I wouldn't even say Cull outdamages all champs I say he comes head to head with the top champs
Go ahead, compare damage numbers if you're so sure.
What I'm saying is this Considering how long his ramp is and how trash all his other aspects are it makes sense how high is damage is champs like Namor if you can build to 4 fries can perform similar numbers or even nick if you add up the bleed damage, and proxima can deal serious damage as well like Cull is the definition of "Impractical but Fun"
So based on your logic hyperion is impractical because the only utility he has is his poison immunity or weak heal?
What are you even saying anymore
Oh you want to know what I'm saying now? Okay. If you want to complain about one champ I'm gonna bring up a similar champ that is commonly used and widely regarded as a practical champ. Cull obsidian relies on parry and heavy attacks. Well guess who does that too? That's right... Hyperion. Guess who also has below average block proficiency. See where I'm going here? I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of the forum community that always gives Kabam the finger whenever they don't get what they want.
Yeah but the last time I checked hyperion has tons of utility while Cull has none so your point is invalid
I would like to know what utility hyperion has over cull. I'll be waiting...
Poison immunity, regen, amazing power gain, great DoT
@IDoge Hyperion advantage over Cull Regen, Incinerate and Stun
Just because he has incinerate doesn't make him better lol. Cull obsidian has a stun too on his sp2 if you didn't know. That regen is not worth the effort at all and removes his cosmic charges for a whole 45 seconds. Now what cull has over hyperion is the ability to negate evade and autoblock and parry projectiles which is very useful for fighting someone like imiw or havok. His damage is also extremely higher than hyperion's
If Cull is so much better why do people still use hype over cull hmmm...exactly because hype is better and plus you're comparing a 2016 champs abilities to a 2019 champs abilities which that is already unfair because when hype was around there were barely any champs that can evade or autoblocked so there wasn't any evade/autoblock counters back then anyways plus there was any projectile based basic attacks back then either so that's not even a fair comparison and even then at the end of the day more people use hype than Cull so your point is still invalid and lastly it doesn't change the face that Cull is still impractical while hype isnt
Here’s an idea, don’t allow peeps to purchase new champs until KABAM is done nerfing or buffing the champs. Let them “REBALANCE” these champs, then put them out there for us to obtain. Isn’t this why kabam has testers? For this reason specifically? This way peeps can save their money, units, crystals and time. This way, KABAM won’t have to send rank down tickets(if they send any at all).
As someone who also spent to get Namor, Stelthy and Claire in addition to Cull I'm very worried that all that was just for a few months before they're nerfed.
Yeah but they've told you that there'd be rebalancing right? It's on you as to whether you choose to spend the money going forward?
Also don't forget that the good news is champs that aren't up to par like Ebony Maw are going to get a buff as well - so you do get that assurance on the other side of the spectrum.
How can they be more transparent than that?
What you said makes no sense @RagamugginGunner saI'd he spent for champs like Namor and they never announcedid these rebalances until after he came out so how is that fair in any way
I said "going forward".
Still doesn't change the fact that @RagamugginGunner paid for Namor expecting him to work as portrayed but now there is a chance he is gonna get nerfed so where is the transparency there
There'll always be certain champs that fall through the cracks with these things, but the good news is that going forward rebalancing is good for the game overall.
Yeah rebalances are nice if it's actually needed like why does Cull need he has no utility no health and no block proficiency all he has is damage and they are gonna nerf the only thing he is good at for what reason and not even that he has his fair share of counters to like limber,masochism, fisticuffs, etc.
The thing is, without his counters, he simply outputed way too much damage. 50k mediums, 200k sp2s, and 400k sp3s. There's no stopping him if there are no nodes against his abilities.
Actually if you want to be technical, there are more things that counter Cull than Corvus/Ghost, especially Ghost.
Ghost really doesn’t have any counters. Maw? Meh. Safeguard? Maybe.
Cull? Buffet, masochism, fisticuffs, tranquility, limited immunity, (stun) immunity, limber, mighty charge, KP, AV, CB, Rogue and I’m sure there’s plenty of stuff I can’t even think of off the cuff.
