You are welcome to discuss the challenges and have your thoughts on them, but I want to be very clear, attacking any one of our creators directly will not be tolerated. Nobody "betrayed the community" by doing exactly what was asked, to create extremely hard content.
We will not tolerate any form of personal attacks, and we will take action on your game account if we think that it is necessary.
I'm not gonna fight the jailing as my cell is pretty cushy but everyone that agreed with me should also technically be jailed or at least warned with this logic.
Snitches get stitches...
Hey man I'm still rereading my original comment to find the personal attack on fintech lol we'll get to the snitches get stitches in a minute 😂
After more thought, These challenges, aren't hard, or extremely difficult, they're impossible unless you spend, sorry that not a challenge if you ask me, it's plain old pay to win, and buying rewards combined with an absolute chore.. I will still say, lagacys one, is well thought out, it's a specific quest with a specific champ, that's not too long, not impossible to do with saved resources.. the other 2, I won't bash them personally, but they look lazy, let's take 2 peices of content that are a slog and a bit of a resource grab and champ limit them.. not much thought at all . I could come up with 00's of better fights to release into the game that would require skill, maybe resources and a hard counter, and I bet 99% of end gamers could..
First challenge I will be skipping since they came out. Kinda glad the rewards are this mediocre looking. Would have been different if there had been a few rank 2 gems and maybe a rank 3 as well. No Fomo for me.
You are welcome to discuss the challenges and have your thoughts on them, but I want to be very clear, attacking any one of our creators directly will not be tolerated. Nobody "betrayed the community" by doing exactly what was asked, to create extremely hard content.
We will not tolerate any form of personal attacks, and we will take action on your game account if we think that it is necessary.
I'm not gonna fight the jailing as my cell is pretty cushy but everyone that agreed with me should also technically be jailed or at least warned with this logic.
I didn't agree with you but damn what a snitch lmao
You are welcome to discuss the challenges and have your thoughts on them, but I want to be very clear, attacking any one of our creators directly will not be tolerated. Nobody "betrayed the community" by doing exactly what was asked, to create extremely hard content.
We will not tolerate any form of personal attacks, and we will take action on your game account if we think that it is necessary.
Honestly have to wonder though if the community is this misaligned with the CCP then perhaps this might be why Kabam and the community are completely misaligned on things like this as well. It might be worth looking at the CCP makeup to assess if it accurately represents the community
I would love to play WOW... don't want to waste so many revievs for just 7* crystal and that 7* selector...after 2-3 month these will be outdated...will do these when I have nothing left to do...with revive orr they are going to expire...
For now WOW is much bigger thing than these garbage reward..
And offcourse these objectives and garbage rewards not on the lagacy, karatemike, fintech..they just did their thier part..m
If we talk about fintech objective i have to complete EOP all 16 annoying defender and then Thanos with jabari and tigra...I don't even know how much resources it will cost me..for single objective then i will get 5k 7* shards...
What a joke...
You do not have to do anything that you don't want to do, and this is not content that is required to progress. Sure, you may feel you need to do one for the Deathless King Groot piece, but you have plenty of time to do that because this is permanent content.
This content is meant to be hard; it's meant to take time and cost you resources or be a hard skill check. We have never said that content needs to be done itemless, and we don't design content on that basis. If you want these rewards, you're either gonna have to be really skilled or be ready to use your stash of revives and potions.
There are plenty of times that you will get rewards for doing absolutely nothing in-game. A pretty juicy Valentine's Day calendar is doing that right now. If you look at this content, which is completely optional and is permanent content that you can take on whenever you want, and think it's not worth your time or resources, then you aren't required to do it.
The game will always have extremely difficult content, just like there always has been. Realm of Legends was completed with 3 and 4-Star Champions with extremely basic abilities. Labyrinth had people using 5-Stars, but the Champions that did it at the time weren't much better. Both of those were done before Revive farming was ever a thing, and having that Everest content, that insane challenge ahead of you, was and continues to be a good thing for the game. It's the same for WoW. People have built their skills and rosters for a while, and they should have something to challenge them and reward them for all of that work.
