Ok genuine question Miike. What was the thought process behind dialing back the variant content in the first place? Like what makes you look at the overwhelmingly positive feedback and think let’s do less of these.
So is it too soon. Or stupid of me to read into that reducing the attack values in act 6 might mean the cav difficulty might not be as barbaric as i think? I know its a ways off and there is probably little to go on. But i just got cav and to the point i could complete uc eq. Save the git gud comments. With work eq war im spread thin so completing with 3rd string roster is pretty good in my eyes. But the crossbones fight sucked such a pain in the ass sentinel too was not fun for me. And if there isnt a rewards buff or refresh at the uc level i may be fd in the a here.
If that's what you think just *some* of the resources you spent on Act 6 are worth, why did you do Act 6 in the first place? I mean this is arguably comparable to and within a small radius of Act 6's completion and exploration rewards combined. If you think the difference between what you did spend and what you would have spent is that high, you arguably spent more to complete the content than it was worth to you in the first place. You can't be rewarded for spending excessively to complete content.
Compensation can't be based on what everyone spent to do it, because that's saying the more someone spent, the less skillfully they completed it, the more they deserve to be rewarded for that. That's simply illogical.
How is it illogical to base compensation on how much units or resources someone spent? Whether someone is superior in skill or less skilled, the resources they would have used would be less because of the drastic change in attack rating and other changes to bosses like The Champion. A player who used 1000 units might use 600 units with the nerf. A player who used 10K units might use 7K units with the nerf.
If Kabam did not collect info on how much everyone spent to 100% Act 6, then it is impossible to compensate us individually. But Kabam can create testbeds to established baseline of how much on average is spent for Act 6. For example, testers can complete a normal path and then the same path with the nerf and see the difference. If the test or experiment is done scientifically and with honesty, the difference in units use would be a good starting point for the compensation.
I don't think my post was clear to you. In the context of the rest of the post, what I intended to convey was that specific individuals cannot assert that the compensation for Act 6 changes should be based on their own personal expenditures because that would then mean, as I said, that people who spent more would think the compensation should be higher, and those who spent less would think the compensation should be lower. If we set compensation to the average, say, like you seem to be suggesting, then every single player above the average expenditure who thought that way would say the compensation was too low, and for the players who spent way over the average they would think the compensation would be ridiculously too low. So you can't judge by just your own expenditures, because if everyone did that almost no one would judge the compensation as appropriate. There needs to be a compensation metric that is independent of individual anecdotes of expense, that all reasonable people can agree is logical irrespective of whether it returns comparable resources to them personally than they spent.
Even is people are asserting that compensation be based on their individual expenditure (even if it can’t be implemented because Kabam might not have the data), it doesn’t make it illogical. That is actually fair to receive back a proportional amount you spent. If It is now easier because of nerf and if on the average people would spend 30% less, then returning back 30% is fair. It’s not illogical.
If there is no data to give back proportional amount to everyone, then having some compensation metrics is the next fair thing to do. And of course, when we use the average, some will get more and some will get less.
They gave a tentative for what they have. They can't give time frames for what they don't have yet. It's a detailed look into what they're working on. It isn't an itinerary.
Dude, movies can get a timeframe when a script is just being written. Your going to tell me they can't give one from the development team here. I find that very hard to believe.
I've worked in movies, and I can tell you that this is not how that works. Game Development is also a very different beast and you can't compare. We don't have timelines yet because we don't have a final list of what we want to do. Exploration of Data takes time, and then so does coming up with what changes we need to make to address those issues, and depending on the scale... we could be looking at weeks or months just to implement them.
While it is true that some things can't be nailed down until you get the final details, that doesn't mean that everything is still up in the air does it?
For example, there was no mention of any kind of reward boosts at all for the event quest, even though everyone knows they badly need a boost, the same with arena rewards, and basically everything in the game needs a reward boost. They are all stuck in 2017 levels.
The Calendar is way outdated as well, but no comments on that either?
All Kabam has to do is say for starters, we are increasing 4* & 5* & 6* shards, T1A, T2A, and whatever else at a minimum (based on tiers). We might make further adjustments down the road as we near release date, but we can guarantee at a minimum the rewards we have posted are part of the progress you will see throughout the Contest.
