**HOTFIX AND GOODIES**
Our latest Hotfix is now live for both iOS and Android! Please manually update your game. Additionally, because of the bugs’ impact on energy refill consumption, we have provided summoners with Energy Refills and a few other items to assist in the Contest! Sign in and check your messages now to claim yours!

Devil of Hell's Kitchen Overhaul: Thoughts?

1568101114

Comments

  • ChobblyChobbly Posts: 417 ★★★
    Rookiie said:

    Chobbly said:

    Rookiie said:

    Call me a lunatic but I think Kabam are listening.
    Otherwise, they would have shut us down or dumped this in Suggestions and Requests to die.
    Call me a lunatic, but I think Kabam haven’t responded because they don’t want us to raise our expectations, because they’re trying.
    Trying to get this across to the team, trying to get the data, trying to fetch a slot for him in the cadence.
    I may be crazy, but I believe in you Kabam.
    And I believe so hard that this man will get the buff he deserves.

    I really hope you're right, @Rookiie . It would be seen as a really positive thing to do not just for the champ but for the many Summoners that have him in their rosters, for what would be only a small amount of effort.

    And for the buff program. Daredevil was the Flagship of Failure, and if they commit to changing that then it will send a strong message to the player base that Kabam are tuning in.
    Absolutely agree. It could be a quick win and put some faith back into the buff programme. There are benefits not just for the kit but in a more general sense to me as well.

    Sounds like a win-win - let's hope it happens :)
  • RookiieRookiie Posts: 3,886 ★★★★★
    edited December 2021
    Rookiie said:

    Just a small reminder on where things officially stand with DDHK:



    https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/1630806#Comment_1630806

    @Kabam Miike we’re holding out for something.

    The playerbase have tested him on release. There were concerns about his Regen rate even before the update dropped (see comments in the spotlight).
    @Chobbly and @FluffyPigMonster have continued to test him throughout summer and are providing similar feedback.
    A year later, this has sparked up again, and to nobody’s surprise: our feedback hasn’t changed.

    His Regen hampers him greatly in debuff heavy matchups, against nodes which take your health away only to return it (he gets less), and against most Science champs including iBom, Abom (poison) and Void (rage).
    His damage isn’t worth the mental load you are putting us through, and now it looks like everybody has lost with this champion.
    Please: fix the regen and pause the buffs / increase their duration and potency. Please.
    It won’t break the contest. Other reworked champions have gotten less treatment and are performing better. Even older champions are performing better.
    Nobody is asking for more utility. We all like the base kit. Just let things flow together with the right tune up.
  • FluffyPigMonsterFluffyPigMonster Posts: 2,069 ★★★★★
    Rookiie said:

    Rookiie said:

    Just a small reminder on where things officially stand with DDHK:



    https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/1630806#Comment_1630806

    @Kabam Miike we’re holding out for something.

    The playerbase have tested him on release. There were concerns about his Regen rate even before the update drop (see comments in the spotlight).
    @Chobbly and @FluffyPigMonster have continued to test him throughout summer and are providing similar feedback.
    Now, this has sparked up again, and to nobody’s surprise: our feedback hasn’t changed.

    His Regen hampers him greatly in debuff heavy matchups, against nodes which take your health away only to return it (he gets less), and against most Science champs including iBom, Abom (poison) and Void (rage).
    His damage isn’t worth the mental load you are putting us through, and now it looks like everybody has lost with this champion.
    Please: fix the regen and pause the buffs / increase their duration and potency. Please.
    It won’t break the contest. Other reworked champions have gotten better treatment and are performing better. Even older champions are performing better.
    Nobody is asking for more utility. We all like the base kit. Just let things flow together with the right tune up.
    Excellent reminder. It’s been what - a year now?

    Hopefully @Kabam Miike will stay true and give us some good news
  • ChobblyChobbly Posts: 417 ★★★

    So I was playing in the EQ and using Corvus vs Iceman on path G (Kraven map).

