Lagacy's challenge aimed at 50ish % of the players The others more like 1-5ish %... Sorry but I dont buy that this was strictly made with parameters of being challenging... More within the parameters of making 1 piece of Desthless KG achievable and the rest a revive fiesta...
My opinion after seeing several proplayers do the challenges (excluding the creators of these), considering the current state of the game in terms of ascension and healing resources; and try them on my own with 4.8M and a wide list of champions in R5 and R4
Lagacy's challenge: Requires "a" specific champion who, being 5*, does not need many resources to have it at its maximum, including powders. It tests our ability and if we make a mistake we pay dearly in life matters. We face 12 fights of medium/low difficulty with 2 of the most fun bosses of the game "Kang" of high difficulty. In my point of view, perhaps it deserved a third mission to meet my expectation of difficulty of Carina's Challenges
The Fintech Challenge: Requires "3" specific champions, where you must have a minimum of R4 to reduce how long the fights can be. In Mojo, it is expensive in terms of resources, and on top of that you have to deal with 8 fights of high or extremely high difficulty. In the Tigra – JP case; also expensive; It is a longer route, 16 champions of high or extremely high difficulty, Tigra and his damage make the fights somewhat less frustrating except for the forced fights that are done with JP. All this apart from the fact that they are not exactly fun fights where even very skilled players die very easily, perhaps not only because of their mistakes in seeking an interception or risking a little to speed up the fight but also because the AI does not cooperate, such as , Modok, Penny and the most seen case warlock that is capable of killing you without touching you. In my point of view the mojo part would have been perfect if we could skip the warlock or modak, or at least one of both; and on the side of Tigra - JP, it becomes really extensive to the point that I did not want to complete it and I left it lying around in Dragonman even having Tigra in r4 x200 and JP of 6*: Besides, I really like playing with these 3 characters and I'm very good with them, I spent several resurrectors and many orbs.
The Karatemike challenge requires "6" specific champions, and with the exception of Zemo and Ironman, almost no one has them beyond R1, promoting them is a very large expense, with simple gameplay in the GMG mission where it is known for having highly combative fights. varied and very long that make them tedious and not very pleasant, from high to extremely high difficulty. In my opinion, this became much more frustrating to the point that despite seeing its creator pass it with relative ease, I accept that I am not the top legendary Zemo user like him to do it 100% having the zemo R5 myself, and On the Avengers side, analyzing the mission, it is well thought out so that these characters can do it, but it is excessively expensive, very expensive, and ultimately not fun to do it completely. Yes, I would like to use these Avengers against Thanos, but it is excessive. having to do the entire mission for this objective, perhaps 1 was enough to meet the expectation or at most 2 paths.
- farming wasn't nerfed - WoW didn't cost 10 energy - rewards were buffed to give an extra 2 titan crystals, some meaningful catalysts (4x t6c, 8 t3a, 8t6b), and 1.5 t4a
other than the spidey challenege, it's not worth the effort.
Honestly speaking, it feels to me as though the problem lies in “investment versus outcome”. We see a lot of criticism regarding Fintech’s challenges & Mike’s challenges but in regards to Lagacy’s challenges, it is little to nonexistent. Now, in regards to Lagacy’s challenge, you should preferably have a r5 Stark Spidey (Ascended or not). The investment of the resources needed to accomplish this for the targeted demographic of endgame players is very easily met. The content itself still takes skill, but the “investment vs outcome” here is overall going to be more positive & therefore more profound to the player than completing Mike’s or Fintech’s. Now, as I say this I should interfere what I mean by this. Mikes challenges requires you to have a beefy Baron Zemo & 5 separate avengers champions, those being Antman, Hawkeye, Black Widow, Thor, & Iron man. Taking this into account let’s say we were to r4 all of them:
- 18 t6b - 18 t3a - 12 T5CC - 30 T5 Basics
This is already pretty steep, not counting the gold requirements & prior rank materials. Most players will not being using any of these characters after this challenge aswell. Now let’s consider needing black widow at sig 200 for her AAR in the Grandmasters Gauntlet. That adds 1 to 199 6* signature stones needed to make a effective counter to some of the fights within GG. Now, speaking as a endgame player myself, the resources mentioned above are heavy, now you don’t have to do this content with all r4s, you could do it with all r3s. Yet it will be much more steep with cost & with the lack of revive farming available to balance this cost, the “investment vs outcome” comes into view yet again. Most endgame players reaction to this content that was designed around them is leaning on the “rather not worth it” line. As they weigh the scale of what has to be saved to accomplish these challenges overall.
I think the challenges were designed with good faith in mind, & the creativity behind them is great too since it reflects the content creators favorite champs. Yet I believe it misses the mark in the rewarding outcome regard. I think the targeted players in this regard are too small of a percent of the community to satisfy the majority of endgame players at large.
