Removal of Revive Farming and the Apothecary Discussion

Ironman3000 · March 24

GroundedWisdom said:

Ironman3000 said:
Because farming for 9 hours is just so easy and def wouldn't cost units on refills.
If someone is spending Units on that they're not thinking. 30 Units for an Energy Refill, 40 for a Rev.

I'm not sure if you understand the math here.

DNA3000 · March 24

Bocksarox said:
I've been trying to think of solutions that resemble an actual compromise. What if we had the ability to buy 20% revives with units? 20% health isn't enough health to do meaningful damage in many situations. Sure, Herc exists, but it would be fairly easy to create content that is Herc-proof through tags and/or nodes. I feel like DNA touched on this in the "AW Revives for 1 Loyalty" post: players will still need to heal.

Funny you should mention that, because I've been thinking of an idea along those lines. Or maybe it would be more precise to say: exactly opposite those lines. However, there's no point in tossing out a half-baked idea while emotions are running this high and we're all waiting for Change.org to kick in and cause Netmarble to reverse course (which worked so well for the other 70 petitions targeting the company).

I'm not even sure there is space to have any kind of objective discussion of outside the box ideas, to be honest. I may just formulate a suggestion directly to the devs and then post it on the forums after the fact. I will say that when people decide to get locked into an emotional fight, they reduce things to binary situations that don't reflect reality well. In this case, the binary situation is: we deserve to have however much revives we think we need to do whatever content we want, and we'll fight to get them back.

The problem is, that's a losing fight. Or to be more precise, that's a lost fight. That fight is over. Players might be able to get other things instead, if they chose to focus their energy in such directions. It is just unfortunate that appears unlikely.

Jefechuta · March 24

Ironman3000 said:

Jefechuta said:

Ironman3000 said:
Because farming for 9 hours is just so easy and def wouldn't cost units on refills.
When you have most of the content done, you dont use that much Energy, so you will have refills anyway, and it takes 1 refill to do 3 runs, not even talking about the refills you could get in that runs, so that point is senseless.

And yeah, farming for 9 hours is easy, it just takes time, but the time you use to farm 9 hours is worth it by far because you would get enough revives to do a succesful EoP run
9 hours of farming is ~90-100 refills. I have literally ALL of the content in the game and never have nearly that many refills in the stash.

You need to do the maths again fam

GroundedWisdom · March 24

Ironman3000 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Ironman3000 said:
Because farming for 9 hours is just so easy and def wouldn't cost units on refills.
If someone is spending Units on that they're not thinking. 30 Units for an Energy Refill, 40 for a Rev.
I'm not sure if you understand the math here.

Yes. 30 some Energy per Rev, providing it spawns.

Bocksarox · March 24

DNA3000 said:

Bocksarox said:
I've been trying to think of solutions that resemble an actual compromise. What if we had the ability to buy 20% revives with units? 20% health isn't enough health to do meaningful damage in many situations. Sure, Herc exists, but it would be fairly easy to create content that is Herc-proof through tags and/or nodes. I feel like DNA touched on this in the "AW Revives for 1 Loyalty" post: players will still need to heal.
Funny you should mention that, because I've been thinking of an idea along those lines. Or maybe it would be more precise to say: exactly opposite those lines. However, there's no point in tossing out a half-baked idea while emotions are running this high and we're all waiting for Change.org to kick in and cause Netmarble to reverse course (which worked so well for the other 70 petitions targeting the company).

I look forward to hearing whatever it is that you come up with. The devs have listened to you in the past, and I think your ideas have made a positive impact on this game.

Scopeotoe987 · March 24

GroundedWisdom said:

Scopeotoe987 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Mackey said:

GroundedWisdom said:
Time is money....when people are milking a valuable Resource in the game that's meant to help newer Players? I find that to be a bit ignorant to the actual in-game value of those.
Also, someone can Grind the Units to do that with 0 dollars. So no one HAS to spend.
So what you're saying is, it's perfectly fine for one to grind area and farm units (let's be fair that's why people grind arena) and spam revives with the units but it's not OK for people to spend the same amount of time farming revives from 3.2.6?

