Kabam even made a point of saying not every champ is for attack an some are just great for defence, the whole point of a WAR is to fight kill an stomp your opponent to death, it's great to see your defence get loads of kills an they actually contribute to the win
Ok so people that are skilled and spent time ranking up the best defenders for war hate diversity. And the ones without the best defensive champs and probably less skilled want diversity. Me personally I think the diversity thing is stupid and I just got what I needed to r5 my NC for defense but haven't yet to see how this plays out. But it doesn't seem like diversity is going away so this would perhaps he the best option for both camps. Bring back defensive kills for those that have spent time and resources setting up the defense they have wanted and keep diversity (for each BG not the whole alliance) for those that don't have the best defensive champs and let each alliance decide how they want to play it. Based on skill or based on strategy. This way rank down tickets don't have to be handed out to everyone and both sides get what they want. It is war after all and for some alliances using 10 NC, 10 magik, 10 juggs might be there best way to win and others it might be throwing in LC, KK, IP, and some of the other lackluster champs in the game. It is braun vs. brain but don't force any alliance to play to their weakness. Diversity can add another element of strategy if it is done the right way, but so far it hasn't been. So if it is staying make it right and do what is right by the other side opposing it and bring back defender kills.
I wonder if introducing diversity might force people to rank garbage champs rather than hoarding resources and is designed around artificially creating a need for 4* that no one would bother with now that 5* pool is expanding and 6* are coming.
May as well use maxed 3* in defence and still hoard the good stuff.
@Draco2199 If I'm not mistaken, the new setup will curb that. It will take time to rebalance, but with Defender Kills removed, it allows for a more even playing field. Diversity is easy to consider with as many Champs as we have. As long as the opposition has sufficient Attack, they have a chance of winning. The problem was widely prominent when said Allies that were cherry picking were able to accumulate Defender Kills. I don't think it's been swept under the rug. I think it will be rebalanced.
Also, you're not alone in your concern. It may be within the rules, but it's created a monopoly on positions. It affects the entire system because when the top is retaining their position from doing so, everything under them is stunted. There is only so much progression that can happen when there is some kind of loophole ensuring homeostasis. It's an interdependent system that is Tiered. Anything at any juncture besides the very bottom affects everything under it.
TL:DR - I hear what you're saying. That's an unfair situation, and I'm speculating that the new changes will help.
Can someone answer those questions please?
1) What is the point on grinding arena champions and opening featured cristals for the entire ally if just one placed heroes count for point porpouse?
2) Now that the entire ally have rancked to r5 a 4* or r4 a 5* like mordo, Dorma, Magik, Jug, Nc, and spidy, what we do with those champs? we litteraly waste a lot of resource.
@Draco2199 If I'm not mistaken, the new setup will curb that. It will take time to rebalance, but with Defender Kills removed, it allows for a more even playing field. Diversity is easy to consider with as many Champs as we have. As long as the opposition has sufficient Attack, they have a chance of winning. The problem was widely prominent when said Allies that were cherry picking were able to accumulate Defender Kills. I don't think it's been swept under the rug. I think it will be rebalanced.
Also, you're not alone in your concern. It may be within the rules, but it's created a monopoly on positions. It affects the entire system because when the top is retaining their position from doing so, everything under them is stunted. There is only so much progression that can happen when there is some kind of loophole ensuring homeostasis. It's an interdependent system that is Tiered. Anything at any juncture besides the very bottom affects everything under it.
TL:DR - I hear what you're saying. That's an unfair situation, and I'm speculating that the new changes will help.
Are you able to acknowledge that Kabam makes mistakes too? Because -- like everyone -- they do. Companies are successful not because they fail to acknowledge mistakes, but because they learn from them.
If both alliances clear the map 100% (which is quite possible, we've ranged from 98-100% in t2/t3 since 15.0 ... IMO we should be clearing all, but sometimes someone doesn't finish their line or their miniboss -- we don't spend), then wins will be based on two things: diversity and defender rating. That is obviously poor design.
