Same question asked... How can I stay competitive in Mcoc as STP if arenas is the only event that helps close the gap and they're taking away that grinding option buy removing 7h and 22h events?
Honestly, at this point you aren’t asking a general question about competitiveness. You’re asking how you can continue to do exactly the same things with no change in anything you get and also no change in anything anyone else gets either You need to make sure no one else gets any advantages in either arena or any other rewards. And you’re saying 100k units a year isn’t enough because you need to burn units on marks, because a “competitive player” needs to score at least a million points in BG. This is a very specific, and I wouldn’t be surprised if it was explicitly unique, definition of competitiveness.
The answer to your question is: you shouldn’t expect to stay competitive by that definition. No one should ever expect to even *become* competitive in this game at all by that definition. The problem is your definition of competitiveness is completely unique to your circumstances. I would not be surprised it there was not a single other player in the game that both did everything you do exactly the way you do it and expected exactly precisely the same results as you. But you’re saying very marginal changes to the rewards you get and the rewards everyone else gets completely shatters your game play strategy.
When I was playing MMOs, I used to be a min/maxer. I would say you are an extremal min/maxer. And what min/maxers needed to learn back then is game developers do not, and never will design for you. What you’re doing is laudable, but game designers have to look out for the vast majority of players. Players like you - and honestly, I should include myself on there; players like us - can and should take take of themselves. As I said, compared to literally everyone else in the game, you’re going to be fine. You’re already squeezing 99.99% of the toothpaste out of the tube. The devs are not going to lose sleep over whether you can get the last 0.01%, even if that 0.01% is the dividing line between “competitive” and “not competitive” to you.
This is not a post related about me, it's about a situation that affects a large player base in this game that I am part of. So to answer your comment, I am not asking the devs to design for me, I'm rather asking the company as a whole to consider this situation that affects thousands of players. I am just an example of what can be achieved with current grinding system.
This is the part where you are just factually incorrect. By definition there cannot be greater than 400 people in your group, because that’s how many people get the featured champion from arena grinding and your question is inextricably tied to the goal of pulling featured champs from arena to fill in the roster (not roaster) disparity between spenders and non/light spenders. You could make an argument for 800 if you are saying that there is no overlap in who grinds each round of arena, but that would make no sense whatsoever.
It also is a smaller number than what I said above because I am certain that a number of players who grind those arenas for new champs are also spenders and therefore not in the group that you are asking to be considered here. In reality, you are asking for the needs of a group that are likely in the double-digits, maaaaybe the low hundreds, to be placed above everybody else. And that’s just straight not how game design works.
With how much time your grind, wouldn't it simply be a better use of time to get a job (or side hustle) and use that money to purchase things? I simply can't imagine grinding that much every single day in arenas and elsewhere.
With how much time your grind, wouldn't it simply be a better use of time to get a job (or side hustle) and use that money to purchase things? I simply can't imagine grinding that much every single day in arenas and elsewhere.
Not everyone is in the US, there is some countries that a full time job pays too little.
Imagine grinding that much for a Silver Sable agh...
I can keep sharing all these. I have grinded all featured champs since buying the sigil when Adam Warlock was released and I've only missed 1 which was Destroyer by 3m points. Maybe if I would have boosted a bit more on some of those rounds I would have earned him. Solo crystals shards are grindable in 7h and 22h events at a 3-1 rate compared to SDE and my farming opponents don't grind these shards which give Boosts. This is the impact those shards have in my account, I can use all these champs a week after their release in BGs if I decide to rank them up and don't have the need to spend for them.
What those pictures tell me is that it is extremely unlikely that you would have lost a single one of those champs had you not used attack boosts. Not even Onslaught.
Even without the sigil he be fine regardless.
As a low spending end game player, I always try to be prepared for what ever new challenges may come in the future like a 7* arena. 6*s at a competitive level are becoming irrelevant, when 7*s r4 champs are a thing that will be the end of their lifetime competitive wise and I'm guessing that will be in next Banquet event (5 months).
For the current 6* featured arenas I may not have a problem grinding but how about a 7* arena locked under a top 100 reward system? In that scenario, solo crystal shards and therefore boosts squired from 7h and 22h events will be a Huge impact for that goal against my spending opponents roasters.
I can keep sharing all these. I have grinded all featured champs since buying the sigil when Adam Warlock was released and I've only missed 1 which was Destroyer by 3m points. Maybe if I would have boosted a bit more on some of those rounds I would have earned him. Solo crystals shards are grindable in 7h and 22h events at a 3-1 rate compared to SDE and my farming opponents don't grind these shards which give Boosts. This is the impact those shards have in my account, I can use all these champs a week after their release in BGs if I decide to rank them up and don't have the need to spend for them.
What those pictures tell me is that it is extremely unlikely that you would have lost a single one of those champs had you not used attack boosts. Not even Onslaught.
Even without the sigil he be fine regardless.
As a low spending end game player, I always try to be prepared for what ever new challenges may come in the future like a 7* arena. 6*s at a competitive level are becoming irrelevant, when 7*s r4 champs are a thing that will be the end of their lifetime competitive wise and I'm guessing that will be in next Banquet event (5 months).
For the current 6* featured arenas I may not have a problem grinding but how about a 7* arena locked under a top 100 reward system? In that scenario, solo crystal shards and therefore boosts squired from 7h and 22h events will be a Huge impact for that goal against my spending opponents roasters.
Sometimes you hav to accept that’s not everyone i meant to get it also for when 7 star shows op it be a point you won’t even touch it without using unit.
My question is related to how the game gives it's non/low spending players an opportunity to overcome the roaster gap created by all the pay benefits this game has in order to compete in top rankings.