You're going on like we hit 1 button to farm 1 revive in 3.2.6 when in reality it's not that fast. If we can't farm revives by ingame content then we shouldn't be allowed to farm the units in arena
People actually invest time and energy into the Arena. They play the Fights to win the Units. They don't Auto-Play on repeat.
Last time I revive farmed it took me 9 hours to farm 50+ revives. MUCH more time to prep for the resources to even begin revive farming. Have you ever revive farmed before? Takes a lot more effort and preparation then just “auto play go brrrrr”.
50+ Revs in 9 hours of the game. You don't think that is beyond what they intend people to get? I'm also quite positive you weren't staring at the screen for 9 hours. I'm aware of the actual effort it takes to Auto. Click, click, repeat. I can do it while I'm watching TV or in a meeting. The "time and effort" is quite comical to me.

You know how much free time it takes to actually accomplish grinding these? You’re also correct, because I’m human and multitasking is what I do and quite frankly I can’t stare at a computer screen for the entirety of my day. 50+ revives for 9 hours of grinding the same quest is completely fair, and frankly a underestimate with the overall time I put into even begin farming these resources in the first place. I put my time into it, and I was able to get rewarded. Some runs I’d go 4 to 5 in a row without a single revive. Also I like how you avoid my question so I’m going with the fact you’ve never revive farmed in your life before. So your say has no weight unless you actually live a day in the life.

I’ll give you a preview, When I’m grinding for revives I do prep, that prep involves farming 4 hour crystals for typically 1 to 2 months, then I save 3,000 units. I complete Uncollected, Cavalier, and Thronebreaker EQ and purchase said 1k questing bundles for 30 energy refills. I then pop open my 4 hour crystals I’ve been saving for months. Then I spend 2 to 3 days grinding. Some days I have as much as 9 hours, some days I don’t. You can’t auto play EQ, you can’t auto play your way to get those units, and so far you rather go the hypocrite approach rather than weigh the scale of effort that is actually required to obtain these resources.

gohard123 · March 24

Fredhorst23 said:

gohard123 said:

Fredhorst23 said:
Like the starlord challenge for instance. I don't think it was designed to be a grind and revive challenge,I think it was designed when folks were posting vids of killing big bads with 3 and 4* for fun (and I think* pre sl nerf)
Absolute nonsense you've said here. The starlord challenge was released 4 years after 4* SL nerf. Even before the nerf, people who originally did LOL with 4* starlord spent a ton of revives and potions upwards of 2-3 odins. They had that data before releasing the challenge and still did so. To address the "killing big bads with 3 and 4*", MSD and the rest only showcased singular and non related fights eg Cav EQ bosses. That does not translate to LOL runs being done with 4* champions. In Fact more evidence for the challenge intended to be revive-spammed is the non-allowance of synergy members like guardians of the galaxy like the canadian or inhuman challenge
I mean that's fair enough. I couldn't remember when that stuff happened so you can take that out of there. Doesn't really change the other stuff I said. And what you're describing is a conception that all that high end content is meant to be done by the masses. Remember when we used to get in game mail when somebody would complete something crazy and everyone got a prize? That's because its content that isn't meant to be binged. Farming is great, im all about it as my diablo account can attest. But if folks are farming for 2 months to beat the collector or gm then something is being lost in translation. Again, I don't think they've done it right but I do see why they've done it.

Do you even know the history behind those in game mails? BrutalDLX went past Wolverine in ROL by just letting Wolverine hit electro because there were no champions to deal with his regen. Imagine that, content being revive-spammed from the genesis of end game content. There was no guillotine sp2, all they had was a 4* electro to deal electroshock reflect damage on contact. When HQSean fully explored LOL do you know how many odins they spent. The map was locked, imagine going in and making a wrong turn to abomination or x-23. When you get those in-game mails celebrating their accomplishment, remember that they revive-spammed that content

gohard123 · March 24

Fredhorst23 said:

gohard123 said:

Fredhorst23 said:

gohard123 said:

Fredhorst23 said:
Like the starlord challenge for instance. I don't think it was designed to be a grind and revive challenge,I think it was designed when folks were posting vids of killing big bads with 3 and 4* for fun (and I think* pre sl nerf)
Absolute nonsense you've said here. The starlord challenge was released 4 years after 4* SL nerf. Even before the nerf, people who originally did LOL with 4* starlord spent a ton of revives and potions upwards of 2-3 odins. They had that data before releasing the challenge and still did so. To address the "killing big bads with 3 and 4*", MSD and the rest only showcased singular and non related fights eg Cav EQ bosses. That does not translate to LOL runs being done with 4* champions. In Fact more evidence for the challenge intended to be revive-spammed is the non-allowance of synergy members like guardians of the galaxy like the canadian or inhuman challenge
I mean that's fair enough. I couldn't remember when that stuff happened so you can take that out of there. Doesn't really change the other stuff I said. And what you're describing is a conception that all that high end content is meant to be done by the masses. Remember when we used to get in game mail when somebody would complete something crazy and everyone got a prize? That's because its content that isn't meant to be binged. Farming is great, im all about it as my diablo account can attest. But if folks are farming for 2 months to beat the collector or gm then something is being lost in translation. Again, I don't think they've done it right but I do see why they've done it.
Do you even know the history behind those in game mails? BrutalDLX went past Wolverine in ROL by just letting Wolverine hit electro because there were no champions to deal with his regen. Imagine that, content being revive-spammed from the genesis of end game content. There was no guillotine sp2, all they had was a 4* electro to deal electroshock reflect damage on contact. When HQSean fully explored LOL do you know how many odins they spent. The map was locked, imagine going in and making a wrong turn to abomination or x-23. When you get those in-game mails celebrating their accomplishment, remember that they revive-spammed that content
My bad, I didn't realize they had auto-farmed act 3 everyday for a month to hoard enough revives.
I'm not sure how other dudes spending hundreds or thousands of dollars to complete content (and still needed tons of skill) entitles everyone else to have a free route to do the same.

My point is the content they release necessitates revive-spamming regardless of skill and that is the underlying problem here. The only reason they didnt auto-farm act 3 then was because it didnt exist. If it did exist they would have because the content Kabam releases requires farming to that extent.

BigBlueOx · March 24

GroundedWisdom said:

Fredhorst23 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Mackey said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Mackey said:

Jefechuta said:

Mackey said:
many people can dedicate 9 ready?
If only 10 people exploit it then the rest of players will not be affected by the change at all, and 6 hours farming revives is not equal to 20 revives, I got 15 in maybe 2 hours
Like I just replied to GW ... remove the auto play option then. Simple 🤷‍♂️ lucky you getting 15 in 2 hours, goes to show it can't be relied upon
What's the difference if the AI is doing it and we're doing it? It's still the exploitation of something intended for newer Players to have a hand with. It takes the same amount of time to Fight as it does to Auto (notwithstanding using Platpool).
I'm surprised at the lengths people are going to in order to minimize the issue.
"when they're clicking auto while they do everything from sit on the toilet to spend time with family?" Its quite clear youre saying the auto feature is the problem from this comment (and previous ones) .... I'm surprised at the lengths you're going to to maximise the issue.
The problem is people are milking the Revs from Act 3 beyond what the game should give them. That's the issue. We can run in circles but it's yet another thing that has to be adjusted because it's been taken advantage of. That's it.
I guess the question though is if you think the appropriate adjustments are included in the kabam post.
Well, I suppose that depends on how available Kabam wants them to be. A couple things I would consider is increasing the Inventory cap, which they're discussing. I'm not sure I would go so far as 99, as was suggested. Another aspect I think might help is perhaps one guaranteed Rev per EQ Difficulty. Let it spawn once, and that would add to the overall month.

I mean I know this is probably going to go absolutely positively nowhere, but please elaborate on why Kabam’s position on availability has anything to do with your personal take? Because that’s the question that was asked.

