Essentially, I think we as a community should have this discussion.
We *are* having this discussion. And my position in this discussion is: we've had this discussion before. People keep saying it is different this time, and it is, because it is always different. But it isn't different in an important way.
People keep focusing on the "well, it was *possible* to get Cavalier on day one, it was *possible* to get Thronebreaker on day one."
For who?
It *wasn't* possible for most people to get Cavalier on day one. It wasn't possible for most people to get Thronebreaker on day one. That's why people *complained* about Cavalier and Thronebreaker. It wasn't possible *for them*.
We aren't really discussing what's fair. We aren't even discussing what's possible. We're discussing who should be on this side of the line, and who should be on that side. And almost everyone thinks they should be on the right side, or close enough that it doesn't matter.
People don't want it to be possible. They want it to be possible for them and right now. it is fine if it is impossible for anyone else, because of course if it is possible for them, it isn't really impossible for everyone else. Those people just failed to do what they did.
The most important way in which this is just like Thronebreaker and just like Cavalier is: in six months, maybe a year, no one will care. The majority will look back, if they were even here, and wonder what the fuss was about. It is the temporary nature of these "issues" that contextualize what's really happening. Some people are upset they can't get there immediately. And that's something the game is never going to promise anyone. It didn't have to be three R4s, it could have been five R4s. It could have been five R5s. It could have been a title literally impossible for anyone to reach today, whether they were F2P or whale, whether they had completed everything or not. It wouldn't make any difference, because whatever the requirements were, *eventually* we'd be back here, with some people there, some people not quite there, and some people far away and complaining they deserve to be there.
For some people, Thronebreaker was possible on day one and Paragon won't be. For some people Cavalier was possible on day one and Thronebreaker wasn't. These are very tiny slivers of the player population, and where ever you draw the lines there will always be such people: you can only choose who there are, not if they are. And time eventually solves all their problems. You cannot solve this problem, because this is an inevitable situation. The best we can do is choose different people to suffer the problem under the guise of discussing fairness.
I think the main point here is that most are saying the line should be drawn juuuuuust in the right place so they can be Paragon on day 1 or so they can do another bit of content and get it.
Hmmm I’m f2p. Plat 3 alliance that runs map 8 top 100. 100% all content except carrina aol challenges. Was able to get 2 r4’s after getting. The 10k deal after 7.4. Not anywhere close to 3. Looks like this title is directly linked to how much people can spend during gifting event. Title might as well be “paragonnaspend”
The competitive alliance does not claim to be in aq or aw. It's clearly an alliance that hits the highest reward level in gifting event.
Ive largely been ignoring the forums and im not going to read this whole thread, but ive seen some of the sentiments on Line chats.
I am perfectly fine with the title. I wont have it day one unless I semi-whale on this Friday. Ive completed every piece of content with t6b and t3a and also bought some Cyber Weekend/July 4th deals that had frags. The only thing i missed was the 10k offer which would have gotten me there.
I said from day one that TB was too easy, and I kinda like that Paragon or whatever its called it harder.(Sure its more p2w, but thats their choice)
I think they made a good choice as act 7 is too easy to hide a title behind, and other requirements such as base hero rating or prestige would have similar problems.
The only thing mildly angering is the fact that content will already be locked behind the title, but to be completely fair it has always been like that. I think kabam was kinda in a lose-lose situation here with regardless of the requirements there would be people already wayyy passed the requirements or too many people annoyed at the restrictions.
Im sure ill end up spending friday to get there because i havent really spent much this year so i wouldnt mind spending a bit for it.
Anyways, thats my thoughts and i respect all the other reasonable claims ive seen as everyone comes from a slightly different position.
The progression curve in this game was already broken with increasing catalyst costs for 6-stars and reduced improvement in stats (even raw totals…not just percentages). The 6r5 situation will be even worse with overlapping materials.
With Spring Cleaning ahead, I’m stuck in No Man’s Land. I’m nowhere near Paragon so r4 materials don’t provide enough immediate return to be worth it. I have 20 r3 champs and catalysts and a gem collecting dust. R3 materials don’t really improve my roster much. Why bother…?