You're entitled to your opinion. I expressed mine on what Draco was concerned about. I'm not getting into the debate of whether it's good or bad anymore. I have no issues with the changes. I had no issue with the old system, and I have no issues with this one. That's my feelings on it. I understand what the new setup does and what its aim is. I also understand the problems that arose before the changes. So, no. I'm not siding with the idea that it's a bad design because I don't agree. I'm not interested in debating it anymore. I'm not on the bandwagon. It's change. It's different than it was. At the end of the day, it's about getting the most Points. If that means having a chance instead of being penalized for trying and getting overpowered before the fight even starts, I'm cool with it.
Funnily enough I think the old map layout would have been more suited to the new points system. It would force alliances to use a bit strategy and decide whether to fill their defence with 'good' defenders to stop the opponent competing / exploring the map, or fill the defence with diverse defenders, knowing that your defence will be weaker but you'll pick up more diversity points.
As thing stand there's no dilemma - diversity rules over all. You can fill your defence with all of the top defenders but they'll still be walked over due to the weak nodes. It doesn't matter if you stick Mordo or Spider Gwen down. It doesn't even matter 'where' you put defenders apart from the odd one or two nodes.
When Kabam first mentioned diversity brings a tie breaker it didn't sound too bad, but then it became apparent that due to the map layout pretty much ever war will end up being decided on the tie breaker.
Bring back the old AW! What is this? People are asking if someone has a different champ. Why did we grind in arena and rank up all the defenders we have?
You are killing the game. Why don't you listen to the players? We are playing the game not you! People will stop playing this game very soon
Well here is my 2 cents from a member of a top 3 alliance in the game regarding the war changes. I really don't mind them but these changes were brought about by the community and the countless threads demanding change to AW. Let me explain how I have come to this conclusion.
1) My RNG sucks I have useless champ good for nothing in the game. This was a common thread on these forums, guess what that R3 5* hulkbuster is no longer useless even if he does not get defender kills cause he grants more defender rating then a 3/4* version.
2) I am sick of the top alliances making shell alliances. This was also another common thread on these forums, well they have lowered the difficulty of the nodes so people no longer have to create shell alliances because the fight to 100% the map no longer costs more units then the rewards are worth (an equal work/reward ratio) and you can actually complete maps in the tier you should be in.
3) the big alliances are fixing matchmaking to avoid each other. Another common complaint that is posted here quite often. Guess what with defender kills being removed, the map difficulty toned done to an equal reward/work ratio alliances no longer care about possibly missing a third war to avoid matchmaking each other. As an example MMX lost to A-H just recently (last night) so this new system can work in the under dogs favor if your smart.
So in conclusion you guys complain Kabam doesn't listen but in matter of fact this current abomination we now have called war is because they listened and tried to address all the Whitney self entitled children who frequent these forums. As the old saying goes "be careful what you wish for cause you might just get it".
1) RNG sucks for many and HB sucks too. So there are many champs in game that are useless in offense or defense. So instead of demanding kabam to buff these champs, you want to make AW garbage just to accommodate those crappy champs.
2) There is no "an equal work/reward ratio" under new setup. Almost every ally can 100% now in new map. Wars are decided purely by diversity/defender rating. So AW is already decided even before you start attacking. Anyone who can buy new champs will win or anyone with rare champs like OG vision kang thanos will win. How is this setup fair. Its a completely one sided setup which heavily favors spenders or ally with higher rating.
3) Did you even see the stats btw MMX-AH matchup. They got full diversity but lost because A-H placed 5 less defenders, after nerfing attack kill points it wont happen anymore.
Actually that is not why they won but glad you buy into it like they want you to. They actually did something that no one had done yet in war and that is what got them the win not placing 5 less defenders.
From what I have seen from war screen that was posted on Reddit, thats the only thing I could find. We will be glad to know what you meant by this - "They actually did something that no one had done yet in war " ???
AH placed champs with suicide masteries. They won because of defender rating.
Some suggestions
- Let kills count, even if it is a small amount of points but we should get something for decent defense. (its war not a dance)
- Instead of giving us points for diversity penalise a team for placing too many dupes i.e. 3 magiks. This will allow us to use our favourite champs and give a bit more flexibility in placement (not fun for officers).
