So I give up 3 of my t4cc..

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Comments

  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 11,429 Guardian
    hephaestus wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    hephaestus wrote: »
    I bet I'll pull Ironman 10 times before I pull Blade.

    It is possible, but I am willing to take that bet.

    I've already pulled him 3 times ... still no Blade.

    Checking, I've pulled 4* Iron Man three times and Blade once, but Iron Man was in the crystals for far longer than Blade. In terms of 5*, I pulled Iron Man once before pulling Blade from featured crystals, then pulled Iron Man a second time after pulling Blade. I'm still pretty confident in taking that bet, but only when the outcome isn't already certain. No one bets on history.
    hephaestus wrote: »
    Thought50 wrote: »
    1 to 1 and make it random (as long as we don’t get the same class back). Now that in my opinion is a good idea.

    That would effectively be a "pick your class system." Just keep trading whatever you want until you get what you want.

    It would also make inventory limits moot for T4CC. Just reroll anything about to expire.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 11,429 Guardian
    DrZola wrote: »
    Why do cats expire? Because Kabam decided they should, like they are tomatoes or something.

    I can't speak to what Kabam's developers think (as I'm puzzled just as often as everyone else) but speaking generally, the game design principle for why those kind of resources have inventory limits and expirations beyond a certain point outside of persistent inventory is that it places an upper ceiling on how much of that resource a player can stockpile. This forces all players, even players who have vastly higher earning capability than most players, to continue to earn those resources, preventing them from becoming moot. In a game like this, the difference in the earnings capabilities across all players is vast, so you either balance reward systems for the highest players, which makes resources almost impossible to earn for the lower players (and there are games that do this: the biggest complaint about them being that F2P players and casual players can literally make no progress compared to the hardcore whales) or you put artificial ceilings on what the top players can earn and stockpile, allowing you to make it easier to earn resources for the lower players, knowing the top players will run into a hard ceiling if they try to pull too far ahead of everyone else.

    This isn't some weird Kabam invention. This is a pretty common practice for games similar in nature to this one. And in general it isn't an arbitrary decision. Games with caps tend to be more friendly to casual players. Compared to the games without caps and with much harsher resource earning bottlenecks, MCOC is a casual cakewalk.
  • DrZolaDrZola Posts: 3,971 ★★★★★
    edited August 2018
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    DrZola wrote: »
    Why do cats expire? Because Kabam decided they should, like they are tomatoes or something.

    I can't speak to what Kabam's developers think (as I'm puzzled just as often as everyone else) but speaking generally, the game design principle for why those kind of resources have inventory limits and expirations beyond a certain point outside of persistent inventory is that it places an upper ceiling on how much of that resource a player can stockpile. This forces all players, even players who have vastly higher earning capability than most players, to continue to earn those resources, preventing them from becoming moot. In a game like this, the difference in the earnings capabilities across all players is vast, so you either balance reward systems for the highest players, which makes resources almost impossible to earn for the lower players (and there are games that do this: the biggest complaint about them being that F2P players and casual players can literally make no progress compared to the hardcore whales) or you put artificial ceilings on what the top players can earn and stockpile, allowing you to make it easier to earn resources for the lower players, knowing the top players will run into a hard ceiling if they try to pull too far ahead of everyone else.

    This isn't some weird Kabam invention. This is a pretty common practice for games similar in nature to this one. And in general it isn't an arbitrary decision. Games with caps tend to be more friendly to casual players. Compared to the games without caps and with much harsher resource earning bottlenecks, MCOC is a casual cakewalk.

    Understood—my issue is with (1) creating the cap problem (inventory caps, which in some measure stems from the L60 cap also, which gets to the overarching in-game economy issue) and then (2) offering a weak solution as if it is Christmas-come-early.

    Just be honest and call it what it is.

    Dr. Zola
  • VuskaVuska Posts: 158
    :D yeah... and Kabam always give you What you dont need.

