This is a screenshot of Civil Warrior's awakened ability but I'm not asking about him, just a general question about these types of +x% abilities.
So when there is a potency increase in something (say +30%) is it 1.3x the original value (so like 20% x 1.3 = 26%) or the original value plus a flat 30% (so like 20% + 30% = 50%). This is the perfect thread for me to ask this question.
The devs have stated in the past that in general percentage bonuses stack with each other, or alternatively they all operate on the base.
In other words, if you have a stat with base value 1000 and there's an effect that increases that by 20%, and another one that increases that same stat by 30%, the net value is Base * (100% + buff1 + buff2) = 1000 * (100% + 20% + 30%) = 1000 * (1 + 0.2 + 0.3) = 1000 * (1.5) = 1500.
Or if you prefer: Base + Base * Buff1 + Base * Buff2 = 1000 + 1000*20% + 1000*30% = 1000 + 1000 * 0.2 + 1000 * 0.3 = 1000 + 200 + 300 = 1500.
Two different ways to describe the same idea. Buffs operate on the thing being buffed, but don't generally amplify each other.
While not bonuses ,why is posion heal reduction stacks multiplicative?
First, I think poison *stacks* additively, as in the 30% reduction adds up with multiple stacks of poison. So two stacks of poison is -30% -30% = -60%, not 0.7 * 0.7 = 49% (i.e. -51%). But I think you mean why poison affects all of your healing combined, in other words the net effect of poison is to take all of your healing bonuses and apply to *net* healing not *base* healing. And I think that's just because of what you said: poison's effect on healing isn't considered a "heal debuff" it is something else unique to it, and thus it applies to all heal not base heal. Sort of like how heal block is not a -100% heal, it is a special binary effect that blocks the effects of healing, it doesn't (attempt to) reduce the strength of healing to zero.
One step further back, why would the devs do this? I think, and this is just a guess, this is a legacy from when healing was much stronger, and operated differently in the game. Healing originally operated on current max health, not original base health, which meant max health buffs would indirectly boost healing, which could make healing very powerful (especially given how health boosts are a common way to make the AI harder to kill, and also common for the players to acquire). They wanted poison to be a credible threat to healing even when healing was buffed, so poison operated on actual healing, not as a base modifier to healing.
Just to confirm I understand you correctly, if the ticks are healing me for 100 then one poison bring me down to 70. The next posion bring me down to 40 or 49?
It should be 40. I haven't looked at this in ages, but I'm pretty sure poison can shut down healing. Multiplicative stacking can't do that (healing would just get smaller and smaller). If you've seen it work the other way, let me know so I can take a closer look, because that's not how I recall it working.
I don't think so bc iBom still heals from willpower with lots of poison on him it's just reduced greatly. I'll double check real quick to be sure
Even with 6 poison on himself he's still getting willpower healing.
he’s not a good example tho since the heating reduction from poison isn’t as much on iAbom
This is a screenshot of Civil Warrior's awakened ability but I'm not asking about him, just a general question about these types of +x% abilities.
So when there is a potency increase in something (say +30%) is it 1.3x the original value (so like 20% x 1.3 = 26%) or the original value plus a flat 30% (so like 20% + 30% = 50%). This is the perfect thread for me to ask this question.
The devs have stated in the past that in general percentage bonuses stack with each other, or alternatively they all operate on the base.
In other words, if you have a stat with base value 1000 and there's an effect that increases that by 20%, and another one that increases that same stat by 30%, the net value is Base * (100% + buff1 + buff2) = 1000 * (100% + 20% + 30%) = 1000 * (1 + 0.2 + 0.3) = 1000 * (1.5) = 1500.
Or if you prefer: Base + Base * Buff1 + Base * Buff2 = 1000 + 1000*20% + 1000*30% = 1000 + 1000 * 0.2 + 1000 * 0.3 = 1000 + 200 + 300 = 1500.
Two different ways to describe the same idea. Buffs operate on the thing being buffed, but don't generally amplify each other.
While not bonuses ,why is posion heal reduction stacks multiplicative?
First, I think poison *stacks* additively, as in the 30% reduction adds up with multiple stacks of poison. So two stacks of poison is -30% -30% = -60%, not 0.7 * 0.7 = 49% (i.e. -51%). But I think you mean why poison affects all of your healing combined, in other words the net effect of poison is to take all of your healing bonuses and apply to *net* healing not *base* healing. And I think that's just because of what you said: poison's effect on healing isn't considered a "heal debuff" it is something else unique to it, and thus it applies to all heal not base heal. Sort of like how heal block is not a -100% heal, it is a special binary effect that blocks the effects of healing, it doesn't (attempt to) reduce the strength of healing to zero.
