I understand that Bottlenecks will always exist. What I'm worried about is that Kabam is putting such a priority on roster progression, while creating a massive imbalance between resources that only affects certain players, which I believe is unintentional.
If someone has lots of catalysts but no gold to use them, that's a massive imbalance in resources. But if a player has tons of gold, that's just fine because they don't have the same massive imbalance between resources anymore and obviously no shortage
I'm not referring to player's individual accounts when I mention the imbalance, I'm referring to the volume of resources available. There are lots and lots of catalysts, shards and ISO up for grabs every month and not very much Gold comparatively.
That's simply objectively not true. If it were true, virtually everyone would have gold issues, because if this was a global limitation, by definition no one can escape such limits. For anyone to have a lot of gold, that gold must actually exist in the game to be acquired in the first place.
You could argue that the gold only exists behind paywalls, but that's also provably false in several ways. First of all, while I do spend I don't tend to spend on the things that would generate a lot of gold, and I've had a lot of gold for almost my entire playing time in MCOC. I haven't always spent. More importantly, the vast majority of MCOC players don't spend cash. Therefore, if gold was globally short in the non-spending game economy, the vast majority of players who do not spend cash would then be subject to that economic limitation and thus the vast majority would have a gold problem. But that's certainly not the case.
I keep posting gold numbers, but the attitude seems to be the numbers don't matter because the problem exists, so it must exist regardless of the numbers. The numbers say the gold is there in the economy to be gotten. The problem therefore lies either with how the players interact with those rewards, or their expectations for how much gold they actually expect to have. Just because two players claim to have a gold problem, doesn't mean it is the same problem. I've seen people complain that because they "need" to rank up lots of champs for Battlegrounds to be competitive, they "need" enough gold to do that, and anything else is a problem.
That's not a game economy problem.
> Just because two players claim to have a gold problem, doesn't mean it is the same problem.
Just wow. It just mean you are out of touch with lots of players.
I understand that Bottlenecks will always exist. What I'm worried about is that Kabam is putting such a priority on roster progression, while creating a massive imbalance between resources that only affects certain players, which I believe is unintentional.
If someone has lots of catalysts but no gold to use them, that's a massive imbalance in resources. But if a player has tons of gold, that's just fine because they don't have the same massive imbalance between resources anymore and obviously no shortage
I'm not referring to player's individual accounts when I mention the imbalance, I'm referring to the volume of resources available. There are lots and lots of catalysts, shards and ISO up for grabs every month and not very much Gold comparatively.
For anyone to have a lot of gold, that gold must actually exist in the game to be acquired in the first place.
Yes, and my argument is that the majority of players not suffering from a gold shortage are players who earned the majority of their gold before the recent economy became imbalanced, as well as being players who don't have as much of a need to spend Gold as newer players. Players who are sitting on 100 million gold likely didn't earn all of that in the past 4 months.
I definitely don't believe Gold is all behind a paywall. I'm a casual spender myself.
Gold numbers do matter, I've seen a few of helpful breakdowns in this thread talking about exact numbers. I haven't seen anyone break down how much Gold progressing players should have access to (compared to what they currently do have access to). Likely because it isn't that simple.
I'm not sure where exactly you're getting your data on the number of players claiming to have a Gold problem. If it's the forums, I wouldn't take that as an accurate representation. As I've said, I'm speaking strictly for progressing players. Most Forum members are not people I would consider progressing, though I know I haven't defined exactly what I mean by that. Just to throw a definition out there, anyone prioritizing rank 4's or above aren't players I would consider progressing. I believe all content in mcoc can currently be handled simply with rank 3's, so that's where I think the line is drawn.
I understand that Bottlenecks will always exist. What I'm worried about is that Kabam is putting such a priority on roster progression, while creating a massive imbalance between resources that only affects certain players, which I believe is unintentional.
If someone has lots of catalysts but no gold to use them, that's a massive imbalance in resources. But if a player has tons of gold, that's just fine because they don't have the same massive imbalance between resources anymore and obviously no shortage
I'm not referring to player's individual accounts when I mention the imbalance, I'm referring to the volume of resources available. There are lots and lots of catalysts, shards and ISO up for grabs every month and not very much Gold comparatively.
For anyone to have a lot of gold, that gold must actually exist in the game to be acquired in the first place.
Yes, and my argument is that the majority of players not suffering from a gold shortage are players who earned the majority of their gold before the recent economy became imbalanced, as well as being players who don't have as much of a need to spend Gold as newer players. Players who are sitting on 100 million gold likely didn't earn all of that in the past 4 months.
I definitely don't believe Gold is all behind a paywall. I'm a casual spender myself.
Gold numbers do matter, I've seen a few of helpful breakdowns in this thread talking about exact numbers. I haven't seen anyone break down how much Gold progressing players should have access to (compared to what they currently do have access to). Likely because it isn't that simple.
I'm not sure where exactly you're getting your data on the number of players claiming to have a Gold problem. If it's the forums, I wouldn't take that as an accurate representation. As I've said, I'm speaking strictly for progressing players. Most Forum members are not people I would consider progressing, though I know I haven't defined exactly what I mean by that. Just to throw a definition out there, anyone prioritizing rank 4's or above aren't players I would consider progressing. I believe all content in mcoc can currently be handled simply with rank 3's, so that's where I think the line is drawn.
Just throwing an idea out there, but could the problem be not that gold is lacking but that other materials became too inflated? 6* shards have become very common with players not yet UC having them now. BG store increased the ease of getting catalysts that another R3 is nothing anymore for paragons.
I understand that Bottlenecks will always exist. What I'm worried about is that Kabam is putting such a priority on roster progression, while creating a massive imbalance between resources that only affects certain players, which I believe is unintentional.
If someone has lots of catalysts but no gold to use them, that's a massive imbalance in resources. But if a player has tons of gold, that's just fine because they don't have the same massive imbalance between resources anymore and obviously no shortage
I'm not referring to player's individual accounts when I mention the imbalance, I'm referring to the volume of resources available. There are lots and lots of catalysts, shards and ISO up for grabs every month and not very much Gold comparatively.
For anyone to have a lot of gold, that gold must actually exist in the game to be acquired in the first place.
Yes, and my argument is that the majority of players not suffering from a gold shortage are players who earned the majority of their gold before the recent economy became imbalanced, as well as being players who don't have as much of a need to spend Gold as newer players. Players who are sitting on 100 million gold likely didn't earn all of that in the past 4 months.
Those are also trivially disprovable. Think of all the Race to X with new account stuff that has been done, including very recently. These accounts are at the absolute limits of progression speed, and have had no time to grind for anything, including gold. They are the accounts most likely to run into absolute gold bottlenecks and be incapable of ranking at all. But they don't. Of course, they have to manage their gold like it was, well, gold. They have to be extremely judicious with rank ups, because every rank up counts and they can spare no progression side tracks. But for all intents and purposes, this is the worst case scenario. If any account is going to be *forced* to just stop and wait because they need a rank up but can't do it, it is these accounts.
They struggle, but they don't just stop. Every normal player takes at least ten times longer to get to the same place if not more, and have had far more opportunities to earn gold relative to the champions and catalysts they earn, because progression content is tilted towards champion and catalyst acquisition.
What tends to differ between these challenge accounts and "normal" accounts is that challenge accounts must make due with whatever they have. They are usually driven by much more experienced players that can make due with less, so they can afford to rank affordable options to keep within budget and still keep up high progress speed. Normal accounts made today have options veterans did not have when they first started, including faster acquisition of higher rarity champions. These are much more expensive to rank, relative to earning power. It is a choice to shift attention to these champions, and that choice comes with the issue of needing more gold (among other things) which take time to acquire. That time drops as the player progresses and their earning power increases, but it is still pretty high. But again, this is a choice: the player can choose to leapfrog progression and aim for higher rarities, but this comes at the expense of slowing down roster progress initially.