    3 t4cc for another useless t4cc... lol
  • Feeney234Feeney234 Posts: 683 ★★★
    This is definitely for more end game players. If the idea of taking a chance with 3 Catalysts to get one is iffy to you, then you're probably not at a place where this would make sense for you to use!

    What a JOKE! I'm an end game player and I would never trade 3 for 1. Ever.
  • LeNoirFaineantLeNoirFaineant Posts: 6,640 ★★★★★
    DrZola wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    DrZola wrote: »
    This is definitely for more end game players. If the idea of taking a chance with 3 Catalysts to get one is iffy to you, then you're probably not at a place where this would make sense for you to use!
    As an end game player I can whole-heartedly dispute that statement. This is a horrible deal. End game players are overflowing with t4cc. This is just another way to stick it to us it seems. With how absolutely horrible the game has been performing recently I would think that you would start introducing things that are over the top, not whatever this is.

    100% agree. This feels...wrong. It’s the typical scenario of one step forward and three steps back with this game.

    I’m not disputing the validity of RNG in MCoC, but why should players be penalized 3:1 for poor results generated by the game? No matter how overflowing you may be, it’s a double slap in the face...and then you are subject to the whims of RNG all over again.

    Dr. Zola

    However you want to characterize it, the "penalty" of resources expiring is a consequence of inventory limits. The limits themselves imply that there's a penalty for not using resources beyond the inventory limit. Players are assuming that anything they acquire in-game is somehow something they permanently "own" and when the game "takes it away" that's a penalty, but that's simply false. The value of the trade isn't properly compared to the value of the catalysts going in, but rather to the enforced by design perishable nature of resources above the inventory limit.

    You can say it is a slap in the face that the game forces you to give up three for one, but it isn't forcing you do that. It is allowing you to take three things that are about to have zero value and trade them for something that has higher than zero value. If you're actually trading three catalysts that have actual value to you for the chance at one catalyst with actual value to you, then that's dumb and the player that does that has no one to blame but themselves. It is a slap in the face, but it is a self-inflicted one.

    While I understand the logic of it, I’m still put off by the mechanics. The very reason there is a need for this in the first place is an artificial cap on the amount of items that can be held in inventory. Why do cats expire? Because Kabam decided they should, like they are tomatoes or something. Why can’t some things be consumed before they expire? Because the other things you need in order to use all the perishable things you have aren’t readily available in game, partly because the folks who manage the overall in game economy have done so in an ad hoc fashion. Hence—rotting tomatoes.

    And the trade isn’t for things with > zero value in all instances. In fact, for many it is a trade for something with the mere potential for > zero value. That’s where the slap in the face comes in...you’ve been slapped by RNG once already and your fate is once again in the hands of RNG. I’m sure some will be happy with the results.

    But many will not.

    Dr. Zola

    One of the fundamental problems is also selectiveness and the Prestige Race. Players have been chasing Cats for years through AQ. That's led to an overwhelming surplus of them, which is bound to happen when you hyperfocus on one aspect of the game. The end result is too many. The other side, the selection side, is that people won't Rank Champs that the majority collectively deem "unworthy". Outside of not having other Resources, that is. There's very little Kabam can do to accommodate selection, outside of what they're already doing. If people Grind AQ that hard, they'll end up with Cats. If they don't use them, they'll end up with too many. The only other option is to reduce them from the AQ Crystals and redistribute them among Tiers, but I fear that would be met with a much larger reaction than this change. Fact is, people can hold on to them as long as they can, but they're meant to be used.

    We don't focus on AQ and we aren't chasing class cats. I still have 30 full t4cc crystals, over 900 t4cc frag crystals etc. No map 6 and no grinding required. Selectiveness? It's more that it isn't worth the t1 alphas to rank 3 a lot of 5*s that you'll never 4/55 and won't even use at R3 for anything but arena.
  • LeNoirFaineantLeNoirFaineant Posts: 6,640 ★★★★★
    edited August 2018
    DrZola wrote: »
    And one more thing: why all the fanfare if this is pretty much just for the smattering of players who are sitting on hundreds of T4c crystals and T4c shard crystals? This is so important a change that it needs to be trumpeted as part of Awesome August 1 or whatever it is?