Overall, these are my thoughts on it, it’s getting late on my end as I type this. Might add more another day, might not. No hate to the creators, & here’s to a good rest of the year 💕
I read through the whole thread and i feel like i have to say a couple things.
First off i made sure every single fight in the Tigra/JP challenge would be soloable with the right strategy, mastery set up and boosts so calling it a cash grab or unit sink without even stopping to think how you should go about taking each fight is a bit unfair. I do not think doing the challenge itemless is possible due to some guaranteed damage you’ll take in a few fights but having to use potions here and there can hardly be considered a problem.
Now to respond to the comments about the difficulty level; i can’t speak for Lagacy or Karatemike but the difficulty of the challenges i created was 100% intentional and i was well aware the community would not react too kindly to it right off the bat. That said i do not regret the decision and i wouldn’t change it even now after all the comments i have received. The word ”challenge” has gone stale around the very top of the playerbase so i can only hope these will at least remind everyone what that word once meant.
As for how many revives it cost me on the submission runs? Less than your average players Necropolis completion path
I appreciate the effort you put into this, but I would also say the word "challenge" is subjective. What one person considers challenging isn't necessarily the same as what another Player considers challenging. It's a difficult balance to make something a goal that isn't so easily attainable, and only design it for those who are so skilled they're completely bored with the game. The danger in that is most Players will never be at that level of skill, even when they grow into all the content available. Just something to suggest as an outside perspective. The harder you make it, the less inviting it becomes for people to make an effort.
it begs the question ... why "end game" content is so streamlined to cater to the 1% of gamers. Necropolis .. although difficult ... allowed everyone in despite level of skill .. the fights were not cash grabs and rewarded skill vs throwing something that 100% will require Unit Man from even the most skilled.
I just don't get it. There are ways to create difficulty and make it fun .. it's been done. And you'd think the constant community feedback and uproar would be useful for future content but nope. We keep hitting the wall.
Not all end game content targets the same players. It has been a long time since we have created something that will truly challenge our best players in an aspirational way. Necropolis was done itemless within a few days, and many thousands of players have already explored it. I personally am not a Master tier AW players and I was able to explore it without spending a single Unit. And don't get me wrong, it's an awesome piece of content, and I love it, but it's not something that created any sort of long-term challenge for our best players.
A few months ago I challenged one of our content creators to complete Necropolis using only ducks, a challenge for literally a single person. We are allowed to create content that challenges our best players. We know these challenges do that, and it's why the rewards are structured as they are. The only reward that can be considered remotely mandatory is the Deathless King Groot piece, and it should be easier to access than a number of other Deathless pieces that have been distributed. Everything else is there for players who want to take on the challenge. Those that don't want the challenge can safely skip it.
Personally, I'm very happy there is something in the game for me to work towards like this. I already have a R5 Zemo so I will be working on that challenge and the Kangs ASAP. The other three, I'm going to work towards. Probably will wait to pull a 7* Jabari and dupe my 7* Mojo. Once that happens I will take my time and spend a couple weeks preparing the consumables to give it a go. And there is nothing wrong with it taking time. I know it will be waiting for me when I'm ready.
The number of people who are capable of completing Necro without Items or a single Unit spent is quite low, actually. I agree that there's nothing wrong with designing content for the small few. The problem is when you release it in tandem with Pieces for Deathless Champs, which are a better part of 2 year process, then a good number of Players aren't going to consider it as a top-alone release. They're going to see it as targeted at them because they're also trying to assimilate the Champs.
I think there continues to be this false narrative that any of this content is designed to be difficult or a skill check. How challenging was it for ol' boy to complete necroplis using over 1400 revives? If kabaam wanted something to be truly difficult it would be "do x objective without using an item". Of course this will never happen. Actually it did at least once in a side quest where the objective was something like 'defeat the boss on your first try'. It was changed the first week. That would be a legit challenge. I think players would complain about that even more though.
As it stands it is at best, the more skill the less revive/unit/money you need. The two need to equal a certain amount. So if completing all 6 takes 100 widgets. You could easily do it with 1 skill widget and 99 unit widgets.
I also will mention that if all the people who like to bash prof Hoff every time he is brought up, could have an option to remove fintechs and replace them with a prof Hoff design, the majority would.
It's sad to see Kabam employees sticking fingers into their ears with these incredibly defensive responses. It's evident from each of Miike, Crashed, and Jax's comments that they aren't interested in feedback from players about these challenges. I was going to come and offer some thoughts on why, as one of those players (arguably) that these challenges were designed for, these challenges miss the mark. But I'm not going to waste time giving constructive criticism to a willfully deaf audience. So good luck I guess, hope you guys are happy with how this all turns out.