So who really needs the adjustment?
Because those champs and nodes are in every single quest
It’s not developers have no clue, it’s they don’t see how these champs will interact with new content until they are released. I honestly think this 3 month period should happen in beta form like when buffs are applied to old champs.
They should not release a champ and have people rank and spend then make the changes.
It sounds good on paper but... that will slow down the release of new champs and hurt their monthly sales
They could release new champs at the end of each event they are in rather than the pace they've set for themselves that's apparently too brief for adequate testing and make offers people might want to buy to make up for any perceived weekly/daily shortages.
I know there will be a lot of questions about Rank Down Tickets and Compensation for changes, and there already are some. As a reminder, we did say that we will approach these on a case by case basis, and will not be able to make any comments on this yet, because we don't know what Cull's balance pass will look like at all yet.
Also, remember that these changes are restricted to Tuning updates, and are will not change any abilities or utility. Our intention is that if you love your Champion now, you should still love them after.
Do not change anything about him.... i just take him to Rank 5.... do not make my effort and resources un vain....
Dude I spent a lot on crystals to get 5* and 6* Cull and now this happens, I feel robbed and ripped off this is bad customer service. Had I known he would get nerfed I would have never gone for him.
@IDoge Hyperion advantage over Cull Regen, Incinerate and Stun
Just because he has incinerate doesn't make him better lol. Cull obsidian has a stun too on his sp2 if you didn't know. That regen is not worth the effort at all and removes his cosmic charges for a whole 45 seconds. Now what cull has over hyperion is the ability to negate evade and autoblock and parry projectiles which is very useful for fighting someone like imiw or havok. His damage is also extremely higher than hyperion's
If Cull is so much better why do people still use hype over cull hmmm...exactly because hype is better and plus you're comparing a 2016 champs abilities to a 2019 champs abilities which that is already unfair because when hype was around there were barely any champs that can evade or autoblocked so there wasn't any evade/autoblock counters back then anyways plus there was any projectile based basic attacks back then either so that's not even a fair comparison and even then at the end of the day more people use hype than Cull so your point is still invalid and lastly it doesn't change the face that Cull is still impractical while hype isnt
Let me see... bias... prejudice... etc. More people use hype anyways because he is more accesible as cull just recently entered the basic pool.
I hate to use this example but what about seatin he has both hype and cull at r5 and I'm 100 percent sure he uses hype way more than Cull from the live streams I've saw from him
I think this will have a negative impact on their bottom line. Crystal spending on newly released champs or spending hours in arena makes no sense anymore because they are likely to be adjusted within a few months. Time will tell of course
Again, for the 10th time, by Kabam doing this, it's saying that they care more about the balance of the game and the longevity of the game than their back pocket or the bottom line.
They don't make any more money by doing this, but it's the right thing to do.
I wouldn't even say Cull outdamages all champs I say he comes head to head with the top champs
Go ahead, compare damage numbers if you're so sure.
What I'm saying is this Considering how long his ramp is and how trash all his other aspects are it makes sense how high is damage is champs like Namor if you can build to 4 fries can perform similar numbers or even nick if you add up the bleed damage, and proxima can deal serious damage as well like Cull is the definition of "Impractical but Fun"
So based on your logic hyperion is impractical because the only utility he has is his poison immunity or weak heal?
What are you even saying anymore
Oh you want to know what I'm saying now? Okay. If you want to complain about one champ I'm gonna bring up a similar champ that is commonly used and widely regarded as a practical champ. Cull obsidian relies on parry and heavy attacks. Well guess who does that too? That's right... Hyperion. Guess who also has below average block proficiency. See where I'm going here? I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of the forum community that always gives Kabam the finger whenever they don't get what they want.
Yeah but the last time I checked hyperion has tons of utility while Cull has none so your point is invalid
I would like to know what utility hyperion has over cull. I'll be waiting...
Hyperion is king of intercepting, he also does dot damage, regeneration, poison immune, incinerate you want more ?...
