All I can say is she now sucks even more than she did before but at least before life steal was way better. she was my alliance Quest champ now she's not even usable it any content. This was not an buff this in my opinion was a nerf.
Not happy I grinded arena for gully and I was torn between ant man and her as I have got 6* wasp and 6*r2 ghost. 5* ghost maxed also but I thought I have to go guilly kabam will surly do her justice becase it's a kabam baby and I love both versions of guilly. I'm disgusted at the nerf I want to rank her down what a waste of a great opportunity really saddened grind definitely not worth it.
Can we just revert Guillotine back now please? I use her for AQ as part of my main team. Before, I could survive the entire quest at near full health. Now, combined with the still ongoing bug, She dies so quickly. Healing only 2% of the opponents max health does nothing, since I take more damage than I can heal. Heal 20 HP, get dealt 200 damage per block.
I was disappointed, now I'm indifferent. She was my second maxed out 5* and I liked her a lot, but with Doom und Claire I have now better options. I won't play her more than before, her regeneration is worse, her SP3 is ruined, her bleed curse is ... nice I think, but I just don't like the heavy spam play style, so no thanks. That's exactly why I voted for Antman.
They just need to increase her healing, increase her bleed chance and damage and increase her sp3 damage...basically everything they nerfed and then she might become playable agian...
back in the day i used her for her sp3 to bypass difficult nodes and champs that got healing unblockable power gain etc at lower health ... her sp3 was what made her unique in the game now she's just a heavy spam champ its really sad
Can we just revert Guillotine back now please? I use her for AQ as part of my main team. Before, I could survive the entire quest at near full health. Now, combined with the still ongoing bug, She dies so quickly. Healing only 2% of the opponents max health does nothing, since I take more damage than I can heal. Heal 20 HP, get dealt 200 damage per block.
But as was said before, they made such a big deal out of it that it would be weird not to say anything. We still haven't heard from Kabam; but I don't know what they could say honestly.
I don't think Guilly is far worse than before, she isn't; but she isn't better either. If you think about it, Guilly was defined by three things: the way she regenerated, the soul-trapping, and the SP3. All of these three things have been changed to get her a Bleed Curse. So we got a "new" champ that we didn't need and that we won't use anywhere and that's a shame.
I'm beginning to think Kabam can't even find this thread anymore. Its been here for a while, so finding it on the main discussion page is gonna be slightly difficult. Any idea's on how to get their attention?
If they increase the regen, prolong the timer on the blood curses and add one or two of her synergies in her main-kit she would be quite decent and it would feel a little bit better
The blood curse is kind of cool, but the small chance of stacking a bleed on the opponent makes it difficult to benefit from it.
The blood curse goes away so fast as well, and heavy spamming in the corner only works against ROL winter soldier. So to stack them is in usual fights almost impossible. And also her crit chance and chance to make the opponent bleed is too low.
Besides that, it’s a champ you need to parry / heavy, her regen is so low that the damage I take on my block sometimes is more than what I gain back.. very poorly designed! +16hp, +20hp, +18hp.. it’s nothing.
This buff still has potential with some minor adjustments. Have tested her enough by now to say that.
- More regen, so you can really feel and see her health going back up.
- no timer / or longer timer on the blood curses, so you can actually stack them in other fights as well.
- higher chance to crit and stack bleeds on the opponent (maybe by adding some of the synergies in her main - kit).
In all this years I only came to the forums to keep myself informed of important things (outages, updates, changes, etc), never posted anything. This Guilly nerf was what made me create a profile and raise my voice for something that is not fair, to come here each and every single day to not let this thread die. The only way we will get their attention is to keep on providing our sentiment and feedback in regards of how bad the nerf was and that we have the right to an official response that, as someone earlier said, would let us move on, for bad or for good. I believe that something that created such a discomfort in such a big part of the community should be addressed, at least as a courtesy.
I’m not happy with the buff, if you can even call it that. They took a good champ who really just needed some tweaks and replaced it with yet another parry/heavy champ who actually does less damage in some situations. Revert to the old Gully but keep the rupture for bleed-immune opponents and you would have an actual improvement.
I can’t remember if I’ve commented on this thread before, but if I haven’t, let me make my thoughts clear.
This buff is a failure. In almost every aspect.