Instead, we get silence, so, it is just kicking the can down the road.
Thank you for listening your summoners concerning act 6, cavalier difficulty etc... Thank you for all the creativity you have and the way you use it to better all the already existing content. There are probably a lot more to do, like arena, champions rework....but at least you are working on it and now we know it.
Here are the act 6 bosses that I would classify as “pain points” (Mostly the fights I HAD to use quake for): 6.1.2 (Ultron), 6.1.5 (Crossbones), 6.1.6 (Sentinel), 6.2.2 (Sinister), 6.2.5 (Mordo), 6.2.6 (The Champion), 6.3.1 (Medusa- big pain point), 6.3.4 (Iron Man), 6.3.5 (Mysterio), 6.4.3 (Darkhawk), and 6.4.5 (Hydra Adaptoid)
They know what the pain points are. Can we just stop it? They have data on item usage. They don’t need a freaking conversation to tell them what has cost the most items. It’s just a delay tactic.
For example, there was no mention of any kind of reward boosts at all for the event quest, even though everyone knows they badly need a boost, the same with arena rewards, and basically everything in the game needs a reward boost. They are all stuck in 2017 levels.
Everyone doesn't know this. I don't know this, for example, and I know many people who also don't know this, but have better things to do with their life than accumulate anonymous disagree flags and have people say they are out of touch.
I'm already on record as saying just randomly boosting rewards causes problems, and what's more I've been right twice in a row in the past: when the devs boosted 5* shards to the point of forcing 6* champs into the game, and when they opened the floodgates on T4CC, which put us into a permanent catalyst arms race that is still ringing today, with people saying the game's gold rewards are broken because they can't use the hundred T2A they have expiring.
Saying rewards are stuck at 2017 levels is like saying the ladder you own has steps still stuck in 2017 levels, and you now need a ladder where the steps are now three feet apart instead of eighteen inches apart. Rewards should be balanced around the content and progression of the game, not around humans who need increasingly shiny things.
Are there reward issues? Sure. There's obviously a problem with champion acquisition at or higher than UC: the game doesn't give enough of the right rewards to fuel player's roster progress into Act 6. There's obviously a problem with champion rank up rewards for Cavalier players because the devs want players to be experimental and broaden their champion use, but rank up rewards for 5* champs are still balanced around having a few high ranks and not broadly ranked up rosters. There are certain specific targeted reward issues that need specific targeted solutions.
But the event quest, the arena, the calendar? The main complaint about those rewards is that they are "outdated" not that they fail to serve the progress requirements for them. Progress requirements don't change over time. Players expectations do, but we can't satisfy the people who demand more and more and more just because they got a new free calendar at the bank. Nor should Kabam even try, if it comes at the expense of a more reasonable future of the game for everyone else. I'm not looking forward to Kabam racing through the last two ranks of 6* champs and introducing 7* champs that restarts the top tier power arms race again. No player in the game is more than one rank higher than me, because rank 3 is the only rank above me that even exists. And I myself am not that much higher than any other Cavalier player, although my roster is probably a bit wider. And the game is much better that way for everyone, with a compressed progress range.
So yeah, everyone doesn't know that Kabam should just be announcing reward increases everywhere. Increasing rewards just because of what year it is causes tremendous harm. It is just hard to point to that harm because it is spread out over all the players, and because anyone that points that out gets slammed in public. I just don't care as much, and I'm a less easy target to try to portray as not understanding the game.
This is disappointing for Uncollected players. There was almost nothing in this post that is relevant for mid-game players. I imagine the future posts about champion buffs and arena changes and stuff like that might be more relevant, but if you're still grinding through Act 5, all the stuff about Act 6 is basically meaningless, all the stuff about new Variants isn't particularly useful, the Summer of Pain isn't even something to think about. As an Uncollected player, the only thing here that I can do anything with is go replay Act 2 for the rewards after it gets reset.
What were you hoping for? They aren't changing act 5.
They know what the pain points are. Can we just stop it? They have data on item usage. They don’t need a freaking conversation to tell them what has cost the most items. It’s just a delay tactic.
Right? Like we havent given enough feedback on act 6 fights for over a year now that they STILL need feedback.