- Make a few nodes a little harder (too easy to get 100%)
- Please stop brushing our concerns aside. more players enjoying the game = more profits for you
Bring back old AW!! I, with alot of my alliance members are having a hard time getting into the new AW. 100% map clear and win on diversity....yawn. Wars used to be strategic with defender kills, you had to think of the best possible way to work with your team to clear the map. HUGE disappointment imo. Im already hearing people finally have a decent excuse to retire from the game
Hold up, there's a lot of straight up BS going on around here.
@Draco2199 - Don't make me laugh. You couldn't survive in an elite alliance for one hour. It's not all about spending, you actually need to be skilled to make it - even though we all know the top 3 have AW pilots lol. Map 6 multiple days a week when starting prestige is probably higher than your prestige on day 3 is not something you can just pay to finish. Stop with the nonsense.
@Grub - I'm not in the top 3 but I'm very close. My ally doesn't have to worry at all about diversity. Still, just coz people like you and me worked harder and spent money doesn't mean the win should be automatic, which it is. We will probably benefit in terms of rewards, but AW is just not fun at all anymore. There should be some skill to it. Now, there is none.
I've been in a top 10 alliance until I semi retired a few months ago. I'm one of the more skilled players in the game and I've spent more than you probably paid for your house on this game. I've run Map 6x5 without using items so please stop with your nonsense. You don't know me I was a big time whale in the game until my semi retirement. But thanks for assuming I don't know what I'm talking about, I actually really do and I know all the "exploits we used to use" which didn't make the game fun. The truth is you can't win with skill anymore against top alliances. Thats the problem. And yes Top Alliances all account share with AQ and AW but Kabam won't do anything about it and we all know that. This has been known for years and Kabam was suppose to look into it but turned a blind eye. Not sure why.
First off, I don't believe you for a second. If you ever were in an elite ally you would know there is no one in the top that isn't skilled.
Secondly, your entire attitude tells me you're a BS artist.]
Third, LOL. You know nothing about my life. If you had spent as much as I paid for my house in this game, there would be a statue of you in the Kabam HQ, and a champ named after you.
Revert it for the love of god. Diversity is beyond stupid and your punishing people for ranking up champs in your old system.i want rdt if this system stays period. It should not. This is worse then 12.0 imo because now everyone's favorite mode in game is worthless and boring. Not only that but my work for a solid defense destroyed rewards not greater then before. More time in game moving. This game is getting more stale everyday and the idiots running it have no clue what's going on. the whole new wars need to be scraped and left alone until you can actually put something out that isn't complete garbage.
Solution: everyone hates mystic wars so easy solution update the rewards for each tier. Until you can decide the new map and nodes. It's that simple if I get better rewards I will work harder.
I don't hate mystic wars, so "everyone" does not hate mystic wars.
This whole change is coming way to quick and was not thought out at all. Then another change but doesn't solve the initial change. Kabam stop being blundering idiots. You have no idea how this game plays or works just shut your mouths for once and actually listen to your player base. NOBODY WANTS THIS KIND OF WAR. I would rather fight a whole line of dorms magiks etc then have to completely make a new defense from scratch. Sounds stupid right? Like six star right? Starting over is what your forcing everyone to do which is why we're all pissed beyond belief. Only the top allies is where it won't matter much sense they have everything me the little guy exculpating 300k+ doesn't have the resources to completely revamp my roster for "diversity ". Just like pure skill detect it's being swept under the rug because kabam is and will never be a company that actually does anything. Let me guess games broken but hey here's a 4&5* offer. Why would anyone buy this **** when your game is broken and the offers are not even worth it when the champs continue to be irrelevant and worth nothing? Where's the stupid 5* pg vision sale? Oh wait he's not a force star since he's to useful? Why is it you will nerf champs and not make them 5*? That's the million dolllar question.
