Removal of Revive Farming and the Apothecary Discussion

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  • Ironman3000Ironman3000 Member Posts: 1,958 ★★★★★
    rischio said:

    Here’s my thoughts. If Kabam wanted to nerf revive farming, why not just remove the option for items to be kept even if you exit the quest? That would slow down revive farming by a good portion, but not eliminate it completely. For some reason, it has to be all or nothing with Kabam.

    Personally, I don’t want them to touch it, but I thought it was at least interesting that they would remove it entirely instead of making a compromise.

    no one is doing this. the quest resets only if the boss goes down so you don't exit the quest, you consume the whole 40 energy (wow!) and down the boss. rinse and repeat.
    if you exit the quest you have no respawn of the revives.
    When the map has multiple pots/refills that's exactly what people do.
  • rischiorischio Member Posts: 163

    rischio said:

    Here’s my thoughts. If Kabam wanted to nerf revive farming, why not just remove the option for items to be kept even if you exit the quest? That would slow down revive farming by a good portion, but not eliminate it completely. For some reason, it has to be all or nothing with Kabam.

    Personally, I don’t want them to touch it, but I thought it was at least interesting that they would remove it entirely instead of making a compromise.

    no one is doing this. the quest resets only if the boss goes down so you don't exit the quest, you consume the whole 40 energy (wow!) and down the boss. rinse and repeat.
    if you exit the quest you have no respawn of the revives.
    When the map has multiple pots/refills that's exactly what people do.
    yeah, but it's not the core of the issue. if you remove that you change the farming capability very little if not at all.
  • AldacAldac Member Posts: 478 ★★★
    edited March 2023
    Played and loved the game since 2017 and spent a fortune on it over the years (happily, since I’ve treated it as a hobby). There have definitely been ups and downs and bad periods, but this feels like one of the most serious. I’m not a revive farmer but knowing it was possible to do now and again made otherwise impossible content seem somewhat doable. Regardless, the main issue seems to be their misreading of the situation and the overly adversarial attitude toward players (who are mostly, let’s face it, customers). Considering the game has multiple bugs and playability issues and the introduction of 7-stars is already controversial, this seems like the wrong time to be picking fights with a loyal player base. I don’t know if something’s changed at the company but I get the impression they don’t realise how this kind of thing can spiral out of control and become much more serious than a few players spamming methods which have been in the game for years and years.
  • TheWatcher_TheWatcher_ Member Posts: 153
    The fact that you can't auto play it is just ridiculous and why is there paths that have a "Chance" at getting a level 1 team healing potion. To me that's just stupid
  • Kaizen_KingKaizen_King Member Posts: 306 ★★★

    This thread now has 37.3 k views. Have the slight feeling that player base is concerned a bit

    I’ve personally never seen the community get together like this in almost all unison
    Ya... too bad we won't do this over all the bugs in the game. Used to be top content creators did "state of the game" videos when stuff got this bad with the game but not anymore.
  • LiquidkoldLiquidkold Member Posts: 200 ★★
    28 pages into this conversation and 1 comment from Kabam. Clearly they need to know this is upsetting to the community. Kind of shows how out of touch the company is. If they want to stop the farming then let us save up our revives to a much higher level. We do not need them all of the time. I find myself selling them because they sat in my over flow too long. We do not have hard content to beat all of the time, so I waste a lot of them. Then something comes out that I need them and they are not there. It is not fair to us. Not everyone has the skill of the top players and depend on using revives. Maybe we go back to no limits on inventory like it was when the game started.
  • mdm_mimdm_mi Member Posts: 47
    Don’t increase the cap. Remove it all together for revives and potions. If someone wants to complete the content on Day 1, then they will have to spend. If someone wants to acquire over 100 revives over 2 months and then clear content, then they won’t have to.
  • o_oo_o Member Posts: 835 ★★★★
    chunkyb said:

    Kabam Jax said:

    Hey Summoners,

    Thank you for your feedback, we are reading every comment. Please keep your messages constructive; most of you have so far, thank you for that.

    Based on the feedback in this thread, we have started internal discussions around adjusting revive/potion inventory caps. This is not a guaranteed change, but is what is most prominently being discussed.

    These conversations will continue to take place behind the scenes and could grow to include other potential adjustments as well.

    We will use this thread to provide updates if/when we have news to share.

