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She-Hulk Heavy Speed Bug Fix [Title Edited for Clarity]

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  • Options
    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,393 ★★★★★
    edited August 2019

    That's not really the issue. We know Kabam can change whatever the want as "not working as intended"

    The issue is how they have done it randomly. Whilst clearly knowing about it. And offering no compensation for people who ranked up when this "fix" will clearly change her interaction and usability.

    So how much notice do you need when they're fixing their own game? If they just looked at it recently, then there's little they can say. "Just a heads up. Somewhere there may or may not be a problem. We don't know yet and we don't know where, and we don't know what we will do, if anything. If we do something, you've been notified.".....doesn't exaclty sound right.
    It may have been unexpected, sure. Most things are until they're known. Compensation is a different story. It's up to them if they choose to do anything. I know from past responses that Tickets are for changes to how Champs are intended to perform, and nothing was intended about the glitch, but I can't say they won't and I can't say they will. What I do know is a bunch of people saw others take down one of the hardest Fights in the game with a Champ that's highly accessible, and they ran to Rank her.
    Don’t think it’s too hard to forewarn people she wasn’t working as intended after seeing the first batch of CC videos straight after her buff or even commenting on a thread made on the forums of which there were numerous that her heavy chain was in fact a defect. They’ve handled this terribly and they continue to do so. The argument they only recently “discovered” the bug and fixed it promptly is laughable and insulting to anyone with half a brain.
    All of that is speculatory. We don't know what they were aware of, when it was acknowledged, how long they were working on it, none of that.
  • Options
    Timone147Timone147 Posts: 1,276 ★★★★
    Overall this is a poor way to handle this. I don’t know she hulk well at all and stay on the fringes of communication on YouTube about champs and I was aware of this about she hulk.

    It’s been here in the forums as well. Why would you wait to settle this and not shut it down. There is absolutely no way the game team didn’t see this unless no one is watching any of your game content and top content creators/Forums. Should have communicated this the moment it was identified even if it took a while to fix. Should not have been something you waited to slide in a bug fix note with how much added publicity this champ has been getting as a great in game option.

    Overall this seems underhanded and something that was attempted to be slid under the rug as minor when it’s major and was bound to explode.
  • Options
    CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 4,965 ★★★★★
    edited August 2019
    charging
    Agentk24 said:

    It doesn’t state anywhere in quakes abilities she can indefinitely charge heavies yet its a part of her kit

    It states it in her spotlight, don't worry.

    Dxstinity said:

    @Kabam Miike


    - The problem I have with this issue is that if there was a 'defect' with the way that she hulk was playing and therefore you are adjusting her play style then technically this scenario is like a product recall and members of the community deserve a refund as this is no one else fault than those who should have tested she hulk properly when she was buffed, this play style was shown during BETA which is when you should have acknowledged this needed changing before people invested in the champ.

    This is why BETA testing exists; why wasn't it addressed between the beta and the release?
    The combo into heavy was not widespread until 6.2 which is a distance from the beta.

    That's not really the issue. We know Kabam can change whatever the want as "not working as intended"

    The issue is how they have done it randomly. Whilst clearly knowing about it. And offering no compensation for people who ranked up when this "fix" will clearly change her interaction and usability.

