After reading through all the posts, I realize that the issue isn't the damage cap, it's the hit limit. I agree with what most everyone else said, without a way to pause the loss of the skirmish and warfare stacks, you are removing skill from the equation and making it solely about money/unit spend.
It’s definitely all about money.Its not about skill somebody like COW can just pay his way through.Also definitely not created for players to enjoy,have fun or be entertained in the least nothing in the post looks enjoyable.
Just grueling,stressful,aggravating and rage inducing(great game design)created to bleed you dry of money buying units or/also milk players to buy Cavs and resources to “grow the breath of you’re roster”.
But hey it’s permanent content so no rush wait until the rewards are outdated like Lab rewards are now or until you get a 2nd job,hit the lottery,take out a loan or rob a bank just to be able to complete content in a video game.
The commentary on certain players never completing this and certain factors here having nothing to do with skill... so can we expect to see anyone from Kabam actually complete this content? Particularly without needing to spend money/units?
The commentary on certain players never completing this and certain factors here having nothing to do with skill... so can we expect to see anyone from Kabam actually complete this content? Particularly without needing to spend money/units?
I don’t like the damage cap or the hit cap but I think it’s pretty clear the intent. No, you can’t expect someone from kabam completing this content and CERTAINLY not without spending. It doesn’t matter if they can/will complete it. The point of the Abyss is to be THE MOST DIFFICULT content there is. You WILL have to spend if you want to complete it now. If not then wait.
Ok guys they are basically telling you they are releasing content that you can't beat. Meaning use wallet or wait 4 years. I'm sure speaking here on the forums I'm talking to the wrong people but guys just don't do it. If it indeed comes out and you can tell it's impossible with a bazillion units just don't do it simple as that. Let that wallets do it and go have fun doing something else is all.
You said you are going to be reviewing people who run through abyss. Does this mean you will make sure people are not using mercs to do it? Or just hacking the game.
I'd really like to see perma bans for people piloting and using mercs
I'm glad they actually answered the question seatin posed. I've been trying to ask this every time something comes out. It seems they just can't stop Mercs or hackers for whatever reason bro.
I don’t see the hit cap any different from the enrage timer back in the day. Yeah maybe with synergies you could achieve a larger timer but it essentially punished you from bringing someone not at the level for it. So, it’s basically the same just harder (which makes sense).
Now, the damage cap I am disappointed it exists. I really thought all this insane specials were going to shine here.
But the worst of ALL is the locked camera. I wish you would remove it. Imo it doesn’t add difficulty in a quest. It adds a nuisance.
I don’t see the hit cap any different from the enrage timer back in the day. Yeah maybe with synergies you could achieve a larger timer but it essentially punished you from bringing someone not at the level for it. So, it’s basically the same just harder (which makes sense).
Now, the damage cap I am disappointed it exists. I really thought all this insane specials were going to shine here.
But the worst of ALL is the locked camera. I wish you would remove it. Imo it doesn’t add difficulty in a quest. It adds a nuisance.
Most LOL fights needed well over 240 hits but all are soloable with the correct skill.
I don’t see the hit cap any different from the enrage timer back in the day. Yeah maybe with synergies you could achieve a larger timer but it essentially punished you from bringing someone not at the level for it. So, it’s basically the same just harder (which makes sense).
Now, the damage cap I am disappointed it exists. I really thought all this insane specials were going to shine here.
But the worst of ALL is the locked camera. I wish you would remove it. Imo it doesn’t add difficulty in a quest. It adds a nuisance.
A hit cap literally punishes skill and rewards nothing but money it's a bad direction to go
A way to refresh or pause the skirmish and warfare charges would have been the perfect way to balance skill vs spending.
Great idea. Something like intercepts add 10 hits to the combo or something like that. If you play perfectly you can solo the fights. As it loos now you won't be able to do that.
