Ok it seems some aren’t seeing the bigger issue with this change. These arenas are for UNCOLLECTED and up. Meaning 4*s are pretty much useless to them. For most that is. Outside of putting 270 units there and the bc there nothing there really for em. We don’t want or need 4* nexus crystals. The whole point of arena is to push players o the next higher arena. You are doing it backwards….I’m an arena grinder. I’ll tell ya now. No way I going to do 8 rounds of 4s in arena. That’s 16 hours total of wait time… you increased the effort here way more then was needed
Ok it seems some aren’t seeing the bigger issue with this change. These arenas are for UNCOLLECTED and up. Meaning 4*s are pretty much useless to them. For most that is. Outside of putting 270 units there and the bc there nothing there really for em. We don’t want or need 4* nexus crystals. The whole point of arena is to push players o the next higher arena. You are doing it backwards….I’m an arena grinder. I’ll tell ya now. No way I going to do 8 rounds of 4s in arena. That’s 16 hours total of wait time… you increased the effort here way more then was needed
The effort seems to have increased slightly to gain those units. Let me put it in terms of numbers. I could get approximately 600k points when I use my R4 and r5 4 star champs in a single round. With the old arena, I could get all the milestones in 3 rounds which is 210 minutes(3.5 hrs), get 120(2 hrs) minutes of 2 star and 120(2 hrs) minutes of 3 star arena. That's approximately 7.5 hrs of grinding. By using only 4 stars in the new arena, I need to grind 8.5 hours. The problem is I cannot grind them simultaneously. I need to wait for 4 stars to refresh or use 3 stars which yield less points.
How Hav the impact with the change for the 6 star to score almost the same as the 5 star or I’m missing understand it because if so that just bad for me
Its only in the basic arena. These changes are great
@Kabam Miike can you please confirm this? Is the lowered points scoring for 6*s in the basic arena only (max milestone of 4 mil) and the usual scoring in the featured arena (max milestone 12 mil). If so then I believe this is an incredible update to make grinding less painful
That is correct. 6-Stars only have their points reduced to match 5-Stars in the Basic Arena.
does the dupe of basic champion give iso and shards or not?
No. The Basic Hero has never given more than 1 Sig for a Champion, and that has not changed.
what about the featured champion? i think one of them used to give dupe before.
The Featured Champion will give a full Dupe, with ISO, Crystal Shards, Etc.
Does this include the 3 and 4 stars from the milestones? Cause we're not getting the iso from those dupes
How Hav the impact with the change for the 6 star to score almost the same as the 5 star or I’m missing understand it because if so that just bad for me
Its only in the basic arena. These changes are great
@Kabam Miike can you please confirm this? Is the lowered points scoring for 6*s in the basic arena only (max milestone of 4 mil) and the usual scoring in the featured arena (max milestone 12 mil). If so then I believe this is an incredible update to make grinding less painful
That is correct. 6-Stars only have their points reduced to match 5-Stars in the Basic Arena.
does the dupe of basic champion give iso and shards or not?
No. The Basic Hero has never given more than 1 Sig for a Champion, and that has not changed.
what about the featured champion? i think one of them used to give dupe before.
The Featured Champion will give a full Dupe, with ISO, Crystal Shards, Etc.
Does this include the 3 and 4 stars from the milestones? Cause we're not getting the iso from those dupes
I could not locate the clarification post. There is only sig stone increase for milestone champ in the featured arena and nothing else.
Ok it seems some aren’t seeing the bigger issue with this change. These arenas are for UNCOLLECTED and up. Meaning 4*s are pretty much useless to them. For most that is. Outside of putting 270 units there and the bc there nothing there really for em. We don’t want or need 4* nexus crystals. The whole point of arena is to push players o the next higher arena. You are doing it backwards….I’m an arena grinder. I’ll tell ya now. No way I going to do 8 rounds of 4s in arena. That’s 16 hours total of wait time… you increased the effort here way more then was needed
The effort seems to have increased slightly to gain those units. Let me put it in terms of numbers. I could get approximately 600k points when I use my R4 and r5 4 star champs in a single round. With the old arena, I could get all the milestones in 3 rounds which is 210 minutes(3.5 hrs), get 120(2 hrs) minutes of 2 star and 120(2 hrs) minutes of 3 star arena. That's approximately 7.5 hrs of grinding. By using only 4 stars in the new arena, I need to grind 8.5 hours. The problem is I cannot grind them simultaneously. I need to wait for 4 stars to refresh or use 3 stars which yield less points.
You may want read all of what I said….everyone here seems fixated just on the units. That’s really all ya get out of trials that and bc. Phc and 4*s for 98% of uc and higher are useless. Instead of pushing people to goto basic and feature for rewards kabam doing the opposite
Get rid of needing 4.4 million in summoner trials. You shouldn’t need to get more points in the summoner trials (where you use 4* and get 12k points) than in the 6* basic (where you use 5* and get 40k points).