This is most definitely deliberate, and necessarily so. At least until the low level game gets refactored again, which it might in another couple of progression tiers.
I understand that Bottlenecks will always exist. What I'm worried about is that Kabam is putting such a priority on roster progression, while creating a massive imbalance between resources that only affects certain players, which I believe is unintentional.
If someone has lots of catalysts but no gold to use them, that's a massive imbalance in resources. But if a player has tons of gold, that's just fine because they don't have the same massive imbalance between resources anymore and obviously no shortage
I'm not referring to player's individual accounts when I mention the imbalance, I'm referring to the volume of resources available. There are lots and lots of catalysts, shards and ISO up for grabs every month and not very much Gold comparatively.
For anyone to have a lot of gold, that gold must actually exist in the game to be acquired in the first place.
Yes, and my argument is that the majority of players not suffering from a gold shortage are players who earned the majority of their gold before the recent economy became imbalanced, as well as being players who don't have as much of a need to spend Gold as newer players. Players who are sitting on 100 million gold likely didn't earn all of that in the past 4 months.
I definitely don't believe Gold is all behind a paywall. I'm a casual spender myself.
Gold numbers do matter, I've seen a few of helpful breakdowns in this thread talking about exact numbers. I haven't seen anyone break down how much Gold progressing players should have access to (compared to what they currently do have access to). Likely because it isn't that simple.
I'm not sure where exactly you're getting your data on the number of players claiming to have a Gold problem. If it's the forums, I wouldn't take that as an accurate representation. As I've said, I'm speaking strictly for progressing players. Most Forum members are not people I would consider progressing, though I know I haven't defined exactly what I mean by that. Just to throw a definition out there, anyone prioritizing rank 4's or above aren't players I would consider progressing. I believe all content in mcoc can currently be handled simply with rank 3's, so that's where I think the line is drawn.
Just throwing an idea out there, but could the problem be not that gold is lacking but that other materials became too inflated? 6* shards have become very common with players not yet UC having them now. BG store increased the ease of getting catalysts that another R3 is nothing anymore for paragons.
And then we have game modes that require meta rankups to not fall behind. The reasonable move would have been to scale availability of gold with materials.
I understand that Bottlenecks will always exist. What I'm worried about is that Kabam is putting such a priority on roster progression, while creating a massive imbalance between resources that only affects certain players, which I believe is unintentional.
If someone has lots of catalysts but no gold to use them, that's a massive imbalance in resources. But if a player has tons of gold, that's just fine because they don't have the same massive imbalance between resources anymore and obviously no shortage
I'm not referring to player's individual accounts when I mention the imbalance, I'm referring to the volume of resources available. There are lots and lots of catalysts, shards and ISO up for grabs every month and not very much Gold comparatively.
For anyone to have a lot of gold, that gold must actually exist in the game to be acquired in the first place.
Yes, and my argument is that the majority of players not suffering from a gold shortage are players who earned the majority of their gold before the recent economy became imbalanced, as well as being players who don't have as much of a need to spend Gold as newer players. Players who are sitting on 100 million gold likely didn't earn all of that in the past 4 months.
I definitely don't believe Gold is all behind a paywall. I'm a casual spender myself.
Gold numbers do matter, I've seen a few of helpful breakdowns in this thread talking about exact numbers. I haven't seen anyone break down how much Gold progressing players should have access to (compared to what they currently do have access to). Likely because it isn't that simple.
I'm not sure where exactly you're getting your data on the number of players claiming to have a Gold problem. If it's the forums, I wouldn't take that as an accurate representation. As I've said, I'm speaking strictly for progressing players. Most Forum members are not people I would consider progressing, though I know I haven't defined exactly what I mean by that. Just to throw a definition out there, anyone prioritizing rank 4's or above aren't players I would consider progressing. I believe all content in mcoc can currently be handled simply with rank 3's, so that's where I think the line is drawn.
Just throwing an idea out there, but could the problem be not that gold is lacking but that other materials became too inflated? 6* shards have become very common with players not yet UC having them now. BG store increased the ease of getting catalysts that another R3 is nothing anymore for paragons.
And then we have game modes that require meta rankups to not fall behind. The reasonable move would have been to scale availability of gold with materials.
But this is also an RNG resource managing game, which by definition means you can't have everything. You have to choose between gold/catalysts/shards/etc. Either you rank up the best champs for each individual meta which or you rank more casually and sparingly (relatively speaking). The former scenario gives you beta champ acquisition and rank up materials, but the latter gives more gold. The choice is yours, but to accept the rewards of one means you have to accept the cost of it as well.
What I’m confused about is that those of us who don’t have a gold problem are being told our opinion doesn’t matter as we already have established accounts
The problem mostly comes with some people in this thread being outright dismissive, and that goes for both sides, but it's a lot harder to understand how 6 month active accounts need to operate as a 6 year active account.
And as for more Gold being available now than ever, that's true, but that goes for every resource in the game as well as how much players need to use them. That's just a fact of the economy, the hard part is balancing it all out.
As for the psychological aspect, finally putting to use my one year of AP Psych, I believe that's what schedules of reinforcements are for. "Reinforcement" being the key word. Schedules of reinforcements are put in place to keep players engaged. I believe mcoc (mostly) follows variable ratio intervals, which means they reinforce players after an unpredictable amount of time. That way, players keep playing without being fully aware of when the amount of work invested will pay off any more or less than any other time. If players knew exactly when the best time to grind was, players would only engage with the game during those windows of time. This isn't always the case for spenders though, since we all know to just wait for the holidays.
But schedules of reinforcement require actual reinforcement. The issue I believe a lot of players like me are experiencing is a lack of reinforcement with Gold. I've been short on Gold for my entire mcoc history, most especially the last 4 months that I've been actively playing. If the Gold bottleneck isn't letting up, players aren't being reinforced to believe their experience will change all that much. That makes every month equally predictable. Awesome new quest? Bet I won't be able to use any of the rewards. New Featured just dropped? Can't wait to leave Silk at rank 1 level 1 for the next few weeks. Should I grind BGs for the shards and catalysts, entirely believing I won't be able to use them yet again? Probably not. The less players are reinforced, the less players can really feel engaged.
The real issue is at the bottom of this whole debate is that people that claim there's gold shortage think they should be able rank any and every champ as soon as they get them
I have a Gold shortage and I don't think I should be able to rank any and every champ as soon as I get them. Again, that's just assuming and dismissive.
Then you don't have a gold shortage.
I really don't see how you can make statements like that while still claiming to not be dismissive. You're going wildly to either extreme. Either I'm doing the right thing and I don't have a problem or I'm doing the wrong thing and I do have a problem. The idea of a gold shortage exists because there are obvious cases of players doing the right thing and still having a problem. If you can't understand that idea without generalizing the entire opposing side of your argument, especially using past threads made during different times and by different people, the argument will just go in circles. Nobody can disprove or outreason the argument that some players are too entitled, that's just a blanket statement.
Having a few champs in the queue to rank up doesn't equate to being a gold shortage. A gold shortage would be there are extremely limited ways to obtain that resource
I know it doesn't, which is why that's not my argument in the slightest. A gold shortage would also be, the ways of obtaining gold provide an unreasonably low amount, as is my belief. If the amount of ways to obtain Gold is all that matters, they could throw 1 gold into each source and there still wouldn't be a shortage.
What I’m confused about is that those of us who don’t have a gold problem are being told our opinion doesn’t matter as we already have established accounts
The problem mostly comes with some people in this thread being outright dismissive, and that goes for both sides, but it's a lot harder to understand how 6 month active accounts need to operate as a 6 year active account.
And as for more Gold being available now than ever, that's true, but that goes for every resource in the game as well as how much players need to use them. That's just a fact of the economy, the hard part is balancing it all out.