Are there reward issues? Sure. There's obviously a problem with champion acquisition at or higher than UC: the game doesn't give enough of the right rewards to fuel player's roster progress into Act 6. There's obviously a problem with champion rank up rewards for Cavalier players because the devs want players to be experimental and broaden their champion use, but rank up rewards for 5* champs are still balanced around having a few high ranks and not broadly ranked up rosters. There are certain specific targeted reward issues that need specific targeted solutions.
In a nutshell, yes, that is the problem, Kabam threw up gates in Act 6, and if you don't have the right champs you are stuck spinning your wheels hoping to get the right champs to get Cav status.
Look at this month's side event, they offered exactly ZERO 5* shards in the hotel store for uncollected people.
Thus, they are holding people back for no logical reason other than Kabam wants people to spend their way out of the hole that Kabam themselves created.
That is why I am saying all their rewards need a buff to help people to overcome the problem that Kabam caused.
@Kabam Miike Can we get more timeframes for when each changes is coming. As of right now, we’ve gotten very few times, which just makes all of these changes seem like hypotheticals that aren’t really coming (soon)
They know what the pain points are. Can we just stop it? They have data on item usage. They don’t need a freaking conversation to tell them what has cost the most items. It’s just a delay tactic.
If you don't want to participate in a dialog with the developers on how to improve the game, fortunately for you it isn't mandatory to participate. But how about let everyone else who does want to have that conversation have it without being told their contribution is irrelevant, because Kabam should just know everything already.
I personally would love to sit down with the Act 6 designer and discuss how to make it better. I doubt I'm going to get that sort of access of course, but the idea that you would just know what to do and wouldn't benefit at all from that conversation if you were the developers, they should just datamine potions and do whatever, is pretty much exactly the attitude so many players accuse Kabam of having. Of just looking at the data, hearing a bunch of complaints, and then just doing whatever they want without any player perspective involvement.
This is what so many players have asked for over the years. This is what *I* have asked for over the years. And now that its here, we have to deal with the fact that there will be a segment of the player population that basically says what we have fought for and now see the light at the end of the tunnel to get was something that was worthless. That in fact, we're actually part of the problem, we're just enabling Kabam to do unproductive things.
There comes a point when you have to realize you can't help everyone, you can't save everyone, and you shouldn't even try. You have to decide you're going to try to contribute positively, or not. And if you are going to try, you aren't going to drag anyone else kicking and screaming. You're going to leave them behind.
I don't know about any we, but no, I'm not going to stop it. I'm going to go forward, and I hope the game goes forward also. And everyone else has to make their own choices. But the attitude that hey, we all know what's going on here really? Anyone who has that attitude is entitled to it, but I'm just saying for the record I want nothing to do with it, or anything remotely connected to it.
For example, there was no mention of any kind of reward boosts at all for the event quest, even though everyone knows they badly need a boost, the same with arena rewards, and basically everything in the game needs a reward boost. They are all stuck in 2017 levels.
Everyone doesn't know this. I don't know this, for example, and I know many people who also don't know this, but have better things to do with their life than accumulate anonymous disagree flags and have people say they are out of touch.
I'm already on record as saying just randomly boosting rewards causes problems, and what's more I've been right twice in a row in the past: when the devs boosted 5* shards to the point of forcing 6* champs into the game, and when they opened the floodgates on T4CC, which put us into a permanent catalyst arms race that is still ringing today, with people saying the game's gold rewards are broken because they can't use the hundred T2A they have expiring.
Saying rewards are stuck at 2017 levels is like saying the ladder you own has steps still stuck in 2017 levels, and you now need a ladder where the steps are now three feet apart instead of eighteen inches apart. Rewards should be balanced around the content and progression of the game, not around humans who need increasingly shiny things.
Are there reward issues? Sure. There's obviously a problem with champion acquisition at or higher than UC: the game doesn't give enough of the right rewards to fuel player's roster progress into Act 6. There's obviously a problem with champion rank up rewards for Cavalier players because the devs want players to be experimental and broaden their champion use, but rank up rewards for 5* champs are still balanced around having a few high ranks and not broadly ranked up rosters. There are certain specific targeted reward issues that need specific targeted solutions.
