**Mastery Loadouts**
Due to issues related to the release of Mastery Loadouts, the "free swap" period will be extended.
The new end date will be May 1st.

Introducing the next Campaign Progression Level: Paragon!

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Comments

  • HdhjssvvHdhjssvv Posts: 55
    They should have said 100% abyss for a new title that would have been easier then getting 3 rank 4 as of right now
  • HdhjssvvHdhjssvv Posts: 55

    Hdhjssvv said:

    Mackey said:

    Bottom line is no matter how they set the bar, someone is going to be offended. This isn't something that a great number of people are meant to have the day it comes out. It was the same for Thronebreaker.

    Clearly you are missing the point here... it shouldn't be available to everyone, I agree there BUT when they introduced thronebreaker title they had TWO pieces of content that gave the rewards to make 1x r3 6*, meaning people was able to obtain TB on day 1 with some hard work.

    That is not the same case as this new title.
    If it was set at 2 rank 4s people who had 100%ed act 7 but only have 1 rank 4 would complain about not having done gauntlet, SoP etc. People on the wrong side of it will always complain, it’s just human nature
    Yes but 2 is possible for f2p players without unit deals how is it fair that not grinding arena to buy unit deals means that am not good enough to be a paragon.
    Because they have to draw the line somewhere, and if they draw it too far back and make it too easy to get Paragon, the title becomes obsolete and doesn’t do what is required by it - to split players into suitable groups.

    Remember, this is only day 1. If too many people are paragon on day 1 then what’s the point in it? There’s plenty of time to get paragon in the future.
    Also missing out on paragon offers and getting a 5 star awakening gem for 6k units on July 4 deals as a end game player is kinda stupid
  • HdhjssvvHdhjssvv Posts: 55
    If they update abyss rewards to add a 3-4 gem that would make everything better abyss is way harder then act 7
  • techgrappletechgrapple Posts: 37
    I am done with all the content and still don't have the material to rank 3rd R4. If you meant that we must have spent 20,000 units to buy Act 7.4 exploration/completion deal, that sure is a crazy requirement to get the title. The game title must just be dependent on the progression level and not the champions I have. Keeping the requirement to have all content done 100% is just fine, but you guys eventually asking to pay $$$ to buy a Title like Summoner Sigil. Don't act like a Political Party.
  • Etm34Etm34 Posts: 1,644 ★★★★★
    Ignoring that the requirement should probably be 2 R4 6*, I wanted to give my thoughts on introducing Paragon at this moment:

    On an average month with no story content release we as Thronebreakers are already facing outdated quests with outdated rewards. The top difficulty of EQ is Cavalier, which for endgame TBs close to Paragon is already far too easy with rewards that don’t really improve their accounts much. The side quest top difficulty is legendary, which is also out of date. So by introducing Paragon, you’ve made the top monthly difficulty even more dated to the endgame player.

    On top of that, the daily objective crystal top level is still just cavalier. The 4 hour TB crystal generally sits unopened, as the average endgame TB has no content to use them on. The daily TB crystal is still good with relevant rewards. The best unit crystal in the game is still Cavalier, which is heavily outdated for the endgame TB.

    So, why introduce this title now if there’s really nothing that comes along with it? My thoughts on the requirements aside, I just don’t feel that as of now there is a reason to introduce this new title.
  • DrZolaDrZola Posts: 8,543 ★★★★★

    OGAvenger said:

    I’m not understanding peoples argument that it should be 2 instead of 3…and I have two rank 4’s myself. If you’d need 2, what’s wrong with 3? Is the only difference that with 2 you’d be a day 1 Paragon and with 3 you might have to wait a little? Why do you HAVE to be Paragon on day 1?

    I understand the complaint that they should put out the 7.4 10k unit offer again for those that explored it already but even that is stretching it a little.

    And anyone saying there shouldn’t have been a rank requirement for this title is living in a dream. You knew it was gonna happen. You’re just in denial…

    I agree that 7.4 10k offer should be put out. I also kind of think this should have even been announced before 7.4 dropped, so people could have made the decision at the time.
    This is a logical and fair argument, especially since it’s inconceivable the title wasn’t being worked on when 7.4 dropped. I would add that the offer should also be around at least a reasonable amount of time (i.e., not 24-hours) to allow players who want to grind+spend a decent shot at grabbing units.

    Dr. Zola
  • DrZolaDrZola Posts: 8,543 ★★★★★

    Polygon said:

    Eternity0 said:


    Yes, because heaven forbid they make money to keep developing the game. Super scummy.