I get that you might feel that "extremely challenging" should fit a certain description, but that's not really fair. We will always be pushing the envelope on what content can be, whether it's more difficult, or meant for more and more players, or just something whacky and zaney, and it will not always fit your ideal picture of what it could be.
You are welcome to discuss the challenges and have your thoughts on them, but I want to be very clear, attacking any one of our creators directly will not be tolerated. Nobody "betrayed the community" by doing exactly what was asked, to create extremely hard content.
We will not tolerate any form of personal attacks, and we will take action on your game account if we think that it is necessary.
So according to Kabam logic, is "extremely hard content" just a revive spam? Because I don't see how doing Gauntlet with just Zemo is skillful because of some defenders like Korg and Ham in there who will be the worst.
Perhaps I can ask the question more productively: Im a valiant player, typically celestial-ish in BGs (until I stop playing mid season lol), and lets say I have each of these characters maxed, ascended and ready to go. If I start at 0 revives and 0 units and I dont mean to spend money, just how much time does kabam expect me to invest to clear this content?
Now lets say Im not me, and that Im just an average valiant in terms of skill but start from the same place roster wise and resource wise- just how much time is meant to be targeted to being able to clear this?
At this point it seems like the answer is being measured in months if not longer. We simply need better avenues for resource acquisition without which the pursuit of late stage content wont just be slowed… it just wont happen- exactly as we saw with abyss. What happens when the resource acquisition takes longer than the period of relevance for the content? Kabam claimed that revive spamming trivialized the content (and later clarified that meant actually time investment was trivializing it). Is producing content people will simply opt out of not also trivializing?
If you look at the rewards... The only resource is a 7* 1-2 gem.. The rest is champ shards (straight up rng gamble), and a "trophy champ" piece...
I agree. The rewards are already close to being phased out in the end game for the with the only real determinant being how much you value those 3 champs (most of their value coming from BGs which is also in a bad state reward wise funny enough). Honestly shocked there isn't a single titan shard.
But for the sake of argument we can even grant them that the players might value these champs at the same level of r3 mats. I just want to know how long they expect you to spend acquiring resources to clear this content. Whats a general range of time you could spend targeted efforts to get toward this? The answer seems to be months and thats a massive far cry from where the game was when we could acquire revives more easily. The shock seems too great
I dont understand why Kabam put all this effort in creating such BS challenges, designed for very few top players (or a few more masochistic ones). I'm really concerned about the elitist direction the game is taking...
I would love to play WOW... don't want to waste so many revievs for just 7* crystal and that 7* selector...after 2-3 month these will be outdated...will do these when I have nothing left to do...with revive orr they are going to expire...
For now WOW is much bigger thing than these garbage reward..
And offcourse these objectives and garbage rewards not on the lagacy, karatemike, fintech..they just did their thier part..m
If we talk about fintech objective i have to complete EOP all 16 annoying defender and then Thanos with jabari and tigra...I don't even know how much resources it will cost me..for single objective then i will get 5k 7* shards...
What a joke...
You do not have to do anything that you don't want to do, and this is not content that is required to progress. Sure, you may feel you need to do one for the Deathless King Groot piece, but you have plenty of time to do that because this is permanent content.
This content is meant to be hard; it's meant to take time and cost you resources or be a hard skill check. We have never said that content needs to be done itemless, and we don't design content on that basis. If you want these rewards, you're either gonna have to be really skilled or be ready to use your stash of revives and potions.
There are plenty of times that you will get rewards for doing absolutely nothing in-game. A pretty juicy Valentine's Day calendar is doing that right now. If you look at this content, which is completely optional and is permanent content that you can take on whenever you want, and think it's not worth your time or resources, then you aren't required to do it.
The game will always have extremely difficult content, just like there always has been. Realm of Legends was completed with 3 and 4-Star Champions with extremely basic abilities. Labyrinth had people using 5-Stars, but the Champions that did it at the time weren't much better. Both of those were done before Revive farming was ever a thing, and having that Everest content, that insane challenge ahead of you, was and continues to be a good thing for the game. It's the same for WoW. People have built their skills and rosters for a while, and they should have something to challenge them and reward them for all of that work.