This simply isn't true. If I didn't care about player feedback I wouldn't be reading through 200+ post threads at 10pm. I'm not being defensive, I'm simply stating how we see these challenges and their place in the game.
We take feedback seriously and actually earlier today changed the design for an upcoming piece of content based on this feedback. However we aren't just going to acquiesce to everything that players tell us they want, because quite frankly this game wouldn't still exist if we did that. Our job is to find the right balance for the long-term health of the game, and I promise you that is what we all are trying to do.
It's sad to see Kabam employees sticking fingers into their ears with these incredibly defensive responses. It's evident from each of Miike, Crashed, and Jax's comments that they aren't interested in feedback from players about these challenges. I was going to come and offer some thoughts on why, as one of those players (arguably) that these challenges were designed for, these challenges miss the mark. But I'm not going to waste time giving constructive criticism to a willfully deaf audience. So good luck I guess, hope you guys are happy with how this all turns out.
This simply isn't true. If I didn't care about player feedback I wouldn't be reading through 200+ post threads at 10pm. I'm not being defensive, I'm simply stating how we see these challenges and their place in the game.
We take feedback seriously and actually earlier today changed the design for an upcoming piece of content based on this feedback. However we aren't just going to roll over and acquiesce to everything that players tell us they want, because quite frankly this game wouldn't still exist if we did that. Our job is to find the right balance for the long-term health of the game, and I promise you that is what we all are trying to do.
I understand there need something for the very very top like those with the skills of like Brian grants. I don’t mind fintech noir do i mind karatemike challenge just know I won’t do them because my skills isn’t there I accept that’s as evidence the game becomes way complicated not that same game that 5 years ago. Happy there taking feedback seriously though I accept that my skills is around average yes wasn’t doing nerc items less getting the point you’re was right that’s nerco was ben doing items less but those there done it is msd lvl but it true u wouldn’t be awoken now u might actually be a sleeping now or close to
All kind of reminds me of how people after Dave on his iceman design for that boss rush all those years ago. Optional content, folks, in which the rewards, while they may not be whatever was looking for, they also will not substantially age. You’ll get the rank up resources you need easier as time goes by but seven star 2099 is still gonna be just as good.
It's sad to see Kabam employees sticking fingers into their ears with these incredibly defensive responses. It's evident from each of Miike, Crashed, and Jax's comments that they aren't interested in feedback from players about these challenges. I was going to come and offer some thoughts on why, as one of those players (arguably) that these challenges were designed for, these challenges miss the mark. But I'm not going to waste time giving constructive criticism to a willfully deaf audience. So good luck I guess, hope you guys are happy with how this all turns out.
This simply isn't true. If I didn't care about player feedback I wouldn't be reading through 200+ post threads at 10pm. I'm not being defensive, I'm simply stating how we see these challenges and their place in the game.
We take feedback seriously and actually earlier today changed the design for an upcoming piece of content based on this feedback. However we aren't just going to roll over and acquiesce to everything that players tell us they want, because quite frankly this game wouldn't still exist if we did that. Our job is to find the right balance for the long-term health of the game, and I promise you that is what we all are trying to do.
The trouble is, the community are starting to see through certain content and things now for what it really is, and put 2&2 together.
NERF revive farming, then begin to release impossible content (not impossible if you spend just a long drawn out. Slog, which then becomes revive spam, and not fun)
Most of The CCP are out of touch, waaaaaay out of touch with 90% of the community. You're talking members of top alliances who gain resources and mats way faster than anyone else and always have their units in the thousands, and they're the ones speaking for us..?? Not all of us have sponsors for huge openings etc they have massive advantages we don't have..
New champs being designed to give huge advantages in bgs and now buyable in bundles of you're valiant?? Talk about rich get richer.. community is getting sick and tired of the p2w gap tbh, dead sick and tired of it, and this has topped it
I keep on reading this thread and I have a question... One of the rewards for the challenges is a Selector, to acquire some of the champs needed for such challenges... Wouldn't it make sense to attach some mats at the same time?... I mean how many players really want to invest on some of the champs in the challenge?... We are talking about multiple and different Catalyst, a good ammount of gold and ISO just to do challenges... The investment is not just time, revives and other stuff.. is ranking up some champs that most likely will never ne used again...
You are welcome to discuss the challenges and have your thoughts on them, but I want to be very clear, attacking any one of our creators directly will not be tolerated. Nobody "betrayed the community" by doing exactly what was asked, to create extremely hard content.
We will not tolerate any form of personal attacks, and we will take action on your game account if we think that it is necessary.
So according to Kabam logic, is "extremely hard content" just a revive spam? Because I don't see how doing Gauntlet with just Zemo is skillful because of some defenders like Korg and Ham in there who will be the worst.