GroundedWisdom · March 24

BigBlueOx said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Fredhorst23 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Mackey said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Mackey said:

Jefechuta said:

Mackey said:
many people can dedicate 9 ready?
If only 10 people exploit it then the rest of players will not be affected by the change at all, and 6 hours farming revives is not equal to 20 revives, I got 15 in maybe 2 hours
Like I just replied to GW ... remove the auto play option then. Simple 🤷‍♂️ lucky you getting 15 in 2 hours, goes to show it can't be relied upon
What's the difference if the AI is doing it and we're doing it? It's still the exploitation of something intended for newer Players to have a hand with. It takes the same amount of time to Fight as it does to Auto (notwithstanding using Platpool).
I'm surprised at the lengths people are going to in order to minimize the issue.
"when they're clicking auto while they do everything from sit on the toilet to spend time with family?" Its quite clear youre saying the auto feature is the problem from this comment (and previous ones) .... I'm surprised at the lengths you're going to to maximise the issue.
The problem is people are milking the Revs from Act 3 beyond what the game should give them. That's the issue. We can run in circles but it's yet another thing that has to be adjusted because it's been taken advantage of. That's it.
I guess the question though is if you think the appropriate adjustments are included in the kabam post.
Well, I suppose that depends on how available Kabam wants them to be. A couple things I would consider is increasing the Inventory cap, which they're discussing. I'm not sure I would go so far as 99, as was suggested. Another aspect I think might help is perhaps one guaranteed Rev per EQ Difficulty. Let it spawn once, and that would add to the overall month.
I mean I know this is probably going to go absolutely positively nowhere, but please elaborate on why Kabam’s position on availability has anything to do with your personal take? Because that’s the question that was asked.

I tend to suggest things I believe would be in line with their objectives as well, to the best of my knowledge of what their objectives are.

GroundedWisdom · March 25

BigBlueOx said:

GroundedWisdom said:

BigBlueOx said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Fredhorst23 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Mackey said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Mackey said:

Jefechuta said:

Mackey said:
many people can dedicate 9 ready?
If only 10 people exploit it then the rest of players will not be affected by the change at all, and 6 hours farming revives is not equal to 20 revives, I got 15 in maybe 2 hours
Like I just replied to GW ... remove the auto play option then. Simple 🤷‍♂️ lucky you getting 15 in 2 hours, goes to show it can't be relied upon
What's the difference if the AI is doing it and we're doing it? It's still the exploitation of something intended for newer Players to have a hand with. It takes the same amount of time to Fight as it does to Auto (notwithstanding using Platpool).
I'm surprised at the lengths people are going to in order to minimize the issue.
"when they're clicking auto while they do everything from sit on the toilet to spend time with family?" Its quite clear youre saying the auto feature is the problem from this comment (and previous ones) .... I'm surprised at the lengths you're going to to maximise the issue.
The problem is people are milking the Revs from Act 3 beyond what the game should give them. That's the issue. We can run in circles but it's yet another thing that has to be adjusted because it's been taken advantage of. That's it.
I guess the question though is if you think the appropriate adjustments are included in the kabam post.
Well, I suppose that depends on how available Kabam wants them to be. A couple things I would consider is increasing the Inventory cap, which they're discussing. I'm not sure I would go so far as 99, as was suggested. Another aspect I think might help is perhaps one guaranteed Rev per EQ Difficulty. Let it spawn once, and that would add to the overall month.
I mean I know this is probably going to go absolutely positively nowhere, but please elaborate on why Kabam’s position on availability has anything to do with your personal take? Because that’s the question that was asked.
I tend to suggest things I believe would be in line with their objectives as well, to the best of my knowledge of what their objectives are.
But what’s is your take as an independent thinking person? Why do you have to estimate their objectives prior to forming a thought? Honestly, I’m happy to concede that endless revive farming is bad for the game and a change is needed. But I’m curious on your individual opinion on if the proposed correction is appropriate at the moment?

I'm pretty sure I offered what I would suggest in addition to that.