As for the psychological aspect, finally putting to use my one year of AP Psych, I believe that's what schedules of reinforcements are for. "Reinforcement" being the key word. Schedules of reinforcements are put in place to keep players engaged. I believe mcoc (mostly) follows variable ratio intervals, which means they reinforce players after an unpredictable amount of time. That way, players keep playing without being fully aware of when the amount of work invested will pay off any more or less than any other time. If players knew exactly when the best time to grind was, players would only engage with the game during those windows of time. This isn't always the case for spenders though, since we all know to just wait for the holidays.
But schedules of reinforcement require actual reinforcement. The issue I believe a lot of players like me are experiencing is a lack of reinforcement with Gold. I've been short on Gold for my entire mcoc history, most especially the last 4 months that I've been actively playing. If the Gold bottleneck isn't letting up, players aren't being reinforced to believe their experience will change all that much. That makes every month equally predictable. Awesome new quest? Bet I won't be able to use any of the rewards. New Featured just dropped? Can't wait to leave Silk at rank 1 level 1 for the next few weeks. Should I grind BGs for the shards and catalysts, entirely believing I won't be able to use them yet again? Probably not. The less players are reinforced, the less players can really feel engaged.
The real issue is at the bottom of this whole debate is that people that claim there's gold shortage think they should be able rank any and every champ as soon as they get them
I have a Gold shortage and I don't think I should be able to rank any and every champ as soon as I get them. Again, that's just assuming and dismissive.
Then you don't have a gold shortage.
I really don't see how you can make statements like that while still claiming to not be dismissive. You're going wildly to either extreme. Either I'm doing the right thing and I don't have a problem or I'm doing the wrong thing and I do have a problem. The idea of a gold shortage exists because there are obvious cases of players doing the right thing and still having a problem. If you can't understand that idea without generalizing the entire opposing side of your argument, especially using past threads made during different times and by different people, the argument will just go in circles. Nobody can disprove or outreason the argument that some players are too entitled, that's just a blanket statement.
Again, those of us that say we have no gold issues, have valid points. You dismiss them because they aren't solutions YOU want to hear. You don't want to be told that arena is a solution. You don't want to be told that you'll have to pace your rank-ups. You want to be told what you want to hear. You only want people to come to these threads and be like "year, there's a shortage". You want your echo chamber to play to satisfy your bias. You want them to tell you how bad Kabam is with their economy.
I haven't dismissed anything that I thought was a genuine attempt at providing a solution. I will continue to dismiss people who try to tell me what I want.
What would you view as a fair and reasonable amount of gold would be and how to obtain it?
You keep mention wanting to compete, but really competing at it's core comes down to time/money and skill. The more skill you have, the less time or money you would need, but at the end of the day, those willing to put in the most time or the most money win the competition. What would be a fair way for newer accounts to compete against accounts that have already put in the time?
When you dupe a champ, you should get enough gold to rank them 1 level. Paragon level gold crystals should also be available in 22hr events.
That's crazy talk. Lol
Why is it crazy talk?
For one, a R1 6* is 529k gold. You want to get a half million gold for a 6* dupe?
Sure, what’s wrong with that? Too much? What’s a reasonable amount for a 6* dupe? 1200 gold?
Of course it's too much. That's just way too high of an expectation. I'd be fine if they increased the amount of gold for a dupe but that's not the main point of awakening a champion. 25k-50k would be fine.
I understand that Bottlenecks will always exist. What I'm worried about is that Kabam is putting such a priority on roster progression, while creating a massive imbalance between resources that only affects certain players, which I believe is unintentional.
If someone has lots of catalysts but no gold to use them, that's a massive imbalance in resources. But if a player has tons of gold, that's just fine because they don't have the same massive imbalance between resources anymore and obviously no shortage
I'm not referring to player's individual accounts when I mention the imbalance, I'm referring to the volume of resources available. There are lots and lots of catalysts, shards and ISO up for grabs every month and not very much Gold comparatively.
For anyone to have a lot of gold, that gold must actually exist in the game to be acquired in the first place.
Yes, and my argument is that the majority of players not suffering from a gold shortage are players who earned the majority of their gold before the recent economy became imbalanced, as well as being players who don't have as much of a need to spend Gold as newer players. Players who are sitting on 100 million gold likely didn't earn all of that in the past 4 months.
I definitely don't believe Gold is all behind a paywall. I'm a casual spender myself.
Gold numbers do matter, I've seen a few of helpful breakdowns in this thread talking about exact numbers. I haven't seen anyone break down how much Gold progressing players should have access to (compared to what they currently do have access to). Likely because it isn't that simple.
I'm not sure where exactly you're getting your data on the number of players claiming to have a Gold problem. If it's the forums, I wouldn't take that as an accurate representation. As I've said, I'm speaking strictly for progressing players. Most Forum members are not people I would consider progressing, though I know I haven't defined exactly what I mean by that. Just to throw a definition out there, anyone prioritizing rank 4's or above aren't players I would consider progressing. I believe all content in mcoc can currently be handled simply with rank 3's, so that's where I think the line is drawn.
Just throwing an idea out there, but could the problem be not that gold is lacking but that other materials became too inflated? 6* shards have become very common with players not yet UC having them now. BG store increased the ease of getting catalysts that another R3 is nothing anymore for paragons.
And then we have game modes that require meta rankups to not fall behind. The reasonable move would have been to scale availability of gold with materials.
But this is also an RNG resource managing game, which by definition means you can't have everything. You have to choose between gold/catalysts/shards/etc. Either you rank up the best champs for each individual meta which or you rank more casually and sparingly (relatively speaking). The former scenario gives you beta champ acquisition and rank up materials, but the latter gives more gold. The choice is yours, but to accept the rewards of one means you have to accept the cost of it as well.
Let's say you're a relatively mid-level player that barely scrapes into GC to maximize your rankups and progress. Every season, there are 2 metas. Lets say you want to take 2 champs up to r3 each meta.
That's 1.5mil gold each. So you're looking at 6mil gold just for 4 champions to r3.
If you're a relatively sweaty tryhard, you're taking them to r4. That's 3.1mil each so 12mil.
When people say "there's no gold shortage", it's because they ignore just how crazy expensive it is to rank champs. Assuming you only rank for BGs, exclude AW (attack and defense) and content, 6mil gold a month means you've wiped out all the gold from EQ and SQ.
Then add, getting the odd 7* and leveling them up... The idea that gold is a complete non-issue is hard to comprehend when you have the whaliest of whales selling ISO for gold. Yeah maybe if your account is similar or equal to mine (2 7r2 and 45 6r4+) you can hold off on ranking, but there are lots of Paragon accounts that aren't in the same position.
I understand that Bottlenecks will always exist. What I'm worried about is that Kabam is putting such a priority on roster progression, while creating a massive imbalance between resources that only affects certain players, which I believe is unintentional.
If someone has lots of catalysts but no gold to use them, that's a massive imbalance in resources. But if a player has tons of gold, that's just fine because they don't have the same massive imbalance between resources anymore and obviously no shortage
I'm not referring to player's individual accounts when I mention the imbalance, I'm referring to the volume of resources available. There are lots and lots of catalysts, shards and ISO up for grabs every month and not very much Gold comparatively.
For anyone to have a lot of gold, that gold must actually exist in the game to be acquired in the first place.
Yes, and my argument is that the majority of players not suffering from a gold shortage are players who earned the majority of their gold before the recent economy became imbalanced, as well as being players who don't have as much of a need to spend Gold as newer players. Players who are sitting on 100 million gold likely didn't earn all of that in the past 4 months.
I definitely don't believe Gold is all behind a paywall. I'm a casual spender myself.
Gold numbers do matter, I've seen a few of helpful breakdowns in this thread talking about exact numbers. I haven't seen anyone break down how much Gold progressing players should have access to (compared to what they currently do have access to). Likely because it isn't that simple.
I'm not sure where exactly you're getting your data on the number of players claiming to have a Gold problem. If it's the forums, I wouldn't take that as an accurate representation. As I've said, I'm speaking strictly for progressing players. Most Forum members are not people I would consider progressing, though I know I haven't defined exactly what I mean by that. Just to throw a definition out there, anyone prioritizing rank 4's or above aren't players I would consider progressing. I believe all content in mcoc can currently be handled simply with rank 3's, so that's where I think the line is drawn.