Dude, Zemo is actually a good Korg counter. He takes no thorns damage on basic hits. And he can also stop his evade, which is also good for Ham. Mike is actually the only one who designed a proper challenge. Almost all the fights can be soloed with one of the champs available for the challenge. But it requires skill and focus. Also some patience, since it's not something you can smash in 15min. But if you lack one or more, it will cost some revives. As any end-game challenge should. People asking "Can this be done with a 5* Zemo, or unduped 6* Zemo?", or anything along those lines, you have no bussiness even looking at this challenges. You are not ready yet. Your roster is not ready. So your opinion is irrelevant. Lagacy's challenge is actually too easy, like Uncollected level easy. That's good, so nobody can cry out they can't get their deathless KG piece. But if you expected all of them to be like that, then you missed the point of these challenges. Fintech's, well what can I say... it looks horrible, both in choice of quest and choice of champions. I doubt even him will be able to do it without a few revives. But I get the idea behind it. It is meant to make even the top of top 1% of players hurt.
I haven't seen so much whinning on forums and chats in a long time. And it's from people who have no idea what they're talking about. It's both irritating and frustrating. Democracy is great and everything, but some people just shouldn't express an opinion if they haven't earned the experience. (These same people who thought it was a good idea to vote for 7* Colossus)
I keep on reading this thread and I have a question... One of the rewards for the challenges is a Selector, to acquire some of the champs needed for such challenges... Wouldn't it make sense to attach some mats at the same time?... I mean how many players really want to invest on some of the champs in the challenge?... We are talking about multiple and different Catalyst, a good ammount of gold and ISO just to do challenges... The investment is not just time, revives and other stuff.. is ranking up some champs that most likely will never ne used again...
The honest answer to that is probably that a player is inevitably going to get the rank up materials and they can choose whether to invest them in these challenges or not, but it’s not inevitable that a player will pull the necessary champions, and so a method of guaranteeing it is provided.
This is a lesson learned from things like the Revolution objective from Carina’s V2 that required a team of Gulk, Korg, and Thor Rags. Not just some of them, all of them. And this was back when Act 6 was still rarity gated, so you couldn’t just bring along a lower rarity champ to fulfill the criteria. People had to hunt for those champs for soooooo long. This is a nice step away from that.
I keep on reading this thread and I have a question... One of the rewards for the challenges is a Selector, to acquire some of the champs needed for such challenges... Wouldn't it make sense to attach some mats at the same time?... I mean how many players really want to invest on some of the champs in the challenge?... We are talking about multiple and different Catalyst, a good ammount of gold and ISO just to do challenges... The investment is not just time, revives and other stuff.. is ranking up some champs that most likely will never ne used again...
You have multiple seven star selectors of unique champs that are just sitting there waiting for you to target them when you are ready. Figure out which one you want, build the stash, and go after it on your own time. It’s permanent content. Champ will always have value. This is a unique opportunity but I don’t think we’ve ever seen seen before. The only way to those to assume that needs to be done immediately, which seems to be everyone’s impression. The only time that you would need to do it immediately is if there were things like rank up resources in there that will age badly.
Just consider this a stashed away targetable seven star that you can do whenever you finally have the right champs and right resource stash. I don’t even see the downside.
You are welcome to discuss the challenges and have your thoughts on them, but I want to be very clear, attacking any one of our creators directly will not be tolerated. Nobody "betrayed the community" by doing exactly what was asked, to create extremely hard content.
We will not tolerate any form of personal attacks, and we will take action on your game account if we think that it is necessary.
So according to Kabam logic, is "extremely hard content" just a revive spam? Because I don't see how doing Gauntlet with just Zemo is skillful because of some defenders like Korg and Ham in there who will be the worst.
Dude, Zemo is actually a good Korg counter. He takes no thorns damage on basic hits. And he can also stop his evade, which is also good for Ham. Mike designed a proper challenge. Almost all the fights can be soloed with one of the champs available for the challenge. But it requires skill and focus. Also some patience, since it's not something you can smash in 15min.
I haven't ever seen so much anger, dissatisfaction, hopelessness, spite and apathy on the forums. It could only mean one thing. Kabam, by having the gamma objective in WOW, has unknowingly opened up a green door somewhere in the battlerealm. The one below all begins to stir. Drawn to the Malice emanating from the battlerealm, he realizes he is no longer trapped in the below place. He needs a new host. The summoners power is calling to him. He is coming....