There is no such thing as a king of intercepting lol cull obsidian can intercept too. Don't deny that hyperion needs heavies either. Why do you guys keep on bringing up DoT? Cull obsidian "dwarves" his DoT as well as his regular damage. Don't need to explain the regen either
So take Cull against safeguard in a 3min fight and let me know why DoT doesnt add utility to a champion.
@IDoge Hyperion advantage over Cull Regen, Incinerate and Stun
Just because he has incinerate doesn't make him better lol. Cull obsidian has a stun too on his sp2 if you didn't know. That regen is not worth the effort at all and removes his cosmic charges for a whole 45 seconds. Now what cull has over hyperion is the ability to negate evade and autoblock and parry projectiles which is very useful for fighting someone like imiw or havok. His damage is also extremely higher than hyperion's
Oh cool, it's not just Cull you don't understand its hyperion too
I just learned Cull is good for fighting Havok... lmao..no armor or power drain but hey.. SMH
at this point in the game, when they are in the basic, we should be able to safely decide that we are / are not going to invest resources in specific champions.
It seems silly, but I'm starting to think that Kabam needs to provide a warning every time a player buys an offer, exchanges for a crystal, awakens or ranks a champion, or spends any money or currency on anything, that the game is subject to change at any time for balance, implementation, or any other reason, and the player should not take any action predicated on the assumption that the game won't change, because it will.
Because there is no safe time to invest in resources. You are required to agree there is no safe time to invest resources. If you do not agree, and believe the players deserve to have a guarantee of safe periods to invest resources, you're legally not allowed to play the game.
If this is something you feel you need, that's fine. Everyone needs different things from their entertainment. You shouldn't feel compelled to change your mind. But the EULA for the game you play requires you to agree. The EULA cannot force you to agree. But it prohibits you from playing the game if you don't agree.
I’d wager Kabam prefers that the players who spend money on this game feel generally safe that their investments aren’t going to depreciate at any given moment. What you describe does not seem like a business model that would encourage more spending.
In principle, the goal of balancing champions is one I think the vast majority of the player base supports. In practice, I’m not sure how genuine Kabam is around this. My last 2 5* pulls are a duped Groot and SIM. Why is it more pressing to downgrade Cull than buff these and the plethora of older champs widely regarded as trash?
The answer probably has something to do with bottom line considerations. That’s fine. At the end of the day though, a happy player base is probably good for the bottom line and I think Kabam is making unforced errors that are alienating a lot of players. I’d suggest they focus more on fixing the old trashy champs, and taking more care in testing before release. I think the developers got too cute with a lot of the newer champs given how complicated they are relative to older champs...hard to keep straight all the synergies and various interactions. Maybe they need to simplify a bit?
And also please "explain the regen" as well. Its actually an incredibly useful and underrated part of hypes kit. Great for using him for map 7 AQ and keeping potion use down
The problem is this negatively affects players and has been ill-defined. Out-damaging high damage champs is in itself meaningless. "Too much" is arbitrary. People have every right to question this proposed move and be upset. The damages shown in videos here or listed in comments fail to include the circumstances under which the numbers are seen and why those values are game breaking in that context. Are far as things being anecdotal, that is sadly what this community is limited to since we don't have access to the data kabam is saying they're using. This is the same group that used data to suggest classic cyclops as one of the most effective aq champs after all. I find this potential change unnecessary and have yet to see anything presented here by kabam or anyone else as game-breaking. Why shouldn't a high-damage champ be able to get through some paths in act 6 with synergies? Take down a boss with incoming boosted damage buffs? Where's the line of compromise between utility and damage output? So what if cull can make it a few paths easier than other champs? The vast majority of clears in content I see happen using corvus, ghost, omega. Unsubstantiated claims and changes should be addressed
I wouldn't even say Cull outdamages all champs I say he comes head to head with the top champs
Go ahead, compare damage numbers if you're so sure.
What I'm saying is this Considering how long his ramp is and how trash all his other aspects are it makes sense how high is damage is champs like Namor if you can build to 4 fries can perform similar numbers or even nick if you add up the bleed damage, and proxima can deal serious damage as well like Cull is the definition of "Impractical but Fun"
So based on your logic hyperion is impractical because the only utility he has is his poison immunity or weak heal?