    I’m running liquid courage and double edge.

    Corvus had a poison, bleed, Coldsnap and frostbite debuffs and was healing +237 health NET per tick.

    I finished the fight with 100% yellow bar health.

    There’s no way if DDHK had fully restored regen that he would be as OP as Corvus is now.

    Those are some really interesting numbers - I've got to say I didn't realise that Corvus could recover so much health. It does make the situation with DDHK's Regen Rate so much more confusing.

    Hopefully we can get a response from @Kabam Miike , @Kabam Boo or one of the other mods about looking into this issue.
  • FluffyPigMonsterFluffyPigMonster Posts: 2,069 ★★★★★
    edited December 2021
    Here’s a possible solution:

    Here’s his regen:



    Restore the regen to 100%

    Remove immunity to modification or introduce a 40% resistance to regeneration rate modification



    Change “non-damaging” to “all debuffs”

    You can change the 5% reduction to something more balanced. Even 20% would make him effective still.

    These two changes solves all problems. Makes him the brawler we all want and deserve
  • RookiieRookiie Posts: 3,886 ★★★★★

    Here’s a possible solution:

    Here’s his regen:



    Restore the regen to 100%

    Remove immunity to modification or introduce a 40% resistance to regeneration rate modification



    Change “non-damaging” to “all debuffs”

    You can change the 5% reduction to something more balanced. Even 20% would make him effective still.

    These two changes solves all problems. Makes him the brawler we all want and deserve

    Oh dear, not 20% no. He would end up dealing less damage if you scale upwards (beyond 2 debuffs even). This would be a significant nerf.
    Changing it to all debuffs (5% reduction NOT 20%) solves the need of increasing the duration, and it will make him a bursty champion.
    Changing the duration of buffs solves the need to increase the damage. This will smoothen out his mechanics and frankly, fits the brawler persona he has.
    But I’m all up for an increase in damage potency.
  • FluffyPigMonsterFluffyPigMonster Posts: 2,069 ★★★★★
    edited December 2021
    Rookiie said:

    Here’s a possible solution:

    Here’s his regen:



    Restore the regen to 100%

    Remove immunity to modification or introduce a 40% resistance to regeneration rate modification



    Change “non-damaging” to “all debuffs”

    You can change the 5% reduction to something more balanced. Even 20% would make him effective still.

    These two changes solves all problems. Makes him the brawler we all want and deserve

    Oh dear, not 20% no. He would end up dealing less damage if you scale upwards (beyond 2 debuffs even). This would be a significant nerf.
    Changing it to all debuffs (5% reduction NOT 20%) solves the need of increasing the duration, and it will make him a bursty champion.
    Changing the duration of buffs solves the need to increase the damage. This will smoothen out his mechanics and frankly, fits the brawler persona he has.
    But I’m all up for an increase in damage potency.
    You think so? I’m trying to negotiate here with a silent partner (hi @Kabam Miike !)

    5% it is!
  • ChobblyChobbly Posts: 417 ★★★
    There's lots which can be done. Even just increasing the personal Buff durations by a number of seconds each to better support the rotations (Fury) and critical damage (Cruelty) would be appreciated. Or pausing buffs on basic hits like @Rookiie suggested. There's lots of possibilities.

    It would be good to get engagement on this issue with the Mods.
  • RookiieRookiie Posts: 3,886 ★★★★★

    Rookiie said:

    Here’s a possible solution:

    Here’s his regen:



    Restore the regen to 100%

    Remove immunity to modification or introduce a 40% resistance to regeneration rate modification



    Change “non-damaging” to “all debuffs”

    You can change the 5% reduction to something more balanced. Even 20% would make him effective still.

