I hate to say this, but SoP’s Rewards to Difficulty ratio is way too high

Graves_3 · August 2021

BitterSteel said:

Graves_3 said:

BitterSteel said:

MCOChimps said:

Crcrcrc said:
I love SoP so far, I think it’s been a wonderful event, and the rewards are awesome.

A bit too awesome at the moment

As of right now any cav players with mediocre skills or some unitd, even ones on 6.2, are going to receive 50% t5cc in selectors at the end. If the next 2 fights are close to the same difficulty, that will be 75% t5cc.

We are going to be having cav players working through 6.2 and beyond with a r3 6*, which are usually so difficult to obtain that it’s quickest to get abyss done. Nearly every cav player that has 6.4 done is guaranteed tb, and anyone before that is getting tb right with 6.4 completion.

Now, this sounds great for cavs, but in all reality it’s going to make late game progression even easier, which means that the next time we get hard content, there’ll be a lot more players who haven’t improved their skills enough and were carried through act 6 with a r3.

Tb is also going to no longer be a very rare title, because most cavs are going to be getting it after SoP.

There’s not really a solution other than a nerf, which would be a HORRIBLE decision, so there’s not really any options left here.

I just wanted to do a quick explanation of why I think content like this needs either higher difficulty by a lot or less rewards, because it’s bad for the game as a whole.
I can't disagree enough, honestly, we Cavs have been thrown aside and gotten the butt end of things for the past year I'd say be it this year's July 4th, last year's Cyber weekend. For once we have a chance to progress and move on. Not every Cav player has the 6* roster or the additional 25% of the T5cc but, t's our one shortcut to TB and I'm sure in no time there will be a new title arriving with 7.4 producing even better rewards. But honestly quit being so salty and move on, Its great that this event has been put out so that we can progress. Please.... spare us the complaining.
The thing that a lot of Cavs don’t really get about this debate is that if you need 75% of a selector to get a shortcut to TB, you’re not really the target of becoming TB.

Before SoP, TB wasn’t aimed at someone with 25% of one T5cc. That is the issue that is being brought up in the thread. That isn’t a veteran Cav player. That is literally someone who has done 1 run through of act 6 and you need 1 good 6* and that’s it. You can select an entire t5cc for them.
That’s actually exactly who kabam intended to be thronebreaker. 1 run through of act 6 and having an r3 six star. If it was otherwise they would have made the requirement different. Almost a year in to the title, they are just making it easier to get there. I don’t see anything really wrong in that.

Graves_3 said:

BitterSteel said:

MCOChimps said:

Crcrcrc said:
I love SoP so far, I think it’s been a wonderful event, and the rewards are awesome.

A bit too awesome at the moment

As of right now any cav players with mediocre skills or some unitd, even ones on 6.2, are going to receive 50% t5cc in selectors at the end. If the next 2 fights are close to the same difficulty, that will be 75% t5cc.

We are going to be having cav players working through 6.2 and beyond with a r3 6*, which are usually so difficult to obtain that it’s quickest to get abyss done. Nearly every cav player that has 6.4 done is guaranteed tb, and anyone before that is getting tb right with 6.4 completion.

Now, this sounds great for cavs, but in all reality it’s going to make late game progression even easier, which means that the next time we get hard content, there’ll be a lot more players who haven’t improved their skills enough and were carried through act 6 with a r3.

Tb is also going to no longer be a very rare title, because most cavs are going to be getting it after SoP.

There’s not really a solution other than a nerf, which would be a HORRIBLE decision, so there’s not really any options left here.

I just wanted to do a quick explanation of why I think content like this needs either higher difficulty by a lot or less rewards, because it’s bad for the game as a whole.
I can't disagree enough, honestly, we Cavs have been thrown aside and gotten the butt end of things for the past year I'd say be it this year's July 4th, last year's Cyber weekend. For once we have a chance to progress and move on. Not every Cav player has the 6* roster or the additional 25% of the T5cc but, t's our one shortcut to TB and I'm sure in no time there will be a new title arriving with 7.4 producing even better rewards. But honestly quit being so salty and move on, Its great that this event has been put out so that we can progress. Please.... spare us the complaining.
The thing that a lot of Cavs don’t really get about this debate is that if you need 75% of a selector to get a shortcut to TB, you’re not really the target of becoming TB.

Before SoP, TB wasn’t aimed at someone with 25% of one T5cc. That is the issue that is being brought up in the thread. That isn’t a veteran Cav player. That is literally someone who has done 1 run through of act 6 and you need 1 good 6* and that’s it. You can select an entire t5cc for them.
That’s actually exactly who kabam intended to be thronebreaker. 1 run through of act 6 and having an r3 six star. If it was otherwise they would have made the requirement different. Almost a year in to the title, they are just making it easier to get there. I don’t see anything really wrong in that.
You’re absolutely right but I think you missed the point just a bit, I mean that with just act 6 completion done, it literally isn’t possible to have a fully formed t5cc. You only get 25% from there and youd have to supplement it with variant content, map 7, Cav Eq, exploration of act 6 chapters, act 7 etc. And that takes a lot longer, and a lot more effort than just act 6 completion. Remember that with RNG, you’re very unlikely to get the same class with 4 25%, and with 2% and 10% it spreads out the classes even more. On average, by the odds, you will have to form close to 600% of a t5cc to form your first (excluding selectors and nexus).

