Removal of Revive Farming and the Apothecary Discussion

Jefechuta · March 2023

nOux said:

Jefechuta said:

nOux said:

Jefechuta said:

nOux said:

Jefechuta said:

BigPoppaCBONE said:

Jefechuta said:
I dont know if anyone already stated this but:

I fairly think this is one of the best decissions they could make, content is done too easily by people that are not even skilled enough to do it just spamming revives, so this encourages people to try to learn how to really play the game properly, not only this but makes the challenging things challenging, when people is able to do this content the first day it goes out just spamming 60 revives that means that something must be done, If anyone thinks that 2 revives PER DAY is not enough, that only shows how bad people became. Getting revives became way easier than before, so I think is fair to nerf the amount we can get by farming them.

The main problem I see here, is that they done this in the worst moment possible, since people need more revives because everything in the game is bugged, so they should have waited a little bit more to make this changes until they fixed at least half of the bugs they have currently in game.

And to be fair with Kabam, this is not a charity, this is a company, we already get almost everything free, I dont think its that bad to have to play more Arenas to get more revives for the hard content, or spending to get them.

I think its just a bad timing, but a really good decission, I expect a lot of disagrees but sorry fams, I dont think this is about opinions, since I repeat, you dont need more than 2 revives a day, or you shouldnt need them, If you need them then that means you are not playing properly, so you should try to change it, you dont wanna try to improve your skills? Then I think it is fair to pay for the revives then, and I say this being a F2P player.

Farming disagrees? How will that help your progression?
You should progress playing better, making your roster bigger, and getting resources playing if you dont want to spend money, but being able to farm the amount of revives you want because the challenges are too challenging for you is just nonsense.

If im not able to do X content, I shouldnt just spam revives, I should see why and fix it, If its because im not good enough, I improve my skills, if its because I dont have certain champions, I try to farm shards to look for them or grind arena to get those.

And as I said, I dont think they should make this change NOW, since the game is completely bugged, but it is not a bad change itself.
Hey buddy, maybe stop talking nonsense about getting better when content like Carina with 4* Starlord exists? Hows that “get better” works out for you in that content?
Yeah people only spends revives on Carina's Challenges, and spend only the necessary ones right?

Dude, people farm hundreds of revives just to dont care about playing worse, the thing on Carina's Challenge is to do it with the less amount of revives trying to play the best possible.

And still, I dont know how the hell people are this annoyed when Kabam still gives you AT LEAST, 2 revives a day, fam, most of the games give much less resources of this kind and try to make you pay most of the times for them.

I think Kabam made people to get used to easy things, and now that they say "Hey, we were too generous, so we are going to stop" people gets mad, feels like kids when they dont get the PS5 for Xmas and they get clothes instead.

We are still getting revives for free, if you need more than 2 per day to clear Carina's Challenges, then you shouldnt be trying Carina's Challenges just yet, as easy as that.
Bro i dont want to insult you, but u talking about getting better at the game or talking about EoP or Carinas etc. Have u done at least one of the everest content in the game that you are preaching about getting better to other players? “ 2 revives a day is enough for those kind of contents “
The irony is pretty hilarious when i already know the answer…
Dude, Im just gonna let this here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cfGwoDfQmU

23 Revives needed

"Yeah people need a lot of revives for do the content! Even the best ones!"

You get 28 for sure in 2 weeks, its that not enough? It is, If you need more then you have Daily Crystals and you can farm units on arenas to buy them, if you dont wanna farm then spend money.

This is a gaming company, not a gaming charity.
My point is you are nowhere close of preaching to other players how they need to get better or even talk about everest content. I have done Carina in first week that came out by spending countless hours of grinding revives. Now with this new change all players who haven’t done it before nerf it will take them at least 5-6 months of grinding revives. This only affects players who are grinding and not whaling, whales will complete after nerf in first week any other upcoming everest content without no issues. I dont think i have to explain it further. So how does this good for the game and not good for Kabam in milking whales?

Now fun video u posted, wanna jump in EoP and give us your own fight video? We gonna learn how we need to get better at the game all together, with some taste of irony.

Fam, first of all, beucase it is just ridiculous and you are just showing me the lack of comprehension you have about this at least, you dont have to be Mr. Olympia to say that you have to be really strong to do bench press with 200kg, it is a statement that you can do without being able to do it, thats the first point.