First, the regen. I feel like this was a cool concept on paper, but reservations about how OP it could have been held it back. However, as was almost immediately pointed out, the regen is entirely limited by the size of the opponents healthpool. And the larger the healthpool, the higher the attack is likely to be and the longer the fight is likely to go on. Therefore any potential benefit she might get from regenning on a larger healthpool is all but negated by these factors
Not to mention the base heal is just lower overall than before, and combined with her more block heavy playstyle, has nuked any sustainability into the ground
Her damage has improved a fair bit, but it takes a more risky, chip-heavy, and honestly boring playstyle to pull off. Is it satisfying to rack up 10 bleeds on a special attack? Sure. At the cost of everything else? No. However, if her other issues were fixed, I can more than live with this playstyle. And maybe learn to love it.
The soul mechanic buff gets a big thumbs up from me. Much easier to sustain and provides a greater benefit.
Unshackled sucks though. First of all, the unblockable doesn’t even function, and its benefits are minimal. This was an oppurtunitu to add a completely new layer to Guillotines kit, and yet we got an extra (useless) pain link, a (useless) unblockable, and double duration on an outdated spectre. I mean…really?
Speaking of that pain link, what a useless freaking mechanic. This could have been any debuff in the game. But we got possibly the most useless one maybe outside of…fatigue?
Because this is the core of where my grievances lie with this buff. The utility. I know, I know, I harp on about utility like a madman. But this is exactly why. Current buffed Guillotine would be so much better if she had actually been given some new utility. But no. We got Pain Link.
Additionally, she is another mystic that punishes buffs rather than controlling them. I don’t know who needs to hear this but control>>>>>>>>>>punish. The two aren’t mutually exclusive. Easy fix:
Any time a buff would be gained, consume one bleed to immediately nullify it. Deal a burst of damage equal to the bleeds potency. See? Punish and control
Knull, a cosmic champ has more interactions with buffs than Guillotine. Anti-Venom has 100% more staggers than her. If you gave me these champs abilities without telling me who they were or their class, Guillotine would be the last one I would guess to be mystic. In fact I would probably guess skill due to the bleeds.
Spectre is good utility but not in comparison to any other options. It doesn’t have the uptime and isn’t as potent. It was great back in the day but 100% duration is simply not enough to be relevant
Honestly I don’t care about her SP3 nerf. I understand it would have been a bit OP with how easily she gains soups. Maybe.
Also, what is that sig ability. A chance to place rupture? That should be 100% and on her base.
But, I’m a solution focused person. Here’s how I would fix her in the framework we have
Increase regen to 6/7% of damage dealt
Sig ability on base kit
Any time a buff would be gained, consume one bleed to immediately nullify it. Deal a burst of damage equal to the bleeds potency
Change Pain Link to something actually useful. Or make it give her a buff or something. Give it an actual utility function. Miss counter, autoblock counter, purify, I don’t care. I understand you can’t make it power control though or bleed curse would get out of control
Make souls expire at the end of a special attack. Unshackled could do something like purify all debuffs on Guillotine, increase her regen rate and give her a chance to nullify or something
Then just make the sig an actual decent ability et voila
(Jesus that was a bit of a rant. I loved Guillotine. But now I just get a bad taste in my mouth when I see her. So thanks for that)
And I agree that if you're going to punish buffs you need to really punish them; like with Sasquatch's +50% Combat Power, or Ronan's stun-lock. A few extra bleeds really isn't here or there (especially since a +5% chance on critical hits translates into an extra bleed every 80 hits, per buff... I mean, really...)
I put this in Guilly's spotlight a few days ago; and one of the main differences which I agree that she needs is a Stagger or Nullify on SP1 rather than the useless Pain Link.
Guillotine
Stats for 5/65 champion Health 28045 Attack 2482
Soul Harvest: Guillotine starts the match with four soul shards.
For each 5% of their Maximum health taken in damage either by Guillotine or her opponent, Guillotine gains a soul shard. Additionally, each time her opponent is made to Bleed or is Ruptured, Guillotine gains a bonus shard.
Guillotine cannot gain soul shards from damage she inflicts upon Robots or Dimensional Beings, but does gain then from placing Ruptures.
The first ten Soul shards do not expire; any additional soul charges (max fifteen) expire after ten seconds.