With all due respect, its not.
It is not my place to tell you or anyone else what to like or dislike, and it is also not my place to tell you what to advocate for. If you like the Super Daily, fine, if you don't like it, that's also entirely your prerogative.
However, you started this thread by presenting a quantitative argument (which in general I appreciate) to support a position that I just don't believe is justified, and the more numbers you show, the less convincing your argument appears to become.
The arena is a great place for F2P or low spending players to attempt to compensate for not spending. However, it has limits. Those limits are *gigantic* for players willing to put in the time, but there are still limits. You claim the Super Daily hurts F2P and low spending players who are trying to catch up to spenders. But that's not true. There are thousands of players grinding arena, and many of them probably are free to play or low spending players, and they are all gaining rewards from the arena they would not otherwise be able to get, and this game offers them that opportunity.
The game offers dedicated free to play and low spending players like you the ability to earn over a hundred thousand units in a year, which would take over three thousand dollars to buy. It also offers dedicated arena grinders the ability earn new release featured champs relatively soon after they are introduced into the game. And it offers significant reward opportunities for players who can earn enough units during its big sale days.
You're saying all of that is not enough, that this is not "competitive" enough, and your definition of "competitive" is such that if a player *only* gets this, that's simply not enough. I don't honestly think you're going to get a lot of sympathy for that position, and frankly when you say you're advocating for all the players in the same situation, I'm not sure that set of players can fill a phone booth.
For the current 6* featured arenas I may not have a problem grinding but how about a 7* arena locked under a top 100 reward system? In that scenario, solo crystal shards and therefore boosts squired from 7h and 22h events will be a Huge impact for that goal against my spending opponents roasters.
No, it won't. I could give you a billion attack boosts and a trillion solo crystal shards, and you still aren't going to place top 100 in a 7* arena, if it looks anything at all like our current arena structure. You didn't even place top 100 in any of the featured 6* arenas you posted. And as I said, top 100 in a 7* arena is going to score way higher than top 100 in the 6* featured arena. Let's look at the data. I can see that top 100 for Silver Sable, an average new run champ, took over 150 million points. We would expect top 100 in a hypothetical 7* arena to require a lot more. Let's guestimate at least 250 million (if I was actually betting cash, I'd say over 300 million, but let's be as conservative as possible).
When was the last time you scored over 250 million points in the featured arena? If you had to, could you?
As I said, if you don't like the Super Daily, you are entitled to express that preference. But if you're going to try to make a quantitative argument that the Super Daily is unfair to some players, the logic has to work and the "some" players needs to be greater than one. I simply don't see the evidence that the Super Daily actually hurts anyone, and if someone were to try to make that claim, I would use *your* thread to disprove them. You are, by your own presentation, an unambiguous counter to that argument.
When the best argument against your position is your own arguments in favor of it, something has gone completely awry.
Don't see why you are required to conflate competitive F2P accounts with arena grinding. Either use some metrics to show that arena grinding is necessary, change your premise to include all F2P competitive players (which is not a 1:1 equivalence to arena grinders), or just say that this impacts arena grinders particularly and continue on from there.
Because I am a STP player that grinds arena, plays competitively and it affects me. Therefore it also affects non spending arena grinders that play competitively.
Same question asked... How can I stay competitive in Mcoc as STP if arenas is the only event that helps close the gap and they're taking away that grinding option buy removing 7h and 22h events?
Honestly, at this point you aren’t asking a general question about competitiveness. You’re asking how you can continue to do exactly the same things with no change in anything you get and also no change in anything anyone else gets either You need to make sure no one else gets any advantages in either arena or any other rewards. And you’re saying 100k units a year isn’t enough because you need to burn units on marks, because a “competitive player” needs to score at least a million points in BG. This is a very specific, and I wouldn’t be surprised if it was explicitly unique, definition of competitiveness.
The answer to your question is: you shouldn’t expect to stay competitive by that definition. No one should ever expect to even *become* competitive in this game at all by that definition. The problem is your definition of competitiveness is completely unique to your circumstances. I would not be surprised it there was not a single other player in the game that both did everything you do exactly the way you do it and expected exactly precisely the same results as you. But you’re saying very marginal changes to the rewards you get and the rewards everyone else gets completely shatters your game play strategy.
When I was playing MMOs, I used to be a min/maxer. I would say you are an extremal min/maxer. And what min/maxers needed to learn back then is game developers do not, and never will design for you. What you’re doing is laudable, but game designers have to look out for the vast majority of players. Players like you - and honestly, I should include myself on there; players like us - can and should take take of themselves. As I said, compared to literally everyone else in the game, you’re going to be fine. You’re already squeezing 99.99% of the toothpaste out of the tube. The devs are not going to lose sleep over whether you can get the last 0.01%, even if that 0.01% is the dividing line between “competitive” and “not competitive” to you.
This is not a post related about me, it's about a situation that affects a large player base in this game that I am part of. So to answer your comment, I am not asking the devs to design for me, I'm rather asking the company as a whole to consider this situation that affects thousands of players. I am just an example of what can be achieved with current grinding system.
This is the part where you are just factually incorrect. By definition there cannot be greater than 400 people in your group, because that’s how many people get the featured champion from arena grinding and your question is inextricably tied to the goal of pulling featured champs from arena to fill in the roster (not roaster) disparity between spenders and non/light spenders. You could make an argument for 800 if you are saying that there is no overlap in who grinds each round of arena, but that would make no sense whatsoever.
It also is a smaller number than what I said above because I am certain that a number of players who grind those arenas for new champs are also spenders and therefore not in the group that you are asking to be considered here. In reality, you are asking for the needs of a group that are likely in the double-digits, maaaaybe the low hundreds, to be placed above everybody else. And that’s just straight not how game design works.