    This happens every year or so. Kabam wants a huge correction that will kneecap players, so they overdo it intentionally to create the overwhelming reaction.
    They sit and watch it churn for a while and then slide in with a "no promises, but we're talking about things over here".

    Eventually, the kneecapping is right where they wanted it and players stupidly feel like they got a small win in a bad situation. Kabam has used the same crowd control techniques since 12.0. It's crazy that it always seems to work on people. It's funny how it's always a new rep that does it. I'm guessing their studies show that one time is all you get before you burn any capital that had been previously built up.

    Players seem to be smarter on the whole now. Maybe it's memories of all the other times when they've been absolutely screwed, idk. I've seen a whole lotta love for this paeticular rep and maybe he's earned that. Idk, I've been gone. Either way, using the fav rep to run this scheme is the way it goes lol.

    Nevertheless, kabam doesn't want you having enough revives. Doesn't matter (to them) if they said it was OK before. They said AA's passive stun was ok right here on the forum. Then they took it away bc it was "game-breaking" and introduced the new character w passive stun. It's how this stuff works. And that's the bottom line. Kabam isn't going to permaban players that keep rewards from you. Kabam isn't going to fix the things that haunt you every time you play. Kabam isn't going to make a fair game for those competitive players out there. And they're not going to let you earn what you need to get thru content... Not in the way you want. But they are going to present poo sandwiches to you and tell you they're full of vitamins and minerals and riboflavin and we have to eat then for the good of the game.

    It's not bc they can't fix things or make proper corrections... It's bc investing into any of that isn't worth what they'll get out of it. The calculations have been done by a team of people you pay and it's not worth it. Never has been. Never will be. That team is much larger and better compensated than anyone that's "dedicated to investigating" war seasons or bg's or arenas btw.

    People just need to figure out what their investment is worth to them tbh.
    Best post


  • 2nd_Att3mpt2nd_Att3mpt Member Posts: 18
    So @kabamjax do you think the game Devs have now read the room? From what I have perused so far I think I get the sense that this is not a good move. What are your gut feelings on this?
  • MackeyMackey Member Posts: 1,597 ★★★★★
    Jefechuta said:

    Mackey said:

    Patrick44 said:

    Kabam Jax said:

    Hey Summoners,

    Thank you for your feedback, we are reading every comment. Please keep your messages constructive; most of you have so far, thank you for that.

    Based on the feedback in this thread, we have started internal discussions around adjusting revive/potion inventory caps. This is not a guaranteed change, but is what is most prominently being discussed.

    These conversations will continue to take place behind the scenes and could grow to include other potential adjustments as well.

    We will use this thread to provide updates if/when we have news to share.

    Or just don’t change anything and recant the announcement. Your customers are very upset
    Not to be that guy, but you mean the
    Jefechuta said:

    Emilia90 said:

    Jefechuta said:

    Jefechuta said:

    I dont know if anyone already stated this but:


    I fairly think this is one of the best decissions they could make, content is done too easily by people that are not even skilled enough to do it just spamming revives, so this encourages people to try to learn how to really play the game properly, not only this but makes the challenging things challenging, when people is able to do this content the first day it goes out just spamming 60 revives that means that something must be done, If anyone thinks that 2 revives PER DAY is not enough, that only shows how bad people became. Getting revives became way easier than before, so I think is fair to nerf the amount we can get by farming them.

    The main problem I see here, is that they done this in the worst moment possible, since people need more revives because everything in the game is bugged, so they should have waited a little bit more to make this changes until they fixed at least half of the bugs they have currently in game.

    And to be fair with Kabam, this is not a charity, this is a company, we already get almost everything free, I dont think its that bad to have to play more Arenas to get more revives for the hard content, or spending to get them.

    I think its just a bad timing, but a really good decission, I expect a lot of disagrees but sorry fams, I dont think this is about opinions, since I repeat, you dont need more than 2 revives a day, or you shouldnt need them, If you need them then that means you are not playing properly, so you should try to change it, you dont wanna try to improve your skills? Then I think it is fair to pay for the revives then, and I say this being a F2P player.

    Farming disagrees? How will that help your progression?
    You should progress playing better, making your roster bigger, and getting resources playing if you dont want to spend money, but being able to farm the amount of revives you want because the challenges are too challenging for you is just nonsense.

    If im not able to do X content, I shouldnt just spam revives, I should see why and fix it, If its because im not good enough, I improve my skills, if its because I dont have certain champions, I try to farm shards to look for them or grind arena to get those.