Idk why progression titles have to be tied to rank ups. Bad form to continue this trend imo.
Because we can no longer tie them to Story Content without significantly raising the difficulty again, and that's not what players want. They are not just a random reward, but a differentiator for where Players are in-game, what content would be a challenge to them, and what rewards they need to move forward.
Roster strength is a better indicator than just having completed Act 7 now.
Honestly maybe we should bring back the torturously difficult stuff then, at least I can work my way through that. Going to be literally impossible to grind to 3 r4s f2p for a long time
Ive largely been ignoring the forums and im not going to read this whole thread, but ive seen some of the sentiments on Line chats.
I am perfectly fine with the title. I wont have it day one unless I semi-whale on this Friday. Ive completed every piece of content with t6b and t3a and also bought some Cyber Weekend/July 4th deals that had frags. The only thing i missed was the 10k offer which would have gotten me there.
I said from day one that TB was too easy, and I kinda like that Paragon or whatever its called it harder.(Sure its more p2w, but thats their choice)
I think they made a good choice as act 7 is too easy to hide a title behind, and other requirements such as base hero rating or prestige would have similar problems.
The only thing mildly angering is the fact that content will already be locked behind the title, but to be completely fair it has always been like that. I think kabam was kinda in a lose-lose situation here with regardless of the requirements there would be people already wayyy passed the requirements or too many people annoyed at the restrictions.
Im sure ill end up spending friday to get there because i havent really spent much this year so i wouldnt mind spending a bit for it.
Anyways, thats my thoughts and i respect all the other reasonable claims ive seen as everyone comes from a slightly different position.
I agree Act 7 completion would have been easy but 3 r4 6stars is very very steep and locked behind whaling and p2w. If they wanted to make it skill-based focus, trust me they could have. There are still difficult content in-game, where do Carina challenges come from? It's no outside content. It's just an avenue to make or milk more money. Someone can 100% every permanent content in this game and not make this title. However, someone can without exploring all content in the game. Yet, this titled is for the toughest and conquerors in the game and not the hardest whalers (and conquerors). Situations like these are not uncommon in this game, I'm just gonna chill out and not stress, eventually I will get there.
Idk why progression titles have to be tied to rank ups. Bad form to continue this trend imo.
Because we can no longer tie them to Story Content without significantly raising the difficulty again, and that's not what players want. They are not just a random reward, but a differentiator for where Players are in-game, what content would be a challenge to them, and what rewards they need to move forward.
Roster strength is a better indicator than just having completed Act 7 now.
Honestly maybe we should bring back the torturously difficult stuff then, at least I can work my way through that. Going to be literally impossible to grind to 3 r4s f2p for a long time
I do miss Story Content being the bar, it made completing it feel more satisfactory
I'm a mostly free to play player (only occasionally buy july 4/cyber weekend smaller deals) and did the sigil just for Scarlet Witch.
With that said, even with full 7.4 exploration, I'll only have max 2 R4s by May when this title drops.
However, I think this is 100% fine since it gives me more reason to be excited for the future events such as Act 8.1 as well as the next "Abyss" and the Eternity of Pain event.
In addition, the fact that there's a new progression level doesn't mean that Thronebreaker tier suddenly becomes bad. Your champs are still as strong, you still get the same price for cav crystals, etc.
I think the only people who will be affected by not being Paragon on day 1 are people in Plat 1/Master tier alliances but those players are almost certainly all going to comfortably have 3 R4s
I've done 100% of all content except 2 LOL challenges in carina vol 1. If I finished those I would have a 3 r4 but spring cleaning will be me a 3rd r4 anyways. That being said I don't like this progression at all. I think two is more reasonable and fair.
If they really wanted us all to work towards it they can make it 5 r4 champions but that could upset the 1% and we can't have that. Kabam should really reconsider this one.