    @Demonzfyre dude i have an honest question for you. Why are you this bitter to everyone's opinion Against kabam? Yea some people are annoying & say things without thinking the full picture. Even you can agree for Once! That its unfair to people who actually did content. Their justification to release the new title is absolutely garbage. I hope everyone around you give you some love my dude. You are really bitter in forum & i feel sad for you

    I feel you on this, time and time I’ve seen him throw nothing but shade and toxicity to community members of the forum. I understand sometimes people can complain which can be annoying, but to be bitter and show hostility to any player that disagrees with kabam is a bit too much.

    The best advice I could offer you is to just move on and hope that either he changes one day or that forum mods pick up on it and take action. Until then its best not to give it too much attention
    Sometimes they can complain? Just sometimes? Remember how 7.4 was announced and you could R4 a champ from 100%? Complaints because it wasn't generic.

    There were complaints about the Gauntlet content because it wasn't available to everyone and those who could do it but weren't prepared, complained it was too hard.

    Complaints about summer of pain being too hard.

    Complaints about every chapter of act 7 being released because the rewards weren't good enough.

    Remember that time that the community complained so hard about story content that they nerfed the difficulty to the ground and released the TB title early because it's not difficult enough to attach titles to anymore?

    This community doesn't sometimes complain, they always complain. There are legit reasons to be annoyed at Kabam like with the war pots situation and loyalty, but a title that is meant to challenge you to grow into, isn't one of them.

    We went through this with TB already. Everyone complained it was too hard to get. Now we have level 56 people getting that title. Not everything that is released needs to apply to you right away, you're going to have to work towards some things in this game.

    I'm not going to change and comments like yours and the other, keep me motivated to keep going.
    While I would tend to agree with you that unreasonable complaints exist on the forums, I think acting like *everyone* complains *all the time* is a mistake.

    *Some* complain, and some of those are the same folks. But it helps to recall that the forums are a tiny slice of the player base and even then there’s not unanimity along the forums denizens.

    Dr. Zola
  • SearmenisSearmenis Posts: 1,545 ★★★★★
    The worst thing in this, is that they tie, sort of, the title, to being part of a high rank alliance. 99% of players don't breath mcoc, many spenders among them, we do have jobs, families, friends etc, but not youtube channels, so we don't see this as a working experience (we don't get paid anyway) but as a game.
  • altavistaaltavista Posts: 1,285 ★★★★
    Geez, all of you are doing the standard Internet argument where you focus on one small incorrect thing as the brunt to ignore the whole post, or to actually elaborate on why you disagree.

    Whether ddom is a baby whale, a moderate spender, light spender, or mostly F2P, is just arguing semantics.

    The meat of the argument is that NON-WHALES are at the moment likely to have between 0 - 2 R4 6-stars. As long as there are avenues to obtain the required 3 R4 6-stars (which presumably Eternity of Pain will), Kabam isn't doing players dirty.

    I generally agree with OP. My main quibbles are that requirements do seem a little steep (2 R4 seems more palatable than 3 R4), and the manner of announcements seems a tad cynical.

    It is entirely right to call Kabam out if the math doesn't check out (ie. high tier Alliance is in fact required as opposed to optional) or they don't provide avenues in a reasonable timeframe. But I don't think wanting it Day 1 is a good argument.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 20,997 ★★★★★
    OGAvenger said:

    I’m not understanding peoples argument that it should be 2 instead of 3…and I have two rank 4’s myself. If you’d need 2, what’s wrong with 3? Is the only difference that with 2 you’d be a day 1 Paragon and with 3 you might have to wait a little? Why do you HAVE to be Paragon on day 1?

    I understand the complaint that they should put out the 7.4 10k unit offer again for those that explored it already but even that is stretching it a little.

    And anyone saying there shouldn’t have been a rank requirement for this title is living in a dream. You knew it was gonna happen. You’re just in denial…

    This 100%. The ones that are doing the most complaining are the ones that won't be Paragon day 1 so because of that, they think it's a garbage decision.

    What they aren't telling us that they aren't or haven't done everything they could be doing to get to 3 R4s. They can't imagine growing into a title so they want 2 r4s or 1 because that's where they're currently at.

    At 3 r4s, its a "pay to win or paywall", but 2 r4s is just fine somehow like people didn't spend to get 2 r4s or wouldn't spend to get another r4 in spring cleaning.

    FOMO is all it is.
  • Crys23Crys23 Posts: 728 ★★★★
    Kerneas said:

    I just think 3 r4s are simply too much.

