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Symbiote Supreme Bugs

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  • Haji_SaabHaji_Saab Posts: 3,150 ★★★★★

    @iRetr0 @Frankmcoc I know sometimes it works and sometimes it just doesn't seem to reduce the damage. I have tested on hype multiple times and there is a inconsistency. But all I was saying is his description specifically tells "per hit" not "per source" like that of Iceman. A clear answer from mods is really welcomed here.

    An sp3 is always considered 1 hit for such abilities.
  • The_WatcherThe_Watcher Posts: 147
    edited September 6
    Haji_Saab said:

    @iRetr0 @Frankmcoc I know sometimes it works and sometimes it just doesn't seem to reduce the damage. I have tested on hype multiple times and there is a inconsistency. But all I was saying is his description specifically tells "per hit" not "per source" like that of Iceman. A clear answer from mods is really welcomed here.

    An sp3 is always considered 1 hit for such abilities.
    That's what I wanted to know, but he just gave that Template link. From what I remember, sp3 is single souce but can be multiple hits. For example, Cyclops sp3 and see that combo meter rising, thus multiple hits. Better way to see this is tanking more than 3 hits sp3 with KM indestructible charges, they will tank the damage only for 3 hits even though sp3 is single sourced.
  • DrZolaDrZola Posts: 2,806 ★★★★★
    edited September 6

    If you believe you've encountered an issue with Symbiote Supreme outside of those that we've already mentioned looking into in this thread, please either share that information in a thread about that issue or you can create one using the forum bug report template. Doing so will help to make it easier to track what information being shared is for which issue.

    Can you double check on the interaction between MD and SymSup’s power gain while you are working on the champ? It is very difficult to capture the issue (precise power bar quantum aren’t shown), so it winds up being more of a “this feels very different from other mystic nullify champs” issue.

    Even so, here’s what I’ve been doing to check:
    1) Record a SymSup fight against a champ who gets buffs but doesn’t give SymSup any additional power gain (e.g., not Psylocke)
    2) Review the recording to see how many nullifies occur before SymSup’s first Sp3 (obviously, don’t use any SymSup specials prior to Sp3)
    3) Calculate based on his passive 16.5% power gain per 9 seconds (which means he should get his Sp3, ceteris paribus, after about 54-55 seconds if he doesn’t nullify anything at all) how long it took to Sp3.
    4) If any nullifies happen before that first Sp3, then your time to that first Sp3 should be less than 54-55 seconds. There’s math involved, but it basically involves calculating in the 5% power for each nullified buff (MD 3/5).

    For example, if you get 3 nullifies (15% power), you should be getting that first Sp3 around 46ish seconds (16.5% passive gain/9 secs times 45 secs = 82.5% power plus the 15% stagger power gain for 96.5% of full power).

    A recent KK fight in 6.1 yielded 42 seconds to first Sp3 with ~4 nullifies (sometimes they don’t show up in script), which is about what one would expect.

    Any other experiences would be welcome. Or any other suggestions to test.

    Dr. Zola
  • DrZolaDrZola Posts: 2,806 ★★★★★

    Haji_Saab said:

    @iRetr0 @Frankmcoc I know sometimes it works and sometimes it just doesn't seem to reduce the damage. I have tested on hype multiple times and there is a inconsistency. But all I was saying is his description specifically tells "per hit" not "per source" like that of Iceman. A clear answer from mods is really welcomed here.

    An sp3 is always considered 1 hit for such abilities.
    That's what I wanted to know, but he just gave that Template link. From what I remember, sp3 is single souce but can be multiple hits. For example, Cyclops sp3 and see that combo meter rising, thus multiple hits. Better way to see this is tanking more than 3 hits sp3 with KM indestructible charges, they will tank the damage only for 3 hits even though sp3 is single sourced.
    The question probably most applicable to SymSup would be Hypo’s Sp3, which deals two spots of damage. In Null’s Shadow, that shouldn’t be more than 30% of total health, right?

    Dr. Zola
  • The_WatcherThe_Watcher Posts: 147
    DrZola said:

    Haji_Saab said:

    @iRetr0 @Frankmcoc I know sometimes it works and sometimes it just doesn't seem to reduce the damage. I have tested on hype multiple times and there is a inconsistency. But all I was saying is his description specifically tells "per hit" not "per source" like that of Iceman. A clear answer from mods is really welcomed here.

    An sp3 is always considered 1 hit for such abilities.
    That's what I wanted to know, but he just gave that Template link. From what I remember, sp3 is single souce but can be multiple hits. For example, Cyclops sp3 and see that combo meter rising, thus multiple hits. Better way to see this is tanking more than 3 hits sp3 with KM indestructible charges, they will tank the damage only for 3 hits even though sp3 is single sourced.
    The question probably most applicable to SymSup would be Hypo’s Sp3, which deals two spots of damage. In Null’s Shadow, that shouldn’t be more than 30% of total health, right?