    So how much notice do you need when they're fixing their own game? If they just looked at it recently, then there's little they can say. "Just a heads up. Somewhere there may or may not be a problem. We don't know yet and we don't know where, and we don't know what we will do, if anything. If we do something, you've been notified.".....doesn't exaclty sound right.
    It may have been unexpected, sure. Most things are until they're known. Compensation is a different story. It's up to them if they choose to do anything. I know from past responses that Tickets are for changes to how Champs are intended to perform, and nothing was intended about the glitch, but I can't say they won't and I can't say they will. What I do know is a bunch of people saw others take down one of the hardest Fights in the game with a Champ that's highly accessible, and they ran to Rank her.
    Don’t think it’s too hard to forewarn people she wasn’t working as intended after seeing the first batch of CC videos straight after her buff or even commenting on a thread made on the forums of which there were numerous that her heavy chain was in fact a defect. They’ve handled this terribly and they continue to do so. The argument they only recently “discovered” the bug and fixed it promptly is laughable and insulting to anyone with half a brain.
    All of that is speculatory. We don't know what they were aware of, when it was acknowledged, how long they were working on it, none of that.
    What’s not speculatory is that she has been able to do this since her release. What also is not speculatory is that they buffed her after running a beta where they evaluated her kit again and had time to go over her functionality. It’s also not speculation to say that CC videos were made on her kit and kabam employees had viewed them as far back as after her buffed dropped. Also not speculation to say kabam employees had referenced her usefulness in the champion fight which seems to be people’s main reason to rank her to R5. Think it’s a fair bow to draw that they didn’t only “discover” the big after last update, don’t you?
    Her combo into heavy since release is irrelevant, people didn’t use her in any significant way until after her buff and even then it was not until after the release of 6.2 that her combo into heavy was showcased to any significant degree. Even the beta did not highlight her combo into heavy which is what the issue is about, it was 6.2 champion that did this.

    People harping on the Summoner Showdown spotlight is quite silly, it’s been out for a couple days which is 1-2 days longer then the change log informing of us this upcoming change to her.

    None of this changes that Kabam failed to adequately inform players that She-Hulk’s combo into heavy was unintended.

    I’d like to see the CC videos highlighting her combo into heavy around the time of the beta because right now that sounds like a myth.
  • Options
    Danny790Danny790 Posts: 27
    Dear Kabam team,

    Not at all happy with the way you are modifying a champion. The reasons quoted for the change do not make sense, Just when I was liking the game and was planning to invest more time, this was not welcome.

    I will not invest any more money in this game until I see transparency from your team on how you do things. Very disappointed
  • Options
    LormifLormif Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★

    charging

    Agentk24 said:

    It doesn’t state anywhere in quakes abilities she can indefinitely charge heavies yet its a part of her kit

    It states it in her spotlight, don't worry.

    Dxstinity said:

    @Kabam Miike


    - The problem I have with this issue is that if there was a 'defect' with the way that she hulk was playing and therefore you are adjusting her play style then technically this scenario is like a product recall and members of the community deserve a refund as this is no one else fault than those who should have tested she hulk properly when she was buffed, this play style was shown during BETA which is when you should have acknowledged this needed changing before people invested in the champ.

    This is why BETA testing exists; why wasn't it addressed between the beta and the release?
    The combo into heavy was not widespread until 6.2 which is a distance from the beta.

    That's not really the issue. We know Kabam can change whatever the want as "not working as intended"

    The issue is how they have done it randomly. Whilst clearly knowing about it. And offering no compensation for people who ranked up when this "fix" will clearly change her interaction and usability.

    So how much notice do you need when they're fixing their own game? If they just looked at it recently, then there's little they can say. "Just a heads up. Somewhere there may or may not be a problem. We don't know yet and we don't know where, and we don't know what we will do, if anything. If we do something, you've been notified.".....doesn't exaclty sound right.
    It may have been unexpected, sure. Most things are until they're known. Compensation is a different story. It's up to them if they choose to do anything. I know from past responses that Tickets are for changes to how Champs are intended to perform, and nothing was intended about the glitch, but I can't say they won't and I can't say they will. What I do know is a bunch of people saw others take down one of the hardest Fights in the game with a Champ that's highly accessible, and they ran to Rank her.
    Don’t think it’s too hard to forewarn people she wasn’t working as intended after seeing the first batch of CC videos straight after her buff or even commenting on a thread made on the forums of which there were numerous that her heavy chain was in fact a defect. They’ve handled this terribly and they continue to do so. The argument they only recently “discovered” the bug and fixed it promptly is laughable and insulting to anyone with half a brain.
    All of that is speculatory. We don't know what they were aware of, when it was acknowledged, how long they were working on it, none of that.
    What’s not speculatory is that she has been able to do this since her release. What also is not speculatory is that they buffed her after running a beta where they evaluated her kit again and had time to go over her functionality. It’s also not speculation to say that CC videos were made on her kit and kabam employees had viewed them as far back as after her buffed dropped. Also not speculation to say kabam employees had referenced her usefulness in the champion fight which seems to be people’s main reason to rank her to R5. Think it’s a fair bow to draw that they didn’t only “discover” the big after last update, don’t you?
    Her combo into heavy since release is irrelevant, people didn’t use her in any significant way until after her buff and even then it was not until after the release of 6.2 that her combo into heavy was showcased to any significant degree. Even the beta did not highlight her combo into heavy which is what the issue is about, it was 6.2 champion that did this.