One step further back, why would the devs do this? I think, and this is just a guess, this is a legacy from when healing was much stronger, and operated differently in the game. Healing originally operated on current max health, not original base health, which meant max health buffs would indirectly boost healing, which could make healing very powerful (especially given how health boosts are a common way to make the AI harder to kill, and also common for the players to acquire). They wanted poison to be a credible threat to healing even when healing was buffed, so poison operated on actual healing, not as a base modifier to healing.
Just to confirm I understand you correctly, if the ticks are healing me for 100 then one poison bring me down to 70. The next posion bring me down to 40 or 49?
It should be 40. I haven't looked at this in ages, but I'm pretty sure poison can shut down healing. Multiplicative stacking can't do that (healing would just get smaller and smaller). If you've seen it work the other way, let me know so I can take a closer look, because that's not how I recall it working.
I don't think so bc iBom still heals from willpower with lots of poison on him it's just reduced greatly. I'll double check real quick to be sure
Even with 6 poison on himself he's still getting willpower healing.
he’s not a good example tho since the heating reduction from poison isn’t as much on iAbom
He was still healing at 9. Even with a 50% reduction that would shut it down completely if it worked as stated
This is a screenshot of Civil Warrior's awakened ability but I'm not asking about him, just a general question about these types of +x% abilities.
So when there is a potency increase in something (say +30%) is it 1.3x the original value (so like 20% x 1.3 = 26%) or the original value plus a flat 30% (so like 20% + 30% = 50%). This is the perfect thread for me to ask this question.
The devs have stated in the past that in general percentage bonuses stack with each other, or alternatively they all operate on the base.
In other words, if you have a stat with base value 1000 and there's an effect that increases that by 20%, and another one that increases that same stat by 30%, the net value is Base * (100% + buff1 + buff2) = 1000 * (100% + 20% + 30%) = 1000 * (1 + 0.2 + 0.3) = 1000 * (1.5) = 1500.
Or if you prefer: Base + Base * Buff1 + Base * Buff2 = 1000 + 1000*20% + 1000*30% = 1000 + 1000 * 0.2 + 1000 * 0.3 = 1000 + 200 + 300 = 1500.
Two different ways to describe the same idea. Buffs operate on the thing being buffed, but don't generally amplify each other.
(CSQ) I'm trying to learn about other champ's abilities, so if my comments seem harmful, or downright dumb, I do apologize.
What makes Sentinel so valuable? I see he has a lot of value in V3, but otherwise, I can't find the real Hype people have for him. I see Seatin thinks he's better than Guardian, and people on the forums consider Sentinel better than Guillotine 2099. So I wonder what traits make him great? Thank you to all in advance
I’d like to think I’m a decent person to answer this question
He’s double immune, has an easy access to a heal block (note that this isn’t passive like Warlock) and a decent amount of armor breaks on the sp1. Once at 100 analysis charges the debuffs last for a decent amount of time.
The shock he gets off the heavy is a nice bonus, and the sp2 incinerates deal a meaty amount of damage. His sp3 regen also allows for survivability, and the general damage when at 100 charges is nothing to sneeze at.
Is he better than Guardian? That’s debatable. Do I find him fun? Yes.
Go to 50:25. Healing reduction from poisons is subject to diminishing returns.
Interesting. Will investigate further.
So short answer: poison is in fact multiplicative. First stack of poison reduces healing to 70%, next reduced that by 70%, or 49% total, and so on. Also, I'm told weakness works this way as well, as you can't stack weakness to the point where someone's attack value goes negative. There might be others. So the stacking rule I mentioned is the correct one for most stats, but for some stats and effects multiplicative stacking (ala poison's effect on healing) happens. I'll keep at it to see if I can get more definitive lists of which is which.
(CSQ) I'm trying to learn about other champ's abilities, so if my comments seem harmful, or downright dumb, I do apologize.
What makes Sentinel so valuable? I see he has a lot of value in V3, but otherwise, I can't find the real Hype people have for him. I see Seatin thinks he's better than Guardian, and people on the forums consider Sentinel better than Guillotine 2099. So I wonder what traits make him great? Thank you to all in advance
I’d like to think I’m a decent person to answer this question
He’s double immune, has an easy access to a heal block (note that this isn’t passive like Warlock) and a decent amount of armor breaks on the sp1. Once at 100 analysis charges the debuffs last for a decent amount of time.
The shock he gets off the heavy is a nice bonus, and the sp2 incinerates deal a meaty amount of damage. His sp3 regen also allows for survivability, and the general damage when at 100 charges is nothing to sneeze at.
Is he better than Guardian? That’s debatable. Do I find him fun? Yes.