So why is this a big deal? I think because taking the months or close to a year of work of doing variants, map 7, act content, Cav EQ etc and saying, nah to get TB you don’t need to do all of that now, instead - you only have to do these 9 weekly fights and as long as you’ve done act 6 completion you are a TB now. I think you’re absolutely right, it should get easier over time than when it first started. And it has, with Nexus in Cav, with selectors in act 7 and all the new variants it’s much easier to get TB now.

But I think SoP allowing a 75% selector from relatively easy fights for the rewards offered is too big a step. And that’s the crux of this argument.

That’s kind of the natural progression of the game. When I got uncollected, it was a big deal for me since I used 4* OG hulk to get the collector down and r3 5* mostly with I think 1 or 2 r4 5* to get cavalier. But now people are using 6* and maxed 5* to clear the collector and have multiple maxed 5* when they are getting cavalier. That’s kind of how things evolve. You can’t expect everyone to do what we did initially. And you have to be at the right place at the right time to actually benefit from this event to actually hit TB since it’s not a permanent piece of content that everyone can use to fast track to TB.

Graves_3 · August 2021

BitterSteel said:

grfvb said:

Mr_Platypus said:

grfvb said:

Crcrcrc said:
Wow, 100 disagrees. I guess we’ll see if I’m right when the rewards pay out
im surprised it's not more... please educate yourself on how mobile game economy works before writing such garbage..a simple googling would do. or at least read DNA's feedback. he's got very valid points backed up with hard facts. i suggest everyone reading DNA's posts.. pure knowledge, no misinterpretation or misleading nonsense...
I’m pretty sure DNA has also said it’s too easy.
I am not talking about difficulty of SOP... like it or not... you cannot objectively state if any content is easy or dificulty. it's all relative.

i encourage you to read his posts again, got lots of insight (again forget about whether SoP is easy or not, it's about understanding the logic behind rewards structure in context of overall game econ) a bit longer posts, but not even DNA is smart enough to explain complex dynamics of this game in 2 sentences...
But this post is so intrinsically linked to the difficulty of SoP, that you can’t just decide not to include it in your argument. The entire premise is that if SoP was harder, there wouldn’t be any question at all about the rewards given out.

How difficult is it to whip out your wallet and buy t5cc?

Unio77 · August 2021

Came here for drama and left with an overdose.

pseudosane · August 2021

The_Sentry06 said:

grfvb said:

Crcrcrc said:
Wow, 100 disagrees. I guess we’ll see if I’m right when the rewards pay out
im surprised it's not more... please educate yourself on how mobile game economy works before writing such garbage..a simple googling would do. or at least read DNA's feedback. he's got very valid points backed up with hard facts. i suggest everyone reading DNA's posts.. pure knowledge, no misinterpretation or misleading nonsense...
Ironic since even DNA can kinda see the concern here. Please educate YOURSELF. Mobile game companies don't just randomnly go from having no selectors of an extremely valuable resource in any temporary content to randomnly giving out 75% of it for relatively no work without a reason.

i dont see the "no work" angle tbh. This isnt aimed at you, this is for all there saying that.

It is an 8 week piece of content that is quite fun and relatively challenging.
75% t5cc is nothing. As a day1 TB, not doing map7, i currently have 15 r3s, with more on the way (lack of t5b).
Will this change anything for higher tbs? nope. This just sets us up to have t5cc for r4s. This makes no difference to tbs whatsoever. New TBs get a chance to start on tb level challenges, which, without skill and experience, they re gonna struggle anyways. In the end, it doesnt really matter.

Moosetiptronic · August 2021

Getting a t5cc is not hard. You just need 5k units, duped 5/65 aegon and maybe torch. You don't even need much skill as my own and others experience shows; 5 hit combo and some rudimentary dex skills.

Getting a t5cc is easy with the above. There was no skill check to getting t5cc, just an aegon and 5k units check. And that's how most people did it from the options available:
https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/265607/how-did-you-get-the-t5cc-for-thronebreaker#latest

Is sop easier? Yes.

But.

To get from cav to TB (and the mists of time may have lessened the memory of the pain) means beating mordo, champion, Medusa, capiw, Mysterio and the grandmaster. There are far more roster checks in beating act 6 than there are in getting a t5cc.

There used to be a 5k unit premium, top end, plus aegon requirement to getting a whole t5cc in the past. I actually think that this change therefore represents fair progress.

Additional TBs is not going to unbalance the game.

That will be relics.....

DNA3000 · August 2021

Kerneas said:

DNA3000 said:

Crcrcrc said:
Tb is also going to no longer be a very rare title, because most cavs are going to be getting it after SoP.
It isn't really intended to be a rare title, but regardless most Cavs aren't going to become TB after SoP rewards go out because they will still need 6.4 completion, which contrary to what some people say is still a significant barrier for most players. What this will do is make the R3 hurdle extremely low for Cavs who live through SoP.