Back on topic war was my favorite thing in game to do watch my defense do work and watch myself drop those mini bosses. Now I can fight nodes blindfolded and with one hand. It's that easy not to say I'm the best but it's so bland throw in diversity and nothing is a challenge at all. You might as well call this bases. Because in no way shape or form is this a war. The champs are diverse enough. You want a new goal we'll update your old useless champs to actually do something worth the diversity? Go figure we have great ideas but you don't use them to any capacity. You have completely killed the fun of war so much that I don't even care to login after I took my mini boss down I never checked my defense no point there going to clear 100% anyway. So yeah I play war a lot less and if anything I'm actually starting to be less involved in the game more then ever before. Your game is stale and repetitive. With minimal rewards. I'm not going to ask for a boycott although 12.0 should have never happened. The only ones in that exchange that lost was the entire community. But I'm continuing my stance on not spending and i hope the rest of the community didn't buy the offers. All your doing is allowing them to backdoor us completely. Anyways I doubt this will do much if anything just wanted to rant lol
@Draco2199 If I'm not mistaken, the new setup will curb that. It will take time to rebalance, but with Defender Kills removed, it allows for a more even playing field. Diversity is easy to consider with as many Champs as we have. As long as the opposition has sufficient Attack, they have a chance of winning. The problem was widely prominent when said Allies that were cherry picking were able to accumulate Defender Kills. I don't think it's been swept under the rug. I think it will be rebalanced.
Also, you're not alone in your concern. It may be within the rules, but it's created a monopoly on positions. It affects the entire system because when the top is retaining their position from doing so, everything under them is stunted. There is only so much progression that can happen when there is some kind of loophole ensuring homeostasis. It's an interdependent system that is Tiered. Anything at any juncture besides the very bottom affects everything under it.
TL:DR - I hear what you're saying. That's an unfair situation, and I'm speculating that the new changes will help.
I agree AW was an event that bring people together in this game across alliances. Every other game mode is solo or within your alliance like AQ.
War was competitive and made us think about defense and strategy. It was the only game mode we have some influence creating a unique experience.( sure that was room for improvement and sometimes match making is wonky)
But the current AW format offer little interactions and only strategy is "race to the flag"
I can go on and on about it but I agree with an early point.... with this release you took away what was once great and took years to refine
I know I've said it before, and so have many others before me, but I'm going to keep on saying it till someone actually listens. Fix alliance wars before you kill the game altogether.
@Draco2199 If I'm not mistaken, the new setup will curb that. It will take time to rebalance, but with Defender Kills removed, it allows for a more even playing field. Diversity is easy to consider with as many Champs as we have. As long as the opposition has sufficient Attack, they have a chance of winning. The problem was widely prominent when said Allies that were cherry picking were able to accumulate Defender Kills. I don't think it's been swept under the rug. I think it will be rebalanced.
Also, you're not alone in your concern. It may be within the rules, but it's created a monopoly on positions. It affects the entire system because when the top is retaining their position from doing so, everything under them is stunted. There is only so much progression that can happen when there is some kind of loophole ensuring homeostasis. It's an interdependent system that is Tiered. Anything at any juncture besides the very bottom affects everything under it.
TL:DR - I hear what you're saying. That's an unfair situation, and I'm speculating that the new changes will help.
Ok explain how you have a chance at winning vs a top 10 alliance? Or a substantially higher alliance you get matched against.
1. Your defender rating will be lower.
2. Your diversity will be lower.
3. 100% completion for both.....
Oh wait you already lost because of 1 & 2 no matter what you do. How is it "even" now when no matter what a smaller alliance does if both 100% they have no chance? AW map is a breeze most skilled players can clear it without any items. But skill doesn't matter anymore. Now its your roster so its AQ and prestige all over again.
Lol. This discussion is hilarious. Obviously people dont understand the diversity. The map is easy to complete. Place a diverse defense. Who cares about rank. They are gonna get beat! A smaller alliance can beat a bigger alliance with diversity. This does make it so smaller alliance have a chance. Take the time to coordinate a diverse defense. And 100% the map!
yes, the map is very easy to 100%, however, those bigger alliances tend to have more diverse rosters (i.e., classic ultron, kang, thanos, og DP) ... so you are incorrect in that smaller alliances can beat bigger more diverse alliances.
If new scoring system is to stay, the matchmaking screen should be re-designed to be more like a slot machine, once a match is found, immediately choose the winner based on which alliance is more 'diverse' - war over, rewards given out.
