CGR has really underrated utility ngl. People just ignore his sig and play him for the big numbers. I love his power lock/heal block, great for mephisto matchups, and that armor break being applied indefinitely on villains is great for killmonger matchups. Can also counter miss, not quite as well as most champs, but it’s there and it’s decent. Bleed and incinerate immunity to go with it. Great damage and a decent kit to go with it.
Thank god, I felt like I was going mad. You do have a group of players drooling over just his damage, and if he was just that then yeah I’d agree he was overrated. That’s why I don’t rate Hela very highly.
But his kit is really underrated and useful, completely agree.
Here’s my moment for disagrees. Hyperion is only considered the best cosmic for the nostalgia factor. If you released Hyperion and any of Herc, CGR or Corvus in the same month today, I really believe you would not consider Hyperion the best champion.
In the past he could do so much that we required him to do, we weren’t as good at intercepting so his power gain was great, we needed damage so that was great, his secondary source of damage from sp1 was nice. But nowadays he simply doesn’t cut it. We can intercept better and play more reliably without the need for specials to intercept, we have more damage, we have other ways to get secondary damage.
He’s awesome, and it’s a testament to how good he is that he’s still in the conversation at all. But he is not as good as Cosmic champions who came after him, and people are hanging on to the notion that Hyp is the best based on using him to get through act 4, 5 and 6 in the day. We have better champs now
I usually don't disagree with steel, but have hype as a maxed out 5 star and also cgr, trust me when i say hype's put in WORK in act 7 for me, and idk about others but intercepting with hype feels so much easier than any other champions. his passive power gain is in comparison to no other champ in this game and it gets you through all the situations, on top of that he has poison immunity which i understand isnt much useful, but it's something. and have you ever used him in incursions? he's the most fun champ in the entire game once you get a few hacks like buff cornucopia and fury enhancement and what not. I've personally played incursions with hype, cgr and corvus and let me tell you, hype beats all of them, yes even corvus, in incursions.
Not only that, he's sooo useful in variant content, an absolute cheese in the final chapter of the recent variant with the increased ability accuracy and perma stuns on sp2. He's the best option for it and no one can tell me otherwise.
ON TOP OF THIS, hype's got one of the best regen mechanics which is sooo easily accessible and puts in work for some potion use.
annnnnnd he has the best sig scaling in the entire game which is one of the most underrated things about him, from 0-20 makes a world of difference and from 20-200 does absolutely nothing.
plus he fits in any team anywhere and does not require synergies, really annoying defender on certain nodes as well.
I've chased cgr for so long and when i finally got him, i rank 5'd him, but i still found myself using hype in places more than him. and yes i did practice a lot with cgr and got his massive damage rotations in control.
honestly i wanna stop but there are so many things coming to mind. ok one last- hype has an easy playstyle unlike cgr and he's so stressfree to play too, since there isn't any sort of cap on his furies or power gain, unlike the 20 charges on corvus which i really dont like.
He even dominated summer of pain rogue for a lot of players.
In conclusion:- yes maybe hype isnt the best cosmic in the game, but to say all the champs that came after him is better is extremely debatable. but he is and will be proving his worth in the future and will surely never be a forgotten champion.
Thanks for sharing your points! So I have a few things I wanna address from here
Firstly, I wouldn't say Act 7 is the best test of how good a champion is. There's so many fun interesting nodes, that it really throws around the order of how useful champions are. The Class boosts are powerful, the tag boosts too, so for the most part I don't think act 7 can be used to justify the "best" champ.
What situations exactly does passive power gain get you through that CGR can't do? I can only really think of one, being unblockable. Hyp does have a very strong power gain and should you encounter a situation where the opponent is unblockable, sure, Hyperion is better than CGR. But how often does that really happen? And is that niche scenario enough to justify Hyperion being better than CGR? A few nodes off the top of my head that cause the opponent to go fully unblockable, Aspect of War, Steady build up unblockable, unblockable finale. Aspect of War, yeah I mean I suppose Hyp is better, but why would you ever really go, oh I'm gonna bring hyp for this fight instead of a slow champion? Just to prove CGR is worse? I'm not so sure anyone would. Steady Build up is aimed at skill champions to purify them, and CGR can get around unblockable finale with his massive damage, sure there may be a niche scenario where the damage is capped, but that'll be such a small percentage of fights that it's not enough to say CGR is worse.
Poison immunity? Useful, sure, but bleed and incinerate are more useful together than poison alone. I'd argue just bleed is more useful but that's a separate debate.
So I feel very strongly about not using incursions to justify how good a champion is, there is so much in that game mode that breaks champions and causes certain interactions to go wild. Civil Warrior is a beast in incursions, so is annihulus, Aarkus, MS etc, and while these champions may be good or bad outside of incursions you can't use one game mode that has little bearing on the rest of the game to justify a champion being the top of their class. It's essentially a different game, with different champion abilities.
Variant content, sure, Hyp is ok, but you're talking about 1 of 7 variants with the increased AA, not exactly a slam dunk.
Hyperion does have a fantastic regen mechanic at the loss of power gain for 45 seconds. It's an ok trade off for sure, and it's a beefy regen, but I'd argue that CGR's block proficiency being higher than Doom means for a lot of match ups you'll have more health than Hyp. Plus, Hyp has a parry heavy playstyle which can sometimes lead to block damage. With unavoidable damage, yeah Hyp has CGR beat on sustainability, but I'm not sure that's enough.