    These two changes solves all problems. Makes him the brawler we all want and deserve

    Oh dear, not 20% no. He would end up dealing less damage if you scale upwards (beyond 2 debuffs even). This would be a significant nerf.
    Changing it to all debuffs (5% reduction NOT 20%) solves the need of increasing the duration, and it will make him a bursty champion.
    Changing the duration of buffs solves the need to increase the damage. This will smoothen out his mechanics and frankly, fits the brawler persona he has.
    But I’m all up for an increase in damage potency.
    You think so? I’m trying to negotiate here with a silent partner (hi @Kabam Miike !)

    5% it is!

    Yeah for sure. Say he hits 800 per debuff (currently 777 but let’s round up for simplicity’s sake).

    And right now, I’ve seen DDHK apply up to 4 non-damaging debuffs on himself with KP synergy.

    With a 5% reduction per non-damaging debuff, it’s:
    800+760+722+686 = +2986 Attack rating

    This is good.

    A 20% reduction per ALL debuffs means you will inflict a maximum of 4 MORE debuffs (1x Weakness debuff if you have the Resonate mastery on and 3x Bleed debuffs) outside of the ones Mister Fantastic can give you. Let’s stick to these 4 for now, so a total of 8 debuffs will give you:
    800+640+512+410+328+263+211+169 = +3333 Attack rating

    A 12% increase in Attack PROVIDED you manage to stack 4 Rage on you with KP, hit 3 Bleeds and have a Weakness debuff on the opponent. That is a huge nerf, because realistically the window for that is going to be very small. Like 1-2 seconds reproducible every 20 rotations. For a +340 increase in Attack.

    No to 20% 🙅🏻‍♂️
  • FluffyPigMonsterFluffyPigMonster Posts: 2,069 ★★★★★
    Rookiie said:

    Rookiie said:

    Here’s a possible solution:

    Here’s his regen:



    Restore the regen to 100%

    Remove immunity to modification or introduce a 40% resistance to regeneration rate modification



    Change “non-damaging” to “all debuffs”

    You can change the 5% reduction to something more balanced. Even 20% would make him effective still.

    These two changes solves all problems. Makes him the brawler we all want and deserve

    Oh dear, not 20% no. He would end up dealing less damage if you scale upwards (beyond 2 debuffs even). This would be a significant nerf.
    Changing it to all debuffs (5% reduction NOT 20%) solves the need of increasing the duration, and it will make him a bursty champion.
    Changing the duration of buffs solves the need to increase the damage. This will smoothen out his mechanics and frankly, fits the brawler persona he has.
    But I’m all up for an increase in damage potency.
    You think so? I’m trying to negotiate here with a silent partner (hi @Kabam Miike !)

    5% it is!

    Yeah for sure. Say he hits 800 per debuff (currently 777 but let’s round up for simplicity’s sake).

    And right now, I’ve seen DDHK apply up to 4 non-damaging debuffs on himself with KP synergy.

    With a 5% reduction per non-damaging debuff, it’s:
    800+760+722+686 = +2986 Attack rating

    This is good.

    A 20% reduction per ALL debuffs means you will inflict a maximum of 4 MORE debuffs (1x Weakness debuff if you have the Resonate mastery on and 3x Bleed debuffs) outside of the ones Mister Fantastic can give you. Let’s stick to these 4 for now, so a total of 8 debuffs will give you:
    800+640+512+410+328+263+211+169 = +3333 Attack rating

    A 12% increase in Attack PROVIDED you manage to stack 4 Rage on you with KP, hit 3 Bleeds and have a Weakness debuff on the opponent. That is a huge nerf, because realistically the window for that is going to be very small. Like 1-2 seconds reproducible every 20 rotations. For a +340 increase in Attack.

    No to 20% 🙅🏻‍♂️
    Great explanation. As long as the damaging debuffs are included - but just running liquid courage and double edge will give him a huge boost then. That would make him (along with restoring the regen) a super suicide-friendly champ.
  • RookiieRookiie Posts: 3,886 ★★★★★

    Rookiie said:

    Rookiie said:

    Here’s a possible solution:

    Here’s his regen:



    Restore the regen to 100%

    Remove immunity to modification or introduce a 40% resistance to regeneration rate modification



    Change “non-damaging” to “all debuffs”

    You can change the 5% reduction to something more balanced. Even 20% would make him effective still.

