to tiers 1-5 in season 11. I think you misread the "at this time" part. That just meant that they don't have current plans to introduce them to all tiers.
    I’m not trying to be a douche. But posting “not at this time” is vague.
    Compared to specify stating Season 10 will have new maps, and Season 11 will Defender tactics with additional rewards.
    But the come back to the forums a s state Defender tactics will be for T1-5.

    If @Kabam Miike doesn’t say “Defender Tactics” will not be a part of Season 10 war, then I will believe it.
    I am asking for clarity when post are made from moderators.
    He did say it. The "at this time" was in response to a question about whether it would affect everyone.

    "So is Defense Tactics going to affect all tiers? Even when you tried to introduce the global node before it was only tried on the top tiers then because they had the roster depth. "


    "We only plan on adding Defense Tactics to Tiers 1-5 at this time (Expert and Challenger Maps), but still wanted to update the Maps for all Tiers."
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 30,852 ★★★★★

    Where did you get that from? Defense Tactics will be added in Season 11. The Maps are changing for Season 10.

    Kabam Miike posted it. I just quote it.
    Perhaps @Kabam Miike needs to address when Defender tactics will take place.
    He said up there it will take place for Tiers1-5. But DID not specify WHEN it would take place. Season 10, 11, 12, 99?
    Or maybe when DCU takes over? 😂

    All we want is clear explanation of when and what will take place.
    Is that too much to ask for?
    It's been addressed. They will be added to tiers 1-5 in season 11. I think you misread the "at this time" part. That just meant that they don't have current plans to introduce them to all tiers.
    I’m not trying to be a douche. But posting “not at this time” is vague.
    Compared to specify stating Season 10 will have new maps, and Season 11 will Defender tactics with additional rewards.
    But the come back to the forums a s state Defender tactics will be for T1-5.

    If @Kabam Miike doesn’t say “Defender Tactics” will not be a part of Season 10 war, then I will believe it.
    I am asking for clarity when post are made from moderators.
    He did say it. The "at this time" was in response to a question about whether it would affect everyone.

    "So is Defense Tactics going to affect all tiers? Even when you tried to introduce the global node before it was only tried on the top tiers then because they had the roster depth. "


    "We only plan on adding Defense Tactics to Tiers 1-5 at this time (Expert and Challenger Maps), but still wanted to update the Maps for all Tiers."
    This.
  • LeNoirFaineantLeNoirFaineant Posts: 7,951 ★★★★★
    edited May 2019
    "Defence Tactics is the biggest update we've made to Alliance Wars since Seasons were introduced, and while we wanted to have them live for Season 10, the feedback we received that it was soon, and we needed to get these Maps out to everybody first."

    Seems pretty clear.
  • Ultra8529Ultra8529 Posts: 526 ★★★
    edited May 2019
    It is almost as though you guys do not want people to play AW. Surely the numbers must by now show that general interest in this aspect of the game has dropped. Changing a map does not create new excitement when it increases difficulty and requires a complete overhaul in planning by leadership.

    Also, why so tight-lipped about the grand rewards revamp that you guys say will come in Season 11? Surely if it is as good as people are expecting, you guys would have that front and centre to persuade us that it is "just 1 more season" before we get new glorious rewards?

    Even if you do not want to increase the rewards for Season 10, it is still in Kabam's interest to tempt us with the rewards for Season 11, so that people will take Season 10 to learn the map. At least there would be some purpose in Season 10. This is unless, of course, the rewards for Season 11 are still going to be mediocre, which I strongly suspect.
  • Fantasy_91Fantasy_91 Posts: 243

    Where did you get that from? Defense Tactics will be added in Season 11. The Maps are changing for Season 10.

    Kabam Miike posted it. I just quote it.
    Perhaps @Kabam Miike needs to address when Defender tactics will take place.
    He said up there it will take place for Tiers1-5. But DID not specify WHEN it would take place. Season 10, 11, 12, 99?
    Or maybe when DCU takes over? 😂

    All we want is clear explanation of when and what will take place.
    Is that too much to ask for?
    It's been addressed. They will be added to tiers 1-5 in season 11. I think you misread the "at this time" part. That just meant that they don't have current plans to introduce them to all tiers.
    I’m not trying to be a douche. But posting “not at this time” is vague.
    Compared to specify stating Season 10 will have new maps, and Season 11 will Defender tactics with additional rewards.
    But the come back to the forums a s state Defender tactics will be for T1-5.

    If @Kabam Miike doesn’t say “Defender Tactics” will not be a part of Season 10 war, then I will believe it.
    I am asking for clarity when post are made from moderators.
    He did say it. The "at this time" was in response to a question about whether it would affect everyone.

    "So is Defense Tactics going to affect all tiers? Even when you tried to introduce the global node before it was only tried on the top tiers then because they had the roster depth. "


    "We only plan on adding Defense Tactics to Tiers 1-5 at this time (Expert and Challenger Maps), but still wanted to update the Maps for all Tiers."
    This.
    Kabam Miike was answering 2 different issues/questions of mine. If you don't see both of my comments and only look at the answer, it can be confusing. He answers the second question and then comments on the first.



  • LeNoirFaineantLeNoirFaineant Posts: 7,951 ★★★★★
    Ultra8529 said:

    It is almost as though you guys do not want people to play AW. Surely the numbers must by now show that general interest in this aspect of the game has dropped. Changing a map does not create new excitement when it increases difficulty and requires a complete overhaul in planning by leadership.