Sig scaling, would you say Hype's sig scaling is better than CGR's scaling of... um... 1?
Cgr also fits in anywhere on a team and doesn't require synergies.
Eh, CGR having a hard playstyle is subjective. I find it very easy to cycle judgements. And I'm not sure having an easy playstyle makes a champion the best in the class, the two best champions in the game are widely both considered the two hardest to play. So CGR being hard to play shouldn't stop him being the best cosmic.
I agree with your conclusion, it is debatable, but we are having that debate now. Hyperion is and always will be a top cosmic champion, he will always have value, but he can't be top forever with the champions coming out, and I would argue he's already lost his crown. If you disagree, please be my guest and put forward your own points, I actually love hearing why people think he is the best instead of, CGR fans are toxic, you don't understand Hyperion etc that some people like to say instead of actually addressing what I've said.
fair, i do understand your point, and yes cgr's bp is really handy in plenty of situations, and yes then there is also the vigilance to counter miss and stuff so yeah he does win on that case. my point is not that hype is better than cgr, ok maybe it was, but the thing with the crown of best cosmic champion is really difficult to place on the head of one champ. Venom, although not being bgt, has many many many uses ingame, so he wins on that court angela has the most broken sig ability imo, but she doesnt hit that hard hyperion is yes, everything you mentioned above cgr's playstyle is pretty stressful at first but the trade is worth it corvus, i just dont like him, the limit to 20 hits charges is really really stressful for me, if it's okay with others then good for them! plus i dont run suicides herc, pretty new so wouldnt say much yet but that awakened ability is quite nice hela with the odin synergy is literally the hardest hitting champion in the entire game as of now.
So to give a champion of the best cosmic title is really really difficult since this class has so many great top 10's
Other than that. i dont disagree with anything else you said, you did put forward many great points. if you have anything to disagree with, be my guest.
That’s fair enough, if your opinion is that there is no best one cosmic champion that’s of course an absolutely fine take to have!
Thank you for sharing your points I really enjoyed hearing your side of it
@walkerdog i get your point, I really do. Hyperion does do a lot of damage, but there is no scenario he gets close to CGR. CGR has very sustainable, easy to use, non-boosted damage.
Take a look at the first 30 seconds of this vid. As the thumbnail says, 1.4m damage in 30 seconds. Hyperion is good, but can you seriously say that he could do that?
Here’s my moment for disagrees. Hyperion is only considered the best cosmic for the nostalgia factor. If you released Hyperion and any of Herc, CGR or Corvus in the same month today, I really believe you would not consider Hyperion the best champion.
In the past he could do so much that we required him to do, we weren’t as good at intercepting so his power gain was great, we needed damage so that was great, his secondary source of damage from sp1 was nice. But nowadays he simply doesn’t cut it. We can intercept better and play more reliably without the need for specials to intercept, we have more damage, we have other ways to get secondary damage.
He’s awesome, and it’s a testament to how good he is that he’s still in the conversation at all. But he is not as good as Cosmic champions who came after him, and people are hanging on to the notion that Hyp is the best based on using him to get through act 4, 5 and 6 in the day. We have better champs now
I think hes pretty easily the best bc the other contenders have to do a few things to be on even ground. CG can't touch him without the combination of a higher rarity and suicides, Cgr is close but struggles when he can't 5hit combos or has to deal with AAR, and Herc needs suicides it seems like. Hes early enough that I won't say for certain that hes not better, but there's a pretty good reason hype and quake probably won't get a 6* anytime soon. Maybe that's just kabam being overly cautious but...
Why are you saying that without higher rarity/suicides CGR isn't better? Because that seems like you're implying without the extra attack from higher rank and suicides, CGR isn't better than Hyp? He has the same utility as a 6* rank 3, so unless you're saying that CGR's damage isn't enough then I don't think you've got much of a point there. And I'm not sure I've ever seen someone say CGR's damage isn't enough.
Regarding needing 5 hit combos, I'm not actually sure what you're referring to. Do you mean this? https://youtu.be/WhvhPCBwX6w I'm sure you don't mean miss, since every miss (to my knowledge except stun immune tunnel vision, a rather niche combination) in the game can be gotten around with a 5 hit combo. Professor X, G2099, Stryfe, Darkhawk, SuperSkrull etc. Regarding nodes, tunnel vision is shown above, Missing in action (any time defender buff ends there's a timer then falter), if you'd like to point out more miss nodes or champions I'd be happy to explain how CGR can deal with them.
Or perhaps you're referring to evade, since it could screw him up. But I know you wouldn't be using that as your point, it's not like Hyperion is an evade counter. Using Evade as your reason Hyp is better would be pretty weak.
Maybe you mean Autoblock, could be annoying there. Except when you consider it, 4 of the 8 auto blockers need buffs or armour to do so, and CGR is very proficient at countering them. Nova, Heimdall, Medusa, IMIW. CGR handles them all easily. You're left with Darkhawk (easy to handle, push to sp2 and use vigilance buff to counter/don't knock down except when necessary), MODOK (bad match up admittedly), overseer (we haven't seen enough of him yet to form an accurate opinion on defence) and Thor Rags (no counter needed). So of the 8 autoblock champions, CGR hard counters 4, can deal with 2, 1 is undetermined and 1 is a bad matchup. Regardless, I don't think you mean autoblock, since CGR can deal with it better than Hyperion, who can't deal with Nova, Heimdall, Medusa or MODOK, and not as well for IMIW, with 1 armour break per SP2, and CGR gets more armour breaks, more often.
