Symbiote Supreme Bugs

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  • LormifLormif Posts: 4,975 ★★★★★

    Hey Summoners,

    We wanted to give an update on some of the issues raised here.

    In the next game update we’ll be updating the description of Null’s Shadow to clarify that well-timed Blocks trigger Stagger with a 50% chance. Despite the error in the description, this is the percentage chance that is intended for Symbiote Supreme.

    After many back and forth conversations and tests, we had to make the decision to keep it as it is now, which is 50%. Any higher percentage would make Symbiote Supreme much more powerful than he already is in this area, which is not something that this Champion needs. We apologize for the confusion caused by this description error.

    With relation to Nullify not dealing damage at the beginning of a fight, this an issue that the team is still investigating to work toward a resolution. We have been able to reproduce it, but the solution is a complicated one with many knock-ons to other Abilities. While we are looking at this, it is not something that will be resolved in the next update. We appreciate your patience with relation to this issue.

    I have a question... Was Symbiote Supreme working with the ability to apply stagger at 100% when he was a boss in EQ? Does anyone have videos if Symbiote was working this way when he was yet to be a playable character?
    My guess is no, but it is pretty difficult to see as it requires him to get a perfect block to trigger the 100% stagger, and that is pretty rare for an AI to get a perfect block.
  • NeotwismNeotwism Posts: 1,642 ★★★★
    I agree @DrZola ... If they think ppl were complaining before over the word change thwy have no idea how many ppl will be upset if this is removed from SS. I can understand a description being wrong. I dont understand why it takes a year to finally let us know and correct it but that's a separate issue. This is the main reason i wanted SS. If it changes i will not be happy.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 4,975 ★★★★★
    DrZola said:

    This is a question directed to the game team, and one that I would appreciate some dialogue on.

    With respect to SymSup’s ability to deal damage at the start of the fight, is the issue only the mechanics of the ability or is it also the concern that this ability may be too overpowered? In particular, is there a concern that existing champs or upcoming champs will be highly vulnerable to SymSup’s abilities as described in his Spotlight and elsewhere?

    Here’s the rub: that particular ability isn’t a word choice error—it’s baked into his description and specifically noted by the Devs in their description of him as the “Anti-Buff” champ. Changing that mechanic in any way, and especially in any material way, would fundamentally alter SymSup as described—regardless of whether he is working that way in game or not.

    Assurances on the direction this fix might be headed would be appreciated.

    Dr. Zola

    They are pretty clear it is a bug that they are working on. It is more than likely a timing issue tied into things like corvus taking bleed and coldsnap damage at the start of the fight.
  • NeotwismNeotwism Posts: 1,642 ★★★★
    Thats also what worries me that they may think he is too powerful with this feature @DrZola
  • DestroyerDestroyer Posts: 119
    @becauseicant has mentioned that SS can't seem to parry immediately after his 2nd medium. I was playing with his 3* a lot this morning in Master EQ 1.2. This was happening to me also. Something up with his recovery time. Block comes up in proper time to parry, but it doesn't register. I should note that parry will work after 2nd medium for me if the defender was against their wall, but not if both champs are in space. Could you let us know if this is being looked into? Thanks.
  • FrankmcocFrankmcoc Posts: 135
    Since update the protection shielding from null shadow isn’t working.

    Every time I’ve pushed an enemy to sp3 with null shadow active and over 70% health .....they have killed me


  • iRetr0iRetr0 Posts: 1,240 ★★★★
    @Frankmcoc The protection shield lasts for 10 seconds when Null's Shadow is active, maybe the SP3 was activated after the 10 seconds?
  • The_WatcherThe_Watcher Posts: 148
    @Frankmcoc Also, protection is per hit (not per source), so multiple hit sp3s (sp3s are single source but can be of multiple hits) will cause more than 15% damage in total.
  • DrZolaDrZola Posts: 3,287 ★★★★★
    That’s worth taking a look at.

    Also, I’m still not seeing the big power gains I would expect with MD and SymSup. I can’t post videos, but it’s still very underwhelming at R4. 5% power every time a buff is nullified or expires...against a Medusa where I’m nullifying pretty much the entire fight I should be generating that 5% a lot—in fact just nullifying the 3 furies she gets periodically would produce 15% of full power by itself (or about half a bar).

