All of this is outstanding information except for one somewhat large issue: there is no helpful information about when the changes to Act 6 difficulty will occur.
You mention that they will happen, hopefully, before Act 1 Book 2 releases in December 2020. That's 6 months from now. In the meantime, should players continue doing Act 6 content and hope the compensation is sufficient for their over-expenditure of resources? Should they stop completing and exploring Act 6 for weeks... but maybe months... or longer, in the hope that the Act 6 attack decrease will be worth the wait? What should the players do in the meantime with overflowing stashes and less content to complete?
Between now and December 1, anyone working on Act 6 is caught in limbo. I really hope Kabam considers giving more information about when the attack value decrease will occur so players can plan accordingly.
I agree. I am at the moment at the conclusion of chapter 3, towards 4. And I get into this question, whether I should continue now or wait until these changes occur. I need the completion prizes to take my champions to another level.
Outlines can have timeframes. Something would be nice like, early/late summer, or November. Not a, 'coming soon,' BS marketing move, which is what I'm reading. Hell, the alliance bases were always, 'coming soon.' Look how that turned out.
I agree with this 100%. A development team always have timelines. Regardless of whether they are in Agile / Waterfall / Spiral (all software development delivery styles). Everything has timelines. I understand they cant share it very specifically but at least some estimates will be greatly appreciated. Q4 2020 / Sept 2021. Some actual figures always help the cause.
A roadmap without timelines is just similar to a bucket list of things they want to do but not sure when yet.
This is disappointing for Uncollected players. There was almost nothing in this post that is relevant for mid-game players. I imagine the future posts about champion buffs and arena changes and stuff like that might be more relevant, but if you're still grinding through Act 5, all the stuff about Act 6 is basically meaningless, all the stuff about new Variants isn't particularly useful, the Summer of Pain isn't even something to think about. As an Uncollected player, the only thing here that I can do anything with is go replay Act 2 for the rewards after it gets reset.
I would argue that this means the MOST to our Uncollected Summoners. The step after that is becoming Cavalier, and that opens up another big world for you. That may not be right now, but when you get to it, these improvements are going to make it a better transition for you.
Rather them give units than what you said. I agree that the attack value reduction is quite a bit and a lot of units would have been saved on revives, but the compensation you've written is too much imo.
Have you 100% Act 6? Tell me how these changes will not lower Exploration by 10K units? I blew 2000 units and a decent stash on the first try of No Retreat Champion, then had to go back in and used more units. That is at least 2500 units I wasted on one fight in ALL of Act 6.
Act 6 was so bad I boosted through at least 80% of the paths. 50 paths of boosts is 7500 units alone (assuming full boosting of 150 units).
If they don't want to give Shards and Resources they need to be 10,000 units or what that is worth. Not some revives and potions.
Agreed. Given how much they are nerfing act 6, the compensation for people who completed it and especially for those like me who explored it needs to be substantial. With these new attack values, Exploration will be a walk in the park compared to original.
What is considered substantial is the thing? I agree that it needs to be worth it and not useless, but getting to that point is the issue. I don't agree with those posting rewards that are practically the same as Act 6 exploration. That's too much.
What I would consider to be a good compensation for Act 6 100% is what the rewards should have been in the first place and now considering how much easier it will be to do Act 6 100% with the nerf, I really do think that this is fair: Another 1-2 T5cc Generic Six star awakening gem 4 t5b 30-50K Six star shards 5 Million gold 8 T2 Alpha.
Here is the lowest I would consider to be acceptable: 1 t5cc or a 75% t5cc selector Generic six star awakening gem or 2 class crystals 2 t5b 20K Six star shards 2.5 million gold
Here is what Kabam will likely give: 25% T5cc crystal 20K Six star shards 1 million gold 1 t5b
Here's what I'm worried Kabam will give: 10 Lvl 4 Revives
Alternatively, I would also accept 10K units as someone else previously offered.
Reducing act 5 energy cost to 2 like act 4 would be so good i thought they would consider it but i guess not. Other than that everything looks promising.
Has there been any talk about revamping the cavalier crystals? Once you’re cavalier 3*s are pretty much pointless and the ISO they provide from dupes is pitiful for someone that’s made it to cavalier. Cavalier crystals are the only crystals that offer four different star level champs. PCs offer 2*-4*, GMCs offer 3*-5*, but Cavalier crystals offer 3*-6*. 3*s should have never been in the cav crystals to start with but I haven’t seen anywhere it has been mentioned (to be fair, I don’t come to these forums much).