Meanwhile in another secret location in the battlerealm, Deadpool is in the middle of writing a strongly worded letter to Kabam. How dare they treat his friends the summoners this way. Turning his month of love and affection into a winter of woe and... sensing something else is wrong he breaks the fourth walk and sees the paragraph above. "Aww hell no!! No more plot points or side stories in MY month!! Kabam has barely featured me! That's it I'm sick of this sh... stuff. I'm going to straight to kabams HQ and" (Unfortunately this part had to be edited out). What will deadpool do? Will he get kabam to open up featured store for him? Another arena? Write all the summoners a heart felt letter? Will his approach of getting kabam to send all the summoners awesome free gifts in exchange for preferential, boarding on gentle, possibly even lover like treatment actually work? Stay tuned!!!
It's sad to see Kabam employees sticking fingers into their ears with these incredibly defensive responses. It's evident from each of Miike, Crashed, and Jax's comments that they aren't interested in feedback from players about these challenges. I was going to come and offer some thoughts on why, as one of those players (arguably) that these challenges were designed for, these challenges miss the mark. But I'm not going to waste time giving constructive criticism to a willfully deaf audience. So good luck I guess, hope you guys are happy with how this all turns out.
This simply isn't true. If I didn't care about player feedback I wouldn't be reading through 200+ post threads at 10pm. I'm not being defensive, I'm simply stating how we see these challenges and their place in the game.
We take feedback seriously and actually earlier today changed the design for an upcoming piece of content based on this feedback. However we aren't just going to roll over and acquiesce to everything that players tell us they want, because quite frankly this game wouldn't still exist if we did that. Our job is to find the right balance for the long-term health of the game, and I promise you that is what we all are trying to do.
I understand there need something for the very very top like those with the skills of like Brian grants.
I think you meant to say people like MSD, BeroMan, or Fintech himself. For all intents and purposes, I don't believe Brian is the "very, very top" of players or the best in any capacity. His whole novelty is that he is strictly FTP and is a likeable person on stream and has a large viewer base up there with the likes of Seatin.
I'm approaching this like I have with most of the Carina challenges, I've looked at them, decided which ones I have the skill to do, and skipping those ones that I don't. No big deal.
I think it's cool that players were able to help design a piece of in game content, and I hope that will happen again. Am I surprised that an insanely talented player like Fintech designed something super hard? No. Same with Karatemike- the dude is THE Zemo expert, of course he'll have a challenge that asks you to play zemo the way that he can, if you do you might appreciate zemo the way that he does. Lags challenge was super doable, a little tricky, but doable.
I get the frustration from a series if super difficult content in the game. I tried a bunch to have success in WoW and didn't. Black screens in incursions and EQ were terrible. It's a lot all at once. But this game is supposed to be fun. If you're not having fun, then move on and do something else. It's not worth just raging. It's just a game.
I would absolutely settle for the team to simply add a note to the release of everest content "We designed this with xx revives in mind for the average player, or, we only expect a XX% completion rate in its first 3 months of release" so at the very least, we can decide which side of average we are and make the decision on whether XXXX units is worth the spend.
I suppose though, the forums would be flooded with people talking about how good they are but couldn't get it done and were sucked into the quest based on the feedback that they could do it.
I don't expect to be able do everything and the things I do would probably put me on the wrong side of 50% anyway but clarity is the thing missing that causes the most angst.
I don't love arena but its the only way a scrub like me can get anything done.
I keep on reading this thread and I have a question... One of the rewards for the challenges is a Selector, to acquire some of the champs needed for such challenges... Wouldn't it make sense to attach some mats at the same time?... I mean how many players really want to invest on some of the champs in the challenge?... We are talking about multiple and different Catalyst, a good ammount of gold and ISO just to do challenges... The investment is not just time, revives and other stuff.. is ranking up some champs that most likely will never ne used again...
You have multiple seven star selectors of unique champs that are just sitting there waiting for you to target them when you are ready. Figure out which one you want, build the stash, and go after it on your own time. It’s permanent content. Champ will always have value. This is a unique opportunity but I don’t think we’ve ever seen seen before. The only way to those to assume that needs to be done immediately, which seems to be everyone’s impression. The only time that you would need to do it immediately is if there were things like rank up resources in there that will age badly.
Just consider this a stashed away targetable seven star that you can do whenever you finally have the right champs and right resource stash. I don’t even see the downside.
I have all of the champs required, which cheapes the reward for each challenge individually... I dont see myself ranking up and putting sigs on BW for example unless i have a r4 gem just collecting dust somewhere...
If anything, I think we're all getting a little burned out by the endgame content being too difficult for the average player with rewards not being worth the time and frustration.
Endgame content is not targeted to the average player upon release.
Lagacy's challenges are without question the easiest ones *today* by a mile. However, his is rarity locked. It will always be as difficult as it is today. KMs and Fins are not rarity locked. They will get easier over time, both as people rank up the necessary champions and as higher ranks and rarities continue to be added to the game.