So how exactly, can CGR's combo be interrupted in a meaningful scenario
Since you say Hype not being released as a 6* is proof that he's "too good", I wonder if you'd make the same case for Blade, Wolverine, Ghost Rider, Dr Voodoo, Magik and Scarlet Witch? Are they all too good to be released as 6*? Cause it seems like you're using one fact to suit your opinion, rather than using the full picture to form your opinion.
The other ones that haven't been 6* all have enormormous healing capability or were the two best/most broken mystics for a long time that they haven't gotten around to releasing as 6*.
Oh wait I forgot hype has a nice heal, maybe thats just it.
Also I do not have any interest in going thru all that work to 5hit with cgr. I do understand that for you those challenges are fun, but thats a lot more effort than id want to go thru for those fights. Hype doesn't counter evade but barring the last hit of heavies, he can do evade fights with sp1 as backup for when they evade just fine.
I like my cgr a lot but I still use hype more im pretty sure. Its certainly good that we have more contenders for top cosmic than "hype or CG with suicides" like
@walkerdog What work to 5hit do you have to go through? what do you mean? Do you mean parry, LLMLM? That’s not effort , that’s a work around to counter content. It’s a different way to play to counter nodes
How does Hyperion counter tunnel vision?
Again, “effort” to use a champion does not take anything away from how good they are. Would you agree that quake is the best champion in the game? Because she takes effort to use.
So are you saying that because Hyperion can deal with evade by having a special ready, and because you don’t want to 5 hit combo with CGR, that’s enough to mean he’s the best cosmic?
What actual points are there that you have, for why Hyperion is better than CGR
And there it is, that's all it comes down to. If that's enough to make a top champion compared to the proven large amount of utility CGR has, the immense damage (not similar damage), then that explains why some of the community is stuck on Hyperion being the best.
It might be plus the devastatingly simple playstyle - we like getting buffs, we like heavy parry (I dont know why I always think if that phrase in a backwards order), we like throwing specials and stunlocking, etc.
Cgr is really fantastic tho. I'll see if I cant figure out some new ways to play him from your bids. I'm not discounting your opinion/viewpoint on this, I just kind of fall back on him being a 5* thats even sort of competitive with 6* is kind of insane.
Here’s my moment for disagrees. Hyperion is only considered the best cosmic for the nostalgia factor. If you released Hyperion and any of Herc, CGR or Corvus in the same month today, I really believe you would not consider Hyperion the best champion.
In the past he could do so much that we required him to do, we weren’t as good at intercepting so his power gain was great, we needed damage so that was great, his secondary source of damage from sp1 was nice. But nowadays he simply doesn’t cut it. We can intercept better and play more reliably without the need for specials to intercept, we have more damage, we have other ways to get secondary damage.
He’s awesome, and it’s a testament to how good he is that he’s still in the conversation at all. But he is not as good as Cosmic champions who came after him, and people are hanging on to the notion that Hyp is the best based on using him to get through act 4, 5 and 6 in the day. We have better champs now
I think hes pretty easily the best bc the other contenders have to do a few things to be on even ground. CG can't touch him without the combination of a higher rarity and suicides, Cgr is close but struggles when he can't 5hit combos or has to deal with AAR, and Herc needs suicides it seems like. Hes early enough that I won't say for certain that hes not better, but there's a pretty good reason hype and quake probably won't get a 6* anytime soon. Maybe that's just kabam being overly cautious but...
Why are you saying that without higher rarity/suicides CGR isn't better? Because that seems like you're implying without the extra attack from higher rank and suicides, CGR isn't better than Hyp? He has the same utility as a 6* rank 3, so unless you're saying that CGR's damage isn't enough then I don't think you've got much of a point there. And I'm not sure I've ever seen someone say CGR's damage isn't enough.
Regarding needing 5 hit combos, I'm not actually sure what you're referring to. Do you mean this? https://youtu.be/WhvhPCBwX6w I'm sure you don't mean miss, since every miss (to my knowledge except stun immune tunnel vision, a rather niche combination) in the game can be gotten around with a 5 hit combo. Professor X, G2099, Stryfe, Darkhawk, SuperSkrull etc. Regarding nodes, tunnel vision is shown above, Missing in action (any time defender buff ends there's a timer then falter), if you'd like to point out more miss nodes or champions I'd be happy to explain how CGR can deal with them.
Or perhaps you're referring to evade, since it could screw him up. But I know you wouldn't be using that as your point, it's not like Hyperion is an evade counter. Using Evade as your reason Hyp is better would be pretty weak.
