General Game Feedback [Merged Threads]

19091939596118

Comments

  • DragonBloodÆDragonBloodÆ Member Posts: 28
    I made a post about arena buff,They butter AT LEAST buff the arena mile stones and increase the multiplayer to get to the mile stones faster.
    IF NO UPDATE came to arena or mastery,then i will quit this (Game) it wasn't worth my 4 years of investment i am a 4 year old player and had not pulled 5* himdal or hypiron for that 6.2 sinster boss.
    I could EASILY defeat sinster 6.2 if 4* where allowed because i have both of these characters as 4*.
  • This content has been removed.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,573 ★★★★★
    Maybe that's part of the problem. Make them too desirable, and you end up with a much larger margin that people feel discontent with.
  • SatsuiNoHadouSatsuiNoHadou Member Posts: 753 ★★★
    edited June 2020
    DNA3000 said:

    There's always going to be a need for bad champs. They're put there to balance out the "good" champs.

    I don't think that is true. But I'm not sure of the best way to explain the subtle distinction.

    Let me try this. There is no game design reason why there should be "stronger" or "weaker" champs per se. However, there *is* a very strong game design reason to ensure that for any one player, that one player *desires* some champs more than others. If they are all equally desirable, that's problematic, because psychologically valuation is relative. If they are all equally desirable, they will eventually all become equally undesirable. If the game was full of nothing but "god-tier" champs, those god-tier champs would all be meh in time.

    Having said that, there's no game design reason why every single player should *agree* on the order of desirability, and that changes everything. If every champ had strong uses, but we all disagreed about which uses were ultimately more valuable, that would be perfectly fine. In fact, that should be the ultimate goal. Every player would have a priority of preference and wouldn't get bored with champions, but every champion would have its followers. But this is a tricky thing to achieve. We're still debating endlessly over which Starcraft race is the best, so it is an achievable goal in theory. But in practice, this takes very solid design fidelity.

    A long time ago I used to play hex board games, and one of my favorites was a game called Ogre. Off and on, I've been studying this game for literally forty years. The fact that we're still arguing over which side has the advantage in *that* game is impressive. But also it is my go-to example whenever someone says that "balance is impossible." This game is one of the best teaching aids for what "balance" even is (it isn't synonymous with equality in any form) and how even the most asymmetrical game in existence can present a choice to players for which there is no correct choice and everyone disagrees over the best choice.

    If the Ogre can be balanced against the army in terms of the meta game, then champions can be balanced in terms of different people choosing different champs as the best without any of them actually being the best.

    Not saying it is easy, and I'm not even saying Kabam itself is capable of doing it. Only that it isn't impossible. And there's hints of it in the game. Killmonger is seen as fantastic by some, average by others. Crossbones is another such champion. It is possible to make champs that are impossible to say are "bad" but nevertheless polarize the players in terms of whether they are worth pursuing and investing in. That sort of thing is better than "good" and "bad" champs but produces similar psychological results.
    TL:DR, just kidding. But to sum it up, what DNA3K is saying is that for us to appreciate certain champs there have to be champs that are not as strong in comparison, it’s all about relativism. Anyways @DNA3000 you sound like an academic from your mannerisms, and I’d wager that you’re from a related field of biomed/biotech.

    Edit: it’s all about having an element of subjectivity within this relativism if you know what I mean.
  • This content has been removed.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,676 Guardian
    SparkAlot said:

    This thread has turned into a vent thread, with no new information coming out.

    I thought the purpose of this thread was to establish some sort of communication with the decision makers, and it basically has been a one way street.

    If we are waiting on Kabam for a more official response, then why not lock this thread until that happens?

    The purpose of every thread on the forums that isn't an announcement thread (which are locked immediately) is for players to have the opportunity to discuss things with other players. Every other purpose is a secondary purpose. The devs might be reading, the devs might be taking the discussion into account, but the purpose of this thread was and is to allow players to discuss the state of the game with each other.
    BAMBAM232 said:

    It is evident Kabam don't take the playing community seriously.