But the event quest, the arena, the calendar? The main complaint about those rewards is that they are "outdated" not that they fail to serve the progress requirements for them. Progress requirements don't change over time. Players expectations do, but we can't satisfy the people who demand more and more and more just because they got a new free calendar at the bank. Nor should Kabam even try, if it comes at the expense of a more reasonable future of the game for everyone else. I'm not looking forward to Kabam racing through the last two ranks of 6* champs and introducing 7* champs that restarts the top tier power arms race again. No player in the game is more than one rank higher than me, because rank 3 is the only rank above me that even exists. And I myself am not that much higher than any other Cavalier player, although my roster is probably a bit wider. And the game is much better that way for everyone, with a compressed progress range.
So yeah, everyone doesn't know that Kabam should just be announcing reward increases everywhere. Increasing rewards just because of what year it is causes tremendous harm. It is just hard to point to that harm because it is spread out over all the players, and because anyone that points that out gets slammed in public. I just don't care as much, and I'm a less easy target to try to portray as not understanding the game.
That's where I am -- we don't need more rewards. We need the content to be tuned to a wider range of people so the middle consolidates again
I can't use the technical terms like DNA does, but I do know this: This game didn't/doesn't have a reward problem or giveaway problem
The game has had a content tuning problem and a champion kit problem, and I do think it's being addressed
They know what the pain points are. Can we just stop it? They have data on item usage. They don’t need a freaking conversation to tell them what has cost the most items. It’s just a delay tactic.
If you don't want to participate in a dialog with the developers on how to improve the game, fortunately for you it isn't mandatory to participate. But how about let everyone else who does want to have that conversation have it without being told their contribution is irrelevant, because Kabam should just know everything already.
I personally would love to sit down with the Act 6 designer and discuss how to make it better. I doubt I'm going to get that sort of access of course, but the idea that you would just know what to do and wouldn't benefit at all from that conversation if you were the developers, they should just datamine potions and do whatever, is pretty much exactly the attitude so many players accuse Kabam of having. Of just looking at the data, hearing a bunch of complaints, and then just doing whatever they want without any player perspective involvement.
This is what so many players have asked for over the years. This is what *I* have asked for over the years. And now that its here, we have to deal with the fact that there will be a segment of the player population that basically says what we have fought for and now see the light at the end of the tunnel to get was something that was worthless. That in fact, we're actually part of the problem, we're just enabling Kabam to do unproductive things.
There comes a point when you have to realize you can't help everyone, you can't save everyone, and you shouldn't even try. You have to decide you're going to try to contribute positively, or not. And if you are going to try, you aren't going to drag anyone else kicking and screaming. You're going to leave them behind.
I don't know about any we, but no, I'm not going to stop it. I'm going to go forward, and I hope the game goes forward also. And everyone else has to make their own choices. But the attitude that hey, we all know what's going on here really? Anyone who has that attitude is entitled to it, but I'm just saying for the record I want nothing to do with it, or anything remotely connected to it.
No hes not mad at having a discussion. Hes mad at the fact we having one again when weve given them tons of feedback already
For perspective, my opinion is that this game has been unbalanced since 5-stars were introduced. It was a simpler game back in the day, and I acknowledge that, but the content was tuned for a wider group of players when all we had were duped 4-stars
I am not complaining or being critical. The game is doing what it felt it needed to do to move forward, and they are clearly acknowledging that some things need to change
But this problem didn't happen overnight. It's been festering for years, and while I would love for everything to be perfect tomorrow, the reality is it's gonna take a minute to reset this thing
I've worked in movies, and I can tell you that this is not how that works. Game Development is also a very different beast and you can't compare. We don't have timelines yet because we don't have a final list of what we want to do. Exploration of Data takes time, and then so does coming up with what changes we need to make to address those issues, and depending on the scale... we could be looking at weeks or months just to implement them.
So what I got out of this was; 1; you guys don't fully know what your doing as far as changes. 2; you guys are in the early stages, so I shouldn't expect 'weeks', but instead 'months.' Thanks Mike
Movies have their setbacks, and they also don't have to deal with people being disappointed when those goals aren't met like this community. There are also some things they don't know yet. Things don't happen overnight.