This is disappointing for Uncollected players. There was almost nothing in this post that is relevant for mid-game players. I imagine the future posts about champion buffs and arena changes and stuff like that might be more relevant, but if you're still grinding through Act 5, all the stuff about Act 6 is basically meaningless, all the stuff about new Variants isn't particularly useful, the Summer of Pain isn't even something to think about. As an Uncollected player, the only thing here that I can do anything with is go replay Act 2 for the rewards after it gets reset.
Well it's not like Uncollected players need anything fixed. Act 5 is fine as it is and UC EQ is fine as it is now that Cav EQ is coming.
Overall I like the look of a lot of what was said and just hope to see it implemented quickly as the community really needs action not words right now - this said, the post was well worded and I do appreciate the effort put into it. Please add units to uncollected and cavalier difficulty EQs as is done with the lower difficulties (I haven’t seen this mentioned on the breakdown)
My only real problem are these few lines that seem to contradict each other...
Here, when taking about Act Content, you say every account has a specific Flag to tell when you've Completed/Explored a Quest like Act Chapters...
But then here you say it'd be too difficult to figure who all has Completed/Explored each Act for any Future Compensation...
So couldn't you just search for the Specific Flag you gave each account to see if they've done the Act you are planning on reworking and compensate them accordingly?
Finally here you say someone going against The Collector wouldn't need the Previous Act Rewards, once Buffed, to beat him.
But I would argue, namely for Act 4 and possibly Act 3 Rewards, you very much may need them. Hell some Cavalier Players may need them to help beat the Grandmaster, for an example any T1 Alpha Catalysts that any of the Buffed Act Rewards could give since taking a 5 Star from Rank 4 to Rank 5 still Requires 6 T1 Alpha alone and Even More for each previous Rank Up that you may need to use on a certain champion to help you beat that Grandmaster or Collector Fight. That's just T1 Alpha as an Example too, not even counting any T4 Basic Catalysts, Rank Up Gems, Iso, T2 Alpha, Gold, T4 Class Catalysts, Signature Stones or anything else y'all could possibly add to those Acts that still effect mid-endgame players.
The compensation needs to be hefty for the those who already 100% act 6. I probably spent 300 USD to 100 percent that champion chapter. And another 2k USD between 6.2, 6.3, and 6.4. I understand compensation won’t be close to that but you guys need to stop Nerfing old content.
Dude how selfish are you? You want other people to go through the same pain as you? Be quiet and stop complaining imagine you hadn’t cleared it yet because you found it hard and then people complain saying iT sHoUlDnT bE nErFeD bEcAuSe i dId iT wHeN iT wAs hArD.grow up don’t complain about other people getting a easier time
Honestly i don’t think it should be nerfed at all. I think content that is released should stay the same. If you can’t complete it then play better. Ive watched much better players then me solo the collector, i could not, so i got through with units. If content is to hard then it should not be released. I would rather them not nerf it at all and have everyone struggle the same. This is a competitive game, not patty cake.
The blog post only tangentially touches on this ("we’ve spent a lot of time discussing the current direction of Quests in the game and what exactly we’re aiming to accomplish in each category, while also considering each audience and what they want from the game") but I believe the game should explicitly promote the idea that there's different kinds of content intended for different purposes. There should be challenge content, like the Variants, design to provide different levels of higher challenge in the game. And there should be top tier end game content designed to test the highest tiers of player, like the Abyss or the Maze. But there should also be content that is intended for the average or even *below average* player to be able to eventually build roster and skill to progress through in a reasonable amount of time.
Some people think that progress ladder can end at Act 5, and Act 6 and Book 2 and beyond can be for the genuinely high skilled players. I don't agree. There should be a path into the future for everyone, or at least a reasonable majority of them. The story arc content should be that path, and that means we can't just tell everyone to git gud and plow through Act 6, and on through Book 2. The path to get through Act 6 must be reasonable, and while that is a subjective statement, I believe that it shouldn't be a quantum leap harder than Act 5. It should be incrementally harder, perhaps, but also something that, like Act 5, if you can't beat it you can try to build up stronger roster to eventually make it easier.