Thanks for correct wording, english is not my first language. Yes it's tied behind arena grinding at some point but it's not only for 400 people. There are two 6* arenas, I play for featured, lower accounts can grind for basics, even I sometimes do both, 1st featured and on next 3 days the basic if I don't have that champ. That's 800 slots 1600 a week, and believe me, if 7* arena comes out top spenders won't care about 6* ones maybe only new players who are in the same level as their pears that decide to spend and will fastly shift into higher rankings.
There is also a top 1-5% for newer accounts to grind for the 5* version of a basic and featured champ.
The next bracket has a top 6-10% to gain 10k 5* shards and 2k 6* shards. That is straight up a new 5* champ.
There is also a 4* arena for completely new accounts with a top 400 nexus plus a 1-10% reward of 2k shards which is a 4 star champ.
When I started this game a grinded all these as well. If you have not read other comments I used to play map 8 AQ with 4* champs. I most of the time still use my 5* Quake in low Platinum AW.
This post is made to make awareness of the impact of how some events affect it's non spender players and if this keeps going, some may stop playing competitively or quit the game.
Super Daily Event is brought up to the conversation because it is an example of an event that impacts the problematic of having Grinding Resources Decreased against the increased resources from spending events which all affect FTP and low spending players.
I compared 3 resources from SDE and 7h and 22h events to literally prove that it's affecting the grinding player base. I also explained how 7h and 22h events have impacted my account positively as an arena grinder thanks to those 3 resources.
I even explained how 100k grindable units a year off hard work is not enough to compete for top rankings in mcoc alliance game modes (or solo for that matter) even if you buy out July 4th and Cyberweekend stores with those units.
If that weren't enough, I even explained how alliance based game modes are heavily favored towards spenders not being able to play under same circumstances.
The way I see things, I am a clear example of how it is frustrating to compete in this game at top levels even though I grind out all of the possible resources the game offers on a daily basis. Now with the grinding resources being reduced from 7h & 22h and the resources left also being awarded to players that spend to play with SDE event the roaster gap will keep growing and growing making it impossible to compete.
As for my arena grinding points, I literally explained that I grind with strategy: mastery setup, hype on a champ, knowing if there will be an event released in that time period, etc. Why would I go over the cut off by 100m points when the champ is earned with 150m? That doesn't make sense, I would just be wasting the resources I claim to be so useful for my next grinds. Keep in mind I have 500k 7* shards to open, 5 full 7* crystals, 1mil 6* shards, option to take four 7*s to rank 3 and 200 25% t6cc to rank up my champs and earn more points. If I still have the resources from solo crystal shards I can compete, however if they take them away clearly not.
I have nothing more to say, if all this explanation doesn't justify my point as you say, I don't know what will.
With how much time your grind, wouldn't it simply be a better use of time to get a job (or side hustle) and use that money to purchase things? I simply can't imagine grinding that much every single day in arenas and elsewhere.
Not everyone is in the US, there is some countries that a full time job pays too little.
Imagine grinding that much for a Silver Sable agh...
I have nothing more to say, if all this explanation doesn't justify my point as you say, I don't know what will.
Nothing will as you are a complete egocentric narcissist. It is you that can’t take anyone else’s point of view, not the hundreds of people that disagree with you. You are not free to play, sigil to play is a stupid notion and within a year all the 6 stars you are grinding for will be useless to you in 7 arena as whales will have the exact same 6 stars and more r3/4 7 stars to refresh while you are spending your time going through your many 6 r1/2/3.
I have played with you and we both know the response you are getting here is the same you get with your team mates so it’s you that doesn’t listen or understand as you are completely absorbed with your own point of view and an extremely selfish team mate….to your own detriment.
your point is just so stupid you can’t see it. Thos bosts hasn’t really help you In getting this champion.
Ok. I'm just gonna say this. So someone decides to give their ideas, and simultaneously mostly disagree. So when someone speaks out, mostly everyone bashes that player. Honestly I'm tired of this whole bring dse back. So I'm just gonna say. If you want it back. Pay for it. Mostly I just autofighted without getting anything done. And drinking beer. That was easy. But I'm not the one to say bring it back because of certain reasons. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. It's a choice if we want to respond to it. Are we a community or a bickering one?
With how much time your grind, wouldn't it simply be a better use of time to get a job (or side hustle) and use that money to purchase things? I simply can't imagine grinding that much every single day in arenas and elsewhere.
Not everyone is in the US, there is some countries that a full time job pays too little.
Imagine grinding that much for a Silver Sable agh...
Bold of you to assume that full time jobs in the US have pay that isn't too little
With how much time your grind, wouldn't it simply be a better use of time to get a job (or side hustle) and use that money to purchase things? I simply can't imagine grinding that much every single day in arenas and elsewhere.
Not everyone is in the US, there is some countries that a full time job pays too little.
Imagine grinding that much for a Silver Sable agh...
Bold of you to assume that full time jobs in the US have pay that isn't too little
Maybe if you compare by PPP. But in my country, 20$ an hour makes you easily the top 5% if not top 1%>
This post is made to make awareness of the impact of how some events affect it's non spender players and if this keeps going, some may stop playing competitively or quit the game.
Your point is invalid, because you claim it’s detrimental to FTP when in reality you spend on sigil so you’re not free to play. Real free to play players would be fine with the super event, it’s just low spenders like you that are affected and even within your scope, there is a small amount of people who are actually that competitive to do all that grinding where the difference would make a impact.