    These two changes solves all problems. Makes him the brawler we all want and deserve

    Oh dear, not 20% no. He would end up dealing less damage if you scale upwards (beyond 2 debuffs even). This would be a significant nerf.
    Changing it to all debuffs (5% reduction NOT 20%) solves the need of increasing the duration, and it will make him a bursty champion.
    Changing the duration of buffs solves the need to increase the damage. This will smoothen out his mechanics and frankly, fits the brawler persona he has.
    But I’m all up for an increase in damage potency.
    You think so? I’m trying to negotiate here with a silent partner (hi @Kabam Miike !)

    5% it is!

    Yeah for sure. Say he hits 800 per debuff (currently 777 but let’s round up for simplicity’s sake).

    And right now, I’ve seen DDHK apply up to 4 non-damaging debuffs on himself with KP synergy.

    With a 5% reduction per non-damaging debuff, it’s:
    800+760+722+686 = +2986 Attack rating

    This is good.

    A 20% reduction per ALL debuffs means you will inflict a maximum of 4 MORE debuffs (1x Weakness debuff if you have the Resonate mastery on and 3x Bleed debuffs) outside of the ones Mister Fantastic can give you. Let’s stick to these 4 for now, so a total of 8 debuffs will give you:
    800+640+512+410+328+263+211+169 = +3333 Attack rating

    A 12% increase in Attack PROVIDED you manage to stack 4 Rage on you with KP, hit 3 Bleeds and have a Weakness debuff on the opponent. That is a huge nerf, because realistically the window for that is going to be very small. Like 1-2 seconds reproducible every 20 rotations. For a +340 increase in Attack.

    No to 20% 🙅🏻‍♂️
    Great explanation. As long as the damaging debuffs are included - but just running liquid courage and double edge will give him a huge boost then. That would make him (along with restoring the regen) a super suicide-friendly champ.

    If they change it from +777 Attack per non-damaging debuff to all debuffs as you suggested (again, let’s round up to 800), KEEPING a 5% reduction, it will look like the following:

    800+760+722+686+652+620+589+560 = +5367 Attack rating

    Which I will happily take, as half these numbers are not readily available in a fight, and you will realistically have on average 3 debuffs on yourself or the opponent over the entire fight, with big damage spikes when they bleed. I’ll take it.
  • ChobblyChobbly Posts: 417 ★★★
    The great thing with this is that it's working within the confines of the existing kit. I think this is important because it could help Kabam control the scope of any possible changes with what we suggest. It's working with the flow of the existing kit, rather than against it.
  • RookiieRookiie Posts: 3,886 ★★★★★
    Chobbly said:

    The great thing with this is that it's working within the confines of the existing kit. I think this is important because it could help Kabam control the scope of any possible changes with what we suggest. It's working with the flow of the existing kit, rather than against it.

    Exactly. Well said Chobbly.
    I can’t stress this enough.
    Nobody is asking for new things to be added.
    Just that the existing things flow smoothly and efficiently.
  • RookiieRookiie Posts: 3,886 ★★★★★
    From content creators:

    Seatin: “Underwhelming”, “Low base damage”

    KT1: Look at the comments.
    Kabam, we can barely keep more than two buffs up at a time. Whenever I get something, something else is about to expire.
    Why? Why would you release him and leave him like this?
    Tune up the duration and potency of buffs.
    And maybe even the base damage.
    I’m not sure why it’s set to so low.
  • ChobblyChobbly Posts: 417 ★★★
    Thanks for posting those @Rookiie - I remember watching the Seatin one. I don't know if the CCP group saw him before the release - can't remember what was said.