Oh.. and with those lovely shiny R4s many of us will be getting in the next year, good luck with using your 5*s to grind in the basic 😂
All they had to do was drop the milestones a little bit, say 10.5m for basic, maybe raise the 5* points slightly in the basic.. featured could have stayed the same, lowered the champs milestones.
These arenas will need to be revamped within the next year, if not sooner
You’ve made same point I have said from get go. Featured didn’t need changed at all. Featured should take a bit of effort. Trials shouldn’t of been touched either. After all it’s trials ment to be for those who getting into arena or those who don’t have enough high ranked 5 or 6s. Issue has always been basic. No reason basic should of been exactly the same as featured. None at all. They should of just designed the 6* points after the Sunday arena. Still less then u normally get but still a bit
I quit the game before 4 months and was checking to see if they make it fun, but as usual they only do what they think its right without considering our time and effort. If its not fun just leave. My account was 1.8m and I quit
Since yesterday, non-critical hits seem to be happening more often (across arenas, AQ, and other content) with seemingly lesser damage (than earlier non-crits). And in the more difficult streaks, opponents are again holding on to their sp1 and sp2. Just keep a check guys, in case it's a "bug".
I like the scoring system in basic and featured arenas, It is now quick to get all the milestones. I hate the summoner trails arena, now I have to grind more time for the same number of units.
I have over 70 2* champs maxed out and over 60 3* champs maxed out. Earlier 2* scoring (after multiplier*3) with 70 plus champs suppose I do around 24 arena steak, the points I get 24*2000 (approx) = 48000. Now 2* scoring (after multiplier*3), the points I get 24*5500 (approx) = 1,32,000.
For reaching milestones after the 11th we need 3,00,000 points for each milestone so we need to do approximately 55 streak with 2 stars. Then we get 14 units. Earlier I used to get 7 units for every 30,000 points and I have to do only 30 streak for 60,000 points and get 14 units.
The most annoying part is earlier 2* matchup is maxed 2* but now I am getting r3 4 stars as matchup which is tripling up the time taken for each fight
So technically all my maxed out 2 stars are wasted, except for the arena boost crystal there is no benefit for all the 3 star grinders as well. Finally kabam ruined the fun of grinding for me when all my maxed-out champs are sitting there idle. I am forced to use my r3 4 stars for grinding
I don’t quite understand people complaining needing more effort to get 1-5% in 6 star basic arena, the cutoff score is around 9M in 6 star basic, which means around 95 rounds if you use your r4 and r5 5 stars, in the previous system, the cutoff is around 24M, using 6 star, you may need 120 rounds or so, so the effort is less. Only loss is you get less units from milestones, but that is the unit distribution between the 3 arenas, which is a different point
just let them join. if they can beat, they will try to. ım a tb btw and ı see no harm in this. why dont you want cavalier people(possibly uncollected but it is actually bit absurd and a good way to keep them from spending absolute ton of units) to have at least a try on this.
Because the real question is: do you want Thronebreakers to get Thronebreaker rewards, or Cavalier rewards? Because if Cavalier players are allowed to do it, the rewards will be scaled to be appropriate to Cavalier players, not Thronebreakers. We don't make content for Thronebreakers, design the rewards for Thronebreakers, then say hey, if Cavs can do it more power to them. The question of who's allowed to do it comes first, then the content and rewards comes second. If Uncollected players were allowed to do it, the rewards would be scaled to Uncollected progress.
I guess there are people who think this happens in reverse. First Kabam makes the content, then they decide what rewards would be appropriate for that level of difficulty, then they decide who's allowed to do it. That's completely false. In any discussion about rewards, the first question the game designers ask is "who are these rewards targeting?" not "how hard is the content?" Before you design the fights, before you design the rewards, *first* you decide on the target audience. Then everything is made appropriate to that group.
The reason why you don't see any harm in allowing Cavalier players to run the Thronebreaker objectives is because you think there's any chance at all Cavalier players would be allowed to get those rewards. They wouldn't. If Cavs were allowed to do it, the rewards would be scaled to them. If you want to take rewards away from Thronebreakers to allow Cavs to do the TB objectives, fair enough. Good luck explaining to them why their TB-caliber rewards were reduced to Cav-caliber rewards just because Cavalier players feel they deserve to do everything Thronebreaker players are allowed to do.
To quote @DNA3000 , this is exactly what's happened to the 6* basic arena after 6 stars had their points cut. A complete regression for endgame players as it was originally designed for them to chase 6 stars for the first time.