Maybe you mean Autoblock, could be annoying there. Except when you consider it, 4 of the 8 auto blockers need buffs or armour to do so, and CGR is very proficient at countering them. Nova, Heimdall, Medusa, IMIW. CGR handles them all easily. You're left with Darkhawk (easy to handle, push to sp2 and use vigilance buff to counter/don't knock down except when necessary), MODOK (bad match up admittedly), overseer (we haven't seen enough of him yet to form an accurate opinion on defence) and Thor Rags (no counter needed). So of the 8 autoblock champions, CGR hard counters 4, can deal with 2, 1 is undetermined and 1 is a bad matchup. Regardless, I don't think you mean autoblock, since CGR can deal with it better than Hyperion, who can't deal with Nova, Heimdall, Medusa or MODOK, and not as well for IMIW, with 1 armour break per SP2, and CGR gets more armour breaks, more often.
So how exactly, can CGR's combo be interrupted in a meaningful scenario
Since you say Hype not being released as a 6* is proof that he's "too good", I wonder if you'd make the same case for Blade, Wolverine, Ghost Rider, Dr Voodoo, Magik and Scarlet Witch? Are they all too good to be released as 6*? Cause it seems like you're using one fact to suit your opinion, rather than using the full picture to form your opinion.
The other ones that haven't been 6* all have enormormous healing capability or were the two best/most broken mystics for a long time that they haven't gotten around to releasing as 6*.
Oh wait I forgot hype has a nice heal, maybe thats just it.
Also I do not have any interest in going thru all that work to 5hit with cgr. I do understand that for you those challenges are fun, but thats a lot more effort than id want to go thru for those fights. Hype doesn't counter evade but barring the last hit of heavies, he can do evade fights with sp1 as backup for when they evade just fine.
I like my cgr a lot but I still use hype more im pretty sure. Its certainly good that we have more contenders for top cosmic than "hype or CG with suicides" like
@walkerdog What work to 5hit do you have to go through? what do you mean? Do you mean parry, LLMLM? That’s not effort , that’s a work around to counter content. It’s a different way to play to counter nodes
How does Hyperion counter tunnel vision?
Again, “effort” to use a champion does not take anything away from how good they are. Would you agree that quake is the best champion in the game? Because she takes effort to use.
So are you saying that because Hyperion can deal with evade by having a special ready, and because you don’t want to 5 hit combo with CGR, that’s enough to mean he’s the best cosmic?
What actual points are there that you have, for why Hyperion is better than CGR
Passive power gain, a heal, and similar damage.
Hyperion's power gain is through a buff and no way their damage is similar.
Yes, when I said passive I dont mean through passive effects, I mean you don't have to do anything (other than not trigger regen I guess) to have it keep coming. And his damage is similar. CGR absolutely spikes higher but hype can keep the high steady damage going for so long, and sometimes just does a few hundred thousand over a series of stunlocks. Like, CG under optimal circumstances also out damages basically everyone but thats not practical for some lanes or nodes, and you can't reasonably expect to use boosts (including cosmic 200%) 100% of the time.
Fair points, Hype's simplicity is one of his biggest selling points and why he can be adapted to do so many different nodes.
Sorry but hype gets my vote, his power gain and easy access to Dot for a cosmic champ is just broken. There is a reason he is not in the 6* pool yet. A 6*r3 Hyperion will be insane as his fury and incinerate damage will benefit immensely from it. One final point hype can constantly generate his buffs even if it gets nullified or removed for some reason. Where all cosmic champs will fail hype will not disappoint.
I said CGR and Hype would be very close in a poll one day, glad to see that CGR really is very good & gives Hype a good run for his money I really do think that Hercules is going to edge them all out though, but not by much And who knows If Kabam do another good job then who knows what will come of Adam Warlock
I said CGR and Hype would be very close in a poll one day, glad to see that CGR really is very good & gives Hype a good run for his money I really do think that Hercules is going to edge them all out though, but not by much And who knows If Kabam do another good job then who knows what will come of Adam Warlock
So this is a very interesting point, at the end of last March I posted a poll on CGR vs Hyperion and 222 votes yielded these results
124 votes for Hyperion, 98 for CGR. For every 1 vote CGR got, Hyp got 1.27.
It was honestly closer than I expected, considering CGR had been out for about 6 months. But today we’ve had 66 for Hyperion and 59 for CGR. For every 1 vote CGR got Hyperion got 1.12. It is slightly changing, obviously this is not evidence enough to prove the opinion is shifting, but it does suggest that. Another slight addendum is that these two polls are different, and the people who voted Hercules today would vote Hyp/CGR and change the results. But we can take it at face value that if you vote for CGR as best cosmic, it’s pretty evident you think he’s better than Hyperion and vice Versa.
What I am very interested to do is in 6 months or so, I’ll love to repeat the CGR vs Hyperion poll and see if 10 months is enough to noticeably shift the result and see if the communities mind has changed on the two
@BitterSteel ive literally already explained my power booster point. I didn’t say anything about boosts not being allowed to be used, but I don’t see how it’s impressive if CGR didn’t even use his “utility” to handle void. You’re supposed to be arguing for his UTILITY not damage. I know his damage is good lol. I used stryfe for the void in the gauntlet, but does that make his utility a good counter to void? No.
I kid you not, the only thing I’ve found impressive thus far has been the Luke cage solo, and that required an extremely skilled player to do so. I admit that’s genuinely cool. Why must I say this again to you? Could you not tell I was impressed the first time or something?