But once SoP is gone (and technically, in terms of T5CC it is already at the point where newly minted Cavs can't get high enough anymore) every player that reaches Cav afterwards will have the same hurdle as Cav players had before SoP. SoP's Cav2TB benefits are temporary.
6.4 completion is easy tho, compared to obtaining t5cc

That depends greatly on how patient you are. It is in general significantly more difficult to get T5CC from zero quickly compared to getting 6.4 completion from zero quickly. However, if you're patient, it is usually massively more difficult to get 6.4 completion than your first T5CC, because you can get T5CC from Cav EQ and side quests eventually.

If you're a high skill player there's a steep but short path to TB, and the hardest leg of it is probably getting T5C selectors from the Abyss. If you're a medium skill player there's a more conventional path to TB (now) that involves slowly acquiring T5CC from monthly content and Variants and building roster to have reasonably strong options for easy path Act 6 completion. If you're a low skill player there's a very low skill but probably very long path to TB that gets there eventually that involves slowly building up a gigantic roster of strong R2 and even R3 champs from monthly content to overwhelm Act 6.

DNA3000 · August 2021

Crcrcrc said:

grfvb said:

The_Sentry06 said:

grfvb said:

Mr_Platypus said:

grfvb said:

Crcrcrc said:
Wow, 100 disagrees. I guess we’ll see if I’m right when the rewards pay out
im surprised it's not more... please educate yourself on how mobile game economy works before writing such garbage..a simple googling would do. or at least read DNA's feedback. he's got very valid points backed up with hard facts. i suggest everyone reading DNA's posts.. pure knowledge, no misinterpretation or misleading nonsense...
I’m pretty sure DNA has also said it’s too easy.
I am not talking about difficulty of SOP... like it or not... you cannot objectively state if any content is easy or dificulty. it's all relative.

i encourage you to read his posts again, got lots of insight (again forget about whether SoP is easy or not, it's about understanding the logic behind rewards structure in context of overall game econ) a bit longer posts, but not even DNA is smart enough to explain complex dynamics of this game in 2 sentences...
Yes this content is relatively breadcrumbs compared to the difficulty people go through to get selectors in act 6. Act 7 is way longer than what we have to do here. I suggest you read other people's posts as well and try and understand their perspectives as well.
i do read other ppl's posts if they have valid arguments and i appreciate some perspectives but mostly coming from lack of knowledge or just fallacy - e.g. how can you compare rewards/effort of act 6, 7 and SOP when they were constructed different time, under different conditions and for different purpose, etc

dont be too negative my guy, i am just encouraging hopefully majority of reasonable forum users to appreciate we have chance to peak into dev kitchen via DNA.

DNA isn’t an mcoc dev, and this is an anonymous forum. That makes him pretty much have the same level of qualifications as everyone else here without proof otherwise. As far as we know, he could just be making it up as he goes along, and so could I. Nobody has any idea, so every comment should be taken with a grain of salt

I will say people should be skeptical about anyone posting on an anonymous forum, because there's just too many millionaires that know Kung Fu and sleep with supermodels.

At the end of the day, it comes down to credibility. Everyone has to decide whether a poster has credibility, based on what they say and how they present what they say. Credibility is not the same thing as accuracy, by the way. I get things wrong all the time, because I make careless errors or I have some misunderstanding. Even if you believe I'm credible, that doesn't make me infallible. Although it is rare for me to make an obvious error that goes unchallenged, so at least there's that: if I make a mistake, chances are higher you'll find out about it when I make that mistake than when another random person does.

If someone wants to agree with me, that's cool. If they want to disagree with me, that's also cool. If someone wants to quote or reference me (to amplify or to refute), that's why I post, so have at it. But while I appreciate it, no one should feel the need to defend me. I've been here for a long time and I don't take things too personally, so I'm not going to be discouraged from posting any time soon. I think my posts speak for themselves, and everyone is free to judge them on their content.

Having said all of that, I will say that only an idiot would lie about having conversations with the developers of the game on their own official forums. The developers themselves might not step in to refute that, but there are enough other players with direct contact with the devs wandering around, and they wouldn't have the same hesitation to squish a fraud. So take that for what it is worth. As to any other experience I might have in the games industry, that would be difficult to prove without, say posting a contract or something (which I believe I'm legally barred from doing anyway), but once again that's not an easy thing to make up without sounding like an ignoramus. I could fool the average player, but not actually knowledgeable people, of which again there are some floating around.

It is a lot more difficult to feign expertise than most people think. You can do it to people who know less than you, but everyone that knows more will spot you pretty much instantly.

the_eradicator · August 2021

so much salt here I am dying lol.
Thronebreaker title will no longer be a rare title. With time everyone becomes better and rosters also become bigger its natural progression thats it.

I hate to say this, but SoP’s Rewards to Difficulty ratio is way too high

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