In general I'm in favor of skill-based challenges over mechanical limiting challenges, but as the Abyss is supposed to be challenging not just to players of, say, my caliber but specifically a very very difficult challenge for even the most skilled players in the game, what skill challenge could we invent that would challenge them? Making skirmish charges refresh with intercepting is tantamount to making them practically not exist for top players.
It is extremely difficult to think up a skill challenge that, say, mvincible can't do at all today but could learn to do in, say, a couple months of practice. To me, that's the only kind of skill challenge that would be acceptable for the Abyss when it comes to something like forestalling the effects of skirmish and warfare charges. If it doesn't challenge them in that way, then it isn't a challenge for those players it is just a reward for them to scoop up.
I apologize in advance if this sounds snarky but can you explain how putting a damage and combo meter cap on every fight makes the Abyss more skill based than adding a mechanic that refreshes charges with intercepting? As it sounds now the Abyss is not really a skill based challenge. It’s either a cash throw down or wait two years until you have an 8* R4 champ that has both a high enough CR and attack value to be able to do it without being forced to revive.
A way to refresh or pause the skirmish and warfare charges would have been the perfect way to balance skill vs spending.
Great idea. Something like intercepts add 10 hits to the combo or something like that. If you play perfectly you can solo the fights. As it loos now you won't be able to do that.
In general I'm in favor of skill-based challenges over mechanical limiting challenges, but as the Abyss is supposed to be challenging not just to players of, say, my caliber but specifically a very very difficult challenge for even the most skilled players in the game, what skill challenge could we invent that would challenge them? Making skirmish charges refresh with intercepting is tantamount to making them practically not exist for top players.
It is extremely difficult to think up a skill challenge that, say, mvincible can't do at all today but could learn to do in, say, a couple months of practice. To me, that's the only kind of skill challenge that would be acceptable for the Abyss when it comes to something like forestalling the effects of skirmish and warfare charges. If it doesn't challenge them in that way, then it isn't a challenge for those players it is just a reward for them to scoop up.
I apologize in advance if this sounds snarky but can you explain how putting a damage and combo meter cap on every fight makes the Abyss more skill based than adding a mechanic that refreshes charges with intercepting?
I did not say it did. I said that particular "skill challenge" was insufficiently high to challenge the top players in the game, and the intent is to challenge the top players in the game, not to challenge the intermediate players of the game while the top players of the game intercept their way to easy rewards.
The combo meter cap is not in and of itself an especially skill-related challenge, but it does create an additional challenge that top players cannot simply side step. And in content like the Abyss intended to challenge even the top players of the game, *first* it has to actually be a challenge to them. I'd prefer more skill-oriented challenges, but a skill-oriented challenge that is too easy transforms the content from something intended to challenge them to something that simply rewards them for existing. The one place this shouldn't happen is in content like the Abyss.
I have suggested ways to make content that is extremely difficult but also extremely skill-oriented, so I don't think that is an impossible task. But I'm acknowledging here that if it isn't hard enough, it doesn't matter if it involves skill. Not in this specific piece of content.
Damage cap, locked map, 240 hit combo tops. This is just ridiculous. Plus no skill way to solo any of these fights with any current champ available. Typical kabam.
If you're not ready for the hardest content in the Game, we're not forcing you. We've tossed every challenge from Labyrinth, and many more into this. Some will never beat it, and others will take years.
Or maybe those you suggest may take “years” just move on to other games. Seems bizarre to put out content with the expectation people are fine taking 3-4+ years to complete, get rewards that are good for today (not years later,) for a mobile game. You’re an optimistic bunch, I’ll give you that.
I think the community is undervaluing the rewards here, based on T5B and T2A amounts.
My personal view is that, based on the announced information, the Abyss has 5 paths, all with chests on them.
This means that Kabam did indeed listen to feedback about LOL that subsequent clears we’re underwhelming (completion runs #2-6) and shifted some of the exploration rewards out to chests to alleviate that concern.
So upon completion, we are looking at 1 additional t5b, t2a, 20 Sig stones, 5* crystal etc. Each subsequent completion run will also award the “additional” rewards up to the final exploration run.