Second point, are you in the top best Alliances? Almost all of yours BG champs are R4s? Do you have everything completed at 100%? You did every Carina's Challenge? Then you should be doing each new Everest content that gets released, because the Everest content, as its own name indicates, its the hardest content that the best players should be able to do, if you are not one of them, obviously you will have to grind a lot more to do the same content that the best players are doing, because that means that you are not really prepared to do it, and thats it, that not an opinion, thats what it is.

In my example, my account is pretty decent, 2015 account at Paragon with most of the content done WITHOUT spending nor farming revives, except some content that is quite hard to do, mainly if you dont have the best champions to do it, so therefore you have to use revives, and what I did? I waited to either have enough revives or be able to do it without them or at least with only a tiny amount, and sadly I dont have Hercules, so Im waiting to get him to do EoP, because Im not going to use 100 revives if I can use 20, if you want to do it that way, thats because you want to do content you are not prepared for, so you will need more resources, Im not in need of anything right now so I dont have the urge to do EoP, and I shouldnt be in urge since its the last content you should do.

Probably when Kabam fixes the bugs you will be able to do EoP on 15 revives aprox, maybe 20. If you want to do it with 5 times that amount it is because you want to do it that way.

You want to do Everest content with an account that has 5 R4s- 10 R4s? Sorry, you are not prepared, so you will have to use more resources than players that are prepared.

You want to do 2 Carinas Objectives in one run? Obviously you are going to need a lot more revives because your team is not efficient enough, and thats not because you dont have enough revive farming, thats because you want to do it that way.

And Im not gonna reply more to you because this is not about opinions.

This is a GOOD change in the WORST moment. My advice to Kabam is to wait for the bugs to be fixed so players dont use more revives than they should.

DanielRand · March 2023

This will be discounted by all the defenders but the timing of this announcement is obvious. Weeks of complaints about Bgs and input issues and bugs and disconnects and every other issue. Instead Kabam makes everyone focus on this new anti player move. When they reverse course or at least adjust to something less punitive they put all those other complaints to bed at the same time. Classic marketing redirection.

Dailey · March 2023

Nah nah nah naaaaaaaaa nah hey hey hey goooodbye ! Nah nah nah naaaaaaa nah hey hey hey gooooodbye !. Oooooh I think people will quit in droves. It was fun while it lasted.

DNA3000 · March 2023

Mackey said:

DNA3000 said:

FiiNCH said:

DNA3000 said:

FiiNCH said:

DNA3000 said:

37v417 said:
What a disgusting money grab. Shame on you, you vultures.
How much are you planning on increasing your spending after this change? Because I wasn't planning on spending more because of this change. How exactly is this going to make money? Who's going to be spending more?
People trying to complete content with no access to farming revives perhaps..
Just "people?" Sure, but which people who don't have access to farming revives? Everyone keeps saying this is a cash grab. But how many of them are actually planning on spending cash because of this cash grab?

It can't be a cash grab if no one actually spends on it. And while I'm sure someone somewhere will spend something, it won't be an effective cash grab unless a large number of players spend.

I don't think this has anything to do with monetization, because there is simply not enough money on the table. The problem is a much more direct problem with top tier content balancing.

Content in this game is balanced in large part on a curve. Which is to say, the more players who complete it, the easier it is. The fewer players that complete it, or the more players that attempt it and fail, the harder it is. That's the definition of content difficulty. It isn't hard because it looks hard on paper. Its hard if we can't do it.

If we all go into EoP with a hundred revives, we're going to tear through it like it is tissue paper. This shows up in the game data as a massive imbalance between the rewards and the measured difficulty of the content. This means one of two things: EoP-like content must now have much lower rewards, or EoP-like content must be diesigned vastly harder until the content is measured to be difficult enough to be appropriate.

The devs can't just "let us use the revives" because they can't just make the content and then let us do whatever we want to it. That's not how games like this are maintained. If we use tons of consumables to beat the content, the content will have to adjust to that.

So what's it going to be? Eventually have all end game content *only* doable with hundreds of revives, and if you don't farm hundreds of consumables it will just be impossible for you? Or have end game content have trivial rewards appropriate to the fact that pretty much everyone sails through it? Or reduce the flow of otherwise practically unlimited consumables and allow content to be balanced around players having a more manageable amount of consumables to throw at the content.