    Why not just meekly say “hey we are throwing a bone to the upper upper crust” and leave it at that? This announcement is quite possibly the most verbiage we’ve gotten out of a mod in a week and it’s all about this? Sorry but it’s a trash option for all but the most rewarded Summoners in game plus those who have been so triple-witched by RNG that 1 for 3 feels like a good deal.

    Dr. Zola

    I agree that it's garbage. I still have a few in my alliance that are happy about it lol. Not that that makes it good. Just that the whole system of resources, bottlenecks, and luck makes it better than nothing.
  • RodsteinRodstein Posts: 205
    Obviously this is for end game fools, ahem i mean players that have obvious gambling urges, it is really horrible for anyone else outside said definition
  • MRod77MRod77 Posts: 154
    Feeney234 wrote: »
    This is definitely for more end game players. If the idea of taking a chance with 3 Catalysts to get one is iffy to you, then you're probably not at a place where this would make sense for you to use!

    What a JOKE! I'm an end game player and I would never trade 3 for 1. Ever.

    Even if you have them in your stash and are about to expire? would you trade in an attempt to get one you may need, let them expire or rank a champ you don't need and waste the gold, t1alphas?
  • Blax4everBlax4ever Posts: 683 ★★★
    We can back and forth until the sun stop rising but Kabam has made a decision on what they believe the gaming community in MCOC would like.

    For at least 2yrs players have talked about a trading system for resources many have given detailed explanations for how one could work. Not one of them looked or sounded like this.

    If you’ve played this game for any amount of time you’ll already know that this is how Kabam does things. They view the game differently than the community and as a consequence the game that Kabam puts out is the game they want the community to play.

    If they add something to the game that’s utterly useless, then just don’t use it. Not using something ppl spent time to create sends the strongest message that they did something wrong.

    Other than that, try to enjoy the parts of the game you like.
  • mostlyharmlessnmostlyharmlessn Posts: 858 ★★★
    shchong2 wrote: »
    This is definitely for more end game players. If the idea of taking a chance with 3 Catalysts to get one is iffy to you, then you're probably not at a place where this would make sense for you to use!

    As someone that has ranked up champs to avoid expiring cats, I think this is a great idea.

    I am by no means an end game player, but I have been in the situation where I have had to face the situation of - spending 5 t1a and 4 t4b's to avoid allowing 2 t4cc's to expire and end up R3'in a 5* I had no intention of ranking up past r2.

    I would have happily sold 3 of the t4cc's to avoid spending the t1a's and t4b's.

    @mostlyharmlessn , Glad you like it
    Pls do share with us once you tried the 3:1 RNG
    Do share with you, but trading in your expiring 3 T4cc
    do you manage to get the 1 T4cc of the class you need, or do the RNG give you one of the class that you are also overflowing?
    Would like to feel your experience since I won't do it myself :)
    Cheers and all the best!

    But Yes I did trade in 3 Tech T4CCs.
    Like I've said I would have been happy with anything else, and I got Cosmic.
    Again since it was not another tech, I'm quite happy. It gave me enough Cosmic T4C's I'm going to R3 5* Proxima Midnight during the next level up event.

    I would have been happy with Mutant to R3 5* Rogue, Skill to R3 5* CWBP, Science to R3 Hulk (Classic) as well.