What are you even saying anymore
Oh you want to know what I'm saying now? Okay. If you want to complain about one champ I'm gonna bring up a similar champ that is commonly used and widely regarded as a practical champ. Cull obsidian relies on parry and heavy attacks. Well guess who does that too? That's right... Hyperion. Guess who also has below average block proficiency. See where I'm going here? I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of the forum community that always gives Kabam the finger whenever they don't get what they want.
Yeah but the last time I checked hyperion has tons of utility while Cull has none so your point is invalid
I would like to know what utility hyperion has over cull. I'll be waiting...
At this point I don't know if you're joking or not it's actually laughable so you're saying hype has no utility at all? If that's the case you shouldn't even be in this conversation right now as you know nothing about this game
Poison immunity, stun, incinerate, regen and probably the biggest is power gain. Like you don't even play the game 😂
Hyperion has Pretty good regen, very good power gain, stun, armour break, incinerate, regen reversal with sp1, doesnt need any ramp up, furys, poison immunity,high burst damage right out the gate
Cull has High dmg, evade/auto block counter, low block prof, long and boring ramp up time parry projectiles stun and armour break and heal reversal
As someone who also spent to get Namor, Stelthy and Claire in addition to Cull I'm very worried that all that was just for a few months before they're nerfed.
Yeah but they've told you that there'd be rebalancing right? It's on you as to whether you choose to spend the money going forward?
Also don't forget that the good news is champs that aren't up to par like Ebony Maw are going to get a buff as well - so you do get that assurance on the other side of the spectrum.
How can they be more transparent than that?
What you said makes no sense @RagamugginGunner saI'd he spent for champs like Namor and they never announcedid these rebalances until after he came out so how is that fair in any way
I said "going forward".
Still doesn't change the fact that @RagamugginGunner paid for Namor expecting him to work as portrayed but now there is a chance he is gonna get nerfed so where is the transparency there
There'll always be certain champs that fall through the cracks with these things, but the good news is that going forward rebalancing is good for the game overall.
Yeah rebalances are nice if it's actually needed like why does Cull need he has no utility no health and no block proficiency all he has is damage and they are gonna nerf the only thing he is good at for what reason and not even that he has his fair share of counters to like limber,masochism, fisticuffs, etc.
The thing is, without his counters, he simply outputed way too much damage. 50k mediums, 200k sp2s, and 400k sp3s. There's no stopping him if there are no nodes against his abilities.
Actually if you want to be technical, there are more things that counter Cull than Corvus/Ghost, especially Ghost.
Ghost really doesn’t have any counters. Maw? Meh. Safeguard? Maybe.
Cull? Buffet, masochism, fisticuffs, tranquility, limited immunity, (stun) immunity, limber, mighty charge, KP, AV, CB, Rogue and I’m sure there’s plenty of stuff I can’t even think of off the cuff.
So who really needs the adjustment?
Because those champs and nodes are in every single quest
It’s not developers have no clue, it’s they don’t see how these champs will interact with new content until they are released. I honestly think this 3 month period should happen in beta form like when buffs are applied to old champs.
They should not release a champ and have people rank and spend then make the changes.
It sounds good on paper but... that will slow down the release of new champs and hurt their monthly sales
Actually yes and I’m glad you challenged me because I actually started realizing there’s more counters to him. Biohazard stops him cold. Rage, rapid metabolism, and even Taskmaster might be able to counter him if he doesn’t have many charges. Literally 5 of these paths out of 7 are in 3.2 of this month’s EQ and 1/7 isn’t noded so Cull is basically only useful for 2 paths. 5/6 quests this EQ counters him in some way.
These balance updates are great in terms of tuning champs that fall short of the general expectations of the players. I think that improving champs that are mediocre, at most, allows for diversity when playing the game. Things become repetitive and boring.