Lol. This discussion is hilarious. Obviously people dont understand the diversity. The map is easy to complete. Place a diverse defense. Who cares about rank. They are gonna get beat! A smaller alliance can beat a bigger alliance with diversity. This does make it so smaller alliance have a chance. Take the time to coordinate a diverse defense. And 100% the map!
yes, the map is very easy to 100%, however, those bigger alliances tend to have more diverse rosters (i.e., classic ultron, kang, thanos, og DP) ... so you are incorrect in that smaller alliances can beat bigger more diverse alliances.
If new scoring system is to stay, the matchmaking screen should be re-designed to be more like a slot machine, once a match is found, immediately choose the winner based on which alliance is more 'diverse' - war over, rewards given out.
Yeah he probably got lucky the past week that his alliance was against opponents who didn't understand the scoring system. Once everyone is on the same page it pretty much guarantees bigger alliances will always beat smaller alliances. Then we'll see who is complaining.
Are you willing to keep this absurd scoring system were defenders kills and even attackers kills count less than diversity?
Or are you taking any of the several good suggestions given in these posts or by Seatin/ Brian Grant and other youtubers?
I hope you'll listen to your players base and provide some viable options to your customers...to keep having fun in AW.
Lol. This discussion is hilarious. Obviously people dont understand the diversity. The map is easy to complete. Place a diverse defense. Who cares about rank. They are gonna get beat! A smaller alliance can beat a bigger alliance with diversity. This does make it so smaller alliance have a chance. Take the time to coordinate a diverse defense. And 100% the map!
How can a smaller alliance beat a bigger alliance? You will lose on defense rating and diversity automatically.
Yeah! Again! If your SMALL alliance is facing one of them then you are probably not ready for that tier
I think you may not be understanding the complaint.
My alliance for example is almost 9 mil in tier 2 war. We always face opponents rated higher than us with a higher defender rating than us and we win a decent amount of the time. We are going to place every playable champ outside of Ultron classic and Thanos.
We now literally can not win against a higher rated alliance who places with the same or better (having Ultron classic or Thanos) diversity. Also, we will not lose against teams who place less than 105 unique champs.
That system is entirely broken. This is now a contest of organization.
Assume an alliance we face is better than us and has 103 unique champs (no Kang or Kingpin for example) we will automatically win. That is absurd.
All alliances can have the diversity. But everyone wants to complain they arent strong enough. The diversity is what get you the points. Not the strength of the diverse champs! Higher alliances will have some kangs and classic ultrons.But og vision was available to all. So those 3 champs will just make it impossible huh?
So you are basically saying that skill shouldn't matter in a CONTEST OF CHAMPIONS lol. Why don't we just have autofight for AW then?
Comments
May as well use maxed 3* in defence and still hoard the good stuff.
Also, you're not alone in your concern. It may be within the rules, but it's created a monopoly on positions. It affects the entire system because when the top is retaining their position from doing so, everything under them is stunted. There is only so much progression that can happen when there is some kind of loophole ensuring homeostasis. It's an interdependent system that is Tiered. Anything at any juncture besides the very bottom affects everything under it.
TL:DR - I hear what you're saying. That's an unfair situation, and I'm speculating that the new changes will help.
1) What is the point on grinding arena champions and opening featured cristals for the entire ally if just one placed heroes count for point porpouse?
2) Now that the entire ally have rancked to r5 a 4* or r4 a 5* like mordo, Dorma, Magik, Jug, Nc, and spidy, what we do with those champs? we litteraly waste a lot of resource.
Rank down tickets don't do anything.
It's like using duct tape to fix a home's broken foundation. It only bandaids the situation.
AW is completely broken.
Challenger is the problem every time the generation of stars gets released.
These need to be overhauled, giving rank down tickets doesn't solve anything.
As thing stand there's no dilemma - diversity rules over all. You can fill your defence with all of the top defenders but they'll still be walked over due to the weak nodes. It doesn't matter if you stick Mordo or Spider Gwen down. It doesn't even matter 'where' you put defenders apart from the odd one or two nodes.
When Kabam first mentioned diversity brings a tie breaker it didn't sound too bad, but then it became apparent that due to the map layout pretty much ever war will end up being decided on the tie breaker.