Act 5 can be "outleveled" and done by people will less still, less time, slower hands, cheaper phones. Act 6 can't be, and in its current form cannot ever be by any conceivable roster that will likely be possible in the foreseeable future, because Act 6 is already tuned to require strong teams of 5* max rank champs and significantly above average skill, and Kabam also applied diminishing returns on 6* rank up power which makes them unable to provide the outleveing path that 5* champs did for Act 5.
I can't "prove" Act 6 is too hard: that's a matter of opinion. But I can say as someone who's already gotten past the Champion and still doing paths in Act 6 myself that I would rather the game I play be one that is inclusive of a wide range of players while still providing top tier challenges for the absolute strongest of us. Having a range of content - Story Arc for progressing players, Variants for those that want to be challenged, and Endgame Abyss-like and Maze-like aspirational content to test the absolute best of us, is what I want the game I play to be.
This game is not a competitive game. This game is a game with competitive elements in it. The whole of the game shouldn't be dominated by one type of player's personal preferences.
The changes are great! Really good to see they listened on improvements needed.
As most are already mentioning though, what happens to those of us that did 100% act 6 with attack values way above tier from what they will soon be? That’s a lot more revives and pots used then it will take in the future so it definitely warrants asking for something. And if I don’t get crystals or revives/pots, even a legendary title for clearing it pre-Nerf would be nice 😂
Last bit, I didn’t see anything on abyss. This challenge is 100% a cash grab and I think there’s small tweaks that could make it better. For example, instead of making champs go unblockable & unstoppable after a certain amount of hits, why not just unblockable? It’s still a tough challenge at that point but at least makes it do able for skilled players to not just quit the fight when it turns impossible. Food for thought.
They addressed that .. if you completed more than 3 months before the changes go live you don't get compensation as it's too much data to analyze..
Rather them give units than what you said. I agree that the attack value reduction is quite a bit and a lot of units would have been saved on revives, but the compensation you've written is too much imo.
Have you 100% Act 6? Tell me how these changes will not lower Exploration by 10K units? I blew 2000 units and a decent stash on the first try of No Retreat Champion, then had to go back in and used more units. That is at least 2500 units I wasted on one fight in ALL of Act 6.
Act 6 was so bad I boosted through at least 80% of the paths. 50 paths of boosts is 7500 units alone (assuming full boosting of 150 units).
If they don't want to give Shards and Resources they need to be 10,000 units or what that is worth. Not some revives and potions.
Agreed. Given how much they are nerfing act 6, the compensation for people who completed it and especially for those like me who explored it needs to be substantial. With these new attack values, Exploration will be a walk in the park compared to original.
What is considered substantial is the thing? I agree that it needs to be worth it and not useless, but getting to that point is the issue. I don't agree with those posting rewards that are practically the same as Act 6 exploration. That's too much.
What I would consider to be a good compensation for Act 6 100% is what the rewards should have been in the first place and now considering how much easier it will be to do Act 6 100% with the nerf, I really do think that this is fair: Another 1-2 T5cc Generic Six star awakening gem 4 t5b 30-50K Six star shards 5 Million gold 8 T2 Alpha.
Here is the lowest I would consider to be acceptable: 1 t5cc or a 75% t5cc selector Generic six star awakening gem or 2 class crystals 2 t5b 20K Six star shards 2.5 million gold
Here is what Kabam will likely give: 25% T5cc crystal 20K Six star shards 1 million gold 1 t5b
Here's what I'm worried Kabam will give: 10 Lvl 4 Revives
Alternatively, I would also accept 10K units as someone else previously offered.
We get 1 Awakening gem Generic from exploration. Asking for 2 Class crystals is a lot. Or another generic gem. 1 T5cc or 50% selector and 25% random seems fair I guess. Increase in gold isn't needed unless done for everyone. I agree with T2A(6) and even 2 T5b. Don't agree with 50k 6* shards. 20 is right imo.
Rather them give units than what you said. I agree that the attack value reduction is quite a bit and a lot of units would have been saved on revives, but the compensation you've written is too much imo.
Have you 100% Act 6? Tell me how these changes will not lower Exploration by 10K units? I blew 2000 units and a decent stash on the first try of No Retreat Champion, then had to go back in and used more units. That is at least 2500 units I wasted on one fight in ALL of Act 6.