Make it 2 r4 6*s and everyone is happy… sure you could give more r4 resources, that’s natural… sure you could have announced this prior to 7.4 so many more could have grabbed 10k unit offer… sure you could have included r4 in rifts instead of junk like 4/5* sigs and t4c but all in all…could adjust map 5 and below and gold below AW to have better rank up resources… or simply make it 2 r4 6*s and many will be happier.
Idk why progression titles have to be tied to rank ups. Bad form to continue this trend imo.
Because we can no longer tie them to Story Content without significantly raising the difficulty again, and that's not what players want. They are not just a random reward, but a differentiator for where Players are in-game, what content would be a challenge to them, and what rewards they need to move forward.
Roster strength is a better indicator than just having completed Act 7 now.
Honestly maybe we should bring back the torturously difficult stuff then, at least I can work my way through that. Going to be literally impossible to grind to 3 r4s f2p for a long time
I do miss Story Content being the bar, it made completing it feel more satisfactory
I agree, seeing the collector go down and getting uncollected was an awesome feeling. Now I just get to fly through a new final boss 8 times to get halfway to a title. I kinda miss the really crazy tough stuff.
Sorry, if you purchased the Act 7 offer you are not FTP. Nobody would have just been expecting that offer and then also just happen to have those kinda units laying around. And you cant score high in the gifting eveny FTP. Also to be in a Higher-end alliance you would probably not be allowed to be a FTP player. 3 is a joke. Just finishing Act 7 100% would be an accomplishment in itself worthy of Paragon and you would have a 6* rank4. That should be good enough.
? a lot of people that don't spend money save up for july 4th and cyber weekend. Some other things like gifting event as well. but those are the two biggest events for units in the game. Personally, I had been saving up in anticipation of building up my stash for july 4th since gifting ended. It was to be expected that there would be a good deal from story content. It was the end of the act and end of act 6 was also a big deal for units just wasn't worth it as much but a lot has changed since. I didn't expect 10k but had expected 3k or 6k. I had around 8k saved. You can get over 7k units a month in the game f2p. I explored 7.4.1-7.4.5 and did not touch 7.4.6 until I had the units and was ready to buy the 10k deal.
I'm not in a masters alliance only P1/P2, I didn't score high in gifting.
It’s a pay-title. It’s nearly impossible that f2p players have 3 r4s. I always had the newest progression title but that is simply too much. For TB I did back then my first abyss completion. What can I do now to obtain 3 r4s? It’s huge man. It’s not a good feeling right now.
For context: I have 1 r4 and have everything in game on 100% except some carina challenges. It shifts more in p2w direction
Why is it a pay title if you can’t get it the second it launches?
Is it bad to work for things?
You have to admit currently the title will only be available to the small minority of FTP players at the top. It'll become more FTP as time passes but for now it is a very pay to earn title. No point denying it.
I’m of the opinion that spending on a FTP game, or being at the very very top should award some perks. Or the game stops being spent on, and people stop trying at the top because there are no benefits.
This is one of the benefits. I’m not one who benefits from it in this situation (not a hardcore spender, not in a top alliance), I still have to get 2 T3As, but I understand that not everything will be handed to me just for turning up, and sometimes it’s actually ok to work for things in the game.
It is really not a big deal that F2P players cannot get this title day 1 unless they are in a top alliance. F2P players could be in a top alliance and get it, but it’s absolutely ok for challenges to be set that people work for.
Plat 3 puts you in the top 300 alliances so you're contradicting yourself all around with the whole you're not in a high ranking alliance. The issue is your bias is inclined towards it's ok for FTP to miss out momentarily because you're close to the title because you're willing to spend. You will benefit soon whether it be from July 4 or spring cleaning deals. If you read my prior comments you'd see I think having a title that is hard to achieve is a good thing but it is very catered to spending players, unlike thronebreaker which was somewhat FTP friendly. Unfortunately, kabam needs to make money at the end of the day and as such the title is what it is. Never ever did I come in demanding free rewards so everyone can get the title the day of release and I've been actively smashing through the carina's challenges to get my next r4 champ
So those who haven’t spent and not high aq and aw alliance are screwed? Yea you sure made it about money. And when is gauntlet coming back. You know when you said it was and yet nothing
How are they screwed lol?