Having debuffs doesn’t make him good for healing. It’s funny that you were arguing against Hyperion before, who also does well against healing due to the amount of incinerates he puts in the opponents. Would I ever resort to him for healing countering? Hell no. My Annihilus is such a good heal counter cuz he places loads of debuffs, yet I’m not seeing him counter much healing, just like CGR. Not impressive.
Also, I literally already said “difficulty is subjective” when I mentioned act 6. Im not seeing him do much actually tricky stuff in act 6, so I’m just not seeing his utility being very useful here.
Abyss ghost and omega are unbelievably easy to deal with. BUT, like I’ve already said, Luke cage was impressive and iron man is for sure a tricky fight. So that’s… 4 out of loads of abyss fights? Half of which are very easy? Meh. I know you’ll probably say “yeah but Luke and iron man are difficult”, but does that really make him super valuable for the abyss? No.
It’s all well and good basically saying “ why don’t you agree with me that he has utility”. Hmmmm… let’s think why… ah yes it’s because I’m not impressed perhaps? What? Do you want me to say “wow bittersteel, I really agree with you now that you’ve given me arguments I should be impressed by”. Nope. That’s not how arguments work. Luke was cool. Thanks for showing me he’s good for one fight I didn’t know he would so good for so far.
@ BitterSteel ive literally already explained my power booster point. I didn’t say anything about boosts not being allowed to be used, but I don’t see how it’s impressive if CGR didn’t even use his “utility” to handle void. You’re supposed to be arguing for his UTILITY not damage. I know his damage is good lol. I used stryfe for the void in the gauntlet, but does that make his utility a good counter to void? No.
I kid you not, the only thing I’ve found impressive thus far has been the Luke cage solo, and that required an extremely skilled player to do so. I admit that’s genuinely cool. Why must I say this again to you? Could you not tell I was impressed the first time or something?
Having debuffs doesn’t make him good for healing. It’s funny that you were arguing against Hyperion before, who also does well against healing due to the amount of incinerates he puts in the opponents. Would I ever resort to him for healing countering? Hell no. My Annihilus is such a good heal counter cuz he places loads of debuffs, yet I’m not seeing him counter much healing, just like CGR. Not impressive.
Also, I literally already said “difficulty is subjective” when I mentioned act 6. Im not seeing him do much actually tricky stuff in act 6, so I’m just not seeing his utility being very useful here.
Abyss ghost and omega are unbelievably easy to deal with. BUT, like I’ve already said, Luke cage was impressive and iron man is for sure a tricky fight. So that’s… 4 out of loads of abyss fights? Half of which are very easy? Meh. I know you’ll probably say “yeah but Luke and iron man are difficult”, but does that really make him super valuable for the abyss? No.
It’s all well and good basically saying “ why don’t you agree with me that he has utility”. Hmmmm… let’s think why… ah yes it’s because I’m not impressed perhaps? What? Do you want me to say “wow bittersteel, I really agree with you now that you’ve given me arguments I should be impressed by”. Nope. That’s not how arguments work. Luke was cool. Thanks for showing me he’s good for one fight I didn’t know he would so good for so far.
CGR's damage is pretty much utility given how much he has of it. But ignoring that, you haven't given any good counter-points to why those fights don't showcase his utility apart from "I'm not impressed" which is a nonsensical counter-point.
@BitterSteel ive literally already explained my power booster point. I didn’t say anything about boosts not being allowed to be used, but I don’t see how it’s impressive if CGR didn’t even use his “utility” to handle void. You’re supposed to be arguing for his UTILITY not damage. I know his damage is good lol. I used stryfe for the void in the gauntlet, but does that make his utility a good counter to void? No.
I kid you not, the only thing I’ve found impressive thus far has been the Luke cage solo, and that required an extremely skilled player to do so. I admit that’s genuinely cool. Why must I say this again to you? Could you not tell I was impressed the first time or something?
Having debuffs doesn’t make him good for healing. It’s funny that you were arguing against Hyperion before, who also does well against healing due to the amount of incinerates he puts in the opponents. Would I ever resort to him for healing countering? Hell no. My Annihilus is such a good heal counter cuz he places loads of debuffs, yet I’m not seeing him counter much healing, just like CGR. Not impressive.
Also, I literally already said “difficulty is subjective” when I mentioned act 6. Im not seeing him do much actually tricky stuff in act 6, so I’m just not seeing his utility being very useful here.
Abyss ghost and omega are unbelievably easy to deal with. BUT, like I’ve already said, Luke cage was impressive and iron man is for sure a tricky fight. So that’s… 4 out of loads of abyss fights? Half of which are very easy? Meh. I know you’ll probably say “yeah but Luke and iron man are difficult”, but does that really make him super valuable for the abyss? No.
It’s all well and good basically saying “ why don’t you agree with me that he has utility”. Hmmmm… let’s think why… ah yes it’s because I’m not impressed perhaps? What? Do you want me to say “wow bittersteel, I really agree with you now that you’ve given me arguments I should be impressed by”. Nope. That’s not how arguments work. Luke was cool. Thanks for showing me he’s good for one fight I didn’t know he would so good for so far.
If he finishes a fight before the opponent can do anything, then that should count as “utility”. For act 4 exploration all I had to do MLLLL, throw an SP1 and they’re dead. For the exploration of an act 5 quest, I did MLLLL (I had the GR synergy), then MLLLM, then I heavy charged into SP2 and they’re already dead.