Ok. I'm just gonna say this. So someone decides to give their ideas, and simultaneously mostly disagree. So when someone speaks out, mostly everyone bashes that player. Honestly I'm tired of this whole bring dse back. So I'm just gonna say. If you want it back. Pay for it. Mostly I just autofighted without getting anything done. And drinking beer. That was easy. But I'm not the one to say bring it back because of certain reasons. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. It's a choice if we want to respond to it. Are we a community or a bickering one?
This guy is advocating for putting dailies behind a paywall. The absolute bare minimum that incentivize logging in at least once a day in games.
With how much time your grind, wouldn't it simply be a better use of time to get a job (or side hustle) and use that money to purchase things? I simply can't imagine grinding that much every single day in arenas and elsewhere.
Not everyone is in the US, there is some countries that a full time job pays too little.
Imagine grinding that much for a Silver Sable agh...
Bold of you to assume that full time jobs in the US have pay that isn't too little
Maybe if you compare by PPP. But in my country, 20$ an hour makes you easily the top 5% if not top 1%>
Ok. I'm just gonna say this. So someone decides to give their ideas, and simultaneously mostly disagree. So when someone speaks out, mostly everyone bashes that player. Honestly I'm tired of this whole bring dse back. So I'm just gonna say. If you want it back. Pay for it. Mostly I just autofighted without getting anything done. And drinking beer. That was easy. But I'm not the one to say bring it back because of certain reasons. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. It's a choice if we want to respond to it. Are we a community or a bickering one?
This guy is advocating for putting dailies behind a paywall. The absolute bare minimum that incentivize logging in at least once a day in games.
I'm not saying put dailies behind a paywall. Do you ever read anything right? Some people like dse and some are okay with the old system. All I'm saying is yes it was a trial run yes it ended. Stuff like this to figure out takes time. Who knows. They might keep the old style and buff the rewards or do something totally different. We don't have to keep posting to bring it back now. Who are we to demand things from a company? I'm pretty sure they are looking into things already.
This post is made to make awareness of the impact of how some events affect it's non spender players and if this keeps going, some may stop playing competitively or quit the game.
Your point is invalid, because you claim it’s detrimental to FTP when in reality you spend on sigil so you’re not free to play. Real free to play players would be fine with the super event, it’s just low spenders like you that are affected and even within your scope, there is a small amount of people who are actually that competitive to do all that grinding where the difference would make a impact.
Loool at this point it's just funny tbh. I don't care about SDE Kabam can leave it, put it on a pay roll, buff its rewards, nerf its rewards... I don't care one bit, that is NOT the point. SDE is just brought into conversation as an example.
Problem is they are reducing the grinding resources, Yes I spend on Sigil therefore it affects FTP that don't spend a single penny.
This post is made to make awareness of the impact of how some events affect it's non spender players and if this keeps going, some may stop playing competitively or quit the game.
Your point is invalid, because you claim it’s detrimental to FTP when in reality you spend on sigil so you’re not free to play. Real free to play players would be fine with the super event, it’s just low spenders like you that are affected and even within your scope, there is a small amount of people who are actually that competitive to do all that grinding where the difference would make a impact.
Loool at this point it's just funny tbh. I don't care about SDE Kabam can leave it, put it on a pay roll, buff its rewards, nerf its rewards... I don't care one bit, that is NOT the point. SDE is just brought into conversation as an example.
Problem is they are reducing the grinding resources, Yes I spend on Sigil therefore it affects FTP that don't spend a single penny.
No it won’t effect them as much as you think it does because most f2p doesn’t grind like you do
So many people here talking about SDE event itself, if they like it or not... Those comments serve no purpose or valid argument to the problematic of GRINDING RESOURCES being decreased compared to SPENDING RESOURCES.
So many people saying "you aren't free to play, you spend, your a spender, etc" has no relevance because if it's affecting myself that I buy Sigil therefore it affects people that don't spend at all.
Let me put an example, simple logic. 25 cents is less than a dollar therefore 5 cents is also less than a dollar, are both amounts less than a dollar? YES
your point is just so stupid you can’t see it. Thos bosts hasn’t really help you In getting this champion.
I missed 1st ounslout grind by less than 5m points, can Boosts grant 5mil points in over 500+ matches? I also missed Destroyer grind by less than 3min points, can they give over 3m points in over 500 matches? YEEEEEEESSSSS
your point is just so stupid you can’t see it. Thos bosts hasn’t really help you In getting this champion.
I missed 1st ounslout grind by less than 5m points, can Boosts grant 5mil points in over 500+ matches? I also missed Destroyer grind by less than 3min points, can they give over 3m points in over 500 matches? YEEEEEEESSSSS
If you have to grind like that’s no f2p is grinding as hard as you do to stay slightly relevant you never sow Brian grant grind anymore
your point is just so stupid you can’t see it. Thos bosts hasn’t really help you In getting this champion.
I missed 1st ounslout grind by less than 5m points, can Boosts grant 5mil points in over 500+ matches? I also missed Destroyer grind by less than 3min points, can they give over 3m points in over 500 matches? YEEEEEEESSSSS
If you have to grind like that’s no f2p is grinding as hard as you do to stay slightly relevant you never sow Brian grant grind anymore
Because grinding like this is pointless and jts stupid to think you can stay competitive without spending
Ok. I'm just gonna say this. So someone decides to give their ideas, and simultaneously mostly disagree. So when someone speaks out, mostly everyone bashes that player. Honestly I'm tired of this whole bring dse back. So I'm just gonna say. If you want it back. Pay for it. Mostly I just autofighted without getting anything done. And drinking beer. That was easy. But I'm not the one to say bring it back because of certain reasons. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. It's a choice if we want to respond to it. Are we a community or a bickering one?