I’ve only spent on about 30k or so T3A, and I’m not in an alliance that gets it from AQ or AW. I’ve done all the content that allows me to get rank 4 materials except some of Carina 1.
Minusing the 30k away from spending and adding 20k from carina means I would be around 2 T3As away from getting 3 rank 4s without spending and just completing content.
It’s like some of you are allergic to working towards things. I’m happy to have something to work to and aim for.
They’ve said R4 materials are going to become more common, not everything is designed to screw people over. Spending deserves to have give an advantage, if it gave no advantage people would stop spending and bye bye game.
You do realise that by "make it easier to get 3x r4 champions" they mean you will get more $$$ shop offers. In what way do you think they are going to buff it? AQ and AW shops and rewards have had some very minor changes recently and it doesn't look like they are giving anyone a rank 4 anytime soon. You are literally an egg behind a laptop trying to sound cool.
So you bought the sigil consecutively to get scarlet witch and occasionally pay $100+ twice a year….that’s not mostly free to play. Better put, you’re likely not a complete whale but don’t call yourself mostly free to play if you’re dishing out on cyber weekend and 4th of July lol
i dont spend $100 twice a year, i spend like maybe $30 once or twice a year.
Plus for sigil, i only paid for 3 months to get Scarlet witch.
I don't think thats an unreasonable ammount to pay for a game.
In addition, I'd like to confirm that though I spend on the game, I have never received any R4 materials from spending since I don't get the Odin level deals. So I've never paid $$ for T3A or T6B.
So a fully FTP player could easily have the same level of R4s as me at the moment which is 2 full and around 1/3rd of my 3rd. Note that this is without finishing either carina challenge 1 or 2.
I agree that Kabam @Kabam Miike@Kabam Porthos should have announced the release date of the eternity of pain event prior to the Paragon announcement so that free to play endgame players have a clear and definite way of getting to the Paragon requirements but other than that, I feel the requirements are fair and correct.
There should be something to chase further down instead of having a new tier be just an automatic promotion
@LilMaddogHT Thanks for correcting my saying you were "totally" ftp. I have nothing but respect for all the hard work you have done grinding out your progress. Whether a player spends or not makes no difference to me. My intention was only to point out that 3 R3s was possible without whaling on R4 mat offers. (My humble apologies if I overstepped, good sir).
Sorry, if you purchased the Act 7 offer you are not FTP. Nobody would have just been expecting that offer and then also just happen to have those kinda units laying around. And you cant score high in the gifting eveny FTP. Also to be in a Higher-end alliance you would probably not be allowed to be a FTP player. 3 is a joke. Just finishing Act 7 100% would be an accomplishment in itself worthy of Paragon and you would have a 6* rank4. That should be good enough.
This I can't agree with. Grinding and saving Units is the bread and butter of people who don't spend. Not really accurate.
Yep, I'm pretty much done chasing the carrot at this point. This doesn't motivate me to even push for Thronebreaker. Just accepting the fact that I will never catch-up due to how far behind I've gotten. This game is just not worth it anymore.
Why would you have ever expected to catch up to people who've spent or constantly grinded their way to 3 r4s? Unless you're ready to drop thousands of dollars to do everything in the game ASAP and then spend thousands on Cavs to get champs, you shouldn't ever expect to catch up to the top.
boooo 3 r4s is ridiculous. Unless you dramatically increase t6b and t3a rewards in future content, that's nigh unnatainable for the average tb player. For everyone's sake I hope you change your mind about this requirement. Make it one r4 or exploration or literally anything else at all
Sorry, if you purchased the Act 7 offer you are not FTP. Nobody would have just been expecting that offer and then also just happen to have those kinda units laying around. And you cant score high in the gifting eveny FTP. Also to be in a Higher-end alliance you would probably not be allowed to be a FTP player. 3 is a joke. Just finishing Act 7 100% would be an accomplishment in itself worthy of Paragon and you would have a 6* rank4. That should be good enough.