This problem is independent of monetization and has nothing to do with it. Whether Kabam makes more, less, or the same amount of money, they still have to solve this problem. Exponentially increase the difficulty, logarithmically lower the rewards, or reduce unlimited consumable farming. You have to pick one. And as someone who used to farm potions and revives enough to actually know the statistical average return of those maps accurately, of those three options I dislike the third one the least.

I won't like seeing my revive farms disappear. But I think I would like seeing all future end game content be designed in such a way that neutralizes that advantage even less. Once it gets hard enough that even the top tier players are going to need hundreds of revives to complete it, what are players like me supposed to do? We'd be locked out completely. But that's where this ultimately goes, if it is left unchecked.
Sorry @DNA3000 - I don’t agree with your logic here.

As someone said earlier, if Kabam want us to (in their words) ‘stop spamming revives’, then why don’t they put an item limit on quests. They’ve removed the ftp farming option but kept the pay to win option. So it appears they don’t want us to stop spamming, they just want us to pay for it.
They could just ban items altogether from top tier content. Not only would this eliminate the farming problem, but it would literally dunk on the players claiming that this was a "cash grab."

That's what I would do. Kabam is just reducing farming rather than eliminating it and is continuing to allow players to use items in top tier content because they have more mercy than I do.

As to "keeping the pay to win option" yeah, they still allow people to actually buy things and use things. Because if they don't, the game will die. That's true everywhere. We have random crystals that the whales can just buy hundreds of to guarantee getting what they want. We have inventory limits that the whales can bypass by simply buying unlimited amounts of what they need. We have reward tiers that the whales can just buy their way to the top of. We have constraints on how much rewards flow into the game that the spenders can work around.

Spenders can do more than non-spenders can do, because that's how we encourage them to spend. To say that a game design decision is not valid because spending allows those decisions to be mitigated is simply not understanding how games like this work. *Every* decision can have its validity questioned like this. But game designers still have to design games with design rules nonetheless. They still have to balance their game economies nonetheless. They still have to implement controls and limits nonetheless.
So why are they using the "spamming of revives" as an excuse then? Because we can still do that by purchasing them. They haven't explicitly said "we want you to buy them" but they're quite clearly hoping that is what the outcome will achieve

Are you saying that as long as players can buy things, Kabam shouldn't limit how much players can farm the same thing? Or are you saying that limits are only there to make money?

I spent most of my online gaming life playing subscription games, not microtransaction supported F2P games. These types of balancing decisions were made in those games in precisely the same way targeting precisely the same resources for precisely the same stated reasons. Those game companies could not *possibly* be doing it to make money, because there was no money to be made.

So please explain why you believe every such company doing exactly the same thing Kabam is doing now could be doing it for non-monetization reasons, but you're absolutely certain it is not possible Kabam is doing it for exactly the same non-monetization reasons. You seem to be implying it is obvious Kabam is doing this hoping players will spend more. Why do game companies do the exact same thing in situations where it is impossible for players to spend more? Why do those reasons not work here?

I get that this is one of those emotionally charged situations where people are just going to lash out. When a post that simply points out a correction in the announcement gets six disagrees, I know to completely ignore all the rest of them. But that doesn't change the facts, and that doesn't change the situation, and that doesn't change how the game is going to operate. If the only thing people can think to do is shoot the messenger, that's fine. I'm bulletproof (I don't know about Jax, but I'm old and I come from USENET whose flame wars make this look like a girl scout camp fire). I've been saying for years that farming these revives was not an exploit, but it was also not intentional and at some point in the future that situation could be changed. Anyone who knows anything about game management would have come to the same conclusion. Not liking the situation doesn't change the situation.

I know people who will be negatively affected by the change. *I* will be negatively affected by the change. But I can't honestly say it was unexpected or that it isn't an obviously predictable change. We can try to soften the blow to some extent with inventory changes or availability changes up to a point, but thinking this is some necessary thing players should be able to count on indefinitely is a complete break from reality, as is trying to ascribe conspiratorial motives to the change in an effort to disparage it. If you don't like it, it should be enough that you say you don't like it. The moment someone has to invent a fictional narrative to support their criticism, that criticism ceases to be valid.