Just throwing an idea out there, but could the problem be not that gold is lacking but that other materials became too inflated? 6* shards have become very common with players not yet UC having them now. BG store increased the ease of getting catalysts that another R3 is nothing anymore for paragons.
And then we have game modes that require meta rankups to not fall behind. The reasonable move would have been to scale availability of gold with materials.
But this is also an RNG resource managing game, which by definition means you can't have everything. You have to choose between gold/catalysts/shards/etc. Either you rank up the best champs for each individual meta which or you rank more casually and sparingly (relatively speaking). The former scenario gives you beta champ acquisition and rank up materials, but the latter gives more gold. The choice is yours, but to accept the rewards of one means you have to accept the cost of it as well.
Let's say you're a relatively mid-level player that barely scrapes into GC to maximize your rankups and progress. Every season, there are 2 metas. Lets say you want to take 2 champs up to r3 each meta.
That's 1.5mil gold each. So you're looking at 6mil gold just for 4 champions to r3.
If you're a relatively sweaty tryhard, you're taking them to r4. That's 3.1mil each so 12mil.
When people say "there's no gold shortage", it's because they ignore just how crazy expensive it is to rank champs. Assuming you only rank for BGs, exclude AW (attack and defense) and content, 6mil gold a month means you've wiped out all the gold from EQ and SQ.
Then add, getting the odd 7* and leveling them up... The idea that gold is a complete non-issue is hard to comprehend when you have the whaliest of whales selling ISO for gold. Yeah maybe if your account is similar or equal to mine (2 7r2 and 45 6r4+) you can hold off on ranking, but there are lots of Paragon accounts that aren't in the same position.
You're proving my point though. You chose the route of competitive rank ups which in turn give you more highly ranked champs. However, it comes at the cost of another resource: gold
I understand that Bottlenecks will always exist. What I'm worried about is that Kabam is putting such a priority on roster progression, while creating a massive imbalance between resources that only affects certain players, which I believe is unintentional.
If someone has lots of catalysts but no gold to use them, that's a massive imbalance in resources. But if a player has tons of gold, that's just fine because they don't have the same massive imbalance between resources anymore and obviously no shortage
I'm not referring to player's individual accounts when I mention the imbalance, I'm referring to the volume of resources available. There are lots and lots of catalysts, shards and ISO up for grabs every month and not very much Gold comparatively.
For anyone to have a lot of gold, that gold must actually exist in the game to be acquired in the first place.
Yes, and my argument is that the majority of players not suffering from a gold shortage are players who earned the majority of their gold before the recent economy became imbalanced, as well as being players who don't have as much of a need to spend Gold as newer players. Players who are sitting on 100 million gold likely didn't earn all of that in the past 4 months.
I definitely don't believe Gold is all behind a paywall. I'm a casual spender myself.
Gold numbers do matter, I've seen a few of helpful breakdowns in this thread talking about exact numbers. I haven't seen anyone break down how much Gold progressing players should have access to (compared to what they currently do have access to). Likely because it isn't that simple.
I'm not sure where exactly you're getting your data on the number of players claiming to have a Gold problem. If it's the forums, I wouldn't take that as an accurate representation. As I've said, I'm speaking strictly for progressing players. Most Forum members are not people I would consider progressing, though I know I haven't defined exactly what I mean by that. Just to throw a definition out there, anyone prioritizing rank 4's or above aren't players I would consider progressing. I believe all content in mcoc can currently be handled simply with rank 3's, so that's where I think the line is drawn.
Just throwing an idea out there, but could the problem be not that gold is lacking but that other materials became too inflated? 6* shards have become very common with players not yet UC having them now. BG store increased the ease of getting catalysts that another R3 is nothing anymore for paragons.
And then we have game modes that require meta rankups to not fall behind. The reasonable move would have been to scale availability of gold with materials.
But this is also an RNG resource managing game, which by definition means you can't have everything. You have to choose between gold/catalysts/shards/etc. Either you rank up the best champs for each individual meta which or you rank more casually and sparingly (relatively speaking). The former scenario gives you beta champ acquisition and rank up materials, but the latter gives more gold. The choice is yours, but to accept the rewards of one means you have to accept the cost of it as well.
Let's say you're a relatively mid-level player that barely scrapes into GC to maximize your rankups and progress. Every season, there are 2 metas. Lets say you want to take 2 champs up to r3 each meta.
That's 1.5mil gold each. So you're looking at 6mil gold just for 4 champions to r3.
If you're a relatively sweaty tryhard, you're taking them to r4. That's 3.1mil each so 12mil.
When people say "there's no gold shortage", it's because they ignore just how crazy expensive it is to rank champs. Assuming you only rank for BGs, exclude AW (attack and defense) and content, 6mil gold a month means you've wiped out all the gold from EQ and SQ.
Then add, getting the odd 7* and leveling them up... The idea that gold is a complete non-issue is hard to comprehend when you have the whaliest of whales selling ISO for gold. Yeah maybe if your account is similar or equal to mine (2 7r2 and 45 6r4+) you can hold off on ranking, but there are lots of Paragon accounts that aren't in the same position.
You're proving my point though. You chose the route of competitive rank ups which in turn give you more highly ranked champs. However, it comes at the cost of another resource: gold
No you don't get the point. I'm saying it doesn't need to be that way. Rank up materials, actually getting champs, and ISO are already enough hoops to jump through. If you want to keep that additional hoop, fine; that's just your opinion just like mine is that gold flow is too limited.
What I’m confused about is that those of us who don’t have a gold problem are being told our opinion doesn’t matter as we already have established accounts
The problem mostly comes with some people in this thread being outright dismissive, and that goes for both sides, but it's a lot harder to understand how 6 month active accounts need to operate as a 6 year active account.
And as for more Gold being available now than ever, that's true, but that goes for every resource in the game as well as how much players need to use them. That's just a fact of the economy, the hard part is balancing it all out.
As for the psychological aspect, finally putting to use my one year of AP Psych, I believe that's what schedules of reinforcements are for. "Reinforcement" being the key word. Schedules of reinforcements are put in place to keep players engaged. I believe mcoc (mostly) follows variable ratio intervals, which means they reinforce players after an unpredictable amount of time. That way, players keep playing without being fully aware of when the amount of work invested will pay off any more or less than any other time. If players knew exactly when the best time to grind was, players would only engage with the game during those windows of time. This isn't always the case for spenders though, since we all know to just wait for the holidays.
But schedules of reinforcement require actual reinforcement. The issue I believe a lot of players like me are experiencing is a lack of reinforcement with Gold. I've been short on Gold for my entire mcoc history, most especially the last 4 months that I've been actively playing. If the Gold bottleneck isn't letting up, players aren't being reinforced to believe their experience will change all that much. That makes every month equally predictable. Awesome new quest? Bet I won't be able to use any of the rewards. New Featured just dropped? Can't wait to leave Silk at rank 1 level 1 for the next few weeks. Should I grind BGs for the shards and catalysts, entirely believing I won't be able to use them yet again? Probably not. The less players are reinforced, the less players can really feel engaged.
You can’t expect to build a roster to compete with a 6. Year old account in 6months.
That depends on your definition of "compete"
I think I can compete with a deck of a few rank 5's and 7*s, plus loaded with rank 4's by just having a few rank 4's and a handful of rank 3's in my deck. Players can absolutely expect to compete, that's why the game bottlenecks T6CC from higher level accounts. They want to allow new players to compete, and they can do that without allowing new players to have everything a 6 year account has.
As I said previously, I don't think players targeting T6CC have any sort of unintentional gold shortage. That includes new accounts that try to rush their way to the second highest rank currently available. I don't think players taking champions to rank 2 in order to address the importance of roster diversity should have the same bottleneck, especially not when it completely shuts down all reasoning to complete content.