Then Cavalier level players complained and now players with big rosters like myself are doing more rounds for less rewards than before. I'm perfectly fine with better milestones for them but the point cutting completely goes against basic progression principles.
Actually, it was never intended for end game players to have two separate arenas to use their 6* advantage in at the expense of the players who originally had a place to use their 5* champions optimally in. Having two such arenas, while deleting the original 5* optimized arena (the old 4* featured arena) was an error. It was so obvious of an error it was acknowledged the arena launch was going to be reviewed and possibly updated almost immediately after it was launched.
It was not something the devs originally decided we should have, and then later changed their minds and decided we shouldn't have gotten. It was something they didn't fully appreciate the penalty associated with, and thus changed to better reflect the original intent. I understand the feeling that progress was lost, but this was progress that we were never supposed to have. It would be no different if the arenas originally launched with 6* champions accidentally set to 17,000,000 base points. Yes, it gives us a huge scoring advantage over players with small or no 6* roster, but correcting that would not be a regression of progress. It would be fixing a mistake. Changing the 6* basic arena from its original launch configuration to the current one was also fixing a mistake.
One more thing I should mention. The narrative seems to be that the devs were fine with the launch configuration and a bunch of whiny players messed it up for the end gamers. But that narrative is not really correct. The arena overhaul was a complex undertaking with a lot of moving parts, and there first iteration was the devs first, best effort attempt to implement a compromise between as many of the various factors situationally impacting players as possible. But it wasn't perfect, and the developers knew that given the complexity of the changes there was a chance they would have to make changes based on feedback and data. And the decisive complaint wasn't that 5* rosters were at a disadvantage in the new Basic, it was more that the arena optimized for 5* scoring was taken away with nothing to replace it. Basically, the 5* featured arena was promoted to the 6* featured arena, and the 4* featured arena was taken away completely and replaced with another 6* arena.
So now there were two arenas optimized for 6* scoring, and one optimized for 4* scoring, and none optimized for 5* scoring. When the current state of the game emphasizes 5* champions for the entire mid game. That was seen as highly problematic. It is true that a progression principle is that the higher rarity champs should have an advantage over the lower ones. But a stronger progression principle is that the rarities should form a ladder, with each rarity a step on that ladder. The game is moving towards a place where there's three main phases to the game. The early game where players work their way towards Uncollected status, the mid game where players move from Uncollected to Cavalier and towards Thronebreaker, and the end game where players are focusing on 6* champs (and whatever might come next). It makes sense that in an arena system with three arenas there should be one step on the ladder that optimizes scoring for 4* champs - the Trials - one arena that optimizes for 5* scoring - the Basic - and one arena that optimizes for 6* scoring - the Featured. Having two 6s and one 4 is not good for rarity progress. Having one 4, one 5, and one 6 is much more logical.
So then the question is: why not just remove 6* champs from the Basic entirely? Short answer: remove the 6* champs from the arena, and you remove the 6* prize from the arena, and that would be taking an opportunity to earn a good reward away from players.
I don’t quite understand people complaining needing more effort to get 1-5% in 6 star basic arena, the cutoff score is around 9M in 6 star basic, which means around 95 rounds if you use your r4 and r5 5 stars, in the previous system, the cutoff is around 24M, using 6 star, you may need 120 rounds or so, so the effort is less. Only loss is you get less units from milestones, but that is the unit distribution between the 3 arenas, which is a different point
I missed the top 5% even after hitting 9m+ in the basic.
And the effort isn't less since summoner trials used to take 60 rounds for 2.15m but now needs 120. I have a whale roster and doing more work for less rewards now. Very discouraging for players who grinded for years building their 6 star rosters.
On one hand I agreed with you that you can't hit top 5% with 9mm+ score in basic arena now, cause many players also think they can and thus many stop at around 10mm, turn out making a cutoff up-shift.
Whilst I disagree about the summoner trials. Under old 4* arena, I normally need to fight 120 rounds in order reach ~2.2mm score for a 4* champs. Now you can have 4mm point with similar rounds, their scoring system adjusted. (note: I didn't break any streak)
I don’t quite understand people complaining needing more effort to get 1-5% in 6 star basic arena, the cutoff score is around 9M in 6 star basic, which means around 95 rounds if you use your r4 and r5 5 stars, in the previous system, the cutoff is around 24M, using 6 star, you may need 120 rounds or so, so the effort is less. Only loss is you get less units from milestones, but that is the unit distribution between the 3 arenas, which is a different point
I missed the top 5% even after hitting 9m+ in the basic.
And the effort isn't less since summoner trials used to take 60 rounds for 2.15m but now needs 120. I have a whale roster and doing more work for less rewards now. Very discouraging for players who grinded for years building their 6 star rosters.