Sometimes end game content is also temporary content, intended to be rewarding for the players who managed to reach the end game at the time the content is released. But most end game content is permanent, and is there to challenge end game players when it is released, and then to become more accessible over time. KM and Fin's challenges are never going to become easy in any reasonable amount of time, but they will become easier, just like Act 6 is now far more accessible, just like the Abyss is far more accessible, and something like the Labyrinth isn't even particularly challenging anymore.
Even Lagacy's challenge is far outside the reach of the "average player" and it should be. It is probably doable by the average Paragon with significant potion usage, and doable by top 10% Paragons with minimal potion usage. But Mike's in my opinion targets top 5-10% Paragons and Valiants, and Fin's targets top 1% Paragons and Valiants. Both of those percentages will drop over time, but in my opinion those are not unreasonable targets to aim for when designing end game content, and the only reason for anyone outside of the very top tier players or players who enjoy high end challenges to target any of this content is the KG piece which only requires doing one of them. The easiest of them, Lagacy's challenges, targets an entirely reasonable strength level for a 7* Deathless champion.
I think we the playerbase need to learn to not just tolerate content that might not be our cup of tea, but actually start learning to rejoice that content keeps getting added that is not our cup of tea, because it means the game continues to aim at a wide range of players, and that is good for the long term health of the game. It means the developers actually *care* about the long term heatlh of the game, because they see a long term existing at all. The day everything looks like something designed for any one of us to enjoy that's the day we should start worrying, because it means the devs are no longer concerned about doing anything but appeasing a small pool of existing players. That's the day the devs stop thinking about the future, because the game has no future.
Content like this is not just about the tiny percentage of players who can do it today. It is about the future. Progressional games are about aspiration, and they target players who can handle not doing everything and aspiring to reach higher than what they can do today. It will take years for most players who pick up the game today to reach Act 8, to do Necropolis, to complete things like the Carina's challenges. Spending the money to add content like this says you expect the game to be around long enough for players to reach it, because there's not enough return on investment for that time if just a few content creators make videos doing it and a couple hundred players decide to do it for giggles.
Lmao I came back to see if there were any news on the Absorbing Man situation and found this instead. Kabam, respectfully, what the hell are you guys thinking? Do you want every single endgame player who doesn't no-life the game 24/7 to quit?
I read through the whole thread and i feel like i have to say a couple things.
First off i made sure every single fight in the Tigra/JP challenge would be soloable with the right strategy, mastery set up and boosts so calling it a cash grab or unit sink without even stopping to think how you should go about taking each fight is a bit unfair. I do not think doing the challenge itemless is possible due to some guaranteed damage you’ll take in a few fights but having to use potions here and there can hardly be considered a problem.
Now to respond to the comments about the difficulty level; i can’t speak for Lagacy or Karatemike but the difficulty of the challenges i created was 100% intentional and i was well aware the community would not react too kindly to it right off the bat. That said i do not regret the decision and i wouldn’t change it even now after all the comments i have received. The word ”challenge” has gone stale around the very top of the playerbase so i can only hope these will at least remind everyone what that word once meant.
As for how many revives it cost me on the submission runs? Less than your average players Necropolis completion path
I was watching one of your fellow content creators stream a couple days ago and (i'm paraphrasing here, watch the vid if you want the actual words) he actually indicated that from what he knows about you, your challenge might be a bit elitist. He wasn't wrong.
Content like this just shows the disconnect with the player base community and ccp and Kabam, Lagacy seem to have the average player in mind and seem to be creative with his challenge, I did use item but I had fun with it and that Kang fight was cool, I might be alone with this but I play games for fun I want to enjoy what I’m doing and the “ you don’t have to do it or it’s not for everyone “ mindset is sending the wrong message and also shows the disconnect, now if you’re going to force me to use champs I don’t care to rank to do a content adding an insensitive would’ve been cook for example if you use Thor gain an unstoppable when you dex or for every 15 hits on your combo meter gain a fury passive that way I feel rewarded for using these champs, i think it’s unfair to have the best players in game create content and say because they’re the best zemo or tigra player everyone else is at that level or care to be, now I don’t think it’s right to curse or disrespect anyone from the CCP at then end of the day there people with feelings and did a lot of good things but this right here is not Fun at all, I’m not asking for easy content I enjoy challenge example Lagacy 5 star starkly was fun , the grandmaster fight is fun , Nep wasn’t easy but I enjoyed it and the rewards were the best in game to date, sorry but im going to give this a hard pass, much love to Karate Mike and Fin however this ain’t it …
I remember when the grandmaster fight came out, that they made a specific thread which purpose it was to collect feedback why the community loves this fight.
Perhaps I am mistaken and it was the Gwenmaster fight - not sure anymore.