    People harping on the Summoner Showdown spotlight is quite silly, it’s been out for a couple days which is 1-2 days longer then the change log informing of us this upcoming change to her.

    None of this changes that Kabam failed to adequately inform players that She-Hulk’s combo into heavy was unintended.

    I’d like to see the CC videos highlighting her combo into heavy around the time of the beta because right now that sounds like a myth.
    I think people are confusing her pinning to wall as combo into heavy.
  • Options
    Rougeknight87Rougeknight87 Posts: 599 ★★★
    edited August 2019

    charging

    Agentk24 said:

    It doesn’t state anywhere in quakes abilities she can indefinitely charge heavies yet its a part of her kit

    It states it in her spotlight, don't worry.

    Dxstinity said:

    @Kabam Miike


    - The problem I have with this issue is that if there was a 'defect' with the way that she hulk was playing and therefore you are adjusting her play style then technically this scenario is like a product recall and members of the community deserve a refund as this is no one else fault than those who should have tested she hulk properly when she was buffed, this play style was shown during BETA which is when you should have acknowledged this needed changing before people invested in the champ.

    This is why BETA testing exists; why wasn't it addressed between the beta and the release?
    The combo into heavy was not widespread until 6.2 which is a distance from the beta.

    That's not really the issue. We know Kabam can change whatever the want as "not working as intended"

    The issue is how they have done it randomly. Whilst clearly knowing about it. And offering no compensation for people who ranked up when this "fix" will clearly change her interaction and usability.

    So how much notice do you need when they're fixing their own game? If they just looked at it recently, then there's little they can say. "Just a heads up. Somewhere there may or may not be a problem. We don't know yet and we don't know where, and we don't know what we will do, if anything. If we do something, you've been notified.".....doesn't exaclty sound right.
    It may have been unexpected, sure. Most things are until they're known. Compensation is a different story. It's up to them if they choose to do anything. I know from past responses that Tickets are for changes to how Champs are intended to perform, and nothing was intended about the glitch, but I can't say they won't and I can't say they will. What I do know is a bunch of people saw others take down one of the hardest Fights in the game with a Champ that's highly accessible, and they ran to Rank her.
    Don’t think it’s too hard to forewarn people she wasn’t working as intended after seeing the first batch of CC videos straight after her buff or even commenting on a thread made on the forums of which there were numerous that her heavy chain was in fact a defect. They’ve handled this terribly and they continue to do so. The argument they only recently “discovered” the bug and fixed it promptly is laughable and insulting to anyone with half a brain.
    All of that is speculatory. We don't know what they were aware of, when it was acknowledged, how long they were working on it, none of that.
    What’s not speculatory is that she has been able to do this since her release. What also is not speculatory is that they buffed her after running a beta where they evaluated her kit again and had time to go over her functionality. It’s also not speculation to say that CC videos were made on her kit and kabam employees had viewed them as far back as after her buffed dropped. Also not speculation to say kabam employees had referenced her usefulness in the champion fight which seems to be people’s main reason to rank her to R5. Think it’s a fair bow to draw that they didn’t only “discover” the big after last update, don’t you?
    Her combo into heavy since release is irrelevant, people didn’t use her in any significant way until after her buff and even then it was not until after the release of 6.2 that her combo into heavy was showcased to any significant degree. Even the beta did not highlight her combo into heavy which is what the issue is about, it was 6.2 champion that did this.

    People harping on the Summoner Showdown spotlight is quite silly, it’s been out for a couple days which is 1-2 days longer then the change log informing of us this upcoming change to her.

    None of this changes that Kabam failed to adequately inform players that She-Hulk’s combo into heavy was unintended.