This guy is advocating for putting dailies behind a paywall. The absolute bare minimum that incentivize logging in at least once a day in games.
I'm not saying put dailies behind a paywall. Do you ever read anything right? Some people like dse and some are okay with the old system. All I'm saying is yes it was a trial run yes it ended. Stuff like this to figure out takes time. Who knows. They might keep the old style and buff the rewards or do something totally different. We don't have to keep posting to bring it back now. Who are we to demand things from a company? I'm pretty sure they are looking into things already.
You made a post specifically questioning having SDE behind a paywall and paying for it. Then double down by saying if players want SDE they should pay for it.
I compared 3 resources from SDE and 7h and 22h events to literally prove that it's affecting the grinding player base. I also explained how 7h and 22h events have impacted my account positively as an arena grinder thanks to those 3 resources.
And I made the case that those three resources don't have the impact you claim. No one is arguing that there's zero changes. You can keep claiming "its obviously different" and it is, but it isn't obviously materially deleterious to players doing tons of arena grinding. Of those three resources:
- Gold was increased elsewhere. You haven't made an argument that gold overall is excessively constrained. - Boosts are decreased, but you haven't made an argument for why this would be noticeably impactful to arena grinders grinding for featured champs. In fact *you* proved by example how it had no impact on your grind at all. - I'm pretty sure everyone is scratching their heads over how solo shards can significantly impact featured grinds. Milestone grinds for players will smaller rosters, maybe. Featured grinds? I've been playing this game for nine years, and grinding for over seven of those years, and I can't figure that one out at all.
Let me know how these translate into featured champ grinds, so I can get all of them forever and ever.
If you think the gold reduction is a problem, fine. The gold was increased elsewhere, but if you think you are entitled to gold specifically in daily events and nowhere else, that's your prerogative. If you think the boosts are a problem, fine. The numbers say otherwise, and everyone can see it, but if that's the hill you want to die on, that's your choice as well. And if you think the solo shards are critical to your competitiveness, you can try to make that argument, however opaque that might be. But when you say "if this doesn't justify my point I don't know what will" I believe you, because no one has any idea what your point is. You started by saying that the Super Daily "makes all your hard work useless" but then you offer no logical reason for this. You seem to think everyone is just supposed to take your word for it. And every time you present numbers, they say the opposite. You say the lack of boosts hurts, but then you show numbers that say boosts had no impact on your ability to grind for featured champs. You say the lack of gold is a problem, but then you say that calculations that show otherwise are irrelevant. And then you say that all of this is necessary to be "competitive" in the game, and then present a definition of competitiveness that contains ludicrous expectations for the game.
No one is arguing that replacing all of the daily and weekly engagement rewards with the Super Daily won't change something somewhere. Of course it will. Overwhelmingly, it will almost certainly cause more players to earn more rewards for playing the game however they want. That *does* change the competitive landscape in subtle ways. Yes, players who were earning less would be earning more. Some players who were earning more would be earning less. And in the long run, that will have some kind of impact somewhere. But these are small subtle changes, that have to be weighed against the greater good of the playerbase as a whole. If we were talking about a serious dramatic shift in competitive play, that would be worth considering. But neither you nor anyone else has made a compelling case that the changes aren't anything but marginal.
You are trying to take your one very specific situation and claim that it represents some large set of underdog players trying to get by in the game. But no one believes that, because you haven't made any case that is relatable to any significant number of players. How many players do you think are grinding 100k units every year and complaining that Kabam still isn't giving them enough chance to "compete" with the whales? How many players do you think grind the featured champ every single cycle and think if they run out of 15% attack boosts they might as well just give up entirely? How many players do you think are looking at the Super Daily event and saying wow, I get more units, I get more catalysts, but wait I get fewer solo shards this is an outrage?
You have an opinion, and you're entitled to advocate for it, but everyone else is entitled to be critical of your argument in favor of it, and question your characterization of your opinion as representing anything more than a personal problem. In my opinion, your arguments are "not enough" because they aren't just not enough, in many cases they go in the complete opposite direction from where they are supposed to go.
If you think posting pictures of your featured grinds, which *prove* attack boosts had zero impact on your ability to get those champs, is just "not enough" to prove your case, when they are unambiguously proving the exact opposite of your case, then I'm not sure you will find the right argument to prove your case, because you think the problem with your arguments is "not enough," and not "completely wrong."
All this affects the amount of rewards a FTP/STP can achieve in mcoc. UNITS are the games most valued currency and it's tied back on ALL of its game areas including arenas. If 7* arenas ever come out they will most likely come as a top 100 format like 6*s used to be.
Were you able to score high enough to place top 100 before they changed arenas in Spring 2023? New champions were going for 250-350m to rank in the top 100. Right now you're benefiting from a "hand me down" effect. Arenas aren't worth the grind for top accounts these days, so it's easier for smaller accounts to obtain these champions now.
If a 7* arena with a top 100 cutoff were to arrive, the scores would be off the charts. We haven't seen what kind of points these top arena grinders are capable of with the rosters they have today. There hasn't been anything to entice them to grind like that. I wouldn't be surprised to see cutoff scores in the 400-500m range if and when a 7* arena becomes a thing.
If you have to grind like that’s no f2p is grinding as hard as you do to stay slightly relevant you never sow Brian grant grind anymore
Because grinding like this is pointless and jts stupid to think you can stay competitive without spending
Perfect so by reading both of these comments we can say that there is a Problem, FTP and low spenders don't have a chance to compete in this game at high ranks even though they grind out all game areas on a daily basis (I am prove of that).
The only way we can reduce the roster gap is by grinding. If they reduce grinding resources (SDE Example) or add more pay events (Omega days Example) but don't add another grinding event than roster gap gets bigger and bigger and we don't have a chance to compete.