    Dr. Zola
    Agreed, I think I've seen it not working sometimes but I'm not 100% positive. I'll try a few hypo fights and report back. I'll appreciate if anyone can record when it's not working (recording screws up my fps).
  • NeotwismNeotwism Posts: 757 ★★★
    I know Kabam has a lot going on right now but is there any word yet on if Symbiote Supreme will be fixed with the next update? October will make it 1 year since this thread was started. All we have in that time is a description change and a broken champ still. I am hoping that he will be fixed soon and wondered if u had any updates yet. I just dont want this slipping through the cracks any longer than it jas already.
  • JestressJestress Posts: 1,188 ★★★★
    edited September 15
    Neotwism said:

    I know Kabam has a lot going on right now but is there any word yet on if Symbiote Supreme will be fixed with the next update? October will make it 1 year since this thread was started. All we have in that time is a description change and a broken champ still. I am hoping that he will be fixed soon and wondered if u had any updates yet. I just dont want this slipping through the cracks any longer than it jas already.

    Kabam already said that they were just going to change his description since having the character perform the way he was advertised and sold would be too OP.

    Edit: also no compensation for users.
  • NeotwismNeotwism Posts: 757 ★★★
    @Jestress I understand that but that wasnt the only problem SS was dealing with. He still isnt dealing damage at the start of the fights properly. They said they were working on fixing him but it wouldnt be ready for the last update. That's why i wondered if we can look forward to it on the next update.
  • JestressJestress Posts: 1,188 ★★★★
    Neotwism said:

    @Jestress I understand that but that wasnt the only problem SS was dealing with. He still isnt dealing damage at the start of the fights properly. They said they were working on fixing him but it wouldnt be ready for the last update. That's why i wondered if we can look forward to it on the next update.

    Good call. Don't hold your breath!
  • NeotwismNeotwism Posts: 757 ★★★
    I agree @DrZola Thats why i wanted to comment on it. They finally responded and took a look at him so i dont want to lose that momentum. If they think all of us have moved on or forget about the other issues they may ignore it also.
  • NeotwismNeotwism Posts: 757 ★★★
    I really hope we can get SS fixed soon. I thought he was the hardest fight during the boss rush. Everytime he dealt damage at the start of the fight yet when i use him to attack it usually fails. I wont even get into the fairness of using champs u know are bugged in new content. That is a whole separate issue.
  • DrZolaDrZola Posts: 2,806 ★★★★★
    My last comment about the as yet unfixed bug for SymSup got deleted—so I will try this a different way: what do you all think the final resolution of the fight-start buff damage bug will be? Will it remain the same? What’s the root of the problem? Can you envision a fix that changes the champ mechanics but still satisfies the player base?

    I would also welcome any of the mods who have been active in this thread to participate as well. Just discuss—I think we all want the champ to work correctly, so it’s simply a cordial dialogue.

    Dr. Zola
  • DrZolaDrZola Posts: 2,806 ★★★★★
    @borntohula I will take a look tomorrow.

    If what you say is true, I would tend to believe that layers upon layers of code written by who knows how many people is the reason.

    Honestly, though, I rarely use my SymSup. He’s a pale shadow of the one we faced in EQ, and it dampens enthusiasm when it feels like pride of authorship is deficient.

    Dr. Zola
  • NeotwismNeotwism Posts: 757 ★★★
    I stopped using him because he is bugged. Knowing he will be changed in some way, why should i get attached and used to how he is now. October will make this 1 year we have been dealing with his problems. I am not spending any more until his situation is
    resolved. I doubt it will matter much since i only spend a few hundred a month, but i might as well save it. Im sure alot of ppl r questioning their spending with the unclear future of the game right now.
  • The_WatcherThe_Watcher Posts: 147

    DrZola said:

    Haji_Saab said:

    @iRetr0 @Frankmcoc I know sometimes it works and sometimes it just doesn't seem to reduce the damage. I have tested on hype multiple times and there is a inconsistency. But all I was saying is his description specifically tells "per hit" not "per source" like that of Iceman. A clear answer from mods is really welcomed here.

    An sp3 is always considered 1 hit for such abilities.
    That's what I wanted to know, but he just gave that Template link. From what I remember, sp3 is single souce but can be multiple hits. For example, Cyclops sp3 and see that combo meter rising, thus multiple hits. Better way to see this is tanking more than 3 hits sp3 with KM indestructible charges, they will tank the damage only for 3 hits even though sp3 is single sourced.
    The question probably most applicable to SymSup would be Hypo’s Sp3, which deals two spots of damage. In Null’s Shadow, that shouldn’t be more than 30% of total health, right?