    I’d like to see the CC videos highlighting her combo into heavy around the time of the beta because right now that sounds like a myth.
    How is it irrelevant? That’s what the bug is? You could always do it regardless of what content you were using her for. That’s what the bug is, it’s completely relevant. People then adapted that in to certain game styles and realised it suited her kit. Kabam have said that’s what was not the intended feature of her and that’s why they have changed her. Go watch some vids and come back and tell me the earliest time you can see someone chain a heavy or highlight how quick it is.
    Given it has debuffs it also a great way to apply them effectively, this was highlighted early.
  • Options
    Rougeknight87Rougeknight87 Posts: 599 ★★★
    Axo4545 said:

    I'm not siding either way but I will say that what people are forgetting is it's kabam's game, they can change whatever they want whenever they want. You either accept it and move on or stop playing.

    Don’t think many are debating that, there’s certain ways to handle things though. They clearly made a mistake that has clearly put a lot of their customers in a bad spot. People shouldn’t have to choose between leaving or accepting, that’s why we have forums for open dialogue.
  • Options
    CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 4,965 ★★★★★

    charging

    Agentk24 said:

    It doesn’t state anywhere in quakes abilities she can indefinitely charge heavies yet its a part of her kit

    It states it in her spotlight, don't worry.

    Dxstinity said:

    @Kabam Miike


    - The problem I have with this issue is that if there was a 'defect' with the way that she hulk was playing and therefore you are adjusting her play style then technically this scenario is like a product recall and members of the community deserve a refund as this is no one else fault than those who should have tested she hulk properly when she was buffed, this play style was shown during BETA which is when you should have acknowledged this needed changing before people invested in the champ.

    This is why BETA testing exists; why wasn't it addressed between the beta and the release?
    The combo into heavy was not widespread until 6.2 which is a distance from the beta.

    That's not really the issue. We know Kabam can change whatever the want as "not working as intended"

    The issue is how they have done it randomly. Whilst clearly knowing about it. And offering no compensation for people who ranked up when this "fix" will clearly change her interaction and usability.

    So how much notice do you need when they're fixing their own game? If they just looked at it recently, then there's little they can say. "Just a heads up. Somewhere there may or may not be a problem. We don't know yet and we don't know where, and we don't know what we will do, if anything. If we do something, you've been notified.".....doesn't exaclty sound right.
    It may have been unexpected, sure. Most things are until they're known. Compensation is a different story. It's up to them if they choose to do anything. I know from past responses that Tickets are for changes to how Champs are intended to perform, and nothing was intended about the glitch, but I can't say they won't and I can't say they will. What I do know is a bunch of people saw others take down one of the hardest Fights in the game with a Champ that's highly accessible, and they ran to Rank her.
    Don’t think it’s too hard to forewarn people she wasn’t working as intended after seeing the first batch of CC videos straight after her buff or even commenting on a thread made on the forums of which there were numerous that her heavy chain was in fact a defect. They’ve handled this terribly and they continue to do so. The argument they only recently “discovered” the bug and fixed it promptly is laughable and insulting to anyone with half a brain.
    All of that is speculatory. We don't know what they were aware of, when it was acknowledged, how long they were working on it, none of that.
    What’s not speculatory is that she has been able to do this since her release. What also is not speculatory is that they buffed her after running a beta where they evaluated her kit again and had time to go over her functionality. It’s also not speculation to say that CC videos were made on her kit and kabam employees had viewed them as far back as after her buffed dropped. Also not speculation to say kabam employees had referenced her usefulness in the champion fight which seems to be people’s main reason to rank her to R5. Think it’s a fair bow to draw that they didn’t only “discover” the big after last update, don’t you?
    Her combo into heavy since release is irrelevant, people didn’t use her in any significant way until after her buff and even then it was not until after the release of 6.2 that her combo into heavy was showcased to any significant degree. Even the beta did not highlight her combo into heavy which is what the issue is about, it was 6.2 champion that did this.

    People harping on the Summoner Showdown spotlight is quite silly, it’s been out for a couple days which is 1-2 days longer then the change log informing of us this upcoming change to her.

    None of this changes that Kabam failed to adequately inform players that She-Hulk’s combo into heavy was unintended.