Guess you weren't around when 12.0 hit. Kabam argued, listened, tested and then added changes within two weeks. Gotta give them credit for that fast turn around. But yes, big changes can happen sooner rather then later. And yes, people do get upset when movies are postponed. I get this industry has more delays then movies, but we still get timeframes for a release.
I was here during 12.0, and the major bulk of the changes they planned, months ahead of time mind you, had gone ahead. There were some minor tweaks after the reactions, but what we're talking about here is not minor tweaks. These are significant changes that require significant time to implement.
Oh that is not true at all, after 12.0 the changes made WERE significant. 12.0 was a mess, they made huge changes after the outcry. They aren’t giving us much more than we already knew. I can’t even consider this a “glimpse” into the future. Because we already knew these aspects.
Tell us when act 6 is going to be toned down. So we can play our game effectively.
The bulk of the changes was the new Diminishing Returns/Flat Rate system. They made some adjustments to that, and the Champs, but the majority of what they planned stayed on. I remember. I was around.
You know they know already DNA. Why act like you dont
First, maybe they know where the pain points are. But maybe they are fallible. And maybe many pain points are not visible in the data. If a fight kills you a lot, that's in the data. If a fight looks like it requires so narrow a choice of champions that most players just plain avoid trying it until they pull the right champ, that *isn't* obviously in the data. How do you tell the difference between a fight that everyone uses the same champ on because its obviously the best, and a fight that everyone avoids like the plague until they pull the same champ to do it because they don't think it is possible without it? Good luck.
But more important, that's all also irrelevant. The point to focus groups is not only to discover what the players think the pain points are, but more importantly to discuss what options the players think are more and less palatable to address them.
That's what dialog does that a suggestion box doesn't. It allows Kabam to respond to feedback, and lets the players respond to the response.
I've worked in movies, and I can tell you that this is not how that works. Game Development is also a very different beast and you can't compare. We don't have timelines yet because we don't have a final list of what we want to do. Exploration of Data takes time, and then so does coming up with what changes we need to make to address those issues, and depending on the scale... we could be looking at weeks or months just to implement them.
So what I got out of this was; 1; you guys don't fully know what your doing as far as changes. 2; you guys are in the early stages, so I shouldn't expect 'weeks', but instead 'months.' Thanks Mike
Movies have their setbacks, and they also don't have to deal with people being disappointed when those goals aren't met like this community. There are also some things they don't know yet. Things don't happen overnight.
Guess you weren't around when 12.0 hit. Kabam argued, listened, tested and then added changes within two weeks. Gotta give them credit for that fast turn around. But yes, big changes can happen sooner rather then later. And yes, people do get upset when movies are postponed. I get this industry has more delays then movies, but we still get timeframes for a release.
I was here during 12.0, and the major bulk of the changes they planned, months ahead of time mind you, had gone ahead. There were some minor tweaks after the reactions, but what we're talking about here is not minor tweaks. These are significant changes that require significant time to implement.
Oh that is not true at all, after 12.0 the changes made WERE significant. 12.0 was a mess, they made huge changes after the outcry. They aren’t giving us much more than we already knew. I can’t even consider this a “glimpse” into the future. Because we already knew these aspects.
Tell us when act 6 is going to be toned down. So we can play our game effectively.
The bulk of the changes was the new Diminishing Returns/Flat Rate system. They made some adjustments to that, and the Champs, but the majority of what they planned stayed on. I remember. I was around.
In fact, I remember very clearly because that's when I was branded for not jumping on the Boycott.
He's saying they might know the problems but not the solutions. Personally, I think that's absurd. They've had months to get feedback. The could have been DMing people who participated in the giant - and apparently completely ignored because it was "too many voices" - feedback thread. They could have asked the CCP. They could have already had focus groups. They could have had beta testing for new boss fights. Fine let's move forward, but first let's all agree that nothing has changed. There is a huge disconnect between the game team and people who play the game and a one-off chat with +/-20 people won't solve that. They need people on the team with actual game experience. Hire Brian Grant full time. He's not my favorite youtuber but he's completely reasonable and would be able to solve half these issues before they ever get out of the design phase.