If they are not going to do anything about it, fine, I want to know.
If that happens then I can stop buying Sigil. Maybe other FTP or low spenders do as well, who knows, they are free to decide. If I see a comment about someone complaining about roster gaps in BGs or not being able to compete I can share that info with them so they don't waste their time.
If you have to grind like that’s no f2p is grinding as hard as you do to stay slightly relevant you never sow Brian grant grind anymore
Because grinding like this is pointless and jts stupid to think you can stay competitive without spending
Perfect so by reading both of these comments we can say that there is a Problem, FTP and low spenders don't have a chance to compete in this game at high ranks even though they grind out all game areas on a daily basis (I am prove of that).
The only way we can reduce the roster gap is by grinding. If they reduce grinding resources (SDE Example) or add more pay events (Omega days Example) but don't add another grinding event than roster gap gets bigger and bigger and we don't have a chance to compete.
If they are not going to do anything about it, fine, I want to know.
If that happens then I can stop buying Sigil. Maybe other FTP or low spenders do as well, who knows, they are free to decide. If I see a comment about someone complaining about roster gaps in BGs or not being able to compete I can share that info with them so they don't waste their time.
There was probably never meant to burn them self out like you do
Ok. I'm just gonna say this. So someone decides to give their ideas, and simultaneously mostly disagree. So when someone speaks out, mostly everyone bashes that player. Honestly I'm tired of this whole bring dse back. So I'm just gonna say. If you want it back. Pay for it. Mostly I just autofighted without getting anything done. And drinking beer. That was easy. But I'm not the one to say bring it back because of certain reasons. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. It's a choice if we want to respond to it. Are we a community or a bickering one?
This guy is advocating for putting dailies behind a paywall. The absolute bare minimum that incentivize logging in at least once a day in games.
I'm not saying put dailies behind a paywall. Do you ever read anything right? Some people like dse and some are okay with the old system. All I'm saying is yes it was a trial run yes it ended. Stuff like this to figure out takes time. Who knows. They might keep the old style and buff the rewards or do something totally different. We don't have to keep posting to bring it back now. Who are we to demand things from a company? I'm pretty sure they are looking into things already.
You made a post specifically questioning having SDE behind a paywall and paying for it. Then double down by saying if players want SDE they should pay for it.
Just to quiet the whole arguments. Can we all just get a long lol besides I'm a dork 🤪
1) I made the post explaining the Gold, Iso and Boost reduction 2) I gave proof of what I achieve through grinding with those resources 3) I gave proof of how it affects not having those resources by not meeting cutoff by less than 5m points (boost helps add more points therefore also helps reduce grinding time, doesn't affect just featured champs adquisition)
I'll now explain how those resources help overall roster building and how you can get 7*s at a much faster rate rather than chasing for 7* shards. 7h & 22h vs SDE, I thought this was implied but maybe not.
Before I continue though, I'll answer your Trader Outpost argument. Kabam shifted some of that missing gold from 7h & 22h events into Trader Outpost, however spending players don't need Gold and also have non grindable access to those rewards so they buy out catalysts bundles. If a FTP player has the need to buy gold from there, they are loosing catalysts compared to spending players from game stores. So in fact this doesn't solve the problem of roster gap, it actually harms it. That is the simple reason why I don't buy gold from Trader Outpost.
Comments
It also is a smaller number than what I said above because I am certain that a number of players who grind those arenas for new champs are also spenders and therefore not in the group that you are asking to be considered here. In reality, you are asking for the needs of a group that are likely in the double-digits, maaaaybe the low hundreds, to be placed above everybody else. And that’s just straight not how game design works.
Imagine grinding that much for a Silver Sable agh...
For the current 6* featured arenas I may not have a problem grinding but how about a 7* arena locked under a top 100 reward system? In that scenario, solo crystal shards and therefore boosts squired from 7h and 22h events will be a Huge impact for that goal against my spending opponents roasters.
It is not my place to tell you or anyone else what to like or dislike, and it is also not my place to tell you what to advocate for. If you like the Super Daily, fine, if you don't like it, that's also entirely your prerogative.
However, you started this thread by presenting a quantitative argument (which in general I appreciate) to support a position that I just don't believe is justified, and the more numbers you show, the less convincing your argument appears to become.
The arena is a great place for F2P or low spending players to attempt to compensate for not spending. However, it has limits. Those limits are *gigantic* for players willing to put in the time, but there are still limits. You claim the Super Daily hurts F2P and low spending players who are trying to catch up to spenders. But that's not true. There are thousands of players grinding arena, and many of them probably are free to play or low spending players, and they are all gaining rewards from the arena they would not otherwise be able to get, and this game offers them that opportunity.
The game offers dedicated free to play and low spending players like you the ability to earn over a hundred thousand units in a year, which would take over three thousand dollars to buy. It also offers dedicated arena grinders the ability earn new release featured champs relatively soon after they are introduced into the game. And it offers significant reward opportunities for players who can earn enough units during its big sale days.
You're saying all of that is not enough, that this is not "competitive" enough, and your definition of "competitive" is such that if a player *only* gets this, that's simply not enough. I don't honestly think you're going to get a lot of sympathy for that position, and frankly when you say you're advocating for all the players in the same situation, I'm not sure that set of players can fill a phone booth. No, it won't. I could give you a billion attack boosts and a trillion solo crystal shards, and you still aren't going to place top 100 in a 7* arena, if it looks anything at all like our current arena structure. You didn't even place top 100 in any of the featured 6* arenas you posted. And as I said, top 100 in a 7* arena is going to score way higher than top 100 in the 6* featured arena. Let's look at the data. I can see that top 100 for Silver Sable, an average new run champ, took over 150 million points. We would expect top 100 in a hypothetical 7* arena to require a lot more. Let's guestimate at least 250 million (if I was actually betting cash, I'd say over 300 million, but let's be as conservative as possible).