@BitterSteel ive literally already explained my power booster point. I didn’t say anything about boosts not being allowed to be used, but I don’t see how it’s impressive if CGR didn’t even use his “utility” to handle void. You’re supposed to be arguing for his UTILITY not damage. I know his damage is good lol. I used stryfe for the void in the gauntlet, but does that make his utility a good counter to void? No.
I kid you not, the only thing I’ve found impressive thus far has been the Luke cage solo, and that required an extremely skilled player to do so. I admit that’s genuinely cool. Why must I say this again to you? Could you not tell I was impressed the first time or something?
Having debuffs doesn’t make him good for healing. It’s funny that you were arguing against Hyperion before, who also does well against healing due to the amount of incinerates he puts in the opponents. Would I ever resort to him for healing countering? Hell no. My Annihilus is such a good heal counter cuz he places loads of debuffs, yet I’m not seeing him counter much healing, just like CGR. Not impressive.
Also, I literally already said “difficulty is subjective” when I mentioned act 6. Im not seeing him do much actually tricky stuff in act 6, so I’m just not seeing his utility being very useful here.
Abyss ghost and omega are unbelievably easy to deal with. BUT, like I’ve already said, Luke cage was impressive and iron man is for sure a tricky fight. So that’s… 4 out of loads of abyss fights? Half of which are very easy? Meh. I know you’ll probably say “yeah but Luke and iron man are difficult”, but does that really make him super valuable for the abyss? No.
It’s all well and good basically saying “ why don’t you agree with me that he has utility”. Hmmmm… let’s think why… ah yes it’s because I’m not impressed perhaps? What? Do you want me to say “wow bittersteel, I really agree with you now that you’ve given me arguments I should be impressed by”. Nope. That’s not how arguments work. Luke was cool. Thanks for showing me he’s good for one fight I didn’t know he would so good for so far.
If he finishes a fight before the opponent can do anything, then that should count as “utility”. For act 4 exploration all I had to do MLLLL, throw an SP1 and they’re dead. For the exploration of an act 5 quest, I did MLLLL (I had the GR synergy), then MLLLM, then I heavy charged into SP2 and they’re already dead.
That's not when damage should be considered a utility. When you have the output to take fights that you would otherwise be locked out of without certain utility then an exception can be made.
An example would acid wash Mysterio, Neither guillotine99, NF or Proxima have access to poison yet they can all solo the fight (even faster than some poison champs). They're damage suitably replaces utility in scenarios like that, same thing for fights like thunderstruck KG where shock is required or Caustic temper sinister without fury
CGR also falls into the same category but not for the reason you listed
@BitterSteel ive literally already explained my power booster point. I didn’t say anything about boosts not being allowed to be used, but I don’t see how it’s impressive if CGR didn’t even use his “utility” to handle void. You’re supposed to be arguing for his UTILITY not damage. I know his damage is good lol. I used stryfe for the void in the gauntlet, but does that make his utility a good counter to void? No.
I kid you not, the only thing I’ve found impressive thus far has been the Luke cage solo, and that required an extremely skilled player to do so. I admit that’s genuinely cool. Why must I say this again to you? Could you not tell I was impressed the first time or something?
Having debuffs doesn’t make him good for healing. It’s funny that you were arguing against Hyperion before, who also does well against healing due to the amount of incinerates he puts in the opponents. Would I ever resort to him for healing countering? Hell no. My Annihilus is such a good heal counter cuz he places loads of debuffs, yet I’m not seeing him counter much healing, just like CGR. Not impressive.
Also, I literally already said “difficulty is subjective” when I mentioned act 6. Im not seeing him do much actually tricky stuff in act 6, so I’m just not seeing his utility being very useful here.
Abyss ghost and omega are unbelievably easy to deal with. BUT, like I’ve already said, Luke cage was impressive and iron man is for sure a tricky fight. So that’s… 4 out of loads of abyss fights? Half of which are very easy? Meh. I know you’ll probably say “yeah but Luke and iron man are difficult”, but does that really make him super valuable for the abyss? No.
It’s all well and good basically saying “ why don’t you agree with me that he has utility”. Hmmmm… let’s think why… ah yes it’s because I’m not impressed perhaps? What? Do you want me to say “wow bittersteel, I really agree with you now that you’ve given me arguments I should be impressed by”. Nope. That’s not how arguments work. Luke was cool. Thanks for showing me he’s good for one fight I didn’t know he would so good for so far.
I’m not actually super bothered about replying to you any more, all of your argument is just wow, I see CGR being used for this end game content/abyss/SoP/Gauntlet/hard fight etc but it’s easy/worthless/not useless. You’re not open to new points of view, you’ve shown no evidence or arguments for CGR not having utility, despite the mountains of situations and evidence I’ve shown.
You make points like “I’ve not seen much abyss gameplay” as if that’s a point against him, then when I show abyss gameplay, you say well it’s not relevant. I ask you what difficult content would you say I can do to show you CGR has utility and you dodge by saying difficulty is subjective, while I’m literally offering you an opportunity to see him to the difficult content. You say he has no miss counter and I offer to show you proof and you blank it, which is just a symptom of your issue here. You don’t want to see proof. You want to just ignore what’s shown to you so you can keep your opinion.