I get that you might feel that "extremely challenging" should fit a certain description, but that's not really fair. We will always be pushing the envelope on what content can be, whether it's more difficult, or meant for more and more players, or just something whacky and zaney, and it will not always fit your ideal picture of what it could be.
Why does hard have to be defined as a resource black hole of the 8th circuit? Show people doing this with a reasonable spend maybe.
I would love to play WOW... don't want to waste so many revievs for just 7* crystal and that 7* selector...after 2-3 month these will be outdated...will do these when I have nothing left to do...with revive orr they are going to expire...
For now WOW is much bigger thing than these garbage reward..
And offcourse these objectives and garbage rewards not on the lagacy, karatemike, fintech..they just did their thier part..m
If we talk about fintech objective i have to complete EOP all 16 annoying defender and then Thanos with jabari and tigra...I don't even know how much resources it will cost me..for single objective then i will get 5k 7* shards...
What a joke...
You do not have to do anything that you don't want to do, and this is not content that is required to progress. Sure, you may feel you need to do one for the Deathless King Groot piece, but you have plenty of time to do that because this is permanent content.
This content is meant to be hard; it's meant to take time and cost you resources or be a hard skill check. We have never said that content needs to be done itemless, and we don't design content on that basis. If you want these rewards, you're either gonna have to be really skilled or be ready to use your stash of revives and potions.
There are plenty of times that you will get rewards for doing absolutely nothing in-game. A pretty juicy Valentine's Day calendar is doing that right now. If you look at this content, which is completely optional and is permanent content that you can take on whenever you want, and think it's not worth your time or resources, then you aren't required to do it.
The game will always have extremely difficult content, just like there always has been. Realm of Legends was completed with 3 and 4-Star Champions with extremely basic abilities. Labyrinth had people using 5-Stars, but the Champions that did it at the time weren't much better. Both of those were done before Revive farming was ever a thing, and having that Everest content, that insane challenge ahead of you, was and continues to be a good thing for the game. It's the same for WoW. People have built their skills and rosters for a while, and they should have something to challenge them and reward them for all of that work.
I get that you might feel that "extremely challenging" should fit a certain description, but that's not really fair. We will always be pushing the envelope on what content can be, whether it's more difficult, or meant for more and more players, or just something whacky and zaney, and it will not always fit your ideal picture of what it could be.
Sorry, but like I said, there's hard, then there's impossible (without spending) and that's not what a games about.. you're so out of touch with the community and actually, I believe the CCP is too, no average paragon or valiant player is at that level, where they nearly always have units in the thousands, revives expiring, access to rank up resources and top rewards because of where their alliance is.. no, most topish end players arent close to that, but we are where we are because we casually spend, and have dedication to the game, but lately we feel so ignored and like you are pushing us away with awful and blatent ptw content.. btw I love the game and community, but I feel as if we are starting to be fleeced .
You are welcome to discuss the challenges and have your thoughts on them, but I want to be very clear, attacking any one of our creators directly will not be tolerated. Nobody "betrayed the community" by doing exactly what was asked, to create extremely hard content.
We will not tolerate any form of personal attacks, and we will take action on your game account if we think that it is necessary.
So according to Kabam logic, is "extremely hard content" just a revive spam? Because I don't see how doing Gauntlet with just Zemo is skillful because of some defenders like Korg and Ham in there who will be the worst.
How would you define difficult content? If it's difficult it implies a high likelihood of failure. How do you continue after failure?
We intentionally make this super difficult content optional. Yes, we encourage you to do it in different ways, but if you wanted to completely ignore it you can. (I have a long list of Carina's Challenges that will remain untouched for a long long time)
The revive farm was removed and as a result, content got harder. Meanwhile we were lead to believe content would be more practical now that people didn’t have access to infinite free revives. They got us lol
It feels like this game is no longer for regular players. It’s just for those with insane skills that have no problem spending a lot of money at every new event. I think a lot of us are holding on because of the sunk cost fallacy and it’s sad to see the direction this game is going.
Perhaps I can ask the question more productively: Im a valiant player, typically celestial-ish in BGs (until I stop playing mid season lol), and lets say I have each of these characters maxed, ascended and ready to go. If I start at 0 revives and 0 units and I dont mean to spend money, just how much time does kabam expect me to invest to clear this content?
