No, seeding alone is not enough with the current setup.
Wow! I didn't know you had a time machine and could tell how next BGs season will play!
I have a brain. Quite an intelligent one, that has years of experience with this game. I can tell how systems are going to play out, with pretty close certainty.
None of the statements made in this comment are provable fact
However, if you would like to debate my actual points about the current system, I'm all for it
I can't prove that you have a brain the same way I can't prove that you're even a human being. You could be a squirrel with access to a computer or the first ever mcoc Arena bot gone self aware. I'm also all for debating your actual points about the current system, my main point being: you cannot predict how Seeding will turn out next season or even further down the line. I don't like this BGs season either, but it will change next season and we can't be totally sure of how that experience is going to be. If it sucks, at least we'll know then exactly why.
I can, actually. With the previous changes within the last 2 Seasons and seeding, things would have balanced out over time. The addition of one or two more Tiers would have been a reasonable increase, but with the changes in the Win/Loss ratio, and the additional Tiers, seeding isn't going to benefit anyone but the people who have no issues making it into the GC. The rest will be doing the 1-2-3 shuffle, with the occasional Player who makes it in. You can only put the majority of Players through that so long before they stop bothering completely. Discourage them enough, and they won't even care about the Rewards. This argument is really a distraction because no one even claimed anything with 100% certainty. I know with confidence how this is going to end, but if you're just arguing sure things, that's moot.
No, seeding alone is not enough with the current setup.
Wow! I didn't know you had a time machine and could tell how next BGs season will play!
I have a brain. Quite an intelligent one, that has years of experience with this game. I can tell how systems are going to play out, with pretty close certainty.
Well forgive me if I'm skeptical of the claims that a reduction of grind won't help from a person who holds the unpopular (at least from what I can tell) opinion that unbiased matchmaking within tiers in a competitive format is bad, but I don't think their concerns align with the playerbase as a whole.
Of the players who *are* strong enough to reach GC, most of the complaints I've heard are that the grind is too much. Maybe eliminating 12/19 tiers will help the job along?
Obviously that doesn't much help the people whose roster/player strength is the limiting factor rather than their time/resources, but they do have the option of improving both their accounts and their play.
There are a few complaints here that comes off as selfish and what you and others are saying is right. Big accounts have had selfish complaints in last seasons as well. But there are other points being made for the mode as a whole. One side is just choosing to ignore that discussion and zero in the small progressing accounts. The same thing small progressing account are expressing now just may become the same expression for the big accounts with the current system in place.
If that's the case so be it. How many Paragons have you seen in the forums saying "Omg im a Paragon with 16k Prestiege, ehy do I get paired with 18k-19k whales and i can't get past Arcane!" As compared as lower accounts. Its not a perfect competition as you mentioned; but the bar to compete has to be raised higher not lower. Its the 10th season and this has been the 1st competitive change as opposed of 9 seasons making sure everybody gets something.
No, seeding alone is not enough with the current setup.
Wow! I didn't know you had a time machine and could tell how next BGs season will play!
I have a brain. Quite an intelligent one, that has years of experience with this game. I can tell how systems are going to play out, with pretty close certainty.
I have no doubt about your intelligence and your extensive knowledge in various areas of life. However, when you mentioned your years of experience in Marvel Contest of Champions, I found it a bit confusing.
I've been here for almost 8 years. Don't mistake where I am in the game with what I understand.
There are two fundamental problems you have (some combination of the two): 1. Not skilled enough at the game, and or 2. Your roster is not strong enough to get to GC.
Those two reason are the ones why you're in VT. To say it is a bad system because you can't win is not quite right. Is it more difficult? Yes, but maybe wait till next season to complain? Everyone in GC now will not be able to play people in Bronze for the most part. By the time everyone departs to GC, VT should be much easier to climb out of.
I agree with @Ironman3000 I'm not a celestial player. Can't be upset that I cannot get to C6 and above. I don't see how it's any different from there being GC players and VT players.
Who said I'm speaking for myself? I'm a big boy. I can accept my own Losses. I'm talking about what's best for the overall system. All the personal digs at my progress aren't going to change the fact that this is a real problem. We get it. Some people don't care. Others do. So let them talk instead of trying to squash every concern they have. Regardless, it's going to show on Kabam's side anyway, so silencing people isn't going to prevent any changes that may need to be made.