Batman_bruce31 · March 25

Dudes.... kabam is missing a major point here...
It's not like we snap our fingers and 1000 revives randomly fall into our inventory....
We have to spend our energy refills and hundreds of Hours on the game to earn those...
Basically we were trading our time and energy refills for revives

Bugmat78 · March 25

Batman_bruce31 said:
Dudes.... kabam is missing a major point here...
It's not like we snap our fingers and 1000 revives randomly fall into our inventory....
We have to spend our energy refills and hundreds of Hours on the game to earn those...
Basically we were trading our time and energy refills for revives

But they really only want your money...not necessarily your time. They only want your time for it to turn into money. The free revives was reducing this equation far too much. If they could get you to log in for 1 minute and pay for an odin's worth of revives it is better than you logging in for 12 hours to grind that.

I am surprised it's taking days for them to bring us the compromise.

GroundedWisdom · March 25

BigBlueOx said:

GroundedWisdom said:

BigBlueOx said:

GroundedWisdom said:

BigBlueOx said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Fredhorst23 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Mackey said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Mackey said:

Jefechuta said:

Mackey said:
many people can dedicate 9 ready?
If only 10 people exploit it then the rest of players will not be affected by the change at all, and 6 hours farming revives is not equal to 20 revives, I got 15 in maybe 2 hours
Like I just replied to GW ... remove the auto play option then. Simple 🤷‍♂️ lucky you getting 15 in 2 hours, goes to show it can't be relied upon
What's the difference if the AI is doing it and we're doing it? It's still the exploitation of something intended for newer Players to have a hand with. It takes the same amount of time to Fight as it does to Auto (notwithstanding using Platpool).
I'm surprised at the lengths people are going to in order to minimize the issue.
"when they're clicking auto while they do everything from sit on the toilet to spend time with family?" Its quite clear youre saying the auto feature is the problem from this comment (and previous ones) .... I'm surprised at the lengths you're going to to maximise the issue.
The problem is people are milking the Revs from Act 3 beyond what the game should give them. That's the issue. We can run in circles but it's yet another thing that has to be adjusted because it's been taken advantage of. That's it.
I guess the question though is if you think the appropriate adjustments are included in the kabam post.
Well, I suppose that depends on how available Kabam wants them to be. A couple things I would consider is increasing the Inventory cap, which they're discussing. I'm not sure I would go so far as 99, as was suggested. Another aspect I think might help is perhaps one guaranteed Rev per EQ Difficulty. Let it spawn once, and that would add to the overall month.
I mean I know this is probably going to go absolutely positively nowhere, but please elaborate on why Kabam’s position on availability has anything to do with your personal take? Because that’s the question that was asked.
I tend to suggest things I believe would be in line with their objectives as well, to the best of my knowledge of what their objectives are.
But what’s is your take as an independent thinking person? Why do you have to estimate their objectives prior to forming a thought? Honestly, I’m happy to concede that endless revive farming is bad for the game and a change is needed. But I’m curious on your individual opinion on if the proposed correction is appropriate at the moment?
I'm pretty sure I offered what I would suggest in addition to that.
Did you? Then why not state it here in plain words?

If you're interested in engaging with me in an actual conversation, I'm all ears. If you're just going to dance around my words, then I can use my time better.

DNA3000 · March 25

Batman_bruce31 said:
Dudes.... kabam is missing a major point here...
It's not like we snap our fingers and 1000 revives randomly fall into our inventory....
We have to spend our energy refills and hundreds of Hours on the game to earn those...
Basically we were trading our time and energy refills for revives

I hope no one was doing that. I could snap my fingers and make fifty revives show up at the cost of no net energy refills (just the ones that show up on the map itself) and almost zero time by just starting the map, picking the appropriate path, turn on auto fight, and go do something else, for about a weeks worth of energy.

I'm usually done with monthly EQ with something like a week and a half to go. I'm generally burning that energy on one of two things. If I'm planning on doing anything that might require revives, I autofight 3.2.6 until I have a ton of them. If not, I'm burning that energy in the ISO quests, either by autocomplete or by just autofighting through them. These resources are for all intents and purposes, completely free.