    1 is guaranteed from Act 7, that's fair
    1 is in Carina's let's say, that's also fair (although some are incredible cashgrab for f2p players, looking at you LoL)

    And the third is nowhere to be found...yet. As it is now, I think 2 r4s would be more fair, unless they release Abyss 2 that will give it. But as of now it is literally impossible without paying (correct me if I am wrong please)

    But thats the idea. It has to be something you still have to work towards, not handed out on day1 to thousands of players, like TB was
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 20,997 ★★★★★
    Searmenis said:

    The worst thing in this, is that they tie, sort of, the title, to being part of a high rank alliance. 99% of players don't breath mcoc, many spenders among them, we do have jobs, families, friends etc, but not youtube channels, so we don't see this as a working experience (we don't get paid anyway) but as a game.

    No, they aren't trying anything to high rank alliances but rewards from top 45 AQ and plat 2 and above have r4 mats in them which is where Kabam is calculating being able to get a R4. Those rewards are available to those that can get them and they aren't a paid offer.

    I mean, those that play in those top alliances also have jobs and families. You don't have to spend $1000 a day and every waking moment to be in a top alliance. Not everyone in those top ally's are YouTubers either.
  • MackeyMackey Posts: 1,547 ★★★★★
    OGAvenger said:

    I’m not understanding peoples argument that it should be 2 instead of 3…and I have two rank 4’s myself. If you’d need 2, what’s wrong with 3? Is the only difference that with 2 you’d be a day 1 Paragon and with 3 you might have to wait a little? Why do you HAVE to be Paragon on day 1?

    I understand the complaint that they should put out the 7.4 10k unit offer again for those that explored it already but even that is stretching it a little.

    And anyone saying there shouldn’t have been a rank requirement for this title is living in a dream. You knew it was gonna happen. You’re just in denial…

    By that logic, why not 4 r4s or 5? 😂 I have none but think it should be 2 r4s being as the game has allowed you to gain that many by completing content etc without spending money or playing at higher tiers in aq and aw.

    I'm not fussed though really, just pitching in haha the title will no doubt find its way to my account eventually 😄
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 20,997 ★★★★★
    DrZola said:

    Polygon said:

    Eternity0 said:


    Yes, because heaven forbid they make money to keep developing the game. Super scummy.

    @Demonzfyre dude i have an honest question for you. Why are you this bitter to everyone's opinion Against kabam? Yea some people are annoying & say things without thinking the full picture. Even you can agree for Once! That its unfair to people who actually did content. Their justification to release the new title is absolutely garbage. I hope everyone around you give you some love my dude. You are really bitter in forum & i feel sad for you

    I feel you on this, time and time I’ve seen him throw nothing but shade and toxicity to community members of the forum. I understand sometimes people can complain which can be annoying, but to be bitter and show hostility to any player that disagrees with kabam is a bit too much.

    The best advice I could offer you is to just move on and hope that either he changes one day or that forum mods pick up on it and take action. Until then its best not to give it too much attention
    Sometimes they can complain? Just sometimes? Remember how 7.4 was announced and you could R4 a champ from 100%? Complaints because it wasn't generic.

    There were complaints about the Gauntlet content because it wasn't available to everyone and those who could do it but weren't prepared, complained it was too hard.

    Complaints about summer of pain being too hard.

    Complaints about every chapter of act 7 being released because the rewards weren't good enough.

    Remember that time that the community complained so hard about story content that they nerfed the difficulty to the ground and released the TB title early because it's not difficult enough to attach titles to anymore?

    This community doesn't sometimes complain, they always complain. There are legit reasons to be annoyed at Kabam like with the war pots situation and loyalty, but a title that is meant to challenge you to grow into, isn't one of them.

    We went through this with TB already. Everyone complained it was too hard to get. Now we have level 56 people getting that title. Not everything that is released needs to apply to you right away, you're going to have to work towards some things in this game.

    I'm not going to change and comments like yours and the other, keep me motivated to keep going.
    While I would tend to agree with you that unreasonable complaints exist on the forums, I think acting like *everyone* complains *all the time* is a mistake.

    *Some* complain, and some of those are the same folks. But it helps to recall that the forums are a tiny slice of the player base and even then there’s not unanimity along the forums denizens.

    Dr. Zola
    I should say forum community and not just community because you are correct. But in general, there is always complaints about everything. Not always the same people.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 20,997 ★★★★★

    I am done with all the content and still don't have the material to rank 3rd R4. If you meant that we must have spent 20,000 units to buy Act 7.4 exploration/completion deal, that sure is a crazy requirement to get the title. The game title must just be dependent on the progression level and not the champions I have. Keeping the requirement to have all content done 100% is just fine, but you guys eventually asking to pay $$$ to buy a Title like Summoner Sigil. Don't act like a Political Party.