However, I do not think that changing champs that are within their expectations is a smart move. Players have bought crystals to acquire this champ and have ranked him up. I believe that it is unfair to“rebalance” a champ that people wanted because of how he was advertised. If changes were to be made, it should have been done during the first few days that the champ was released. In addition, people have spent rank up materials based on the capabilities of this champ. It is arguable that this champ out-damages other high hitting champs after being ramped up, but completing his missions is not as easy as it sounds. Was this factored in? By the time he’s reached his full potential, you’d have to have spent some items to keep him at tip top shape to fight and by this time the player is probably on the boss fight. Obviously, it depends on the skill set of the player but why choose him to complete a quest when you have other champs that may not require the use of items to complete a quest? I am not limiting this argument to cull alone. I’m just making a point that other champs will receive this type of treatment, well after people spent money/time acquiring them.
If a champ is to be rebalanced, it should be because of a bug or technical issues not intended from the start. Modifying a champ that is working as advertised is absurd. Yes, we haven’t seen or heard how the “rebalancing treatment” will affect cull, but I’m worried about future champs that will get the same changes after the fact.
I did not spend any money obtaining cull. I’m only advocating for the players that did.
Overall, the concept of rebalancing champs is necessary to prevent the game from becoming stale. Hopefully, the team does reconsider the factors that are involved in each champ and gain a new perspective when “nerfing” champs that is functioning as intended. Also, it is appreciated by most that these types of changes are communicated and not done behind the scenes.
The next two Champions to get the rebalance treatment will be Cull Obsidian and Ebony Maw. These balance updates will be limited to the tuning and balancing of a Champion's existing kit, abilities won’t be added or removed.
Ronin:
We’ve taken a look at Ronin’s performance and are happy with his both his performance and his abilities. We will not be making any balance changes to Ronin at this time.
Cull Obsidian:
After looking at our data across all the game modes we have determined that Cull Obsidian is out damaging every other high-damage Champion in the game. While he does have his limiting factors, once he's fully ramped up he is able to end fights before even high-level Opponents can do any meaningful damage to him.
The goal of Cull’s rebalance is to make tuning changes that keeps Cull Obsidian as one of the top damage dealers in-game.
Ebony Maw:
You said it and we saw it in the data. Although Ebony Maw is a decent Defender, he is underperforming as an Attacker (the designer said something about his Degeneration DPS being just sad and wrong).
We are looking to boost both his defensive and offensive potential, but with an emphasis on offense.
Cull Obsidian and Ebony Maw’s balance changes should be live in approximately 3 months.
As someone who also spent to get Namor, Stelthy and Claire in addition to Cull I'm very worried that all that was just for a few months before they're nerfed.
Yeah but they've told you that there'd be rebalancing right? It's on you as to whether you choose to spend the money going forward?
Also don't forget that the good news is champs that aren't up to par like Ebony Maw are going to get a buff as well - so you do get that assurance on the other side of the spectrum.
How can they be more transparent than that?
What you said makes no sense @RagamugginGunner saI'd he spent for champs like Namor and they never announcedid these rebalances until after he came out so how is that fair in any way
I said "going forward".
Still doesn't change the fact that @RagamugginGunner paid for Namor expecting him to work as portrayed but now there is a chance he is gonna get nerfed so where is the transparency there
There'll always be certain champs that fall through the cracks with these things, but the good news is that going forward rebalancing is good for the game overall.
Yeah rebalances are nice if it's actually needed like why does Cull need he has no utility no health and no block proficiency all he has is damage and they are gonna nerf the only thing he is good at for what reason and not even that he has his fair share of counters to like limber,masochism, fisticuffs, etc.
The thing is, without his counters, he simply outputed way too much damage. 50k mediums, 200k sp2s, and 400k sp3s. There's no stopping him if there are no nodes against his abilities.
Actually if you want to be technical, there are more things that counter Cull than Corvus/Ghost, especially Ghost.
Ghost really doesn’t have any counters. Maw? Meh. Safeguard? Maybe.
Cull? Buffet, masochism, fisticuffs, tranquility, limited immunity, (stun) immunity, limber, mighty charge, KP, AV, CB, Rogue and I’m sure there’s plenty of stuff I can’t even think of off the cuff.