Now lets say Im not me, and that Im just an average valiant in terms of skill but start from the same place roster wise and resource wise- just how much time is meant to be targeted to being able to clear this?
At this point it seems like the answer is being measured in months if not longer. We simply need better avenues for resource acquisition without which the pursuit of late stage content wont just be slowed… it just wont happen- exactly as we saw with abyss. What happens when the resource acquisition takes longer than the period of relevance for the content? Kabam claimed that revive spamming trivialized the content (and later clarified that meant actually time investment was trivializing it). Is producing content people will simply opt out of not also trivializing?
If you look at the rewards... The only resource is a 7* 1-2 gem.. The rest is champ shards (straight up rng gamble), and a "trophy champ" piece...
I agree. The rewards are already close to being phased out in the end game for the with the only real determinant being how much you value those 3 champs (most of their value coming from BGs which is also in a bad state reward wise funny enough). Honestly shocked there isn't a single titan shard.
But for the sake of argument we can even grant them that the players might value these champs at the same level of r3 mats. I just want to know how long they expect you to spend acquiring resources to clear this content. Whats a general range of time you could spend targeted efforts to get toward this? The answer seems to be months and thats a massive far cry from where the game was when we could acquire revives more easily. The shock seems too great
I'm doing maybe 1 for the Deathless KG piece.. the rest.. sorry I find them to be bad. I do understand the 6* selector to be able to do it, but if you already got them you should get something else.. .. I dunno a selector between the 6* selector and 7* shards... Something.. the fact that we are still being rewarded 6* is a total turn off
You are welcome to discuss the challenges and have your thoughts on them, but I want to be very clear, attacking any one of our creators directly will not be tolerated. Nobody "betrayed the community" by doing exactly what was asked, to create extremely hard content.
We will not tolerate any form of personal attacks, and we will take action on your game account if we think that it is necessary.
So according to Kabam logic, is "extremely hard content" just a revive spam? Because I don't see how doing Gauntlet with just Zemo is skillful because of some defenders like Korg and Ham in there who will be the worst.
How would you define difficult content? If it's difficult it implies a high likelihood of failure. How do you continue after failure?
We intentionally make this super difficult content optional. Yes, we encourage you to do it in different ways, but if you wanted to completely ignore it you can. (I have a long list of Carina's Challenges that will remain untouched for a long long time)
"Encourage different ways" how? When there's a limit to resource acquisition (revive farm need), rank up mats are still too scarce, I'm a paragon and I'm getting t6b and t3a simply from £20 deals now as there's no where to get anything now.. and you've limited the content to 1 champ..?
Lagacy is the GOAT. I’ve always watched his videos and he seems like a cool guy and now he did the community a solid with his challenge. It looks like something interesting and achievable and he was able to incorporate his favorite champ into the objective which only adds an extra layer into the fun. The other ones seem like item sinks. I never did GM Gauntlet or EOP so I’m not super familiar with the fights. However the restrictions are pretty…. Restrictive. I wish it could’ve been defeat Spider-Ham in Grandmaster Gauntlet with specific champs instead of having to do the entire quest. That way you still have a challenge of defeating 5 tough champs but it’s not a revive sink. Or defeat the first champ in the quest with a lower rarity champion. I don’t know. This just doesn’t seem fun to me so I’ll just do Lagacy’s challenge and drop him a thanks for looking out for the community.
You are welcome to discuss the challenges and have your thoughts on them, but I want to be very clear, attacking any one of our creators directly will not be tolerated. Nobody "betrayed the community" by doing exactly what was asked, to create extremely hard content.
We will not tolerate any form of personal attacks, and we will take action on your game account if we think that it is necessary.
So according to Kabam logic, is "extremely hard content" just a revive spam? Because I don't see how doing Gauntlet with just Zemo is skillful because of some defenders like Korg and Ham in there who will be the worst.
How would you define difficult content? If it's difficult it implies a high likelihood of failure. How do you continue after failure?