DanielRand · March 2023

Just realized another major positive from this decision. When 80% of the paragons quit it will seem like matchmaking isn’t quite as bad as it was

DNA3000 · March 2023

FiiNCH said:

DNA3000 said:

FiiNCH said:

DNA3000 said:

FiiNCH said:

DNA3000 said:

37v417 said:
What a disgusting money grab. Shame on you, you vultures.
How much are you planning on increasing your spending after this change? Because I wasn't planning on spending more because of this change. How exactly is this going to make money? Who's going to be spending more?
People trying to complete content with no access to farming revives perhaps..
Just "people?" Sure, but which people who don't have access to farming revives? Everyone keeps saying this is a cash grab. But how many of them are actually planning on spending cash because of this cash grab?

It can't be a cash grab if no one actually spends on it. And while I'm sure someone somewhere will spend something, it won't be an effective cash grab unless a large number of players spend.

I don't think this has anything to do with monetization, because there is simply not enough money on the table. The problem is a much more direct problem with top tier content balancing.

Content in this game is balanced in large part on a curve. Which is to say, the more players who complete it, the easier it is. The fewer players that complete it, or the more players that attempt it and fail, the harder it is. That's the definition of content difficulty. It isn't hard because it looks hard on paper. Its hard if we can't do it.

If we all go into EoP with a hundred revives, we're going to tear through it like it is tissue paper. This shows up in the game data as a massive imbalance between the rewards and the measured difficulty of the content. This means one of two things: EoP-like content must now have much lower rewards, or EoP-like content must be diesigned vastly harder until the content is measured to be difficult enough to be appropriate.

The devs can't just "let us use the revives" because they can't just make the content and then let us do whatever we want to it. That's not how games like this are maintained. If we use tons of consumables to beat the content, the content will have to adjust to that.

So what's it going to be? Eventually have all end game content *only* doable with hundreds of revives, and if you don't farm hundreds of consumables it will just be impossible for you? Or have end game content have trivial rewards appropriate to the fact that pretty much everyone sails through it? Or reduce the flow of otherwise practically unlimited consumables and allow content to be balanced around players having a more manageable amount of consumables to throw at the content.

This problem is independent of monetization and has nothing to do with it. Whether Kabam makes more, less, or the same amount of money, they still have to solve this problem. Exponentially increase the difficulty, logarithmically lower the rewards, or reduce unlimited consumable farming. You have to pick one. And as someone who used to farm potions and revives enough to actually know the statistical average return of those maps accurately, of those three options I dislike the third one the least.

I won't like seeing my revive farms disappear. But I think I would like seeing all future end game content be designed in such a way that neutralizes that advantage even less. Once it gets hard enough that even the top tier players are going to need hundreds of revives to complete it, what are players like me supposed to do? We'd be locked out completely. But that's where this ultimately goes, if it is left unchecked.
Sorry @DNA3000 - I don’t agree with your logic here.

As someone said earlier, if Kabam want us to (in their words) ‘stop spamming revives’, then why don’t they put an item limit on quests. They’ve removed the ftp farming option but kept the pay to win option. So it appears they don’t want us to stop spamming, they just want us to pay for it.
They could just ban items altogether from top tier content. Not only would this eliminate the farming problem, but it would literally dunk on the players claiming that this was a "cash grab."

That's what I would do. Kabam is just reducing farming rather than eliminating it and is continuing to allow players to use items in top tier content because they have more mercy than I do.

As to "keeping the pay to win option" yeah, they still allow people to actually buy things and use things. Because if they don't, the game will die. That's true everywhere. We have random crystals that the whales can just buy hundreds of to guarantee getting what they want. We have inventory limits that the whales can bypass by simply buying unlimited amounts of what they need. We have reward tiers that the whales can just buy their way to the top of. We have constraints on how much rewards flow into the game that the spenders can work around.

Spenders can do more than non-spenders can do, because that's how we encourage them to spend. To say that a game design decision is not valid because spending allows those decisions to be mitigated is simply not understanding how games like this work. *Every* decision can have its validity questioned like this. But game designers still have to design games with design rules nonetheless. They still have to balance their game economies nonetheless. They still have to implement controls and limits nonetheless.
Spending should be optional.

With these changes spending will be a requirement to complete content like abyss or EOP.

I actually haven't done the permanent EoP paths yet, so I will take that as an interesting challenge.

Sw0rdMaster · March 2023

This might explain the changes.

Unknown · March 2023

This content has been removed.