We are talking about competing in the sense of roster size and depth. That is the whole point of this thread That is what gold enables.
From what you have said your account is very competitive. Now you have not stated exactly how old your account is or how many high ranked champs you have, but what you have done is state the fact you only have 3 r3s in your battlegrounds deck. Which by extension alludes to the fact you have ATLEAST 27 champs at r4 or higher. Which therefore shows you have had access to a vast amount of gold. You have just also used said vast amount of gold. Which to me shows not a problem with gold available but a problem with your expectations as to what you should be able to rank and how quickly you should be able to rank. You are ranking at an intended rate. If you want to rank faster than the ideal economic balance as set by kabam, you need to hardcore grind arena and/or spend money. At the point of your roster The accounts you are trying to catch do that. And you can only catch someone if you do more than they do. So you have a big big task. But giving you more gold to be able to catch these players does nothing, because they will only need to be also given more and by doing so you will not gain any more ground then you already are
(Sorry if similar to another post i made, my comment got sent to the depths of random kabam approval needed)
I read one page of this and can already say that I’m thoroughly pissed at @bhuv9191 attitude towards @Maat1985
Bhuv- grow up, stop acting like an idiot, you made a post calling out kabam and you got out in your place. That’s what the forums do sometimes.
Maat is simply trying to show you that you need to pick and choose where you spend time in the game and that you will ALWAYS have a limited resource. What is so hard to understand about that?
There’s no reason you should be upset at maat for contradicting you, considering you posted this on an open FORUM. That means people can disagree with you. All this is showing is your immaturity.
@Kabam Miike im surprised this thread is still open. It has dissolved into chaos.
I understand that Bottlenecks will always exist. What I'm worried about is that Kabam is putting such a priority on roster progression, while creating a massive imbalance between resources that only affects certain players, which I believe is unintentional.
If someone has lots of catalysts but no gold to use them, that's a massive imbalance in resources. But if a player has tons of gold, that's just fine because they don't have the same massive imbalance between resources anymore and obviously no shortage
I'm not referring to player's individual accounts when I mention the imbalance, I'm referring to the volume of resources available. There are lots and lots of catalysts, shards and ISO up for grabs every month and not very much Gold comparatively.
For anyone to have a lot of gold, that gold must actually exist in the game to be acquired in the first place.
Yes, and my argument is that the majority of players not suffering from a gold shortage are players who earned the majority of their gold before the recent economy became imbalanced, as well as being players who don't have as much of a need to spend Gold as newer players. Players who are sitting on 100 million gold likely didn't earn all of that in the past 4 months.
I definitely don't believe Gold is all behind a paywall. I'm a casual spender myself.
Gold numbers do matter, I've seen a few of helpful breakdowns in this thread talking about exact numbers. I haven't seen anyone break down how much Gold progressing players should have access to (compared to what they currently do have access to). Likely because it isn't that simple.
I'm not sure where exactly you're getting your data on the number of players claiming to have a Gold problem. If it's the forums, I wouldn't take that as an accurate representation. As I've said, I'm speaking strictly for progressing players. Most Forum members are not people I would consider progressing, though I know I haven't defined exactly what I mean by that. Just to throw a definition out there, anyone prioritizing rank 4's or above aren't players I would consider progressing. I believe all content in mcoc can currently be handled simply with rank 3's, so that's where I think the line is drawn.
Just throwing an idea out there, but could the problem be not that gold is lacking but that other materials became too inflated? 6* shards have become very common with players not yet UC having them now. BG store increased the ease of getting catalysts that another R3 is nothing anymore for paragons.
And then we have game modes that require meta rankups to not fall behind. The reasonable move would have been to scale availability of gold with materials.
But this is also an RNG resource managing game, which by definition means you can't have everything. You have to choose between gold/catalysts/shards/etc. Either you rank up the best champs for each individual meta which or you rank more casually and sparingly (relatively speaking). The former scenario gives you beta champ acquisition and rank up materials, but the latter gives more gold. The choice is yours, but to accept the rewards of one means you have to accept the cost of it as well.
Let's say you're a relatively mid-level player that barely scrapes into GC to maximize your rankups and progress. Every season, there are 2 metas. Lets say you want to take 2 champs up to r3 each meta.
That's 1.5mil gold each. So you're looking at 6mil gold just for 4 champions to r3.
If you're a relatively sweaty tryhard, you're taking them to r4. That's 3.1mil each so 12mil.
When people say "there's no gold shortage", it's because they ignore just how crazy expensive it is to rank champs. Assuming you only rank for BGs, exclude AW (attack and defense) and content, 6mil gold a month means you've wiped out all the gold from EQ and SQ.
Then add, getting the odd 7* and leveling them up... The idea that gold is a complete non-issue is hard to comprehend when you have the whaliest of whales selling ISO for gold. Yeah maybe if your account is similar or equal to mine (2 7r2 and 45 6r4+) you can hold off on ranking, but there are lots of Paragon accounts that aren't in the same position.
This is really the crux of it. When people say there's a gold shortage, the question is always "compared to what?" How much gold is a reasonable amount of gold supposed to be, such that the actual amount of gold being earned is less than that. So let's use this as a quantifiable reference point and see how much gold this is, and whether it actually exists in the game in an accessible form.
In this example a "reasonable" amount of gold is something on the order of taking one 6* champion from rank 2/35 to rank 3/45 or rank 4/55 per week (four per month approximately). We will assume just for the sake of discussion that this is a reasonable player expectation. This would cost between 1.3 and 1.7 million gold for rank 2 to rank 3 (it depends on whether you use matching class ISO or not) and between 3.0 and 3.7 million gold for rank 2 to rank 4, per champion. For four champions, 5.2 to 6.8 million to R3 and 12 to 14.8 million for R4.
Let's start with four R3s. The first most obvious "source" for gold is to recognize that ISO class management significantly decreases the amount of gold required, from 6.8 million down to 5.2 million. Using the correct class ISO is essentially worth 1.6 million gold in this situation. The remaining 5.2 million gold is achievable with the gold in monthly events. TB+Cav EQ is 4.56 million. TB+Cav+UC is 4.8 million. Side quest gold easily bridges the gap with plenty to spare (by how much is variable because side quest gold is not always identically available). Before we count any other sources of gold, this is achievable with no extraordinary activity. So this is not a problem.
Let's move on to attempting four R2->R4 rank ups per month, about one per week. Honestly, this is a pretty high rank up rate to try to sustain, but I don't think it is an impossibly high rate so let's just see where the numbers fall. To pull this off you'd need between 12 and 14.8 million gold. Again, using class correct ISO starts off lopping 2.8 million gold off the total. We need to find 12 million gold. That's not going to be easy, but let's see where it might be.
You could explore every difficulty tier in monthly EQ but there's diminishing returns there. If we stop at Conqueror, we end up with a total of 4.92 million gold.
Next, we start spending Glory. Someone overflowing with enough catalysts to pull off four R4 rank ups per month has spare glory. We buy 15 UC gold crystals per week at 780 glory per batch, which would cost about 3120 glory a month, which is less than I earn in a week doing medium tier AQ. This nets 60 UC gold crystals which would average about 1.422 million gold per month**. That gets us to about 6.342 million gold per month.
Next, we do arena milestones, but specifically only the ones that award gold. That's milestone 6 for Trials and milestone 3 for the featured and basic. This is 119750 gold every cycle, call it eight cycles per month, 958,000 gold per month. We're up to 7.3 million gold.
We want to complete as many 7hr and 22hr events as possible, but we can't assume even a very high activity player will be able to do them all. Let's assume ten 22hr events per month and 30 7hr solo events per month is reasonable to complete for a high activity player (I honestly don't expect a low activity player to sustain this level of rank ups, and if they feel they deserve to, they are on their own). That would add up to a total of 21500 gold and 4 UC gold crystals per 7hr and 50000 gold, 6 regular gold crystals and 5 UC gold crystals per 22hr. This adds up to 1,145,000 gold and an additional 4,029,000 gold from UC gold crystals and about 300k from the regular crystals, for a total of 5,474,000 gold from gold and gold crystals from solo events. That takes us to 12,774,000.