Hence, imo, rewards wise, no issues.
However, layout wise, I agree with the majority of players that the camera should not be locked. As much as it’s a maze, a more confusing intersecting layout of the map would sufficiently address this aspect.
But if the aim is to milk the impatient whales who aren’t gonna wait for community crowdsourced map, then it wouldn’t affect us anyway, since 95% of those who plan to attempt it will wait for the map anyway.
Engage timers, seriously? Why? Having this cap of 240-260 hits severely limits champion and mastery options which imo, isn’t beneficial to any party. Like many mentioned above, rewarding skilled play is a better way around it.
Others have suggested above that the charges could be increased through the use of certain actions, and I agree with them, although having some reservations with regards to certain mechanics, mainly, the “miss” mechanic.
Personally, I feel that the most skilled play in this game is the use of intercepts and recent content seems to be agreeing and rewarding the use of intercepts, such as Do Not Go Gentle etc.
Hence I would suggest removing the global buffs that include charges and change them into the following:
“The attacker starts the fight with 100 Skirmish Charges. Upon taking a block, landing a hit, or getting hit, the attacker loses 1 Charge. The attacker also loses 5 charges per missed hit of the defender. Intercepting an attack gains the attacker 5 charges, and knocking them down gains the attacker 1 charge. Once the Charges reach 0, the defender is permanently unstoppable and unblockable.”
(I explored LOL in August 2016. Just missing out on the Legends title for it.)
If Guillotine 2099 starts the fight with a 100 hit combo meter, how will this interact with the number of Skirmish charges on the opponent? If this were to instantly remove 100 Skirmish charges from the opponent, Guillotine 2099 would be pretty much unusable.
I don’t see the hit cap any different from the enrage timer back in the day. Yeah maybe with synergies you could achieve a larger timer but it essentially punished you from bringing someone not at the level for it. So, it’s basically the same just harder (which makes sense).
Now, the damage cap I am disappointed it exists. I really thought all this insane specials were going to shine here.
But the worst of ALL is the locked camera. I wish you would remove it. Imo it doesn’t add difficulty in a quest. It adds a nuisance.
Most LOL fights needed well over 240 hits but all are soloable with the correct skill.
Back then ? Every fight ? I don’t think so. BW, Juggs, Maestro. I don’t remember them being soloable with a R4 SL
Remember this is NOT lol. This is supposed to be harder.
I don’t see the hit cap any different from the enrage timer back in the day. Yeah maybe with synergies you could achieve a larger timer but it essentially punished you from bringing someone not at the level for it. So, it’s basically the same just harder (which makes sense).
Now, the damage cap I am disappointed it exists. I really thought all this insane specials were going to shine here.
But the worst of ALL is the locked camera. I wish you would remove it. Imo it doesn’t add difficulty in a quest. It adds a nuisance.
A hit cap literally punishes skill and rewards nothing but money it's a bad direction to go
Right now yes. Eventually, when we have the necessary level of champs to do it, it won’t. A R4 maybe will be able to do it
I’m sorry but this is what they are aiming for. That’s the intent. There is no skill cap available in this game given the level of players we have. At least I can’t think of something skill based where the top players won’t be able to do it rather quickly. Of course I could be wrong here but even then (without the hit cap and with another skill-challenge) all you need is a little bad luck for that 1% evade and you’ll still die.
Trust me. I don’t like it. I’d rather have it with the skill-challenge. But as I saw lol and now this, I don’t think this content is meant for that.
Comments
Just grueling,stressful,aggravating and rage inducing(great game design)created to bleed you dry of money buying units or/also milk players to buy Cavs and resources to “grow the breath of you’re roster”.
But hey it’s permanent content so no rush wait until the rewards are outdated like Lab rewards are now or until you get a 2nd job,hit the lottery,take out a loan or rob a bank just to be able to complete content in a video game.