So who really needs the adjustment?
Because those champs and nodes are in every single quest
It’s not developers have no clue, it’s they don’t see how these champs will interact with new content until they are released. I honestly think this 3 month period should happen in beta form like when buffs are applied to old champs.
They should not release a champ and have people rank and spend then make the changes.
It sounds good on paper but... that will slow down the release of new champs and hurt their monthly sales
Actually yes and I’m glad you challenged me because I actually started realizing there’s more counters to him. Biohazard stops him cold. Rage, rapid metabolism, and even Taskmaster might be able to counter him if he doesn’t have many charges. Literally 5 of these paths out of 7 are in 3.2 of this month’s EQ and 1/7 isn’t noded so Cull is basically only useful for
As someone who also spent to get Namor, Stelthy and Claire in addition to Cull I'm very worried that all that was just for a few months before they're nerfed.
Yeah but they've told you that there'd be rebalancing right? It's on you as to whether you choose to spend the money going forward?
Also don't forget that the good news is champs that aren't up to par like Ebony Maw are going to get a buff as well - so you do get that assurance on the other side of the spectrum.
How can they be more transparent than that?
What you said makes no sense @RagamugginGunner saI'd he spent for champs like Namor and they never announcedid these rebalances until after he came out so how is that fair in any way
I said "going forward".
Still doesn't change the fact that @RagamugginGunner paid for Namor expecting him to work as portrayed but now there is a chance he is gonna get nerfed so where is the transparency there
There'll always be certain champs that fall through the cracks with these things, but the good news is that going forward rebalancing is good for the game overall.
Yeah rebalances are nice if it's actually needed like why does Cull need he has no utility no health and no block proficiency all he has is damage and they are gonna nerf the only thing he is good at for what reason and not even that he has his fair share of counters to like limber,masochism, fisticuffs, etc.
The thing is, without his counters, he simply outputed way too much damage. 50k mediums, 200k sp2s, and 400k sp3s. There's no stopping him if there are no nodes against his abilities.
Actually if you want to be technical, there are more things that counter Cull than Corvus/Ghost, especially Ghost.
Ghost really doesn’t have any counters. Maw? Meh. Safeguard? Maybe.
Cull? Buffet, masochism, fisticuffs, tranquility, limited immunity, (stun) immunity, limber, mighty charge, KP, AV, CB, Rogue and I’m sure there’s plenty of stuff I can’t even think of off the cuff.
So who really needs the adjustment?
Because those champs and nodes are in every single quest
It’s not developers have no clue, it’s they don’t see how these champs will interact with new content until they are released. I honestly think this 3 month period should happen in beta form like when buffs are applied to old champs.
They should not release a champ and have people rank and spend then make the changes.
It sounds good on paper but... that will slow down the release of new champs and hurt their monthly sales
Actually yes and I’m glad you challenged me because I actually started realizing there’s more counters to him. Biohazard stops him cold. Rage, rapid metabolism, and even Taskmaster might be able to counter him if he doesn’t have many charges. Literally 5 of these paths out of 7 are in 3.2 of this month’s EQ and 1/7 isn’t noded so Cull is basically only useful for 1-2 paths whereas Corvus and Ghost really couldn’t care less. His counters are everywhere. 5/6 of the quests contain counters to him
@IDoge Hyperion advantage over Cull Regen, Incinerate and Stun
Just because he has incinerate doesn't make him better lol. Cull obsidian has a stun too on his sp2 if you didn't know. That regen is not worth the effort at all and removes his cosmic charges for a whole 45 seconds. Now what cull has over hyperion is the ability to negate evade and autoblock and parry projectiles which is very useful for fighting someone like imiw or havok. His damage is also extremely higher than hyperion's
Oh cool, it's not just Cull you don't understand its hyperion too
Yeah because disagreeing with your bigoted opinion shows a lack of understanding of how a champ works.