    There has been little to no communication, and all the concerns are just ignored.

    You can see by the rewards of the latest MODOK side quest that they are not taking anything on board

    Content like this is generally in the pipeline for months. I wouldn't assume anything in MODOK's labs would reflect any of the recent discussion yet.
  • BAMBAM232BAMBAM232 Member Posts: 22
    DNA3000 said:

    SparkAlot said:



    Content like this is generally in the pipeline for months. I wouldn't assume anything in MODOK's labs would reflect any of the recent discussion yet.

    Yes I agree but given the current community outrage it should of been something they should of and could changed
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,676 Guardian
    BAMBAM232 said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Content like this is generally in the pipeline for months. I wouldn't assume anything in MODOK's labs would reflect any of the recent discussion yet.

    Yes I agree but given the current community outrage it should of been something they should of and could changed
    Fair enough. But I'm pointing out the content has been in the queue for months not to say it is immutable, but rather that it is a judgment call that reasonable people could disagree on as to whether it should be changed on the fly while the forward looking roadmap is still being discussed. It doesn't prove they aren't taking the feedback discussion seriously.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,573 ★★★★★
    Having a conversation isn't a guarantee that everyone will be happy with everything moving forward. We're going to like some Events more than others, and that's been true as long as there have been a variety of Events. Some are more lucrative than others. Rewards add up over the year overall. It's virtually impossible to balance the awards over the year and still make everyone satisfied, but what they try to do is have something for everyone. As always, we have a choice to gauge whether we consider it worth the effort for us personally. Side Events are not mandatory, nor are they required for normal workings of the game. They're bonus content that run alongside the Event Quest.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,573 ★★★★★
    Who said anything about addiction? It's about managing how much Resources can be acquired over the course of the year. They're not just arbitrary numbers. Also, they are bonus content. It's not required to do them for the EQ. The opposite is sometimes true, actually.
  • SatsuiNoHadouSatsuiNoHadou Member Posts: 753 ★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    Akumaccb said:

    DNA3000 said:

    There's always going to be a need for bad champs. They're put there to balance out the "good" champs.

    I don't think that is true. But I'm not sure of the best way to explain the subtle distinction.

    Let me try this. There is no game design reason why there should be "stronger" or "weaker" champs per se. However, there *is* a very strong game design reason to ensure that for any one player, that one player *desires* some champs more than others. If they are all equally desirable, that's problematic, because psychologically valuation is relative. If they are all equally desirable, they will eventually all become equally undesirable. If the game was full of nothing but "god-tier" champs, those god-tier champs would all be meh in time.

    Having said that, there's no game design reason why every single player should *agree* on the order of desirability, and that changes everything. If every champ had strong uses, but we all disagreed about which uses were ultimately more valuable, that would be perfectly fine. In fact, that should be the ultimate goal. Every player would have a priority of preference and wouldn't get bored with champions, but every champion would have its followers. But this is a tricky thing to achieve. We're still debating endlessly over which Starcraft race is the best, so it is an achievable goal in theory. But in practice, this takes very solid design fidelity.

    A long time ago I used to play hex board games, and one of my favorites was a game called Ogre. Off and on, I've been studying this game for literally forty years. The fact that we're still arguing over which side has the advantage in *that* game is impressive. But also it is my go-to example whenever someone says that "balance is impossible." This game is one of the best teaching aids for what "balance" even is (it isn't synonymous with equality in any form) and how even the most asymmetrical game in existence can present a choice to players for which there is no correct choice and everyone disagrees over the best choice.

    If the Ogre can be balanced against the army in terms of the meta game, then champions can be balanced in terms of different people choosing different champs as the best without any of them actually being the best.