If I needed more than fifty or sixty revives for something, I could simply farm them in the last week and a half of one month, then continue for another week and a half at the start of the next month, knowing this would not impair my ability to complete everything I want, and then end up with something like 120 revives or so. Again, while costing nothing except energy that would otherwise expire anyway, and essentially zero actual time spent in the game.

To put the time expense into perspective, 3.2.6 farming requires something on the order of about six to ten taps on the screen every five to seven hours. For context, this is comparable to the amount of time I spend collecting and opening free crystals in the game.

If ever I needed a thousand revives, with the current maps I could get those without seriously compromising my ability to do monthly EQ in about six months, at the cost of about six to eight collective hours of my actual attention span. If anyone thinks this was hard, expensive, or time consuming, they were not doing it optimally. It was in fact none of those things.

We can legitimately discuss if the content is properly balanced against the availability of revives, I think that's fair game. But anyone who tries to make the argument that these revives were not trivial to acquire and were some kind of small reward for the high level of effort it took to get them simply did not do this themselves enough to understand just how free flowing these revives were.

Shadow_Shooter · March 25

DNA3000 said:

Batman_bruce31 said:
Dudes.... kabam is missing a major point here...
It's not like we snap our fingers and 1000 revives randomly fall into our inventory....
We have to spend our energy refills and hundreds of Hours on the game to earn those...
Basically we were trading our time and energy refills for revives
I hope no one was doing that. I could snap my fingers and make fifty revives show up at the cost of no net energy refills (just the ones that show up on the map itself) and almost zero time by just starting the map, picking the appropriate path, turn on auto fight, and go do something else, for about a weeks worth of energy.

I'm usually done with monthly EQ with something like a week and a half to go. I'm generally burning that energy on one of two things. If I'm planning on doing anything that might require revives, I autofight 3.2.6 until I have a ton of them. If not, I'm burning that energy in the ISO quests, either by autocomplete or by just autofighting through them. These resources are for all intents and purposes, completely free.

If I needed more than fifty or sixty revives for something, I could simply farm them in the last week and a half of one month, then continue for another week and a half at the start of the next month, knowing this would not impair my ability to complete everything I want, and then end up with something like 120 revives or so. Again, while costing nothing except energy that would otherwise expire anyway, and essentially zero actual time spent in the game.

To put the time expense into perspective, 3.2.6 farming requires something on the order of about six to ten taps on the screen every five to seven hours. For context, this is comparable to the amount of time I spend collecting and opening free crystals in the game.

If ever I needed a thousand revives, with the current maps I could get those without seriously compromising my ability to do monthly EQ in about six months, at the cost of about six to eight collective hours of my actual attention span. If anyone thinks this was hard, expensive, or time consuming, they were not doing it optimally. It was in fact none of those things.

We can legitimately discuss if the content is properly balanced against the availability of revives, I think that's fair game. But anyone who tries to make the argument that these revives were not trivial to acquire and were some kind of small reward for the high level of effort it took to get them simply did not do this themselves enough to understand just how free flowing these revives were.

No one’s going to reward you for your sore tongue though.

DNA3000 · March 25

Shadow_Shooter said:

DNA3000 said:

Batman_bruce31 said:
Dudes.... kabam is missing a major point here...
It's not like we snap our fingers and 1000 revives randomly fall into our inventory....
We have to spend our energy refills and hundreds of Hours on the game to earn those...
Basically we were trading our time and energy refills for revives
I hope no one was doing that. I could snap my fingers and make fifty revives show up at the cost of no net energy refills (just the ones that show up on the map itself) and almost zero time by just starting the map, picking the appropriate path, turn on auto fight, and go do something else, for about a weeks worth of energy.

I'm usually done with monthly EQ with something like a week and a half to go. I'm generally burning that energy on one of two things. If I'm planning on doing anything that might require revives, I autofight 3.2.6 until I have a ton of them. If not, I'm burning that energy in the ISO quests, either by autocomplete or by just autofighting through them. These resources are for all intents and purposes, completely free.