The commentary on certain players never completing this and certain factors here having nothing to do with skill... so can we expect to see anyone from Kabam actually complete this content? Particularly without needing to spend money/units?
No, you can’t expect someone from kabam completing this content and CERTAINLY not without spending. It doesn’t matter if they can/will complete it.
The point of the Abyss is to be THE MOST DIFFICULT content there is. You WILL have to spend if you want to complete it now. If not then wait.
Now, the damage cap I am disappointed it exists. I really thought all this insane specials were going to shine here.
But the worst of ALL is the locked camera. I wish you would remove it. Imo it doesn’t add difficulty in a quest. It adds a nuisance.
The whales will spend to finish it within a week.
By the time most players are able to tackle this the rewards will be so out of date (like LOL is now) that it won’t be worth the effort.
The combo meter cap is not in and of itself an especially skill-related challenge, but it does create an additional challenge that top players cannot simply side step. And in content like the Abyss intended to challenge even the top players of the game, *first* it has to actually be a challenge to them. I'd prefer more skill-oriented challenges, but a skill-oriented challenge that is too easy transforms the content from something intended to challenge them to something that simply rewards them for existing. The one place this shouldn't happen is in content like the Abyss.
I have suggested ways to make content that is extremely difficult but also extremely skill-oriented, so I don't think that is an impossible task. But I'm acknowledging here that if it isn't hard enough, it doesn't matter if it involves skill. Not in this specific piece of content.
I mean it still feels wrong but
If the chests do contain all of the rewards then that would be a huge difference.
I was excited for the abyss, now I’m meh...
My personal view is that, based on the announced information, the Abyss has 5 paths, all with chests on them.
This means that Kabam did indeed listen to feedback about LOL that subsequent clears we’re underwhelming (completion runs #2-6) and shifted some of the exploration rewards out to chests to alleviate that concern.
So upon completion, we are looking at 1 additional t5b, t2a, 20 Sig stones, 5* crystal etc. Each subsequent completion run will also award the “additional” rewards up to the final exploration run.
Hence, imo, rewards wise, no issues.
However, layout wise, I agree with the majority of players that the camera should not be locked. As much as it’s a maze, a more confusing intersecting layout of the map would sufficiently address this aspect.
But if the aim is to milk the impatient whales who aren’t gonna wait for community crowdsourced map, then it wouldn’t affect us anyway, since 95% of those who plan to attempt it will wait for the map anyway.
Engage timers, seriously? Why? Having this cap of 240-260 hits severely limits champion and mastery options which imo, isn’t beneficial to any party. Like many mentioned above, rewarding skilled play is a better way around it.
Others have suggested above that the charges could be increased through the use of certain actions, and I agree with them, although having some reservations with regards to certain mechanics, mainly, the “miss” mechanic.
Personally, I feel that the most skilled play in this game is the use of intercepts and recent content seems to be agreeing and rewarding the use of intercepts, such as Do Not Go Gentle etc.
Hence I would suggest removing the global buffs that include charges and change them into the following:
“The attacker starts the fight with 100 Skirmish Charges. Upon taking a block, landing a hit, or getting hit, the attacker loses 1 Charge. The attacker also loses 5 charges per missed hit of the defender. Intercepting an attack gains the attacker 5 charges, and knocking them down gains the attacker 1 charge. Once the Charges reach 0, the defender is permanently unstoppable and unblockable.”
(I explored LOL in August 2016. Just missing out on the Legends title for it.)
Can someone clear this up please?
Remember this is NOT lol. This is supposed to be harder.
I’m sorry but this is what they are aiming for. That’s the intent. There is no skill cap available in this game given the level of players we have. At least I can’t think of something skill based where the top players won’t be able to do it rather quickly. Of course I could be wrong here but even then (without the hit cap and with another skill-challenge) all you need is a little bad luck for that 1% evade and you’ll still die.
Trust me. I don’t like it. I’d rather have it with the skill-challenge. But as I saw lol and now this, I don’t think this content is meant for that.