No, seeding alone is not enough with the current setup.
Wow! I didn't know you had a time machine and could tell how next BGs season will play!
I have a brain. Quite an intelligent one, that has years of experience with this game. I can tell how systems are going to play out, with pretty close certainty.
Well forgive me if I'm skeptical of the claims that a reduction of grind won't help from a person who holds the unpopular (at least from what I can tell) opinion that unbiased matchmaking within tiers in a competitive format is bad, but I don't think their concerns align with the playerbase as a whole.
Of the players who *are* strong enough to reach GC, most of the complaints I've heard are that the grind is too much. Maybe eliminating 12/19 tiers will help the job along?
Obviously that doesn't much help the people whose roster/player strength is the limiting factor rather than their time/resources, but they do have the option of improving both their accounts and their play.
There are a few complaints here that comes off as selfish and what you and others are saying is right. Big accounts have had selfish complaints in last seasons as well. But there are other points being made for the mode as a whole. One side is just choosing to ignore that discussion and zero in the small progressing accounts. The same thing small progressing account are expressing now just may become the same expression for the big accounts with the current system in place.
I agree there are problems for the smaller accounts, but matchmaking isn't one of them. IMO everyone should have the same BGS shop, with maybe lower progression titles getting less tokens from objectives. The fact that a bigger account has an easier time climbing and can climb higher overall should be their reward, and a conqueror who can climb as high as a paragon should be rewarded just as much.
That would be my ideal BGS anyway, which would function sort of similar to war I guess. Not sure if it will happen though.
No, seeding alone is not enough with the current setup.
Wow! I didn't know you had a time machine and could tell how next BGs season will play!
I have a brain. Quite an intelligent one, that has years of experience with this game. I can tell how systems are going to play out, with pretty close certainty.
Well forgive me if I'm skeptical of the claims that a reduction of grind won't help from a person who holds the unpopular (at least from what I can tell) opinion that unbiased matchmaking within tiers in a competitive format is bad, but I don't think their concerns align with the playerbase as a whole.
Of the players who *are* strong enough to reach GC, most of the complaints I've heard are that the grind is too much. Maybe eliminating 12/19 tiers will help the job along?
Obviously that doesn't much help the people whose roster/player strength is the limiting factor rather than their time/resources, but they do have the option of improving both their accounts and their play.
There are a few complaints here that comes off as selfish and what you and others are saying is right. Big accounts have had selfish complaints in last seasons as well. But there are other points being made for the mode as a whole. One side is just choosing to ignore that discussion and zero in the small progressing accounts. The same thing small progressing account are expressing now just may become the same expression for the big accounts with the current system in place.
If that's the case so be it. How many Paragons have you seen in the forums saying "Omg im a Paragon with 16k Prestiege, ehy do I get paired with 18k-19k whales and i can't get past Arcane!" As compared as lower accounts. Its not a perfect competition as you mentioned; but the bar to compete has to be raised higher not lower. Its the 10th season and this has been the 1st competitive change as opposed of 9 seasons making sure everybody gets something.
I'd wager those paragons are satisfied with their placement and once in GC they casually do the objectives. With the current system in place them reaching Arcane isn't as stressful and difficult than it would be if they were to push further. It keeps their spot in the middle secured. The lower skilled and roster players are their food and they want to keep that food. Because the alternative is them becoming food for the top players.
Agreed, I've been stuck in Vibranium 3 for days now and the same thing happens to me, win four (against Paragons somewhat stronger than me) and then on the fifth one mega whale with r5 6* and r2 7*, I basically stand no chance. Hopefully next season won't be this bad once the seeding system is implemented, I think it's absolutely ridiculous that even Paragons with r4s and r3s can't make it to Uru 3 now because of the extra tiers and how fast the game is moving, I would've already been in Uru 3 if it wasn't for the extra tiers and the mega whales who for some weird reason are still stuck in Vibranium when they should've already been in Gamma with accounts that big.
I'm a paragon with no R5s or 7R2s. I'm at arcane 2
I made it to GC earlier today after playing like a tryhard. As I've said multiple times, this has nothing to do with roster or skills, it's the fact that for some of us, the grind is simply too much because of those extra tiers which require five wins in a row.