    Dr. Zola
    Agreed, I think I've seen it not working sometimes but I'm not 100% positive. I'll try a few hypo fights and report back. I'll appreciate if anyone can record when it's not working (recording screws up my fps).
    Just an update on this. Since the start of time after time solo event, I couldn't test this out (used all those duels for the event). Now since arenas are giving out shards I decided to test today's 5 duels on this matter.

    From what I've observed (on 4 duels, one was K.O caused I missed a parry lol) he does reduce damage per hit (15% total with power gain buff active and 30% without buff) (Duel target: [email protected]). As for SS, he's 4* 4/40 and I'm sure the hype can do much more than 30% damage to a 4/40 champ.
  • MikeHockMikeHock Posts: 1,440 ★★★★
    edited October 3
    They initiated an investigation into the buff removal not doing any damage at the start of the fight back in January. There really hasn’t been any progress made on a fix in 10 months??
  • LormifLormif Posts: 4,741 ★★★★★
    MikeHock said:

    They initiated an investigation into the buff removal not doing any damage at the start of the fight back in January. There really hasn’t been any progress made on a fix in 10 months??

    I realized something when pointing out the damage to someone else that may be realize here. The damage is based on genetic potential, not just staight up. They do not say how it scales with potiential, so it is possible that at zero potential it does zero damage, and the more buffs it removes the damage comes into play. I have had it strip multiple buffs off people and it do damage, and strip one and not do damage, but I cannot remember doing 1 and doing damage or multiple and not doing damage, so that may be the cause.
  • DrZolaDrZola Posts: 2,806 ★★★★★
    Lormif said:

    MikeHock said:

    They initiated an investigation into the buff removal not doing any damage at the start of the fight back in January. There really hasn’t been any progress made on a fix in 10 months??

    I realized something when pointing out the damage to someone else that may be realize here. The damage is based on genetic potential, not just staight up. They do not say how it scales with potiential, so it is possible that at zero potential it does zero damage, and the more buffs it removes the damage comes into play. I have had it strip multiple buffs off people and it do damage, and strip one and not do damage, but I cannot remember doing 1 and doing damage or multiple and not doing damage, so that may be the cause.
    Right. What is unclear is whether the buffs nullified count for adding Genetic Potential—I think they should (for example, first buff deals no damage but adds GenPot, second one does some and adds more, and so on).

    He’s complex. But I’ve also seen a SymSup roll out with max GenPot. Just seems to be inconsistent.

    Dr. Zola.
  • DrZolaDrZola Posts: 2,806 ★★★★★
    Why does this thread merit clean-up? It looks like several comments were recently removed, including some from days ago, but still nothing doing with the actual champion.

    Could we at least get an update, even if the update is that we don’t have an update?

    Dr. Zola
  • NeotwismNeotwism Posts: 757 ★★★
    @DrZola Thats probably my fault. In another thread i brought up how sometimes comments have a huge blank space in the replies. Kabam miike asked me to link him where it was happening and i said this thread. They might have cleaned it up when checking. It would have been nice to give us an update if they r already looking at the thread though.
  • DrZolaDrZola Posts: 2,806 ★★★★★
    Neotwism said:

    @DrZola Thats probably my fault. In another thread i brought up how sometimes comments have a huge blank space in the replies. Kabam miike asked me to link him where it was happening and i said this thread. They might have cleaned it up when checking. It would have been nice to give us an update if they r already looking at the thread though.

    Ahhh...I see. Then my comment should be removed as well.

    Dr. Zola
  • LormifLormif Posts: 4,741 ★★★★★
    DrZola said:

    Neotwism said:

    @DrZola Thats probably my fault. In another thread i brought up how sometimes comments have a huge blank space in the replies. Kabam miike asked me to link him where it was happening and i said this thread. They might have cleaned it up when checking. It would have been nice to give us an update if they r already looking at the thread though.

    Ahhh...I see. Then my comment should be removed as well.

    Dr. Zola
    or they should fix the issue. The blank space tends to move from post to post, typically the last post, so removing the posts does nothing.
  • The_WatcherThe_Watcher Posts: 147
    Neotwism said:

    Finally!!! It looks like update 25 is going to fix SS ability to deal nullify damage at the start of a fight. It's only taken a year and we can only hope he will finally work properly.

    Thanks to everyone who has been keeping the problems with SS active and bringing attention to it. I hate to say it, but without everyone keeping this active i doubt he would be getting fixed.

    I do hope he's fixed finally, but the wording "some interactions" is putting me off. Does that mean that it's fixed against some champs while others are still bugged? It's not that general bug fix wording like "fixed an issue with" that's bothering me.
  • MoNsTeR_804MoNsTeR_804 Posts: 353
    So is Kabam gonna fix sym supreme?
  • MikeHockMikeHock Posts: 1,440 ★★★★
    I’ll believe it when I see it
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