    What is interesting is how's close most of the CCP's response was to our general findings. He just needs tweaks, then he'll be great.
  • FluffyPigMonsterFluffyPigMonster Posts: 2,069 ★★★★★
    Chobbly said:

    The great thing with this is that it's working within the confines of the existing kit. I think this is important because it could help Kabam control the scope of any possible changes with what we suggest. It's working with the flow of the existing kit, rather than against it.

    Well said. This is also a good way for us to make him realistically better. We’re not trying to reinvent him
  • RookiieRookiie Posts: 3,886 ★★★★★
    edited December 2021
    It feels like somebody wanted to create a buff with all these complicated ways to get different things, but lost track of what they were doing, got fed up, decided they didn’t want to deal with it anymore and just dumped the buff out there.
    That, or somebody did it correctly, but some genius who reviewed their work decided to nerf all the numbers.
    I don’t know what happened.
    All I know is that what they released is not good.
    And it’s been one year since @Kabam Miike said they were going to review DDHK’s data.
    And there has been a negligible amount of content and rank-ups since his release.
    And no data so far, I don’t think DDHK is being used.
    This was a total failure of an overhaul, even more so than Guillotine, but because we’ve been silent for so long, we’ve become okay with accepting Kabam’s silence on this failure.
    Except, we shouldn’t be okay with it.
    And it needs to be fixed.
  • FluffyPigMonsterFluffyPigMonster Posts: 2,069 ★★★★★
    Rookiie said:

    It feels like somebody wanted to create a buff with all these complicated ways to get different things, but lost track of what they were doing, got fed up, decided they didn’t want to deal with it anymore and just dumped the buff out there.
    That, or somebody did it correctly, but some genius who reviewed their work decided to nerf all the numbers.
    I don’t know what happened.
    All I know is that what they released is not good.
    And it’s been one year since @Kabam Miike said they were going to review DDHK’s data.
    And there has been a negligible amount of content and rank-ups since his release.
    And no data so far, I don’t think DDHK is being used.
    This was a total failure of an overhaul, even more so than Guillotine, but because we’ve been silent for so long, we’ve become okay with accepting Kabam’s silence on this failure.
    Except, we shouldn’t be okay with it.
    And it needs to be fixed.

    Well, we’ve effectively beta tested this guy for a year now. Many good ideas didn’t work. Like the regen. I understand they don’t want an overpowered champ - but he is not overpowered at all.

    Restoring the regen helps the community and helps the game. We all want the same thing. A better long lasting game.

    This is one of those things where we can all @Kabam Miike reach a consensus and get something done. This is something trivial to get off Kabam’s plate and then move on to bigger issues.
  • RookiieRookiie Posts: 3,886 ★★★★★
    They can’t get away with everything. They’re just going to alienate everybody with this deafening silence. DDHK’s design doesn’t serve any demographic of the player base. They, from an design standpoint, shouldn’t allow something like this to float about in the game. It’s not right, and they would do well to respond to us and talk to us about where they feel he stands and how our ideas fit in. IP or not, product or not, we are using it and this is basic corporate ethics.
    Enough of this silence. #FixDaredevil
  • ChobblyChobbly Posts: 417 ★★★
    Rookiie said:

    They can’t get away with everything. They’re just going to alienate everybody with this deafening silence. DDHK’s design doesn’t serve any demographic of the player base. They, from an design standpoint, shouldn’t allow something like this to float about in the game. It’s not right, and they would do well to respond to us and talk to us about where they feel he stands and how our ideas fit in. IP or not, product or not, we are using it and this is basic corporate ethics.
    Enough of this silence. #FixDaredevil

    I don't think it's getting away with this per se; I can appreciate from an outsider's perspective the challenges facing Kabam - I'm a software developer myself so I know the myriad of things that happen behind the scenes which the customer never sees.

    But at the same time, positive customer engagement never hurts. And when it's with a product element that clearly isn't working to the customer's satisfaction then an open conversation should be the first option - as it's the best option.