In comparison to Guardian, that doesn't seem like as huge a resume that would make me even consider him above. I have a weird quirky sense of liking champions, so the fun part may be a bit off. The regen, incinerates, and armor break/heal block seem a bit harder to obtain since they are all activated on different specials, so what does it look like on your r4? Or another person's r2 6*/r5 5*? I'm really not liking his damage overall based on some a clip I saw of Swedeah using him for 6.2 Mordo, so I need more visuals.
Off of my 4*, nothing special. Ya know the 5 techs who I'd prefer over him, but I could change my mind
I think Sentinel’s damage against would naturally be lower since his damage comes from incinerates mainly and Mordo gets insane resistance when he’s holding block. I remember Doom’s double fury sp2 incinerates melting him and suddenly not doing any damage once Mordo started holding block
(CSQ) (somewhat OOC?) Red Guardian has a synergy with OR which makes him take 50% less damage from attacks when he's at full shield charge. Does this stack with 5*s sp3 protection bar of 12-20%, potentially allowing him to be a sp3 tanker?
Sometimes with 5 and 6 stars after you activate the special, the extra bar for more damage has a wider green and yellow target. Does anyone know the specifics of when it occurs? As in, if you have a 5 star r4 and the opponent 5* r3, will you have more chance to hit the attack bonus?
the more favored the fight is for you, the larger the bar is
Short answer: a passive ability is an ability that is always on.
It is important to distinguish "abilities" from "effects." Let's take Colossus. His signature ability is an ability: "The Mighty Colossus!" This ability is a passive ability. That means it is always on. He has another ability where if his ability accuracy is lowered below 100% he gains +100% combat power rate. This ability is not passive: it is triggered when ability accuracy is debuffed. Special attacks are all abilities that are triggered when the player activates the attack.
When Colossus executes a well-timed block, he has a 100% chance to gain an Armor Up Buff. This is also an ability, triggered by well-timed block. When this ability activates, Colossus gains an effect. This effect is an Armor Up Buff. Effects can be Buffs, they can be Debuffs, they can be Passives. "Buff," "Debuff," and "Passive" are types of effects. They are basically like colors. Every effect can have at most one color. It can be "Buff colored" or it can be "Passive colored". It cannot be "Passive Buff colored."
In and of itself, there's no difference between Passive effects and Buff effects: they both affect the champion in the same way. The difference is in what affects those effects. If something affects Buffs it will affect Buff colored effects, but not Passive colored effects. Since lots of things affect Buffs but almost nothing affects Passives, Passive effects are seen as behaving "differently." But it isn't those effects that are behaving differently, it is really everything else that treats them differently.
So a Passive Ability is an Ability that is always on. The opposite, by the way, is not "Active Ability." That's an ability that is currently on. In other words, Passive Abilities are always Active. Non-Passive Abilities are only sometimes Active.
Passive Effects are a totally different thing. Passive Effects are Effects with the Passive tag. Because this tag is exclusive of the Buff and Debuff tags, Passive Effects cannot be Buffs. Therefore, things that affect Buffs or reference Buffs do not affect Passive Effects. Not because they are Passive, but because they are not Buffs.
When Colossus activates SP3, the SP3 ability Activates a Passive Fatigue on the opponent. This Passive Fatigue remains Active Indefinitely (it doesn't expire on a timer). If the opponent has the Ability to shake off Debuffs, this will have no effect on this Passive Fatigue because the Passive Fatigue Effect cannot be a Debuff, because it has the Passive tag, and effects can only have one of those tags. We know it is a Passive, so we know it is missing the Debuff tag. So an ability that can shake off effects with the Debuff tag won't work on this Effect.
yeah its important to maintain a distinction between passive effects and abilities. I know pretty well what they each mean and got lost for a sec there lol
@Etjama no idea but I think you're doing something right. You're apparently a genius, have met me at some point in your life (always a plus), and are mega hot 😍
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Go to 50:25. Healing reduction from poisons is subject to diminishing returns.
Does the help button ever actually lessen refresh time on arena champs? If yes, how do
(GGP)
He’s double immune, has an easy access to a heal block (note that this isn’t passive like Warlock) and a decent amount of armor breaks on the sp1. Once at 100 analysis charges the debuffs last for a decent amount of time.
The shock he gets off the heavy is a nice bonus, and the sp2 incinerates deal a meaty amount of damage. His sp3 regen also allows for survivability, and the general damage when at 100 charges is nothing to sneeze at.
Is he better than Guardian? That’s debatable. Do I find him fun? Yes.
Recent discussion for me with option to remove posts from Alliance recruitment section.
Red Guardian has a synergy with OR which makes him take 50% less damage from attacks when he's at full shield charge. Does this stack with 5*s sp3 protection bar of 12-20%, potentially allowing him to be a sp3 tanker?
How do I play ronin I really think he can help my roster and take down act 6 any tips @Masterpuff
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