The point of the focus group is to continue he to play lip service and eventually make the changes they already know they should make. Whatever, I know you are smart enough to see this, it is what it is. Personally I have beaten most of the pain points I am not even arguing for myself or do I care if I receive any compensation whatsoever. I object to this blatant disregard of months of feedback and empirical data to release a statement that acts like they already don’t know. It’s flat out bs. You can be ok eating ****, I am not.
Here are the act 6 bosses that I would classify as “pain points” (Mostly the fights I HAD to use quake for): 6.1.2 (Ultron), 6.1.5 (Crossbones), 6.1.6 (Sentinel), 6.2.2 (Sinister), 6.2.5 (Mordo), 6.2.6 (The Champion), 6.3.1 (Medusa- big pain point), 6.3.4 (Iron Man), 6.3.5 (Mysterio), 6.4.3 (Darkhawk), and 6.4.5 (Hydra Adaptoid)
6.1.2 (Ultron) : annoying yes but not a "pain point" as you can do it without specific champion or synergy
6.1.5 (Crossbones) : this one was more annoying than the ultron, the bane node was horrible, even more when Crossbone didn't want to do its SP and the bane was transferred to you
6.1.6 (Sentinel) : not a "pain point" but a very long fight, especially with no cosmic. venom was nice as it cannot lose power from the node against the sentinel
6.2.2 (Sinister) : Ok this one was a real "pain point" if you didn't have the right champions with the right synergy !
6.2.5 (Mordo) : This one is a real pain in the... The different path are hard too. the 6.2.5 is one of the hardest to do for me.
6.2.6 (The Champion) : well the champion is quite hard the first time you do it. i did 5 paths in 2 runs so i can't really complain about this one. As for the no retreat node, it's the only left so i guess i will wait
6.3.1 (Medusa- big pain point) : yes maybe for those without killmonger or symbiote supreme or some decent bleeding champion. the only pb i see is the lenght of the fight that can make you do fatal errrors.
6.3.4 (Iron Man) : this one is terrible if you can't manage the power and/or reduce its healing ability. and as for Medusa, the longer the fight the more errors you can do
6.3.5 (Mysterio) : The tunnel vision node is horrible with this one
6.4.3 (Darkhawk) : one of the more frustrating fight with its raptor upgrade node.
6.4.5 (Hydra Adaptoid) : as horrible as the first time i met it in a monthly quest, but thanks to stealth spidy, it was more easy to manage
I would add some frustrating paths like the nearly all the path of the 6.2.5, the "gimme path" of the 6.4.1 where the VTD is far more difficult than the iceman boss
He's saying they might know the problems but not the solutions. Personally, I think that's absurd. They've had months to get feedback. The could have been DMing people who participated in the giant - and apparently completely ignored because it was "too many voices" - feedback thread. They could have asked the CCP. They could have already had focus groups. They could have had beta testing for new boss fights. Fine let's move forward, but first let's all agree that nothing has changed. There is a huge disconnect between the game team and people who play the game and a one-off chat with +/-20 people won't solve that. They need people on the team with actual game experience. Hire Brian Grant full time. He's not my favorite youtuber but he's completely reasonable and would be able to solve half these issues before they ever get out of the design phase.
You wouldn't happen to have Ghost on your roster, would you?
Alright then, let them just go in and make a bunch of incalculable changes overnight. That way in 3 months time we can all meet back here for another mess. Sound like fun?
He's saying they might know the problems but not the solutions. Personally, I think that's absurd. They've had months to get feedback. The could have been DMing people who participated in the giant - and apparently completely ignored because it was "too many voices" - feedback thread. They could have asked the CCP. They could have already had focus groups. They could have had beta testing for new boss fights. Fine let's move forward, but first let's all agree that nothing has changed. There is a huge disconnect between the game team and people who play the game and a one-off chat with +/-20 people won't solve that. They need people on the team with actual game experience. Hire Brian Grant full time. He's not my favorite youtuber but he's completely reasonable and would be able to solve half these issues before they ever get out of the design phase.
You wouldn't happen to have Ghost on your roster, would you?
Five star r4 but I only use her in arena. Can't get the timing right. I also have quake at r3. But I don't see how that's relevant.
Let’s just make getting, awakening and siging up ghost, aegon, doom, nick fury etc then we don’t have to worry about changes and focus groups and compensation etc
I mean, for real: Call it what it is. Act 6 was broken from Day 1.