Soul Empowerments
Each soul shard grants Guillotine +120 Attack, or +240 Attack against Dimensional Beings
When inflicting Rupture, each soul shard inflicts a burst of 124 direct damage. This Damage scales with her base Attack (although it does rise with Sig ability, see below) only
As long as she has at least one soul, La Fleur De Mal's thirst for blood grants Guillotine True Accuracy whilst her opponent is bleeding or Ruptured.
Mystical Defenses: La Fleur De Mal enhances it's wielder's ability to protect themselves with a passive Bulwark effect granting +800 Block Proficiency. This also reduces the opponent's offensive ability accuracy by 50% when Guillotine is holding block. Each soul shard further increases her Block proficiency by +80, and her protection against offensive abilities by a flat +5%
Hopefully these abilities give Guilly some of that utility we were crying out for - True Accuracy, Reduction in chip damage, and defensive AAR whilst blocking, which reaches 100% at ten souls
All Attacks: Critical hits have a 50% chance to inflict bleed for 1740 damage over six seconds. Dimensional beings are not affected by bleed (even if they could be), but instead are afflicted with Rupture of equal intensity and duration. This mystical ability of Guillotines demonic blade does not affect robots or other characters who are naturally immune to bleed.
Heavy Attack 100% chance to consume a soul shard, and inflict Le baiser du mal for 10 seconds. Cool-down 12 seconds. This debuff immediately pauses any bleeds that are active when it lands for four seconds and grants Guillotine +50% Bleed ability accuracy and duration for new bleeds. Additionally, any time an opponent affected by Le baiser du mal is made to Bleed, Guillotine gains an additional bonus soul shard. All the benefits of Le baiser du mal extend to Rupture abilities, when fighting Dimensional Beings.
Signature: Guillotine develops the ability to steal health from her opponents. The chance is 20% on basic attacks; rising to 40% on critical hits and special attacks. The amount of health she steals is 5% of the damage inflicted, per soul shards she possesses. Minimum of 10% health steal regardless of her current soul count. Additionally, Guillotines Soul Empowerments gain +40% Potency. Guilly's Signature Life Steal returns! It always felt pretty subtle; and easy not to notice; so I've (slightly more than) doubled the chance but halved the potency; and would suggest a "Life Steal" callout to make the benefits more visible. Increasing the effectiveness of her Soul Empowerments will also enhance her damage and sustainability further.
Special Attacks Unshackled: Guillotine gains a passive Unblockable that lasts the length of these attacks, even if she consumes enough soul shards to fall back below ten. Generating this Unblockable effect costs her two soul shards. Special-1: If it hits, this overhead blow consumes up to two soul shards to inflict up to two Stagger effects for eight seconds, each removing the next buff that would have activated. Unshackled: Consume four soul shards to place four Stagger effects. - Guillotine's Stagger effects expire one at a time. - Against Cosmic champions, Stagger duration is increased by 50% and all buffs that would have activated simultaneously are Staggered.
Special-2: The final hit places a Spectral curse on the opponent for ten seconds, which reduces the opponent's regeneration rate by 200%. Spectre also reduces the ability accuracy of Tenacity, Masochism and other 'Purify' mechanics by 100% whilst it is active. Unshackled: Spend 6 Souls to Pause the Spectre for 10 seconds when it is first activated.
I've boosted Spectre's effects here for greater effectiveness and utility
Special-3: Consume all soul shards to inflict additional Direct damage on the opponent equal to 2% of their Total health per soul charge. This damage can't exceed ten times Guillotines own maximum health (i.e. 280,450 at 5/65.) Unshackled: After this attack exhausts all her souls, Guillotine gains a Bladethirst buff which lasts for ten seconds. During this time, La Fleur De Mal's desperate hunger grants Guillotine +240 Attack, +500 Critical Rating, and a flat +25% Ability Accuracy on bleed effects. The Bladethirst effect will end early if/when Guillotine has recovered a total of two soul shards. So with this re-revision, we've retrieved the much-loved Direct damage of Guilly's original SP3; but it's clear we need to introduce a mechanism to prevent her being the ultimate killer in Act 7, The Abyss, etc. Given how much the player-base like it, rather than getting rid of it entirely, I'd suggest installing a cap - preferably one based on Guilly's own Attack/Health; so that a 5/65 Guilly can do more damage than a 2/20 Guilly. A quarter of a million damage at 5/65 isn't exactly a small amount of damage, after all...