    And as I said, I dont think they should make this change NOW, since the game is completely bugged, but it is not a bad change itself.
    That’s such a dumb take. Everest content is literally impossible to do reviveless for most people. Carina challenges force you to use champs in non ideal matchups and most good players spent around 40 revives per path if they don’t have Hercules. The game issues also completely invalidate any skill that a player has, so unless you think every player is MSD, this isn’t happening.

    But yeah, just say “gEt GoOd” as if that’s the problem here. Revive farming helps f2p players do the content without spending what units they’ve saved up. This isn’t a matter of skill, it’s a matter of having a Hercules and revive spamming through the rest of the content, even if you’re that good.

    Yes, it is a bad change. Players need these revives for content like this and it was a good avenue for f2p players.
    Yep, you are right, and the game shouldnt be "Use Hercules and spam revives", thats why the change is good.

    And again, if you do Everest content should be because you are in the group of top players of the game, the fact that people with not big enough roster or not enough skills tries to do it spamming revives doesnt mean that that Everest Content is meant for them, same with Carina's Challenges.

    And I repeat once again, since no one likes to read this part, the CHANGE ITSELF is GOOD, the MOMENT THEY WANT TO APPLY IT is BAD, since the game is completely bugged and people use more revives

    Mackey said:

    SandeepS said:

    I think they wrote a bad post on purpose. They will wait for the reaction and then change the revive to be guarenteed once per day. Then they will say, we backed down and comprimised and hope that settles the community.

    If they started with the guarenteed revive per day there would still be community outrage and would be more difficult to win the community over afterwards

    You realise that in the post they do say we will get 1 revives per day right? From exploring the hard quest. So that is a guarantee
    Wow 1 lvl 1 revive potion. That'll really help us push difficult content. Oh and don't forget those lvl 1 and 2 health potions. You know, cuz characters with 50k-100k really get a benefit from 375-750 health points. What a joke
    Oh I'm not sitting here saying "1 guaranteed revive is acceptable" iirc the post I replied to was saying something about having at least 1 revive would be OK or something like that.

    Personally I think they should leave the whole thing as it is and if revive spamming is causing as big of a problem as they say then limit the amount of items we can use in these difficult content. However, they won't do that as they won't *potentially* make more money which is what they are hoping to achieve.
  • Ironman3000Ironman3000 Member Posts: 1,958 ★★★★★
    So how long until they nerf ROL pots?
  • RapRap Member Posts: 3,233 ★★★★
    If this is the way it is going to be? I think it is time to make ALL revive and restore pots a percentage.
    The bulk of them are useless for higher tier champs. If they were all, t1 and up, a % it would not matter what tier the summoner has reached, they would be relevent and useful at every level of the game.
    So fine, take away farming! But improve your product if you will not let us accumilate the massive numbers it takes to restores a 6* or God forbid! A 7???
  • xjdalegendxxjdalegendx Member Posts: 41
    edited March 2023
    Here’s my thing about the whole taking away the revives, game progression solely depends on the amount of revives you have. If that is slowed down in any way then time on the game will decrease (some may just leave the game altogether cause of how content will drag on). Also considering that you run out of revives you’d have to start the quest over again just to go and collect one L1 revive. The way I see it, this is a way to force ppl to use units. Another thing on that, many of us see this move as a money grabbing move, but in reality this will indeed hurt your pockets Kabam because many of my friends (and a lot more ppl) have talked about going ftp for the simple fact that this is happening, in which if a mass ftp wave happens it will heavily affect revenue that I’m sure y’all have goals on. I don’t think this is a smart move for many reasons. Instead I have a suggestion, let’s say for long content like abyss and eop…a system where you can get extra rewards for the amount of revives used would be more efficient. The more revives used the lesser the rewards, the least amount of revives used the higher the rewards. This will hinder revive spamming if the rewards are really good for using less revives.
  • XC123456789XC123456789 Member Posts: 11
    Disappointed to see this change however I understand it. I think we need to increase the amount of revives you can get from the new quest as 1 a day is not enough. Additionally I would like to see Kabam reduce the energy cost or make the quest energy free.

    Can we also add some consumables to thronebreaker EQ?
  • SoazzerMcFlySoazzerMcFly Member Posts: 2
    rischio said:

    rischio said:

    Here’s my thoughts. If Kabam wanted to nerf revive farming, why not just remove the option for items to be kept even if you exit the quest? That would slow down revive farming by a good portion, but not eliminate it completely. For some reason, it has to be all or nothing with Kabam.