Act 6 was so bad I boosted through at least 80% of the paths. 50 paths of boosts is 7500 units alone (assuming full boosting of 150 units).
If they don't want to give Shards and Resources they need to be 10,000 units or what that is worth. Not some revives and potions.
Agreed. Given how much they are nerfing act 6, the compensation for people who completed it and especially for those like me who explored it needs to be substantial. With these new attack values, Exploration will be a walk in the park compared to original.
What is considered substantial is the thing? I agree that it needs to be worth it and not useless, but getting to that point is the issue. I don't agree with those posting rewards that are practically the same as Act 6 exploration. That's too much.
What I would consider to be a good compensation for Act 6 100% is what the rewards should have been in the first place and now considering how much easier it will be to do Act 6 100% with the nerf, I really do think that this is fair: Another 1-2 T5cc Generic Six star awakening gem 4 t5b 30-50K Six star shards 5 Million gold 8 T2 Alpha.
Here is the lowest I would consider to be acceptable: 1 t5cc or a 75% t5cc selector Generic six star awakening gem or 2 class crystals 2 t5b 20K Six star shards 2.5 million gold
Here is what Kabam will likely give: 25% T5cc crystal 20K Six star shards 1 million gold 1 t5b
Here's what I'm worried Kabam will give: 10 Lvl 4 Revives
Alternatively, I would also accept 10K units as someone else previously offered.
I'm sorry but this is a joke, where are the t3a and t6b??? i would say what you put 1st, with the 2 t5cc and generic gem is the ABSOLUTELY minimum, and if there's not at least the resources to rank 4 a 6* it's unaccpetable
Its a sales pitch not a fix. We need timelines not promises.
"Trust but verify" -Ronald Reagan
I agree with you 100%. Plus, anything can sound good on paper, but when it comes to actual gameplay, is a different story. Just like people thought Anihilus and Emma Frost were going to be top 5 champions based on what was read. Then they actually played them, and a different story. Granted, Emma is not bad by any means, just not the second coming of Scarlet Witch like people thought.
It's a roadmap. Just an outline. They can't give specifics if they're not locked in yet. To be fair, I doubt many of us were expecting an ignition this fast.
Outlines can have timeframes. Something would be nice like, early/late summer, or November. Not a, 'coming soon,' BS marketing move, which is what I'm reading. Hell, the alliance bases were always, 'coming soon.' Look how that turned out.
They gave a tentative for what they have. They can't give time frames for what they don't have yet. It's a detailed look into what they're working on. It isn't an itinerary.
I would also like to see something about 1*s being added to more of the temporary content similar to how we’ve had exclusive 2*s recently. Though I accept this may be more of a topic for the champions/crystals saga of the roadmap?
"As for those that have recently completed Act 6, we are exploring the options for compensation."
What does recently mean here?
hope they respect it, even if it was done the day before, after all, it is everyone's effort. It would be an injustice for me to set a time limit to access those rewards when the results of those awards are disappointing
I welcome these changes for the benefit of the community and understand you're currently exploring options to compensate players who already explored Act 6. However, regarding compensation my skepticism compels me to share my experience.
I'm missing 3 paths to 100% Act6, having interrupted exploration a few weeks ago trying to save units for the 4th of July deals. I always explored most end content with minimal costs, relying mostly on skill and strategy. However, the design of 6.2, 6.3 and specially 6.4 forced me to spend an astronomical amount of resources.
I had to explore 6.4 without a quake or ghost. I don't have them despite having 108 5star champs (some naturally duped to 200), and it made no sense waiting for a quake to complete important content. I haven't gotten one in more than 5 years playing the game and frankly, it might not ever happen. Exploring 6.4 without a quake was simply an exercise in spending resources. I'm not even going to speak about all the mixes of nodes you have to deal with, bound to 15k attack values, for which there were no good counters besides quake. I mean, p.e. if bane switched during the opponent's special animation I was pretty much death on those seconds. I'll just refer the blocking damage and the amount of unavoidable passive debuff damage which were bound to those 15k attack values. Most of those could be ignored by quake or even ghost players.
Reducing the attack values to less than half of their original values, will make this content content manageable and approachable by a vast array of champions, not only quake or ghost. And will make it possible to be explored with minimal costs.