On one hand I agreed with you that you can't hit top 5% with 9mm+ score in basic arena now, cause many players also think they can and thus many stop at around 10mm, turn out making a cutoff up-shift.
Whilst I disagree about the summoner trials. Under old 4* arena, I normally need to fight 120 rounds in order reach ~2.2mm score for a 4* champs. Now you can have 4mm point with similar rounds, their scoring system adjusted. (note: I didn't break any streak)
You must have used 4* boosts. I ran only r5 4* unboosted and it takes 120 rounds.
No. I used boosts and shorten the rounds to 80 only. If you divided 4.4mm by 96, you got 45k. It is the normal score with r5 4*. Just depends on how many you have. I almost collected the entire champ roaster in 4* btw.
Comments
If its not fun just leave. My account was 1.8m and I quit
I hate the summoner trails arena, now I have to grind more time for the same number of units.
I have over 70 2* champs maxed out and over 60 3* champs maxed out.
Earlier 2* scoring (after multiplier*3) with 70 plus champs suppose I do around 24 arena steak, the points I get 24*2000 (approx) = 48000.
Now 2* scoring (after multiplier*3), the points I get 24*5500 (approx) = 1,32,000.
For reaching milestones after the 11th we need 3,00,000 points for each milestone so we need to do approximately 55 streak with 2 stars. Then we get 14 units.
Earlier I used to get 7 units for every 30,000 points and I have to do only 30 streak for 60,000 points and get 14 units.
The most annoying part is earlier 2* matchup is maxed 2* but now I am getting r3 4 stars as matchup which is tripling up the time taken for each fight
So technically all my maxed out 2 stars are wasted, except for the arena boost crystal there is no benefit for all the 3 star grinders as well.
Finally kabam ruined the fun of grinding for me when all my maxed-out champs are sitting there idle.
I am forced to use my r3 4 stars for grinding
It was not something the devs originally decided we should have, and then later changed their minds and decided we shouldn't have gotten. It was something they didn't fully appreciate the penalty associated with, and thus changed to better reflect the original intent. I understand the feeling that progress was lost, but this was progress that we were never supposed to have. It would be no different if the arenas originally launched with 6* champions accidentally set to 17,000,000 base points. Yes, it gives us a huge scoring advantage over players with small or no 6* roster, but correcting that would not be a regression of progress. It would be fixing a mistake. Changing the 6* basic arena from its original launch configuration to the current one was also fixing a mistake.
One more thing I should mention. The narrative seems to be that the devs were fine with the launch configuration and a bunch of whiny players messed it up for the end gamers. But that narrative is not really correct. The arena overhaul was a complex undertaking with a lot of moving parts, and there first iteration was the devs first, best effort attempt to implement a compromise between as many of the various factors situationally impacting players as possible. But it wasn't perfect, and the developers knew that given the complexity of the changes there was a chance they would have to make changes based on feedback and data. And the decisive complaint wasn't that 5* rosters were at a disadvantage in the new Basic, it was more that the arena optimized for 5* scoring was taken away with nothing to replace it. Basically, the 5* featured arena was promoted to the 6* featured arena, and the 4* featured arena was taken away completely and replaced with another 6* arena.
So now there were two arenas optimized for 6* scoring, and one optimized for 4* scoring, and none optimized for 5* scoring. When the current state of the game emphasizes 5* champions for the entire mid game. That was seen as highly problematic. It is true that a progression principle is that the higher rarity champs should have an advantage over the lower ones. But a stronger progression principle is that the rarities should form a ladder, with each rarity a step on that ladder. The game is moving towards a place where there's three main phases to the game. The early game where players work their way towards Uncollected status, the mid game where players move from Uncollected to Cavalier and towards Thronebreaker, and the end game where players are focusing on 6* champs (and whatever might come next). It makes sense that in an arena system with three arenas there should be one step on the ladder that optimizes scoring for 4* champs - the Trials - one arena that optimizes for 5* scoring - the Basic - and one arena that optimizes for 6* scoring - the Featured. Having two 6s and one 4 is not good for rarity progress. Having one 4, one 5, and one 6 is much more logical.
So then the question is: why not just remove 6* champs from the Basic entirely? Short answer: remove the 6* champs from the arena, and you remove the 6* prize from the arena, and that would be taking an opportunity to earn a good reward away from players.
Whilst I disagree about the summoner trials. Under old 4* arena, I normally need to fight 120 rounds in order reach ~2.2mm score for a 4* champs. Now you can have 4mm point with similar rounds, their scoring system adjusted. (note: I didn't break any streak)
If you divided 4.4mm by 96, you got 45k. It is the normal score with r5 4*. Just depends on how many you have. I almost collected the entire champ roaster in 4* btw.