    Does anyone else see this happening?

    Dr. Zola
  • LormifLormif Posts: 4,975 ★★★★★
    DrZola said:

    That’s worth taking a look at.

    Also, I’m still not seeing the big power gains I would expect with MD and SymSup. I can’t post videos, but it’s still very underwhelming at R4. 5% power every time a buff is nullified or expires...against a Medusa where I’m nullifying pretty much the entire fight I should be generating that 5% a lot—in fact just nullifying the 3 furies she gets periodically would produce 15% of full power by itself (or about half a bar).

    Does anyone else see this happening?

    Dr. Zola

    Unless you are talking about war, or some specific nodes you did not mention then the furies would probably be the only thing MD would affect as that is the only buffs she gets.
  • iRetr0iRetr0 Posts: 1,240 ★★★★

    @Frankmcoc Also, protection is per hit (not per source), so multiple hit sp3s (sp3s are single source but can be of multiple hits) will cause more than 15% damage in total.

    @The_Watcher I have watched Lagacy eat SP3s with Sym Supreme, pretty sure it's not per hit.
  • FrankmcocFrankmcoc Posts: 135
    It was definitely still active.....every time happened right after I threw my sp3 to activitate all charges....it pushed enemy to sp3....I didn’t mind cause I knew it couldn’t kill me...but it did

    Someone please test....I will try to get a video also
  • FrankmcocFrankmcoc Posts: 135
    Also regarding sp3s.....it has always been 15% total....I always use this feature of him


    See @Lagacy video

    From killmonger on old node 29

    Skip to time 12:45



  • FrankmcocFrankmcoc Posts: 135
    I just tried to duplicate the bug, but it worked properly so idk
  • DrZolaDrZola Posts: 3,287 ★★★★★
    Lormif said:

    DrZola said:

    That’s worth taking a look at.

    Also, I’m still not seeing the big power gains I would expect with MD and SymSup. I can’t post videos, but it’s still very underwhelming at R4. 5% power every time a buff is nullified or expires...against a Medusa where I’m nullifying pretty much the entire fight I should be generating that 5% a lot—in fact just nullifying the 3 furies she gets periodically would produce 15% of full power by itself (or about half a bar).

    Does anyone else see this happening?

    Dr. Zola

    Unless you are talking about war, or some specific nodes you did not mention then the furies would probably be the only thing MD would affect as that is the only buffs she gets.
    You’re correct about Medusa, and I use her only as an example of a champ that gets some buffs but isn’t buff-heavy (WM, Groot, Venom, OML). Those champs should see players having a hard time dropping anything other than a Sp3.

    But Medusa’s 3 furies, which occur periodically throughout a fight, should bump SymSup’s power bar around a half bar. I suppose I need to record more and study it, but I continue to be unimpressed with the interaction between SymSup and MD.

    Dr. Zola
  • borntohulaborntohula Posts: 402 ★★★
    DrZola said:

    Lormif said:

    DrZola said:

    That’s worth taking a look at.

    Also, I’m still not seeing the big power gains I would expect with MD and SymSup. I can’t post videos, but it’s still very underwhelming at R4. 5% power every time a buff is nullified or expires...against a Medusa where I’m nullifying pretty much the entire fight I should be generating that 5% a lot—in fact just nullifying the 3 furies she gets periodically would produce 15% of full power by itself (or about half a bar).

    Does anyone else see this happening?

    Dr. Zola

    Unless you are talking about war, or some specific nodes you did not mention then the furies would probably be the only thing MD would affect as that is the only buffs she gets.
    You’re correct about Medusa, and I use her only as an example of a champ that gets some buffs but isn’t buff-heavy (WM, Groot, Venom, OML). Those champs should see players having a hard time dropping anything other than a Sp3.

    But Medusa’s 3 furies, which occur periodically throughout a fight, should bump SymSup’s power bar around a half bar. I suppose I need to record more and study it, but I continue to be unimpressed with the interaction between SymSup and MD.

    Dr. Zola
    I am almost 100% positive you are correct. I have tested extensively with Mystic dispersion at level five, and it doesn’t seem to have much impact at all. If any. It’s as if the formula that determines he gains power at a much lower rate than 'regular' champions, is applied to other sources of power as well. In this case, Mystic dispersion.