No but claiming Hyperion doesnt have any utility but Cull does sure shows it. You're either trolling or really have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. Regardless you've taken up far too much of my time than I'm okay with so into the void, with the one and only person I've ever muted here, you go
And also please "explain the regen" as well. Its actually an incredibly useful and underrated part of hypes kit. Great for using him for map 7 AQ and keeping potion use down
Right like getting to an sp3 and waiting ages for the regen to finish is useful every single fight.
Who said it was needed every single fight stop putting words in peoples mouth
Boa noite! Isto é um absurdo! Eu trabalho muito para aprimorar meus heróis! O Cull obsidian não pode ser nerfado! É um desrespeito com os players! O investimento realizado no campeão! Se isso ocorrer, analisarei a viabilidade de mover ação judicial contra a Kaban! Isso é um DESRESPEITO!!!
Translation:Good night! This is absurd! I work hard to improve my heroes! Cull obsidian can't be nerfed! It's a disrespect for the players! The investment made in the champion! If this happens, I will consider the feasibility of filing a lawsuit against Kabam! This is a disrespect !!!
Let me preview this lawsuit for those considering it.
Lawyer: Player A, did you read the terms of service? Player A: Yes I did. Lawyer: Did you read the part under the section "Right to Modify" that says Kabam has the right to modify the service at any time? Player A: Yes, but that's not fair: I don't think that's right. Lawyer: So you disagree with that clause. Player A: Yes, I do. Lawyer: So you didn't agree to the terms of service, and you thus have no valid agreement to play the game. Why did you play the game if you didn't agree to all the terms of the agreement. That's theft of service. Player A: But they cheated me! Lawyer: How can they cheat someone who was stealing access to the service in the first place? You had no right to anything at all if you were stealing the service.
The question of what's reasonable here is open for discussion. But for those who think *claiming* to be considering a lawsuit or *claiming* to be talking to a lawyer means anything, it doesn't. I doubt you could convince a lawyer to take the case, but if you happen to find a lawyer brave or crazy enough to do so, the first thing this lawyer will do is tell you to stop talking, because everything you say here on the forums or elsewhere can be collected by discovery and used against you. The only way you can demonstrate you're serious about attempting a lawsuit is to disappear. If you're still here, you're bluffing.
One of the most common unenforceable terms is the unilateral amendment provision, which gives a company the right to change its agreement however it wants, whenever it wants, with or without notifying its customers. Courts have repeatedly found this term unenforceable.
I don't believe suing is the right thing to do. We need to have a open conversation with Kabam and testing a champion before release should be exhausted.
Unilateral amendment provisions are enforceable when notice is given, and the right to modify clause has been in there forever so you couldn't argue that this was a unilateral amendment sprung on anyone.
But that's besides the point. As you say, a player could argue that the term or even the entire agreement is unenforceable. That makes it void. And my example follows your line of reasoning: by declaring the contract void, the player has no right to play the game anymore. The player cannot argue that the terms of service allow him or her to play the game, but its terms are not enforceable on them. Either they accept the TOS and accept the terms, or they walk away from the TOS and it no longer applies to them, but they also don't have the right to access the game.
I agree suing is not the best avenue. I'm simply stating it is also ineffective, and the correct conversation should be on what's reasonable, not what's legal. The moment a player attempts to use the nuclear option, they are going to find they aren't actually the ones in possession of any of the nuclear weapons. All it does is give people the illusion they have leverage they don't actually have.
We could be spending the time asking for more details about the nature of the issue with Cull, or discussing alternatives that the devs could consider. In the current climate, I'm not sure it would do anything, but there's always the next one, and the next one. There will be others. If the only thing that happens is a bunch of accusations and threats, all we're doing is shutting ourselves completely out of the loop. The developers currently working on Cull don't have to listen to us, and almost certainly aren't reading this thread. They might be persuaded to listen to interesting ideas they could actually use, if the discussion went that way. But I honestly think people enjoy complaining more than trying to improve things.
To be frank, I think I would get better results if I wrote my thoughts on a postcard and sent it to Kabam's offices, than I would posting in the thread. It shouldn't be that way. The best place to focus feedback should be the forums, not the worst place.