Synergies Doctor Strange - Blood and Magic): Unique synergy -
With training from the sorcerer supreme, Guillotine learns to dash back and hold block for 2 seconds, consuming a soul shard to activate a Life Steal buff. The buff lasts for seven seconds; although the duration is paused until her next successful hit. The Life Steal effect heals her for 40% of her Attack on all hits. She can activate this ability once per fight.
Dr Strange gains +50% Potency on all Life Steal and Power Steal effects*
*You may think Dr Strange doesn't have any Power Steal effects. This version does!
Venom - Symbiote Slayer (Unique Synergy, does not stack):
Guillotine gains a passive +30% Attack and +300 Critical Rating against Symbiotes
Venom's Klyntar buff refreshes 25% faster against Symbiotes and Spiderverse opponents.
So there is is - a bit of a blend of the old and new. Some limitations (robots, not countering all bleed Immunity, only Life Stealing 'Hit' damage) to balance new utility - Stagger, True Strike, Bulwark, enhanced Spectre - and the (partial) return of her much-loved SP3 and Life Steal. Maybe some things ought to cost more (or fewer) soul shards, but apart from that... Thoughts...?
Comments
back in the day i used her for her sp3 to bypass difficult nodes and champs that got healing unblockable power gain etc at lower health ... her sp3 was what made her unique in the game now she's just a heavy spam champ its really sad
I don't think Guilly is far worse than before, she isn't; but she isn't better either. If you think about it, Guilly was defined by three things: the way she regenerated, the soul-trapping, and the SP3. All of these three things have been changed to get her a Bleed Curse. So we got a "new" champ that we didn't need and that we won't use anywhere and that's a shame.
But... moving on.
The blood curse is kind of cool, but the small chance of stacking a bleed on the opponent makes it difficult to benefit from it.
The blood curse goes away so fast as well, and heavy spamming in the corner only works against ROL winter soldier. So to stack them is in usual fights almost impossible. And also her crit chance and chance to make the opponent bleed is too low.
Besides that, it’s a champ you need to parry / heavy, her regen is so low that the damage I take on my block sometimes is more than what I gain back.. very poorly designed! +16hp, +20hp, +18hp.. it’s nothing.
This buff still has potential with some minor adjustments. Have tested her enough by now to say that.
- More regen, so you can really feel and see her health going back up.
- no timer / or longer timer on the blood curses, so you can actually stack them in other fights as well.
- higher chance to crit and stack bleeds on the opponent (maybe by adding some of the synergies in her main - kit).
This buff is a failure. In almost every aspect.
First, the regen. I feel like this was a cool concept on paper, but reservations about how OP it could have been held it back. However, as was almost immediately pointed out, the regen is entirely limited by the size of the opponents healthpool. And the larger the healthpool, the higher the attack is likely to be and the longer the fight is likely to go on. Therefore any potential benefit she might get from regenning on a larger healthpool is all but negated by these factors
Not to mention the base heal is just lower overall than before, and combined with her more block heavy playstyle, has nuked any sustainability into the ground
Her damage has improved a fair bit, but it takes a more risky, chip-heavy, and honestly boring playstyle to pull off. Is it satisfying to rack up 10 bleeds on a special attack? Sure. At the cost of everything else? No. However, if her other issues were fixed, I can more than live with this playstyle. And maybe learn to love it.
The soul mechanic buff gets a big thumbs up from me. Much easier to sustain and provides a greater benefit.
Unshackled sucks though. First of all, the unblockable doesn’t even function, and its benefits are minimal. This was an oppurtunitu to add a completely new layer to Guillotines kit, and yet we got an extra (useless) pain link, a (useless) unblockable, and double duration on an outdated spectre. I mean…really?
Speaking of that pain link, what a useless freaking mechanic. This could have been any debuff in the game. But we got possibly the most useless one maybe outside of…fatigue?
Because this is the core of where my grievances lie with this buff. The utility. I know, I know, I harp on about utility like a madman. But this is exactly why. Current buffed Guillotine would be so much better if she had actually been given some new utility. But no. We got Pain Link.