    I'll do it again since the game seems to give me an over abundance of Tech T4cc holding on to just enough to R3 a Stark Spidey if I ever get him.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 26,285 ★★★★★
    DrZola wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    DrZola wrote: »
    This is definitely for more end game players. If the idea of taking a chance with 3 Catalysts to get one is iffy to you, then you're probably not at a place where this would make sense for you to use!
    As an end game player I can whole-heartedly dispute that statement. This is a horrible deal. End game players are overflowing with t4cc. This is just another way to stick it to us it seems. With how absolutely horrible the game has been performing recently I would think that you would start introducing things that are over the top, not whatever this is.

    100% agree. This feels...wrong. It’s the typical scenario of one step forward and three steps back with this game.

    I’m not disputing the validity of RNG in MCoC, but why should players be penalized 3:1 for poor results generated by the game? No matter how overflowing you may be, it’s a double slap in the face...and then you are subject to the whims of RNG all over again.

    Dr. Zola

    However you want to characterize it, the "penalty" of resources expiring is a consequence of inventory limits. The limits themselves imply that there's a penalty for not using resources beyond the inventory limit. Players are assuming that anything they acquire in-game is somehow something they permanently "own" and when the game "takes it away" that's a penalty, but that's simply false. The value of the trade isn't properly compared to the value of the catalysts going in, but rather to the enforced by design perishable nature of resources above the inventory limit.

    You can say it is a slap in the face that the game forces you to give up three for one, but it isn't forcing you do that. It is allowing you to take three things that are about to have zero value and trade them for something that has higher than zero value. If you're actually trading three catalysts that have actual value to you for the chance at one catalyst with actual value to you, then that's dumb and the player that does that has no one to blame but themselves. It is a slap in the face, but it is a self-inflicted one.

    While I understand the logic of it, I’m still put off by the mechanics. The very reason there is a need for this in the first place is an artificial cap on the amount of items that can be held in inventory. Why do cats expire? Because Kabam decided they should, like they are tomatoes or something. Why can’t some things be consumed before they expire? Because the other things you need in order to use all the perishable things you have aren’t readily available in game, partly because the folks who manage the overall in game economy have done so in an ad hoc fashion. Hence—rotting tomatoes.

    And the trade isn’t for things with > zero value in all instances. In fact, for many it is a trade for something with the mere potential for > zero value. That’s where the slap in the face comes in...you’ve been slapped by RNG once already and your fate is once again in the hands of RNG. I’m sure some will be happy with the results.

    But many will not.

    Dr. Zola

    One of the fundamental problems is also selectiveness and the Prestige Race. Players have been chasing Cats for years through AQ. That's led to an overwhelming surplus of them, which is bound to happen when you hyperfocus on one aspect of the game. The end result is too many. The other side, the selection side, is that people won't Rank Champs that the majority collectively deem "unworthy". Outside of not having other Resources, that is. There's very little Kabam can do to accommodate selection, outside of what they're already doing. If people Grind AQ that hard, they'll end up with Cats. If they don't use them, they'll end up with too many. The only other option is to reduce them from the AQ Crystals and redistribute them among Tiers, but I fear that would be met with a much larger reaction than this change. Fact is, people can hold on to them as long as they can, but they're meant to be used.

    We don't focus on AQ and we aren't chasing class cats. I still have 30 full t4cc crystals, over 900 t4cc frag crystals etc. No map 6 and no grinding required. Selectiveness? It's more that it isn't worth the t1 alphas to rank 3 a lot of 5*s that you'll never 4/55 and won't even use at R3 for anything but arena.

    I'd take anything to at least R3. I pick what I want to Rank first, but if I had the Resources, I'd Rank everything. Never know when something will come in handy.
  • DoctorJDoctorJ Posts: 842 ★★★
    Sold 3 science cats - got a tech (now in over flow). Sell 3 tech, get a science cat.

    Why would you make this rng based?
  • DONZALOOG1234DONZALOOG1234 Posts: 99
    But why does it have to be 3 for 1?
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 26,285 ★★★★★
    But why does it have to be 3 for 1?

    If it was 1 for 1, there wouldn't be a cost to it, and people would just infinitely swap until they got what they wanted.
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