We intentionally make this super difficult content optional. Yes, we encourage you to do it in different ways, but if you wanted to completely ignore it you can. (I have a long list of Carina's Challenges that will remain untouched for a long long time)
How do you continue after failure? Revive until you complete that fight or content. There's nothing fun or challenging. It's just annoying. Doing Korg with Zemo isn't challenging and hard content at all. It's just a revive fest.
If anything, I think we're all getting a little burned out by the endgame content being too difficult for the average player with rewards not being worth the time and frustration.
Endgame content is not targeted to the average player upon release.
Lagacy's challenges are without question the easiest ones *today* by a mile. However, his is rarity locked. It will always be as difficult as it is today. KMs and Fins are not rarity locked. They will get easier over time, both as people rank up the necessary champions and as higher ranks and rarities continue to be added to the game.
Sometimes end game content is also temporary content, intended to be rewarding for the players who managed to reach the end game at the time the content is released. But most end game content is permanent, and is there to challenge end game players when it is released, and then to become more accessible over time. KM and Fin's challenges are never going to become easy in any reasonable amount of time, but they will become easier, just like Act 6 is now far more accessible, just like the Abyss is far more accessible, and something like the Labyrinth isn't even particularly challenging anymore.
Even Lagacy's challenge is far outside the reach of the "average player" and it should be. It is probably doable by the average Paragon with significant potion usage, and doable by top 10% Paragons with minimal potion usage. But Mike's in my opinion targets top 5-10% Paragons and Valiants, and Fin's targets top 1% Paragons and Valiants. Both of those percentages will drop over time, but in my opinion those are not unreasonable targets to aim for when designing end game content, and the only reason for anyone outside of the very top tier players or players who enjoy high end challenges to target any of this content is the KG piece which only requires doing one of them. The easiest of them, Lagacy's challenges, targets an entirely reasonable strength level for a 7* Deathless champion.
I think we the playerbase need to learn to not just tolerate content that might not be our cup of tea, but actually start learning to rejoice that content keeps getting added that is not our cup of tea, because it means the game continues to aim at a wide range of players, and that is good for the long term health of the game. It means the developers actually *care* about the long term heatlh of the game, because they see a long term existing at all. The day everything looks like something designed for any one of us to enjoy that's the day we should start worrying, because it means the devs are no longer concerned about doing anything but appeasing a small pool of existing players. That's the day the devs stop thinking about the future, because the game has no future.
Content like this is not just about the tiny percentage of players who can do it today. It is about the future. Progressional games are about aspiration, and they target players who can handle not doing everything and aspiring to reach higher than what they can do today. It will take years for most players who pick up the game today to reach Act 8, to do Necropolis, to complete things like the Carina's challenges. Spending the money to add content like this says you expect the game to be around long enough for players to reach it, because there's not enough return on investment for that time if just a few content creators make videos doing it and a couple hundred players decide to do it for giggles.
I would love to play WOW... don't want to waste so many revievs for just 7* crystal and that 7* selector...after 2-3 month these will be outdated...will do these when I have nothing left to do...with revive orr they are going to expire...
For now WOW is much bigger thing than these garbage reward..
And offcourse these objectives and garbage rewards not on the lagacy, karatemike, fintech..they just did their thier part..m
If we talk about fintech objective i have to complete EOP all 16 annoying defender and then Thanos with jabari and tigra...I don't even know how much resources it will cost me..for single objective then i will get 5k 7* shards...
What a joke...
You do not have to do anything that you don't want to do, and this is not content that is required to progress. Sure, you may feel you need to do one for the Deathless King Groot piece, but you have plenty of time to do that because this is permanent content.
This content is meant to be hard; it's meant to take time and cost you resources or be a hard skill check. We have never said that content needs to be done itemless, and we don't design content on that basis. If you want these rewards, you're either gonna have to be really skilled or be ready to use your stash of revives and potions.
There are plenty of times that you will get rewards for doing absolutely nothing in-game. A pretty juicy Valentine's Day calendar is doing that right now. If you look at this content, which is completely optional and is permanent content that you can take on whenever you want, and think it's not worth your time or resources, then you aren't required to do it.