    Not saying it is easy, and I'm not even saying Kabam itself is capable of doing it. Only that it isn't impossible. And there's hints of it in the game. Killmonger is seen as fantastic by some, average by others. Crossbones is another such champion. It is possible to make champs that are impossible to say are "bad" but nevertheless polarize the players in terms of whether they are worth pursuing and investing in. That sort of thing is better than "good" and "bad" champs but produces similar psychological results.
    TL:DR, just kidding. But to sum it up, what DNA3K is saying is that for us to appreciate certain champs there have to be champs that are not as strong in comparison, it’s all about relativism.
    They don't have to be weaker, they just have to be sufficiently different that you and I would argue endlessly over which was better. A healthy meta here would be one where we don't all agree. We don't all agree on which champs are the best, which is good. But we kinda all tend to agree on which ones are the worst. And that's a problem.
    And that’s the issue I would add, this is your ideal, unattainable scenario. It will never happen as in all the fighting games from MVC, SF4 & 5, Guilty Gear, DBFZ to Mortal Kombat that I’ve played you always have characters segregated in tiers according to how strong they are in comparison to others. It’s just how fighting games should be built, on strengths and weaknesses and not just about pure differences. This is the meta of fighting games, which I have been a veteran of for decades.
  • edited June 2020
    This content has been removed.
  • xNigxNig Member Posts: 7,330 ★★★★★
    Lvernon15 said:

    Now I think we all know there is a need for a cavalier difficulty event quest, and that some side events are just flat out rubbish, like this month’s, but there are other issues endgame players like myself face when it comes to event quests, and that is that all the rewards are catered to the progressing later game players even in the highest difficulty.

    Let’s look at rifts, the top rewards in there were a 5* awakening gem, 5 star shards and 6* shards, all of this is good, but it’s highly unlikely to provide any major benefit to an endgame account, you’d have to get extremely lucky both in the rifts and crystals to get a significant boost. 5* shards t5b t2a are all old news for top players, and 6* shards are worthless 80% if the time due to the chanpion pool and specifity of endgame content.

    The resources we need are just not in events, those resources being: 6* sigs, t5cc fragments and 6 star awakening gems, and also large quantities of 5 star sigs so non spending endgame players can have a larger variety of high sig 5 stars.

    Now I know you can’t just go adding large amounts of those resources in events, you can’t just throw a 3% chance at a 6* ag in rifts or a t5cc in the modok store, but you can provide us with small-moderate amounts of sigs and t5cc, like this month, add the option to buy 10 6* sigs and 10 2% t5cc fragments, nothing major, nothing that takes the flare from rewards in content like abyss, but something that will benefit us in a significant way in the long term

    Now the issue with this, is that the current top milestone is cavalier, and there’s a huge disparity between people with this title, so rather than making a new title, add new difficulties, I know cavalier eq needs work to tune the difficulty, but side quests are also a problem, they’re capped at a level that almost all new cavalier players, and most uncollected player can easily explore. Add in a new side quest difficulty, an example for these labs, 50-70k rated opponents, 4-5 buffs, something that’s a challenge even for top players, bu have the option of endgame rewards after it.

    This is in the view of an endgame player, and obviously there are other issues with the game and other problems that would arise with these ideas, but it’s a necessary step for the future of the endgame, big content is 1 time, and once it’s done we enter a dead period where we are just waiting around and preparing for the next chapter of story mode or the next abyss, and event quests are the solution, both side events and cavalier eq, that is what will make the endgame interesting in the long term.

    I hope you take this into consideration and are considering this sort of thing for your medium term roadmaps

    (This is a copy paste of a post I’ve made, thought it also deserves to be here)

    +1.

    Well written and yes, it’s a small step to implement an additional difficulty for the side quest, but a significant one.
  • StevieManWonderStevieManWonder Member Posts: 5,019 ★★★★★
    gianleo said:

    Idk if Kabam staffs are reading and working on this thread anymore? No replying, no improvement on the new quests.

    I'm sure they are still reading and working on this thread. They won't reply unless they have something to say and as for the new quests, they were already in the works before this thread started.
  • This content has been removed.
  • This content has been removed.
Sign In or Register to comment.