My point is: you asked us back then as community what we love (the right balance between difficulty and fun). Now we get this.
Something changed in between. Companies internal strategy must have changed somewhere between the feedback post and today. Makes me sad, I feel completely disconnected to the content.
Comments
The others more like 1-5ish %...
Sorry but I dont buy that this was strictly made with parameters of being challenging... More within the parameters of making 1 piece of Desthless KG achievable and the rest a revive fiesta...
Lagacy's challenge: Requires "a" specific champion who, being 5*, does not need many resources to have it at its maximum, including powders. It tests our ability and if we make a mistake we pay dearly in life matters. We face 12 fights of medium/low difficulty with 2 of the most fun bosses of the game "Kang" of high difficulty. In my point of view, perhaps it deserved a third mission to meet my expectation of difficulty of Carina's Challenges
The Fintech Challenge: Requires "3" specific champions, where you must have a minimum of R4 to reduce how long the fights can be. In Mojo, it is expensive in terms of resources, and on top of that you have to deal with 8 fights of high or extremely high difficulty. In the Tigra – JP case; also expensive; It is a longer route, 16 champions of high or extremely high difficulty, Tigra and his damage make the fights somewhat less frustrating except for the forced fights that are done with JP. All this apart from the fact that they are not exactly fun fights where even very skilled players die very easily, perhaps not only because of their mistakes in seeking an interception or risking a little to speed up the fight but also because the AI does not cooperate, such as , Modok, Penny and the most seen case warlock that is capable of killing you without touching you. In my point of view the mojo part would have been perfect if we could skip the warlock or modak, or at least one of both; and on the side of Tigra - JP, it becomes really extensive to the point that I did not want to complete it and I left it lying around in Dragonman even having Tigra in r4 x200 and JP of 6*: Besides, I really like playing with these 3 characters and I'm very good with them, I spent several resurrectors and many orbs.
The Karatemike challenge requires "6" specific champions, and with the exception of Zemo and Ironman, almost no one has them beyond R1, promoting them is a very large expense, with simple gameplay in the GMG mission where it is known for having highly combative fights. varied and very long that make them tedious and not very pleasant, from high to extremely high difficulty. In my opinion, this became much more frustrating to the point that despite seeing its creator pass it with relative ease, I accept that I am not the top legendary Zemo user like him to do it 100% having the zemo R5 myself, and On the Avengers side, analyzing the mission, it is well thought out so that these characters can do it, but it is excessively expensive, very expensive, and ultimately not fun to do it completely. Yes, I would like to use these Avengers against Thanos, but it is excessive. having to do the entire mission for this objective, perhaps 1 was enough to meet the expectation or at most 2 paths.
- farming wasn't nerfed
- WoW didn't cost 10 energy
- rewards were buffed to give an extra 2 titan crystals, some meaningful catalysts (4x t6c, 8 t3a, 8t6b), and 1.5 t4a
other than the spidey challenege, it's not worth the effort.
- 18 t6b
- 18 t3a
- 12 T5CC
- 30 T5 Basics
This is already pretty steep, not counting the gold requirements & prior rank materials. Most players will not being using any of these characters after this challenge aswell. Now let’s consider needing black widow at sig 200 for her AAR in the Grandmasters Gauntlet. That adds 1 to 199 6* signature stones needed to make a effective counter to some of the fights within GG. Now, speaking as a endgame player myself, the resources mentioned above are heavy, now you don’t have to do this content with all r4s, you could do it with all r3s. Yet it will be much more steep with cost & with the lack of revive farming available to balance this cost, the “investment vs outcome” comes into view yet again. Most endgame players reaction to this content that was designed around them is leaning on the “rather not worth it” line. As they weigh the scale of what has to be saved to accomplish these challenges overall.
I think the challenges were designed with good faith in mind, & the creativity behind them is great too since it reflects the content creators favorite champs. Yet I believe it misses the mark in the rewarding outcome regard. I think the targeted players in this regard are too small of a percent of the community to satisfy the majority of endgame players at large.
Overall, these are my thoughts on it, it’s getting late on my end as I type this. Might add more another day, might not. No hate to the creators, & here’s to a good rest of the year 💕
As it stands it is at best, the more skill the less revive/unit/money you need. The two need to equal a certain amount. So if completing all 6 takes 100 widgets. You could easily do it with 1 skill widget and 99 unit widgets.
I also will mention that if all the people who like to bash prof Hoff every time he is brought up, could have an option to remove fintechs and replace them with a prof Hoff design, the majority would.
We take feedback seriously and actually earlier today changed the design for an upcoming piece of content based on this feedback. However we aren't just going to acquiesce to everything that players tell us they want, because quite frankly this game wouldn't still exist if we did that. Our job is to find the right balance for the long-term health of the game, and I promise you that is what we all are trying to do.