The game will always have extremely difficult content, just like there always has been. Realm of Legends was completed with 3 and 4-Star Champions with extremely basic abilities. Labyrinth had people using 5-Stars, but the Champions that did it at the time weren't much better. Both of those were done before Revive farming was ever a thing, and having that Everest content, that insane challenge ahead of you, was and continues to be a good thing for the game. It's the same for WoW. People have built their skills and rosters for a while, and they should have something to challenge them and reward them for all of that work.
I get that you might feel that "extremely challenging" should fit a certain description, but that's not really fair. We will always be pushing the envelope on what content can be, whether it's more difficult, or meant for more and more players, or just something whacky and zaney, and it will not always fit your ideal picture of what it could be.
We late stage players have built our skills sure, but mentioning rosters is in direct opposition to the design of champion gating which is present in both the Carinas challenge and WOW. Your roster doesn’t need to be developed to have 3 champs of whom you can obtain all through the selectors given in the challenge.
Im a bit confused as to how late stage players are being “rewarded” for all that progress we’ve achieved. We aren’t being rewarded for roster depth. We’re not being rewarded in any particularly meaningful way if you’re ceding that the content is DESIGNED to cost items. Seems like we’re being rewarded in the sense that we have nothing else lucrative enough to focus on so we get the “privilege” of doing this content because well at least it has some 7 star materials…?
You are welcome to discuss the challenges and have your thoughts on them, but I want to be very clear, attacking any one of our creators directly will not be tolerated. Nobody "betrayed the community" by doing exactly what was asked, to create extremely hard content.
We will not tolerate any form of personal attacks, and we will take action on your game account if we think that it is necessary.
I'm not gonna fight the jailing as my cell is pretty cushy but everyone that agreed with me should also technically be jailed or at least warned with this logic.
I don't understand the recent going against what the community wants and likes in terms of game content. It alienates the devs.
Doing what's good for the game and not for the players is one thing (revive farm removal), but constant going against what your customer base wants seems unhealthy. Let's see what your "data" has to say about this in the future.
Doubling up on what the data will say in the future, we will see how the community engages with this type of content, in terms of participation. Cause I'm a bit concern, Kabam spends time, energy, resources (not applicable to this CCP carinas, but to WoW) to create something that barely anyone will touch. And I remember Kabam said they value the time they take to develop content, in case of Necro or other end game content, and that was why revive farm had to be removed. Cause they spent months creating content and didn't want people to clear it straight away. But the other side of the spectrum also applies, don't want to spend months creating end game content only for nobody to play it.
Did anyone notice the 6* r1-r4 gems in the unit store and then KarateMike's challenges?! Coincidence, I think not! Think about it! *Puts on tin foil cowboy hat*
The game will always have extremely difficult content, just like there always has been. Realm of Legends was completed with 3 and 4-Star Champions with extremely basic abilities. Labyrinth had people using 5-Stars, but the Champions that did it at the time weren't much better
^^Kabam miike Quote I must've deleted it by accident
So kabam miike, you say that using 5 stars in lab was extremely difficult but do you remember carinas v1 with 4 stars in there? I don't really understand why some carinas just weren't skill based and purely wallet based.
I'm a fan of most of these new challenges, but gauntlet korg, terrax, doom, and more with only zemo is just diabolical
If anything, I think we're all getting a little burned out by the endgame content being too difficult for the average player with rewards not being worth the time and frustration.
Endgame content is not targeted to the average player upon release.
Lagacy's challenges are without question the easiest ones *today* by a mile. However, his is rarity locked. It will always be as difficult as it is today. KMs and Fins are not rarity locked. They will get easier over time, both as people rank up the necessary champions and as higher ranks and rarities continue to be added to the game.
Sometimes end game content is also temporary content, intended to be rewarding for the players who managed to reach the end game at the time the content is released. But most end game content is permanent, and is there to challenge end game players when it is released, and then to become more accessible over time. KM and Fin's challenges are never going to become easy in any reasonable amount of time, but they will become easier, just like Act 6 is now far more accessible, just like the Abyss is far more accessible, and something like the Labyrinth isn't even particularly challenging anymore.