    The thing is - most of the issues that we have with DDHK could actually be fixed by 'soft' changes around the numbers in a kit. Regen Rate and buff durations would likely require the changing of minimal program code - if any.

    So, let's work on this, Kabam. Understanding is a three edge sword with three sides - your side, my side and reality or truth in-between. DDHK is almost there, so let's work together as community members and developers.
  • RookiieRookiie Posts: 3,886 ★★★★★
    edited December 2021
    Chobbly said:

    Rookiie said:

    They can’t get away with everything. They’re just going to alienate everybody with this deafening silence. DDHK’s design doesn’t serve any demographic of the player base. They, from an design standpoint, shouldn’t allow something like this to float about in the game. It’s not right, and they would do well to respond to us and talk to us about where they feel he stands and how our ideas fit in. IP or not, product or not, we are using it and this is basic corporate ethics.
    Enough of this silence. #FixDaredevil

    I don't think it's getting away with this per se; I can appreciate from an outsider's perspective the challenges facing Kabam - I'm a software developer myself so I know the myriad of things that happen behind the scenes which the customer never sees.

    But at the same time, positive customer engagement never hurts. And when it's with a product element that clearly isn't working to the customer's satisfaction then an open conversation should be the first option - as it's the best option.

    The thing is - most of the issues that we have with DDHK could actually be fixed by 'soft' changes around the numbers in a kit. Regen Rate and buff durations would likely require the changing of minimal program code - if any.

    So, let's work on this, Kabam. Understanding is a three edge sword with three sides - your side, my side and reality or truth in-between. DDHK is almost there, so let's work together as community members and developers.

    I appreciate the challenges they’re facing too. Not too long ago I had a post defending Kabam and toxic sentiments towards them. As someone who also works in software implementation, I know how tough and challenging things can be. Too many requirements, tested untested, backlogs, long processes, approvals, resource management, the works. What bothers me isn’t the fact that they’re not doing anything about it. It’s that we can’t get any acknowledgment or interaction on something that the majority community has a similar opinion about.

    If you, and I, and FPM decide to stop fighting for DDHK then he’s just going to get buried under the water and DDHK will be forgotten for good. I don’t think this reactionary and passive approach is right, especially because Kabam have acknowledged that they will continue to monitor his data. I, personally, don’t like committing to something and not following through on it. And I get that it’s very difficult for Miike to say anything, he has to be extra careful in case the community focus all their attention on this space; and they can’t risk failing again or setting a precedent that if we ask for something we will always get it. But that’s not the case here, because:

    1) We are not being unrealistic, we don’t ask for buffs every day and have set an example with this thread.
    2) It won’t involve much work from their end, and changes made to DDHK will only be perceived as positive from Kabam and will give a well liked champion an influx of users.
    3) They’ve committed to monitoring him and assessing him accordingly, we need to see the results of that assessment as it’s been a year.

    If we can work together on this, Kabam, it will be greatly appreciated.
  • FluffyPigMonsterFluffyPigMonster Posts: 2,069 ★★★★★
    Rookiie said:

    Chobbly said:

    Rookiie said:

    They can’t get away with everything. They’re just going to alienate everybody with this deafening silence. DDHK’s design doesn’t serve any demographic of the player base. They, from an design standpoint, shouldn’t allow something like this to float about in the game. It’s not right, and they would do well to respond to us and talk to us about where they feel he stands and how our ideas fit in. IP or not, product or not, we are using it and this is basic corporate ethics.
    Enough of this silence. #FixDaredevil

    I don't think it's getting away with this per se; I can appreciate from an outsider's perspective the challenges facing Kabam - I'm a software developer myself so I know the myriad of things that happen behind the scenes which the customer never sees.

    But at the same time, positive customer engagement never hurts. And when it's with a product element that clearly isn't working to the customer's satisfaction then an open conversation should be the first option - as it's the best option.