Not true , they always have a offer at the end.. and if you grind arena 10k isn't that hard to get if you want it.
…..I’m just over here trying to beat Thing in Abyss. Lol. But honestly I’ve always been one of those players that was just ONE LEVEL below everyone else.
So hey, as long as Kabam doesn’t start lumping cavalier and thronebreaker rewards together…then hey, have at it you paragons!
I’m generally upset that Kabam decided to make the next title hard to achieve for the average player. I would be okay if they you only needed one 6 star rank 4 champion. I guess I’m staying on thronebreaker for another 3 years.
Everyone critical of the requirements should be willing to post their roster, AW/AQ rankings, and all endgame content progress (Story, Abyss, Carinas).
Most won't:
Haven't played long enough Skip content Don't 100% content Think Abyss and Carina's are 'cash grabby' Don't do Alliance Wars Don't do Map 8
Comments
-----------------------------------
The line the community wants Kabam to draw-
I am perfectly fine with the title. I wont have it day one unless I semi-whale on this Friday. Ive completed every piece of content with t6b and t3a and also bought some Cyber Weekend/July 4th deals that had frags. The only thing i missed was the 10k offer which would have gotten me there.
I said from day one that TB was too easy, and I kinda like that Paragon or whatever its called it harder.(Sure its more p2w, but thats their choice)
I think they made a good choice as act 7 is too easy to hide a title behind, and other requirements such as base hero rating or prestige would have similar problems.
The only thing mildly angering is the fact that content will already be locked behind the title, but to be completely fair it has always been like that. I think kabam was kinda in a lose-lose situation here with regardless of the requirements there would be people already wayyy passed the requirements or too many people annoyed at the restrictions.
Im sure ill end up spending friday to get there because i havent really spent much this year so i wouldnt mind spending a bit for it.
Anyways, thats my thoughts and i respect all the other reasonable claims ive seen as everyone comes from a slightly different position.
With Spring Cleaning ahead, I’m stuck in No Man’s Land. I’m nowhere near Paragon so r4 materials don’t provide enough immediate return to be worth it. I have 20 r3 champs and catalysts and a gem collecting dust. R3 materials don’t really improve my roster much. Why bother…?
With that said, even with full 7.4 exploration, I'll only have max 2 R4s by May when this title drops.
However, I think this is 100% fine since it gives me more reason to be excited for the future events such as Act 8.1 as well as the next "Abyss" and the Eternity of Pain event.
In addition, the fact that there's a new progression level doesn't mean that Thronebreaker tier suddenly becomes bad. Your champs are still as strong, you still get the same price for cav crystals, etc.
I think the only people who will be affected by not being Paragon on day 1 are people in Plat 1/Master tier alliances but those players are almost certainly all going to comfortably have 3 R4s
If they really wanted us all to work towards it they can make it 5 r4 champions but that could upset the 1% and we can't have that. Kabam should really reconsider this one.
I'm not in a masters alliance only P1/P2, I didn't score high in gifting.
Plus for sigil, i only paid for 3 months to get Scarlet witch.
I don't think thats an unreasonable ammount to pay for a game.
In addition, I'd like to confirm that though I spend on the game, I have never received any R4 materials from spending since I don't get the Odin level deals. So I've never paid $$ for T3A or T6B.
So a fully FTP player could easily have the same level of R4s as me at the moment which is 2 full and around 1/3rd of my 3rd. Note that this is without finishing either carina challenge 1 or 2.
There should be something to chase further down instead of having a new tier be just an automatic promotion
Whether a player spends or not makes no difference to me. My intention was only to point out that 3 R3s was possible without whaling on R4 mat offers. (My humble apologies if I overstepped, good sir).
So hey, as long as Kabam doesn’t start lumping cavalier and thronebreaker rewards together…then hey, have at it you paragons!