Even Lagacy's challenge is far outside the reach of the "average player" and it should be. It is probably doable by the average Paragon with significant potion usage, and doable by top 10% Paragons with minimal potion usage. But Mike's in my opinion targets top 5-10% Paragons and Valiants, and Fin's targets top 1% Paragons and Valiants. Both of those percentages will drop over time, but in my opinion those are not unreasonable targets to aim for when designing end game content, and the only reason for anyone outside of the very top tier players or players who enjoy high end challenges to target any of this content is the KG piece which only requires doing one of them. The easiest of them, Lagacy's challenges, targets an entirely reasonable strength level for a 7* Deathless champion.
I think we the playerbase need to learn to not just tolerate content that might not be our cup of tea, but actually start learning to rejoice that content keeps getting added that is not our cup of tea, because it means the game continues to aim at a wide range of players, and that is good for the long term health of the game. It means the developers actually *care* about the long term heatlh of the game, because they see a long term existing at all. The day everything looks like something designed for any one of us to enjoy that's the day we should start worrying, because it means the devs are no longer concerned about doing anything but appeasing a small pool of existing players. That's the day the devs stop thinking about the future, because the game has no future.
Content like this is not just about the tiny percentage of players who can do it today. It is about the future. Progressional games are about aspiration, and they target players who can handle not doing everything and aspiring to reach higher than what they can do today. It will take years for most players who pick up the game today to reach Act 8, to do Necropolis, to complete things like the Carina's challenges. Spending the money to add content like this says you expect the game to be around long enough for players to reach it, because there's not enough return on investment for that time if just a few content creators make videos doing it and a couple hundred players decide to do it for giggles.
KM and Fins will maybe get easier over time but by the time they release 7 star versions of those champs, rewards will be outdated. So I don't see why you're involving the future of this game when only the challenge would be a proof of an healthy game but not the rewards.
You are welcome to discuss the challenges and have your thoughts on them, but I want to be very clear, attacking any one of our creators directly will not be tolerated. Nobody "betrayed the community" by doing exactly what was asked, to create extremely hard content.
We will not tolerate any form of personal attacks, and we will take action on your game account if we think that it is necessary.
I'm not gonna fight the jailing as my cell is pretty cushy but everyone that agreed with me should also technically be jailed or at least warned with this logic.
You should be jailed for your name alone
It's not my fault everyone's dirty minds skips over peanuts and to a different kind of nuts when they read my name
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This content is meant to be hard; it's meant to take time and cost you resources or be a hard skill check. We have never said that content needs to be done itemless, and we don't design content on that basis. If you want these rewards, you're either gonna have to be really skilled or be ready to use your stash of revives and potions.
There are plenty of times that you will get rewards for doing absolutely nothing in-game. A pretty juicy Valentine's Day calendar is doing that right now. If you look at this content, which is completely optional and is permanent content that you can take on whenever you want, and think it's not worth your time or resources, then you aren't required to do it.
The game will always have extremely difficult content, just like there always has been. Realm of Legends was completed with 3 and 4-Star Champions with extremely basic abilities. Labyrinth had people using 5-Stars, but the Champions that did it at the time weren't much better. Both of those were done before Revive farming was ever a thing, and having that Everest content, that insane challenge ahead of you, was and continues to be a good thing for the game. It's the same for WoW. People have built their skills and rosters for a while, and they should have something to challenge them and reward them for all of that work.
I get that you might feel that "extremely challenging" should fit a certain description, but that's not really fair. We will always be pushing the envelope on what content can be, whether it's more difficult, or meant for more and more players, or just something whacky and zaney, and it will not always fit your ideal picture of what it could be.
But for the sake of argument we can even grant them that the players might value these champs at the same level of r3 mats. I just want to know how long they expect you to spend acquiring resources to clear this content. Whats a general range of time you could spend targeted efforts to get toward this? The answer seems to be months and thats a massive far cry from where the game was when we could acquire revives more easily. The shock seems too great
We intentionally make this super difficult content optional. Yes, we encourage you to do it in different ways, but if you wanted to completely ignore it you can. (I have a long list of Carina's Challenges that will remain untouched for a long long time)
It feels like this game is no longer for regular players. It’s just for those with insane skills that have no problem spending a lot of money at every new event. I think a lot of us are holding on because of the sunk cost fallacy and it’s sad to see the direction this game is going.