I’m not saying CGR has the most utility in the game ever, and you should all bow down to the utility god. I’m saying your statement that he has no utility except armour break and double immunity is demonstrably and categorically wrong. So feel free to think what you’d like, but you’ve shown me that a debate isn’t worth continuing with you.
@ BitterSteel ive literally already explained my power booster point. I didn’t say anything about boosts not being allowed to be used, but I don’t see how it’s impressive if CGR didn’t even use his “utility” to handle void. You’re supposed to be arguing for his UTILITY not damage. I know his damage is good lol. I used stryfe for the void in the gauntlet, but does that make his utility a good counter to void? No.
I kid you not, the only thing I’ve found impressive thus far has been the Luke cage solo, and that required an extremely skilled player to do so. I admit that’s genuinely cool. Why must I say this again to you? Could you not tell I was impressed the first time or something?
Having debuffs doesn’t make him good for healing. It’s funny that you were arguing against Hyperion before, who also does well against healing due to the amount of incinerates he puts in the opponents. Would I ever resort to him for healing countering? Hell no. My Annihilus is such a good heal counter cuz he places loads of debuffs, yet I’m not seeing him counter much healing, just like CGR. Not impressive.
Also, I literally already said “difficulty is subjective” when I mentioned act 6. Im not seeing him do much actually tricky stuff in act 6, so I’m just not seeing his utility being very useful here.
Abyss ghost and omega are unbelievably easy to deal with. BUT, like I’ve already said, Luke cage was impressive and iron man is for sure a tricky fight. So that’s… 4 out of loads of abyss fights? Half of which are very easy? Meh. I know you’ll probably say “yeah but Luke and iron man are difficult”, but does that really make him super valuable for the abyss? No.
It’s all well and good basically saying “ why don’t you agree with me that he has utility”. Hmmmm… let’s think why… ah yes it’s because I’m not impressed perhaps? What? Do you want me to say “wow bittersteel, I really agree with you now that you’ve given me arguments I should be impressed by”. Nope. That’s not how arguments work. Luke was cool. Thanks for showing me he’s good for one fight I didn’t know he would so good for so far.
CGR's damage is pretty much utility given how much he has of it. But ignoring that, you haven't given any good counter-points to why those fights don't showcase his utility apart from "I'm not impressed" which is a nonsensical counter-point.
Or “well in the hands of a skilled player” like ok, big deal. As if ghost and quake don’t need skill and aren’t considered the top champs in the game because they’re only good in the hands of a skilled player. What ridiculous points
I think that they're all pretty great for different reasons, in different scenarios, in a game with 200+ characters and hundreds of nodes - and arguing about which one is "better" is silly.
I think that they're all pretty great for different reasons, in different scenarios, in a game with 200+ characters and hundreds of nodes - and arguing about which one is "better" is silly.
as soon as hype gets his blue border he will be by far 1 of the best cosmics even as a 5* he holds it down still
Not being a 6* doesn’t stop Hyp being the best cosmic. Quake and ghost are still the best champions in the game even as 5*.
Because that implies damage and health is more important when considering the best champ. The difference between a 5/65 and rank 3 6* is not that much, just around 30% health and attack. So you’re saying that if Hyperion had that extra damage then he would be better than the other cosmics, which doesn’t make sense.
If Hyp was the best cosmic like everyone says, he would still be the best cosmic regardless of star level. Because he would just be that good.
as soon as hype gets his blue border he will be by far 1 of the best cosmics even as a 5* he holds it down still
Not being a 6* doesn’t stop Hyp being the best cosmic. Quake and ghost are still the best champions in the game even as 5*.
Because that implies damage and health is more important when considering the best champ. The difference between a 5/65 and rank 3 6* is not that much, just around 30% health and attack. So you’re saying that if Hyperion had that extra damage then he would be better than the other cosmics, which doesn’t make sense.
If Hyp was the best cosmic like everyone says, he would still be the best cosmic regardless of star level. Because he would just be that good.
Using ghost and Quake as an example is horrible. They're the best even at 5* level because they are so far above everyone else, to the point we're getting nodes added to AW to hard counter them. That example ain't it, with the gap they have above other champs a 30% stat increase doesn't hurt them as much.
When the champs being compared are this close in level then things like 30% attack and health increase are more important. If corvus wasn't available as a 6* r3 he'd lose a lot of reach with his 20 charges and struggle a substantial amount more Vs higher health pools. That would undoubtedly affect where people rate him.
as soon as hype gets his blue border he will be by far 1 of the best cosmics even as a 5* he holds it down still
Not being a 6* doesn’t stop Hyp being the best cosmic. Quake and ghost are still the best champions in the game even as 5*.
Because that implies damage and health is more important when considering the best champ. The difference between a 5/65 and rank 3 6* is not that much, just around 30% health and attack. So you’re saying that if Hyperion had that extra damage then he would be better than the other cosmics, which doesn’t make sense.
If Hyp was the best cosmic like everyone says, he would still be the best cosmic regardless of star level. Because he would just be that good.
Using ghost and Quake as an example is horrible. They're the best even at 5* level because they are so far above everyone else, to the point we're getting nodes added to AW to hard counter them. That example ain't it, with the gap they have above other champs a 30% stat increase doesn't hurt them as much.