    The offer was 9k units and it contained materials needed so, yes it's part of the equation just like all the other unit offers out there. Units are free in this game to get through arena.
  • Qwerty12345Qwerty12345 Posts: 765 ★★★
    Since most people can best relate to examples... let's take a look at a couple "current Thronebreakers" who are well known through youtube/other reasons: KT1 and ProfHoff.

    While both of these individuals have their fans and their haters, they are both Thronebreaker. Forgetting the spending for the moment, and just analyzing their accounts... one has barely squeaked by 7.4, still has a lot of content to do (including areas with most of the r4 materials), and the other... has literally done everything.

    I think by Kabam waiting this long to make a title after Thronebreaker, they have effectively let there be 3-4 different "levels of Thronebreaker", and set a very high bar for this new title, one which only a small percentage of TB's would qualify for.

    Maybe this would have been better accepted adding 2 new progression levels. Those who have indeed done everything all permanent content in the game (so explore through story mode, Variants, Labyrinth, and Abyss... but things like SOP wouldn't be a requirement)... would be the top level... and those who have just done 7.4, and say an initial clear of Abyss would be another new one. It shouldn't be tied to roster directly (that's fine for things with stores like incursions, but not this).
  • Yaron_avivYaron_aviv Posts: 37
    Crys23 said:

    Kerneas said:

    I just think 3 r4s are simply too much.

    1 is guaranteed from Act 7, that's fair
    1 is in Carina's let's say, that's also fair (although some are incredible cashgrab for f2p players, looking at you LoL)

    And the third is nowhere to be found...yet. As it is now, I think 2 r4s would be more fair, unless they release Abyss 2 that will give it. But as of now it is literally impossible without paying (correct me if I am wrong please)

    But thats the idea. It has to be something you still have to work towards, not handed out on day1 to thousands of players, like TB was
    That might have been a thing if it was just a title to
    Look forward to.
    It’s not. It’s a means to segregate the majority of active players and give them less of a bang for their buck. In fact, what TB got last Black Friday will be nerfed in upcoming deals. Expect no advanced rank up materials in their deals, just more of the same r3 materials which have become abundant.

    It widens the divide between spenders and non spenders immensely, and that will become glaring come July 4th deals.

  • Qwerty12345Qwerty12345 Posts: 765 ★★★
    This is "$5" is "mostly F2P... and people hating that its a binary you are or are not...

    Anyone who says you can't spend $5 on something or you are the devil... is a moron. Assuming of legal age, you've probably spent $5 for a drink before. Hopefully you had a good time, and it did send you into indentured servitude.

    At the end of the day... you have nothing to show for your $5.

    Who is the fool now?

    Look There is nothing wrong with spending as little or as much on a hobby/game as you want, so long as you can afford it, aren't addicted, and feel like you are getting value for your money. Whether that's having a drink, going to a sports game, buying season tickets, going on vacation, or buying a MCOC offer.

    What is unhealthy though is absolutists opinions. As Obi Wan said to Anakin... only Sith deal in absolutes. $5 does not mean you've gone to the dark side... but judging someone for it... well, let's at least call it a step along the path.
  • TyEdgeTyEdge Posts: 2,965 ★★★★★
    edited April 2022
    I wasn’t super thrilled with the Thronebreaker requirements, but I got it done about four months into its existence. One day after the paragon announcement, I was wondering why it made me so much angrier than Thronebreaker, and I finally figured it out.

    How close you are (or aren’t) to paragon is based in large part on how much short-life content you did. That content is gone and won’t come back (for the most part). The 10,000 unit offer in 7.4 is gone and won’t come back, if you already beat it.

    For Thronebreaker, once the requirements were laid out, I was able to look at what I had and chart a path through. I cleared variants 5 and 6 100% and spun those random 25%s. I cleared 6.4 and took the 25% selector there. I cleared 7.1 and hoped for a good spin. When I didn’t get it, I had units set aside for the 7.1 offer to get me the final frags I needed. I had been getting some small pieces through Cav EQ and side events, but nothing gamebreaking. Or, I could’ve just done abyss.

    So what about paragon? I did the gauntlet and 27/27 SOP. I only did one point on the finale because I was struggling with the relatively new input changes. I skipped the 10,000 unit offer after 7.4 figuring I could continue saving for top-flight July 4 offers. Those chances are gone and won’t return. When TB became the top status, cavalier offers actually got worse, and I expect the same here. What r4 mats can I get right now? Whatever Carina stuff I haven’t done, and some scraps in act 7. If I got every bit of available r4 materials right now, I might barely have enough for two, but nowhere near a third.

    In short, the problem is that they’ve announced a title with no way to get it besides waiting for content or spending.

  • Colinwhitworth69Colinwhitworth69 Posts: 7,176 ★★★★★
    Some players want to have the title now and not work for it.
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