I dunno a selector between the 6* selector and 7* shards... Something.. the fact that we are still being rewarded 6* is a total turn off
Easy skip for now.
Lagacy's challenges are without question the easiest ones *today* by a mile. However, his is rarity locked. It will always be as difficult as it is today. KMs and Fins are not rarity locked. They will get easier over time, both as people rank up the necessary champions and as higher ranks and rarities continue to be added to the game.
Sometimes end game content is also temporary content, intended to be rewarding for the players who managed to reach the end game at the time the content is released. But most end game content is permanent, and is there to challenge end game players when it is released, and then to become more accessible over time. KM and Fin's challenges are never going to become easy in any reasonable amount of time, but they will become easier, just like Act 6 is now far more accessible, just like the Abyss is far more accessible, and something like the Labyrinth isn't even particularly challenging anymore.
Even Lagacy's challenge is far outside the reach of the "average player" and it should be. It is probably doable by the average Paragon with significant potion usage, and doable by top 10% Paragons with minimal potion usage. But Mike's in my opinion targets top 5-10% Paragons and Valiants, and Fin's targets top 1% Paragons and Valiants. Both of those percentages will drop over time, but in my opinion those are not unreasonable targets to aim for when designing end game content, and the only reason for anyone outside of the very top tier players or players who enjoy high end challenges to target any of this content is the KG piece which only requires doing one of them. The easiest of them, Lagacy's challenges, targets an entirely reasonable strength level for a 7* Deathless champion.
I think we the playerbase need to learn to not just tolerate content that might not be our cup of tea, but actually start learning to rejoice that content keeps getting added that is not our cup of tea, because it means the game continues to aim at a wide range of players, and that is good for the long term health of the game. It means the developers actually *care* about the long term heatlh of the game, because they see a long term existing at all. The day everything looks like something designed for any one of us to enjoy that's the day we should start worrying, because it means the devs are no longer concerned about doing anything but appeasing a small pool of existing players. That's the day the devs stop thinking about the future, because the game has no future.
Content like this is not just about the tiny percentage of players who can do it today. It is about the future. Progressional games are about aspiration, and they target players who can handle not doing everything and aspiring to reach higher than what they can do today. It will take years for most players who pick up the game today to reach Act 8, to do Necropolis, to complete things like the Carina's challenges. Spending the money to add content like this says you expect the game to be around long enough for players to reach it, because there's not enough return on investment for that time if just a few content creators make videos doing it and a couple hundred players decide to do it for giggles.
Im a bit confused as to how late stage players are being “rewarded” for all that progress we’ve achieved. We aren’t being rewarded for roster depth. We’re not being rewarded in any particularly meaningful way if you’re ceding that the content is DESIGNED to cost items. Seems like we’re being rewarded in the sense that we have nothing else lucrative enough to focus on so we get the “privilege” of doing this content because well at least it has some 7 star materials…?
Doing what's good for the game and not for the players is one thing (revive farm removal), but constant going against what your customer base wants seems unhealthy. Let's see what your "data" has to say about this in the future.
Doubling up on what the data will say in the future, we will see how the community engages with this type of content, in terms of participation. Cause I'm a bit concern, Kabam spends time, energy, resources (not applicable to this CCP carinas, but to WoW) to create something that barely anyone will touch. And I remember Kabam said they value the time they take to develop content, in case of Necro or other end game content, and that was why revive farm had to be removed. Cause they spent months creating content and didn't want people to clear it straight away. But the other side of the spectrum also applies, don't want to spend months creating end game content only for nobody to play it.
Just my views on where this game is heading.
^^Kabam miike Quote I must've deleted it by accident
So kabam miike, you say that using 5 stars in lab was extremely difficult but do you remember carinas v1 with 4 stars in there? I don't really understand why some carinas just weren't skill based and purely wallet based.
I'm a fan of most of these new challenges, but gauntlet korg, terrax, doom, and more with only zemo is just diabolical
Fintech