And we're there. And I haven't counted side quest gold yet, in part because that's variable so I was saving it for the end. This requires a lot of activity to be sure. But this is not superhuman levels of activity. It might be more than a player might want to do, but they are asking for the resources to do a very large amount of rank ups. Four R2 to R4 rankups per month is quite a lot. And the gold is there to do it in the game, if a player chose to actually go after it.
Here's a double check of sorts on these numbers. I'll bet the one that most people are raising an eyebrow on is the gold from solo events. That seems pretty big. It was to me when I did the calculations a while back. But ever since I did those calculations I started tracking both my gold *and* my gold crystals. I spend gold, so my gold goes up and down. But I do not open gold crystals, so they just accumulate. On April 11 of this year I had 3586 UC gold crystals. Yesterday when I last recorded them I had 5010. That's 1424 UC gold crystals earned in the last 140 days. Which means I'm averaging about ten per day. I am an above average activity player, but I don't really focus on doing all the solo events. That's *more* than the estimate I made above, which amounted to 170 UC gold crystals per month. I'm apparently earning about 300 per month, which is about 7 million gold per month, and all of it is just locked up in gold crystals I might never open.
So the gold is there for this level of rank up activity, and none of this requires extraordinary effort. It does require a high level of activity, and whether a low activity player can still reasonably expect to be able to rank up at this rate is a separate question. Gold is certainly not a "non-issue" but I don't think anyone is credibly claiming this. But the gold is there, if gameplay and resources are managed efficiently enough.
I recently tested UC gold drops and got the statistical average of 23725 gold per crystal. This is lower than some values I've used in the past, so I'm going with this smaller value here to be conservative.
I read one page of this and can already say that I’m thoroughly pissed at @bhuv9191 attitude towards @Maat1985
Bhuv- grow up, stop acting like an idiot, you made a post calling out kabam and you got out in your place. That’s what the forums do sometimes.
Maat is simply trying to show you that you need to pick and choose where you spend time in the game and that you will ALWAYS have a limited resource. What is so hard to understand about that?
There’s no reason you should be upset at maat for contradicting you, considering you posted this on an open FORUM. That means people can disagree with you. All this is showing is your immaturity.
@Kabam Miike im surprised this thread is still open. It has dissolved into chaos.
Some people find it hard to have a discussion where opposing views exist without devolving into terrible attitude.
Life is never going to be an echo chamber of only one viewpoint.
I understand that Bottlenecks will always exist. What I'm worried about is that Kabam is putting such a priority on roster progression, while creating a massive imbalance between resources that only affects certain players, which I believe is unintentional.
If someone has lots of catalysts but no gold to use them, that's a massive imbalance in resources. But if a player has tons of gold, that's just fine because they don't have the same massive imbalance between resources anymore and obviously no shortage
I'm not referring to player's individual accounts when I mention the imbalance, I'm referring to the volume of resources available. There are lots and lots of catalysts, shards and ISO up for grabs every month and not very much Gold comparatively.
For anyone to have a lot of gold, that gold must actually exist in the game to be acquired in the first place.
Yes, and my argument is that the majority of players not suffering from a gold shortage are players who earned the majority of their gold before the recent economy became imbalanced, as well as being players who don't have as much of a need to spend Gold as newer players. Players who are sitting on 100 million gold likely didn't earn all of that in the past 4 months.
I definitely don't believe Gold is all behind a paywall. I'm a casual spender myself.
Gold numbers do matter, I've seen a few of helpful breakdowns in this thread talking about exact numbers. I haven't seen anyone break down how much Gold progressing players should have access to (compared to what they currently do have access to). Likely because it isn't that simple.
I'm not sure where exactly you're getting your data on the number of players claiming to have a Gold problem. If it's the forums, I wouldn't take that as an accurate representation. As I've said, I'm speaking strictly for progressing players. Most Forum members are not people I would consider progressing, though I know I haven't defined exactly what I mean by that. Just to throw a definition out there, anyone prioritizing rank 4's or above aren't players I would consider progressing. I believe all content in mcoc can currently be handled simply with rank 3's, so that's where I think the line is drawn.
Just throwing an idea out there, but could the problem be not that gold is lacking but that other materials became too inflated? 6* shards have become very common with players not yet UC having them now. BG store increased the ease of getting catalysts that another R3 is nothing anymore for paragons.
And then we have game modes that require meta rankups to not fall behind. The reasonable move would have been to scale availability of gold with materials.
But this is also an RNG resource managing game, which by definition means you can't have everything. You have to choose between gold/catalysts/shards/etc. Either you rank up the best champs for each individual meta which or you rank more casually and sparingly (relatively speaking). The former scenario gives you beta champ acquisition and rank up materials, but the latter gives more gold. The choice is yours, but to accept the rewards of one means you have to accept the cost of it as well.
Let's say you're a relatively mid-level player that barely scrapes into GC to maximize your rankups and progress. Every season, there are 2 metas. Lets say you want to take 2 champs up to r3 each meta.
That's 1.5mil gold each. So you're looking at 6mil gold just for 4 champions to r3.
If you're a relatively sweaty tryhard, you're taking them to r4. That's 3.1mil each so 12mil.
When people say "there's no gold shortage", it's because they ignore just how crazy expensive it is to rank champs. Assuming you only rank for BGs, exclude AW (attack and defense) and content, 6mil gold a month means you've wiped out all the gold from EQ and SQ.
Then add, getting the odd 7* and leveling them up... The idea that gold is a complete non-issue is hard to comprehend when you have the whaliest of whales selling ISO for gold. Yeah maybe if your account is similar or equal to mine (2 7r2 and 45 6r4+) you can hold off on ranking, but there are lots of Paragon accounts that aren't in the same position.
This is really the crux of it. When people say there's a gold shortage, the question is always "compared to what?" How much gold is a reasonable amount of gold supposed to be, such that the actual amount of gold being earned is less than that. So let's use this as a quantifiable reference point and see how much gold this is, and whether it actually exists in the game in an accessible form.
In this example a "reasonable" amount of gold is something on the order of taking one 6* champion from rank 2/35 to rank 3/45 or rank 4/55 per week (four per month approximately). We will assume just for the sake of discussion that this is a reasonable player expectation. This would cost between 1.3 and 1.7 million gold for rank 2 to rank 3 (it depends on whether you use matching class ISO or not) and between 3.0 and 3.7 million gold for rank 2 to rank 4, per champion. For four champions, 5.2 to 6.8 million to R3 and 12 to 14.8 million for R4.
Let's start with four R3s. The first most obvious "source" for gold is to recognize that ISO class management significantly decreases the amount of gold required, from 6.8 million down to 5.2 million. Using the correct class ISO is essentially worth 1.6 million gold in this situation. The remaining 5.2 million gold is achievable with the gold in monthly events. TB+Cav EQ is 4.56 million. TB+Cav+UC is 4.8 million. Side quest gold easily bridges the gap with plenty to spare (by how much is variable because side quest gold is not always identically available). Before we count any other sources of gold, this is achievable with no extraordinary activity. So this is not a problem.
Let's move on to attempting four R2->R4 rank ups per month, about one per week. Honestly, this is a pretty high rank up rate to try to sustain, but I don't think it is an impossibly high rate so let's just see where the numbers fall. To pull this off you'd need between 12 and 14.8 million gold. Again, using class correct ISO starts off lopping 2.8 million gold off the total. We need to find 12 million gold. That's not going to be easy, but let's see where it might be.
You could explore every difficulty tier in monthly EQ but there's diminishing returns there. If we stop at Conqueror, we end up with a total of 4.92 million gold.