It's crazy how the people who do have the roster and skills still have an easy time making it to GC and beyond though.
No offense, but your roster doesn't sound particularly outstanding if you have no R5s or R2s. What's the problem with having to tryhard to get GC? Why should you be able to climb there if you're half-arsing it?
Kabam said they weren't happy with how many people were making GC, so they've made it harder. If you've plateaued in Vibranium, then you belong there and not GC.
Maybe rewards could use a touch-up (everyone should be on the paragon shop IMO) but I have no complaints for zero bias matchmaking in tiers.
Right but a few of months ago that same roster would've easily been in Uru 3 on week two. The game's economy is changing really fast, and that is precisely why you shouldn't be making it even harder for people to climb up cause now, not only do they have to fight the people who spent on those 4th of July deals but they have to beat them five times in a row (on each tier).
When did I say I want to half arse it? I just said don't make the game mode too grindy. This is the problem with you people, it's either this or that, there's no in between. In case it wasn't clear enough I still think grinding for GC needs to be a thing, but this is too much, I'm not saying give me two medals per win and remove five tiers, I'm just saying don't make it too grindy.
Also no they didn't, they said they wanted more people to make GC but lower accounts needed to work on their rosters if they wanted to make it to GC (talking about Cavs and UCs obviously since that was a problem last season).
A couple of months ago, a brand new uncollected account piloted by an experienced player could breeze their way to GC in the first few weeks too. Just because you're one of the players who was getting a free ride from there being no competition pre-GC and you're not now doesn't mean the system is broken. So a good few of your opponents have a r5 Doom, Herc and Kingpin. That rarely loses you games, and it's not like it's common to see a deck all or even mostly comprised of R5s.
You said you got to GC "after playing like a tryhard". The way I read it, it seemed like you felt you should get to GC without having to tryhard, but maybe I am reading into it too much and I apologise if so.
Seeding pushes you up to the top of plat next season onwards I think, so a good chunk of the grinding will cease.
I don't know where this "you were UC and now want free wins because you were getting them back then" narrative comes from. I wasn't UC back then, I was Cav and two quests away from TB, I never made it to GC back then cause sandbagging was still a thing. Also, for the third time, I already made it into GC
And while I don't mind grinding this much at the moment, I don't really enjoy it either, it's whatever. I definitely see myself as well as other people getting burned out eventually if every season you have to play this much to get up there, so let's hope the seeding system doesn't make it as time consuming as this season (for Paragons like me at least cause I know some people on this thread feel the same way about this situation, I get that a lot of you can easily make it on week one but we're all different, just because we're different though doesn't mean one side deserves to be there and the other doesn't unless we're talking low level accounts who obviously don't belong there YET)
Of course not, GC is obviously for strong players and low level accounts don't belong there for obvious reasons, however I do think GC isn't for elite Beroman level players only either, there needs to be balance.
Yes, we'll see how well that works next season. I just think it's okay for some people to be concerned about the state of BGs because this has been by far the season that required the most grinding to get into GC.
No, seeding alone is not enough with the current setup.
Wow! I didn't know you had a time machine and could tell how next BGs season will play!
I have a brain. Quite an intelligent one, that has years of experience with this game. I can tell how systems are going to play out, with pretty close certainty.
None of the statements made in this comment are provable fact
However, if you would like to debate my actual points about the current system, I'm all for it
I can't prove that you have a brain the same way I can't prove that you're even a human being. You could be a squirrel with access to a computer or the first ever mcoc Arena bot gone self aware. I'm also all for debating your actual points about the current system, my main point being: you cannot predict how Seeding will turn out next season or even further down the line. I don't like this BGs season either, but it will change next season and we can't be totally sure of how that experience is going to be. If it sucks, at least we'll know then exactly why.
I can, actually.
No, you can't. As someone else mentioned, unless you have a time machine you cannot be 100% sure of how Seeding is going to play out. Even some of the most well educated people on the forums cannot claim that.