Draconic_12 · March 2023

DanielRand said:
Just realized another major positive from this decision. When 80% of the paragons quit it will seem like matchmaking isn’t quite as bad as it was

It won’t be just the paragons who quit. It will be a lot of the player base who rely on potion farming as a part of help, to get through content

ChiliDog · March 2023

Jumpin the shark

AustinU823 · March 2023

DNA3000 said:
I actually haven't done the permanent EoP paths yet, so I will take that as an interesting challenge.

I’m genuinely curious how many units you or anyone would be required to spend to get through that going forward. Lagacy spent 2K units even in addition to mass revive farming and he’s one of the best players in the game.

DNA3000 · March 2023

thepiggy said:

This reads like a movie company from the mid 2000's claiming that internet pirates are costing them 10 trillion dollars a day for downloading their crummy straight-to-DVD movie.

Farmed revives are not lost revenue, they are the cost of doing business and letting players clear absurd content so that they can save their resources on actual deals..

Kabam did not claim that this is lost revenue. Players are claiming that. Kabam actually explicitly stated in that announcement that the problem is that those farmed resources trivialize intentionally difficult content. Because of this, the economic consequence would have to be to reduce the rewards from such content. Nowhere does Kabam mention revenue as an issue, nor imply that revenue was an issue. It isn't about the cost of those revives at all. It is about what they do to content when they can be used in an essentially unlimited manner.

Hercules is the most obvious example, but if you have unlimited resources you can face roll your way though almost any content with any champ. It would just take more with a different champ, but that doesn't matter if you literally have an unlimited supply.

If literally everyone who was farming revives started spending cash to buy them and do exactly the same thing, that would still be a problem with content design. That's not going to happen, because less than 5% of mobile game players spend money on microtransactions. Some small number will spend, and the fact that some small number of players spend to get more stuff than everyone else is factored into the design of the game, as this is a necessary prerequisite for having a game at all.

Stellar · March 2023

SpiceyMiikey said:

Nocko said:

SpiceyMiikey said:
Just want to make sure, if i buy two odins i’ll get roughly 140 revives. Is it ok if i just spam them to clear carina?
I think its pretty clear that Kabam has absolutely no problem what so ever with this.
Again, its only free revives that are a problem

It's ok. Spenders will spend, they'll buy the odins, clear the content in 1 day, content creators will put the videos up and and the very top of the game will keep it going, they're the real whales and spenders anyways.
The game will continue and new Everest content will be "trivialised" as much as ever by anyone willing to spend.

Mild spenders and FTP players will simply be locked out of top content and high end rewards unless they spend or are in the very top echelon of skilled players. I dont have the time, or frankly the skill to ever skilled enough to clear content without farming revives and i've got no interest in upping my spending. And so i dont feel im left with any other option but to say my summoner journey is over.
Yes but Kabam strictly said they don’t want summoners to SPAM revives. Literally i’ll spam with my purchased units from Odin. It’s the same. I’m afraid i’m violating their ToS and get ban for that

Sometimes the AI is so means you end up died just because it didn't want to launch its sp despite all the baits you give it.
Or your parry didn't work and you end up with 30 000 HP of damage (hey nearly 100 lvl 1 potions by the way)
Or the AI intercept you with its sp right in the middle of you heavy...
Or the game suddenly crash and you loose half your life when reconnecting.

So yes, sometimes we have to spam revives because of the bugs/AI pb.

G_S_H · March 2023

Sw0rdMaster said:
This might explain the changes.

Yes this is what I posted above in a previous comment, they lost $700 million and are forcing Kabam to fill in the gap

Ironman3000 · March 2023

Love that the team has decided that 1 l1 revive a day is sufficient. Thanks so much, Kabam!!!!

Bugmat78 · March 2023

I personally prefer them to nerf the rewards vs nerfing the ability to farm and do the content w/o emptying my wallet. I'd rather take twice as long to get my next 6r5 over spending twice as much.

OhDear2015 · March 2023

Kadamn -> Don’t even think about coming up with a ‘’’’comprimise’’’’ buff on your new fancy cashgrab-method to silence the community as your predictive 2nd step!
Don’t dare to insult our intelligence!

kurogami24 · March 2023

Damn kabam

Unknown · March 2023

This content has been removed.

kurogami24 · March 2023

Kabam thought that we can do 3 star loki carina without spending revives and not a small amount hahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahshshsjahshahahshahshsh

Unknown · March 2023

This content has been removed.