If I needed more than fifty or sixty revives for something, I could simply farm them in the last week and a half of one month, then continue for another week and a half at the start of the next month, knowing this would not impair my ability to complete everything I want, and then end up with something like 120 revives or so. Again, while costing nothing except energy that would otherwise expire anyway, and essentially zero actual time spent in the game.

To put the time expense into perspective, 3.2.6 farming requires something on the order of about six to ten taps on the screen every five to seven hours. For context, this is comparable to the amount of time I spend collecting and opening free crystals in the game.

If ever I needed a thousand revives, with the current maps I could get those without seriously compromising my ability to do monthly EQ in about six months, at the cost of about six to eight collective hours of my actual attention span. If anyone thinks this was hard, expensive, or time consuming, they were not doing it optimally. It was in fact none of those things.

We can legitimately discuss if the content is properly balanced against the availability of revives, I think that's fair game. But anyone who tries to make the argument that these revives were not trivial to acquire and were some kind of small reward for the high level of effort it took to get them simply did not do this themselves enough to understand just how free flowing these revives were.
No one’s going to reward you for your sore tongue though.

You'd be surprised what the reward is for maintaining objectivity in the face of irrational and childish negativity. Someone's going to look at this post and say "yeah, good one." And someone else is going to say "well that was uncalled for" and probably think twice about what I posted just because they are going to want to know if it was indeed a reasonable response.

Reasonable people's time and attention is the most valuable thing I can possibly accrue, here. It is extremely difficult to earn. But sometimes, someone comes along and unintentionally makes it just a little bit easier.

Also, 327 more disagrees and I get a set of Forum Guardian steak knives.

pseudosane · March 25

Folks, kabam is most probably reading all of this and hopefully comes up with a good compromise. Plenty of good material in here.

All we need to do is remain constructive and ignore the common derailer. Eyes on the prize folks.

Typhoon · March 25

pseudosane said:
Folks, kabam is most probably reading all of this and hopefully comes up with a good compromise. Plenty of good material in here.

All we need to do is remain constructive and ignore the common derailer. Eyes on the prize folks.

Just curious when we will see what their response is. I think a lot of people are waiting to see what it looks like before making any sudden decisions. Not sure there’s anything left for the community to say really. Everyone has a done a great job speaking their piece.

Boogaloogler · March 25

Jefechuta said:

Kiptonade said:
Never ceases to amaze me how many people engage with a forum account with almost 100k disagrees. It’s best left ignored!
Statistically, around 80% of the population has average or bellow capacities/intelligence/IQ or whatever you wanna call it, so its senseless to state that fam, because its way more likely than most of the people are wrong than right, or they are more likely to be wrong than to be right.

He can be wrong, but your statement is absurd, just remember most of the people back then thought the Earth was flat, or that everything rotated around the Earth, and they would punish you if you said otherwise.

This is amazing. Literally everything you just said is factually incorrect.

GrampaDan · March 25

DNA3000 said:

Batman_bruce31 said:
Dudes.... kabam is missing a major point here...
It's not like we snap our fingers and 1000 revives randomly fall into our inventory....
We have to spend our energy refills and hundreds of Hours on the game to earn those...
Basically we were trading our time and energy refills for revives
I hope no one was doing that. I could snap my fingers and make fifty revives show up at the cost of no net energy refills (just the ones that show up on the map itself) and almost zero time by just starting the map, picking the appropriate path, turn on auto fight, and go do something else, for about a weeks worth of energy.

I'm usually done with monthly EQ with something like a week and a half to go. I'm generally burning that energy on one of two things. If I'm planning on doing anything that might require revives, I autofight 3.2.6 until I have a ton of them. If not, I'm burning that energy in the ISO quests, either by autocomplete or by just autofighting through them. These resources are for all intents and purposes, completely free.

If I needed more than fifty or sixty revives for something, I could simply farm them in the last week and a half of one month, then continue for another week and a half at the start of the next month, knowing this would not impair my ability to complete everything I want, and then end up with something like 120 revives or so. Again, while costing nothing except energy that would otherwise expire anyway, and essentially zero actual time spent in the game.