As for your main point, you may be right. But I think you have to take into account roster progression. If you're a skilled and smart player, your roster will be the only thing stopping you from progressing in BGs. If you make it to your plateau in week 1, then you have all of the rewards from the lower tiers and can invest that into progressing your roster over the next 1-2 weeks. By week 4, if you still can't progress even a little bit, you likely haven't done anything required to compete. Your prediction seems to be only taking into account players attempting to bash their head against the wall trying to make it through, which obviously isn't the way this game is meant to be played.
No, seeding alone is not enough with the current setup.
Wow! I didn't know you had a time machine and could tell how next BGs season will play!
I have a brain. Quite an intelligent one, that has years of experience with this game. I can tell how systems are going to play out, with pretty close certainty.
None of the statements made in this comment are provable fact
However, if you would like to debate my actual points about the current system, I'm all for it
I can't prove that you have a brain the same way I can't prove that you're even a human being. You could be a squirrel with access to a computer or the first ever mcoc Arena bot gone self aware. I'm also all for debating your actual points about the current system, my main point being: you cannot predict how Seeding will turn out next season or even further down the line. I don't like this BGs season either, but it will change next season and we can't be totally sure of how that experience is going to be. If it sucks, at least we'll know then exactly why.
I can, actually.
No, you can't. As someone else mentioned, unless you have a time machine you cannot be 100% sure of how Seeding is going to play out. Even some of the most well educated people on the forums cannot claim that.
As for your main point, you may be right. But I think you have to take into account roster progression. If you're a skilled and smart player, your roster will be the only thing stopping you from progressing in BGs. If you make it to your plateau in week 1, then you have all of the rewards from the lower tiers and can invest that into progressing your roster over the next 1-2 weeks. By week 4, if you still can't progress even a little bit, you likely haven't done anything required to compete. Your prediction seems to be only taking into account players attempting to bash their head against the wall trying to make it through, which obviously isn't the way this game is meant to be played.
Wrong. Those Rosters in the GC Season after Season will also be progressing, at a much faster rate no less.
No, seeding alone is not enough with the current setup.
Wow! I didn't know you had a time machine and could tell how next BGs season will play!
I have a brain. Quite an intelligent one, that has years of experience with this game. I can tell how systems are going to play out, with pretty close certainty.
Well forgive me if I'm skeptical of the claims that a reduction of grind won't help from a person who holds the unpopular (at least from what I can tell) opinion that unbiased matchmaking within tiers in a competitive format is bad, but I don't think their concerns align with the playerbase as a whole.
Of the players who *are* strong enough to reach GC, most of the complaints I've heard are that the grind is too much. Maybe eliminating 12/19 tiers will help the job along?
Obviously that doesn't much help the people whose roster/player strength is the limiting factor rather than their time/resources, but they do have the option of improving both their accounts and their play.
There are a few complaints here that comes off as selfish and what you and others are saying is right. Big accounts have had selfish complaints in last seasons as well. But there are other points being made for the mode as a whole. One side is just choosing to ignore that discussion and zero in the small progressing accounts. The same thing small progressing account are expressing now just may become the same expression for the big accounts with the current system in place.
I agree there are problems for the smaller accounts, but matchmaking isn't one of them. IMO everyone should have the same BGS shop, with maybe lower progression titles getting less tokens from objectives. The fact that a bigger account has an easier time climbing and can climb higher overall should be their reward, and a conqueror who can climb as high as a paragon should be rewarded just as much.
That would be my ideal BGS anyway, which would function sort of similar to war I guess. Not sure if it will happen though.
An ideal BGs for me would be unranked and ranked. VT can be unranked and GC ranked. Based on title progression, that will be the bracket a player is placed in and the rewards shop will reflect that. Rewards are already locked behind titles everywhere else so adding it to BGs shouldn't be a problem. That will result in there being a top 3 paragon. Top 3 thronebreaker, top 3 cav. The rewards will be based on title progression. Matchmaking and elo will be title based.
No, seeding alone is not enough with the current setup.
Wow! I didn't know you had a time machine and could tell how next BGs season will play!
I have a brain. Quite an intelligent one, that has years of experience with this game. I can tell how systems are going to play out, with pretty close certainty.
Well forgive me if I'm skeptical of the claims that a reduction of grind won't help from a person who holds the unpopular (at least from what I can tell) opinion that unbiased matchmaking within tiers in a competitive format is bad, but I don't think their concerns align with the playerbase as a whole.