When was the last time you scored over 250 million points in the featured arena? If you had to, could you?
As I said, if you don't like the Super Daily, you are entitled to express that preference. But if you're going to try to make a quantitative argument that the Super Daily is unfair to some players, the logic has to work and the "some" players needs to be greater than one. I simply don't see the evidence that the Super Daily actually hurts anyone, and if someone were to try to make that claim, I would use *your* thread to disprove them. You are, by your own presentation, an unambiguous counter to that argument.
When the best argument against your position is your own arguments in favor of it, something has gone completely awry.
Yes it's tied behind arena grinding at some point but it's not only for 400 people. There are two 6* arenas, I play for featured, lower accounts can grind for basics, even I sometimes do both, 1st featured and on next 3 days the basic if I don't have that champ. That's 800 slots 1600 a week, and believe me, if 7* arena comes out top spenders won't care about 6* ones maybe only new players who are in the same level as their pears that decide to spend and will fastly shift into higher rankings.
There is also a top 1-5% for newer accounts to grind for the 5* version of a basic and featured champ.
The next bracket has a top 6-10% to gain 10k 5* shards and 2k 6* shards. That is straight up a new 5* champ.
There is also a 4* arena for completely new accounts with a top 400 nexus plus a 1-10% reward of 2k shards which is a 4 star champ.
When I started this game a grinded all these as well. If you have not read other comments I used to play map 8 AQ with 4* champs. I most of the time still use my 5* Quake in low Platinum AW.
I compared 3 resources from SDE and 7h and 22h events to literally prove that it's affecting the grinding player base. I also explained how 7h and 22h events have impacted my account positively as an arena grinder thanks to those 3 resources.
I even explained how 100k grindable units a year off hard work is not enough to compete for top rankings in mcoc alliance game modes (or solo for that matter) even if you buy out July 4th and Cyberweekend stores with those units.
If that weren't enough, I even explained how alliance based game modes are heavily favored towards spenders not being able to play under same circumstances.
The way I see things, I am a clear example of how it is frustrating to compete in this game at top levels even though I grind out all of the possible resources the game offers on a daily basis. Now with the grinding resources being reduced from 7h & 22h and the resources left also being awarded to players that spend to play with SDE event the roaster gap will keep growing and growing making it impossible to compete.
As for my arena grinding points, I literally explained that I grind with strategy: mastery setup, hype on a champ, knowing if there will be an event released in that time period, etc. Why would I go over the cut off by 100m points when the champ is earned with 150m? That doesn't make sense, I would just be wasting the resources I claim to be so useful for my next grinds. Keep in mind I have 500k 7* shards to open, 5 full 7* crystals, 1mil 6* shards, option to take four 7*s to rank 3 and 200 25% t6cc to rank up my champs and earn more points. If I still have the resources from solo crystal shards I can compete, however if they take them away clearly not.
I have nothing more to say, if all this explanation doesn't justify my point as you say, I don't know what will.
Thos bosts hasn’t really help you In getting this champion.
Your point is invalid, because you claim it’s detrimental to FTP when in reality you spend on sigil so you’re not free to play. Real free to play players would be fine with the super event, it’s just low spenders like you that are affected and even within your scope, there is a small amount of people who are actually that competitive to do all that grinding where the difference would make a impact.
Problem is they are reducing the grinding resources, Yes I spend on Sigil therefore it affects FTP that don't spend a single penny.
So many people saying "you aren't free to play, you spend, your a spender, etc" has no relevance because if it's affecting myself that I buy Sigil therefore it affects people that don't spend at all.
Let me put an example, simple logic.
25 cents is less than a dollar therefore 5 cents is also less than a dollar, are both amounts less than a dollar? YES
Thos bosts hasn’t really help you In getting this champion.
I missed 1st ounslout grind by less than 5m points, can Boosts grant 5mil points in over 500+ matches? I also missed Destroyer grind by less than 3min points, can they give over 3m points in over 500 matches? YEEEEEEESSSSS
Thos bosts hasn’t really help you In getting this champion.
I missed 1st ounslout grind by less than 5m points, can Boosts grant 5mil points in over 500+ matches? I also missed Destroyer grind by less than 3min points, can they give over 3m points in over 500 matches? YEEEEEEESSSSS
If you have to grind like that’s no f2p is grinding as hard as you do to stay slightly relevant you never sow Brian grant grind anymore
I missed 1st ounslout grind by less than 5m points, can Boosts grant 5mil points in over 500+ matches? I also missed Destroyer grind by less than 3min points, can they give over 3m points in over 500 matches? YEEEEEEESSSSS
If you have to grind like that’s no f2p is grinding as hard as you do to stay slightly relevant you never sow Brian grant grind anymore
Because grinding like this is pointless and jts stupid to think you can stay competitive without spending
- Gold was increased elsewhere. You haven't made an argument that gold overall is excessively constrained.
- Boosts are decreased, but you haven't made an argument for why this would be noticeably impactful to arena grinders grinding for featured champs. In fact *you* proved by example how it had no impact on your grind at all.
- I'm pretty sure everyone is scratching their heads over how solo shards can significantly impact featured grinds. Milestone grinds for players will smaller rosters, maybe. Featured grinds? I've been playing this game for nine years, and grinding for over seven of those years, and I can't figure that one out at all.
Let me know how these translate into featured champ grinds, so I can get all of them forever and ever.