To put the time expense into perspective, 3.2.6 farming requires something on the order of about six to ten taps on the screen every five to seven hours. For context, this is comparable to the amount of time I spend collecting and opening free crystals in the game.

If ever I needed a thousand revives, with the current maps I could get those without seriously compromising my ability to do monthly EQ in about six months, at the cost of about six to eight collective hours of my actual attention span. If anyone thinks this was hard, expensive, or time consuming, they were not doing it optimally. It was in fact none of those things.

We can legitimately discuss if the content is properly balanced against the availability of revives, I think that's fair game. But anyone who tries to make the argument that these revives were not trivial to acquire and were some kind of small reward for the high level of effort it took to get them simply did not do this themselves enough to understand just how free flowing these revives were.

So lets redirect the conversation back to how overtuned current content is in the face of trivialised revive farming, because I think this is the serious conversation that needs to be have. Since 2021, outside of Story content, content has been made arbitrarily difficult due to uninteractive and unavoidable damage. For a recent example, go check out EOP Peni, the fight is literally slowly killing you over time and with how Peni's mechanics you aren't just able to 'skillfully' navigate around the fight effectively enough, with the beefy 7* defenders they have put in place. A lot of people are worried now that people have had access to a 'free ride' to a R5 and now other players are going to be isolated and miss out. That is a real concern, just like how Gauntlet was unintentionally repeatable, it's going to create dissonance among players. The lack of comment on how future content will be like, is extremely concerning, content should be challenging but it shouldn't be designed to be a resource glut which is how content has ended up being designed recently.

On another note, Kabam has clearly also shown us they are capable of making fights that require skill and cannot be revive spammed.

EOP Thanos, you can't deal damage to him unless you special intercept (whilst also only hitting his block to gain power whilst avoiding thorns damage) in his first phase, and that you have to intercept to get openings to actually deal damage in his final phase
Grandmaster and Gwenmaster, cannot be effectively damaged until prompts are completed and have triggered their wounded phase (at least God forbid we dont see anybody spamming revives to do 0.1% each round).

Revives definitely need to be nerfed, but its a two-way street and content should be designed to be skill-fully cleared and not just be a revive fest which is what is also guilty of allowing this to happen in the first place. Instead of having a timer to death, why not just keep adding skill caps and manoeuvres to deal damage in the first place?

BigPoppaCBONE · March 25

DNA3000 said:

To put the time expense into perspective, 3.2.6 farming requires something on the order of about six to ten taps on the screen every five to seven hours.

Did I miss something, or do you have some kind of special autofight or macro the rest of us don't have? Even with autofight, I have to find the path with the revive/energy refill (if there is one and there usually is) or consolation prize potion, pick the path, autofinish the path (which only takes a few minutes at most) and replay to do it all over again or exit to go to another quest revive spot. If you leave it alone, it just sits there. It's still tremendously less involved than manually doing it, but it's not set it and forget it, plug your phone in, wander off, and come back later to dozens of freshly farmed revives. Or did you mean minutes?

firedood · March 25

Theres a group of players who try to maximise progression, non casual. This game requires a moderate to high level of commitment in time to achieve that. Between AW AQ, incursions, battlegrounds, thats already a good 2 hours a day to say the least. Add in f2p attempts to grind resources via minimalist arena? Upwards of 3hrs daily?

Long form everest type content dictates revive usage. A solo we see on youtube is not the norm (duh). This has been mentioned several times. Anyone listening?

So paragraph 1 = f2p demands time/commitment. Potions, seldom mentioned but grindable.

Paragraph 2 = Everest content dictates usage of under lets say…30 revives if Kabam decides to be generous and double the cap. Failing which, players either choose to restart at a later date after recovering stash, or do Kabam’s favorite thing.

All anyones need to do to increase revenue is make the boss or late fights so difficult that no one would wanna restart and just do Kabam’s favorite thing.

willrun4adonut · March 25

I would love to see their revive farming numbers from the time they made this announcement to the time the update kicks in.

Removal of Revive Farming and the Apothecary Discussion

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