Comments
They don't make any more money by doing this, but it's the right thing to do.
In principle, the goal of balancing champions is one I think the vast majority of the player base supports. In practice, I’m not sure how genuine Kabam is around this. My last 2 5* pulls are a duped Groot and SIM. Why is it more pressing to downgrade Cull than buff these and the plethora of older champs widely regarded as trash?
The answer probably has something to do with bottom line considerations. That’s fine. At the end of the day though, a happy player base is probably good for the bottom line and I think Kabam is making unforced errors that are alienating a lot of players. I’d suggest they focus more on fixing the old trashy champs, and taking more care in testing before release. I think the developers got too cute with a lot of the newer champs given how complicated they are relative to older champs...hard to keep straight all the synergies and various interactions. Maybe they need to simplify a bit?
Pretty good regen, very good power gain, stun, armour break, incinerate, regen reversal with sp1, doesnt need any ramp up, furys, poison immunity,high burst damage right out the gate
Cull has
High dmg, evade/auto block counter, low block prof, long and boring ramp up time parry projectiles stun and armour break and heal reversal
So really who is better... *cough hyperion cough*
However, I do not think that changing champs that are within their expectations is a smart move. Players have bought crystals to acquire this champ and have ranked him up. I believe that it is unfair to“rebalance” a champ that people wanted because of how he was advertised. If changes were to be made, it should have been done during the first few days that the champ was released. In addition, people have spent rank up materials based on the capabilities of this champ. It is arguable that this champ out-damages other high hitting champs after being ramped up, but completing his missions is not as easy as it sounds. Was this factored in? By the time he’s reached his full potential, you’d have to have spent some items to keep him at tip top shape to fight and by this time the player is probably on the boss fight. Obviously, it depends on the skill set of the player but why choose him to complete a quest when you have other champs that may not require the use of items to complete a quest? I am not limiting this argument to cull alone. I’m just making a point that other champs will receive this type of treatment, well after people spent money/time acquiring them.
If a champ is to be rebalanced, it should be because of a bug or technical issues not intended from the start. Modifying a champ that is working as advertised is absurd. Yes, we haven’t seen or heard how the “rebalancing treatment” will affect cull, but I’m worried about future champs that will get the same changes after the fact.
I did not spend any money obtaining cull. I’m only advocating for the players that did.
Overall, the concept of rebalancing champs is necessary to prevent the game from becoming stale. Hopefully, the team does reconsider the factors that are involved in each champ and gain a new perspective when “nerfing” champs that is functioning as intended. Also, it is appreciated by most that these types of changes are communicated and not done behind the scenes.
But that's besides the point. As you say, a player could argue that the term or even the entire agreement is unenforceable. That makes it void. And my example follows your line of reasoning: by declaring the contract void, the player has no right to play the game anymore. The player cannot argue that the terms of service allow him or her to play the game, but its terms are not enforceable on them. Either they accept the TOS and accept the terms, or they walk away from the TOS and it no longer applies to them, but they also don't have the right to access the game.
I agree suing is not the best avenue. I'm simply stating it is also ineffective, and the correct conversation should be on what's reasonable, not what's legal. The moment a player attempts to use the nuclear option, they are going to find they aren't actually the ones in possession of any of the nuclear weapons. All it does is give people the illusion they have leverage they don't actually have.
We could be spending the time asking for more details about the nature of the issue with Cull, or discussing alternatives that the devs could consider. In the current climate, I'm not sure it would do anything, but there's always the next one, and the next one. There will be others. If the only thing that happens is a bunch of accusations and threats, all we're doing is shutting ourselves completely out of the loop. The developers currently working on Cull don't have to listen to us, and almost certainly aren't reading this thread. They might be persuaded to listen to interesting ideas they could actually use, if the discussion went that way. But I honestly think people enjoy complaining more than trying to improve things.
To be frank, I think I would get better results if I wrote my thoughts on a postcard and sent it to Kabam's offices, than I would posting in the thread. It shouldn't be that way. The best place to focus feedback should be the forums, not the worst place.