If you think the gold reduction is a problem, fine. The gold was increased elsewhere, but if you think you are entitled to gold specifically in daily events and nowhere else, that's your prerogative. If you think the boosts are a problem, fine. The numbers say otherwise, and everyone can see it, but if that's the hill you want to die on, that's your choice as well. And if you think the solo shards are critical to your competitiveness, you can try to make that argument, however opaque that might be. But when you say "if this doesn't justify my point I don't know what will" I believe you, because no one has any idea what your point is. You started by saying that the Super Daily "makes all your hard work useless" but then you offer no logical reason for this. You seem to think everyone is just supposed to take your word for it. And every time you present numbers, they say the opposite. You say the lack of boosts hurts, but then you show numbers that say boosts had no impact on your ability to grind for featured champs. You say the lack of gold is a problem, but then you say that calculations that show otherwise are irrelevant. And then you say that all of this is necessary to be "competitive" in the game, and then present a definition of competitiveness that contains ludicrous expectations for the game.
No one is arguing that replacing all of the daily and weekly engagement rewards with the Super Daily won't change something somewhere. Of course it will. Overwhelmingly, it will almost certainly cause more players to earn more rewards for playing the game however they want. That *does* change the competitive landscape in subtle ways. Yes, players who were earning less would be earning more. Some players who were earning more would be earning less. And in the long run, that will have some kind of impact somewhere. But these are small subtle changes, that have to be weighed against the greater good of the playerbase as a whole. If we were talking about a serious dramatic shift in competitive play, that would be worth considering. But neither you nor anyone else has made a compelling case that the changes aren't anything but marginal.
You are trying to take your one very specific situation and claim that it represents some large set of underdog players trying to get by in the game. But no one believes that, because you haven't made any case that is relatable to any significant number of players. How many players do you think are grinding 100k units every year and complaining that Kabam still isn't giving them enough chance to "compete" with the whales? How many players do you think grind the featured champ every single cycle and think if they run out of 15% attack boosts they might as well just give up entirely? How many players do you think are looking at the Super Daily event and saying wow, I get more units, I get more catalysts, but wait I get fewer solo shards this is an outrage?
You have an opinion, and you're entitled to advocate for it, but everyone else is entitled to be critical of your argument in favor of it, and question your characterization of your opinion as representing anything more than a personal problem. In my opinion, your arguments are "not enough" because they aren't just not enough, in many cases they go in the complete opposite direction from where they are supposed to go.
If you think posting pictures of your featured grinds, which *prove* attack boosts had zero impact on your ability to get those champs, is just "not enough" to prove your case, when they are unambiguously proving the exact opposite of your case, then I'm not sure you will find the right argument to prove your case, because you think the problem with your arguments is "not enough," and not "completely wrong."
If a 7* arena with a top 100 cutoff were to arrive, the scores would be off the charts. We haven't seen what kind of points these top arena grinders are capable of with the rosters they have today. There hasn't been anything to entice them to grind like that. I wouldn't be surprised to see cutoff scores in the 400-500m range if and when a 7* arena becomes a thing.
If you have to grind like that’s no f2p is grinding as hard as you do to stay slightly relevant you never sow Brian grant grind anymore
Because grinding like this is pointless and jts stupid to think you can stay competitive without spending
Perfect so by reading both of these comments we can say that there is a Problem, FTP and low spenders don't have a chance to compete in this game at high ranks even though they grind out all game areas on a daily basis (I am prove of that).
The only way we can reduce the roster gap is by grinding. If they reduce grinding resources (SDE Example) or add more pay events (Omega days Example) but don't add another grinding event than roster gap gets bigger and bigger and we don't have a chance to compete.
If they are not going to do anything about it, fine, I want to know.
If that happens then I can stop buying Sigil. Maybe other FTP or low spenders do as well, who knows, they are free to decide. If I see a comment about someone complaining about roster gaps in BGs or not being able to compete I can share that info with them so they don't waste their time.
Because grinding like this is pointless and jts stupid to think you can stay competitive without spending
Perfect so by reading both of these comments we can say that there is a Problem, FTP and low spenders don't have a chance to compete in this game at high ranks even though they grind out all game areas on a daily basis (I am prove of that).
The only way we can reduce the roster gap is by grinding. If they reduce grinding resources (SDE Example) or add more pay events (Omega days Example) but don't add another grinding event than roster gap gets bigger and bigger and we don't have a chance to compete.
If they are not going to do anything about it, fine, I want to know.
If that happens then I can stop buying Sigil. Maybe other FTP or low spenders do as well, who knows, they are free to decide. If I see a comment about someone complaining about roster gaps in BGs or not being able to compete I can share that info with them so they don't waste their time.
There was probably never meant to burn them self out like you do
1) I made the post explaining the Gold, Iso and Boost reduction
2) I gave proof of what I achieve through grinding with those resources
3) I gave proof of how it affects not having those resources by not meeting cutoff by less than 5m points (boost helps add more points therefore also helps reduce grinding time, doesn't affect just featured champs adquisition)
I'll now explain how those resources help overall roster building and how you can get 7*s at a much faster rate rather than chasing for 7* shards. 7h & 22h vs SDE, I thought this was implied but maybe not.
Before I continue though, I'll answer your Trader Outpost argument. Kabam shifted some of that missing gold from 7h & 22h events into Trader Outpost, however spending players don't need Gold and also have non grindable access to those rewards so they buy out catalysts bundles. If a FTP player has the need to buy gold from there, they are loosing catalysts compared to spending players from game stores. So in fact this doesn't solve the problem of roster gap, it actually harms it. That is the simple reason why I don't buy gold from Trader Outpost.