When the champs being compared are this close in level then things like 30% attack and health increase are more important. If corvus wasn't available as a 6* r3 he'd lose a lot of reach with his 20 charges and struggle a substantial amount more Vs higher health pools. That would undoubtedly affect where people rate him.
Maybe quake and ghost aren’t the best example. But they still have the same utility at that rank that makes them so good. And so does Hype. But you’re not getting my point, extra health and attack isn’t the only thing stopping Hyperion being the best. Champions have exactly the same utility as 5* rank 5 and 6* r3.
Comments
But his kit is really underrated and useful, completely agree.
Thank you for sharing your points I really enjoyed hearing your side of it
Take a look at the first 30 seconds of this vid. As the thumbnail says, 1.4m damage in 30 seconds. Hyperion is good, but can you seriously say that he could do that?
CGR really is very good & gives Hype a good run for his money
I really do think that Hercules is going to edge them all out though, but not by much
And who knows
If Kabam do another good job then who knows what will come of Adam Warlock
124 votes for Hyperion, 98 for CGR. For every 1 vote CGR got, Hyp got 1.27.
It was honestly closer than I expected, considering CGR had been out for about 6 months. But today we’ve had 66 for Hyperion and 59 for CGR. For every 1 vote CGR got Hyperion got 1.12. It is slightly changing, obviously this is not evidence enough to prove the opinion is shifting, but it does suggest that. Another slight addendum is that these two polls are different, and the people who voted Hercules today would vote Hyp/CGR and change the results. But we can take it at face value that if you vote for CGR as best cosmic, it’s pretty evident you think he’s better than Hyperion and vice Versa.
What I am very interested to do is in 6 months or so, I’ll love to repeat the CGR vs Hyperion poll and see if 10 months is enough to noticeably shift the result and see if the communities mind has changed on the two
I kid you not, the only thing I’ve found impressive thus far has been the Luke cage solo, and that required an extremely skilled player to do so. I admit that’s genuinely cool. Why must I say this again to you? Could you not tell I was impressed the first time or something?
Having debuffs doesn’t make him good for healing. It’s funny that you were arguing against Hyperion before, who also does well against healing due to the amount of incinerates he puts in the opponents. Would I ever resort to him for healing countering? Hell no. My Annihilus is such a good heal counter cuz he places loads of debuffs, yet I’m not seeing him counter much healing, just like CGR. Not impressive.
Also, I literally already said “difficulty is subjective” when I mentioned act 6. Im not seeing him do much actually tricky stuff in act 6, so I’m just not seeing his utility being very useful here.
Abyss ghost and omega are unbelievably easy to deal with. BUT, like I’ve already said, Luke cage was impressive and iron man is for sure a tricky fight. So that’s… 4 out of loads of abyss fights? Half of which are very easy? Meh. I know you’ll probably say “yeah but Luke and iron man are difficult”, but does that really make him super valuable for the abyss? No.
It’s all well and good basically saying “ why don’t you agree with me that he has utility”. Hmmmm… let’s think why… ah yes it’s because I’m not impressed perhaps? What? Do you want me to say “wow bittersteel, I really agree with you now that you’ve given me arguments I should be impressed by”. Nope. That’s not how arguments work. Luke was cool. Thanks for showing me he’s good for one fight I didn’t know he would so good for so far.
When you have the output to take fights that you would otherwise be locked out of without certain utility then an exception can be made.
An example would acid wash Mysterio, Neither guillotine99, NF or Proxima have access to poison yet they can all solo the fight (even faster than some poison champs). They're damage suitably replaces utility in scenarios like that, same thing for fights like thunderstruck KG where shock is required or Caustic temper sinister without fury
CGR also falls into the same category but not for the reason you listed
You make points like “I’ve not seen much abyss gameplay” as if that’s a point against him, then when I show abyss gameplay, you say well it’s not relevant. I ask you what difficult content would you say I can do to show you CGR has utility and you dodge by saying difficulty is subjective, while I’m literally offering you an opportunity to see him to the difficult content. You say he has no miss counter and I offer to show you proof and you blank it, which is just a symptom of your issue here. You don’t want to see proof. You want to just ignore what’s shown to you so you can keep your opinion.
I’m not saying CGR has the most utility in the game ever, and you should all bow down to the utility god. I’m saying your statement that he has no utility except armour break and double immunity is demonstrably and categorically wrong. So feel free to think what you’d like, but you’ve shown me that a debate isn’t worth continuing with you.
Because that implies damage and health is more important when considering the best champ. The difference between a 5/65 and rank 3 6* is not that much, just around 30% health and attack. So you’re saying that if Hyperion had that extra damage then he would be better than the other cosmics, which doesn’t make sense.
If Hyp was the best cosmic like everyone says, he would still be the best cosmic regardless of star level. Because he would just be that good.
They're the best even at 5* level because they are so far above everyone else, to the point we're getting nodes added to AW to hard counter them. That example ain't it, with the gap they have above other champs a 30% stat increase doesn't hurt them as much.
When the champs being compared are this close in level then things like 30% attack and health increase are more important. If corvus wasn't available as a 6* r3 he'd lose a lot of reach with his 20 charges and struggle a substantial amount more Vs higher health pools. That would undoubtedly affect where people rate him.