    The thing is - most of the issues that we have with DDHK could actually be fixed by 'soft' changes around the numbers in a kit. Regen Rate and buff durations would likely require the changing of minimal program code - if any.

    So, let's work on this, Kabam. Understanding is a three edge sword with three sides - your side, my side and reality or truth in-between. DDHK is almost there, so let's work together as community members and developers.

    I appreciate the challenges they’re facing too. Not too long ago I had a post defending Kabam and toxic sentiments towards them. As someone who also works in software implementation, I know how tough and challenging things can be. Too many requirements, tested untested, backlogs, long processes, approvals, resource management, the works. What bothers me isn’t the fact that they’re not doing anything about it. It’s that we can’t get any acknowledgment or interaction on something that the majority community has a similar opinion about.

    If you, and I, and FPM decide to stop fighting for DDHK then he’s just going to get buried under the water and DDHK will be forgotten for good. I don’t think this reactionary and passive approach is right, especially because Kabam have acknowledged that they will continue to monitor his data. I, personally, don’t like committing to something and not following through on it. And I get that it’s very difficult for Miike to say anything, he has to be extra careful in case the community focus all their attention on this space; and they can’t risk failing again or setting a precedent that if we ask for something we will always get it. But that’s not the case here, because:

    1) We are not being unrealistic, we don’t ask for buffs every day and have set an example with this thread.
    2) It won’t involve much work from their end, and changes made to DDHK will only be perceived as positive from Kabam and will give a well liked champion an influx of users.
    3) They’ve committed to monitoring him and assessing him accordingly, we need to see the results of that assessment as it’s been a year.

    If we can work together on this, Kabam, it will be greatly appreciated.
    Completely agree. I’d like other community members to give their input and ideas on improving the champ as well. If we present as many solutions possible then the possibility of relief granted to us increases.

    Come now, MCOC friends. Join in the endeavor.
  • FluffyPigMonsterFluffyPigMonster Posts: 2,069 ★★★★★
    I just used iBom.

    If Kabam is worried about stacking the debuffs, at some point the regen rate changes from despair, in AW and arena. Other factors change the regen rate like Torch’s incinerates

    I’m the case of iBom, he starts the fight with 3 poisons and can heal approximately 67 health per tick due to his poison resistance.



    Here you have the regen rate set at 100% (normal) and tried to minimize the recovery for additional poison debuffs placed upon him (so he doesn’t heal too much too quickly).

    Right here is an example of how you can manipulate 1 debuff to not overpower the regeneration but allow normal willpower to run its course for everything else.

    Please consider this exact wording for DDHK but with his rage debuffs. This will 100% fix the regen issue and you do it now with iBom.

    @Kabam Miike
  • RookiieRookiie Posts: 3,886 ★★★★★

    I would love to see a DDHK tune up. He’s just some small adjustments away from being an amazing champion, that always active miss counter is a piece of utility that I would rank him for alone

    However, as someone who runs suicides full time, he’s utterly unusable. And while it does make sense for a devout Catholic character to not work well with suicide masteries, it does severely hamper him from a gameplay standpoint.

    Considering we have some ridiculous champions like Ibomb, Diablo and Kingpin, I don’t think setting his regen rate at 100% would be game breaking. If the healing would be too much, I think setting an individual regen rate for the rage debuff is the second best option

    His kit isn’t strong enough to justify being hampered by that regen rate so much. Very few champions have such a significant weakness in their kits. Not even the strongest champs.

    I do also agree with Rookiie. His damage loop, and damage windows are too slim and somewhat complicated. In other words, the juice isn’t worth the squeeze. Making his playstyle less stressful through increasing durations would go a long way, and upping the values a bit would really bring him into his own

    DDHK is not a bad champion right now. I want to make that clear. In fact, I think he’s quite underrated. But like quite a few of the more recent buffs, it feels like it’s falling short of allowing champ to reach their potential. It’s a frustrating trend to see buffs come through as doing the bare minimum to make the champion somewhat usable, rather than really making champions unique and doing them justice. I understand it’s a small team, and John already has a lot of other roles, but I think I would prefer quite a few less buffs if it meant each champion buff was guaranteed to do the character justice, and make them a useable and useful champ at every level of the game

    Great write up.