NERF revive farming, then begin to release impossible content (not impossible if you spend just a long drawn out. Slog, which then becomes revive spam, and not fun)
Most of The CCP are out of touch, waaaaaay out of touch with 90% of the community. You're talking members of top alliances who gain resources and mats way faster than anyone else and always have their units in the thousands, and they're the ones speaking for us..?? Not all of us have sponsors for huge openings etc they have massive advantages we don't have..
New champs being designed to give huge advantages in bgs and now buyable in bundles of you're valiant?? Talk about rich get richer.. community is getting sick and tired of the p2w gap tbh, dead sick and tired of it, and this has topped it
One of the rewards for the challenges is a Selector, to acquire some of the champs needed for such challenges... Wouldn't it make sense to attach some mats at the same time?... I mean how many players really want to invest on some of the champs in the challenge?... We are talking about multiple and different Catalyst, a good ammount of gold and ISO just to do challenges... The investment is not just time, revives and other stuff.. is ranking up some champs that most likely will never ne used again...
Mike is actually the only one who designed a proper challenge. Almost all the fights can be soloed with one of the champs available for the challenge. But it requires skill and focus. Also some patience, since it's not something you can smash in 15min. But if you lack one or more, it will cost some revives. As any end-game challenge should.
People asking "Can this be done with a 5* Zemo, or unduped 6* Zemo?", or anything along those lines, you have no bussiness even looking at this challenges. You are not ready yet. Your roster is not ready. So your opinion is irrelevant.
Lagacy's challenge is actually too easy, like Uncollected level easy. That's good, so nobody can cry out they can't get their deathless KG piece. But if you expected all of them to be like that, then you missed the point of these challenges.
Fintech's, well what can I say... it looks horrible, both in choice of quest and choice of champions. I doubt even him will be able to do it without a few revives. But I get the idea behind it. It is meant to make even the top of top 1% of players hurt.
I haven't seen so much whinning on forums and chats in a long time. And it's from people who have no idea what they're talking about. It's both irritating and frustrating. Democracy is great and everything, but some people just shouldn't express an opinion if they haven't earned the experience. (These same people who thought it was a good idea to vote for 7* Colossus)
This is a lesson learned from things like the Revolution objective from Carina’s V2 that required a team of Gulk, Korg, and Thor Rags. Not just some of them, all of them. And this was back when Act 6 was still rarity gated, so you couldn’t just bring along a lower rarity champ to fulfill the criteria. People had to hunt for those champs for soooooo long. This is a nice step away from that.
Just consider this a stashed away targetable seven star that you can do whenever you finally have the right champs and right resource stash. I don’t even see the downside.
Meanwhile in another secret location in the battlerealm, Deadpool is in the middle of writing a strongly worded letter to Kabam. How dare they treat his friends the summoners this way. Turning his month of love and affection into a winter of woe and... sensing something else is wrong he breaks the fourth walk and sees the paragraph above. "Aww hell no!! No more plot points or side stories in MY month!! Kabam has barely featured me! That's it I'm sick of this sh... stuff. I'm going to straight to kabams HQ and" (Unfortunately this part had to be edited out). What will deadpool do? Will he get kabam to open up featured store for him? Another arena? Write all the summoners a heart felt letter? Will his approach of getting kabam to send all the summoners awesome free gifts in exchange for preferential, boarding on gentle, possibly even lover like treatment actually work? Stay tuned!!!
I think it's cool that players were able to help design a piece of in game content, and I hope that will happen again. Am I surprised that an insanely talented player like Fintech designed something super hard? No. Same with Karatemike- the dude is THE Zemo expert, of course he'll have a challenge that asks you to play zemo the way that he can, if you do you might appreciate zemo the way that he does. Lags challenge was super doable, a little tricky, but doable.
I get the frustration from a series if super difficult content in the game. I tried a bunch to have success in WoW and didn't. Black screens in incursions and EQ were terrible. It's a lot all at once. But this game is supposed to be fun. If you're not having fun, then move on and do something else. It's not worth just raging. It's just a game.
I suppose though, the forums would be flooded with people talking about how good they are but couldn't get it done and were sucked into the quest based on the feedback that they could do it.
I don't expect to be able do everything and the things I do would probably put me on the wrong side of 50% anyway but clarity is the thing missing that causes the most angst.
I don't love arena but its the only way a scrub like me can get anything done.
Perhaps I am mistaken and it was the Gwenmaster fight - not sure anymore.
My point is: you asked us back then as community what we love (the right balance between difficulty and fun). Now we get this.
Something changed in between. Companies internal strategy must have changed somewhere between the feedback post and today. Makes me sad, I feel completely disconnected to the content.