Underestimating, I spent about 40K units and several hundreds of saved potions exploring 6.2, 6.3 and 6.4. The amount of arena grind I had to do for units spent on 6.4 led to the greatest burnout this game ever gave me. At the moment I don't have enough resources to try to complete my first path of the Abyss neither units for the 4th of July unit deals, they were all burnt on Act6.
I hope you take all this into consideration while calculation Act6 compensations.
If that's what you think just *some* of the resources you spent on Act 6 are worth, why did you do Act 6 in the first place? I mean this is arguably comparable to and within a small radius of Act 6's completion and exploration rewards combined. If you think the difference between what you did spend and what you would have spent is that high, you arguably spent more to complete the content than it was worth to you in the first place. You can't be rewarded for spending excessively to complete content.
Compensation can't be based on what everyone spent to do it, because that's saying the more someone spent, the less skillfully they completed it, the more they deserve to be rewarded for that. That's simply illogical.
On Act 6. Compensation for Act 6 should be flagged to completion and exploration per quest. Completion being a little, maybe more in the case of 6.2.6.
This is content that is temporary and going away. Heck, throw units and revives at us and wipe our progress. We can do the nerfed ones and get the rewards again.
Rather them give units than what you said. I agree that the attack value reduction is quite a bit and a lot of units would have been saved on revives, but the compensation you've written is too much imo.
Have you 100% Act 6? Tell me how these changes will not lower Exploration by 10K units? I blew 2000 units and a decent stash on the first try of No Retreat Champion, then had to go back in and used more units. That is at least 2500 units I wasted on one fight in ALL of Act 6.
Act 6 was so bad I boosted through at least 80% of the paths. 50 paths of boosts is 7500 units alone (assuming full boosting of 150 units).
If they don't want to give Shards and Resources they need to be 10,000 units or what that is worth. Not some revives and potions.
Agreed. Given how much they are nerfing act 6, the compensation for people who completed it and especially for those like me who explored it needs to be substantial. With these new attack values, Exploration will be a walk in the park compared to original.
What is considered substantial is the thing? I agree that it needs to be worth it and not useless, but getting to that point is the issue. I don't agree with those posting rewards that are practically the same as Act 6 exploration. That's too much.
What I would consider to be a good compensation for Act 6 100% is what the rewards should have been in the first place and now considering how much easier it will be to do Act 6 100% with the nerf, I really do think that this is fair: Another 1-2 T5cc Generic Six star awakening gem 4 t5b 30-50K Six star shards 5 Million gold 8 T2 Alpha.
Here is the lowest I would consider to be acceptable: 1 t5cc or a 75% t5cc selector Generic six star awakening gem or 2 class crystals 2 t5b 20K Six star shards 2.5 million gold
Here is what Kabam will likely give: 25% T5cc crystal 20K Six star shards 1 million gold 1 t5b
Here's what I'm worried Kabam will give: 10 Lvl 4 Revives
Alternatively, I would also accept 10K units as someone else previously offered.
Even 4th of July deals won't give a generic for 10k units. Disagree with that. The rewards under what you said as 'lowest for acceptable' seem to be somewhat fair, except the gems. Not sure about T5cc, since it's really rare. And I don't see how adding gold is fair. Gold should be constant. Rather put in 6 T2A. Also, if they do give a huge boost in rewards, then removing the 15k shards from Abyss is completely unfair.
Comments
A roadmap without timelines is just similar to a bucket list of things they want to do but not sure when yet.
Another 1-2 T5cc
Generic Six star awakening gem
4 t5b
30-50K Six star shards
5 Million gold
8 T2 Alpha.
Here is the lowest I would consider to be acceptable:
1 t5cc or a 75% t5cc selector
Generic six star awakening gem or 2 class crystals
2 t5b
20K Six star shards
2.5 million gold
Here is what Kabam will likely give:
25% T5cc crystal
20K Six star shards
1 million gold
1 t5b
Here's what I'm worried Kabam will give:
10 Lvl 4 Revives
Alternatively, I would also accept 10K units as someone else previously offered.
So couldn't you just search for the Specific Flag you gave each account to see if they've done the Act you are planning on reworking and compensate them accordingly?