Of the players who *are* strong enough to reach GC, most of the complaints I've heard are that the grind is too much. Maybe eliminating 12/19 tiers will help the job along?
Obviously that doesn't much help the people whose roster/player strength is the limiting factor rather than their time/resources, but they do have the option of improving both their accounts and their play.
There are a few complaints here that comes off as selfish and what you and others are saying is right. Big accounts have had selfish complaints in last seasons as well. But there are other points being made for the mode as a whole. One side is just choosing to ignore that discussion and zero in the small progressing accounts. The same thing small progressing account are expressing now just may become the same expression for the big accounts with the current system in place.
I agree there are problems for the smaller accounts, but matchmaking isn't one of them. IMO everyone should have the same BGS shop, with maybe lower progression titles getting less tokens from objectives. The fact that a bigger account has an easier time climbing and can climb higher overall should be their reward, and a conqueror who can climb as high as a paragon should be rewarded just as much.
That would be my ideal BGS anyway, which would function sort of similar to war I guess. Not sure if it will happen though.
So you want UCs to get less from objectives which is not really that much, and have easy access to t6b and t3a? Sorry I don't agree with that. Its not sound for the rest of the game or the in game economy. Its almost like saying all progression levels should be able to buy the dame deals on 4th of July and CM, because a dollar from a Paragon is worth the same as a dollar from a UC
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Me have fingers me type!
This argument is really a distraction because no one even claimed anything with 100% certainty. I know with confidence how this is going to end, but if you're just arguing sure things, that's moot.
How many Paragons have you seen in the forums saying "Omg im a Paragon with 16k Prestiege, ehy do I get paired with 18k-19k whales and i can't get past Arcane!" As compared as lower accounts.
Its not a perfect competition as you mentioned; but the bar to compete has to be raised higher not lower. Its the 10th season and this has been the 1st competitive change as opposed of 9 seasons making sure everybody gets something.
1. Not skilled enough at the game, and or
2. Your roster is not strong enough to get to GC.
Those two reason are the ones why you're in VT. To say it is a bad system because you can't win is not quite right. Is it more difficult? Yes, but maybe wait till next season to complain? Everyone in GC now will not be able to play people in Bronze for the most part. By the time everyone departs to GC, VT should be much easier to climb out of.
I agree with @Ironman3000 I'm not a celestial player. Can't be upset that I cannot get to C6 and above. I don't see how it's any different from there being GC players and VT players.
I'm talking about what's best for the overall system. All the personal digs at my progress aren't going to change the fact that this is a real problem.
We get it. Some people don't care. Others do. So let them talk instead of trying to squash every concern they have.
Regardless, it's going to show on Kabam's side anyway, so silencing people isn't going to prevent any changes that may need to be made.
That would be my ideal BGS anyway, which would function sort of similar to war I guess. Not sure if it will happen though.
Also, for the third time, I already made it into GC
And while I don't mind grinding this much at the moment, I don't really enjoy it either, it's whatever. I definitely see myself as well as other people getting burned out eventually if every season you have to play this much to get up there, so let's hope the seeding system doesn't make it as time consuming as this season (for Paragons like me at least cause I know some people on this thread feel the same way about this situation, I get that a lot of you can easily make it on week one but we're all different, just because we're different though doesn't mean one side deserves to be there and the other doesn't unless we're talking low level accounts who obviously don't belong there YET)
Of course not, GC is obviously for strong players and low level accounts don't belong there for obvious reasons, however I do think GC isn't for elite Beroman level players only either, there needs to be balance.
Yes, we'll see how well that works next season. I just think it's okay for some people to be concerned about the state of BGs because this has been by far the season that required the most grinding to get into GC.
As for your main point, you may be right. But I think you have to take into account roster progression. If you're a skilled and smart player, your roster will be the only thing stopping you from progressing in BGs. If you make it to your plateau in week 1, then you have all of the rewards from the lower tiers and can invest that into progressing your roster over the next 1-2 weeks. By week 4, if you still can't progress even a little bit, you likely haven't done anything required to compete. Your prediction seems to be only taking into account players attempting to bash their head against the wall trying to make it through, which obviously isn't the way this game is meant to be played.