100% agree
And boosted aswell I believe (not sure)
- Let kills count, even if it is a small amount of points but we should get something for decent defense. (its war not a dance)
- Instead of giving us points for diversity penalise a team for placing too many dupes i.e. 3 magiks. This will allow us to use our favourite champs and give a bit more flexibility in placement (not fun for officers).
- Make a few nodes a little harder (too easy to get 100%)
- Please stop brushing our concerns aside. more players enjoying the game = more profits for you
There probably is.
I don't hate mystic wars, so "everyone" does not hate mystic wars.
Back on topic war was my favorite thing in game to do watch my defense do work and watch myself drop those mini bosses. Now I can fight nodes blindfolded and with one hand. It's that easy not to say I'm the best but it's so bland throw in diversity and nothing is a challenge at all. You might as well call this bases. Because in no way shape or form is this a war. The champs are diverse enough. You want a new goal we'll update your old useless champs to actually do something worth the diversity? Go figure we have great ideas but you don't use them to any capacity. You have completely killed the fun of war so much that I don't even care to login after I took my mini boss down I never checked my defense no point there going to clear 100% anyway. So yeah I play war a lot less and if anything I'm actually starting to be less involved in the game more then ever before. Your game is stale and repetitive. With minimal rewards. I'm not going to ask for a boycott although 12.0 should have never happened. The only ones in that exchange that lost was the entire community. But I'm continuing my stance on not spending and i hope the rest of the community didn't buy the offers. All your doing is allowing them to backdoor us completely. Anyways I doubt this will do much if anything just wanted to rant lol
Wrong.
War was competitive and made us think about defense and strategy. It was the only game mode we have some influence creating a unique experience.( sure that was room for improvement and sometimes match making is wonky)
But the current AW format offer little interactions and only strategy is "race to the flag"
I can go on and on about it but I agree with an early point.... with this release you took away what was once great and took years to refine
Ok explain how you have a chance at winning vs a top 10 alliance? Or a substantially higher alliance you get matched against.
1. Your defender rating will be lower.
2. Your diversity will be lower.
3. 100% completion for both.....
Oh wait you already lost because of 1 & 2 no matter what you do. How is it "even" now when no matter what a smaller alliance does if both 100% they have no chance? AW map is a breeze most skilled players can clear it without any items. But skill doesn't matter anymore. Now its your roster so its AQ and prestige all over again.
yes, the map is very easy to 100%, however, those bigger alliances tend to have more diverse rosters (i.e., classic ultron, kang, thanos, og DP) ... so you are incorrect in that smaller alliances can beat bigger more diverse alliances.
If new scoring system is to stay, the matchmaking screen should be re-designed to be more like a slot machine, once a match is found, immediately choose the winner based on which alliance is more 'diverse' - war over, rewards given out.
Yeah he probably got lucky the past week that his alliance was against opponents who didn't understand the scoring system. Once everyone is on the same page it pretty much guarantees bigger alliances will always beat smaller alliances. Then we'll see who is complaining.
@Kabam Miike @Kabam Vydious people here would like an official reply about recent AW changes.
Are you willing to keep this absurd scoring system were defenders kills and even attackers kills count less than diversity?
Or are you taking any of the several good suggestions given in these posts or by Seatin/ Brian Grant and other youtubers?
I hope you'll listen to your players base and provide some viable options to your customers...to keep having fun in AW.
My post applies to that update.
How can a smaller alliance beat a bigger alliance? You will lose on defense rating and diversity automatically.
I think you may not be understanding the complaint.
My alliance for example is almost 9 mil in tier 2 war. We always face opponents rated higher than us with a higher defender rating than us and we win a decent amount of the time. We are going to place every playable champ outside of Ultron classic and Thanos.
We now literally can not win against a higher rated alliance who places with the same or better (having Ultron classic or Thanos) diversity. Also, we will not lose against teams who place less than 105 unique champs.
That system is entirely broken. This is now a contest of organization.
Assume an alliance we face is better than us and has 103 unique champs (no Kang or Kingpin for example) we will automatically win. That is absurd.
So you are basically saying that skill shouldn't matter in a CONTEST OF CHAMPIONS lol. Why don't we just have autofight for AW then?