    Symbiote supreme seems to be broken on more than one level. There is still no damage dealt for nullifying buffs at the beginning of the fight either. Or rather, not when the player plays him. Conversely, if you’re up against a Symbiote supreme, and you bring buffs into the fight, you take a truck load of damage. Perhaps players buffs are coded to always activate first?

    More on topic, Mystic dispersion is currently not worth it for Symbiote supreme. There is hardly any benefit. There should be. But there isn't. Just take those points out for now.







  • borntohulaborntohula Posts: 402 ★★★
    Edit: I just fought Red Skull, and SS miraculously DID damage when nullifying his armor ups at the start.
  • DrZolaDrZola Posts: 3,287 ★★★★★

    DrZola said:

    Lormif said:

    DrZola said:

    That’s worth taking a look at.

    Also, I’m still not seeing the big power gains I would expect with MD and SymSup. I can’t post videos, but it’s still very underwhelming at R4. 5% power every time a buff is nullified or expires...against a Medusa where I’m nullifying pretty much the entire fight I should be generating that 5% a lot—in fact just nullifying the 3 furies she gets periodically would produce 15% of full power by itself (or about half a bar).

    Does anyone else see this happening?

    Dr. Zola

    Unless you are talking about war, or some specific nodes you did not mention then the furies would probably be the only thing MD would affect as that is the only buffs she gets.
    You’re correct about Medusa, and I use her only as an example of a champ that gets some buffs but isn’t buff-heavy (WM, Groot, Venom, OML). Those champs should see players having a hard time dropping anything other than a Sp3.

    But Medusa’s 3 furies, which occur periodically throughout a fight, should bump SymSup’s power bar around a half bar. I suppose I need to record more and study it, but I continue to be unimpressed with the interaction between SymSup and MD.

    Dr. Zola
    I am almost 100% positive you are correct. I have tested extensively with Mystic dispersion at level five, and it doesn’t seem to have much impact at all. If any. It’s as if the formula that determines he gains power at a much lower rate than 'regular' champions, is applied to other sources of power as well. In this case, Mystic dispersion.

    Symbiote supreme seems to be broken on more than one level. There is still no damage dealt for nullifying buffs at the beginning of the fight either. Or rather, not when the player plays him. Conversely, if you’re up against a Symbiote supreme, and you bring buffs into the fight, you take a truck load of damage. Perhaps players buffs are coded to always activate first?

    More on topic, Mystic dispersion is currently not worth it for Symbiote supreme. There is hardly any benefit. There should be. But there isn't. Just take those points out for now.
    This is analogous to my experience and possibly what has happened: instead of gaining “5% power” at MD3 as the literal wording puts it in the MD description, he’s getting a 5% increase in the power he would be gaining passively. I don’t know—there’s really no great way to measure exactly how much is gained versus how much should be gained outside of looking for jumps in the power bar on video captures of a fight, and that’s still just guessing.

    Let’s assume it is working this way. That’s not how it should work. And it’s not how it works for other mystic champs. And it’s written in plain English in the mastery description—if it’s different for each mystic champ, or if it applies differently to SymSup because of his passive power gain (it shouldn’t—Doc didn’t work that way), then the team has an obligation (a) to say it plainly and (b) to provide restitution.

    At some point, there needs to be accountability for basic champ QA. Each month, it’s either a new champ bugged, or an existing champ who suddenly has bugs, or a description that randomly gets changed or reinterpreted. Maybe the answer is to not make complicated champs at all if it’s too hard to test them before release—just go back to the Rhino/Hawkeye/OG CM model of 30-50 word descriptions with no numbers.

    Dr. Zola
  • The_WatcherThe_Watcher Posts: 148
    @iRetr0 @Frankmcoc I know sometimes it works and sometimes it just doesn't seem to reduce the damage. I have tested on hype multiple times and there is a inconsistency. But all I was saying is his description specifically tells "per hit" not "per source" like that of Iceman. A clear answer from mods is really welcomed here.
  • If you believe you've encountered an issue with Symbiote Supreme outside of those that we've already mentioned looking into in this thread, please either share that information in a thread about that issue or you can create one using the forum bug report template. Doing so will help to make it easier to track what information being shared is for which issue.
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