Next, we start spending Glory. Someone overflowing with enough catalysts to pull off four R4 rank ups per month has spare glory. We buy 15 UC gold crystals per week at 780 glory per batch, which would cost about 3120 glory a month, which is less than I earn in a week doing medium tier AQ. This nets 60 UC gold crystals which would average about 1.422 million gold per month**. That gets us to about 6.342 million gold per month.
Next, we do arena milestones, but specifically only the ones that award gold. That's milestone 6 for Trials and milestone 3 for the featured and basic. This is 119750 gold every cycle, call it eight cycles per month, 958,000 gold per month. We're up to 7.3 million gold.
We want to complete as many 7hr and 22hr events as possible, but we can't assume even a very high activity player will be able to do them all. Let's assume ten 22hr events per month and 30 7hr solo events per month is reasonable to complete for a high activity player (I honestly don't expect a low activity player to sustain this level of rank ups, and if they feel they deserve to, they are on their own). That would add up to a total of 21500 gold and 4 UC gold crystals per 7hr and 50000 gold, 6 regular gold crystals and 5 UC gold crystals per 22hr. This adds up to 1,145,000 gold and an additional 4,029,000 gold from UC gold crystals and about 300k from the regular crystals, for a total of 5,474,000 gold from gold and gold crystals from solo events. That takes us to 12,774,000.
And we're there. And I haven't counted side quest gold yet, in part because that's variable so I was saving it for the end. This requires a lot of activity to be sure. But this is not superhuman levels of activity. It might be more than a player might want to do, but they are asking for the resources to do a very large amount of rank ups. Four R2 to R4 rankups per month is quite a lot. And the gold is there to do it in the game, if a player chose to actually go after it.
Here's a double check of sorts on these numbers. I'll bet the one that most people are raising an eyebrow on is the gold from solo events. That seems pretty big. It was to me when I did the calculations a while back. But ever since I did those calculations I started tracking both my gold *and* my gold crystals. I spend gold, so my gold goes up and down. But I do not open gold crystals, so they just accumulate. On April 11 of this year I had 3586 UC gold crystals. Yesterday when I last recorded them I had 5010. That's 1424 UC gold crystals earned in the last 140 days. Which means I'm averaging about ten per day. I am an above average activity player, but I don't really focus on doing all the solo events. That's *more* than the estimate I made above, which amounted to 170 UC gold crystals per month. I'm apparently earning about 300 per month, which is about 7 million gold per month, and all of it is just locked up in gold crystals I might never open.
So the gold is there for this level of rank up activity, and none of this requires extraordinary effort. It does require a high level of activity, and whether a low activity player can still reasonably expect to be able to rank up at this rate is a separate question. Gold is certainly not a "non-issue" but I don't think anyone is credibly claiming this. But the gold is there, if gameplay and resources are managed efficiently enough.
I recently tested UC gold drops and got the statistical average of 23725 gold per crystal. This is lower than some values I've used in the past, so I'm going with this smaller value here to be conservative.
@DNA3000 thank you so much for doing the maths on this. You always put together great information for us. I have screenshotted this post and will reference it when people say they need more gold. Four rankups to r4 each month is a pretty good rate of rank ups. Anyone that cannot afford to do this, then need to accept that they either need to play more or will be unable to do so. And anyone expecting they should be able to do more needs to either seriously grind harder and or spend, or simply adjust their expectations down to a reasonable level
I understand that Bottlenecks will always exist. What I'm worried about is that Kabam is putting such a priority on roster progression, while creating a massive imbalance between resources that only affects certain players, which I believe is unintentional.
If someone has lots of catalysts but no gold to use them, that's a massive imbalance in resources. But if a player has tons of gold, that's just fine because they don't have the same massive imbalance between resources anymore and obviously no shortage
I'm not referring to player's individual accounts when I mention the imbalance, I'm referring to the volume of resources available. There are lots and lots of catalysts, shards and ISO up for grabs every month and not very much Gold comparatively.
For anyone to have a lot of gold, that gold must actually exist in the game to be acquired in the first place.
Yes, and my argument is that the majority of players not suffering from a gold shortage are players who earned the majority of their gold before the recent economy became imbalanced, as well as being players who don't have as much of a need to spend Gold as newer players. Players who are sitting on 100 million gold likely didn't earn all of that in the past 4 months.
I definitely don't believe Gold is all behind a paywall. I'm a casual spender myself.
Gold numbers do matter, I've seen a few of helpful breakdowns in this thread talking about exact numbers. I haven't seen anyone break down how much Gold progressing players should have access to (compared to what they currently do have access to). Likely because it isn't that simple.
I'm not sure where exactly you're getting your data on the number of players claiming to have a Gold problem. If it's the forums, I wouldn't take that as an accurate representation. As I've said, I'm speaking strictly for progressing players. Most Forum members are not people I would consider progressing, though I know I haven't defined exactly what I mean by that. Just to throw a definition out there, anyone prioritizing rank 4's or above aren't players I would consider progressing. I believe all content in mcoc can currently be handled simply with rank 3's, so that's where I think the line is drawn.
Just throwing an idea out there, but could the problem be not that gold is lacking but that other materials became too inflated? 6* shards have become very common with players not yet UC having them now. BG store increased the ease of getting catalysts that another R3 is nothing anymore for paragons.
And then we have game modes that require meta rankups to not fall behind. The reasonable move would have been to scale availability of gold with materials.
This isn't true at all. What do you consider falling behind? First of all, it doesn't matter what the meta is, the vast majority of players have the same 20 champs every season. Sure the other 10 fluctuate a bit. But implying you can get to celestial one season and then the next you get get out of victory track because of a gold shortage is just not true.
Surprisingly, I disagree with this. This is really only an issue if you're trying to rank up Champs nonstop (which generally isn't possible unless you have a huge stash of ISO and Catalysts anyway). If you participate in AQ and are at least uncollected, you can buy up to 50 UC Gold Crystals a week for 4,700 Glory. Couple that with the UC Crystals you get from daily events, arena, etc, and you'll have a bunch in no time.
I saved for a few weeks, and today was able to R2/R3 six Champs (this includes leveling them up), and spent about 11-12 million gold (I had about 6.5-7 million on hand and opened 210 UC Gold Crystals.)
Comments
Just wow. It just mean you are out of touch with lots of players.
I definitely don't believe Gold is all behind a paywall. I'm a casual spender myself.
Gold numbers do matter, I've seen a few of helpful breakdowns in this thread talking about exact numbers. I haven't seen anyone break down how much Gold progressing players should have access to (compared to what they currently do have access to). Likely because it isn't that simple.
I'm not sure where exactly you're getting your data on the number of players claiming to have a Gold problem. If it's the forums, I wouldn't take that as an accurate representation. As I've said, I'm speaking strictly for progressing players. Most Forum members are not people I would consider progressing, though I know I haven't defined exactly what I mean by that. Just to throw a definition out there, anyone prioritizing rank 4's or above aren't players I would consider progressing. I believe all content in mcoc can currently be handled simply with rank 3's, so that's where I think the line is drawn.
They struggle, but they don't just stop. Every normal player takes at least ten times longer to get to the same place if not more, and have had far more opportunities to earn gold relative to the champions and catalysts they earn, because progression content is tilted towards champion and catalyst acquisition.
What tends to differ between these challenge accounts and "normal" accounts is that challenge accounts must make due with whatever they have. They are usually driven by much more experienced players that can make due with less, so they can afford to rank affordable options to keep within budget and still keep up high progress speed. Normal accounts made today have options veterans did not have when they first started, including faster acquisition of higher rarity champions. These are much more expensive to rank, relative to earning power. It is a choice to shift attention to these champions, and that choice comes with the issue of needing more gold (among other things) which take time to acquire. That time drops as the player progresses and their earning power increases, but it is still pretty high. But again, this is a choice: the player can choose to leapfrog progression and aim for higher rarities, but this comes at the expense of slowing down roster progress initially.
This is most definitely deliberate, and necessarily so. At least until the low level game gets refactored again, which it might in another couple of progression tiers.