Some people completed/explored it as is, and those folks deserve compensation for pain and suffering.
But come on, now -- the Brit pulled the band-aid off, what, two months ago?
Kabam probably had no intention of reworking Act 6 to the extent they now are before then. I understand that people want change quickly because I truly do understand being impatient, but come on, man -- they are explaining what they're gonna do with attack values and the Champion boss, you know they're gonna do something about Sinister and Mysterio.
It's gonna take a minute, folks -- I yell and scream, too, but you gotta know by now that we get one update a month and this is gonna take a minute.
They're doing Cavalier difficulty and trying to get a Variant out the door, Boss Rushes...give them a minute, people
Comments
What was the thought process behind dialing back the variant content in the first place? Like what makes you look at the overwhelmingly positive feedback and think let’s do less of these.
If there is no data to give back proportional amount to everyone, then having some compensation metrics is the next fair thing to do. And of course, when we use the average, some will get more and some will get less.
For example, there was no mention of any kind of reward boosts at all for the event quest, even though everyone knows they badly need a boost, the same with arena rewards, and basically everything in the game needs a reward boost. They are all stuck in 2017 levels.
The Calendar is way outdated as well, but no comments on that either?
All Kabam has to do is say for starters, we are increasing 4* & 5* & 6* shards, T1A, T2A, and whatever else at a minimum (based on tiers). We might make further adjustments down the road as we near release date, but we can guarantee at a minimum the rewards we have posted are part of the progress you will see throughout the Contest.
Instead, we get silence, so, it is just kicking the can down the road.
Thank you for listening your summoners concerning act 6, cavalier difficulty etc...
Thank you for all the creativity you have and the way you use it to better all the already existing content.
There are probably a lot more to do, like arena, champions rework....but at least you are working on it and now we know it.
I'm already on record as saying just randomly boosting rewards causes problems, and what's more I've been right twice in a row in the past: when the devs boosted 5* shards to the point of forcing 6* champs into the game, and when they opened the floodgates on T4CC, which put us into a permanent catalyst arms race that is still ringing today, with people saying the game's gold rewards are broken because they can't use the hundred T2A they have expiring.
Saying rewards are stuck at 2017 levels is like saying the ladder you own has steps still stuck in 2017 levels, and you now need a ladder where the steps are now three feet apart instead of eighteen inches apart. Rewards should be balanced around the content and progression of the game, not around humans who need increasingly shiny things.
Are there reward issues? Sure. There's obviously a problem with champion acquisition at or higher than UC: the game doesn't give enough of the right rewards to fuel player's roster progress into Act 6. There's obviously a problem with champion rank up rewards for Cavalier players because the devs want players to be experimental and broaden their champion use, but rank up rewards for 5* champs are still balanced around having a few high ranks and not broadly ranked up rosters. There are certain specific targeted reward issues that need specific targeted solutions.
But the event quest, the arena, the calendar? The main complaint about those rewards is that they are "outdated" not that they fail to serve the progress requirements for them. Progress requirements don't change over time. Players expectations do, but we can't satisfy the people who demand more and more and more just because they got a new free calendar at the bank. Nor should Kabam even try, if it comes at the expense of a more reasonable future of the game for everyone else. I'm not looking forward to Kabam racing through the last two ranks of 6* champs and introducing 7* champs that restarts the top tier power arms race again. No player in the game is more than one rank higher than me, because rank 3 is the only rank above me that even exists. And I myself am not that much higher than any other Cavalier player, although my roster is probably a bit wider. And the game is much better that way for everyone, with a compressed progress range.
So yeah, everyone doesn't know that Kabam should just be announcing reward increases everywhere. Increasing rewards just because of what year it is causes tremendous harm. It is just hard to point to that harm because it is spread out over all the players, and because anyone that points that out gets slammed in public. I just don't care as much, and I'm a less easy target to try to portray as not understanding the game.
Look at this month's side event, they offered exactly ZERO 5* shards in the hotel store for uncollected people.
Thus, they are holding people back for no logical reason other than Kabam wants people to spend their way out of the hole that Kabam themselves created.
That is why I am saying all their rewards need a buff to help people to overcome the problem that Kabam caused.