DNA3000 · March 2023

AustinU823 said:

DNA3000 said:
I actually haven't done the permanent EoP paths yet, so I will take that as an interesting challenge.
I’m genuinely curious how many units you or anyone would be required to spend to get through that going forward. Lagacy spent 2K units even in addition to mass revive farming and he’s one of the best players in the game.

I'm not anywhere in Lagacy's class, so I'm pretty sure it is going to be a whole lot more than 2k. I was going to farm it out, just like everyone else, but I'm probably not going to make a mad dash for it while the farms are still here. That's not how I roll with content in general.

Lestat2499 · March 2023

Over 100 to 1 on the dislikes vs likes and that’s just people that come to forums.

kurogami24 · March 2023

Fredhorst23 said:
Am I the only person who hoards free crystals for this exact reason?
And as much as it's a crummy move, it isn't that big of a deal. You really shouldn't be farming hundreds of revives right? Isn't that not playing the game?
Honestly I feel bad for the mods that had to make the announcement, and really any other subordinate to whoever made this call. They all gotta be thinking the same thing about the community reaction.

This must be kabam spy hahaah

Stellar · March 2023

kurogami24 said:
Kabam thought that we can do 3 star loki carina without spending revives and not a small amount hahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahshshsjahshahahshahshsh

well in fact it is possible...
but Labyrinth with 4 star without tons of revives ???
Defeating the Collector with those two stupid and useless 3 stars cyclops without tons of revives ? (note : Cyclops is still useless whatever the number of stars he can have )

Lestat2499 · March 2023

Fredhorst23 said:
Am I the only person who hoards free crystals for this exact reason?
And as much as it's a crummy move, it isn't that big of a deal. You really shouldn't be farming hundreds of revives right? Isn't that not playing the game?
Honestly I feel bad for the mods that had to make the announcement, and really any other subordinate to whoever made this call. They all gotta be thinking the same thing about the community reaction.

And what are your odds of actually getting a revive vs gold or small health pot??? It’s pitiful

Zuko_ILC · March 2023

SpiceyMiikey said:

Nocko said:

SpiceyMiikey said:
Just want to make sure, if i buy two odins i’ll get roughly 140 revives. Is it ok if i just spam them to clear carina?
I think its pretty clear that Kabam has absolutely no problem what so ever with this.
Again, its only free revives that are a problem

It's ok. Spenders will spend, they'll buy the odins, clear the content in 1 day, content creators will put the videos up and and the very top of the game will keep it going, they're the real whales and spenders anyways.
The game will continue and new Everest content will be "trivialised" as much as ever by anyone willing to spend.

Mild spenders and FTP players will simply be locked out of top content and high end rewards unless they spend or are in the very top echelon of skilled players. I dont have the time, or frankly the skill to ever skilled enough to clear content without farming revives and i've got no interest in upping my spending. And so i dont feel im left with any other option but to say my summoner journey is over.
Yes but Kabam strictly said they don’t want summoners to SPAM revives. Literally i’ll spam with my purchased units from Odin. It’s the same. I’m afraid i’m violating their ToS and get ban for that

They don't want you to spam featured crystals either.

Unknown · March 2023

This content has been removed.

Zuko_ILC · March 2023

DNA3000 said:

AustinU823 said:

DNA3000 said:
I actually haven't done the permanent EoP paths yet, so I will take that as an interesting challenge.
I’m genuinely curious how many units you or anyone would be required to spend to get through that going forward. Lagacy spent 2K units even in addition to mass revive farming and he’s one of the best players in the game.
I'm not anywhere in Lagacy's class, so I'm pretty sure it is going to be a whole lot more than 2k. I was going to farm it out, just like everyone else, but I'm probably not going to make a mad dash for it while the farms are still here. That's not how I roll with content in general.

So you don't play in high tier alliance and haven't completed difficult content?

GinjabredMonsta · March 2023

BigPoppaCBONE said:
This thread has shown me that a lot of "I, for one, welcome this long overdue enforcement of karmic justice" people know players that somehow no skill slopped their way through EOP, Gauntlet, Abyss, etc. by drowning the content in infinite revives that they got for nothing even though you would still need to use a ton of energy items to farm any significant amount of revives in a short time, but those lames also basically cheated by abusing the Humanoid Hack Hercules, again with no skill.

I wonder if they all know the same no skill dudes?

What?

Removal of Revive Farming and the Apothecary Discussion

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