Every season, there are 2 metas. Lets say you want to take 2 champs up to r3 each meta.
That's 1.5mil gold each. So you're looking at 6mil gold just for 4 champions to r3.
If you're a relatively sweaty tryhard, you're taking them to r4. That's 3.1mil each so 12mil.
When people say "there's no gold shortage", it's because they ignore just how crazy expensive it is to rank champs. Assuming you only rank for BGs, exclude AW (attack and defense) and content, 6mil gold a month means you've wiped out all the gold from EQ and SQ.
Then add, getting the odd 7* and leveling them up... The idea that gold is a complete non-issue is hard to comprehend when you have the whaliest of whales selling ISO for gold. Yeah maybe if your account is similar or equal to mine (2 7r2 and 45 6r4+) you can hold off on ranking, but there are lots of Paragon accounts that aren't in the same position.
Unfortunately, your post is going to fall on Kabam's deaf ears 😂
That is the whole point of this thread
That is what gold enables.
From what you have said your account is very competitive.
Now you have not stated exactly how old your account is or how many high ranked champs you have, but what you have done is state the fact you only have 3 r3s in your battlegrounds deck.
Which by extension alludes to the fact you have ATLEAST 27 champs at r4 or higher.
Which therefore shows you have had access to a vast amount of gold.
You have just also used said vast amount of gold.
Which to me shows not a problem with gold available but a problem with your expectations as to what you should be able to rank and how quickly you should be able to rank.
You are ranking at an intended rate.
If you want to rank faster than the ideal economic balance as set by kabam, you need to hardcore grind arena and/or spend money.
At the point of your roster The accounts you are trying to catch do that.
And you can only catch someone if you do more than they do.
So you have a big big task.
But giving you more gold to be able to catch these players does nothing, because they will only need to be also given more and by doing so you will not gain any more ground then you already are
(Sorry if similar to another post i made, my comment got sent to the depths of random kabam approval needed)
A WILD GOLDEN PIGGYBANK APPEARS
Bhuv- grow up, stop acting like an idiot, you made a post calling out kabam and you got out in your place. That’s what the forums do sometimes.
Maat is simply trying to show you that you need to pick and choose where you spend time in the game and that you will ALWAYS have a limited resource. What is so hard to understand about that?
There’s no reason you should be upset at maat for contradicting you, considering you posted this on an open FORUM. That means people can disagree with you. All this is showing is your immaturity.
@Kabam Miike im surprised this thread is still open. It has dissolved into chaos.
In this example a "reasonable" amount of gold is something on the order of taking one 6* champion from rank 2/35 to rank 3/45 or rank 4/55 per week (four per month approximately). We will assume just for the sake of discussion that this is a reasonable player expectation. This would cost between 1.3 and 1.7 million gold for rank 2 to rank 3 (it depends on whether you use matching class ISO or not) and between 3.0 and 3.7 million gold for rank 2 to rank 4, per champion. For four champions, 5.2 to 6.8 million to R3 and 12 to 14.8 million for R4.
Let's start with four R3s. The first most obvious "source" for gold is to recognize that ISO class management significantly decreases the amount of gold required, from 6.8 million down to 5.2 million. Using the correct class ISO is essentially worth 1.6 million gold in this situation. The remaining 5.2 million gold is achievable with the gold in monthly events. TB+Cav EQ is 4.56 million. TB+Cav+UC is 4.8 million. Side quest gold easily bridges the gap with plenty to spare (by how much is variable because side quest gold is not always identically available). Before we count any other sources of gold, this is achievable with no extraordinary activity. So this is not a problem.
Let's move on to attempting four R2->R4 rank ups per month, about one per week. Honestly, this is a pretty high rank up rate to try to sustain, but I don't think it is an impossibly high rate so let's just see where the numbers fall. To pull this off you'd need between 12 and 14.8 million gold. Again, using class correct ISO starts off lopping 2.8 million gold off the total. We need to find 12 million gold. That's not going to be easy, but let's see where it might be.
You could explore every difficulty tier in monthly EQ but there's diminishing returns there. If we stop at Conqueror, we end up with a total of 4.92 million gold.
Next, we start spending Glory. Someone overflowing with enough catalysts to pull off four R4 rank ups per month has spare glory. We buy 15 UC gold crystals per week at 780 glory per batch, which would cost about 3120 glory a month, which is less than I earn in a week doing medium tier AQ. This nets 60 UC gold crystals which would average about 1.422 million gold per month**. That gets us to about 6.342 million gold per month.
Next, we do arena milestones, but specifically only the ones that award gold. That's milestone 6 for Trials and milestone 3 for the featured and basic. This is 119750 gold every cycle, call it eight cycles per month, 958,000 gold per month. We're up to 7.3 million gold.
We want to complete as many 7hr and 22hr events as possible, but we can't assume even a very high activity player will be able to do them all. Let's assume ten 22hr events per month and 30 7hr solo events per month is reasonable to complete for a high activity player (I honestly don't expect a low activity player to sustain this level of rank ups, and if they feel they deserve to, they are on their own). That would add up to a total of 21500 gold and 4 UC gold crystals per 7hr and 50000 gold, 6 regular gold crystals and 5 UC gold crystals per 22hr. This adds up to 1,145,000 gold and an additional 4,029,000 gold from UC gold crystals and about 300k from the regular crystals, for a total of 5,474,000 gold from gold and gold crystals from solo events. That takes us to 12,774,000.
And we're there. And I haven't counted side quest gold yet, in part because that's variable so I was saving it for the end. This requires a lot of activity to be sure. But this is not superhuman levels of activity. It might be more than a player might want to do, but they are asking for the resources to do a very large amount of rank ups. Four R2 to R4 rankups per month is quite a lot. And the gold is there to do it in the game, if a player chose to actually go after it.
Here's a double check of sorts on these numbers. I'll bet the one that most people are raising an eyebrow on is the gold from solo events. That seems pretty big. It was to me when I did the calculations a while back. But ever since I did those calculations I started tracking both my gold *and* my gold crystals. I spend gold, so my gold goes up and down. But I do not open gold crystals, so they just accumulate. On April 11 of this year I had 3586 UC gold crystals. Yesterday when I last recorded them I had 5010. That's 1424 UC gold crystals earned in the last 140 days. Which means I'm averaging about ten per day. I am an above average activity player, but I don't really focus on doing all the solo events. That's *more* than the estimate I made above, which amounted to 170 UC gold crystals per month. I'm apparently earning about 300 per month, which is about 7 million gold per month, and all of it is just locked up in gold crystals I might never open.
So the gold is there for this level of rank up activity, and none of this requires extraordinary effort. It does require a high level of activity, and whether a low activity player can still reasonably expect to be able to rank up at this rate is a separate question. Gold is certainly not a "non-issue" but I don't think anyone is credibly claiming this. But the gold is there, if gameplay and resources are managed efficiently enough.
I recently tested UC gold drops and got the statistical average of 23725 gold per crystal. This is lower than some values I've used in the past, so I'm going with this smaller value here to be conservative.
Life is never going to be an echo chamber of only one viewpoint.
You always put together great information for us.
I have screenshotted this post and will reference it when people say they need more gold.
Four rankups to r4 each month is a pretty good rate of rank ups.
Anyone that cannot afford to do this, then need to accept that they either need to play more or will be unable to do so.
And anyone expecting they should be able to do more needs to either seriously grind harder and or spend, or simply adjust their expectations down to a reasonable level
I saved for a few weeks, and today was able to R2/R3 six Champs (this includes leveling them up), and spent about 11-12 million gold (I had about 6.5-7 million on hand and opened 210 UC Gold Crystals.)
It’s dirt knowledge.
I don’t care for myself. I’m good.
But it is a thing that gold is garbage for a lot of players.
I actually think Kabaam knows it and will fix it.
And some love data
Doesn’t change the gold issue.
all that can change is your perception of the issue.