    Personally, I don’t want them to touch it, but I thought it was at least interesting that they would remove it entirely instead of making a compromise.

    no one is doing this. the quest resets only if the boss goes down so you don't exit the quest, you consume the whole 40 energy (wow!) and down the boss. rinse and repeat.
    if you exit the quest you have no respawn of the revives.
    When the map has multiple pots/refills that's exactly what people do.
    yeah, but it's not the core of the issue. if you remove that you change the farming capability very little if not at all.
    My main point is that Kabam goes 0 to 60 to solve a problem, instead of troubleshooting ideas. They shoot themselves in the foot when they make a big change and then stick to their guns. Instead of completely taking away revive farming, why not nerf it a touch here or there. And they have to know that the apothecary is not a worthy trade off.
  • MrSakuragiMrSakuragi Member Posts: 5,289 ★★★★★
    BinkPlayz said:

    Contradiction:
    Kabam in the opening paragraph in the forum post:
    "introducing a new way to earn consumables without having to rely on path RNG."

    Also Kabam, in the same forum post, they introduced a RNG component to rely on:
    Easy - One Path has "a 1% chance of containing 1 level 1 revive"
    Hard - One Path has "a 5% chance of containing 1 level 1 revive"

    Bonus Question(s):
    "This frenzied revive farming trivializes difficult content like Carina’s Challenges and Eternity of Pain because Summoners simply spam revives. For us to allow what is effectively a loophole for these challenging pieces of content, we would have to dilute rewards given from that content, and that is not something we want to do."

    Since the beginning, people have earned millions of battlechips in Arenas and cashed them in for units and used the units to buy revives to beat challenging pieces of content. Please explain how this as any less of a loophole, and, if applicable, explain how you plan to either correct what is effectively another loophole or how you plan to dilute the rewards. What's the difference between spending 60 minutes/day in Arena vs 3.2.6? Why is one detrimental to the game and the other is not?

    Contradiction:
    Kabam in the opening paragraph in the forum post:
    "introducing a new way to earn consumables without having to rely on path RNG."

    Also Kabam, in the same forum post, they introduced a RNG component to rely on:
    Easy - One Path has "a 1% chance of containing 1 level 1 revive"
    Hard - One Path has "a 5% chance of containing 1 level 1 revive"

    Bonus Question(s):
    "This frenzied revive farming trivializes difficult content like Carina’s Challenges and Eternity of Pain because Summoners simply spam revives. For us to allow what is effectively a loophole for these challenging pieces of content, we would have to dilute rewards given from that content, and that is not something we want to do."

    Since the beginning, people have earned millions of battlechips in Arenas and cashed them in for units and used the units to buy revives to beat challenging pieces of content. Please explain how this as any less of a loophole, and, if applicable, explain how you plan to either correct what is effectively another loophole or how you plan to dilute the rewards. What's the difference between spending 60 minutes/day in Arena vs 3.2.6? Why is one detrimental to the game and the other is not?

    Can’t have us not using units on revives, how else are we gonna spend our money to spam revives!
    Please don’t trivialize hard content, thanks.

    Love,
    Kabam
  • vicmasterrvicmasterr Member Posts: 33

    I know a lot of people are mad. But if you think about it, Kabam is giving you a great opportunity to reevaluate how you play the game.

    Instead of being mad, pissy and outraged; think about the money that you will be saving. For me it gives me a sense of relief and puts a little smile on my face.

    I have almost the same story. Previously I didn't really mind to spend 20-50 euro / month for Paragon daily offers or other stuff. But I don't really see a need anymore.

    I'm still a bit frustrated by the fact that the game changes its focus from developing content for its users to obvious increasing of monetisation (how much an average player spends in the game). From this point of view, I can even say that I didn't really enjoy getting the Paragon title because Act 7 didn't really bring any challenge for me comparing to Act 6 and the Thronebreaker journey. For me it was just about spending extra money to get resources for those bloody R4 6-star champs. Which I think is terribly wrong. I mean, I don't really mind to spend a few euros but the game should have brought some increasing challenge.

    And now they drop farming, which seems to have another hidden reason behind - increasing monetisation by making people spending more money on units. It feels so terribly wrong because they have lots of higher priority problems to fix (bugs, modders), but they don't do that
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