But I would argue, namely for Act 4 and possibly Act 3 Rewards, you very much may need them. Hell some Cavalier Players may need them to help beat the Grandmaster, for an example any T1 Alpha Catalysts that any of the Buffed Act Rewards could give since taking a 5 Star from Rank 4 to Rank 5 still Requires 6 T1 Alpha alone and Even More for each previous Rank Up that you may need to use on a certain champion to help you beat that Grandmaster or Collector Fight. That's just T1 Alpha as an Example too, not even counting any T4 Basic Catalysts, Rank Up Gems, Iso, T2 Alpha, Gold, T4 Class Catalysts, Signature Stones or anything else y'all could possibly add to those Acts that still effect mid-endgame players.
Some people think that progress ladder can end at Act 5, and Act 6 and Book 2 and beyond can be for the genuinely high skilled players. I don't agree. There should be a path into the future for everyone, or at least a reasonable majority of them. The story arc content should be that path, and that means we can't just tell everyone to git gud and plow through Act 6, and on through Book 2. The path to get through Act 6 must be reasonable, and while that is a subjective statement, I believe that it shouldn't be a quantum leap harder than Act 5. It should be incrementally harder, perhaps, but also something that, like Act 5, if you can't beat it you can try to build up stronger roster to eventually make it easier.
Act 5 can be "outleveled" and done by people will less still, less time, slower hands, cheaper phones. Act 6 can't be, and in its current form cannot ever be by any conceivable roster that will likely be possible in the foreseeable future, because Act 6 is already tuned to require strong teams of 5* max rank champs and significantly above average skill, and Kabam also applied diminishing returns on 6* rank up power which makes them unable to provide the outleveing path that 5* champs did for Act 5.
I can't "prove" Act 6 is too hard: that's a matter of opinion. But I can say as someone who's already gotten past the Champion and still doing paths in Act 6 myself that I would rather the game I play be one that is inclusive of a wide range of players while still providing top tier challenges for the absolute strongest of us. Having a range of content - Story Arc for progressing players, Variants for those that want to be challenged, and Endgame Abyss-like and Maze-like aspirational content to test the absolute best of us, is what I want the game I play to be.
This game is not a competitive game. This game is a game with competitive elements in it. The whole of the game shouldn't be dominated by one type of player's personal preferences.
However, regarding compensation my skepticism compels me to share my experience.
I'm missing 3 paths to 100% Act6, having interrupted exploration a few weeks ago trying to save units for the 4th of July deals.
I always explored most end content with minimal costs, relying mostly on skill and strategy. However, the design of 6.2, 6.3 and specially 6.4 forced me to spend an astronomical amount of resources.
I had to explore 6.4 without a quake or ghost. I don't have them despite having 108 5star champs (some naturally duped to 200), and it made no sense waiting for a quake to complete important content. I haven't gotten one in more than 5 years playing the game and frankly, it might not ever happen.
Exploring 6.4 without a quake was simply an exercise in spending resources.
I'm not even going to speak about all the mixes of nodes you have to deal with, bound to 15k attack values, for which there were no good counters besides quake. I mean, p.e. if bane switched during the opponent's special animation I was pretty much death on those seconds.
I'll just refer the blocking damage and the amount of unavoidable passive debuff damage which were bound to those 15k attack values. Most of those could be ignored by quake or even ghost players.
Reducing the attack values to less than half of their original values, will make this content content manageable and approachable by a vast array of champions, not only quake or ghost. And will make it possible to be explored with minimal costs.
Underestimating, I spent about 40K units and several hundreds of saved potions exploring 6.2, 6.3 and 6.4. The amount of arena grind I had to do for units spent on 6.4 led to the greatest burnout this game ever gave me.
At the moment I don't have enough resources to try to complete my first path of the Abyss neither units for the 4th of July unit deals, they were all burnt on Act6.
I hope you take all this into consideration while calculation Act6 compensations.
Compensation can't be based on what everyone spent to do it, because that's saying the more someone spent, the less skillfully they completed it, the more they deserve to be rewarded for that. That's simply illogical.
On Act 6. Compensation for Act 6 should be flagged to completion and exploration per quest. Completion being a little, maybe more in the case of 6.2.6.
This is content that is temporary and going away. Heck, throw units and revives at us and wipe our progress. We can do the nerfed ones and get the rewards again.
Also, if they do give a huge boost in rewards, then removing the 15k shards from Abyss is completely unfair.