    One of the things with DDHK is that he’s a very high skill based champ. That’s one reason I believe the regen rate at 100% is reasonable. As shown above - Corvus can be considered borderline broken when he has Glaive charges up. He heals from double edge and/bleed and shock. And Coldsnap (forgot about that one). 0 damage from those and all willpower healing.
    I don’t think DDHK is as much a high skill champ as he is a high management champ. He has so many aspects to his kit that the player needs to pay attention to in order for his to perform at maximum potential. And even when they do, the payoff is not that large

    Take another high management skill champ: Crossbones. Crossbones takes a bit more skill to pull off than DDHK, but he also has a lot of management in his kit. So why is he considered a very, very good champion? It’s worth it. With that management comes immense damage, over 100% defensive ability accuracy, no crits, and a 90% chance to purify any debuff

    The juice is very much worth the squeeze.

    It’s not with DDHK. I firmly believe he has an incredibly good base kit. The utility is there, the mechanics are there. They just don’t flow together very well.

    As much as I would like to see the regen rate tweaked in an upcoming patch, I don’t think we’re going to see any further adjustments to him unless he gets a dedicated tune up spot. Which as far as I’m concerned would actually be for the better, I would rather they spend some time properly pulling him together than just tweaking the regen rate and feeling justified to call it a day.

    I do believe our concerns are being relayed. Miike and the team have 100% seen the flare up in activity on this thread, and while they do get a lot of flak, I genuinely believe they’re good at relaying our concerns. I don’t think this is in their hands at this point

    To be bluntly honest, I don’t think we’ll see another DDHK buff. Look at the Guillotine fiasco. She is far worse than DDHK, was voted by the community, and had significantly more outcry. She’s barely getting touched.

    It really does come back to the ‘bare minimum’ thing I mentioned. So many buffs, especially recently, have felt like roundabout ways to slap some extra numbers on a kit and call it a day. Because ultimately damage is what matters in the early game, and disappointingly, that’s who these buffs are aimed at. Despite the fact that a champ that is good at high levels of play is also good at lower levels, while a champ targeted at newest players is rarely good at the top end. Just refer to Sersi for a clear example of that
    I think Guilly is a different case. There’s nothing wrong with her other than the perceived effectiveness of her buff.

    DDHK is well….broken with the regen.

    How quickly can it be fixed? When we discussed iHulk’s issue with keeping the rage up, they made the change immediately (no patch) to have his rage paused during opponent specials. That changed him from not useful to what he is. Is he the answer to everything? No. But he’s usable and people like him.

    That’s the impact we can have here. And as @Chobbly has stated many times - it can be done because it has been done before.
    Bear in mind that DDHK already received a buff post-release with the addition of his miss counter. I think if they were going to make small tweaks to his kit, the regen rate tweak would have happened then when they just have been deep diving his data.

    (adding random text to bypass the filter)

    Guess what I found? @Rockypantherx
    DDHK never received a buff post-release with the addition of his Miss counter.
    It was always there. Check out this PRE-BUFF showcase by @Karatemike415

    Kabam made it SEEM like he got a buff, when all they did was flat out write it in his ability set.
  • ZavmanZavman Posts: 9
    There’s no reason to update Devil of Hells Kitchen, he’s already been rehauled from Daredevil Netflix. Won’t be for a long while before they consider doing anything to him again.
  • GrandOldKaiGrandOldKai Posts: 545 ★★★
    Zavman said:

    There’s no reason to update Devil of Hells Kitchen, he’s already been rehauled from Daredevil Netflix. Won’t be for a long while before they consider doing anything to him again.

    I'm sorry but, you did read through the topic, right?
This discussion has been closed.