    Also, why so tight-lipped about the grand rewards revamp that you guys say will come in Season 11? Surely if it is as good as people are expecting, you guys would have that front and centre to persuade us that it is "just 1 more season" before we get new glorious rewards?

    Even if you do not want to increase the rewards for Season 10, it is still in Kabam's interest to tempt us with the rewards for Season 11, so that people will take Season 10 to learn the map. At least there would be some purpose in Season 10. This is unless, of course, the rewards for Season 11 are still going to be mediocre, which I strongly suspect.

    I think they ought to meet us half way and give some rewards buff. It doesn't have to be the final version planned for season 11, but it isn't hard to do a partial buff. I suspect if the new map proves to be much harder they will delay the season and alter it, but that's just speculation. The last AW rewards change was good, I'm hopeful that they new one will be. Honestly I think the new map is going to be harder then they think and will have to be nerfed but we will see. No point in going crazy now.
  • ChampioncriticChampioncritic Posts: 3,347 ★★★★
    Is it me, or does it take more energy to finish a path in the new AW season compared to now
  • Marri_2Marri_2 Posts: 577 ★★★
    simula67 said:

    Hey everybody,

    To answer those questions on what these new Buffs are, we've just added a new Chart to the Original Post that includes a description of each of them. You can also see it here:

    One of the pieces of feedback I had during the beta was that it will take alliances a few days to find impossible node/champion combinations. Looking at this list of new nodes, it took me all of a few seconds to find one.

    How exactly would someone defeat a Rhino on the Aegis (Intercept) node?
    Trinity and pray he doesn't go unstoppable? Or Cap IW. SheHulk. Spidergwen.
  • Marri_2Marri_2 Posts: 577 ★★★
    hurricant said:

    simula67 said:

    Hey everybody,

    To answer those questions on what these new Buffs are, we've just added a new Chart to the Original Post that includes a description of each of them. You can also see it here:

    One of the pieces of feedback I had during the beta was that it will take alliances a few days to find impossible node/champion combinations. Looking at this list of new nodes, it took me all of a few seconds to find one.

    How exactly would someone defeat a Rhino on the Aegis (Intercept) node?
    thor ragnarok sig 200 on that node
    Any champ whose first medium is not a contact attack. Medium intercept.

    That being said, this node just looks like it won't be fun.
  • Marri_2Marri_2 Posts: 577 ★★★
    _ASDF_ said:

    simula67 said:


    How exactly would someone defeat a Rhino on the Aegis (Intercept) node?

    Blade with Danger Sense (common) should take care of that just fine

    Danger sense doesn’t stop rhino from going unstoppable. His mechanic is old and not effected by DS.
    This is untrue. DS, however, isn't 100%, so there's a good chance he combos you a few times before you get Aegis deactivated. You'd need 100% AAR. I guess you could use GP and get your combo up, or a few NT from AA.
  • Fantasy_91Fantasy_91 Posts: 243

    Is it me, or does it take more energy to finish a path in the new AW season compared to now

    Is it me, or does it take more energy to finish a path in the new AW season compared to now

    Yes. All those extra nodes with no champs to fight. Makes them able to make the map pretty by giving us near perfect circle on them. While making sure you have to log in more often and use more boosts because you wont be able to fight multiple enemies all at once.

    But just think, your ally mates that die from the harder nodes can be rescued and then play taxi for you instead. All at the cost of sacrificing a path or two.

    With the extra energy nodes I wonder if they gave thought to decreasing the amount it takes to earn energy, giving us more than 3 energy when attack phase starts, or allowing us to bank more than 5 or not requiring energy to go through portals. Just look at that map...if you join at the start with 3 energy and go left or right, you wont even have a fight before you are out of energy.
  • TheVyrusTheVyrus Posts: 418 ★★★
    edited May 2019
    RogerRabs said:

    TheVyrus said:

    Why is it so hard to understand. If they bump the rewards in season 10, everyone will complain they want more in eleven when the true difficulty increase comes down. They are only doing it once so they wait until the full implementation of the most difficult version is here.

    And what exactly is stopping them from increasing the rewards twice? There's also no guarantee Defense Tactics ever get implemented. They were a DISASTER in the Beta.
    Why should they bump twice? The first change is just a new map, that has been needed for a long time now. It won't be harder just take a little while to learn new nodes. Not to mention everyone will play it anyway, people come to forums, complain, and go right back to playing.
  • FrostyFrosty Posts: 475 ★★★
    Where can I find a list of the different defense tactics nodes?
  • Marri_2Marri_2 Posts: 577 ★★★
    I just posted the announcement in our alliance chat. We had already decided to stop playing war in the current system, after having played 1 BG very inconsistent in the previous 2 seasons. I was hoping we'd become interested again, because we all like the idea behind war.

    Then I started reading the posts and I was extremely disappointed. The claim that the difficulty won't increase is untrue, at least for our map. Especially the unavoidable damage was a punch in the stomach. I can already see node/champ combination that nobody is going to enjoy fighting.

    This is a missed opportunity in my opinion. I would very much liked to have seen at least an update to per war rewards, but season rewards are also a terrible effort/reward ratio below platinum. I can get all those rewards in a fraction of the time.

    So unfortunately we will be a war free alliance for a bit longer. Not that it matter to you, because we don't spend on wars.
  • BendersBountyBendersBounty Posts: 160
    I don’t like it
  • Void on inverted immunity (bleed) is insane.
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