Additionally, she is another mystic that punishes buffs rather than controlling them. I don’t know who needs to hear this but control>>>>>>>>>>punish. The two aren’t mutually exclusive. Easy fix:
Any time a buff would be gained, consume one bleed to immediately nullify it. Deal a burst of damage equal to the bleeds potency. See? Punish and control
Knull, a cosmic champ has more interactions with buffs than Guillotine. Anti-Venom has 100% more staggers than her. If you gave me these champs abilities without telling me who they were or their class, Guillotine would be the last one I would guess to be mystic. In fact I would probably guess skill due to the bleeds.
Spectre is good utility but not in comparison to any other options. It doesn’t have the uptime and isn’t as potent. It was great back in the day but 100% duration is simply not enough to be relevant
Honestly I don’t care about her SP3 nerf. I understand it would have been a bit OP with how easily she gains soups. Maybe.
Also, what is that sig ability. A chance to place rupture? That should be 100% and on her base.
But, I’m a solution focused person. Here’s how I would fix her in the framework we have
Increase regen to 6/7% of damage dealt
Sig ability on base kit
Any time a buff would be gained, consume one bleed to immediately nullify it. Deal a burst of damage equal to the bleeds potency
Change Pain Link to something actually useful. Or make it give her a buff or something. Give it an actual utility function. Miss counter, autoblock counter, purify, I don’t care. I understand you can’t make it power control though or bleed curse would get out of control
Make souls expire at the end of a special attack. Unshackled could do something like purify all debuffs on Guillotine, increase her regen rate and give her a chance to nullify or something
Then just make the sig an actual decent ability et voila
(Jesus that was a bit of a rant. I loved Guillotine. But now I just get a bad taste in my mouth when I see her. So thanks for that)
And I agree that if you're going to punish buffs you need to really punish them; like with Sasquatch's +50% Combat Power, or Ronan's stun-lock. A few extra bleeds really isn't here or there (especially since a +5% chance on critical hits translates into an extra bleed every 80 hits, per buff... I mean, really...)
I put this in Guilly's spotlight a few days ago; and one of the main differences which I agree that she needs is a Stagger or Nullify on SP1 rather than the useless Pain Link.
Guillotine
Stats for 5/65 champion
Health 28045
Attack 2482
Soul Harvest:
Guillotine starts the match with four soul shards.
For each 5% of their Maximum health taken in damage either by Guillotine or her opponent, Guillotine gains a soul shard. Additionally, each time her opponent is made to Bleed or is Ruptured, Guillotine gains a bonus shard.
Guillotine cannot gain soul shards from damage she inflicts upon Robots or Dimensional Beings, but does gain then from placing Ruptures.
The first ten Soul shards do not expire; any additional soul charges (max fifteen) expire after ten seconds.
Soul Empowerments
- Each soul shard grants Guillotine +120 Attack, or +240 Attack against Dimensional Beings
- When inflicting Rupture, each soul shard inflicts a burst of 124 direct damage. This Damage scales with her base Attack (although it does rise with Sig ability, see below) only
- As long as she has at least one soul, La Fleur De Mal's thirst for blood grants Guillotine True Accuracy whilst her opponent is bleeding or Ruptured.
- Mystical Defenses: La Fleur De Mal enhances it's wielder's ability to protect themselves with a passive Bulwark effect granting +800 Block Proficiency. This also reduces the opponent's offensive ability accuracy by 50% when Guillotine is holding block.
Hopefully these abilities give Guilly some of that utility we were crying out for - True Accuracy, Reduction in chip damage, and defensive AAR whilst blocking, which reaches 100% at ten soulsEach soul shard further increases her Block proficiency by +80, and her protection against offensive abilities by a flat +5%
All Attacks:
Critical hits have a 50% chance to inflict bleed for 1740 damage over six seconds.
Dimensional beings are not affected by bleed (even if they could be), but instead are afflicted with Rupture of equal intensity and duration. This mystical ability of Guillotines demonic blade does not affect robots or other characters who are naturally immune to bleed.
Heavy Attack
100% chance to consume a soul shard, and inflict Le baiser du mal for 10 seconds. Cool-down 12 seconds. This debuff immediately pauses any bleeds that are active when it lands for four seconds and grants Guillotine +50% Bleed ability accuracy and duration for new bleeds.