I personally would love to sit down with the Act 6 designer and discuss how to make it better. I doubt I'm going to get that sort of access of course, but the idea that you would just know what to do and wouldn't benefit at all from that conversation if you were the developers, they should just datamine potions and do whatever, is pretty much exactly the attitude so many players accuse Kabam of having. Of just looking at the data, hearing a bunch of complaints, and then just doing whatever they want without any player perspective involvement.
This is what so many players have asked for over the years. This is what *I* have asked for over the years. And now that its here, we have to deal with the fact that there will be a segment of the player population that basically says what we have fought for and now see the light at the end of the tunnel to get was something that was worthless. That in fact, we're actually part of the problem, we're just enabling Kabam to do unproductive things.
There comes a point when you have to realize you can't help everyone, you can't save everyone, and you shouldn't even try. You have to decide you're going to try to contribute positively, or not. And if you are going to try, you aren't going to drag anyone else kicking and screaming. You're going to leave them behind.
I don't know about any we, but no, I'm not going to stop it. I'm going to go forward, and I hope the game goes forward also. And everyone else has to make their own choices. But the attitude that hey, we all know what's going on here really? Anyone who has that attitude is entitled to it, but I'm just saying for the record I want nothing to do with it, or anything remotely connected to it.
I can't use the technical terms like DNA does, but I do know this: This game didn't/doesn't have a reward problem or giveaway problem
The game has had a content tuning problem and a champion kit problem, and I do think it's being addressed
I am not complaining or being critical. The game is doing what it felt it needed to do to move forward, and they are clearly acknowledging that some things need to change
But this problem didn't happen overnight. It's been festering for years, and while I would love for everything to be perfect tomorrow, the reality is it's gonna take a minute to reset this thing
But more important, that's all also irrelevant. The point to focus groups is not only to discover what the players think the pain points are, but more importantly to discuss what options the players think are more and less palatable to address them.
That's what dialog does that a suggestion box doesn't. It allows Kabam to respond to feedback, and lets the players respond to the response.
6.1.5 (Crossbones) : this one was more annoying than the ultron, the bane node was horrible, even more when Crossbone didn't want to do its SP and the bane was transferred to you
6.1.6 (Sentinel) : not a "pain point" but a very long fight, especially with no cosmic. venom was nice as it cannot lose power from the node against the sentinel
6.2.2 (Sinister) : Ok this one was a real "pain point" if you didn't have the right champions with the right synergy !
6.2.5 (Mordo) : This one is a real pain in the... The different path are hard too. the 6.2.5 is one of the hardest to do for me.
6.2.6 (The Champion) : well the champion is quite hard the first time you do it. i did 5 paths in 2 runs so i can't really complain about this one. As for the no retreat node, it's the only left so i guess i will wait
6.3.1 (Medusa- big pain point) : yes maybe for those without killmonger or symbiote supreme or some decent bleeding champion. the only pb i see is the lenght of the fight that can make you do fatal errrors.
6.3.4 (Iron Man) : this one is terrible if you can't manage the power and/or reduce its healing ability. and as for Medusa, the longer the fight the more errors you can do
6.3.5 (Mysterio) : The tunnel vision node is horrible with this one
6.4.3 (Darkhawk) : one of the more frustrating fight with its raptor upgrade node.
6.4.5 (Hydra Adaptoid) : as horrible as the first time i met it in a monthly quest, but thanks to stealth spidy, it was more easy to manage
I would add some frustrating paths like the nearly all the path of the 6.2.5, the "gimme path" of the 6.4.1 where the VTD is far more difficult than the iceman boss
Some people completed/explored it as is, and those folks deserve compensation for pain and suffering.
But come on, now -- the Brit pulled the band-aid off, what, two months ago?
Kabam probably had no intention of reworking Act 6 to the extent they now are before then. I understand that people want change quickly because I truly do understand being impatient, but come on, man -- they are explaining what they're gonna do with attack values and the Champion boss, you know they're gonna do something about Sinister and Mysterio.
It's gonna take a minute, folks -- I yell and scream, too, but you gotta know by now that we get one update a month and this is gonna take a minute.
They're doing Cavalier difficulty and trying to get a Variant out the door, Boss Rushes...give them a minute, people