    I’d like to see the CC videos highlighting her combo into heavy around the time of the beta because right now that sounds like a myth.
    How is it irrelevant? That’s what the bug is? You could always do it regardless of what content you were using her for. That’s what the bug is, it’s completely relevant. People then adapted that in to certain game styles and realised it suited her kit. Kabam have said that’s what was not the intended feature of her and that’s why they have changed her. Go watch some vids and come back and tell me the earliest time you can see someone chain a heavy or highlight how quick it is
    In arguendo, You could always do it sure. It meant nothing because people didn't use it and she didn't have any reason to do it. It couldn’t cheese content in a way the devs would even notice. No significant number of people (or anyone for that matter) talked about it or even cared about it until 6.2 champion.

    The earliest video’s highlighting combo into heavy are when 6.2 champion. Your turn. And here is Seatin in the beta unaware of the combo into heavy. https://youtu.be/R9mWN0ahKgQ

  • Options
    jnikolas92jnikolas92 Posts: 192 ★★★

    charging

    Agentk24 said:

    It doesn’t state anywhere in quakes abilities she can indefinitely charge heavies yet its a part of her kit

    It states it in her spotlight, don't worry.

    Dxstinity said:

    @Kabam Miike


    - The problem I have with this issue is that if there was a 'defect' with the way that she hulk was playing and therefore you are adjusting her play style then technically this scenario is like a product recall and members of the community deserve a refund as this is no one else fault than those who should have tested she hulk properly when she was buffed, this play style was shown during BETA which is when you should have acknowledged this needed changing before people invested in the champ.

    This is why BETA testing exists; why wasn't it addressed between the beta and the release?
    The combo into heavy was not widespread until 6.2 which is a distance from the beta.

    That's not really the issue. We know Kabam can change whatever the want as "not working as intended"

    The issue is how they have done it randomly. Whilst clearly knowing about it. And offering no compensation for people who ranked up when this "fix" will clearly change her interaction and usability.

    So how much notice do you need when they're fixing their own game? If they just looked at it recently, then there's little they can say. "Just a heads up. Somewhere there may or may not be a problem. We don't know yet and we don't know where, and we don't know what we will do, if anything. If we do something, you've been notified.".....doesn't exaclty sound right.
    It may have been unexpected, sure. Most things are until they're known. Compensation is a different story. It's up to them if they choose to do anything. I know from past responses that Tickets are for changes to how Champs are intended to perform, and nothing was intended about the glitch, but I can't say they won't and I can't say they will. What I do know is a bunch of people saw others take down one of the hardest Fights in the game with a Champ that's highly accessible, and they ran to Rank her.
    Don’t think it’s too hard to forewarn people she wasn’t working as intended after seeing the first batch of CC videos straight after her buff or even commenting on a thread made on the forums of which there were numerous that her heavy chain was in fact a defect. They’ve handled this terribly and they continue to do so. The argument they only recently “discovered” the bug and fixed it promptly is laughable and insulting to anyone with half a brain.
    All of that is speculatory. We don't know what they were aware of, when it was acknowledged, how long they were working on it, none of that.
    What’s not speculatory is that she has been able to do this since her release. What also is not speculatory is that they buffed her after running a beta where they evaluated her kit again and had time to go over her functionality. It’s also not speculation to say that CC videos were made on her kit and kabam employees had viewed them as far back as after her buffed dropped. Also not speculation to say kabam employees had referenced her usefulness in the champion fight which seems to be people’s main reason to rank her to R5. Think it’s a fair bow to draw that they didn’t only “discover” the big after last update, don’t you?
    Her combo into heavy since release is irrelevant, people didn’t use her in any significant way until after her buff and even then it was not until after the release of 6.2 that her combo into heavy was showcased to any significant degree. Even the beta did not highlight her combo into heavy which is what the issue is about, it was 6.2 champion that did this.

    People harping on the Summoner Showdown spotlight is quite silly, it’s been out for a couple days which is 1-2 days longer then the change log informing of us this upcoming change to her.

    None of this changes that Kabam failed to adequately inform players that She-Hulk’s combo into heavy was unintended.