Additionally, any time an opponent affected by Le baiser du mal is made to Bleed, Guillotine gains an additional bonus soul shard.
All the benefits of Le baiser du mal extend to Rupture abilities, when fighting Dimensional Beings.
Signature:
Guillotine develops the ability to steal health from her opponents.
The chance is 20% on basic attacks; rising to 40% on critical hits and special attacks.
The amount of health she steals is 5% of the damage inflicted, per soul shards she possesses. Minimum of 10% health steal regardless of her current soul count.
Additionally, Guillotines Soul Empowerments gain +40% Potency.
Guilly's Signature Life Steal returns! It always felt pretty subtle; and easy not to notice; so I've (slightly more than) doubled the chance but halved the potency; and would suggest a "Life Steal" callout to make the benefits more visible. Increasing the effectiveness of her Soul Empowerments will also enhance her damage and sustainability further.
Special Attacks
Unshackled: Guillotine gains a passive Unblockable that lasts the length of these attacks, even if she consumes enough soul shards to fall back below ten. Generating this Unblockable effect costs her two soul shards.
Special-1: If it hits, this overhead blow consumes up to two soul shards to inflict up to two Stagger effects for eight seconds, each removing the next buff that would have activated.
Unshackled: Consume four soul shards to place four Stagger effects.
- Guillotine's Stagger effects expire one at a time.
- Against Cosmic champions, Stagger duration is increased by 50% and all buffs that would have activated simultaneously are Staggered.
Special-2: The final hit places a Spectral curse on the opponent for ten seconds, which reduces the opponent's regeneration rate by 200%. Spectre also reduces the ability accuracy of Tenacity, Masochism and other 'Purify' mechanics by 100% whilst it is active.
Unshackled: Spend 6 Souls to Pause the Spectre for 10 seconds when it is first activated.
I've boosted Spectre's effects here for greater effectiveness and utility
Special-3: Consume all soul shards to inflict additional Direct damage on the opponent equal to 2% of their Total health per soul charge. This damage can't exceed ten times Guillotines own maximum health (i.e. 280,450 at 5/65.)
Unshackled: After this attack exhausts all her souls, Guillotine gains a Bladethirst buff which lasts for ten seconds. During this time, La Fleur De Mal's desperate hunger grants Guillotine +240 Attack, +500 Critical Rating, and a flat +25% Ability Accuracy on bleed effects. The Bladethirst effect will end early if/when Guillotine has recovered a total of two soul shards.
So with this re-revision, we've retrieved the much-loved Direct damage of Guilly's original SP3; but it's clear we need to introduce a mechanism to prevent her being the ultimate killer in Act 7, The Abyss, etc. Given how much the player-base like it, rather than getting rid of it entirely, I'd suggest installing a cap - preferably one based on Guilly's own Attack/Health; so that a 5/65 Guilly can do more damage than a 2/20 Guilly. A quarter of a million damage at 5/65 isn't exactly a small amount of damage, after all...
Synergies
Doctor Strange - Blood and Magic): Unique synergy -
- With training from the sorcerer supreme, Guillotine learns to dash back and hold block for 2 seconds, consuming a soul shard to activate a Life Steal buff. The buff lasts for seven seconds; although the duration is paused until her next successful hit. The Life Steal effect heals her for 40% of her Attack on all hits. She can activate this ability once per fight.
- Dr Strange gains +50% Potency on all Life Steal and Power Steal effects*
*You may think Dr Strange doesn't have any Power Steal effects. This version does!Venom - Symbiote Slayer (Unique Synergy, does not stack):
- Guillotine gains a passive +30% Attack and +300 Critical Rating against Symbiotes
- Venom's Klyntar buff refreshes 25% faster against Symbiotes and Spiderverse opponents.
So there is is - a bit of a blend of the old and new. Some limitations (robots, not countering all bleed Immunity, only Life Stealing 'Hit' damage) to balance new utility - Stagger, True Strike, Bulwark, enhanced Spectre - and the (partial) return of her much-loved SP3 and Life Steal. Maybe some things ought to cost more (or fewer) soul shards, but apart from that... Thoughts...?#JusticeForGuillotine