    I’d like to see the CC videos highlighting her combo into heavy around the time of the beta because right now that sounds like a myth.
    How is it irrelevant? That’s what the bug is? You could always do it regardless of what content you were using her for. That’s what the bug is, it’s completely relevant. People then adapted that in to certain game styles and realised it suited her kit. Kabam have said that’s what was not the intended feature of her and that’s why they have changed her. Go watch some vids and come back and tell me the earliest time you can see someone chain a heavy or highlight how quick it is
    In arguendo, You could always do it sure. It meant nothing because people didn't use it and she didn't have any reason to do it. It couldn’t cheese content in a way the devs would even notice. No significant number of people (or anyone for that matter) talked about it or even cared about it until 6.2 champion.

    The earliest video’s highlighting combo into heavy are when 6.2 champion. Your turn. And here is Seatin in the beta unaware of the combo into heavy. https://youtu.be/R9mWN0ahKgQ

    i agree with the point you're making. i think theres a few things that have been exaggerated here. it still doesn't change the fact that due to the lack of actions/communication on the game team's end, it caused a negative experience for people who ranked her up.
    it can't be the fault of the player if there was no way to know that there was something unintended. 6.2 has been out for a few months, meaning videos noting she hulks gameplay has been known by the public for that long. that's confirmed.
    i think everyone agrees that the lack of communication on the game team's end is a thing. no doubt about that.
    it allowed players to use rare resources to rank up she hulk.
    now that shes being changed (which is fair! and well reasoned) and the timing has burned those who ranked her up, there needs to be away to rectify the situation.
  • Options
    LeNoirFaineantLeNoirFaineant Posts: 8,663 ★★★★★

    DrZola said:

    Cain said:

    iRetr0 said:

    I noticed my comments have been deleted, so I will say it again.

    I am no "tin-foil" hat person, but what Kabam has done with Sym Supreme and She-Hulk is, quite frankly, not showing any good signs for the upcoming future. They can do this with LITERALLY any champion and just say "We never identified this bug until now" or "This isn't the way we intended the champ to work" excuse and think they could get away with it.

    They didn't do anything with SS. He never operated at 100%.
    So the spotlight and the description say Symbiote Supreme should be at 100%...but he didn’t operate that way so they ”updated” the text.

    She hulk had no description of her heavy attack, but it’s been the same for years...because that’s how she operated...not they are “updating” her mechanics.

    Yet their “fix” both times manages to reduce champ effectiveness.
    Nothing reduced with SS. He literally never functioned like that. They even discussed changing him to match that Description and realized it was too much.
    Shulk never indicated she was supposed to function that way. Same thing happened with Drax. There was another similar interaction that had to be addressed with GP. Champs aren't supposed to corner others like that.
    I think you have your “cornering” confused—try chaining a heavy with Shulk on 6.2.6 Champion after he has a Sp1.

    GwenPool was a broken mechanic that basically allowed for continuous heavy chaining. The two instances are quite different.

    Dr. Zola

    Kabam mike just stated in another thread since he doesnt wanna show his face here anymore that Kabam will not give out RDTS for her because they see no problem in this change cause apprenatly we all should have known better.

    Screw this bs. What is so difficult to understand!!! It doesnt matter at all what you intended or not!! We cant know that. We ranked her up for what we believed was her ability and you take it away! Ofc we shouldnt be left with a champ at a rank we want none of. How difficult can it be to just hand out a RDT for spesifically for she hulk

    Even when they tell us it is working as intended and close bug threads with the "not a bug" label that's no guarantee that it won't turn out to be not intended a year later lol. Just ask AA. I agree 100%. Whether or not it was intended is not relevant. Apart from obvious bugs, removing a significant ability from a champ should result in rank down tickets, especially in a case like this where no one could have known that it wasn't intended.
  • Options
    MBoguszMBogusz Posts: 98 ★★
    I used a r5 science gem on her. If I get that back I would be happy. Her ability to heavy lock was tacitly acknowledged in the post about a content creator using her for champion. Furthermore her ability to chain in to a heavy doesn’t work against every champion, which will cause new issues against those champions. Leave her how she is, or compensate those who ranked her. And fair compensation, not the usual below par stuff we get
This discussion has been closed.